Topic: Pokemon Sword & Shield

@DarthNocturnal That's true, we don't know if they'll keep it. My hope is that they further improve it. Most notably ditching the level 100 requirement and instead just requiring full EV training first - and making the bottle cap items either easier to obtain, or ditching them entirely and just paying with BP or something like that.

No limited item shenanigans pls. Optimizing/training your Pokémon should be effective and consistently accessible. Gamefreak has a dumb habit of just locking things behinds even more RNG. It’s tedious and boring. I’m only okay with it for things such as shinies were it is entirely optional and has basically no objective impact on the quality and ability of your Pokémon.

Then please fill me in on what it is, because I feel like there are so many conflicting mechanics at play.

It definitely doesn't feel like my adventure since my agency is being stripped from me with lots of cutscenes, zero non-linearity, and zero moments where you aren't told exactly what to do next. The game doesn't really give me any reason to care about my "friendly rivals", the villain encounters are scripted events in the games progression, and the cover legendaries are mandatory to catch and part of the story. So I definitely don't ever feel like I'm playing as myself.

At the same time, I'm definitely not playing as another person. The game allows me to name my character and customize their look. The central objective I head out for is to "prove myself" by fighting all the gyms (not a very engaging motivation), and my character has pretty little backstory. I LOVE JRPGs. I love hearing about the stories and the characters they bring. And um...I hate to break it to you...but Pokemon isn't winning awards in any of those categories. Colosseum is the only game that has gotten close to doing this angle right.

The game wants me to care and love my Pokemon, but most of my Pokemon just waste their time sitting in a box. Furthermore, the game doesn't give me much juxtaposition of what NOT caring for my Pokemon looks like, so comparatively, the player doesn't really feel super special given that they are still fighting.

I think the only core aesthetics Pokemon actually completely reinforces as far as I can tell are the collection part, and the battle system itself. And now the DexGate is screwing with the former part too.

It even applies to some microscopic mechanics. Ignoring the battle system purpose of berries for a moment, they really make potions, antidotes, and especially the theoretically rare PP restoring items completely worthless by the point of a couple of gyms when you can just plant and harvest infinite berries.

If Pokemon wants to be all about a battle system, just make a battle simulator. I'd happily buy that.

I should really get around to replaying BW, it’s been a long time. Replayed BW2 recently but not the og ones for some reason

I'm pretty optimistic for this particular title. Watching all the trailers and footage makes me excited. The last Pokemon game I played was Ultra Sun and while it was fun I think it was lacking in some areas, still a good title though!
This is a neat occasion where we can have a main Pokemon game on a home console.
Coop looks very interesting too, can't wait to try it out!

@DarthNocturnal

I guess what I'm wondering what you think of the things I'm pointing out. Do they just not feel conflicting to you? Do they seem to work together to produce a particular experience? I'm interested in how you experience the series in a way different from me.

@Tsurii Yeah for anyone just playing the single player, you can easily ignore EVs, IVs, breeding, eggs moves, tutors, etc. Heck even natures really. Like sure, there is a ton of intricacies there but like you said, you really don't need them.

And if you want to get more into it, Pokemon is probably this most well documented game series around. Any info you want you can get very easily on sites like Serebii or Bulbapedia.

Yeah I don't really see why people get overwelmed by these mechanics.

Single player content can be enjoyed by anyone, you don't even need strategy or knowledge, eventually even your random zigzagoon can be trained up to defeat the entire elite four all by itself. (as a side personal story, the first time I beat Colosseum, my Umbreon ended up being level 100 simply because I sucked at double battles!)

And anyone interested in competitive elements has an almost unlimited number of resources online to plan and figure things out.

I’d say how the competitive aspects interacts with the overall message of Pokémon is probably my main gripe in that area. Pokémon teaches you to value and work hard with you Pokemon. That they carry value and with hard work you can basically accomplish whatever you know. In reality though that is not the case in the games. Your special starter is objectively worse than others of its same species and can never surpass those. No amount of training or love can change that. Meaning that Pokémon becomes a game of mass breeding for a single optimal Pokémon while the others are objectively worse than that one. I can train a little Slurpuff I caught and love it and care for it but it will never be better than the one I bred.

Then again, that’s a necessary separation. Playing for the story and loving your partners is great and fun, but competitive gameplay is a different beast. These random values and mechanics ensure the single player experience is interesting and unique for the casual player, it keeps each adventure slightly unique from each other.

If you’re interested in competitive play, there’s no need for that sentimental attachment, these are randomly generated bundles of data, not real animals. You’re manipulating the numbers in an effort to achieve an specific end result. Once you start breeding and mix-maxing your Pokémon, you’re actually playing a different game, separate from the main adventure.

I’d advise you to keep both separate, if you wish to enjoy the entire package.

I’d argue that separation between the two really isn’t necessary regardless when it’s generally quite simple to fix and Gamefreak has been generally doing so in the past couple of games. The Super Training (whatever it was in SM) allowed you to change your Pokémon’s IVs somewhat and in Let’s Go you could change their Nature. That is simple stuff. Sure they’re just numbers in a video game but Pokémon has always pushed a message to value them and such.

If they want to keep the playthroughs unique then just do what they’ve always done when it comes to the more competitive aspects and save it for the post game.

You know what...this actually fairly accurately sums up my own feelings about the past couple of generations.

Gamefreak would ‘win’ by writing stories that lead to thought and genuine discussion over its narrative. No story will appeal to everyone nor will it be liked by all. That’s just natural, but a story that can lead to development, questioning and/or creates memorable and cohesive worlds has succeeded in some extent. Even if one does not like the overall narrative there is at least a sense of appreciation or discussion to be found in it.

If it’s handled well that is and in most cases, Pokémon does not or only touches upon things superficially.

@-Green- From what I can tell there's a Smash-like divide with Pokemon. Competitive community wants the single player campaign finished as soon as possible so they can get to the competitive side of things, it doesn't matter how good the story is they'll want it over and done with as fast as possible.

The comparison with Smash is of course about Smash Wii U's almost everything unlocked from the start vs. Smash Ultimate's only start with the starting roster of Smash 64 (8 fighters) and no quick way to unlock everyone.

That’s not what I’m talking about, however. I was referring to how sometimes people get this idea that writers shouldn’t try with their stories because some people may hate or not like it. That’s just how all things work.

@DarthNocturnal
Thanks for explaining! I agree with you that most advancements are in the battle system, but I don't think that should ever be an excuse for any RPG that bothers to have overworld exploration, because that's part of the gameplay too. If the only thing a franchise bothers to build on is a battle system, then that's the only thing that they should be selling. I'd happily pay for something like a fleshed out version of Pokemon Showdown.

@Tsurii A lot of rom hacks I have played would change cut to a grass type move and flash into a damage dealing electric move and I always really liked that. Moves like surf, strength and fly were always pretty useful in-game moves. And Rock Climb was even sometimes decent in competitive play. Specifically Tauros with Sheer Force plus Rock Climb. But HM moves in general were a relic. I understand why they did it initially, it was so you didn't delete a move and end up unable to get out of a certain area if the HM wasn't in your bag. But ever since the bag became infinite and TMs reusable, the need for HMs disappeared. Also the buff to defog in the recent games was awesome making it a move that gets rid of all hazards and reflect and light screen? Very nice! Can't tell you how annoyed I was with Let's Go when we had Stealth Rock but no way to get rid of it.

I never really understood why did they never make HM moves replaceable without the move deleter.

Like, rock smash got much more convenient when it became a normal (reusable) TM.

The part where the game won't let you release the last pokemon with a certain HM would've been just as easily resolved by simply checking if it's the last pokemon that can learn the move.

I prefer Pokemon can keep All the moves. Then we can dicide which moves we will use for Battle.

@Anti-Matter Have you heard the word balance? It is hard to balance Pokemon with 4-5 moves. Can you even imagine how hard would it be if Pokémon could use a list of 40-50 moves?