Forums

Topic: Metroid Prime 4: The Long(er) Wait

Posts 921 to 940 of 960

kkslider5552000

I'd be interested in a more dramatic remake, but I feel like people tend to prefer more one to one remakes. Especially considering how beloved the games are and also that they already fixed some issues in the Trilogy release already. The only exceptions seem to be really old games that are widely considered to have not aged well.

Though I am curious if FFVII Remake's success might change that.

Non-binary, demiguy, making LPs, still alive

Bioshock Infinite Let's Play!:
LeT's PlAy BIOSHOCK < Link to LP

Bolt_Strike

@kkslider5552000 I despise 1-to-1 remakes, they feel largely pointless. If you just want everything to be the same, why not just port the originals? Not a Final Fantasy fan so IDK exactly how different FFVII Remake is from the original, but I'd love it if remakes pushed the envelope a little more like that game supposedly is.

As far as the Prime games, here are some of the things I'd change:

Prime 1:
-More areas and content for Magmoor Caverns and Phazon Mines. Both of these areas are linear as hell and have little to do, Magmoor Caverns just feeling like pointless padding in between Chozo Ruins and Phendrana Drift and Phazon Mines suffering from what I'm calling Linear Late Game Area Syndrome that a lot of late game Metroid levels seem to have (where late game areas are linear gauntlets filled with enemies, seemingly to create a sense of difficulty, Maridia, and to a lesser degree Sanctuary Fortress and Pirate Homeworld seem to suffer from this as well). Any new powerups in the game should definitely go to those two areas to make them feel more mazelike and explorable instead of linear slogs. After later entries in the Prime games, some of the newer powerups introduced such as Seeker Missiles, Screw Attack, and the extra Grapple abilities from Prime 3 seem like natural additions, but any new ones would do. Perhaps they could also add a boss battle to Magmoor Caverns, like an Alpha Magmoor or whatever.
-A fast travel mechanic of some sort is a must, backtracking in Prime 1 is utterly painful. The worst part of the game is easily when you go to get the Boost Ball in Phendrana Drifts, then go all the way back to Tallon Overworld for the Space Jump Boots, then all the way back to Phendrana again for the Wave Beam. It's so tedious and time wasting, and this is a standard feature in a lot of exploration focused adventure games, so I expect it in any full remake (they might even be able to get away with adding it to a Prime Trilogy re-release, although I wouldn't expect it).
-Add in some of the other QoL improvements from Prime 2 and 3, such as allowing you to shoot while grappling and using the Boost Ball to boost away from Spider Ball tracks.

Prime 2:
-Add in the Dark Ridley fight they were originally planning. I know Ridley is kind of overused, but a battle against an Ing-possessed Ridley is just too good to pass up. Perhaps it plays out like this- after you get the Light Beam, you use it to reach the upper level of Central Mining Station, use the Vigilance Class Turrets to reach the area where the Beam Ammo Expansion was, but this time there's a portal to Battleground where you fight Dark Ridley. The Agon Temple Key could be moved elsewhere, like Ing Cache 4 (the Dark World version of the room leading to the elevator to Temple Grounds).
-Sanctuary Fortress doesn't suffer from Linear Late Game Area Syndrome as much as Phazon Mines, but Ing Hive definitely needs more to it. Aside from the Quadraxis fight and some temple keys, there is near zero reason to go there. I'm thinking maybe downgrade the Power Bomb Guardian to a regular Dark Sporb (it's really not much of a "boss battle" since you don't directly fight it, more of a puzzle while it interrupts you with Power Bombs), give you a different ability, and then you fight the Power Bomb Guardian in the Hive Gyro Chamber (the gyro itself would be hidden your first time and you would release it after getting the Power Bombs and could get the Hive Temple Key). The new Power Bomb Guardian could be a Darkling Rezbit.
-I know the Dark World is supposed to have less areas than the Light World, but did they have to cut the entire Splinter Hive section in the Dark World? Kind of irritating that there's a room in this section that you only visit via cutscene when the Ing steal all of your stuff but you can't actually explore it in game. They should add this section, connect it to Accursed Lake, and then move the Sky Temple Key from Accursed Lake to the dark world version of Hive Chamber A, in the area equivalent to where you fight the Dark Missile Trooper.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

DarthNocturnal

Meta Kraid was going to be a boss in the Phazon Mines, and was even modeled and textured. Maybe move him to Magmoor? Or add him to any revised Phazon Mine plans. Either could work, although I lean towards Magmoor, since the Mines have Omega Pirate already.

They did plan to add Screw Attack to 1... but in it's final form in 2, it's basically just a very situational Space Jump. Unless that changes, I wouldn't bother. Seeker Missles would be fun though.

I'd also be down for Dark Ridley in 2.

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

kkslider5552000

I think if I were to fix anything in Prime 1 (asking me to fix my favorite game, how dare you?)...where even here this is more to help newbies because its not an issue for me anymore, its absolutely the first trip through Phazon Mines. That's really up there for sudden difficult curves in Nintendo games. And maybe one or two sections with....I dunno, a quick morph ball warp in a couple of places. Probably for Magmoor and when you have to go back to the water area of Phendrana for late game items. They can figure out a lore explanation I'm sure!

That being said, did the Trilogy version make that giant room before the final boss not awful? I almost have to assume so, but I'm not sure.

Bolt_Strike wrote:

I despise 1-to-1 remakes, they feel largely pointless.

I don't hate them, I just usually don't have much interest in them and would prefer to save my cash for games I haven't played. It says something that all of the upcoming remakes I want to buy on Switch added online multiplayer, whereas I'll only get Link's Awakening (a remake of one of my favorite Zeldas) fairly cheaper than full price and when I'm not focused on other Nintendo games. And also that FFVIIR was what I wanted it to be by not being the same thing as the original and I was proven right for wanting it.

Non-binary, demiguy, making LPs, still alive

Bioshock Infinite Let's Play!:
LeT's PlAy BIOSHOCK < Link to LP

DarthNocturnal

The room with Fission Metroids? I just dropped Power Bombs and moved on. Took them out instantly.

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

kkslider5552000

DarthNocturnal wrote:

The room with Fission Metroids? I just dropped Power Bombs and moved on. Took them out instantly.

I realize that now but at the time...not fun. Also I don't think I had many Power bombs first time through, regardless.

Even if you do...um...don't introduce a unique enemy to be taken out in specific way with specific weapons if you can ignore the whole thing so easily. Either way, bad design choice.

Edited on by kkslider5552000

Non-binary, demiguy, making LPs, still alive

Bioshock Infinite Let's Play!:
LeT's PlAy BIOSHOCK < Link to LP

Bolt_Strike

DarthNocturnal wrote:

Meta Kraid was going to be a boss in the Phazon Mines, and was even modeled and textured. Maybe move him to Magmoor? Or add him to any revised Phazon Mine plans. Either could work, although I lean towards Magmoor, since the Mines have Omega Pirate already.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Kraid being in Prime 1's beta. Yeah, definitely put him in somewhere.

DarthNocturnal wrote:

They did plan to add Screw Attack to 1... but in it's final form in 2, it's basically just a very situational Space Jump. Unless that changes, I wouldn't bother. Seeker Missles would be fun though.

Well again, Screw Attack, Seeker Missiles, Grapple Lasso, and Grapple Voltage are just the first ones that come to mind for adding new powerups to 1 and 2 because they were added in later entries, they're probably not the most useful of powerups. Prime 4 might introduce new powerups that are better fits, but we'll have to wait and see on that.

kkslider5552000 wrote:

I think if I were to fix anything in Prime 1 (asking me to fix my favorite game, how dare you?)

The way I see it you're making your favorite game even better.

kkslider5552000 wrote:

where even here this is more to help newbies because its not an issue for me anymore, its absolutely the first trip through Phazon Mines. That's really up there for sudden difficult curves in Nintendo games.

Yup, like I said, Linear Late Game Area Syndrome to make it difficult, it really bothers me that they keep relying on that design philosophy because it ruins the sense of exploration that defines a Metroidvania. Phazon Mines is really the worst offender of this design philosophy, its design just boils down to two long, grueling trips through a linear gauntlets of rooms, the first to get the Power Bombs (with you quickly nabbing the Grapple Beam on the way back) and the second to fight the Omega Pirate. I would definitely break those up into 2 or 3 more missions. They should make the late game difficult with stronger enemies instead of linear gauntlets (Samus Returns' later game enemies and Sanctuary Fortress offer good examples on how to do this).

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

Grumblevolcano

If Prime 1 was to be remade I'd say the artifacts quest (same with the Sky Temple keys in Prime 2) at the end would need to be changed, GC in general had a fair amount of tedious end game padding like Wind Waker's Triforce quest of which the Triforce quest was so much better in Wind Waker HD. The base concept of solving clues to find the artifacts in Prime 1 and keys in Prime 2 were a good idea but the backtracking was very obnoxious at times.

Edited on by Grumblevolcano

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

I-U

@Bolt_Strike I felt like I did go on two more missions to get through the Phazon Mines, first to get the X-Ray Visor in the Tallon Overworld and then the Plasma Beam in Magmoor Caverns. With those two instances of backtracking, my progression through Phazon Mines never felt like a straight shot regardless of the actual design of the region. I actually think opening up Phazon Mines would make it worse as I like the momentum that its linear design has compared to regions like Chozo Ruins and Phendrana Drifts, which itself wouldn't be as interesting without the linear Phendrana Labs. The biggest problem to me with Phazon Mines is that it takes the player out of the flow of the area for two major upgrades and those gated areas within Phazon Mines are close together. The player returns with the X-Ray Visor only to have to turn back for the Plasma Beam probably less than 5 rooms later. I think that's my least favorite part of Metroid Prime besides the artifact hunt when I was a new player, which I would completely cut for a remake.

I would also move the Gravity Suit gate within the crashed frigate much closer to its entrance. Metroid Prime lets the player explore too deep into the wreckage without the proper equipment. That Energy Tank room is either halfway or slightly more than halfway through that crash. It was an effort getting there when I played through the game originally, unaware that I would need a brand new suit upgrade to explore there fully, and I wasn't happy about having to go back the way I came. The player basically just gets the Ice Beam, and I know I wanted to open and explore every Ice Beam door I came across. Tallon Overworld is much closer to the Ice Beam's location than Phendrana Drifts.

Edited on by I-U

"The secret to ultimate power lies in the Alimbic Cluster."

Bolt_Strike

@Grumblevolcano I think the main thing that they could do to improve the Artifact quest is just make all of the clues accessible from the start. Or at the very least, change the order that the clues are given, most notably swap the Artifact of Elder (whose clue is the third one you get but is one of the last ones you'll actually get due to needing the Plasma Beam) with the Artifact of Nature (whose clue you don't get until you've collected several, but is one of the first ones you can actually collect since you only need the Space Jump Boots). Other than that, most of the problems with the Artifact hunt can be addressed with the aforementioned addition of a fast travel system.

As for Prime 2, I don't have as much issue with the Sky Temple Key hunt, as you obtain the clues at the same time, most of them are obtained around the same time (when you get the Light Suit), and you'll have unlocked a fast travel mechanic by that time.

@I-U We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one then, because that is the exact opposite of what I want out of a Metroidvania. Metroidvania areas have been better to me when they're a mazelike network of paths like Chozo and Phendrana, when you criss-cross through various areas as you progress and unlock new abilities. It enhances the exploration that way by giving you multiple options and having you determine which one is the correct path to progress. Backtracking is also an important part of that since it forces you to think in terms of the entire game's map and think about how your new abilities can open up new sections of old areas. Having to go back to Tallon Overworld and Magmoor Caverns isn't the problem (although I do think going back to a new section right near the elevator to Phazon Mines almost defeats the purpose), the problem is there's not enough going on in Phazon Mines itself.

I do agree with you on the Gravity Suit in the Frigate though, I had that same problem my first time too.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

I-U

@Bolt_Strike I think I worded my take on the Phazon Mines wrong. I like its linear design as a contrast to the open design of regions like Chozo Ruins and Phendrana Drifts, same applies to Magmoor Caverns. I believe both designs are enjoyable and can co-exist.

On the artifact hunt cut, maybe give more significance to Meta Ridley's flyover at Phendrana Shorelines and add Space Pirate logs detailing his success in the retrieval of the Chozo Artifacts late in the game while the player explores the Phazon Mines. Samus could have a battle with Meta Ridley before the Artifact Temple penultimate fight within the Magmoor Caverns as he is acquiring the Artifact of Strength. I think it would be fitting too if Space Pirates start appearing within the Tallon Overworld after the Omega Pirate has fallen to signify that they are knocking upon the door of the Impact Crater. Samus's gunship could give her an alert notifying her that a safety measure had to be activated due to an increase in hostile activity near the landing site. She could find an Elite Pirate with four Flying Pirates at that site. If the player takes them out, they could then use the Command Visor to call back the gunship and once again use it to restore their energy, ammo and save progress.

"The secret to ultimate power lies in the Alimbic Cluster."

Bolt_Strike

@I-U That reminds me, one thing I liked about Metroid Prime is how some of the bosses reappeared as regular enemies later in the game, namely the Plated Beetle and the adult Sheegoth. I kind of wish we'd see more of this, it made the game more challenging and simultaneously showed just how far you've come when you could blow through them with stronger weapons. Most of them might not be as suitable, but there are a few options. More Elite Pirates and Cloaked Drones would be great (and can we make the Cloaked Drones scanable please?), perhaps spreading into areas other than Phazon Mines. They could have an Alpha Magmoor/whatever they would call a Magmoor boss show up later in the game as well. In Prime 2, Alpha Splinters, Alpha Sandiggers, and Alpha Bloggs could reappear in several areas. And while the Sub-Guardians themselves (the Ing that stole Samus' powerups) can't reappear, similar enemies could reappear later. Dark Sandiggers, Dark Alpha Sandiggers, Alpha Grenchlers, Dark Alpha Grenchlers, Dark Pillbugs, Dark Sporbs (again, as I mentioned earlier, I'd downgrade the Power Bomb Guardian and make a Darkling Rezbit in Hive Gyro Chamber the new Power Bomb Guardian), and Dark Rezbits could show up.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

I-U

@Bolt_Strike Do those enemies reappear in Echoes later in the game or are those ideas you would like to see done in a remake? I haven't played Echoes enough to be familiar with its late game in detail.

"The secret to ultimate power lies in the Alimbic Cluster."

Bolt_Strike

@I-U No, no bosses in Echoes reappear as regular enemies, Prime 1 is the only game where that happens and only with the Plated Beetle and adult Sheegoth. Those are ideas, and aside from the Alpha Splinters, Alpha Sandiggers, and Alpha Bloggs, none of those enemies actually exist in the game as is (there were plans to include Dark Sporbs, but they never made it into the final game), just as the Sub-Guardian bosses.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

Also this is a way that Prime 3 can get in on the action, and in fact there's a couple of bosses and missable enemies that seem like they're designed for later game abilities. The Defense Drone gave me a lot of trouble when I first fought it, but it probably wouldn't give me nearly as much trouble if I fought it with the Seeker Missiles. And how many enemies did we fight that had Phazite armor long before we got the Nova Beam?

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

WoomyNNYes

With the news that an open world Metroid was scrapped for Metroid Prime 3, it makes me wonder if Metroid Prime 4 may opt for third person format like Breath of the Wild/Splatoon. I rather liked Splatoon 2 as a shooter. Terrible ideal?

Retro Studios Scrapped An "Open-World" Idea For Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/10/retro-studios-scrap...

Edited on by WoomyNNYes

Extreme bicycle rider (<=click for great video<3)
'Tendo liker

kkslider5552000

WoomyNNYes wrote:

With the news that an open world Metroid was scrapped for Metroid Prime 3, it makes me wonder if Metroid Prime 4 may opt for third person format like Breath of the Wild/Splatoon. I rather liked Splatoon 2 as a shooter. Terrible ideal?

Retro Studios Scrapped An "Open-World" Idea For Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/10/retro-studios-scrap...

I mean, if I was bringing back a beloved series that started with one of the most critically acclaimed games of all time that is unique precisely because of its first person perspective...I'd keep it.

Non-binary, demiguy, making LPs, still alive

Bioshock Infinite Let's Play!:
LeT's PlAy BIOSHOCK < Link to LP

Varkster

Yeah, Prime 4 is taking its time which honestly is great news because it means Nintendo takes the game and its fans very seriously.

I have full trust in Nintendo that they will not dish out a disappointment after so many years like The Last Guardian or FFXV...

Varkster

Grumblevolcano

3 years ago today (January 25th 2019):

I wonder when we'll get an update on Prime 4.

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

MarioBrickLayer

@Grumblevolcano Wow! Time flies! I think it's 50/50 at best we hear anything this year... 0% chance of a release this year...

Could they do a splatoon 3 and announce it this year for next?

MarioBrickLayer

Please login or sign up to reply to this topic