Topic: Metroid Prime 4: Beyond

@JaxonH
Wow I didn’t know Prime 2 puts you so far back after being defeated by a boss. If the game comes out on Switch Online then I will probably set a save state before the boss fight so I don’t have to be set back so far in the event of being defeated.

@Retrodouche
I heard Prime 2 is the hardest one, at least in the trilogy. I guess if it does get too difficult I can always buy the Samus amiibo to get a health boost.

Its less about "putting you so far back", and simply that Prime 2 ( like almost every other Metroid game ) uses a strict save point system. If you die, it reverts to your prior save, which is. . . wherever that save point happened to be. Which typically is not 'right next to the boss room'. On occasion you hear whining and screaming from someone who played something like Metroid Prime Remastered, for hours, and then lost everything. . . because they never bothered to save. ( My sympathy being non-existent )

I believe Dread was the first game to add pre-boss temporary checkpoints.

There's usually a save room fairly close to the boss fights in the Prime games, so you shouldn't have to backtrack that much if you fail at one of them.

You can contrast that with the original Metroid, for the NES, which has no save points at all, and just dumps you right back in the starting room.

Prime 2 had notably harder boss fights.

Infact they had to nerf 2 of them in the wii/trilogy versions of the game because they were extremely frustrating or over powered.

Spider guardian for instance was made easier since flicking the wii remote up would make morph ball jump, this was a massive qol in an entirely morph ball only fight since often you'd have to wait for a bomb to jump while it was moving around. Boost guardian did too much damage and took too long considering the fight effectively had a permanent DoT effect with no light crystal at a point in the game where energy tanks weren't as available (unlike later fights that do something similar).

Prime 2 also has the whole "the air is dangerous" gimmick in the dark world so naturally it's going to 'feel' harder trying to explore around or fight while micromanaging your health. Health becomes a very concerning resource when you're down to 30 HP and then realize you have to change positions through the dark world without dying.

@Matt_Barber Sometimes, but not always. There's definitely a fair amount of bosses that are nowhere near a save point.

In Prime 1, Chozo Ruins' Save Stations aren't really well-placed for that purpose as they're not really near... any of the bosses you have to fight (and there's a whopping 4 of them) and you'll have to trudge back through multiple rooms if you die (the only saving grace here is that it's early game so you'll probably be less likely to die). In Phendrana if you die to the adult Sheegoth you'll have to do the entire temple section all over again. Not really a boss but also of note is the pretty brutal stretch in Phazon Mines to get the Power Bombs. Then if you die to Metroid Prime you have to redo almost the entirety of Impact Crater.

In Prime 2, the Bomb Guardian is somewhat far from the last Save Station (although like with Chozo Ruins, it's early in the game and you're less likely to struggle). The Alpha Blogg also has you redo a significant stretch of gameplay (made even worse because once you release the last lock in Hydrodynamo Station you can't return to the Save Station until you beat it). The Spider Guardian (which as @Araquanid mentioned is one of the hardest bosses in the trilogy, particularly if you're playing the OG GC version without the Spring Ball) is one of the more egregious and you can't return to a Save Station after first visiting Sanctuary Temple. And the Power Bomb Guardian is relatively far as well (and also in a relatively surprising spot, you're kind of thrust into the battle after entering Dark Aether with little to no warning).

Prime 3, I haven't played in a while so IDR them as well, but there's definitely some. There's a long stretch without Save Stations on Elysia, it's a long trek back from about midway through the area if you die against the Defense Drone and IIRC it doesn't really get any better until after Ghor. Gandrayda can also be quite punishing (I see on the map there's a branching path that has a Save Station but it's quite the detour and IDR if it's accessible before Gandrayda). And then Phaaze has a similar dynamic to Impact Crater, you do the whole thing in one go or you have to start over from the beginning.

So yeah I wouldn't say the older games are quite that forgiving. Sometimes they are, but there's definitely some bosses where the Save Station placement is a bit harsher. And some of these bosses aren't exactly easy (and even some of the "easier" bosses, I've died to them on my first playthrough and some Metroid newbies may similarly struggle with them before learning their tricks). Having Dread/Prime 4's Checkpoint system would've shaved off quite a bit of time from those first playthroughs in particular.

prime 3 didn't have save station issues cause the difficult bosses weren't really the hunters or mini-bosses but the leviathan bosses and you always had your ship for those encounters so you could save in the ship after entering the leviathans, run down the linear hallway to them, then fight.

The first leviathan boss particularly was an annoying and frustrating one, but besides that i don't think anything stands out as hard or overly punishing since hyper mode helps you melt them pretty quickly.

prime 2 just had a ton of cheese fights and yea save stations were kinda randomish in terms of locations, sanctuary fortress isn't the most trivial place to walk through since its full of spider ball tracks, obstacles, and difficult to ignore enemies. Prime 1 i dont remember it being too egregious cause the areas were small. Chozo ruins did have further-ish save stations but running through chozo ruins to flaahgra or hive mind was honestly trivial. Can't remember if omega pirate sucked to die on or not.

I just grabbed all the items in the game along with all the green energy crystals, so I should be able to get the 100% ending. I didn't get all the scans, but I don't think I'm going to be able to do so- since I think I missed a few one-time only spawns- and didn't know that the monsters before the green energy storms will end up being impossible to scan after the green energy storms. After this, I'm going to probably play Legends Z-A's DLC and then go into Prime 1 remastered.

@VoidofLight
I tend to always end up at 98-99% scans, but I've never been able to get 100% except in Prime 2.

I'm currently at 80% scanned but I suspect I missed something. Probably a 2nd phase of a boss I died on.

@Matt_Barber
Ya know, that's what I thought too, because the file sizes were so similar. But then I watched Digital Foundry and they gave the impression the textures were actually higher resolution, not just rendered at a higher resolution. But even if not, it makes no difference. It's the end result that matters, and they look way sharper on NSW2.

@Lazz
Hey, honored you'd take the time to watch the vid, but I'm too lazy for all that tbh lol 😆 Takes a lot of time and dedication for very little, if any payoff.

Better to just occasionally make a vid when you really have something to say. I recorded a few in the past to showcase things like a modchipped Switch OLED, and overclocking to output docked image on the handheld. I may yet make one to review the Switch Lite OLED. Cause stuff like that, virtually nobody is making content for. I couldn't find a single quality video on the Lite OLED. So it feels like it's more or less providing a service.

@Don Prime 2 was pretty rough when it first came out but I was 9 at the time. The original is a also little harder than the trilogy version. Didn't have any problems with it though when I replayed it couple of years ago. Prime 4 is much more forgiving with savestations/checkpoints

@JaxonH I'll have to watch your mod vids at some point - I've never gotten into modding, apart from doing some quick hacks on the Wii and SNES mini to allow homebrew and roms.

@Lazz
I did softmods for Wii and 3DS back in the day. Must have done at least half a dozen Wiis, and about 4 different 3DS units.

But NSW1, because all v2 systems, Lite and OLED models are patched to where you can't softmod, they require a hardmod. You can use a v1 Switch to softmod but... the battery sucks compared to newer models, and since you're gonna want to overclock to handle outputting that docked image on the handheld screen, you need all the battery you can get.

I don't have the skill to take systems apart and solder a chip (I have soldered but I wouldn't attempt the micro-soldering required to install a hardmod chip). Easier to go on Etsy, hire the services of someone who specializes in that and provides the chip included in their $100 fee, and just let them do everything for you. Ship it out, and 2 weeks later it's on your porch ready to go.

My vids just showcase the end result. Like, running Immortals Fenyx Rising on NSW OLED in 720p thanks to reversing the image to render docked, and overclocking to support that resolution and lock down framerate. Stuff like that.

I think it's settled. The art style and visual presentation of Metroid Prime 4 is officially my favorite of all time. I can't think of a single game with a better aesthetic presentation than this. There's some good ones out there, but I just don't think anything is topping Beyond.

IDK, I had a lot of trouble with the Defense Drone on my first playthrough and even now it's not the easiest boss (ironically it would be a lot easier if you fought it after you got the Seeker Missiles, but you never do). Gandrayda is also somewhat hard because she's super fast and hard to hit and it's somewhat of a marathon battle.

Nah, Omega Pirate was fine, there's a Save Station off the last big room before the boss arena. The hardest part of Phazon Mines is getting the Power Bombs. There's no Save Stations in between the entrance and the room where you get the Power Bombs and it's a long stretch littered with dozens of Pirate skirmishes and multiple battles against Elite Pirates. It's quite easy to get worn down by all of that and not make it to the end, so it's kind of a similar situation to Sanctuary Fortress.

I finished the game, and it felt kinda whelming. It just feels like this game goes from being good at the start to just being something that exists by the time you end up getting to the end. I didn't wait for this game for the amount of times others have, since I wasn't interested in Metroid when Prime 4 got revealed- but I feel like the people who are upset probably have the right to be upset. Especially when hearing about how long people have waited to finally see Sylux get proper use in the games after being teased for the longest while.. only for his character to end up being how it is at the end of Prime 4.

The strongest part of the game was definitely the Ice Belt, with the rest of the game just sort of feeling worse and worse after that point. The backtracking wasn't too bad, but it also wasn't the most fun I've ever had in a metroidvania really. I also feel like it was pretty much over-kill, given that you don't use a majority of the upgrade items you obtain. All of this is just to get an extra scene where they reveal that Sylux met Samus once, and how he angy because he wasn't allowed to do whatever he wanted to do- so he grabbed the metroids and upgraded his suit or something. The entire fight I just went "Who even are you? I don't know you." towards that, since he gave off the whole "YOU RUINED MY LIFE SAMUS!!" despite barely interacting with him or knowing anything about him. Even reading his bio doesn't really fill in anything plot-wise. It just felt like he didn't belong in this game at all, and neither did the Metroids. Those being here made no sense to me- given that nothing pays off in terms of the narrative.

I've found that the critical trick there? Realizing that the "toxic gas" room has a safe zone right near the exit door. . . which allows you to snipe and farm the respawning enemies in it.

Spiderball has always been my favorite power up. And the psychic spiderball takes it to another level. Some of these tracks are insane, and the ability to grapple lasso in morphball mode off grapple nodes to slingshot into the air... my goodness. And here I thought spiderball couldn't get any more awesome.

Got all 3 elemental beam charge shots, and a super shot that uses like 15 ammo at once. It's time to backtrack and get those energy tanks and mech parts now, before wrapping up the final area.

There must be a point somewhere between ambient sounds and music where people decide which is which. However I guess the point is people were looking for better music in the overworld section to make that section more entertaining and not needing to buy a amiibo to get it, a proper orchestral score.

After looking at Switch 2 graphics again I'm not convinced there is anymore texture detail in its graphics but of course graphical features like HDR also add to the overall image quality. However even at this point I would say an emulated Switch 1 Metroid Prime 4 provides the best visual image quality just because its rendering at full 4K 60fps with no visual cheating. From what I understand the Switch 1 version on Switch 1 hardware is outputting docked at 720p-1080p with 900p being the most common resolution. It's a huge upgrade to bump that up to true 4K when emulated. The Switch 2 manages 1440p docked at 60fps but with a 4K hud. I think we need to be realistic about the Switch 2 performance level. It has roughly 3x the CPU performance of Switch 1 and about 5-6x the GPU performance of Switch 1 docked however we don't yet know Switch 2 GPU performance in portable mode, it has the potential for 1.2-1.3 Teraflops in portable mode but realistically probably well below that in order to achieve its current battery life. Probably sub 1 Teraflop. I'd estimate around 700-900 Gflops. The original Switch in portable mode was something like 40-200Gflops but the core real GPU performance i.e. where most games were at is probably around 70-140 Gflops so they could provide decent battery life. We won't know the true figure until the Switch 2 is hacked and we can see how much each game is using in power etc. We can roughly work it out though based on battery runtimes of various games, the mainly 10Nm chipset and a display panel with no overdrive enabled. My point is the Switch 2 is not strong hardware however its strong enough to provide a good game experience but not really push graphic limits. However I would argue that many of the graphic improvements of PS5 and PC etc are not really enhancing the games that much but still if graphic fidelity is important to you then emulated Switch 1 looks much better than Switch 2 I would say.

Examples of Battery Runtimes (Approximate):
Mario Kart World (High Settings): ~2 hours, 30 mins
Cyberpunk 2077 (Quality Mode): ~2 hours, 1 min
Fortnite (Medium Settings): ~2 hours, 13 mins
The Witcher 3 (Backwards Compatibility): ~2 hours, 55 mins
Tears of the Kingdom (Switch 2 Version): ~2 hours, 53 mins
Tears of the Kingdom (Switch 1 Version on Switch 2): ~4 hours, 36 mins
Super Mario Wonder: ~3 hours, 54 mins
Metroid Prime Remastered: ~4 hours, 50 mins (less than OLED, better than launch Switch)
Dave the Diver (Indie): 4-5+ hours

Youtube just suggested a new video to me which was true 1080p on original Switch 1 docked and true 720p in portable mode for the original Switch but of course at 30fps not 60fps and that isn't with overclocking. In theory I guess on a overclocked Switch 1 you can get 1080p and 60fps docked and 720p and 60fps portable maybe. Interesting that someone has created the mod so quickly. In the before section the docked performance at 60fps was switching between 900p and 800p thereabouts.

Emulating Prime 4 isn't "much better" than NSW2. It's just not. Search the reddit threads and you'll read all about the hitching and visual glitches and stuff like that, and I checked screenshots and ya it looks good but NSW2 just looks perfect and runs flawlessly. There's no advantage whatsoever, only drawbacks. Visually it does look good but it's not better and when you account for all the problems and drawbacks (lose all the controller options and hybrid advantage and perfect performance and flawless visual image without artifacts) it's not even worth it imo. There's just nothing to gain over the NSW2 version.

On an another forum someone called the games story and lore to be deep. I on the contrary found it to be very simple. The person wouldn't care to elaborate further and left me dumbfounded.

What are your thoughts about the lore and story?