Topic: Metroid Prime 4: Beyond

@JaxonH
MP4 is the best entry point for new players? I didn't have any problem starting from MP1 though. I'm kind of worried no asks for tips or anything for Prime 4. I makes me think the game is so easy you never get stuck?

@Cia You have NPC's tell you what to do, why would you get stuck?

I'm starting to not really know what I feel about Prime 4 now. I just got done with the entire Volcano area tonight, and I feel like I'm starting to lose favor with the game after the Ice Belt. I think this is where the actual backtracking part of the game comes into play- and I'm starting to realize how the areas don't really feel the greatest to go back through after you play through them once or so. Even though there's a lot of sealed off rooms or areas that you can't get to unless you have specific equipment to do so- the levels are more structured like dungeons from the Zelda series. A lot of long and extremely linear halls that make it feel like I'm not going through a maze, but rather just putting my brain on autopilot while I try to get to the small fraction of new content I originally missed out upon. It also doesn't help that there's no fast travel to these locations (which I wouldn't mind if the world was designed in a way that felt engaging). Instead you have to traverse over the endless expanses of nothingness in order to get to each and every location- weaving back and forth and to and from. After a while it becomes more of a chore, and it makes me really wish that the devs would have made it to where the locations were placed closer together.. or to where they got rid of the backtracking and made more new areas to explore for the first time.

I also don't think I really like how the NPC quest in the volcano was handled. There was a point where I became more frustrated because of how they were attempting yet another escort mission like the first one in Fury Greens- but this time they threw some of the hardest hitting enemies into the mix. It got to a point where I kept dying over and over again on the bridge leading into the control room with the turret- all because the Ai for the Sergeant was awful and he kept standing in the middle of the turret's firing range. I eventually got past it, but it still didn't change the fact that the Ai for the NPCs ended up handing me some extremely unnecessary deaths.

I think the final gripe I have so far is that the way they handle telling the story sucks a lot of the fun out of it for me. The game sells you on this mystery revolving around the planet and what happened to the people who once used to reside over it- only for it to tell you flat out in the form of statues. Maybe I'm used to Hollow Knight and how it uses the environment to tell it's story rather than outright stating it to you. Maybe Metroid Prime tends to spell out their stories a bit more- or the lore a bit more. However- this just feels like it isn't as engaging to me. It feels like I'm not really having to think all that much about what happened on this planet because the game flat out tells you through statues right outside of the larger story locations. The volcano has a whole statue that explains to the player that the green rain comes from inside of the factory- and why they did what they did.. rather than just letting you piece it together through looking at everything within the volcano. The Forge has a statue that explains more plot elements to you as well.

@Cia I think Prime 4 is the best entry for people who've never played the games before- but that's because it's ultimately frictionless. There's some moments where the game doesn't tell you where to go and has you figure things out- but for the most part you always have someone whispering in your ear and pointing you within a certain direction. It does an effective job at teaching the basics of the mechanics for the series though.

So far I think its very dissapointing, but I am just in the Fury green. So far its corridor after corridor, very lineair.

@VoidofLight
It's weird because, while I can't deny you are right, and I acknowledge that backtracking, it's easy to forget how mind numbing it was in previous entries. And I don't mean to say that to denigrate the prior trilogy- they're all 10's in my book despite that, and that's kinda how I feel about this one too.

Backtracking in Prime, walking tip to tail through 2 or 3 areas was, in all honesty, worse than Prime 4. The reason I say that is because I can literally drive across Sol Valley in 60 seconds. It absolutely does not take long at all to get from Flare Pool to Fury Green. Whereas in a previous game, it could take you 15 minutes.

There is one thing you said that I really agree with, and that is that they are more like Zelda dungeons, and I think that's a fine way to put it. But once you're in the area, they don't feel any different than the zones from previous games to me. And what's nice is, take Fury Green for example- as soon as you enter you can activate that fast travel cannon to shoot you through the air and land right outside base camp, or bypass it and go downstairs where you'll come out on the other end of Fury Green. Things like that make backtracking so much less tedious than in previous games.

Having said that, I never really minded the backtracking in previous games because I just loved the game so much. It could get dull, but I was having so much fun playing the game it just never bothered me much. But I am thankful for the backtracking taking less time than in the prior trilogy.

Furthermore, there's less need for voluntary backtracking. Unlike Prime 1, for example, they don't block off half the area in each map until later in the game. There are some blocked off areas you'll come back to but not nearly as much- mostly it's blocked off secrets. Whether that's good or bad, Idk, just an observation really. Blocking off more of the areas to come back to would, I suspect, just anger people like you who already take issue with backtracking. I don't think I'd mind it, but it's never really bothered me.

I've got three separate playthroughs going on right now lol.

My main run is on my NSW2. Then I have a separate run on my chipped NSW OLED, where I just got Viola, and a third run on my chipped custom Switch Lite OLED. I love the game so much, and the NSW1 version looks really good on a 6" OLED when rendering the docked image. Not as good as the NSW2 version mind you, even despite it being on an 8" screen, but there's something about having this game on a tiny little pocketable OLED device that causes my heart to flutter 😊

My NSW2 says I've been playing for 15 hours already (I'm sloooow and love to toy around in areas and just scan everything, extensively charting out Sol Valley and crunching into every last crystal I can find), and I've probably put in another 5 hours on my NSW OLED and NSW Lite OLED.

@Henmii I wouldn't call it disappointing. Don't jump on the hate wagon. The critisizm is valid though, imo but there is definitely fun to be had.

@JaxonH wait! You bought three copies? Why?

@SuperEndriu If it's a digital copy of the game it can run on two Switches at once if you tweak your virtual game card settings..

@FishyS oh... Didn't know...

@JaxonH Usually for me, I tend to like backtracking in these sorts of games. I loved doing it in the original Hollow Knight- and love it in Silksong as well. I think it's just the lack of the areas being wholly interconnected that makes it harder for me here- since part of the fun of backtracking in these games tends to be finding another route to one of the previous areas.

I just wanted to mention how much I appreciate all these level-headed comments and details on what people feel is and and is not working, such as those by @VoidofLight and @Araquanid . I'll still be getting it soon, but having a better idea of how linear, enemy-diversity-free, clunky, and unsuccessful a lot of the game seems to be, alongside some amazing art direction, is very helpful to know ahead of time.

@VoidofLight
I see.

I'm gonna be honest- I gave up on both Hollow Knight and Silksong because of the lack of save points, particularly before bosses or long, arduous stretches. And I kickstarted the games for Wii U over a decade ago.

But ya, I get your preference. I don't think I have one actually. I just go with the flow with whatever design is presented. Some are all interconnected like Prince of Persia Lost Crown (THE best 2D Metroidvania of all time- I'll die on this hill), Metroid Dread and Metroid Prime 1, or with a hub like Metroid Prime 2, Metroid Prime 3 and Metroid Prime 4. I like em all.

It's so sad we'll never see a Prince of Persia Lost Crown sequel from Ubisoft. Just like Trials Rising (also one of the best games I've ever played), we get a banger and they just abandon it. I am grateful Metroid will at least carry the torch, not just for 2D with a Dread sequel but for 3D also with an eventual Prime 5.

Technically the NSW OLED and Switch Lite OLED are chipped so I can play them in a server-free sandbox where they don't require an online check, but ya, even if they weren't, you can still play on as many systems as you want as long as it's not at the same time (due to the online check)

I believe you can play precisely two at the same time for people with normal Switches/2s. Though one of the two has to have an online check.

Had anyone taken the time to read all the logbook entries?

I find this game's depiction of the Galactic Federation Troopers fascinating. I've always wanted a deeper focus on the world and lore of the Galactic Federation- the way this game gives faces and personalities and makes you care about them is a bold a step forward for the franchise.

I appreciate the attempt made with Federation Force solely focusing on playing as Galactic Federation Troopers, but they had no personality. If that game had released on NSW2, with the graphics of Metroid Prime 4, featuring Myles McKenzy, Ezra Duke, Nora Armstrong and Reger Takabi as the playable characters to choose from, with proper dual analog aiming, I think it would have been a banger.

I want more of this going forward. I want to see new characters introduced, with actual names and distinct personalities. They don't have to feature a prominent role. They can do it like Prime 4 and just kind of build out the story in a way they get a little time in the spotlight.

What I especially like in this game about the GF troops is the new design for their armor suits. It's so much better than in Prime 3. And I like how the GF troops with names and personalities all have bespoke armor designs with various titles like Engineer, Corporal, Private, etc.

@FishyS
Right. That's what I meant. The primary doesn't need a check.

I think to some extent they've tried cleverly pushing/guiding the player into new objectives (without just placing markers etc ) like was done in Dread. I'm not sure it translates quite as well as it did in Dread, sometimes it feels a little too obvious, whereas Dread was, for the most part, a bit of a masterclass in spitting you out somewhere and feeling like you don't know what to do next, yet the design always meant you would be pretty much heading in the right direction. Myles radio'ing every so often and basically hinting exactly where to go isn't too subtle, but it could be much worse.

I can see the dev team tried to strike a balance at least, without going full hand-holdy mode.

Anyway I'm enjoying the game still. I'm currently in Ice Belt, and man, the atmosphere. Cold, desolate and kind of creepy... but I love it, especially juxtaposed to places like Fury Green, keeps things feeling fresh.

I can't see myself replaying this ever lol... my only regret was that it was a pre-order so I can't try returning it cause i genuinely can't see how this was worth my $80 for 14 hours of 1 time playthrough.

I could do multiple playthroughs of the prime trilogy and love it all the way through, this game has so much padding/dumb design decisions with its hub world I'd have to get payed to 100% hard difficulty.

The boss fights themselves (minus the one in the last area and final boss) were pretty well designed and fun, but there's 0 strategy to any of the enemy encounters when they're all the same since they carry over the same weaknesses and fighting patterns. Its so boring seeing the same enemy with a different texture over and over and over and pretending there was absolutely nothing else they could've filled that room with after the previous room already had them..

Thinking back on ice belt, the whole snow wolf bit which was seen in the trailer was just that.. a bit for the trailer and once you get past that section of just being circled for 5 minutes they just fill that area with the same enemies that appear in the lab (which are also borderline the only enemies bar like 1 room as an exception). I never seen those wolves again during the 100% attempt, like why did they take so long and swap development teams for this.. there's absolutely no reason not to just put them back in that room on revisits instead of turning the area into a population of 2 unique species.

Even when you go backtrack these areas to get new upgrades, you think you get some cool new discovery or something and the feeling of being super powerful obliterating everything... here not really cause the elementary weapons do not feel like they do anything (besides stun on ice) and still take way too many shots to kill on normal difficulty. The flare pool area late game does change a bit and its honestly the most well designed area for that reason but every other area there is absolutely nothing to experience when going back to them while the desert offers absolutely nothing besides collecting waaaaay too many crystals...

I will be genuinely dumbfounded if they don't patch the crystal requirements cause i spent 3 whole hours of my playthrough just driving through that place and picking up crystals... and i completed the game in 14 hours with a 97% completion (died during the 1 really stupidly annoying boss fight and didn't realize even with the checkpoint system you have to re-scan it.. final boss also took several attempts and i just didn't care enough to remember scanning it each time)

I really wish you at least felt a sense of progressive power...prime 1 the weapons were far stronger, prime 2 you were juggling between light and dark for their opposite's ammo and the two worlds created a type chart of sorts for them, corruption just made your default keep getting stronger and stronger so you went from smaller enemies taking a few hits to actually one shotting them which felt amazing while the hyper mode still gave her an insane power boost and had tons of uses... here I felt completely baited being told 'electricity is super effective against machines' cause it still took me carpel tunnel to kill them with it.. why is the parasite queen in prime 1 seemingly squishier than some of these robots..

Just to rant about that last area's boss;

@eldersnake
I said the exact same thing. Ice Belt is so atmospheric. You can almost feel the cold when playing. And it kinda reminded me of Aliens. It was constant tension. Just always had this feeling of something lurking around the corner. Flare Pool is really cool too in that regard. I won't spoil it, but you'll feel the tension as you explore and see things that make you go, "Uh oh... that's foreshadowing and it scares the heck out of me."

I agree with your assessment BTW. And I think it's exactly what Metroid Prime needed. Cause we saw the sales of Prime Remastered. Couldn't even crack 1.75 million. So as harsh as this sounds, it doesnt really matter what purists want anymore. This series needs new players to survive. And if that turns some away, well... so be it. The influx of new fans who will actually appreciate it without preconceived notions will far outnumber the ones who storm off. I desperately want to see more Prime games, and that's not going to happen with the current crop of fans, a certain segment of whom are premadonna purists. There's just not enough of them. So catering specifically to their every demand will essentially stagnate the series through their veto of anything new, and rejection of any attempts to drive the series beyond what it did decades ago. It will just result in another dead franchise, and then fans will fly off the handle about that anyways. So no matter what they're gonna have to deal with some very loud, very vocal, very unhappy people, only this way fans who love the game like me (and all the new fans) get the benefit of looking forward to another and the continuation of the series.

I found the radio to be a much more natural integration of the "?" destinations of prior games. Several times I found myself saying, "thank you Myles, I was just wondering where I should explore next". And crossing Sol Valley is so quick. 60-120 seconds to get to any zone on the map. And riding Vi-O-La is fun. Crystals are just something to engage your brain with as you cross to your destination. Honestly, it's far more enjoyable than flying to different worlds in Samus's ship, which took even longer and had no real interaction barring some Wiimotion gimmicks (they were cool at first but, eh...).

All things said and done, I'm far more glued to this game than I was with Prime 1 and 3. I still don't know if I like it more than Prime 2, but honestly it doesn't really matter where I end up ranking it. At the end of the day, what matters is I'm having a blast playing it.

@JaxonH Heh, you know 'Aliens' is exactly what came to my mind as well, and as an absolute sucker for that movie/universe, it's no wonder I vibe with Ice Belt.

I should note my Prime experience is really only Prime Remastered and a bit of Prime 2; I never played 3 at all, so while I've played plenty of the 2D Metroids, I don't have a lot of other Prime games to compare with other than Remastered (I was really hoping we'd have remasters of 2 and 3 by now, but alas..). I don't know which one I prefer yet between 1 Remastered and this game. But the first one was a 10/10 game for me.