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Topic: Super Mario 3D All-Stars

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NintendoByNature

@Ralizah haha exactly. Those and the bridge sections where its really hard to judge the depth at which you should jump. I beat the first 2 and I really just forced myself to finish them.

Edited on by NintendoByNature

NintendoByNature

Lindhardt

Does anyone have any tips for the Daredevil run in the Melty Molten Galaxy spire level?

Favorite Games:
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2. Portal 2
3. Hollow Knight
4. Fallout 4
5. Persona 4: Golden

App

@Lindhardt The best advice I can give you is "try not to die". It'll make the whole process a breeze

App

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ToadBrigade

@Lindhardt Just run. Don’t bother defeating any enemies or destroying the star bit crystals. I beat it first try just doing that.

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ToadBrigade

I have completed as much as possible in the first 5 courses in 64, and now I’m working on Shifting Sand Land. I am not looking forward to starting again today. It’s such a tedious game, even though it’s not usually that difficult. It’s just not very exciting to play and none of the courses seem that well-designed so far. There sure is a lot of walking around for a platformer. I legitimately can’t think of a real platforming challenge that I have encountered so far. I want to just move on to Sunshine, but I know I have to complete 64 now or I never will.

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StuTwo

Just beat Luigi’s purple coins yesterday. It took ages because I thought I needed to get every single coin and jumped off whenever one was permanently missed.

What a great level though! Challenging but completely fair. The camera even subtly moves to make certain long jumps easier.

Makes me wish that Galaxy 2 was on Switch...

StuTwo

Switch Friend Code: SW-6338-4534-2507

Ralizah

@ToadBrigade You'll regret the shade you threw at the early SM64 levels when you get to aggravating torture chambers like Tick Tock Clock and Rainbow Ride.

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NEStalgia

@Zeldafan79 Yeah, I mean it has charm. The feel, sound, look, mood environment is totally unique and it has a ton of really cool environments and ideas that are great. I see why people have a love for it. But I also see why they didn't bother porting it until now.....the game itself has a ton of truly broken or incompletely fleshed out ideas. It feels like playing a Steam Early Access beta of what could have been the best Mario ever. The camera is flat out broken, completely. The controls and physics don't work for those 2D areas at all....you work AROUND the game rather than playing the game. And the lack of checkpointing of lengthy areas is a stupid nightmare. Feed the yoshi, go into the 2D area, die at surprise mechanics over and over.....restart back in Delfino..... It's a very COOL game, that is also a very broken game in many areas. Plus it's an "all Miyamoto" design, which means Souls-like tough-as nails play. Koizumi Mario games (Odyssey, Galaxy, 3DW) go soft on you. Miyamoto Mario games (SMB1, LL, 2, 3, World, 64, Sunshine, Galaxy 2) torment you for his personal amusement with to-the-pixel jump precision requirements.

I share every last thought of hate on Crash though. I will never understand the appeal.....the game design is just horrible. Even by Naughty Dog standards. It's a platformer based entirely on not seeing where you're going and memorizing everything you can't see. The best Crash games were those PS2 ones made by another company, forget what they were called that were more side-scrollers. Those were fun.

NEStalgia

NEStalgia

@Ralizah IDK, I never thought of 64 as particularly difficult compared to some others. The slippery mechanics are annoying at first, but once you adapt to them they have their own flow and play style. Tick Tock can be annoying, absolutely, but never downright unfair because the mechanics just don't work at times like Sunshine. The camera, though is infuriating in 64 and broken in Sunshine (It only clips everything!)

NEStalgia

BlueOcean

I got the collection on Monday and I have 120 stars in Super Mario 64 and beat Bowser already. The game is as fun as ever, it's true that the new stick is not perfect for how Mario changes direction in this game (eight directions) but the reduced input lag compared to the Wii and Wii U versions make this a much better re-release that also looks crisper and runs smoother. The reduced input lag makes the wall kick as easy as originally intended and I beat Bowser without failing once in all three battles, something that I can't say about the Wii/Wii U version. In spite of the ancient camera and poly graphics and the annoying Tick Tock Clock/Rainbow Ride song, this game is much more fun and overall better than Odyssey, which tries a similar thing but with gimmicks and more boring gameplay.

Mario controls pretty well in Super Mario 64, swims, jumps and slides down perfectly with the correct timing. Flying is like Super Mario World in 3D which I like because it's a combination of freedom and challenge. Some moves have been downgraded in Super Mario Odyssey like climbing while shaking and you can do a triple jump and then jump ahead in the air in Super Mario 64 while in Odyssey the equivalent move involves not intuitive things with Cappy that, yes, I mastered while collecting every single moon.

The only level I don't like is Tiny-huge Island and in Tick Tock Clock it takes a while getting used to how the movement is mapped to the Switch stick. People don't understand why you get out of the course after getting a star, this only happens six times in each course because you can get the seventh star before getting any other one. Levels are compact and dense and they are supposed to be played in this style with branching paths. Each time you enter the same level what you learnt helps you make progress and eventually go to a different part of the stage. Super Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie and Super Mario Sunshine are the best 3D platformers ever.

Next one is Super Mario Sunshine, my favourite Mario 3D game.

BlueOcean

ToadBrigade

@Ralizah @NEStalgia as long as those levels are engaging in some way, I’ll be happy. Right now, I’m just trying to complete it as fast as possible, which is something that I have never wanted to do on my first play through of a Mario game.

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App

@StuTwo I thought I needed every one of the coins when I first played it as well! Not needing most coins made the whole thing much easier.

I agree. It’s a fun but challenging level. Something that Sunshine doesn’t have. All the hard levels aren’t that fun to play, outside of a few rare ones. That’s just my opinion.

Edited on by App

App

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BlueOcean

@NEStalgia I think that Koizumi (Tokyo's) Mario games are designed to be much easier and not punish the player, almost never. I would never say that the Galaxy games are bad, they feel like some kind of evolution of Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, developed by the same team, more action linear games than Super Mario 64 and Sunshine and the tiny planets don't do anything for me. Galaxy games are primarily action. Super Mario 3D Land and 3D World do their own thing too, more 2D than 3D. Super Mario Odyssey is the only time that they tried to do something like Miyamoto (Kyoto's) games but the result is more Breath of the Wild meets Mario, this is, walking simulators.

Edited on by BlueOcean

BlueOcean

Beaucine

It's been interesting reading all the responses to 64, mostly because others' experiences seem wildly different to my own.

For example, one of the things I appreciate about 64 is precisely how it mixes explorable environments with frequent platforming, especially if you're into inventing shortcuts, and double, triple, or wall jumping into higher points of a level. I'm almost never just "walking around" — which I did do a lot of in Odyssey, for example. Even early courses like Whomp's Fortress seem beautifully put together to me, a tight playground of little platforming challenges, with stars you can get in different ways. You can take the linear path or go nuts with riskier jumping exploits. Same with Cool, Cool Mountain. The only early course I'm not particularly into is Jolly Roger Bay. I know it's iconic, but there's not an awful lot to it beyond the ship. I actually prefer Dire, Dire Docks, the level it's always compared to, because the large hangar area has more fun platforming in it.

The only times I've had real trouble with the camera were the times I unintentionally broke the game, like long-jumping into the mushroom in Tall, Tall Mountain and completely ignoring the cannon, which is what you're supposed to use. But 64's "breakable" nature is part of what I love about it. It's very freeform, almost jazzy in the way it's put together. Last night, I did run into a legitimely terrible camera-related section, though: lining up your descent in Pyramid Puzzle. Ugh. Still, the sandfall gives you a reference point for the position of the platforms, which are on either sides of it, so it wasn't as terrible as it could've been.

Beaucine

App

I just finished Corona Mountain and beat Bowser. And my final verdict is a tricky one to make. It has its fun moments, and quirky style which I love, and yet just feels very unfinished.

In fact, that‘s the one word I can give this game. “Unfinished. In almost every way it lacks something great. No checkpoints, faulty controls, and impossibly unfair stages. It’s also fair to admit Sunshine has almost no original stages. It’s all either Secret Stages, red coin missions, or blue coin shines (which mind you, takes up almost half the shines. Others may like those levels but I sure don’t.)

But taking away those oddities, you have a clever story, amazing graphics, and intriguing areas. I also would like to point out how worlds like Gelato Beach, Noki Bay, and Sirena Beach aren’t just mindless collecting. There’s a fun little story behind them, something I rarely see in Mario games.

Overall, Sunshine has many odds. But, I can’t hate on them because Sunshine also does great things no other Mario game does. I think it’s fair to rate the game a healthy 7/10. Not as bad as I originally thought.

App

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ToadBrigade

BlueOcean wrote:

In spite of the ancient camera and poly graphics and the annoying Tick Tock Clock/Rainbow Ride song, this game is much more fun and overall better than Odyssey, which tries a similar thing but with gimmicks and more boring gameplay.

I would argue that the opposite is true. Odyssey makes the simple traversal of its much more creative and varied worlds just plain fun through Mario’s varied moveset of jumps and cap throws, along with the many captures that add even more variety. There are some insane leaps that you can accomplish in Odyssey that make it fun to just run around in. Areas like New Donk City are huge playgrounds for Mario to explore that are expertly crafted so that you can constantly find new things to do and ways to get around. In comparison, 64’s worlds are just barren and boring. In Odyssey you get such brilliant ideas like NDC or the Luncheon Kingdom, along with the most beautiful graphics of any Mario game. 64 just has the usual level types brought over from 2d Mario (desert, snow, lava, etc.). Mario’s captures aren’t gimmicks, they add so much variety to the gameplay that 64 simply doesn’t have. Anyway, those are just my opinions, and I can still respect it if you prefer 64, especially if you have some nostalgia for it (which I don’t). Besides, we all know that games like Odyssey and Sunshine wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for 64. So, maybe you just had to be there at the time to understand what makes 64 such a beloved game to so many.

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ToadBrigade

@Apportal when you say secret stages, you mean the Fludd-less areas, right? I don’t understand how those are unoriginal. They’re some of the most creative parts of the game.

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Ralizah

@NEStalgia I mean, people can learn to paint with their toes and use echolocation to see objects in their environments, too. The brain is an amazing, very adaptable organ. So, yeah, if you struggle with Mario 64's controls enough, you do eventually get used to them. Doesn't make them not terrible.

On that note, I've had next to no issues with Sunshine. The moveset/mechanics are delightful, and Mario feels very solid in general. The camera could probably stand to be improved a bit, but it's about 1000x less frustrating than the one in SM64.

Edited on by Ralizah

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BlueOcean

@ToadBrigade That was partly answered by @Beaucine. Nostalgia affects me in the beginning and in the ending of the game but not while I'm concentrated on the gameplay. It's more about learning and discovering different ways to progress. Cannons, wing cap, long jumps, triple jumps, wall kicks... The possibilities are huge in most courses. For instance, before I posted today, I got the 100th coin in Rainbow Ride after the carpet had left the house and I found some coins on a platform. The dialogue box don't pause the game so when I closed the window the carpet was gone. I got the star because the coins were on a platform. I jumped to the next platform and got inside the house, the carpet didn't come, once it disappears you have to start its ride again. After remembering this, I exited the house again and did a long jump that took me to a far away platform and, from there, I could jump onto the maze area, where I could get the red coins star that I already triggered while collecting coins earlier. In a nutshell, the fun of Super Mario 64 is not the nostalgia it brings to Nintendo 64 players but the way we have mastered the game thanks to how agile Mario is and how dense the worlds are. That is why Super Mario 64 is fun.

BlueOcean

Beaucine

@ToadBrigade

Odyssey has a lot of variety, but I found it fundamentally shallow. Your captures give you context-specific skills and moves, and in so doing substract from your regular moveset. This is fine for those who like it, but I prefer an experience where I have a limited moveset and can focus on mastering it, rather than a wider palette of unique skills that I only use for very specific applications. Traversal and movement are, of course, better in Odyssey, since it's refined to an impossible degree. But outside of Luncheon and New Donk City, which are excellent, I found the stages either too large or too small, and at any rate not hugely fun to experiment with. There's also the issue of glut: of missions, of moons, etc. And the fact that most of Odyssey's best platforming happens in what can only be described as an astral plane, which always looks the same no matter where you enter it from. I would've preferred those challenges to be found within the stages. Odyssey also lacks the easygoing and fluid transition between stages that you get in 64, where you're always jumping out and into the various courses, depending on your whim. Odyssey has more linear progression, at least at first, and even when you unlock everything and get into the extensive post-game, you still have to travel to each stage, which ends up encouraging discrete, lengthy stays. Point being, there are concrete reasons for preferring 64 over Odyssey, not just fond memories. Of which I have none: I hated 64 when I was a kid. I only spent like an hour with it, but still.

Edited on by Beaucine

Beaucine

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