Topic: Fire Emblem Engage for Nintendo Switch

@Ralizah
I think labeling plot and characters as thin only makes sense in the context of a comparison to Three Houses. It's definitely lighter than that, but compared to say, Awakening, there's far more story cutscenes and character dialog, enough that I'm wrapped up in the story wondering what's going to happen. Whereas Paper Mario and Advance Wars, Pikmin... that's on another level entirely. Like, this game has more story and better characters than 9 out of 10 games Nintendo releases, it's just that, compared to Three Houses its less. If Three Houses never existed nobody would likely bat an eye. In fact it probably would be praised for having a better story and characters than the 3DS era games.

All that said, remember this was designed as an celebratory game of the series. It's clear not only from the leak but the fact all games are represented in it, which is something you do as a one-off. It's kinda like if Nintendo released a new Zelda Four Swords, and people started criticizing it for not being like Breath of the Wild. That's just not what it's trying to be. Better to enjoy Four Swords for the kind of experience it offers, and BotW for the kind it offers.

Which is why I don't suspect this is the "new direction" of the series (though I'd be perfectly ok with that if it was, since it's not really a new direction at all but the old direction), I think it's a special release celebrating the series and you can't really build a game like Three Houses around a concept like that. But the 3DS structure fits it like a glove, so it makes sense that's why they designed it the way they did.

I do think future FE will follow this format to an extent, but with entirely new characters- this will be the only game with an all star cast. And without the Emblems, they'll put more of a focus back on story again, since I imagine integrating them into Engage took quite a bit of work.

@VoidofLight
Thats why Awakening garnered so many new fans. It was (relatively speaking) easy to jump into without being overbearing. I had never played a turn based game in my life save an hour of FFX on Vita, and had decided I didn't get the appeal. And yet I managed to get sucked in by Awakening. Engage feels like Awakening 2.0 but as a celebratory game with a who's who all-star cast spanning the series back 3 decades.

@JaxonH I wasn't actually criticizing it, wishing it was something it wasn't, and I certainly don't think this is indicative of what future games in the series will be like. I was simply observing that, narratively and tonally, it feels more like Nintendo's all-ages offerings than previous games in the series I've played. Even Awakening/Fates.

Maybe that impression will change as I get deeper into the game, but, so far, it feels more like a Legend of Zelda or Paper Mario plot where the story sequences exist mainly as charming connective tissue between different gameplay sections, and story progression is built around collecting objects that take the cast around the world.

Even the support conversations feel less meaningful than comparable skits often did in Awakening/Fates, because there's not really a strong sense of identity underlying much of this cast.

I don't think you can point to the inclusion of Emblems for the lack of a substantive plot, either. Maybe they become more integral to the game as it gets deeper in, but, so far, they're being used largely as interchangeable plot devices. You could easily have a plot focus and include that element if you developed it a bit, fleshed out the personalities of the Emblems, etc. They could have made something with this concept that was more along the lines of most previous entries in terms of tone, but instead opted for the approach that would allow a simplistic adventure-style narrative.

@Pizzamorg I feel like it's less that modern games are bloated, and more that older games, often due to memory limitations, tended to be underdeveloped in a number of ways. A game like Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade would be decently longer if it was remade today, even if it didn't really add much to the story, just because the experience would be more fleshed out than was possible for games on the GBA.

@VoidofLight I think it depends on what your expectations are going in (the strong focus on social interactions in Three Houses seems to have done a lot to expand interest in the series, which is reflected in its strong sales numbers), but, in general, it does feel a lot like this entry is going for more mainstream appeal. Which is a bit ironic, since Three Houses' mechanics and build options felt much more streamlined to me.

So after hours of struggling with the skirmishes (and mostly getting nowhere), I decided to return to the main story and...the difference is night and day. The main story missions are an absolute joke compared to the skirmishes --- it honestly feels like I'm playing on a completely different difficulty setting. I was, somewhat counterintuitively, even able to level up a few lower-level units as they finally managed to do decent damage and take a hit or two. I've looked elsewhere and apparently this is a reasonably common problem for people...I wonder if it's enough of a problem for them to patch it in the future, or whether it's just a bizarre design choice that they're happy to keep in the game. Either way, I think I'm avoiding skirmishes in the mean time for my own sanity.

@Ralizah I'm starting to appreciate the story and characters for what they are, despite my criticism earlier. Everything is a little more one-note compared to Three Houses, but I'd be lying if I said it doesn't all have it's own charm, and as JaxonH mentioned, it's a bit more fitting for a "celebratory" title to keep things a bit more simple.

I think I agree with @Pizzamorg about things being bloated though. This game seems to have so much fluff, particularly in the exploration sections. I find myself enjoying the game a lot more when I just ignore it. And now with the skirmishes kicking my ass compared to a relatively laid back main story, I wonder why I'm not just making a beeline through the main story.

You almost need to use the story to level up your worst Units and then take your best Units in to beat the Skirmishes, pure nonsense lol.

As someone who really started feeling the fatigue once I started doing missions back to back, I feel you definitely need something to break missions up, but the answer is not the Somniel or those pointless post battle walk around arena things or even the act of gutting all the customisation and control Three Houses offered you.

I guess one good thing Engage has done is given me so much extra appreciation for Midnight Suns. Midnight Suns has such a tightly structured loop, the game just flows so healthily. Three Houses had more coherent structure than Engage too, but I didn't like how every choice was at the expanse of another, maybe that is fun for some but it isn't for me. Engage at least made a change in that regard, that you can now do as much post battle stuff as you want. However, whereas there was tangible benefit of visiting the monastery, clear purpose for things like skirmishes and classes, everything outside of battle in Engage is unnecessary to a fault.

Part of that problem is Engage doesn't really have a clear loop, at least not to me. Each story mission doesn't unlock new things at the Somniel, or give you new equipment or injection of resources or whatever, this stuff is staggered with multiple chapter gaps between them. When this became obvious, I stopped going to the Somniel entirely basically as you really had no reason to go there until you say had a new Bond level or got to one of those story missions which unlocked a new injection of resources.

And even with those Bond convos, I only go to the Somniel because the game forces me to go there for some reason. Even though they are instanced cutscenes which don’t always take place at the Somniel anyway, so really should be accessible from anywhere. It was there I would take the time to polish some rings, top up on equipment etc. But honestly, I am kinda half glad you aren't expected to do this after every mission because this loop is so utterly boring.

I felt absolutely no loss in going long stretches without a visit, given the Support conversations are generally complete rubbish with these flat, one note, characters sharing single sentences of dialogue between themselves which add absolutely nothing to my experience, do nothing to enrich the characters or increase my attachment to them. If anything, I feel like a lot of time the Support convos alienate me from the characters, as almost all of them have a single hyper fixation which is either weird, creepy as all hell or just doesn't really fit with the general design and energy of the character. Like why is Panette obsessed with projecting prim and proper aesthetics while dressed as some sort of zombie doll? I have no idea.

Things like meals or the exercises or whatever offer such measly stat boosts, they can be skipped quite easily. Like I dunno. It feels like they thought they didn't have enough game, so on the last weekend they just bloated it with a load of artificial "content".

With like how half arsed the RPG elements are and everything else, I can't help but feel had Engage just been a linear, 20 hour or so, series of story missions with nothing else layered onto it, it would have been a way better game. Rather than giving me all these half cooked, half finished, mechanics spread far too thinly over a game that is far too long.

I'd been reading on GameFAQs about something called "Training", but I don't remember explicitly being told about it in game. I tried it out in game, and it works like this:

On the world map, a unit can appear over Firene, Brodia or Solm's capitals (I'm not sure about Elusia's), and when you engage, you start a training battle against the friendly kingdom. When a unit falls, they aren't lost for good, you gain experience and reduced SP, and can gather the spirits on the ground for free items, experience and bond fragments, as usual, and any surviving units get a flat 30 EXP at the end of the battle.
The battles are still fairly tricky (maybe it was because I was being more reckless, knowing my units were safe, even if they fell), but nothing too extreme.

Even better, after finishing a training session at Firene Castle, I was awarded 3000 gold, and was able to explore the map afterwards and gather a few bond fragments and metals. The metals would likely stack with your donation level in the region, although, to be honest, it'll take a long time to recoup my losses after the money I've poured in to Firene.

I understand the battles respawn after 24 hours, although if you're inclined to, you can manipulate your switch clock to respawn them yourself. When I tested it out, a training battled spawned over both Firene and Solm, so I'm not sure how many of these training battles appear each day.

Once again I agree with pretty much all of your post, but this really hits the nail on the head for me. It's quite jarring coming from Three Houses wherein it felt every action you made complemented another aspect of the game. And if something felt like a waste of time it was very easy to ignore it due to limited activity points.

@edhe I've only done a handful of the "training" missions but do find them somewhat useful for the reasons you describe. They're still pretty tough on my file, but made a lot easier by virtue of allowing your units to survive, and they seemingly have more forgiving enemy placement from my experience.

@Ralizah
I know you weren't. I was just sharing my thoughts on the matter since you brought the topic up.

And ya, that'll change. Just keep playing. . Yes they travel around the world, but that's only by happenstance of the Emblems. It gets good. If you're assessing based on first few chapters, you'll have the wrong idea. Get up to midgame. Not saying it suddenly becomes something it's not, but it gets good.

On the topic of skirmishes and paralogues. I went through the game without having played a single skirmish meanwhile for paralogues I generally played them when the recommended level matched or was lower than the current story chapter. Did leave Sigurd's one and a few others for the very end of the game but Genealogy maps look like they were created by Mario Maker players (cram as many enemies as possible into an area).

I'm really loving Timera. She's already one of my favorite characters. Also the wolf knight you get. She's so cool. Hate Pannette though. Her design isn't landing for me, and she's hard to keep alive.

Speaking of which, Chapter 13 was brutal trying to keep everyone alive while also visiting the houses. I had to reset twice, and on the 3rd try just used a rescue staff that was barely able to reach.

Chapter 13 Hard Classic separates the men from the boys, of that there is no doubt.

Rolled another S-rank ring, Nina S, with a skill that causes Excalibur to do an extra 20% damage on top of the stats. Also already rolled Seliph S which has stacking crit. I love those stacking skills. Ivy has speedtaker which stacks speed with each kill. So good.

@Grumblevolcano
😆 Ya some of those paralogs are a swift kick in the nads, or at least so I hear

Suddenly I'm drowning in support convos. They're all so weird, though. Last one was two minutes of one of my mages talking about pickles.

Mission accepted. I'm not far off from this anyway.

Lol I forgot who mentioned chapter 11 being tough and then having an epiphany. I made a mental note about it, and then completely forgot about it myself 🤣. Just Escape! I ended having 37 turns and we both took out every unit from my squad and their squad. It was down to alear and the big bad. Once I realized I couldn't actually damage this foe, my brain finally clicked and I scurried away haha.

@NintendoByNature
You must be playing on Casual. But if you lost nearly all your units, sounds like it's a perfect fit (granted, had you just tried to escape it would have been much easier).

@Ralizah
This game has some really good supports, but most of them are locked behind B and A tier. The C-tier kind of sets the stage. Though I did enjoy almost all of Framme's C-tier supports. She's a gem. Especially with Vander and Clanne.

A lot of them are silly and remind me of Awakening when Lucina's daughter was using Falchion to cut fruit 😀

You're gonna get tested in Chapters 10 and 11. Chapter 12 was... not too hard imo. But then Chapter 13 hit even harder than 10-11. I suppose it might have been easier had I just retreated and left the village visit alone, but I can't help myself. I needed that sweet Seraph Robe. Also got Elwind from one of the mages in that Chapter, which can be upgraded to Excalibur, which I need for my new S-rank Nina ring to do 20% extra damage. Otherwise you don't get Excalibur until Chapters 20-21. So that was a clutch drop.

What Chapter are you on, anyways?

@NintendoByNature Wow, that's extreme! Personally I tried to at least fight off the bad guy's minions while escaping but on Classic even that was setting me up for a loss. Next time I see the word "escape" I need to forget about defending and, ya'know, escape...

@Buizel even just moving beyond the main story chapters, I've noticed that it's best to immediately go for the objective rather than kill all the enemies. Some of the paralogues I've played are that way. I think having so many "Route the Enemy" maps in previous games is something that's really conditioned us to think a certain way.

It is how I play as well. I dunno if there is a limit, I have never tested it, but the game loves to absolutely flood you with Units. Like ants with hydrogen bomb punches just flooding every turn. Seems to be absolutely no value in methodically working my way up a map and claiming it, as you can't really control or lock down arears, so you are best to absolutely grab the seat of your pants and rush the objective for the best outcome. That is why I couldn't imagine playing this on Classic, it just seems like it would make so many tough objectives needlessly frustrating if you want to keep everyone alive.

@Pizzamorg I can't imagine it either. Maybe if you played it by rushing through the game, but not by seeing and doing everything.

Ok I am starting to get the hang of this. Since I am playing on Normal I'm just farming skirmishes now that I know they are based on real time (or changing your clock on the switch ) but since I only have bite sized time to play it works out. I knock out the skirmishes in the morning before work, take out a few more during lunch and then get another set in after work. Michiah is perfect for XP/SP farming with great sacrifice, Just stick that unit in the corner of the map and have at it. And Tiki helps stat growth so I toss her on my crap units and let them fight a bit. (Vander is starting to not suck/be outclassed). I still prefer 3H's gameplay loop and story but now that I have a good grind loop then I'm good to go. Throwing my luck boosters at Anna to farm money kills now that she is decently strong. My hope is to eventually get her so OP that I can send her on a one child army gold harvest. (I'd likely bench her for other maps at that point/use her for tempest trials to farm orbs). It does mean its going to take me way longer than planned to beat it but the game is fun for me now. Plus by the time I'm ready to move on I will have the rest of the DLC unlocked (or at least half of it) by Nintendo. Didn't realize S rings have skills as well. Ok yeah I was not playing this correctly when I first started...the systems are starting to mesh for me and I'm starting to see where IS is going with this.

Does anybody know on the escape chapter (chapter 11?) if you can actually beat everything on the map? I know you aren't supposed to but I'm wondering if I can get some drops from the four generals.

@Ryu_Niiyama
Maybe on Casual? Certainly not on Classic. But even then you're not gonna take out the 4 Hounds or Veil. I killed the enemies with loot drops and that was it.

Btw, only certain S rank rings have skills. Like 2 rings out of all the ones for each emblem get skills. So before you buy, save, then if you roll S-tier, Reload save and pick a new Emblem category. You'll still get S-tier on same roll, but it will be different. Can use that to your advantage to get one with a skill attached. Though I just got lucky with mine (except Nina- I rolled S-tier for Lucina's rings, then Reloaded and chose Lyn, got Nina with 20% extra damage with Excalibur skill).

@JaxonH @Buizel lol, it was definitely an oversight on my part. If anything, it all worked out since i leveled up a bunch of my units.

@NintendoByNature
You're a MadmanByNature and I love it 😀

I am so absorbed into the strategic combat of Engage. I've been a FE fan for a decade because it's always so fun, but it's never felt like peak strategy... until now. Well, I think Fates Conquest and Revelation offered some seriously good strategy with the multitude of options the pair-up and adjacent assist mechanics brought. But Engage takes it to another level with the chain guard, chain attacks, sub-classes and Engage mechanic.

Like, I just watched a video where they had 4 Backup units with a skill that allows them to chain attack from anywhere as long as the enemy is within their movement range, and it was nuts. I also saw a late game Maddening map where the enemy did the very same to the player! Extremely dangerous stuff. Not to be underestimated.

My mind is churning like a hamster on a wheel thinking of all the possible stratagems I could employ utilizing chain attacks with specific skills. Suddenly Canter is no longer the goal, at least for Backup units.

Also, some of those Bond Ring skills are sick. Claude = if HP is 100% grants range+1 with bows. Yo... with an upgraded longbow? Sniping fliers from 4 tiles away? Or Deirdre = Unit recovers 5HP each turn. That may not seem like a lot but that adds up, and paired with a Qi Adept that Chain Guards, that could ensure they stay topped up after a chain guard, since it only takes 20% HP. So as long as Framme has HP <= 27 (which my Framme does- she's only at 24 HP) that would top her up immediately. Even after she surpasses that HP though, top ups each round can be clutch.

There's also 2 skills that boost damage with any fire tome by 20%, and another for any thunder tome by 20%. Mine only boosts Excalibur by 20% rather than all wind tomes, but that's probably because it strikes a weakness for fliers. Then again, Thunder can strike from 3 tiles away so that would be incredibly useful.

Ahhhh, I'm never gonna get those S-rank rings. Too hard. Even with the exploit, you'd have to roll a character that's in the 1st or 6th line of the reference bond ring list as most S-rank rings with skills fall there.