Topic: Yoshi and the mysterious Book

@FishyS Difficulty for me also means depth. For example, Animal Crossing isn’t difficult per se, but it still requires effort, and that can be quite challenging for me. I don’t expect Yoshi to turn out like Silksong, and I hope it won’t be that kind of difficult. But as an adult, I do need something interesting in terms of depth in the game design and ideas. I mean quite challenging.

As others have said, Yoshi's Island's difficulty feels more in line with it being technically labeled as Super Mario World 2, which sets its expectations much differently than everything Yoshi since. I do think Woolly World is the best of the lot, and this just looks really different. It feels like a 2D platformer meets Pokemon in a way.

I also think it's important that while Yoshi games may be easy to complete, there's still a lot of technically impressive things. Some of yall forget how truly BAD the worst 2D platformers can be. If it doesn't feel good to control, it fails as a game. I don't think any of the Yoshi games fit that criteria.

@ElRoberico
Super Mario World 1 is an incredibly easy game.

What I find strange about this game so far,
is that in it's apparent difficulty and pacing it seems to be directed towards younger gamers,
but it isn't all that bright and vibrant compared to past Yoshi.
Even looks quite drab in places.

@Ultra128 I only make day one preorders if I'm really sure that what I'll get fits my expectations at least moderately. If you value difficulty to a great extent, then Yoshi may not be up to scratch, which doesn't mean it can be a beautiful game in other ways.

This doesn't actually tell us much more about this game, I still can't tell how much I'll like this game from this. The creature behavior mechanic is interesting, but is it enough to carry a game? I'm leaning towards no, it seems like it might be too dull by itself. They need to reveal more mechanics.

Also I'm seeing word of potentially $60 for this? I hope so, that would also help convince me because this doesn't look all that ambitious.

I suspect that was just a currency mixup. I saw that it would be be €60 digital/€70 physical in Euros. In the US they don't have separate physical and digital prices so it will probably just be $70.

I don't have high expectations unfortunately. The game looks amazing but that's true of...most Yoshi platformers arguably and I've yet to play a 2nd one that's better than decent tbh.

I assume there’s no hope this game will be as good as the SNES game Yoshi’s Island?

@FishyS Yeah I'm not seeing official confirmation and they really need to, it's very confusing seeing $59.99 and that price point potentially not applying to the U.S. but some other country that uses the dollar (Canada?). Either way, it might not even matter depending on what's in the full game because I don't even think I'd pay $60 for what we've seen so far, what we've seen feels pretty dull and shallow. Again we need to see if there's more to this game.

I mean, yeah, but that's true of nearly any game. But every other Yoshi platformer I'd put below Metroid Prime 4 so y'know, not ideal. (I'd make a joke that at least Yoshi doesn't have green crystals but apparently 100% Crafted World is comparatively miserable so...)

@kkslider5552000
Yeah that’s mostly true but there are some games where the sequel titles top the original for example Super Mario Bros. 3 and Pokemon Gold and Silver. I wish they would have the original team make a Yoshi game. I feel the Yoshi series has changed direction since the original towards young children as the target audience starting with Yoshi’s Story. I just hope this game will be better than Yoshi’s Story and Yoshi’s Crafted World.

confirmed that bolt would probably not make a good ethologist

I like the concept of experimenting with and learning about various enemies in order to platform, though I need to wait to see that its not meant just for young children before I make a purchasing decision.

I do have to wonder if there's an issue with the 2D platformer genre as a whole, if there's just nowhere else for the genre to go and they've reached the end of their evolution (and if the genre is just feeling more tired because it's one of the oldest genres in gaming). In terms of gameplay, how is this game really much different from Woolly World? Or even the SNES game? This almost feels like a concept that could've been done on the SNES, and certainly on the Wii U. What is the Switch 2 really doing to build on what a 2D platformer can be? I didn't even really see that on the Wii U either, and there's some very good examples of how the genre's felt largely stagnant. NSMB is the poster child of rehashy 2D platformers, but it goes further than that. Tropical Freeze really didn't do much of anything new for DK, most of its mechanics revolved around bringing things back from the original trilogy rather than doing anything never been done before (I mean playable Cranky is neat I guess, but hardly genre defining). Everyone praises Woolly World for being creative but is it? It mainly just feels like Kirby's Epic Yarn: Yoshi Edition. Kirby didn't get a main series game on Wii U, but outside of the Wii U in general it was also stuck in a rut until it went 3D with Forgotten Land. I think we really have to look at these feelings of "it's just okay like every other Yoshi game" and wonder if the problem isn't Yoshi, it's the genre as a whole.

Now 2D platformers aren't 100% washed. Mario Maker opened up some creativity by allowing gameplay mechanics to interact with each other in unusual ways. Wonder introduces a lot of wacky elements and can turn levels on their head. And we don't know everything about Mysterious Book yet, there could be more to this game that really shakes up the genre so it's too soon to write the game off. But given the track record, with the last time they strongly pushed 2D platformers and how Yoshi games have largely played the same since the very beginning, is it particularly likely that this game bucks the trend? I wouldn't be optimistic here. I strongly suspect this game will just fade into the indistinguishable mess of other 2D platformers.

@Bolt_Strike The focus Mysterious Book's innovation seems to be just figuring out the properties of enemies and using them to solve platforming challenges. If executed well, this could be quite interesting, though it could easily fail if done improperly. I feel like it's taking on the modern Zelda philosophy of having no one "correct" way to tackle a challenge. I doubt Mysterious Book will prove to be revolutionary, but I don't expect it to turn out to be just a run-of-the-mill 2D platformer.

Also, to say Kirby was "Stuck in a rut" until Forgotten Land is a bit of an odd take considering how well loved the 3DS titles (especially Planet Robobot) were.

Ehh, it doesn't really look as flexible as Zelda, it just seems to be treating the properties as a new form of collectible and documenting properties seems to be the main method of progression in the game (you explicitly need a certain number of them to unlock new chapters).

Robobot was a lone bright spot thanks to the robot theme and Robobot Armors, but in general the Kirby games from RtDL to Star Allies were largely pretty samey in both artstyle and mechanics and there was some fatigue with that style of gameplay around the time Star Allies dropped.

Not every game has to be a concept no previous console was capable of. I'd estimate the vast majority of games on all consoles are concepts that could have been done on prior hardware. Nothing wrong with wanting that, if that's what you're looking for, but Ghosts of Yotei PS5 is nothing different than Ghosts of Tsushima on PS4. Halo Infinite is nothing different than Halo 5.

New games are simply new experiences. Try a gameplay gimmick never used bedore. Design new levels and mechanics never experimented with before. Just provide a different experience. That's all a game needs to do. Either it's fun, or it's not fun.

And yes, kids need games too. They haven't played every single Yoshi game since the SNES. They don't care about the game doing some generational breakthrough never before possible. They just want a fun game.

And I'd argue that's true for most people, kids or not.

@UpsideDownRowlet
I generally dislike 2D Kirby games, but I really loved Planet Robobot.

I also generally dislike 2D Yoshi games, but really loved Wooly World. Mainly disliked Crafted World due to the 2D cursor in a 3D space that just felt awkward to throw eggs with.

Mysterious Book looks promising so far. Art style definitely a return to form and reminds me of the original SNES entry. Here's to hoping the game is good. It doesn't have Baby Mario... that's a plus. And it won't have that weird 2D-3D cursor like Crafted World, either. So I'm definitely optimistic.

@Bolt_Strike Fair enough. We really need to learn more about Yoshi before we can make any certain judgments about the precise nature of its gameplay and its quality.