Topic: Nintendo Switch 2

@skywake That's not ...entirely true? Pokémon Scarlet and Violet still shows as a Switch 1 game but was updated to utilise DLSS.

So unless that's something that can be done without recompilation, which may be possible, there may be more to this translation later than first thought

I do try a lot of different things, but nowadays there's just so much that it's virtually impossible to keep up with everything that's well regarded, there's just so many different things to play that generally folk will just stick to what they know they'll like - not everyone has the luxury of being able to commit the time or funds to explore everything they want to.

In the case of Bayonetta, I played the first one on Steam and honestly was pretty bored by the whole thing, so didn't have any desire to buy the sequels - I'm guessing most 3rd person action games are not for me though as I didn't really like Ninja Gaiden games either or stuff like Afro Samurai, although I did enjoy the old God of War games back in the day. For Xenoblade, again I played the first one and did actually enjoy it, but for some reason I've had no urge to want to play the sequels - maybe due to the length of time required to play or something else, who knows?

@dmcc0
I can’t get into the Xenoade stuff. I tried. They’re just so big and the creatures and stuff don’t really vibe with me.

Out of curiosity what do you mean by 'third person action game'? That seems to include Zelda, Donkey Kong, mega man, most metroidvanias and roguelikes, etc. Definitely one of the largest categories of games.

I tend to put games like Bayonetta in the much smaller category '3D action games with convoluted combat'

@rallydefault I can't quite put my finger on why I haven't felt the need to play the Xenoblade sequels. I quite liked XC:DE, but it obviously didn't wow me enough to go back for more.

I think the time it took me to complete it might factor in this - about 60hrs over quite a few months. That's probably one of the longest 'story' games I've played and I'd quite often have gaps where I'd not play for a few weeks and totally forget what was going on in the game. I just don't have he time to sink dozens of hours into a game anymore - at least not one where I have to follow a story.

@FishyS Yeah, maybe not the best description - poor choice of words 😅 I specifically meant 3D action games like those mentioned (Bayonetta etc), where the main focus is combat rather than say platforming, exploration or stealth etc. Just can't seem to vibe with many of them, even those that are well regarded.

@dmcc0 @OmnitronVariant
Ya I get that and do understand it, but there's plenty of games that perform better sales wise that aren't as good (imo). Bayonetta 2 and 3 and Wonderful 101 are some of the most fun games I've played (and Astral Chain). I get Xenoblade is a JRPG so I don't expect too much there. But Metroid is definitely undervalued.

@FishyS
Combat isn't actually convoluted- it's very much systematic and relies on specific combos, yet allows those who just want to mash buttons to do pretty well also (kinda like Hyrule Warriors Age of Imprisonment). The only thing is dodging to slow down time. But having so many different unique combos allow freedom of gameplay and prevents combat from feeling monotonous. You can pretty much just randomly press any sequence of Y and X 4 or 5 times, sometimes with a brief pause before the last one, and do a different combo. But those who practice can get really good and chain combos together and stuff like that.

1 TB micro SD express $169.99 at BestBuy online

1 TB mSD EX $169.99

And in case anyone was looking for a 512 GB instead, the $74.99 deal on Amazon is still up

512 GB mSD EX $74.99

Metroid and Advance Wars are struggling to sell because of cultural issues in Japan, Japanese gamers don't like shooty war games so those IPs sell well in the West but poorly in Japan. Xenoblade is a relatively new-ish IP and I'm not sure what the issue is other than that, it's possible its audience may grow over time. I personally tried it and don't like it because of the auto-battling system and it's unclear what I need to do to get good at the game, but I'm not sure macroeconomically if that's the issue or if there's some other reason. Bayonetta and Astral Chain might be a genre issue, they tend to come off as repetitive beat-em-ups that are hard to sell on varied and fun gameplay (also it might possibly be because Platinum worked on them and that might lead to the perception that they're not truly Nintendo games, even if it's not true in AC's case). Fire Emblem and Hyrule Warriors are also probably going to remain relatively low because of their genre, strategy games tend not to be very casual friendly so I'm not sure there's much opportunity for growth with those IPs.

EDIT: Also Nintendo Forecast posted a video going over Metroid's sales issues in more detail, worth a watch for anyone that doesn't understand how an IP this good sells this poorly:

Metroid in Japan never made much sense to me. I get that first person perspective isn't that popular there, but I'm personally not the biggest first person fan, yet Metroid Prime, DOOM and Wolfenstein are some of my all time faves. Every genre has its gems that really stand out head and shoulders above the rest. But it goes deeper than that, because even 2D Metroid games don't perform well there. Idk. They're just not into the genre it seems.

Which is even crazier to me because metroidvania is arguably my favorite genre. But I'm also very particular with my taste. Most games in the genre I don't gel with. But stuff like Metroid Prime and Dread, Prince of Persia Lost Crown and the Ori duology... muah! Chef's kiss. Prince of Persia Lost Crown is arguably one of my favorite games of all time. I'd even rank it above Metroid Dread, and that's saying something. I expect Prime 4 to top both of them but, even if not, it's still gonna be fantastic in the worst case scenario.

I get Hyrule Warriors becoming repetitive but Platinum Games titles expertly build up complexity and increase difficulty as you progress. They also have tons of bosses and a mind-boggling diversity in enemy types. And the combat is so in depth I never once felt bored in any of their games, which also don't extend beyond their welcome like some other games in the genre. By the time you've had your fill, the game is over.

But ya, pure action Platinum games seem like an accessible genre more ppl would be open to. But it seems there's only about a million people who really appreciate them. Which is enough to ensure they continue, at least.

Btw, I just learned Mega Man 1-5 Gameboy games are on NSO. Why wasn't I aware of this?!!

I imagine it's because it's broadly the same 1 - 3 million people that either have similar tastes and/or are willing to branch out more in terms of what they're willing to buy and play. It won't be 1 to 1, but I'd be shocked if those audiences didn't HEAVILY overlap. Everyone else is sticking to the actual system sellers like Pokemon, Mario Kart, Zelda, etc.

It's broadly the same with other systems, too. The interesting games are competing for the dollar of a small number of enthusiasts, whereas everyone else is playing F2P stuff and buying the occasional AAA mainstay like FIFA, Call of Duty, etc. Sometimes you get a more niche type of game that really breaks out from this trend and gains more mainstream awareness and success (Persona 5 and NieR: Automata both come to mind), but, by and large, games like those aren't going to be moving tens of millions of units.

Thankfully, since Nintendo developers don't inflate their budgets, I imagine they're usually able to make a tidy profit on a few million unit sales.

@JaxonH
Bayo 3 is a lot of fun. I like how they sometimes slowed the pace with the little puzzle sections and stuff, too. It was a good time. I agree that most people can beat it without needing to execute specific combos and stuff.

I own Astral Chain and put maybe like 5 hours into it before dropping it. Just wasn’t hitting for me. I like action games like that, but it’s almost like they put too much into the game to remember everything.

I’m playing the mega man games on my actual Gameboy right now, the first two at least. I beat both. The first is pretty tough but doable if you’re willing to learn the stages, the second is much easier but not as cool. I would imagine save states will make things much easier lol

@rallydefault
Astral Chain seemed a bit more divisive than other Platinum titles, and I must confess, it's the only Platinum Games title on Switch I haven't actually beaten. Bayonetta, Bayonetta 2, Bayonetta 3, Wonderful 101, Nier Automata... beat all of em. But it's not because I didn't like it, I think I just got sidetracked with Fire Emblem Three Houses.

But ya, Bayo3 is peak. I know some say they prefer Bayo2 (and maybe you do, too) but I liked it more. Of course, it's best now that I can display the docked image in handheld mode and overclock for stable 60fps, but even back when I played it, it was so good I just couldn't put it down til I finished it. Loved actually playing with a different character with different moves. And the exploration in that game was excellent. But even Wonderful 101, a flawed game, is so good I've beaten it twice

I eagerly await Ninja Gaiden 4 on NSW2, and am hoping we see Bayonetta 4 or Astral Chain 2, or something new entirely.

Mega Man 3 was my first game. I don't collect NES, but I have a mint CIB copy of MM3 displayed on my shelf. Never played the GB entries but I've been wanting to play MM5 on GameBoy for some time, just never knew how. Wasn't gonna mess with emulators. I was thrilled to learn all 5 GB entries are on NSO.

@Ralizah
I noticed that with Stellar Blade. It sold a bit more than Bayo but it also released on PC. Probably 1-1.5 million on PS which definitely falls into that 1-3 million niche so many games never climb out of. Once it releases on NSW2 I think it could do another million.

But ya, most gamers just focus on whatever is popular. Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Fortnite, FIFA, Madden, NBA 2K, etc. I'm glad there's a stable ecosystem on Nintendo platforms where the 1-3 million sellers can still be profitable as they don't have those massive mega budgets.

@JaxonH Bro, Stellar Blade is gonna slay on NS2. The PC port was SO well optimized. Runs brilliantly even on lower spec hardware like the Steam Deck. And you know Shift Up has to be salivating at the thought of hitting a potentially pretty lucrative new market on Switch 2, as it's no secret that niche games like this tend to do pretty well on Nintendo's platforms since the release of the Switch.

It went over three million units after the launch of the PC port, where it sold a million copies in three days. That Switch 2 port, plus sales down the road, will probably propel it into the 6+ million units lifetime range.

Metroidvanias and FPS games are both less popular in Japan, so it makes sense Metroid is in particular. Although I think Metroid Dread sold comparatively much better?

I have no idea why metroidvanias are less popular in Japan but having less of a cultural fascination with guns than e.g. the US and (probably, the studies have been a bit flawed) having a significantly larger amount of motion sickness per population are at least two reasons FPS games might be less popular in Japan. The second reason is why I personally avoid first person games; not wanting to vomit or have a horrible headache is a fairly valid reason not to do an optional leisure activity.

@OmnitronVariant
That doesn't really explain the core question though. It's not like a game like Bayonetta is a particularly obnoxious time sink compared to other often significantly more popular series. And as someone who doesn't really spend that much time gaming and doesn't really buy that many games I easily found time for Bayonetta and Astral Chain

And yes, I'm on these forums so almost by definition I'm above the median in terms of "game-time". But honestly, I usually buy something like one game every other month. A tad more this year. Usually a game will last me a few months because often I'm at most playing an hour or so every day after work and maybe a handful of hours on the weekends. It's also not unusual for me to go weeks without playing much of anything

Bayonetta 3 when it came out, I played through it over one of the weeks I had on leave over Christmas. After all the usual Christmas shenanigans were all done. Astral Chain was similar from memory. Neither were particularly time intensive

So yeah, I think you've got it a bit wrong there. I think the reason why they're not more popular comes more down to the relatively niche genre appeal and significantly lower marketing budget. It has little at all to do with what the average gamer has time for because if the average gamer can find time for Animal Crossing and TotK they can find time for something like Bayonetta

@FishyS I'm not sure motion sickness is a major factor, it mainly seems to be a distaste towards guns and war. Japanese culture is much more social than individualistic and emphasizes harmony among the group, so military themed IPs like Metroid and Advance Wars don't really appeal to that sort of audience. Metroid in particular, Japan just seems to want the opposite of the kind of experience Metroid is providing.

This seems to be the major reason why Prime 4 is including the controversial escort NPCs, someone at NOJ probably insisted on this mechanic to attempt to sell more copies in Japan. Because anytime gameplay involving fighting or combat is involved in a Japanese-appealing game (like JRPGs for example)? Notice that it's a team of people working together to defeat a common enemy, not one character on their own. Prime 4 seems to want to replicate this sort of dynamic. Really any of the more controversial/less-regarded Metroid entries (Other M and Federation Force come to mind) seem to have this goal in mind and end up compromising the Western appeal while also failing to attract more Japanese fans.

Honestly I'm not sure what Nintendo can do about it, and it's extremely unfortunate because it feels like Metroid would be pretty successful otherwise. I mean Metroidvanias are similar to exploration focused IPs like the 3D Marios and 3D Zeldas and those have no problem selling millions, so if Japan were more receptive to shooters it would probably sell similar numbers. But Japan seems to be set in their ways and unwilling to branch out to a game like this. Aside from just waiting and seeing if the culture will eventually change it's hard to imagine Japan suddenly liking it.

I honestly don't think Nintendo cares too much about Metroid's success in Japan. Or at most, Other M was an attempt to fix that that didn't work and then, if you noticed, haven't given Japan a Metroid game to make since. Which granted, 4 new games isn't a lot, but that's across 3 devs, all outside of Japan.

Like I'm sure there's Japanese game design choices and the like that end up being involved, especially since they're generally still overseen by people who made the classic games. But they're their own niche, they know that, they try to succeed at that niche.

I mean I guess you could look at Federation Force, but...I dunno. At best it was made because NSMBWii made all the money and then other platformers and then Triforce Heroes happened so here we got another co-op game, a thing that feels weirdly not a mainstream gaming focus anymore except when Hazelight make a game. Otherwise, I'm not convinced that game was made for anyone in particular. I think for a year or two Nintendo's primarily demographic might've actually been no one in particular, pre-Switch era was rough.

Ya, I don't see Prime 4 as catering to Japan in the slightest. Nothing is controversial except among a minority of purists. I don't see including a few additional characters as hindering nor helping its success. It will stand, or fall, based on how good it is irrespective of that aspect.

Ultimately, I think they're just making the game they want to make. But it definitely doesn't seem to be catering to Japan. Not that I'd be opposed to that if it were, I just don't see it. The producer revealed this was essentially the idea he had for Metroid Prime 2 originally, so like Dread, I think it's just the creative vision, and if ppl in Japan don't like it, oh well. Can't please everyone I suppose.

@Ralizah
I hope it does as well as you predict on NSW2. I know it's not exactly the same as say, Bayonetta, but I do think it could be a gateway drug to other action focused games, which could benefit Platinum titles in the future.