Topic: Current Switch 2 line-up not good enough?

@OmnitronVariant
Yeah, but it has no exclusives. So it has no games. That's this thread logic and the absurdity I was highlighting

Steam Deck has plenty of exclusives not found on Nintendo’s platforms, including Switch/2. By your own definition.

@OmnitronVariant
Not sure what your point is here or who you're arguing with. But my position is and has always been that hardware is just a vehicle to allow you to play games. And that the best platform to play a game on is whatever platform the game is on

I've literally been arguing in the last couple of pages that exclusivity is not something that we as players of games should care about. It matters to shareholders, it matters to companies, it doesn't matter to us. The only reason I brought up the Deck was to highlight that it is a platform which, almost by definition, is lacking exclusives. And yet it is still compelling. Why? Because exclusivity doesn't really matter, what matters is whether or not it has games

Switch 2 has games

@skywake It doesn’t have games I find good or worth the buy in price, however. Given that I was already done with my Switch 1 library (which is fantastic, but I’ve played it to death), it does not have enough games to make the purchase worth it. MKW and Bananza are severe disappointments to me, the former being the only reason I got it at launch because I assumed it to be a safe bet, and that major first party titles would soon follow if not.

That’s mine and many other’s argument. It’s fine you disagree but they are nonetheless valid.

Steam Deck on the other hand is a platform that supports almost everything on Switch 2, often runs it better (because we don’t have to wait for patches), and has far far more new games coming out for it all the time that aren’t even on Switch 2 for multiple reasons, one being Nintendo’s asinine approach to devkits.

A recent one I enjoy is an indie gem called Easy Delivery Co, by the way. Highly recommended, even uses analogue trigger input for driving. A hardware feature that is fantastic. Honestly Steam Deck feels more like a spiritual Switch 2 to me because of all the creative input methods it supports, but that’s another topic.

@OmnitronVariant
Cool story, but I was replying to commentary which was arguing that Metroid Prime 4 does not count because it's also on Switch. Or that TotK doesn't count in the way that Mario Kart 8 Deluxe did because less people owned the Wii U

Literally all I'm saying is that this kind of distinction is meaningless. The game either exists on the platform or it doesn't. Everything else is either meaningless gaming forum fodder or a concern for shareholders

And I’m talking about the thread’s topic. Please try to stay on topic.

@skywake Now it seems @OmnitronVariant is trying to gaslight you. This topic is about the quality of the Switch 2 line-up and people were discussing which games should be considered part of it. How is that not on topic? And how can Deck, being an open platform, by any logic have exclusives? It can‘t. And skywake provided no other metric or definition for that.

Edit: And another blatant lie: "But with S2 a lot of S1 games don’t work, some work poorly" There are a total of five pieces of software (not all of them games like Crunchyroll) that do not work on Switch 2 and a relatively short list out of the massive library of games that still have some problems. @OmnitronVariant: What is your game? Why are you lying to and gaslighting people on here?

@OmnitronVariant
So let me get this straight. You agree with me that a game counts for a platform if it is playable on that platform. But only for PC. On Switch 2 the game only counts if it's built specifically for the hardware from the ground up. Also it has to meet your requirements of.... not being on Switch 2 I guess?

All I'm saying is that the reason why PC gaming is great is because it's an open platform. That there isn't really this exclusive structure other platforms lean on. These games "count" for something like the Steam Deck. And that, by extention, cross gen and cross platform games on Switch 2 are also a good thing. These games also "count"

If you feel like this commentary is off topic then cool. But last I checked this topic was about whether or not there are enough games on Switch 2. I'm talking about how the definition and platform warrior games people play are silly. A game is either on the platform or it isn't, and what matters to us as gamers is access to the games

Switch 2 has plenty of games

@darkfenrir

Steamdeck sales are fairly small compared to Switch and Switch 2 even. When I looked at the pc gaming handheld market I think in total 15 million had been sold and that is from the very beginning of the very first pc gaming handhelds which is many years ago and were effectively tablets that fitted into a joypad enclosure but the whole market worldwide is fairly small however billions of people use pc's as their main gaming platform, it could be laptops, desktop pcs, mini pcs etc. The steamdeck is just one way of playing PC games and people with a steam deck I think would likely have a desktop pc or maybe laptop too. So a Switch or Switch 2 user would play their console in portable mode or docked but PC gamers would likely just have a steamdeck for portable play in addition to another PC connected to a display or a laptop. I've seen enough videos on youtube where it seems like some people with steamdecks use them mainly for emulation. It's a versatile device. It really doesn't matter how many steamdecks get sold though as its not a fixed platform and getting games for it is not reliant on how many steamdecks are sold just how many PCs are being used in general for gaming.

There seems to be a huge and active community making sure steamdecks can run all the latest games as well as possible. The fact it now has FSR4 on it is brilliant.

Lets not forget the Steamdeck has about 4x or more the CPU performance of Switch 2, more memory, faster memory bandwidth, better screen, more powerful GPU (1.6Tf vs 1.3Tf). Yes it lacks DLSS and when docked the Switch 2 can deliver 2.2-2.4Tf of GPU performance but generally the Steamdeck is far superior. The Switch 2 may get a few optimised multi-platform games for it but they will still be cut down to suit the low CPU resources and they will be super expensive and there won't be many of them.

@skywake Nope you didn’t get it. I didn’t say multi-platform games don’t count for Switch. But even including multi-platform games, there’s significantly less choice on the Switch platform, especially so for existing games that utilise Switch 2’s hardware, because almost all of them necessitate a patch from the developer and approval by Nintendo to do so. And then there’s the whole inane situation with games like Pokemon Z-A launching on Switch 1 and 2 but you have to pay more to enable a higher resolution and framerate on Switch 2! That is really off-putting.

Hence they are of lesser value on Switch 2. And so the cons of the closed platform having few exclusive games and fewer multi-platform games total that actually utilise the new hardware are greater.

@OmnitronVariant
I think you just need to count the games. Pretty simple.

I would wager most people who aren't like us hanging out in forums day in and day out probably do, so if we want to mirror what most people are thinking... the Switch 2 has a boat load of games.

@rallydefault No most people don't spend a lot on games or consoles, so they're more likely to make considerations based on price first and foremost + what's unique or exclusive to the new machine. But more than anything they're patient and usually never care what's "new", unless it's some major mainstream sensation.

Most of them will just keep buying games for Switch 1 — or as some of my friends with children have done; buy a used Switch 1 since you can get them super cheap, and scoop up a bunch of games for next to nothing. For them, "slightly better framerate/resolution" and "two big games" doesn't matter at all. They don't care enough to fork out a premium, and their kids literally don't notice. They can wait until Switch 2 is cheap used and Switch 3 has come out. That's what I see among friends and family with children for whom gaming isn't a hobby.

A broad sweeping generalisation which you present as fact but then go on and base on slice of life anecdotal evidence. Are you even for real?

@jfp It was in response to this comment: "I would wager most people who aren't like us [...]". What do you want, a peer reviewed study..? This is an open discussion, it's full of anecdata. We have to be able to have civil, good-faith discourse despite not having "hard data" for everything, surely. We're talking about entertainment here, whose enjoyment is entirely subjective to begin with.

Not sure where you are getting those numbers. The actual Nintendo website has a list of 155 games which don't work on Switch 2. Some of those games won't even load, some have other major issues. There is also another smaller list of games they have already figured out how to fix the issues in but have not put out the patch for yet. These games are all marked in the eShop and won't let you even buy them on the Switch 2 eShop. Unfortunately, these lists aren't complete because Nintendo only did pretty basic testing on older (especially smaller) games; I've had to call Nintendo support about games not working on Switch 2 multiple times and obnoxiously the support people don't seem connected to the people who make the compatibility list so they just shrug and offer to refund broken games rather than adding them to the list. For example Klonoa, a fairly major game, works in some regions and in physical form, but not digital in some regions and Nintendo doesn't acknowledge there is a problem even after several people reported it (by not work I nean the game won't even open on Switch 2).

I agree with your point that most Switch 1 games work on Switch 2 (almost definitely over 95%) and that a decent chunk of the ones which work, work better than on Switch 2, but it's not quite as rosy as you are claiming.

Considering the amount of games on the eShop, there are definitely well over 10,000 games which run well on Switch 2 and over 50 games come to the eShop every week. So... there are definitely games 😆

Edit I think the list of '6 games which can't be used on Switch 2' indicates software which can't even be patched in theory — either it uses the IR too much which Switch 2 doesn't have or (like Crunchyroll) it would need a complete Switch 2 version and maybe a new a legal agreement. The other couple hundred games (plus games which didn't make the list) could definitely work fine if they get patched, although whether they will get patched is an open question.

@OmnitronVariant
Even if they don't spend a ton on games, what I'm saying is that there's still a ton to pick from.

These are people who don't care about game key cards, eShop-only, Switch 2 enhancements, etc. They bought a Switch 2 (or whatever console, really), they look at the games that can run on it, and they buy what they can buy.

So, yea, there's a ton of stuff out there for Switch 2.

And if you wanna talk the anecdotal stuff about people who are pretty much always a generation behind... I don't know how those people are relevant to a discussion like this? We're talking about people who are likely to buy a new console within its first year or so, which it sounds like those friends/family you're talking about are highly unlikely to do regardless of console.

I wasn't replying to you, I was replying to the comment from @Bolt_Strike and you inserted yourself into it. @Bolt_Strike was arguing that the only games which count for Switch 2 are Switch 2 exclusives. I brought up the Steam Deck and the fact that it not having "exclusives" did not impact how great a piece of hardware it was to highlight the absurdity of that position

That what I was saying doesn't align with your tangential interjection is not my problem

Interesting. A couple of things. Firstly what you're saying here kinda goes against any argument I would have for why PC broadly is a compelling platform. It lacks exclusives, it's generally more expensive. Also because on PC hardware adoption has to come first platform novelty isn't really a thing on PC. You can assume Keyboard, Mouse and maybe a generic modern controller but that's about it. No, PC gaming is compelling because it's open, that's about it. All of the things you listed here are PC gaming's weaknesses

In any case, most people, as in average real world people. Not talking forum dwellers and the hyper online gamer types. Most people will buy at most 10 games per generation. Many will buy maybe 5 or so. If we're doing anecdotes, I expect most Switch 2 gamers will be somewhat like my sister. She's picked one up already for Mario Kart and Fantasy Life. I expect she'll pick up Layton and Rhythm Heaven next year. Mostly though she's just waiting for the next Animal Crossing. On the topic of this thread? For me personally, I think there's enough on Switch 2. There's certainly enough for someone more like my sister

Also, most people, most average people. Most people are pretty tech illiterate, even amongst gamers. I personally think that Switch 2 is a reasonable leap in performance over Switch 2 but, honestly, most people won't notice or care. They'll see it loads faster and generally can look better. But they likely won't set HDR properly and almost surely won't notice many of the technical gripes people such as yourself seem to be hung up on. I'm generally picky about this kind of stuff, even I'm nowhere near as picky as you seem to be. I'm sure that Average Joe won't even care even if you pointed it out. They'll just know the Switch is the one that's also a portable and this is the second one because it says 2 on the box

And eventually the same will be for Switch 2. You're just describing the same cycle of hardware that has been happening since the 80s. New platform comes out, old platform gets cheap. Earlier adopters living on the bleeding edge pay a premium for the newest thing. Laggards are able to clean up on discounted hardware and used software

@FishyS Yes, that was the "relatively short list" I was referring to with differing issues that are currently in the process of being worked out. And 155 (even with some currently unacknowledged ones) out of 10.000 to 15.000 overall is a very small percentage indeed. Those other 5 are the only ones that are 100 % out. I also had games like Portal 2, Tricky Towers or Alien: Isolation that didn‘t work at first, but now run perfectly. All others in my 250+ S1 games collection no issues at all, but maybe I‘m just lucky.

@jfp That's fine; I was just clarifying because saying only 5 (by which I assume you mean the 6 listed on Nintendo.com) don't work is pretty misleading; plenty of other games won't even open on Switch 2. Might they get fixed in months or years? Maybe, although my personal interactions with Nintendo support has made me a bit pessimistic.

And yes, it seems like you were fairly lucky with your collection. My collection is somewhat larger but I ended up with games both on the compatibility problem list and games not on the list which don't work as of right now. Humourously, a surprisingly large number of games on my wishlist are also on the bad list; they still show up on my wishlist in a special category saying I can't buy them.

Anyways, I agree the percentage of problems is small — it was only the number 5 I was objecting to.

@FishyS Sorry, that was not my intention. I didn‘t want to counter the generalisation of a certain someone with another generalisation. Still most S1 games run even better on the new console and it‘s a big part of my enjoyment of it.

Hope there will still come fixes for a lot of the games in your collection and on your list!