@Drowsy: I don't see such adversity against jrpg on western review sites. I own a Vita and it's a jrpg paradise, I red so many reviews and there are plenty of jrpg high ranked by reviewers. The best Vita game is generally considered to be Persona 4 Golden, here in the west too....
On the other points, I don't know. Here in Europe many people are trully hooked by the japanese Anime/Manga/Game culture.... maybe because here in Europe we all grew up with tons of japanese Toons, from Mazinga/Daitarn/Ken Shiro to Dragon Ball, Ranma, Naruto and so on....
For me personally, it's the JRPG's that have failed to evolve, especially now as they all seem to be targeted towards teenagers and those wanting fan service. That in itself can be justified in a whole separate conversation but right now, it's one of the reasons I've been put off the genre. As a kid I used to love them but now, as a grown man, I no longer enjoy the same old tropes of being a young mute warrior out to save the world but being too afraid to talk to girls. That's not me, it's not the mechanics that put me off (for the most part) but it's the characters, the plots, the worlds. THEY just haven't evolved or offer as much variety as WRPG's in my eyes.
@Drowsy: I don't see such adversity against jrpg on western review sites. I own a Vita and it's a jrpg paradise, I red so many reviews and there are plenty of jrpg high ranked by reviewers. The best Vita game is generally considered to be Persona 4 Golden, here in the west too....
Yeah, Persona is generally liked. It really does depend, but I do recall some JRPG's getting knocked for being "weird" before.
On the other points, I don't know. Here in Europe many people are trully hooked by the japanese Anime/Manga/Game culture.... maybe because here in Europe we all grew up with tons of japanese Toons, from Mazinga/Daitarn/Ken Shiro to Dragon Ball, Ranma, Naruto and so on....
There are a good amount of people where I live as well (in Canada) but overall, most people here knock anime the moment you mention it and never give it a chance.
You are right. they kept being more or less as they were before...... this is also valid for me, as a grown up I enjoy more the WRPG. But some JRPG are still superior in screenplay and "art" desing too.... japanese are more visionary than americans or european, imho.
But I believe that since WRPG are expanding in Japan (with the japanese FROM SOFTWARE making one of the best WRPG serie of games ever), as JRPG keep being played in the west, we will see more mixing results. Maybe a WRPG in structure based on one of this "surrealistic" japanese worlds..... or something like the nex Xenoblade getting more action style a-la the Witcher...... who knows. Generally, mixing cultures always lend to amazing artistic results..... I am positive
For me personally, it's the JRPG's that have failed to evolve, especially now as they all seem to be targeted towards teenagers and those wanting fan service. That in itself can be justified in a whole separate conversation but right now, it's one of the reasons I've been put off the genre. As a kid I used to love them but now, as a grown man, I no longer enjoy the same old tropes of being a young mute warrior out to save the world but being too afraid to talk to girls. That's not me, it's not the mechanics that put me off (for the most part) but it's the characters, the plots, the worlds. THEY just haven't evolved or offer as much variety as WRPG's in my eyes.
@Drowsy: as "weird" you probably refer to the more sexual oriented ones (boooooooooooooooobs). Western seems not to like so much sexual oriented stuff (maybe Christian culture kick in?) and the japanese idea of women as "objects" to display....
I remember the Polygon's review of bayonetta 2... bashing the game because of the idea of Bayonetta being too "sexy"..... (facepalming).
I do not know how it is in Canada, from the people I know here coming from there (a few from Quebec), your culture is much more European than the Yankee one....but I can't say. But I truly believe it depends by the fact that we got really a "Anime" invasion from the 80s till now (I am Italian).
@Drowsy: as "weird" you probably refer to the more sexual oriented ones (boooooooooooooooobs). Western seems not to like so much sexual oriented stuff (maybe Christian culture kick in?) and the japanese idea of women as "objects" to display....
I remember the Polygon's review of bayonetta 2... bashing the game because of the idea of Bayonetta being too "sexy"..... (facepalming).
Yeah, I don't understand why people dislike sexy characters, and yes, I'm referring to that and also that there is a general bias against anime inspired games.
I do not know how it is in Canada, from the people I know here coming from there (a few from Quebec), your culture is much more European than the Yankee one....but I can't say. But I truly believe it depends by the fact that we got really a "Anime" invasion from the 80s till now (I am Italian).
It depends where you live. In the Eastern part of Canada (Ontario, Quebec, etc) our culture is quite influenced by Europe and I love that. There are a couple anime shops downtown in the city I live, but I'd say overall people here enjoy western culture a lot more in the gaming community and don't ever give eastern games a chance except maybe Dark Souls and Bloodborne.
I wanted to mention too, that I feel like many people want JRPG's to "evolve" but I do see them as evolved. Gameplay wise, story wise and creativity has evolved much for JRPG's. Just keep in mind that when I say evolved, I don't mean they have to fit your taste or become WRPG's. Both genres are different.
For me personally? An evolved JRPG would be one that has an older man or woman in the main role. WRPG's do this to a small extent but with little impact. E.g. players choose to have a male or female character but the gameplay and overall experience is largely the exact same, thus the age and gender difference is rendered almost irrelevant from the onset. I have yet to see JRPG's utilise this at all. EDIT: and sex scenes or overly sexual characters really don't do it for me at this point. Maybe to the younger crowd but at my age sex does not equal maturity. Quite the opposite in fact.
I'd like to see different plots other than hero combats evil to save the world, village or avenge parents. What impressed me with Fallout 3 is that the goal was simply to find your father and later, give clean water to the wasteland. With Skyrim, I could BE the bad guy if I wanted to and with State of Decay I could gather a band of survivors to hold out against the zombie horde. I don't get that much variety with JRPG's.
Then there is the writing, JRPG's tend to feel too wacky for me for some reason, as if they go off the deep end and abandon a sensible progression of plot and character. You could argue that this is down to translation but I've played a lot of JRPG's in Japanese, a language I'm fluent in, and I still have the same feelings. I can see how the writing works in Japan but WRGP's just feel like they have a broader appeal in terms of script and development.
That's evolution to me, the ability to grow out of the niche corner that you've hidden in for so long, to bring fresh ideas and bigger scope. Again though, these may only appeal to me personally and thus I understand that I'm not always going to get what I want. The last JRPG that I truly enjoyed was Lost Odyssey on the 360. While it had many of the tropes that I dislike. The writing felt fresh enough to catch my interest. If you can suggest any similar JRPG's that you think I should try then please do so as I'd love to get back into the genre again.
For me personally? An evolved JRPG would be one that has an older man or woman in the main role. WRPG's do this to a small extent but with little impact. E.g. players choose to have a male or female character but the gameplay and overall experience is largely the exact same, thus the age and gender difference is rendered almost irrelevant from the onset. I have yet to see JRPG's utilise this at all.
Nier comes to mind instantly. Yakuza also counts, and I know there's more.
I'd like to see different plots other than hero combats evil to save the world, village or avenge parents. What impressed me with Fallout 3 is that the goal was simply to find your father and later, give clean water to the wasteland. With Skyrim, I could BE the bad guy if I wanted to and with State of Decay I could gather a band of survivors to hold out against the zombie horde. I don't get that much variety with JRPG's.
You need to keep looking then.
Judging by your age (I'm like 14 years younger than you) I can understand why JRPG's wouldn't appeal to you anymore at that age, but like I posted earlier in the thread, most people dislike JRPG's because they, quite frankly, don't fit their taste anymore. This doesn't mean the genre didn't evolve, it just means that you have outgrown the genre. It's like complaining that the newest Mario game is kiddy or something.
Yakuza, Nier, and Valkyria Chronicles are games you may really enjoy depending on your tastes, though.
@Drowsy
Less of the name calling, just because I don't share your exact same opinion it doesn't make me silly, it makes me different which there is nothing wrong with. If you have a biased opinion when it comes down to JRPG's then fine, that's your choice and I have no desire or need for you to change that. However you asked me what I considered to be an evolved JRPG and I answered. Just because my answer didn't match the criteria in your head (which you have yet to share) then there is no reason to act childishly disrespectful.
You've given me two games to prove me wrong, not a bad start. Of course you don't HAVE to prove me wrong, but I was inviting you to engage into a sensible discussion which could easily have introduced you and I to new game experiences from our respective backgrounds. Alas if it's going to continue like this, you really need not bother. What a shame.
Less of the name calling, just because I don't share your exact same opinion it doesn't make me silly, it makes me different which there is nothing wrong with. If you have a fixed opinion when it comes down to JRPG's then fine, that's your choice and I have no desire or need for you to change that. However you asked me what I considered to be an evolved JRPG and I answered. Just because my answer didn't match the criteria in your head (which you have yet to share) then there is no reason to act childishly disrespectful.
Read my edit. Plus, I don't think I was being childish, I just didn't word my feeling to your post properly.
It is, in fact, quite silly to label a whole genre of games as "teenager saves the world" considering there are JRPG's that go against that trope.
Your passive aggressiveness isn't very mature either.
I appreciate your edit but in all fairness, let's keep it civil from the onset. I'm not going to enter a tit for tat debate and whether you think I'm being passive aggressive or not, here is not the place for such behaviour. Let's just have a polite and enlightening debate about the games? Now I don't usually address individual choices but let me see...
Neir has been held up as an example of a more mature JRPG many times, so I'll give you that. I wouldn't say truly evolved as it brings the same content to the table but under a more adult banner, that said, it does it well enough to feel different.
The Yakuza series are a wonderfully alternative JRPG (good spot) and while I dislike the male power fantasy within the franchise (and the same can be said for most games) it's alternative enough from the usual formula and helps it stand out from the crowd.
Valkyria Chronicles is a fun game (I've only played the first one) but isn't that another case of teenagers saving the world against some adult menace? The combat was fun, and the visuals a real treat, but I have to admit to finding the writing to be typical of the JRPG genre which has put me off so much.
But in all fairness those are three decent examples of different types of JRPG, maybe not evolved from my point of view, but something beyond the norm that's for sure. Alas I've just seen your second edit to your post whereby you call me silly for not agreeing with you (again) after giving me three examples, without justifying what you think makes them evolved:
Read my edit. Plus, I don't think I was being childish, I just didn't word my feeling to your post properly.
It is, in fact, quite silly to label a whole genre of games as "teenager saves the world" considering there are JRPG's that go against that trope.
Sorry @Drowsy but if this is what your intention is, I really can't be bothered to continue with you.
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