I worry for the future of RPGs, when it seems people become less and less aware of what the genre actually defines.
I've played many good RPGs (not so much with videogames, to be fair) where there's no levelling.
Who cares man? Was that really necessary? You have to nitpick every little detail everyone states on this site.
Hm? I'm not nitpicking. I'm discussing. That's what forums are for, right?
Genre discussion, and what makes for an "RPG" is actually a topic of immense interest to me - this is a good thread to talk about it (as subsequent posts by myself and others have shown)
I gave up arguing over what makes and doesn't make an RPG. You're not gonna change my mind, and there's no way I can change yours, so what's the point of arguing about it? That's kind of how I feel. Though I do get annoyed when people call Zelda an RPG since Nintendo themselves place it in the Action/Adventure category. X.X
Yeah, I don't get how anyone can call Zelda an RPG. The focus of that game is placed squarely on puzzle-solving and exploration. In fact, fighting enemies is generally treated as yet another puzzle that you must solve. I can't find anything within those games that can be specifically attributed to RPGs, outside of Zelda II, which purposely borrowed elements that were considered specific to RPGs back in its day (but is now fairly questionable).
I gave up arguing over what makes and doesn't make an RPG. You're not gonna change my mind, and there's no way I can change yours, so what's the point of arguing about it? That's kind of how I feel. Though I do get annoyed when people call Zelda an RPG since Nintendo themselves place it in the Action/Adventure category. X.X
Yeah, I don't get how anyone can call Zelda an RPG. The focus of that game is placed squarely on puzzle-solving and exploration. In fact, fighting enemies is generally treated as yet another puzzle that you must solve. I can't find anything within those games that can be specifically attributed to RPGs, outside of Zelda II, which purposely borrowed elements that were considered specific to RPGs back in its day (but is now fairly questionable).
From the "Zelda is an RPG" side of the argument that I've seen, it typically boils down to this: There's swords and magic and stuff, and because your heart collection goes up, that's basically the same thing as HP, which is a stat, which proves that it's an RPG.
Which is why I really don't like the "Stats = RPG" claim. Because the Zelda people are correct that essentially hearts are a basic HP system. But then they're wrong because Stats =/= RPG. It's just an element common to a lot of them.
The reason Zelda games aren't RPGs are, in part what Mickey said, but for me it also has to do with:
1) the plot isn't very integrated into the games. Yes there is an overarching story and cut scenes, but they're kept at arms distance from the game itself. The "plot" such that it is, just points you in the direction of the next dungeon, and then disappears. An RPG, for me, keeps the plot more integrated.
2) complete inability to customise the appearence and/or personality of your character. You have no real control over Link. He could be any other avatar (or even a tetris block) and it would not change the game in any way.
3) Complete linerarity. Admittedly some (though not all) JRPGs feature this as well, but typically an RPG should be more open-world in approach than a Zelda game typically is.
I gave up arguing over what makes and doesn't make an RPG. You're not gonna change my mind, and there's no way I can change yours, so what's the point of arguing about it? That's kind of how I feel. Though I do get annoyed when people call Zelda an RPG since Nintendo themselves place it in the Action/Adventure category. X.X
Yeah, I don't get how anyone can call Zelda an RPG. The focus of that game is placed squarely on puzzle-solving and exploration. In fact, fighting enemies is generally treated as yet another puzzle that you must solve. I can't find anything within those games that can be specifically attributed to RPGs, outside of Zelda II, which purposely borrowed elements that were considered specific to RPGs back in its day (but is now fairly questionable).
From the "Zelda is an RPG" side of the argument that I've seen, it typically boils down to this: There's swords and magic and stuff, and because your heart collection goes up, that's basically the same thing as HP, which is a stat, which proves that it's an RPG.
Which is why I really don't like the "Stats = RPG" claim. Because the Zelda people are correct that essentially hearts are a basic HP system. But then they're wrong because Stats =/= RPG. It's just an element common to a lot of them.
The reason Zelda games aren't RPGs are, in part what Mickey said, but for me it also has to do with:
1) the plot isn't very integrated into the games. Yes there is an overarching story and cut scenes, but they're kept at arms distance from the game itself. The "plot" such that it is, just points you in the direction of the next dungeon, and then disappears. An RPG, for me, keeps the plot more integrated.
2) complete inability to customise the appearence and/or personality of your character. You have no real control over Link. He could be any other avatar (or even a tetris block) and it would not change the game in any way.
3) Complete linerarity. Admittedly some (though not all) JRPGs feature this as well, but typically an RPG should be more open-world in approach than a Zelda game typically is.
You're asking for a lot of things lots of RPGs don't offer. I don't remember customizing my appearance in Wizardry, I don't remember there being a story in Ultima that's any more integral to the gameplay than what's in Zelda, and I recall that the original Legend of Zelda was pretty open in its design.
I gave up arguing over what makes and doesn't make an RPG. You're not gonna change my mind, and there's no way I can change yours, so what's the point of arguing about it? That's kind of how I feel. Though I do get annoyed when people call Zelda an RPG since Nintendo themselves place it in the Action/Adventure category. X.X
Yeah, I don't get how anyone can call Zelda an RPG. The focus of that game is placed squarely on puzzle-solving and exploration. In fact, fighting enemies is generally treated as yet another puzzle that you must solve. I can't find anything within those games that can be specifically attributed to RPGs, outside of Zelda II, which purposely borrowed elements that were considered specific to RPGs back in its day (but is now fairly questionable).
From the "Zelda is an RPG" side of the argument that I've seen, it typically boils down to this: There's swords and magic and stuff, and because your heart collection goes up, that's basically the same thing as HP, which is a stat, which proves that it's an RPG.
Which is why I really don't like the "Stats = RPG" claim. Because the Zelda people are correct that essentially hearts are a basic HP system. But then they're wrong because Stats =/= RPG. It's just an element common to a lot of them.
The reason Zelda games aren't RPGs are, in part what Mickey said, but for me it also has to do with:
1) the plot isn't very integrated into the games. Yes there is an overarching story and cut scenes, but they're kept at arms distance from the game itself. The "plot" such that it is, just points you in the direction of the next dungeon, and then disappears. An RPG, for me, keeps the plot more integrated.
2) complete inability to customise the appearence and/or personality of your character. You have no real control over Link. He could be any other avatar (or even a tetris block) and it would not change the game in any way.
3) Complete linerarity. Admittedly some (though not all) JRPGs feature this as well, but typically an RPG should be more open-world in approach than a Zelda game typically is.
You're asking for a lot of things lots of RPGs don't offer. I don't remember customizing my appearance in Wizardry, I don't remember there being a story in Ultima that's any more integral to the gameplay than what's in Zelda, and I recall that the original Legend of Zelda was pretty open in its design.
Older games are more of a "best effort, given the restrictions" kind of approach to RPGs, though. You do have a lot of customisation in Wizardry in terms of character choice (same goes for Final Fantasy, for that matter. Want to have a team of white mages? You can do that! Want to be a "white mage" in Zelda? Nope, sorry), the entire game is the story in a retro dungeon crawler, where exploring and experiencing a dungeon is the plot (as opposed to Zelda, which is puzzle-dungeons between cut scenes, if you took those out, you would still have the same story left.)
Mind you, I'm quite happy to agree that, aside from Nethack, it's difficult to call any oldskool game an RPG
Maybe we could invent a new genre to classify all those RPGs-that-aren't-really-RPGs so I can go back to hating RPGs and loving those fake RPGs since they're far better than any real RPG could possibly be.
But I digress. This isn't the place to discuss the nature of the genre, we have other threads for that. Now back to the topic:
Anybody recall that Wizard of Oz RPG? I just remembered it today, and I recall it was actually pretty good, albeit a bit generic.
Oh, and 7th Dragon is a good Japan-only game I wished we got. It's like the Dragon Warrior 3 sequel I always wished we got, except now it has the aesthetic and story-driven flair needed to keep my interest. The quest system was a bit confusing, even more so than the one in the original Etrian Odyssey, which kept throwing me for a loop.
Looks at how many games Europeans have missed out on...cries
We didn't get the Wizard of OZ game did we...? looked so good as well.
I don't get why companies would localise for the US but not Europe when I'm sure the European JRPG market is bigger(primarily France apparently).
Please sign the petition to get Nintendo to integrate Social Features directly in the Switch OS/Hardware:
https://www.change.org/p/nintendo-integrated-network-features-on-nintendo-switch-voice-chat-lobby
Because there are fewer languages they have to translate it into, I guess.
English is the only one that matters.
Yeh, that'd be the reason and also dealing with all the different rating boards probably... still lame as hell though.
Please sign the petition to get Nintendo to integrate Social Features directly in the Switch OS/Hardware:
https://www.change.org/p/nintendo-integrated-network-features-on-nintendo-switch-voice-chat-lobby
Looks at how many games Europeans have missed out on...cries
We didn't get the Wizard of OZ game did we...? looked so good as well.
I don't get why companies would localise for the US but not Europe when I'm sure the European JRPG market is bigger(primarily France apparently).
Because there are fewer languages they have to translate it into, I guess.
Yeah, RPGs especially take a lot of translation work, and given the relatively niche nature of the genre, it's not as often financially viable as we would like
Looks at how many games Europeans have missed out on...cries
You got Terranigma. You and the UK win. I would have traded every North American SNES game you got hosed out of into PAL-only just to have had Terranigma reach the USA back in the day.
Nanashi no Game is the sort of game no one but Atlus would release in the west. I knew it was never going to happen, but I'm still highly intrigued by it.
Wait, I thought the game was a survival horror/puzzle game (though I'm still interested in seeing title become localized). I've seen some vids a year ago, but how is it an RPG?
Has anyone played Sakura Note? It is from the makers of Contact(another underrated game). Judging by the screenshots, it seems to be similar to the other game. A shame that they won't localize it and that, they still haven't given any new details for their upcoming ARPG Space Agency. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QNxFikiKJ0&feature=player...
Nanashi no Game is the sort of game no one but Atlus would release in the west. I knew it was never going to happen, but I'm still highly intrigued by it.
Wait, I thought the game was a survival horror/puzzle game (though I'm still interested in seeing title become localized). I've seen some vids a year ago, but how is it an RPG?
Has anyone played Sakura Note? It is from the makers of Contact(another underrated game). Judging by the screenshots, it seems to be similar to the other game. A shame that they won't localize it and that, they still haven't given any new details for their upcoming ARPG Space Agency. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QNxFikiKJ0&feature=player...
Me = In LOVE! I've been itching for a good Sci-fi RPG on the DS, and that looks like just my thing. Judging from the screen shots, there seems to be space combat, and it might actually be interesting and fun, unlike the boring and convoluted ship battles in Infinite Space.
Sakura Note appears to be an adventure game, which is a shame, since I would've been interested if it were an RPG like Contact.
Me = In LOVE! I've been itching for a good Sci-fi RPG on the DS, and that looks like just my thing. Judging from the screen shots, there seems to be space combat, and it might actually be interesting and fun, unlike the boring and convoluted ship battles in Infinite Space.
I just found a bit of news claiming that the production of the game was moved to the 3ds. http://tinycartridge.com/post/716095957/updates-on-space-agen... While I am still interested in the game, I fear that they would scrap the 2d sprites in favor of some 3D objects(just like Fantasy Life)
Me = In LOVE! I've been itching for a good Sci-fi RPG on the DS, and that looks like just my thing. Judging from the screen shots, there seems to be space combat, and it might actually be interesting and fun, unlike the boring and convoluted ship battles in Infinite Space.
I just found a bit of news claiming that the production of the game was moved to the 3ds. http://tinycartridge.com/post/716095957/updates-on-space-agen... While I am still interested in the game, I fear that they would scrap the 2d sprites in favor of some 3D objects(just like Fantasy Life)
They better not. I <3 sprites and I </3 3D models...
Nanashi no Game is the sort of game no one but Atlus would release in the west. I knew it was never going to happen, but I'm still highly intrigued by it.
Wait, I thought the game was a survival horror/puzzle game (though I'm still interested in seeing title become localized). I've seen some vids a year ago, but how is it an RPG?
The "game within the game" is essentially an RPG. But you're right, Nanashi No Game is a horror/ puzzle game, it's just got that typical Square Enix RPG vibe going for it as well.
Shiren the Wanderer is indeed underrated, but it's extreme difficulty is probably going to deter the average gamer right from the start. I do agree with you though, great game.
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