Topic: So, You Can Now Ignore Users

@Eel I've always wanted to ask about this. And since it is not allowed but you mentioned it I have the chance to ask!

Moderators are users given the opportunity to make the site a better place by giving them certain extra options like "removing unconstructive posts" etc. but it is NOT a real job. You are doing it for the good of the site not employment?

Did I get it right?

I also ask because many people think that you and the rest of the mods are staff members, some even think that you are working for Nintendo

@Zuljaras pretty much.

@Eel Cool. I also always thought that moderators are payed to be honest because it is kind of a "chore"

@Eel I have an Idea, What if someone has kinda like a highlighted comment, saying what the current topic is, just for those that might be able to see it, it might help with derailing.

Hello again everyone! Welcome to any new users to this thread.

Firstly, I hear you. I've read the feedback and basically what has been brought up today isn't really new, as we've discussed this at length before. Some of it has been very constructive, some of it not so much.

It /is/ a flawed system, sure, however I'd point out that whatever changes we make it then "breaks" it for someone else, there is no perfect system for moderation etc. and this will be a constantly evolving thing.

I think the system is currently working very well in article comments and totally accept it has more flaws when it comes to the forum. Even recently I changed how ignoring/blocking a user wouldn't hide entire threads anymore as on reflection that didn't make much sense. So, I'd ask that people understand that a) we are listening, b) we are making changes and c) all of these things are designed to help/aid as many people as possible. There will always be some people that feel like it works against them, but that is unfortunately just the reality of a system that is there for many reasons.

I think the idea of instead hiding a forum post completely and instead of having /something/ there so that the user knows there /was/ something there is interesting, but I'm certain we'd get a mixture of results. Some people wanting to see there should have been something there and others rather not knowing.

Ultimately we'll definitely refine it further at some point soon, but I think the changes being suggested probably need to be put to the users of the feature and see what the general consensus is. Whilst this thread has some strong opinions, I'd rather make sure we have surveyed the users affected and go with the general population.

The forums, as a whole, are getting quite old now and therefore probably need a total overhaul. Article comments can be updated with a threaded view, which will solve a lot of issues. The forums on the other hand, is a much bigger question for what they will look like in the future.

Anyway, please continue to be constructive with the feedback and there is no need for arguing in a feedback thread. It's feedback and therefore different people will have different opinions on the subject - which is absolutely fine. Everyone uses these features differently and we should remember to respect other people's uses of it, which is why I'm always willing to listen to feedback.

TLDR; no changes at the moment, but feel like there should be at some point, but need to get public opinion on which will be best.

@antdickens Thanks for the response!

@antdickens Thank you for the reply and acknowledgement that it's a flawed system. I understand that it's not a perfect system, but when a member of the staff acts like nothing is wrong is just bad. It makes it look like the staff just doesn't care. I apologize too if I came off rude or it seemed like I was taking personal. Thank you again for the acknowledgement and that this just wasn't an open and shut case.

@Tasuki no problem, remember the mods aren’t staff though

I’m confused by the complaints that you can’t participate in a convo if you are blocked. I can’t see people on my ignore list as they are on ignore. That doesn’t stop me from commenting or even picking up a thread of a convo and I have some regulars on my list. Ignore by itself would be fine if people didn’t see fit to derail threads asking why someone won’t respond or harassing them. I switched to straight up blocking because a user began to harass me for not responding to him despite the fact that I had never done so in my entire tenure here. Or that my comments would spark harassment on other users (usually on the same sex relationships in gaming threads). Of course I know about it because said user would draw others into a complaint fest or have a mod come in and tell him to stop. Would you all rather that users that are harassed or triggered (woo I hate that word) leave because they are being targeted? That doesn’t seem fair either. Leave people in peace.

The only threads I see this as a problem are the threads that make a story or whatever and you need to see all responses even then the comments are numbered. Not hard to figure out if you missed something. I’m only wadding back in because the comments are one sided against when people obviously use and enjoy the feature.

Just want to add to the support of the feature, it really works well for article comments, and while I appreciate it has a drawback in interfering with the full flow of conversation in the forums, it's still, on balance, a positive feature in allowing users to control their exposure to less preferable posting habits.

I feel like you are sort of missing the point here. The point isn't necessarily that you can't engage in a conversation, it's just that you won't know a conversation is happening at all necessarily until a user who doesn't have you ignored quotes/@s a user who has you on their ignore list and you realise a conversation is happening around you you can't see, which feels kinda bad.

I also think lots of people jump straight to like very serious use cases for the ignore feature, but I have a bunch of people who have me on an ignore list that I don't think I've ever interacted with? You don't need to submit a reason to put someone on an ignore list, so an active user in a thread you frequent can put you on their ignore list just because they feel like it and then the flow of that thread breaks entirely. This leaves the person ignored to feel like they have been punished, effectively soft banned from that thread, even though they actually haven't done anything wrong.

You can easily see how this could become out and out bullying, should a group decide they don't like a user, as they could just all put them on an ignore list and just lock them out of threads entirely, effectively.

I think absolutely no one is arguing the ignore feature itself in principle is bad, I think everyone understands the necessity of it but in the context of a smallish forum where just a handful of users can make up the bulk activity in a single thread, the current ignore system just doesn't really work. I mean it may work for people who feel like they are being harassed and other such extreme cases, but for each of those are the people in this thread whose forum experience has been seriously impacted by the ramifications of the feature which don't seem to have been properly considered.

@Pizzamorg I Know who she is talking about, But I really wonder why I was blocked, as I was a big defender when it happen'd ): Edit: it also sucks because I waited for them to show up again so I could get tips for taiko, but it turned out, I was blocked.

But I understand both sides, one side Is happy with the feature because it does what it was meant for, But! there is a whole other side where it does indeed effect them, the system has a downside, I also feel like its a little messed up to invalidate a side that is getting effected by it, just because you use the feature a lot, idk, I'm supposed to be block by them, and maybe I'm overstepping, but this is how I feel about what they said.

Yeah it just seems like a lot of "well it works for me, so I don't care if it doesn't work for others". Which isn't helpful at all.

@Pizzamorg Agreed.

@Pizzamorg I couldn't have said it better myself.

Text wall inbound. Sorry y’all.
Edit TLDR: the feature is to allow users to protect themselves from harassment and to keep arguing to a minimum. That is more important than soothing someone’s hurt feelings because they feel slighted. Unless you tick a wide swath of people off, the site can still be navigated and interacted with.

@Pizzamorg I have no desire to belabor the point but the same happens if you have someone on your ignore list. If that person starts a convo, you can’t see it. Even with regulars it is still possible to hold a convo unless you have ticked off so many people that the page is blank (at that point I would hazard to say that the issue isn’t the system but the person that has been blocked ).

So I will preface this with I am in general not empathetic so I would like you to understand that I am not being hostile here.

However this is a forum; convos start up and stop, derail and go everywhere by nature of how forums work. So I don’t understand how conversation flow or missing a post or two makes one “feel bad”. No one is the center of a forum, conversations will naturally flow around you. Jump into the one you want and let the others pass you by. Even with a regular user blocking you it is possible to follow a thread. (I have had a few regulars on my list for years with no issues on my side) Unless you spend all of your time here and need to see every post for some reason. Which again trying to force that creeps into harassment.

As far as why you are on an ignore list, I have already stated my stance which is simply no one owes anyone an explanation for escaping harassment or rhetoric that bothers them/makes them uncomfortable. This is a forum full of people of all ages, backgrounds and nationalities, we aren’t all going to get along or like what we all say even if it isn’t directly to each other. And sometimes saying something to someone else triggers (i hate that word) others. For instance, what few arguments I get dragged into come from users that respond to something I am talking directly to someone else about. Of course a forum allows for interjection but it is just as much bullying if not more so to suddenly be targeted by a user (and pulled into an argument you don’t want to be in) just for talking to someone else than having comments disappear. That means that people can’t speak because the second they do the crosshairs are up. Which actually drives users away.

If you are being blocked instead of ignored (because you have to go the extra mile to block someone) then someone wants nothing to do with you at all and they have a right to decide whom they want to deal with. People unfortunately take being ignored seriously which usually results in them either harassing others or derailing threads. Which then means that people have to block them. I still say that this is no different than blocking someone on social media. You likely feel the perceived slight because the forum is smaller. But what is the other option, that people have to be harassed or made to feel uncomfortable so that others may target them? It also keeps arguing down to a minimum. You are a newer user but it was pretty bad here during the wiiu era. Frankly most people feel that they don’t do anything wrong so that is subjective and an illogical argument imo. I have never heard anyone say that they are terrible people even if objectively or subjectively they are. As such a person will never feel that they are at fault and that they are being bullied even if they are the ones making someone uncomfortable enough to prompt removing themselves from that person’s purview. So “I didn’t do anything wrong” is not a good reason to take away someone’s ability to remove themselves from your notice. Because you will always say that. Most people will.

With no DM feature it is almost impossible to have a group freeze someone out unless again that person offended a ton of people. And it’s still no different if you are simply ignored and can see that user’s posts. What interest do you have in what they say and why? You can’t interact with them, they don’t see you at all. If you reply to something they said, they will never respond. Are you suggesting mods force that person to interact with you? Why? Why is it so important that they acknowledge you? Would you rather we all sic the mods on each other at every disagreement to get one another banned? And what of those whose very demeanor is repulsive to a user but they don’t violate the TOS? Why do they get to happily leave verbal land mines that everyone else can’t avoid? (Example, this is a predominantly male frequented site and males can be very vulgar when talking about females or female characters. As a woman I find this offensive and it makes me uncomfortable but most of those men see such comments as normal. Why should I have to see those comments or even worse have that man try to engage me in a conversation because he has no idea he is being gross and I want nothing to do with him? Why should I be forced to explain to him that his behavior is offensive?)

Now it is obvious that we simply have two different stances on the matter but I stand by all that I have said. As I am sure you will do as well. You have not presented to me a reason why a person should open themselves up to be targeted to keep someone else from “feeling bad”. They are literally not bothering you, do the same in return.

Simply make your comment in the forums, someone that has not ignored you will engage you. There is no focused attempt to freeze out users from the site at large. Merely a wish to be left in peace.

All this being said we are getting close to circling the wagon here so I will withdraw as I have nothing else to add to this. I invite you to respond as you like but I have already posted my thoughts and thus will not respond further. I’m not freezing you out but I feel it is an irreconcilable conversation and Ant will decide if the feature will stay or not in the end. Which is the final say. I’m sorry you feel the way you do, but you have not demonstrated an actual intentionally malicious use of the ignore and block feature. So while I am truly sorry you feel the way you do, I feel no empathy for your complaint (again this is neutral) nor do I understand why you feel that way. Most of what you have stated is speculative and a projection of your emotions. But such speculation is something you generated and not something that is a part of the website features. Have a good evening.

Eel said it best earlier however.

@Pizzamorg I have nothing against you personally, but I’ve seen you having little hostile outbursts, like the one directed at me in the previous page, at least three different times.

Is it really so hard to imagine some people might prefer to distance themselves?

Yeah because you kept coming into this thread, giving useless "deal with it" responses (which even the Admin distanced themselves from in their response, so that must have been embarrassing for you) and if you are allowed to do that every time, I can't see why I can't also call you out every time.

Wow @Ryu_Niiyama erm.... I dunno if I'm ever gonna read all of that? If I am being real. I skimmed it though, just seems more 'my concerns are valid, but yours aren't' rants or focusing on the same points that literally no one is bringing up - like why do people keep going back to the 'you don't need to know why you were ignored' well, I literally don't think anyone cares about that, yet people seem to keep investing a lot of text to soapbox this ridiculous point.

But you said it best, the Admin has the final say. They admitted the current form of the ignore feature is deeply flawed, so hopefully we'll see some tweaks so users like yourself can still feel you have the same level of protection while others can go on using the forum as they always would have and not have any inconvenience just because someone decided to put them on their ignore list.

@Pizzamorg I said "flawed", I didn't say "deeply flawed". I actually think in the wide context of the site and everything going on it's quite a minor issue that only affects a very small number of users.

That being said, if there are good ways to improve it (for all) then I'm always up for that. There isn't a silver bullet solution here, so yeah we'll see what makes most sense in due course.

I think this thread has been going round in circles now though and nothing really new/constructive is getting mentioned, so maybe we should all leave it there for the time being.