I like Rockruff and both Lycanroc forms, so I won't say no to more of them. The sunrise/sunset theories make perfect sense.
Hopefully Pokenchi provides at least a grain of info on these. Previous experience has shown, however, that reveals like this tend to reveal very little.
Currently playing: Pokemon Scarlet - The Indigo Disk, Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury (Switch)
@Tyranexx I still remember the last time I saw that show for a reveal.
Apparently in Japan it's normal to see random strangers enter your house, hunt for pokemon merchandise and then demand you wash their backs while they take a bath in your bathtub.
@roy130390 There is plenty of data to support the idea that pandering to casuals is not the most successful way to go about this. First of all, there's been a report that shows that older players are overtaking younger players in Pokemon's audience.
The last several games have showed that the series isn't drawing in as many younger players nowadays and so the older players that have stuck around in the series are becoming a larger and larger majority in the fanbase. And it's been established that those older gamers are not going to be as enthusiastic about the casualization, older gamers expect more depth and challenge and so this is the opposite of what they want.
So then, you're probably thinking now, "well what about mobile?". Surely, if the younger players aren't going to where the gamers are, then they should turn to mobile to revitalize the main series, as they have with Go. The problem with that is that most mobile players don't want to spend a lot of money. Mobile by far has the highest concentration of users out of any platform, but a large majority of them are not spending a lot of money. Most of them either make 1 in app purchase or even 0.
Furthermore, many of these gamers are not serious about gaming and are just looking for a time waster to play for a couple minutes at a time throughout the day. So do you really think this audience is going to drop a couple hundred dollars on a Nintendo handheld to play the main games? That's the main flaw with Game Freak's thinking here, yes, there's a lot of people who are spending their time on mobile with a variety of short, cheap games, but said audience is mostly going to be uninterested in dedicated gaming hardware.
And it's going to get even worse on the Switch. With the Switch being a hybrid device that is both console and handheld, the userbase is going to attract a segment of console gamers expecting console quality games on the Switch. And console is a completely different beast, console gamers expect a deeper experience than mobile gamers and even handheld gamers. Console gamers tend to gravitate towards more Hollywood types of experiences, with sprawling, visually impressive worlds that they can get immersed in for hours and hours at a time. And look at the kinds of games that are selling and getting people excited for Switch. So pretty much the opposite of what Game Freak's doing now. If Game Freak tries to push the same old "let's make a game that's as mobile esque as possible to draw in a larger audience on console" there's going to be less people willing to buy that game. Hell, look around the fanbase right now and you'll see all sorts of people getting sick of the casual direction and people expecting Pokemon to take more of a BotW/Mario Odyssey approach. That shows you where the expectations lie with a Switch game.
So yeah, this strategy isn't sustainable. At all. It may be doing great now, but there's going to be less and less people interested in this type of game as time goes on. Does that mean they shouldn't continue to make the games accessible? Absolutely not, you need accessibility to draw in new players. But the casual market is not the end all be all here, they're going to need to keep older players around to maintain their fanbase.
Also, exploration isn't part of the core formula? I beg to differ. The game is about adventuring around a region to catch, train, and battle Pokemon. Exploration is a pretty big part of that, you need to explore the game to find new Pokemon for your team and explore new areas to find new trainers to battle. So neglecting exploration is most definitely neglecting part of their identity.
If you guys want something to read in the meantime, here's a ''leak'' that predicted we're getting a trailer on August 6 (tomorrow). He's got the date right, doesn't mean it's legit though, and we don't even know if we're getting a new trailer at all. I'll put them in spoiler tags just in case. I think they're fake though, the leak doesn't even mention Lycanroc.
Your pleads will be quenched soon. Trailer 2 is coming August 6th. The new trailer will start off with showing major character changes. Lillie is your rival, Gladion takes care of Nebby, and Hau is the first Trial Captain, using Psychic types. It will then reveal new forms for familiar Alolan Pokemon. Mimikyu Horror form. After disguise activates on certain Mimikyu, their sheet falls off and shows a dark creature with a round head, 8 peircing red eyes, and 8 of it's claws holding it up, along with a drooling mouth. When it undergoes this change, it becomes Ghost/Dark and the opponent auto flinches the turn it's unveiled. It's much faster and stronger, and has a higher Special Attack than Physical now, though it's Physical Attack is still higher than normal Mimikyu, but has abysmal Defense and Special Defense. Then it shows Salazzle Gangster form. It is always Male, and can only be obtained by leveling up with the move Thief. It's ability is Prankster, and is Poison/Dark. Slightly Higher Attack, though its Attack stat is still barely useable, Higher Speed, Slightly Higher Defense, much lower Special Attack and Special Defense.l are it's main changes. It has a mask on like Salandit, and a cape with no tail, and an even more slim body. Next it shows brand new Alolan forms. Alolan Qwilfish is Steel/Poison, has new ability Iron Guard, Immune to all Status, including minor status like Confusion and Infaution, but almost always goes last, even with a priority move and opponent using minus priority move. Is more metalic looking, Dark green parts are silver, have longer shaper quils, and a ball and chain attached. Alolan Snubbull and Granbull, Ground for Snubbull, Ground/Fighting for Granbull. ability is Intimidate on Snubbull, Knockback for Granbull. Contact moves have a 20% chance to switch the Pokemon out. They have the color scheme of an actually bulldog, and are more muscular. Both stand on fours.
Alolan Slugma is Ice, basically the opposite of Johtonian Slugma, freezing cold. Abilty is Freezing pressure, makes Water moves used on it sent back at 1.5x power as an Ice Move. However, Fire Moves, even ones that don't do it, have a 100% chance to burn when used on Slugma. The final thing shown in the trailer is what the twisting thing shown in trailer one is. It is called a Z-Ability. One Pokemon per battle has it's ability buffed. Overgrow Blaze and Torrent, for example, all do the same thing. With full hp, there stats besides HP are basically half of what there supposed to be. But the more damage the Pokemon take, the more powerful it gets. At 1/8th HP or lower, there base stats are doubled. Only Pokemon with Exclusive Z-Crystals can use a Z-Ability, and using it acts as a Z-Move. In a single battle it's Z-Move or Z-Ability. One or the other.
Doubt they're going to reveal all of that in Pokenchi. Ohmori is probably just there to show off the new Lycanroc form and little else. At best we might get another snippet of gameplay but they tend not to have huge news blowouts at these things, they usually just show off concept art of new Pokemon and 30 second gameplay footage that tells us nothing.
In general, I'm not getting excited until we get that news blowout that shows off a lot of the basic information about the game (general premise, the region, the protagonists, etc.), which is unlikely to take place here. And if I don't like what I see in that reveal, I may not even get the game at all.
Honestly think that the biggest problem with the newer games is that they feel more like a guided tour rather than an adventure/journey.
That being said, I also think that @Bolt_Strike is severely overstating the "exploration" in the older games. Pokemon has always been a very linear game. The entire concept of "routes" with arbitrary walls makes it a linear game. The newer games just happen to be even more linear by simplifying the path as much as possible and having little backtracking.
I honestly don't think Game Freak has the staff to maintain the same development cycle in the HD era.
@Bolt_Strike Exploration as I said, it's really important, however simplifying it a bit is by no means "changing the entire goal of game design" simply because you keep exploring, catching, training and battling pokemon. Also, considering the region, is it really as simplified and linear as you mention it? does it really lacks that much to explore?
Personally, I didn't find the exploration more simplified and the lack of multi paths... well to be honest I don't remember having many options in the first 3 games. From the map the games I missed t don't look like having many multipaths either, and then you go to forums to see what people voted as their best regions since Alola's appearance and the region seems to be doing rather well. Of course it isn't a detailed poll or anything and that's what needed in order to determine if this is an aspect that needs to improve to get better sales or at least keep the success they have until now.
Also, I do see your point but the links you show don't include Sun and Moon and it's from 2014, so, right now we really don't know if they have managed to appeal to kids. I also never mentioned mobile devices but it was a nice read, and well, it may prove mobile gaming isn't as profitable as many think, but in the case of Pokemon Go! it actually worked as a way to promote the games. That game may be a half-assed experience but it rememebered many what they loved about these games and also introduced kids into Pokemon. So much can change between that last study and these new entries, specially when they actually tried to appeal to a new audience in these games and with the impact that app had, even after losing so many players recently.
Even if the study was recent, wich it isn't, unless you prove that most of their customer base is demanding the same as you do those aspects you want and that you assure that would improve the games for everyone are just your opinion and it's the same with the aspects that you think that have gotten worse.
Here you can see more recent data about the sales, but it doesn't specify the age of the buyers so we can't know if it's appealing to a new audience:
In the end, all those studies could be proving is that regardless of improving or decreasing the quality of the games, their audience is slowly outgroing them and new generations aren't simply as interested in the concept of our generations were.
@Bolt_Strike Exploration as I said, it's really important, however simplifying it a bit is by no means "changing the entire goal of game design" simply because you keep exploring, catching, training and battling pokemon.
Just because the core elements are there doesn't mean they haven't changed the goal. Look at Zelda, it's changed its goal and its formula several times over the course of its life, but all of the basic elements that make it a Zelda game are still there. The recent games, while they haven't changed the formula quite as much as Zelda, have felt different from the original games because of all of the simplification. Everything's just shoved in your face as you continue down a set path, whereas the older games did have a general goal but you had to hunt a little more to find what you wanted.
Personally, I didn't find the exploration more simplified and the lack of multi paths... well to be honest I don't remember having many options in the first 3 games. From the map the games I missed t don't look like having many multipaths either, and then you go to forums to see what people voted as their best regions since Alola's appearance and the region seems to be doing rather well. Of course it isn't a detailed poll or anything and that's what needed in order to determine if this is an aspect that needs to improve to get better sales or at least keep the success they have until now.
Well for one you see a lot more forks and branching paths in the older regions, but besides that you have to go deeper to see the issue. The amount of barriers in the regions that prevent you from progressing until a certain point has increased, and the map design of specific areas have gotten smaller and less complex. I mean, when have you seen something like this in Alola or pretty much any recent game except ORAS (which is a remake had to recreate that to some degree, but even that game simplified some of the maps for places like Granite Cave and Victory Road):
Now you do have a point that the games haven't been entirely nonlinear and eventually the series should push beyond what even the older regions did (something a little closer to true open world, or at the very least sandbox style like Mario 64 or OoT), but for the time being something a little closer to Hoenn/Sinnoh would be acceptable.
Also, I do see your point but the links you show don't include Sun and Moon and it's from 2014, so, right now we really don't know if they have managed to appeal to kids. I also never mentioned mobile devices but it was a nice read, and well, it may prove mobile gaming isn't as profitable as many think, but in the case of Pokemon Go! it actually worked as a way to promote the games. That game may be a half-assed experience but it rememebered many what they loved about these games and also introduced kids into Pokemon. So much can change between that last study and these new entries, specially when they actually tried to appeal to a new audience in these games and with the impact that app had, even after losing so many players recently.
Even if the study was recent, wich it isn't, unless you prove that most of their customer base is demanding the same as you do those aspects you want and that you assure that would improve the games for everyone are just your opinion and it's the same with the aspects that you think that have gotten worse.
Here you can see more recent data about the sales, but it doesn't specify the age of the buyers so we can't know if it's appealing to a new audience:
In the end, all those studies could be proving is that regardless of improving or decreasing the quality of the games, their audience is slowly outgroing them and new generations aren't simply as interested in the concept of our generations were.
Considering the massive gulf in sales between mobile devices and games and console hardware and games, it's safe to say the answer is no. So they have nothing to lose by upping the exploration and difficulty. Also considering the success of BotW and the excitement for the upcoming Mario Odyssey it's safe to say there's enough of an audience that wants that to justify doing it.
That's not really a substitute for the Battle Frontier though. The thing that made the Battle Frontier stand out was the unique battle styles, which the competitive scene does not have and are flat out missing from the recent games.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but one could argue that the different formats going on in Sun and Moon is akin to the Battle Frontier, but facing other people instead of the AI with the Tiny Tourney rules, Weakness Cup rules, etc. Of course this doesn't mix things up nearly as much as some of the battle facilities (Pyramid and Pike comes to mind), still GF might want to encourage people to compete with each other and also cater to the Frontier fans by adding these "different" sets of rules.
Again, I agree with you, the Frontier should return, post-game has been a joke since BW2 and even then nothing compares to the Platinum post-game imo.
@Bolt_Strike To be honest I do see not changing the core elements and main objective of the game as keeping the same goal, even if they simplify or complicate the formula. The goal is the main objective and regardless of the changes in the formula and if the game feels familiar or different, in Zelda games you still explore dungeons and kill bosses in order to progress with the story.
About the map, you might be right about it being more linear, but it's still not something they'll consider to improve if more people actually liked that. Don't get me wrong, I definitely want a more complex and free Pokemon game, heck, I would even like to see the option to reach any area by different means regardless of the level, but what you and I want could actually be the unpopular opinion. Even if they agree, the execution you want could be considerably different from what most people want. I'll definitely like to see something like Hoenn or Sinnoh, but considering that I have seen on forums both regions don't seem to be that popular it may be an underappreciated aspect if they actually take time to improve it in the next entries.
About Mario and Zelda, it's not as safe as you think. In order to base the decision on that a link or relation between liking these franchises has to be proven. Thay also do have somehing to lose if both aspects are improved and yet people don't react as wanted and it results in less sales, despite of listening and improving what people wanted in order to have games with better quality. If having a more simple formula that requires less time and resources proves more succesful in terms of sales, they do have much to lose from a business perpsective.
If Sinnoh and Hoenn entries would have sold better than the previous ones, it would be a clear example of those aspects being improvements in order to have more succesful games in every aspect, but even their reception amongst reviewers is inferior to the reception of Pokemon Sun and Moon. Same with the fans, who seem to mostly appreciate the first two games more than others.
I still remember the last time I saw that show for a reveal.
Apparently in Japan it's normal to see random strangers enter your house, hunt for pokemon merchandise and then demand you wash their backs while they take a bath in your bathtub.
Only in Japan, Meowph. Only in Japan.
Currently playing: Pokemon Scarlet - The Indigo Disk, Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury (Switch)
@roy130390 You're confusing the goal of the gameplay with the goal of the development. The goal of the gameplay hasn't changed, it's always been about catching, training, and battling Pokemon. It's the goal of the development that's changed with an increasing focus on casualization and simplicity. That doesn't manifest itself in blatantly obvious ways but it's definitely noticeable.
Also, what forums are you looking at? Because I haven't really seen a lot of praise for SM (or at least not now, early on there was a lot of praise for the games but since the honeymoon phase for this game ended there's been more and more complaints about the game) and the older games. On most of the Pokemon forums and Youtube, you'll see a fairly diverse range of opinions, but there's definitely a growing contingent of fans that are getting sick of the casualization we've seen in Unova, Kalos, and Alola and those gamers aren't as fond of Kanto or Johto either (in fact, many of them have been calling for sequels for those regions to bring them up to modern standards). Also, good reviews mean virtually nothing in a business sense, as reviewers are an extremely small minority of gamers.
It's orange, looks like the midday form, except with green eyes and a bigger mane. Just like we already guessed. I'm not going to pretend I understand any of what they just said, but I expect Serebii will have some translations soon.
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