Topic: Interesting info from a WiiWare developer

Their gaming services and what's on them? Yes. Ads I see appear to focus on online for packaged media and using your console to do things other than play games on them like watch movies, Facebook, etc. I'm not seeing "Playstation Network -- get downloadable games here!" I suppose it's possible that they might be spamming system owners via IMs or something, but clearly that's not quite the same as Nintendo's current marketing push to advertise WiiWare on TV. I think the problem on the HD boxes is the vendors are pushing everything at once; if I was an indie developer I'd be concerned about getting lost in the "Media Centre" noise.

@Vendetta: Naw, I'm getting tired of this debate. If you don't want to belive or even understand me, that's fine. I can only give anecdotal suggestions anyway, and I do believe some of them (like the games that literally wouldn't work without motion controls) are quite valid. Of course, at the end of the day, neither of us has any real clue why developers release downloadable games on the systems they do (save for obvious exclusive partners and Gameloft, who seem to be determined to release everything everywhere...and even THEY have slowed down on PS360 support lately...probably because the market for their types of games congregates on phones and Nintendo platforms).

@Sean Aaron: I know nothing about this supposed TV marketing push. Are you sure it's even going on in America? Asides from that, let's look at this another way: How many downloadable games did Nintendo show off at E3 last year? Far as I know, zero. Sony? Well, a lot...because of the PSP Go. Microsoft? At least one: Shadow Complex.

Continuing @Sean Aaron: If you look at a PS3 or Xbox 360 box, it clearly tells of online gaming, both multiplayer and downloading opportunities. The Wii box? Pretty much nothing. The 360 online shop is integrated right into the dashboard in such a way that it's nearly impossible to be unaware it exists. The PSN Store less so, but it's strewn around the menu enough that people are more likely to notice it than with the Wii.

One could also argue that the media center method indirectly advertizes downloadable games. Once you get online to see the video shop, the game shop is RIGHT THERE, in your face. You gotta have some seriously strong focus to not at least look around a bit.

As far as I know, the Wii Shop is a whole channel on its own, and is by default on every Wiis first page, right after you start up.
Isn't that in the face enough?

Oh no, this thread is once again degenerating into a "No TV Ads = No marketing" fallacy.

Nintendo markets the WiiWare and DSiWare lots. It just does it in more intelligent and effective ways than TV advertising - which for the final time (I hope. I really hope this gets through) is one of the least effective ways of pushing niche products. TV advertising works GREAT for mass commodities, like food and beer. It does NOT work so well for limited appeal products.

How popular was Magic the Gathering at one stage? How popular has Dungeons and Dragons been over the years? How much Television advertising does Wizards of the Coast do? NONE.

I think the argument in favor of TV marketing for WiiWare is based on the idea that there are a LOT of casual gamers who don't even know the Wii CAN connect online, and those people would be more likely to see a TV ad about it than much of anything else due to their lack of "tech skills" or whatever. No idea how accurate that idea really is, but it SEEMS to make sense...much moreso than advertising "hardcore" Wii games on TV, at the very least.

@SKTTR: No, it's not even the same thing. I was talking about people who connect to the internet specifically to use OTHER media, such as the PSN's video store. The way the PlayStation Network Store works, you have to click on a "video" button from the game side of the store to even get where you're going.

Considering the fact that the vast majority of Wii owners don't even realize you can connect the Wii to the internet at all, I think it stands to reason that Sony and Microsoft are doing a better job of making it known that their systems can go online.

You're right on the fact that there is WAY more to marketing than just TV ads but I disagree that Nintendo promotes DSiWare and WiiWare even remotely.
There are email newsletters and the slips they put in their games that no one looks at, but that's really it.
They could do SO much more and thank heavens at least one of Nintendo arms (NoE) see this and is actually putting effort into it.

I would say Microsoft promotes their service the most. Why? Because even though they don't make ads or anything for them, they have big games like Shadow Complex that they do showcase at shows, and most importantly, the systems have tools for third parties to use to promote the service.
Demos, videos, just seeing the game games on the system as an image. That goes an INCREDIBLE way from Nintendo's "You can connect the Wii to the net now?"

Nintendo can't get around this, they just made a system that is so disconnected from online that they could never give third parties tools that Microsoft gives them. I can't comment on PSN because I don't have a PS3 or PSP.
But the fact that what? 88% of Xbox users are online, they will see something for XBLA games. Wii, you won't, even if you're connected you have to actively search for it meaning you're aware of WiiWare games, you're already on that email list.
Heck, there's not even a social component to send messages to friends to try the game out.. Cause they can't! Cause the messaging service on the Wii is garbage and there's no DEMOS!

There are great games on both DSiWare and WiiWare, but the truth is, the services as a whole are just garbage, especially how on the services themselves don't help third parties promote. Course Nintendo has never been a company that helps third parties period when promoting stuff. Only games they think will sell their system or when a company with power demands it, like Capcom with CvsT. Small devs just don't have that power.

Right. So, the connection-up ambassador program (or whatever the hell it's called) is nothing? The press releases Nintendo send out are nothing? Videos on the Nintendo channel?

Nintendo is trying to get its messaging across through channels that will make sense to the casual players - The Xbox online service is downright intimidating, even to me, a gamer. Nothing about Xbox live, or its promotion, reaches out to anyone but gamers.

Which Nintendo doesn't give a damn about, with good reason.

@WaltzElf: The ambassador program is, to my understanding at least, less of a MARKETING thing in the traditional sense, and more of a weird "have your fans do your work for you and give them free games as compensation" gimmick. More importantly, it doesn't even exist in North America, whence come both Hardy and myself.

Press releases...what, you mean the weekly release announcements that never show up anywhere anybody but a core gamer would think to look? The Nintendo Channel? You have to already have gone on the Shop Channel to even HAVE it, so it obviously does NOTHING to increase awareness that the Wii can go online in the first place.

So yeah...nothing is right. MAYBE those channels would make sense to their casual market...IF they actually saw them. But they don't, which is the problem.

The first paragraph proves that people have such a limited understanding of marketing sighs

It's marketing. It's promoting the use of its service, and on top of that it's getting the fans to do all the work for them. It's the perfect marketing ideal, actually.

Press releases are marketing. And they work. Press release goes out, websites such as this one pick it up and publish it, and suddenly a lot of people will read it. Who cares who directly reads them? No one. They're called PRESS releases, because the idea is to get them out to the PRESS, who then spreads the information around. Whether only hardcore fans read the actual release or not is irrelevent.

I think you misunderstand the readership of websites such as Nintendolife or IGN or whatever. Casual fans aren't about to join in the online community, but they will certainly check out sites for information when looking to buy something.

The Nintendo channel does more than just put up videos of games and demos of DS games to try out. It offers up statistics of what people are playing, and what they thought of those games. Those statistics might well lead to sales.

I don't know what happens in the US and Europe, but I know for a fact that Nintendo of Australia (with the smallest budget and team of them all) does an awful lot of promotional work around its WiiWare and DSiWare services. Of course, because they're not TV ADS!!! they're completely overlooked by people looking for an excuse on why something doesn't sell.

@WaltzElf: Well, the fact does remain that the ambassador program doesn't exist in North America. I also maintain that the number of casual gamers who stumble across websites like this (even without joining the site) is VERY low; moreso than you seem to believe. It is my experience that very few casual gamers ever go searching the internet for gaming info at all, choosing instead to rely either on their own store browsing abilities (bad idea) or an employee's assistance. If you'll recall that recent release that only 20% of Wii owners are connected online, it should be OBVIOUS that there's more Nintendo could be doing.

You're COMPLETELY ignoring my point about the Nintendo Channel. It is 100% USELESS as ANY form of marketing to someone who doesn't even know it's there. What I'm primarily concerned about is that majority group of Wii owners, and what Nintendo can do to inform them and get them online.

No worries man. Nothing personal, either. Some of your points didn't line up to me is all. Next time...

To those that claim that Nintendo heavily promotes WiiWare, please tell me where. Other than press releases, maybe a few commercials (I have yet to see one) and, like Stuffgamer pointed out, ads in places only core gamers would see, I really don't see any ads that casual gamers would see. Do you think someone new to games or someone who knows very little about games would know to visit NL or IGN to read press releases? Sure, the Wii Shop channel is on the main menu right in your face, but then why do so many Wii owners still not know it can go online and can download games? Clearly there is a disconnect somewhere. And to those of you who claim to be marketing experts, you should understand that that is an untapped market that would benefit Nintendo greatly if they could reach.

Another example here: A company selliing widgets could have set up the best website ever invented, full of stats, descriptions, etc. But if millions of people interested in widgets don't even know that site exists (i.e, the millions of Wii owners who don't know about the VC or WiiWare), what would be the point? Sure, it IS marketing, but if you aren't reaching your target market than it is not living up to the full potential.

I think a good idea for Nintendo would be to advertise WiiWare and VC right on the box, or if not that, include a booklet showcasing the most popular WiiWare and VC games.

I don't recall off the top of my head how many Wii's have been sold, but let's just say 20 million. If only 20% of those know the Wii can go online, that is 16 million potential customers of VC and WiiWare games that Nintendo, and the little developers, are missing out on. If all 16 million of those owners only bought a 500 point game, well that is potentially $80,000,000 beiing missed out on.

I don't know, I don't live in America, but I do know it's happening here in the UK.

With regards to your examples of online connectivity, I'm talking about marketing of downloadable games from 3rd parties which is what this thread is about. I'm well aware of PS360 pushing the online capabilities of their machines, but I cannot recall anything in the way of promotion for downloadable titles from 3rd parties on those services.

As WaltzElf notes Nintendo puts out weekly press releases across all territories promoting all downloads, including 3rd parties. 3rd party developers get mention in the Nintendo Channel in all territories with ads and mention in Nintendo-produced shows. If I was a 3rd party that, the large install base and novel control schemes would be pretty big draws.