Topic: How could the new Zelda Game better than Botw?

Posts 61 to 72 of 72


@Hikingguy You're right about the original Zelda, and I forgot they were called "labyrinths" and were really mazes without too much puzzling other than the rogue moving block or explodable wall, though that was likely more a limit on the NES than anything else. Zelda II turned it more into platformer dungeons but it was more dungeony, and ALTTP really set the future puzzle dungeon idea in motion by expanding on those original labyrinths with more to do and making use of multiple floors once the hardware could handle it.

But I was actually talking about Miyamoto's original prototype that was only a progressive dungeon game without an overworld. It probably had more in common with Diablo 1 than what we now call Zelda. His original foundational idea for the Zelda game was to be a dungeon (or labyrinth) game. The overworld was suggested by someone else and resulted from play testing feedback where people thought dungeons alone were too boring. What we know as TLoZ 1 was really heavily modified from his original game design of a dungeon crawler. But as a result of the origins it's probably fairest to assume the dungeons are the MAIN game, and the overworld is a bonus. Personally I always liked the overworld best

But BotW's "dungeons", mostly single room puzzles, and the beasts that were like 5 room puzzles don't quite fill that gap either. BotW is the true Zelda II that us Zelda 1 fans have waited for since the 80's, but to be a "complete" vision, they need to add the labyrinths/dungeons back in in a more complete form.



@NEStalgia that makes a lot of sense. I noticed that you used the word Prototype and I should have ask you for more specifics on that.
I just really enjoyed BotW a lot. Way more than any recent console Zelda game. No hand holding, no long drawn out tutorial, not that many silly characters, just a blind exploration game that give the player little nudges and suggestions to keep the player going forward all the while not letting the player loose interest.

There is just so much to do. I cannot tell you how many times I was going in one direction than I was distracted and went to do 5 other things before I remembered what my original goal was for this play through! And the strategy of the weapon system was awesome. I love the subtle resource management systems. Along with what to keep and what to use.
I think it was really well done. Anyway, any video game that can keep my wife interesting and playing for longer than a few minutes must be very special. She is not a gamer at all.



Octane wrote:

@StuTwo To be fair, I think shrines are a BOTW thing. I don't think the new Zelda game will have them, even if they're going with a similar structure to that of BOTW. In theory, you can still retain the ability to do the dungeons in any order, you can have similar puzzles to those found in BOTW, but have them structured in a way that's more reminiscent of real dungeons. Several floors, multiple rooms, introducing puzzle concepts and building on them in subsequent rooms. Preferably each with a unique theme and unique boss.

yeah, the shrines feel more like a diversion than an exploration of a ruin. You go in knowing "this is one test consisting of one room. 2 or 3 of them felt like big proper multi-room areas to explore, but the shrines feel much more like lab tests from Portal than giving a sense of unearthing a foreboding doorway into some subterranean unknown to explore. Those open-mouth face doorways in LoZ 1 gave that sense of "I'm heading into something large that I probably shouldn't be entering into." Finding a shrine in BotW just prepares me that I have to pass a test. And there will be cake.

@Hikingguy Definitely. The sense of exploration in BotW has been missing from every Zelda game since, I was going to say LoZ1 but technically ALTTP and ALBW had a different sense of that exploration as well. ALBW is merely a "modernized remake" of ALTTP so I consider it since ALTTP we've had real exploration. Add proper underground (or even above ground "forbidden towers" or doesn't really need to be puzzle driven, but a sense of exploring ruins or forbidden areas that you know you ought not to be in) and it's a perfect formula of everything Zelda!

@aesc Haha, thanks! That would indeed be fun, and I, in fact, was a critic on the PC side of the industry once upon a yesteryear. Sadly, I'm a long way from London, and I don't have a red mane and a beard.....I scarcely qualify for NL



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@Octane I think the idea of shrines in some way shape or form will endure or mutate into the next game.

I tend to agree with many of the criticisms - they lack personality, are too detached from the game world and most of them are far too easy/end just as they’re getting started. A handful are really satisfying.

My point was to highlight that some of the issues people have can be easily addressed within the BoTW framework in ways other than simply going back to the rigid alttp ‘sub boss-get tool that unlocks the rest of the dungeon-boss defeated by tool’ road map that (while satisfying and completely revolutionary when games alttp and Super Metroid first pioneered it) then dictates the whole game design.


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@StuTwo Yeah, that's why I think the "dungeons" should take the form of something like Hyrule Castle in BotW. It's a large area, packed with treasure, bosses, secrets and a few puzzles but you don't need any special gear to go there or get through it all. You'd just have to face a large number of enemies who can one-shot you if you've not got the right gear or enough hearts.

Maybe just tweak things around a bit so that you've got some more puzzle-based dungeons rather than being quite so heavy on the combat as the Castle.



Although I know in my heart that another 2D Zelda will probably only happen on 3DS (or least not be a "main" game), I would love an immersive, massive, incredible 2D Zelda once again. I'm talking like many times over the scale of Link to the Past, which is probably the largest one, right?



Something I'd like to see would be a more adventurous take on the actual world. Wind Waker and Skyward Sword tried to be a bit more original. I'd like them to try again and not just give us the same generic hyrule. Maybe do a more industrialised hyrule or something like that.


I did suggest that for the DLC in BotW.

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Octane wrote:

Inb4 the Zelda fanboys with their Zelda avatars...

Who now?

But honestly, I think another 3D Zelda game would be gravy. There's only ever been 6 of them (Okami, not Breath). God forbid someone make a quality story campaign in this day and age with dungeons and unique gameplay elements and things.

Don't hate me because I'm bnahabulous.


Not a major thing but I’d like some items to make a return eg a shovel to dig for treasure and a fishing rod and bug net for catching fish and insects.

I like the open world setting but think they could maybe make some stuff off limits without certain items ie there could be a place you need to get to but can’t get there until you get something like the hookshot. Although rather than just find it in s dungeon you would get clues or a quest where to find it.

Also agree more dungeons and bigger dungeons would be nice, loved the divine beasts but they were all to similar and short.



Nintendo knows best how to further improve Zelda and Nintendo just have to do what they do best — develop games with all their passion and in their very own way.

Breath of the Wild had great cutscenes but the game wasn't story driven. With these fantastic cutscenes I really missed a story that pushes the player like in Ocarina of Time or Skyward Sword.

Breath of the Wild had a great open world but the usage of time can be improved. Majora's Mask used time in a unique and entertaining way and made the world equally authentic as did the open world in Breath of the Wild. I know that the usage of time in Majora's Mask was controversial because of the time pressure. However Nintendo could find a new and better solution for the next Zelda title.

Breath of the Wild had great puzzles and it even had some real dungeons. Having said that, nearly everyone of us missed some (more) classic dungeons — creative and complex like the The Wind Waker and Skyward Sword had.

Breath of the Wild was in many ways huge. Nevertheless we never entered a huge active city (the main city in Hyrule had the potential but it was destroyed) and a lot of areas in the game could have provided more liveliness.

But as I said before... Nintendo knows best how to improve Zelda. I have faith in them.

Edited on by Garage



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