Which reminds me. Someone really needs to port The Incredible Machine to WiiWare. The controls are perfect, the system targets the right age groups, and the pricing is in line with what consumers would pay for a new TIM.
(Of course, that would require Activision to pay attention to their Sierra subsidiary again.)
It seems to me that there's nothing wrong with this game...
...other than the fact that Engine Software wants you to pay for it. While there is certainly a glut of ridiculous puzzle games on Flash sites, the vast majority of those are available at no cost. The developers make their money off of sponsorships and the website (i.e. the sponsor) makes his money off the advertising. Here Engine is obviously trying to go directly to the consumer with a product that is unlikely to value at $6 in virtual currency.
Moral of the story: When your game was previously worth $0.20-$0.30 per player in ad revenue, that is likely all that gamers will be willing to pay for it.
I'm surprised that Get Even didn't shoot to the top of the charts. Being only 500 points, it's one of the cheapest games ever on the system. Perhaps WiiWare customers are well educated customers? (Yet games like Pokemon Ranch do well. So maybe not.)
Oh, and if you want my opinion (which I'm sure you don't), it's a waste of 500 points. The first level (2 areas + 1 boss) can be zipped through in minutes, leaving you feeling like you just flushed your points down the toilet. Wish I'd kept them for GH:WT DLC. :-/
If you decide to get Get Even, approach it with the idea of spending $20 on a budget title. (Which, without the disc, seems too expensive for my cheapskate nature.) Otherwise you're going to be disappointed.
@Ratengo - Awesome! Thanks for the info! I have no idea what half those games are, but it's still cool to know!
Wow, that's just gorgeous! I love how they captured the majesty of the ancient world there. Everything is painted like it should be, the statues look new, and the hoplite helmet is a nice touch.
I hope they put as much effort into the gameplay as they did the graphics. If so, this is going to be an instant winner!
@Starwolf_UK - It's definitely worth noticing. However, the "pretty speedy to begin with" statement is... hmm... best way to put this... must have been before Darren's coffee.
Transferring back to the Wii was pretty speedy to begin with
On what planet? Wii transfers are so incredibly slow that a 4x increase in performance is still unimaginably poor. To put this into perspective, standard SD Card transfer rates hover about 10-20 Megabytes per second.
World of Goo bumps up against the (officially non-existent, but we all know better) limit of 40MB* for a WiiWare game. Given the transfer rates of SD Card technology, World of Goo should take between 2-4 seconds to transfer. Even if we double that to account for bookkeeping overhead and slower transfers due to hardware differences, we should still be seeing WoG transfer in under 10 seconds!
I'm glad to see that Nintendo has optimized the SD Card from its previously atrocious showing, but let's be realistic about the transfer rates. The Wii's SD Card performance is not anywhere near "speedy" and still has quite a ways to go.
@Outrunner - I've heard mixed reviews about the Gottlieb collection. On one hand, it seems to achieve much of the detail that makes Williams Collection great. On the other hand, complaints range from the tables being boring to missing the detailed instructions present in Williams.
Soo... probably a toss-up. If you can find it cheap, it might be worth checking out. I know I'd pick it up if they sold it here in the states for cheap. However, it's important to keep in mind that the Williams Collection almost certainly dwarfs the Gottlieb Collection.
@Atlantis1982 - What'choo talkin'bout Willis? Alien Crush Returns has its own charm, but Pinball Hall of Fame: Williams Collection blows it away. The tables feel incredibly real with perfect sound effects and physics. (Even replicates the nuances of the board designs!)
To top it off, each table comes with clear instructions on how to play the table. Which was a real eye opener for me. I found that after playing PHoF:WC, my ability to play REAL pinball tables (even unrelated tables) was vastly improved. IMHO, the $20 that PHoF:WC costs is a much better value than Alien Crush Returns.
ACR is fun and I'm glad I bought it, but it feels like a poor substitute after getting such deep exposure to the real thing. No trick shots, rollover targets, table goals, drop targets, etc. It's pretty much a task of keeping your ball in play for as long as possible. Which is fun in its own right (which is why I like having the game ), but not even in the same class as PHoF:WC.
@Starwolf_UK - Relax, will ya? Your blood pressure is going to go through the roof, which just isn't good for your health.
To answer your complaint, though, I don't think the problem is that 1500 points is too much. I think many people have the same problem you do. 1500 points is more than most folks have lying around. Since it is out of their budget for the moment, it may be a week or two before they are able to commit to the purchase. That delay will likely spread out sales and result in a slower climb to #1. (Assuming the spread doesn't prevent World of Goo from reaching #1!)
Wrong. Why would Nintendo get half the money made from Capcom's game? Wrong. Royatly rates in the downloadable game industry are absolutely terrible. Microsoft is believed to currently pay out ~35% to developers, keeping a lion's share of 65% to themselves. Nintendo moved into this space and offered higher royalties to the small players. Even 50% is a significant boost to their royalty rates. (Though I will grant that the figure is merely a guesstimation for discussion purposes. Nintendo may be paying out 60-65%. Doesn't matter for my point to hold.)
You honestly think it took Capcom $700,000 to make Mega Man 9? Wrong. You honestly think Capcom took less than $700,000 to develop, package, and market Mega Man 9? Take a look at the credits for a moment. A good, hard, long look. All those people had to be paid. $700,000 is probably not an accurate figure for development (seeing as how it was a figure for possible development costs), but it is not an unreasonable figure.
Especially when it isn't exclusive. Wrong. Non-exclusivity INCREASES development costs. The theoretical advantage is that you take in 3x the profits for a relatively minimal increase in costs.
And the rest of your post is just as incorrect. Wrong.
Wrong Wrong. The sooner you stop using that word, the sooner we can stop escalating these posts and speak like intelligent gentlemen.
THIS GAME DID NOT MAKE US... RICH. SO DIDN'T, YEAH.
To be fair, it hasn't made them "rich". At least not yet.
Think about it. 140,000x$10 = $1.4m. Nintendo is probably taking about half of that. That leaves only 700K for Capcom. 700K is easily the cost of 7 engineers and managers. (Assuming an average wage of ~100K/yr.) If anything, Capcom may only be breaking even so far.
Whatever Capcom walks away with, it will still pale in comparison to their sales of disc-based games. Hopefully, titles like Mega Man 9 will attract more buyers to the downloadable-game market, thus increasing profits.
@x.SuperMario.x - In my experience, those who use "Wrong" as an answer, are usually wrong themselves. Thus I make a habit of parroting back these statements when answering. If you don't like me using it, don't use it yourself!
And as for the amount of creative control Nintendo actually exercises, that would be an interesting question to ask them, wouldn't it? We sometimes get a glimpse inside Nintendo's development process. On some games they have their internal staff extremely involved in the creative process. (e.g. StarFox titles) In other games, they stay hands-off and allow the dev studio a free reign to interpret the source material. (e.g. Metroid Prime)
In all cases, Nintendo holds their contracted developers to a rather high standard of quality. A standard of quality that is not obtained by chucking the work toward a random developer and telling them to "have at it". Nintendo sets the rules, they guide development, they protect their characters and IP, and they do not publish unless the title reflects positively on their company. Thus it is disingenuous to state that Nintendo has nothing to do with these games. Nintendo paid programmers may not type the code into the computers, but you can be sure that Nintendo has everything to do with the development of these games.
The two games you're referring to were developed 100% by Arika and Ambrella. Nintendo had nothing to do with those games.
Wrong. The two games in question were contracted out by Nintendo. This is a common practice of Nintendo, especially when they are shopping for second-party shops. While most of the work is done by the outside studio, Nintendo maintains some creative control over the process.
See Star Fox Assault (Namco), Metroid Prime (Retro Studios; eventually acquired by Nintendo), Donkey Konga (Namco), Mario Golf (Camelot Software Planning), and Mario Party (Hudson) for a few examples.
I was following up with Drizzt in post #86. He didn't link to the article, so I found the link, then tried to find corroborating evidence. Out of the various sources I pulled, not even one corroborated GameSpot's quote. Conclusion? GameSpot may have published incorrect information. Thus it became important to prove that.
Next step, I emailed someone who was at the event. He confirmed my suspicion that GameSpot's information was incorrect. (Though I suspect that WiiWare World spoke with their Ninty representative prior to changing the article. So they may have already been certain of the correction when they published it. )
@Twilight Crow - Thank you for the compliment. It is very much appreciated.
FYI, I emailed Chris Kohler of Wired. He confirmed that he did not hear the GameSpot quote. After the show, Dunaway confirmed the "easy copy" solution with him. Soo... case closed.
Ok, I found the article. Here's the full text of what GameSpot says Reggie said:
"Iwata is addressing the problem of Wii storage," he says. "Soon you will be able to download and store virtual console and WiiWare titles directly on your SD card, and play them off your SD card. This will make the Wii download experience much easier."
Which is the first time those words have been claimed to come from Reggie. Other reports have said it is "dramatically easier" to copy games to main memory.
EDIT: I cannot find any confirmation of GameSpot's article. It would be wonderful if I'm wrong, but does anyone have another source to confirm?
"We will make it so that, when there is not enough room on the Wii's internal memory, you will be able to purchase and download Virtual Console and WiiWare software directly from the Shopping Channel to an SD memory card. We will also make it so that you will need to go through just one process in order to transfer Virtual Console or WiiWare software stored on an SD card to the Wii console and then be able to play it. We would like to deal with this issue utilizing two methods. Since the updates to realize these new structures will require significant revisions to the Wii system, and these changes need to be made by taking care of a variety of different angles, this method will become effective beginning next spring. For some of you, this may be considered late. But please know that we really appreciate your cooperation and understanding. We are working hard so we can begin the service as soon as possible."
“We don’t know the timing yet, but as Reggie said, it’s going to enable a much more seamless use of the SD card, which is pretty bulky and complicated today. And you’ll be able to save from the Virtual Console straight to the SD card. So we’re excited to hear it.” - On the Wii storage solution
"Reggie talks Wii storage solution. Can now store downloads directly SD Card. And the process of storing on SD card will "become dramatically easier," says Reggie."
I can't find any confirmation of what GameSpot says. Every other website is reporting that the big news is direct download to the SD Card with a "dramatically easier" process for transferring data. I don't think direct-run off of SD Cards is confirmed yet. Not until Nintendo comes out and says as much. (Video of the conference would make this much easier.)
With such gleaming recommendations from you guys, I have no doubt that this will be a great game!
On top of that, how much you want to bet that Studio Pixel will charge less than 1000 points? The thing that I love about the small studios is they seem to "get" it far more than the big guys.
I often wonder if producers have taken leave of their senses. Of course, Cammie Dunaway did just call butt-surfing "true innovation", so it's been a weird day anyway!
I'm not really sure what you mean about "not as bad". 30 second to 2 minute copies is what everyone has been complaining about. That's far too long. It's also too slow to use directly.
As for the easy copy, it's not really playing off the SD Card if you have to shift around games like you do today. I'm not sure what interface Nintendo will provide, but having to muck with the files in the Wii's flash memory is not what I had in mind. Ideally, the system would show games on the SD Card and allow you to choose one to run. At worst, it would then cache the file in the Wii's flash like GHIV does.
An "easy copy" suggests that the user will have to explicitly make the transfer before playing the gmae. Which leads to the same shell game we play today. i.e.
Step 1: Move any games you don't immediately need off the Wii's flash memory. Step 2: Copy the game you want from the Flash card into the Wii's internal flash memory. Step 3: Launch the game. Step 4: Rinse and repeat for each game.
A better solution would have been:
Step 1: Click on SD Card menu. Step 2: Choose game from menu. Step 3: Game is automatically cached and run. If another game was cached, that area will be overwritten with the new game.
@bjection_Blaster - 7 blocks per second is extremely poor for an SD Card. Each block is ~128KB of space. 7 blocks/sec works out to 896KB/sec. I've got network lines that transfer faster than that, much less solid-state storage devices. SD Cards are typically rated for speeds of 10-20MB/sec. That's more than 10-20x the speed of the Wii!
You see the issue?
Also, it doesn't seem like everyone quite caught it. You will not be launching games from your SD Card. Reggie confirmed that they'll provide an "easy copy" from SD to internal mem. The only thing that really changes is that we'll be able to download directly to SD Cards. Which (to me) seems of limited utility.
@mmarkster - As I already stated, homebrewers have reported much faster speeds using their own SD Card drivers. It's not the slot that's slow, it's the software.
Grr... will Reggie PLEASE say something about this? Him and Cammie are yammering on and on about Wii Music. I need to start going to these events so I can personally poke Reggie with a pointy stick until he tells us what we want to know.
EDIT: Ok, here's what Reggie said as reported by Wired: "9:21: Instead of dealing with the current hassles of Wii storage, you'll be able to download Wii software from the shopping channel to your SD card, and the process of transferring that software will become "dramatically easier."
Thanks for pointing that out Mr. Cheez. It reminded me to say, "Nintendo needs to fix the lack of SDHC support on the Wii. We want >2G cards supported!!!".
Has anyone noticed that the Wii's management interface is abysmally slow at SD Card transfers? Transferring to the same card on a computer is instantaneous. Similarly, homebrew folks have reported near-instantaneous transfer with their own SD Card software. So I have to wonder if Nintendo isn't doing something wrong.
My first thought is a byte by byte copy rather than a buffered and/or paged copy. (Bad, bad, bad.) Others have suggested encryption issues. To my knowledge, the Wii's ciphers are straightforward elliptic curve cryptography that signs the various files. I'm still not certain this could add dozens of seconds to minutes to a copy, but it's a possibility.
@Ptolemy - I suspect the same thing. Which is why I mentioned caching. But there is no confirmation yet. So until the NOA conference, we won't know for sure.
@Terranigma - Correct. NOJ had their conference at 1:30 local Japan time. (12:30 AM EDT this morning.) NOA won't have their conference until 12 hours after NOJ's conference. Soo... (checks watch) 1 hour and 45 minutes from this post.
Cipher is correct. Nintendo announced direct downloads to the SD Card with an "easy copy to main memory". While that might mean caching in main Flash memory (due to the intricacies of language translation) it is not yet clear that you'll be able to play directly from an SD Card.
@x.SuperMario.x - Interesting questions. I'm not sure if we'll get any answers, though. My best guess (totally off the cuff, just pulled this out of my arse, don't bet the farm on it) is that Nintendo wanted more games in the sub-1000 point range. Since no one else wants to sell their games that low, Nintendo decided to do it themselves. But where to find games at? Someone then realized that the bit Generation games had never been seen in the US and would be cheap to port over. Voila, instant solution. That's my 2 cents anyway.
As for the review, I'm glad other people are liking the game so much. I still maintain that I don't get anywhere near as much out of it as I hoped. Also, I think Orbital is the superior game.
But such takes are simply a difference of opinion. I think the Stephen's review touched on the major points of the game so that readers may decide for themselves. So, great work Stephen!
@ness - Believe what you will. I have now had a chance to play both. The setup is similar, but the physics are different. This makes the Wii version more difficult and far less satisfying in a variety of ways. I highly recommend you try Orbient for yourself, then tell me they have the same physics model.
@ness - You mean like the level at 3:00 in this video? I don't have video of the same stage in Orbient, but it's quite different. Trust me. If you give Orbient a try, you'll find the physics and dynamics to be a smidge different than Orbital.
@ness - Are you certain? I'm looking at the video and nothing is moving in relation to space as a whole. Object are in orbit around other objects inside their shell, but otherwise the player's planet is the only thing moving.
Watch the video. See how the stars remain fixed in place relative to each other? That suggests that the only motion is that of the player. This is quite different from Orbient, where the planets move around each other in complex dances. e.g. There's one level where you are orbiting a super-massive gas giant. Many smaller planets are also orbiting this giant, but each of them is carrying its own orbiting baggage. Some of it is not affixed to the shell of the orbit and can be yanked a bit out of its orbit. (Though that's another thing that bugs me. Orbiting items seem to have a rubber-band that yanks the orbiting items back in place. Quite different from the chaotic paths of a true orbital system.)
@Objection_Blaster - "Interesting" because it's still a game mechanic that we haven't really seen before. "Forgettable" because the mechanic fails to hold your attention for very long.
See my review in this thread. Final verdict is 6/10.
EDIT: BTW, this is certainly the same game as bit Generations Orbital. Check out the video evidence and compare with the one at the top of this thread.
EDIT2: I just noticed a huge difference between the GBA game and the Wii game. In the GBA game, the objects are fixed to their locations. In the Wii version, the planets move around just as much as you do. This change makes a huge difference in the game's dynamics.
I guess I have to add a dissenting vote here. I was hoping for quite a bit out of Orbient, but I ended up feeling a bit disappointed. Yes, it's a great "sit back and chill" game like pOp. But if you're looking for semi-realistic physics, this ain't it.
In fact, I would best describe the physics as "vacuum cleaner physics". Rather than getting the feeling that you are sling-shotting "stars" (really they're planets, but why quibble?) you feel like each planet has the options for "suck" or "blow". Obviously, if you get out of range, the "vacuum effect" disappears.
Honestly, I would have liked to see something more akin to semi-realistic orbital physics with the screen zooming in and out to show you the various relative players in the solar system. (I say relative because every object in the universe exhibits gravitational pull on everything else. The catch-22 is that from the perspective inside a solar system, galactic gravity is an effective constant. Until you bump into another solar system, that is. ) Such physics could have added a great deal of strategy. e.g. Trying to hit the lagrange points so you can zip into a different orbit at will, sling-shotting around a small body to give yourself a boost to a higher orbit, or throwing other bodies out of whack so they collide and provide you with a better navigation point. The possibilities are endless, but sadly not taken advantage of.
Graphics are decent, but could be a bit better. I'm not going to complain too much as the game is only 600 points. The sound effects and music gets a bit grating, though. The gravity effects sound like a Buck Rogers tractor beam (high pitched warble and all) while the music has that 50's SciFi kitsch to it. i.e. Subdued and full of weird "space" noises.
The total package ends up being interesting, but ultimately forgettable.
@zoipi - bit Generations Orbital was described by the handheld gaming site MoDojo as 'a simplified Katamari Damacy'. So if you've played Katamari, this game might be somewhat similar.
I'm excited about getting Protoman. However, doesn't it seem that Protoman makes the game easier? Which isn't a bad thing necessarily, but it does go a long way to explain why he isn't just a "part of the game".
9/10? Come on Corbie, you should have just given it a 10. We wouldn't have minded!
One thing I do disagree with is that MM9 looks exactly like an NES game. The developers definitely did a good job of evoking that sense (especially if you leave the flicker and tearing on), but there are several aspects the NES simply wasn't capable of. Two that stand out immediately are the colors and minimal flicker.
The palette on stages like Jewel Man and Plug Man are far too rich in blues and purples to come from the NES's ruddy palette. Similarly, there are areas where the NES would run out of sprites and make characters flicker like mad or become invisible until they move up or down.
These graphics look GREAT and I doubt many players would notice the difference. But the differences are there, so don't expect a cartridge any time soon.
Comments 551
Re: Review: Hockey Allstar Shootout (WiiWare)
"Wow this means that TIM is better than this"
Which reminds me. Someone really needs to port The Incredible Machine to WiiWare. The controls are perfect, the system targets the right age groups, and the pricing is in line with what consumers would pay for a new TIM.
(Of course, that would require Activision to pay attention to their Sierra subsidiary again.)
Re: Review: Bang! (WiiWare)
It seems to me that there's nothing wrong with this game...
...other than the fact that Engine Software wants you to pay for it. While there is certainly a glut of ridiculous puzzle games on Flash sites, the vast majority of those are available at no cost. The developers make their money off of sponsorships and the website (i.e. the sponsor) makes his money off the advertising. Here Engine is obviously trying to go directly to the consumer with a product that is unlikely to value at $6 in virtual currency.
Moral of the story: When your game was previously worth $0.20-$0.30 per player in ad revenue, that is likely all that gamers will be willing to pay for it.
Re: Top 20 WiiWare Games in USA (3rd Dec)
I'm surprised that Get Even didn't shoot to the top of the charts. Being only 500 points, it's one of the cheapest games ever on the system. Perhaps WiiWare customers are well educated customers? (Yet games like Pokemon Ranch do well. So maybe not.)
Oh, and if you want my opinion (which I'm sure you don't), it's a waste of 500 points. The first level (2 areas + 1 boss) can be zipped through in minutes, leaving you feeling like you just flushed your points down the toilet. Wish I'd kept them for GH:WT DLC. :-/
If you decide to get Get Even, approach it with the idea of spending $20 on a budget title. (Which, without the disc, seems too expensive for my cheapskate nature.) Otherwise you're going to be disappointed.
@Ratengo - Awesome! Thanks for the info! I have no idea what half those games are, but it's still cool to know!
Re: Review: Space Invaders Get Even (WiiWare)
Ferret75 sez... You can delete the internet channel
Don't do that! How are you supposed to watch TV and play free games if you delete it?
Re: USA WiiWare Update: Space Invaders Get Even & Pit Crew Panic!
Handling the WHATSIT repairs is a pit crew made up of legendary beauties.
May I be the first to say, What the... ???
Re: Icarian: Kindred Spirits - Kid Icarus In All But Name?
Wow, that's just gorgeous! I love how they captured the majesty of the ancient world there. Everything is painted like it should be, the statues look new, and the hoplite helmet is a nice touch.
I hope they put as much effort into the gameplay as they did the graphics. If so, this is going to be an instant winner!
Re: Wii Firmware Update Makes Transferring to SD Faster
@Starwolf_UK - It's definitely worth noticing. However, the "pretty speedy to begin with" statement is... hmm... best way to put this... must have been before Darren's coffee.
Re: Wii Firmware Update Makes Transferring to SD Faster
Transferring back to the Wii was pretty speedy to begin with
On what planet? Wii transfers are so incredibly slow that a 4x increase in performance is still unimaginably poor. To put this into perspective, standard SD Card transfer rates hover about 10-20 Megabytes per second.
World of Goo bumps up against the (officially non-existent, but we all know better) limit of 40MB* for a WiiWare game. Given the transfer rates of SD Card technology, World of Goo should take between 2-4 seconds to transfer. Even if we double that to account for bookkeeping overhead and slower transfers due to hardware differences, we should still be seeing WoG transfer in under 10 seconds!
I'm glad to see that Nintendo has optimized the SD Card from its previously atrocious showing, but let's be realistic about the transfer rates. The Wii's SD Card performance is not anywhere near "speedy" and still has quite a ways to go.
@Angelic Lapras King - Amen
* One block appears to be 128K
Re: Review: Alien Crush Returns (WiiWare)
@Outrunner - I've heard mixed reviews about the Gottlieb collection. On one hand, it seems to achieve much of the detail that makes Williams Collection great. On the other hand, complaints range from the tables being boring to missing the detailed instructions present in Williams.
Soo... probably a toss-up. If you can find it cheap, it might be worth checking out. I know I'd pick it up if they sold it here in the states for cheap. However, it's important to keep in mind that the Williams Collection almost certainly dwarfs the Gottlieb Collection.
Not sure if that helps, but there you go.
Re: Review: Alien Crush Returns (WiiWare)
@Atlantis1982 - What'choo talkin'bout Willis? Alien Crush Returns has its own charm, but Pinball Hall of Fame: Williams Collection blows it away. The tables feel incredibly real with perfect sound effects and physics. (Even replicates the nuances of the board designs!)
To top it off, each table comes with clear instructions on how to play the table. Which was a real eye opener for me. I found that after playing PHoF:WC, my ability to play REAL pinball tables (even unrelated tables) was vastly improved. IMHO, the $20 that PHoF:WC costs is a much better value than Alien Crush Returns.
ACR is fun and I'm glad I bought it, but it feels like a poor substitute after getting such deep exposure to the real thing. No trick shots, rollover targets, table goals, drop targets, etc. It's pretty much a task of keeping your ball in play for as long as possible. Which is fun in its own right (which is why I like having the game ), but not even in the same class as PHoF:WC.
Re: Top 20 WiiWare Games in USA (15th Oct)
@Starwolf_UK - Relax, will ya? Your blood pressure is going to go through the roof, which just isn't good for your health.
To answer your complaint, though, I don't think the problem is that 1500 points is too much. I think many people have the same problem you do. 1500 points is more than most folks have lying around. Since it is out of their budget for the moment, it may be a week or two before they are able to commit to the purchase. That delay will likely spread out sales and result in a slower climb to #1. (Assuming the spread doesn't prevent World of Goo from reaching #1!)
Remember, sales are by week.
Re: Confusion Reigns over Mega Man 9 Sales
Wrong. Why would Nintendo get half the money made from Capcom's game?
Wrong.
Royatly rates in the downloadable game industry are absolutely terrible. Microsoft is believed to currently pay out ~35% to developers, keeping a lion's share of 65% to themselves. Nintendo moved into this space and offered higher royalties to the small players. Even 50% is a significant boost to their royalty rates. (Though I will grant that the figure is merely a guesstimation for discussion purposes. Nintendo may be paying out 60-65%. Doesn't matter for my point to hold.)
You honestly think it took Capcom $700,000 to make Mega Man 9?
Wrong.
You honestly think Capcom took less than $700,000 to develop, package, and market Mega Man 9? Take a look at the credits for a moment. A good, hard, long look. All those people had to be paid. $700,000 is probably not an accurate figure for development (seeing as how it was a figure for possible development costs), but it is not an unreasonable figure.
Especially when it isn't exclusive.
Wrong.
Non-exclusivity INCREASES development costs. The theoretical advantage is that you take in 3x the profits for a relatively minimal increase in costs.
And the rest of your post is just as incorrect.
Wrong.
Wrong
Wrong.
The sooner you stop using that word, the sooner we can stop escalating these posts and speak like intelligent gentlemen.
Re: Confusion Reigns over Mega Man 9 Sales
THIS GAME DID NOT MAKE US... RICH. SO DIDN'T, YEAH.
To be fair, it hasn't made them "rich". At least not yet.
Think about it. 140,000x$10 = $1.4m. Nintendo is probably taking about half of that. That leaves only 700K for Capcom. 700K is easily the cost of 7 engineers and managers. (Assuming an average wage of ~100K/yr.) If anything, Capcom may only be breaking even so far.
Whatever Capcom walks away with, it will still pale in comparison to their sales of disc-based games. Hopefully, titles like Mega Man 9 will attract more buyers to the downloadable-game market, thus increasing profits.
Re: WiiWare Announcement Blowout - Bubble Bobble, Rainbow Islands and More
@x.SuperMario.x - In my experience, those who use "Wrong" as an answer, are usually wrong themselves. Thus I make a habit of parroting back these statements when answering. If you don't like me using it, don't use it yourself!
And as for the amount of creative control Nintendo actually exercises, that would be an interesting question to ask them, wouldn't it? We sometimes get a glimpse inside Nintendo's development process. On some games they have their internal staff extremely involved in the creative process. (e.g. StarFox titles) In other games, they stay hands-off and allow the dev studio a free reign to interpret the source material. (e.g. Metroid Prime)
In all cases, Nintendo holds their contracted developers to a rather high standard of quality. A standard of quality that is not obtained by chucking the work toward a random developer and telling them to "have at it". Nintendo sets the rules, they guide development, they protect their characters and IP, and they do not publish unless the title reflects positively on their company. Thus it is disingenuous to state that Nintendo has nothing to do with these games. Nintendo paid programmers may not type the code into the computers, but you can be sure that Nintendo has everything to do with the development of these games.
Re: WiiWare Announcement Blowout - Bubble Bobble, Rainbow Islands and More
The two games you're referring to were developed 100% by Arika and Ambrella. Nintendo had nothing to do with those games.
Wrong.
The two games in question were contracted out by Nintendo. This is a common practice of Nintendo, especially when they are shopping for second-party shops. While most of the work is done by the outside studio, Nintendo maintains some creative control over the process.
See Star Fox Assault (Namco), Metroid Prime (Retro Studios; eventually acquired by Nintendo), Donkey Konga (Namco), Mario Golf (Camelot Software Planning), and Mario Party (Hudson) for a few examples.
Re: WiiWare Games To Be Directly Downloadable To SD Cards
Play from SD: FALSE
"Easy Copy" to Main Memory: TRUE
GameSpot Article: FALSE
WiiWare-World Article: CURRENTLY CORRECT
Does that clarify?
Re: WiiWare Games To Be Directly Downloadable To SD Cards
I was following up with Drizzt in post #86. He didn't link to the article, so I found the link, then tried to find corroborating evidence. Out of the various sources I pulled, not even one corroborated GameSpot's quote. Conclusion? GameSpot may have published incorrect information. Thus it became important to prove that.
Next step, I emailed someone who was at the event. He confirmed my suspicion that GameSpot's information was incorrect. (Though I suspect that WiiWare World spoke with their Ninty representative prior to changing the article. So they may have already been certain of the correction when they published it. )
@Twilight Crow - Thank you for the compliment. It is very much appreciated.
Re: WiiWare Games To Be Directly Downloadable To SD Cards
@MarkyVigoroth - I'm not quite sure what you mean. I just disproved the "play off SD Card" theory. Which sucks.
Re: WiiWare Games To Be Directly Downloadable To SD Cards
FYI, I emailed Chris Kohler of Wired. He confirmed that he did not hear the GameSpot quote. After the show, Dunaway confirmed the "easy copy" solution with him. Soo... case closed.
Re: WiiWare Games To Be Directly Downloadable To SD Cards
Ok, I found the article. Here's the full text of what GameSpot says Reggie said:
"Iwata is addressing the problem of Wii storage," he says. "Soon you will be able to download and store virtual console and WiiWare titles directly on your SD card, and play them off your SD card. This will make the Wii download experience much easier."
Which is the first time those words have been claimed to come from Reggie. Other reports have said it is "dramatically easier" to copy games to main memory.
EDIT: I cannot find any confirmation of GameSpot's article. It would be wonderful if I'm wrong, but does anyone have another source to confirm?
EDIT2: Here's Kotaku's translation of Iwata's speech:
"We will make it so that, when there is not enough room on the Wii's internal memory, you will be able to purchase and download Virtual Console and WiiWare software directly from the Shopping Channel to an SD memory card. We will also make it so that you will need to go through just one process in order to transfer Virtual Console or WiiWare software stored on an SD card to the Wii console and then be able to play it. We would like to deal with this issue utilizing two methods. Since the updates to realize these new structures will require significant revisions to the Wii system, and these changes need to be made by taking care of a variety of different angles, this method will become effective beginning next spring. For some of you, this may be considered late. But please know that we really appreciate your cooperation and understanding. We are working hard so we can begin the service as soon as possible."
(Emphasis mine)
EDIT3: Cammie Dunaway does not appear to clarifying:
“We don’t know the timing yet, but as Reggie said, it’s going to enable a much more seamless use of the SD card, which is pretty bulky and complicated today. And you’ll be able to save from the Virtual Console straight to the SD card. So we’re excited to hear it.” - On the Wii storage solution
EDIT4: IGN weighs in with:
"Reggie talks Wii storage solution. Can now store downloads directly SD Card. And the process of storing on SD card will "become dramatically easier," says Reggie."
I can't find any confirmation of what GameSpot says. Every other website is reporting that the big news is direct download to the SD Card with a "dramatically easier" process for transferring data. I don't think direct-run off of SD Cards is confirmed yet. Not until Nintendo comes out and says as much. (Video of the conference would make this much easier.)
Re: Why You Should be Excited About Cave Story
With such gleaming recommendations from you guys, I have no doubt that this will be a great game!
On top of that, how much you want to bet that Studio Pixel will charge less than 1000 points? The thing that I love about the small studios is they seem to "get" it far more than the big guys.
Re: WiiWare Games To Be Directly Downloadable To SD Cards
@WiiloveitOnline - Try again.
Re: New WiiWare Game: Let's Catch
@Starwolf_UK - Yeah, but I didn't like pOp!
I do think it's too early to say this will be a bad game. I'm just boggled by the price. 1000 Nintendo Points?!?!
Re: New WiiWare Game: Let's Catch
1000 Nintendo Points? Seriously?
I often wonder if producers have taken leave of their senses. Of course, Cammie Dunaway did just call butt-surfing "true innovation", so it's been a weird day anyway!
Re: WiiWare Games To Be Playable Directly From SD Cards
I'm not really sure what you mean about "not as bad". 30 second to 2 minute copies is what everyone has been complaining about. That's far too long. It's also too slow to use directly.
As for the easy copy, it's not really playing off the SD Card if you have to shift around games like you do today. I'm not sure what interface Nintendo will provide, but having to muck with the files in the Wii's flash memory is not what I had in mind. Ideally, the system would show games on the SD Card and allow you to choose one to run. At worst, it would then cache the file in the Wii's flash like GHIV does.
An "easy copy" suggests that the user will have to explicitly make the transfer before playing the gmae. Which leads to the same shell game we play today. i.e.
Step 1: Move any games you don't immediately need off the Wii's flash memory.
Step 2: Copy the game you want from the Flash card into the Wii's internal flash memory.
Step 3: Launch the game.
Step 4: Rinse and repeat for each game.
A better solution would have been:
Step 1: Click on SD Card menu.
Step 2: Choose game from menu.
Step 3: Game is automatically cached and run. If another game was cached, that area will be overwritten with the new game.
Re: WiiWare Games To Be Playable Directly From SD Cards
@bjection_Blaster - 7 blocks per second is extremely poor for an SD Card. Each block is ~128KB of space. 7 blocks/sec works out to 896KB/sec. I've got network lines that transfer faster than that, much less solid-state storage devices. SD Cards are typically rated for speeds of 10-20MB/sec. That's more than 10-20x the speed of the Wii!
You see the issue?
Also, it doesn't seem like everyone quite caught it. You will not be launching games from your SD Card. Reggie confirmed that they'll provide an "easy copy" from SD to internal mem. The only thing that really changes is that we'll be able to download directly to SD Cards. Which (to me) seems of limited utility.
Re: WiiWare Games To Be Playable Directly From SD Cards
@mmarkster - As I already stated, homebrewers have reported much faster speeds using their own SD Card drivers. It's not the slot that's slow, it's the software.
Re: WiiWare Games To Be Playable Directly From SD Cards
Grr... will Reggie PLEASE say something about this? Him and Cammie are yammering on and on about Wii Music. I need to start going to these events so I can personally poke Reggie with a pointy stick until he tells us what we want to know.
EDIT: Ok, here's what Reggie said as reported by Wired: "9:21: Instead of dealing with the current hassles of Wii storage, you'll be able to download Wii software from the shopping channel to your SD card, and the process of transferring that software will become "dramatically easier."
Stupid. They should have copied the GHIV scheme.
Re: WiiWare Games To Be Playable Directly From SD Cards
Thanks for pointing that out Mr. Cheez. It reminded me to say, "Nintendo needs to fix the lack of SDHC support on the Wii. We want >2G cards supported!!!".
Re: WiiWare Games To Be Playable Directly From SD Cards
Has anyone noticed that the Wii's management interface is abysmally slow at SD Card transfers? Transferring to the same card on a computer is instantaneous. Similarly, homebrew folks have reported near-instantaneous transfer with their own SD Card software. So I have to wonder if Nintendo isn't doing something wrong.
My first thought is a byte by byte copy rather than a buffered and/or paged copy. (Bad, bad, bad.) Others have suggested encryption issues. To my knowledge, the Wii's ciphers are straightforward elliptic curve cryptography that signs the various files. I'm still not certain this could add dozens of seconds to minutes to a copy, but it's a possibility.
Re: WiiWare Games To Be Playable Directly From SD Cards
@Ptolemy - I suspect the same thing. Which is why I mentioned caching. But there is no confirmation yet. So until the NOA conference, we won't know for sure.
@Terranigma - Correct. NOJ had their conference at 1:30 local Japan time. (12:30 AM EDT this morning.) NOA won't have their conference until 12 hours after NOJ's conference. Soo... (checks watch) 1 hour and 45 minutes from this post.
Re: WiiWare Games To Be Playable Directly From SD Cards
We'll know more after Nintendo of America's press conference at 12:30 EDT. If for no other reason than they speak English.
Re: WiiWare Games To Be Playable Directly From SD Cards
Cipher is correct. Nintendo announced direct downloads to the SD Card with an "easy copy to main memory". While that might mean caching in main Flash memory (due to the intricacies of language translation) it is not yet clear that you'll be able to play directly from an SD Card.
Re: Review: Art Style: Orbient (WiiWare)
@x.SuperMario.x - Interesting questions. I'm not sure if we'll get any answers, though. My best guess (totally off the cuff, just pulled this out of my arse, don't bet the farm on it) is that Nintendo wanted more games in the sub-1000 point range. Since no one else wants to sell their games that low, Nintendo decided to do it themselves. But where to find games at? Someone then realized that the bit Generation games had never been seen in the US and would be cheap to port over. Voila, instant solution. That's my 2 cents anyway.
As for the review, I'm glad other people are liking the game so much. I still maintain that I don't get anywhere near as much out of it as I hoped. Also, I think Orbital is the superior game.
But such takes are simply a difference of opinion. I think the Stephen's review touched on the major points of the game so that readers may decide for themselves. So, great work Stephen!
Re: USA WiiWare Update: Bomberman Blast And Art Style: Orbient
@Objection_Blaster - Corbie is the importing type. Probably because the Japanese have all the great shmups.
Re: Art Style: Orbient
@ness - Believe what you will. I have now had a chance to play both. The setup is similar, but the physics are different. This makes the Wii version more difficult and far less satisfying in a variety of ways. I highly recommend you try Orbient for yourself, then tell me they have the same physics model.
Re: Art Style: Orbient
@ness - You mean like the level at 3:00 in this video? I don't have video of the same stage in Orbient, but it's quite different. Trust me. If you give Orbient a try, you'll find the physics and dynamics to be a smidge different than Orbital.
Re: Art Style: Orbient
@ness - Are you certain? I'm looking at the video and nothing is moving in relation to space as a whole. Object are in orbit around other objects inside their shell, but otherwise the player's planet is the only thing moving.
Watch the video. See how the stars remain fixed in place relative to each other? That suggests that the only motion is that of the player. This is quite different from Orbient, where the planets move around each other in complex dances. e.g. There's one level where you are orbiting a super-massive gas giant. Many smaller planets are also orbiting this giant, but each of them is carrying its own orbiting baggage. Some of it is not affixed to the shell of the orbit and can be yanked a bit out of its orbit. (Though that's another thing that bugs me. Orbiting items seem to have a rubber-band that yanks the orbiting items back in place. Quite different from the chaotic paths of a true orbital system.)
Re: USA WiiWare Update: Bomberman Blast And Art Style: Orbient
@Objection_Blaster - "Interesting" because it's still a game mechanic that we haven't really seen before. "Forgettable" because the mechanic fails to hold your attention for very long.
Re: Art Style: ORBIENT
See my review in this thread. Final verdict is 6/10.
EDIT: BTW, this is certainly the same game as bit Generations Orbital. Check out the video evidence and compare with the one at the top of this thread.
EDIT2: I just noticed a huge difference between the GBA game and the Wii game. In the GBA game, the objects are fixed to their locations. In the Wii version, the planets move around just as much as you do. This change makes a huge difference in the game's dynamics.
Re: USA WiiWare Update: Bomberman Blast And Art Style: ORBIENT
I guess I have to add a dissenting vote here. I was hoping for quite a bit out of Orbient, but I ended up feeling a bit disappointed. Yes, it's a great "sit back and chill" game like pOp. But if you're looking for semi-realistic physics, this ain't it.
In fact, I would best describe the physics as "vacuum cleaner physics". Rather than getting the feeling that you are sling-shotting "stars" (really they're planets, but why quibble?) you feel like each planet has the options for "suck" or "blow". Obviously, if you get out of range, the "vacuum effect" disappears.
Honestly, I would have liked to see something more akin to semi-realistic orbital physics with the screen zooming in and out to show you the various relative players in the solar system. (I say relative because every object in the universe exhibits gravitational pull on everything else. The catch-22 is that from the perspective inside a solar system, galactic gravity is an effective constant. Until you bump into another solar system, that is. ) Such physics could have added a great deal of strategy. e.g. Trying to hit the lagrange points so you can zip into a different orbit at will, sling-shotting around a small body to give yourself a boost to a higher orbit, or throwing other bodies out of whack so they collide and provide you with a better navigation point. The possibilities are endless, but sadly not taken advantage of.
Graphics are decent, but could be a bit better. I'm not going to complain too much as the game is only 600 points. The sound effects and music gets a bit grating, though. The gravity effects sound like a Buck Rogers tractor beam (high pitched warble and all) while the music has that 50's SciFi kitsch to it. i.e. Subdued and full of weird "space" noises.
The total package ends up being interesting, but ultimately forgettable.
Final Score: 6/10
Re: Art Style: ORBIENT
@zoipi - bit Generations Orbital was described by the handheld gaming site MoDojo as 'a simplified Katamari Damacy'. So if you've played Katamari, this game might be somewhat similar.
Re: Art Style: ORBIENT
Me three. I love physics-based games.
Re: USA WiiWare Update: Bomberman Blast And Art Style: ORBIENT
Wow, that totally left fielded everyone. Orbient sounds like a fun game, though!
And YAY for Bomberman blast!
Re: Mega Man 9 - Proto Man Details Revealed
I'm excited about getting Protoman. However, doesn't it seem that Protoman makes the game easier? Which isn't a bad thing necessarily, but it does go a long way to explain why he isn't just a "part of the game".
Re: Review: Mega Man 9 (WiiWare)
9/10? Come on Corbie, you should have just given it a 10. We wouldn't have minded!
One thing I do disagree with is that MM9 looks exactly like an NES game. The developers definitely did a good job of evoking that sense (especially if you leave the flicker and tearing on), but there are several aspects the NES simply wasn't capable of. Two that stand out immediately are the colors and minimal flicker.
The palette on stages like Jewel Man and Plug Man are far too rich in blues and purples to come from the NES's ruddy palette. Similarly, there are areas where the NES would run out of sprites and make characters flicker like mad or become invisible until they move up or down.
These graphics look GREAT and I doubt many players would notice the difference. But the differences are there, so don't expect a cartridge any time soon.
Otherwise an excellent review, as usual!
Re: Mega Man 9 Downloadable Content List
Way to go WorryBomb!
Re: Mega Man 9 Downloadable Content List
In that case, you'll have to wait a bit. Or someone will beat me to it. One of those two!
You should have at least some of them in that list, though. Good if you end up doing a patchwork quilt.
Re: Mega Man 9 Downloadable Content List
@Dazza - Email sent.
I don't have a description for all of them, but it is the complete list.
Re: USA WiiWare Update: Mega Man 9 and Plättchen
@worrybomb - I'm not surprised. Concrete Man is the LAST boss you want to go after.
SPOILER ALERT!!!
Mega Man 9 Boss Order