Manicfatty

@chunky_droid - To your second point - Actually, not really true. Both Microsoft and to a lesser extent Sony have been rockin' the downloads these last few months. There are many good and/or great ORIGINAL games, as well as arcade remakes and originals and Xbox & PS1 originals. On top of this, there is an obscene amount of downloadable content for disc based games and both systems have a ridiculously better holiday line-up than the Wii. I'm just sayin'.

@ timp29 - erm...ok. Now can someone tell me what a 'winge' is or how to go about 'winging'.

Also, why would doing... whatever that is make timp29 so very agitated?

Oh, and just a tip. If 'winging' ever breaks out between 2 women at the office again, may I suggest offering up a kiddy pool full of pudding for them to work things out in?

@ Eltigro - No flames. It's your opinion. I don't really agree with all that you've said, but oh well. Like I said... it's your opinion! I hope that it is appreciated.

@ Betagam7 - Point taken and it is actually something that I'm aware of... I just got a bit lazy... so easy to cut and paste into an email I've gotten many vouchers for free product when I took the time to send snail mail when something was irking me. Free... my favorite 4 letter word!

@Wesbert - Nintendo can promote the hell out of ALL of the older VC releases via the Nintendo channel and messages. In fact, they could be doing special promos and discounts for the holidays... especially with how hard times are right now. Do they have to? No. But I don't think the whole 'Why should we?' mentality is going over very well. I've already started to hear people wondering why there were no holiday packages or discounts from Nintendo. And just because you're a success and are moving product doesn't mean you ignore the times you live in.
I DO understand the Wii points post holiday sales point that you made, I just think that it doesn't really make all that much sense in the larger picture. These games will sell any way. Everyone has their favorites they'll look for. New games will move now, and after the holiday as well. If Nintendo really wants to move certain titles they need to highlight them on the Nintendo channel. Even XBL has spotlight games. I'm just sayin'... and rushing a bit here...
(I'm going to write more later but I have to get to work... I'm not done yet )

Ok - I think we need to dispel the myth that Nintendo is somehow going to run out of good games, or games period. That's just silly, to put it kindly. Let's assume that no one remembers Nintendo's Sega Genesis VC bombshell right before the Wii's release (Over 1000 Genesis games will eventually come to the VC). Let's pretend that rather than the multiple thousands of games that were released for these consoles (and I'm only counting North American releases for this), that instead each 8 and 16 bit system only had 200 games. And let's also pretend that the N64 and Neo Geo only had 100 games released for them. That makes 1200 games over 7 systems. Only a tiny fraction of what was actually released. But I'd say that this is a fair number to play with. After all, I know I'm going to hear about licensing and emulation difficulties and plenty of other reasons/excuses for a dirth of good games. So let's pretend then for the sake of argument that this number represent the only games that could actually be brought to the VC (out of thousands) due to these 'difficulties'.

Now lets assume that Nintendo wants the Wii to have a 6 year life span (based on the rumors of something happening in 2012). So... 52 weeks x 6 years = 312 weeks. Now divide the games by 312 weeks and it comes to roughly 3.85 games a week, but let's do the unthinkable and round this DOWN. That's still 3 games a week. So the numbers are stacked heavily in their favor in this little exercise.

And yet it still leaves us wondering... 'where the hell are the games?!?' One game crap weeks? Most weeks have been 1 or 2 game weeks, so once again... 'where are the rest?' Even if they did nothing but 2 game weeks for the rest of the Wii' life, they'd still have games left over.

I'm just sayin'

@ Clayfrd - I haven't touched my Wii (yeah, yeah) for a couple of months. I've been playing Xbox Live games for the most part. I even downloaded Banjo Kazooie... sort of Ironic, huh? I went from playing my Wii and VC games every day, to playing Call of Duty, Fable II, Burnout Paradise, and Xbox Live games like Castle Crashers, and Banjo Kazooie! And guess what. There's always new, and (gasp) quality releases and a robust home-brew community that is everything Wiiware should have been.

I'm not a Microsoft fan, but that doesn't mean I can't admit when they are doing things right. And I think Nintendo could learn a hell of a lot from their online community and it's success. Nintendo fought the internet and online gaming with all of their being and it shows. They can't hold a torch to Sony's bare-bones online community, much less compare even remotely in quality to Xbox Live. That's not even debatable in any way. It's a bold, glaring and painful fact. Nintendo is well behind the curve and now is losing ground in what should be their one foothold and strength. Plain and simple... The Wii has long stopped being my system of choice.

Oh, and I've sent 2 well planned, well written, and VERY respectful emails to Nintendo. Neither one was answer with so much as an automated response. Good luck with that, as they simply can't hear you over the sound of money being printed.

@ deadbattery - I gave up on it months ago. I have my own VC Release every Monday. I break out my classic systems and a cartridge. I haven't purchased a VC game in ages;that's how I'm voting on Nintendo's complete contempt for the VC gamer. They don't get my money anymore. For that matter, the Wiiware releases have been by and large complete to moderate crap. Add to that the complete lack of any Wii software releases of substance from Nintendo and you can see that they are no longer interested in games, just in taking our money. Which is fine, if you're offering good or great games in exchange for said money.

So fire up your classic systems and vote! Let Nintendo know they still have to answer to the consumer. Am I delusional enough to think they'll notice or care? Yeah, right. This is the company that refused to admit their mistakes with the N64 and the Cube. It just feels good to walk the walk, while talking the talk. I figure, if you're going to complain, do it with your actions... and your money.

@ Captain_Konami - Why thank you! That carries extra special meaning for me as I am an @ss man! Heh

@Kelvin - SONIC TUESDAY! Why do we not have a national holiday on that date?

@Captain_Konami - Quit complaining about cheese. You should feel lucky you got ANY cheese this week. So what if it's a brick of greasy govt cheese. At least it's something and no one owes you ANY cheese. I don't want to hear any whining about how you have no place to store your cheese either! Just spend a morning cleaning out your fridge and put the cheese your currently not eating in a large box and have a friend who has room store it. You wouldn't be able to get it right away if you want to eat it or cook with it; you'd have to move the other cheese around again. But it's there. And no one told you to buy so much cheese! Quit being so lazy and move your cheeses around to make room!

I like cheese.

@ timp29 Sorry if I sound vicious, but to quote Khan in 'ST: The Wrath of Khan'... 'He tasks me!' Dude always pops in to berate everyone here, and tell us how, and I'm paraphrasing from many comments left, how lazy, ridiculous, wrong, uninformed, stupid, etc, etc, pick your insult. And then puts the blame for his comments on those who he has attacked. So I tire of that sort of mentality. That's all.

Not bad, but I'm not sure it's worth the purchase. It felt more like a 3 star game to me. I may have to bust out the 'ol master system to refresh my memory. I don't really believe you get the same feel for the game when played on the game gear. I do remember playing both (MS and SG) with friends in the barracks, switching back and forth and comparing the two. Graphics not withstanding, the SG version came out on top as the MS version just wasn't as fun as I remember. I think it really does make for a decent portable game, maybe 4 stars in that context.

@Cally - Probably... some sort of misguided business model/plan... but it sucks. Not every VC gamer is interested in Wiiware and the opposite is true as well. I also don't think it would be as much of an issue if the Wiiware games kicked @ss. Given the dirth of quality games, the lack of really good VC releases stands out. Add to that the slow to a trickle and you have some understandably disappointed VC gamers.

@ Atlantis1982 - Um... Yeeeeeaah... I kinda was speaking for myself there genius. And don't pull the high and mighty crap. You come off as an inarticulate troll and you're on this site ALL of the d@mn time... complaining and whining about all of the whining and complaining and insulting anyone with an opinion that differs from yours. At least be honest about your visits.

Your stands are well known. You don't believe that Nintendo dropped the ball with storage, you don't believe it's reasonable for ppl to want more than one average VC game a week and you don't think that anyone here deserves to have their voice heard if it isn't singing Nintendo's praises. Well, this obviously isn't the most productive place for you to visit. Let ppl have their opinions. Engage them in productive and intelligent debate. Agree to disagree. But plz stop being an acerbic @ss, and stop insulting everyone and complaining about our disappointment in Nintendo. Thank you.

@ Atlantis1982
Oh my dear lord you're a troll. But you do amuse me, so... troll on.

@ Virus - Love the compilations! I would have loved to see Sonic CD with, at the very least, the option to use the Japanese Sound track. I'm not saying it's better, but it's cool. Of course I know that won't happen, but what a wonderfully nerdy moment that would be!

@ Atlantis1982 - You're right... the doom is entirely unnecessary and should stop immediately! Well put... hear that Nintendo? No more unnecessary doom and there won't be anymore cries!

Thanks for the laugh dude.

And yes, this is yet another lame week.

@King Elemento - If the vast majority of Wiiware games weren't space-wasting utter crap, I'd probably be more likely to see your point of view. I'd actually PREFER separate dates for Wiiware and VC. I just hope you're right about Christmas, because the economy has hit hard and VC games are about as much as I'm willing to spend on gaming for a few months!!!

I think that Nintendo would do well to create an interactive portal for all things VC. Maybe another channel for the Wii or an extension of the Nintendo channel. Offer up short vids and descriptions of several VC options in a tier system. Allow us to vote for the following Mondays releases. We would pick from a selection of several 'A' or 'B' list games, and then from a list of lesser know 'C' list titles that are perhaps very 'meh' for most but aren't terrible. That way Nintendo can unload suspect games and check them off of their list, and we would get more games that actually interest us as well as more choices, and multiple game weeks. And fewer flaming boards!

4 stars... seriously. I think you should have to actually play every minute of the game in order to review it. If that had happened, there would have been no way it would have received 4 stars. It's just too vanilla. Unless you're maybe 10 or 11 and REALLY like fart jokes.

I sadly played through the whole thing when it came out... rented it over a weekend from Blockbuster (Hey, I payed to play it so I got my money's worth!).

For comparison: Earthworm Jim was a 4 star game... barely. A good and well crafted game with interesting level design, wonderful character designs, better that average graphics but with some fundament flaws that kept it from perfection. Which is what a 4 out of five is... a near miss with perfection. If control had been tighter, the whip weapon more effective, and the difficultly balanced throughout the game, EWJ would have been 5 star worthy. But Boogerman? It's only claim to fame is it's potty humor, which certainly doesn't warrant the addition of a star. Other than that, it's nothing more that a mildly amusing, pandering, average platform game.

A 3 star game at best. And I don't see how, after slugging one's way through the entire mediocre game, it could been given 4. I'm just sayin'.

ps. As a break down: The game-play and design are 2 of the stars. The fluid animation (which yes is very cartoon-like) is the additional star. As nice as the game moves, that takes a back seat to the very tired 'been there done that' game-play.

I am so confused. Who placed the order for Boogerman? Why is this game even being released? Seriously, they are pretty much just f***ing with us They have to be!

Boogerman? Hop aboard the WTF express!

Yes, it's available on various Capcom compilations, including the PS2. That is the one I would recommend, as the movement and firing are handled with the analog sticks. While this isn't perfect, it does feel 110% better than the poor button solution. And it's the arcade version.

It's a shame their wasn't a stick mapping solution for the classic controller. I also wish that we would start seeing some original arcade games instead of their poor console cousins. I'm just sayin', why not? I'd pay the extra loot for some arcade games that never made it to our shores!

@ LinktotheFuture - Sure can!

@ LinktotheFuture - It's cool if you have a NDS; you can download demos that are stored until you power down your DS. It's also not bad for people just starting out on the VC who haven't had exposure to classic games. I just think that there are better sources for the latter. Having it as a channel is convenient for those who don't frequent videogame sites.

@ AlexSays - Isn't that the 'Golden Rule'?

This is what I meant about at least offering a decent game on single game weeks. MM3 is brutal, but I figured the hardcore MM fans and platformer fans would be digging on this. MM2 IS infinitely more playable, and I believe that was also the series creator's favorite of the series as well. That doesn't stop MM3 from being a good hard-core platformer. I am surprised by the anger I'm hearing when I could have sworn I'd seen a few comments asking where MM3 was.

I still don't buy the whole Wiiware=VC exchange rate. Sorry, but 2/3 of Wiiware should be renamed shovel-ware. And there are a few non-games as well. If anything, I would be REALLY pissed if I included them. Partly because I resent Nintendo trying to shove this crap down our throats knowing full well that we have no place to store it, and they have no intention of giving us a REAL storage solution instead of the entirely BS lie that they are 'launching' (I'd like to friggin' launch it) next year. Partly because it's mostly crap and doesn't hold a candle to the games available on PSN and XBL Arcade.

@ LinktotheFuture - For you and anyone else that would like to use their old-school NES or SNES controllers on the wii, here ya go! Not wireless, but cool!

http://retrousb.com/index.php?categoryID=80

And for the intrepid hack/mod crowd, here's how to make your old-school pads wireless! Provided you have the money, resources, time and aptitude.
http://www.hacknmod.com/hack/how-to-wireless-retro-controllers/ (vid of units in action)
http://www.ppl-pilot.com/ (step-by-step instructions and supply info)

@ Fox, Mr.Cheez & BadKnux -

I made a broad comparison of the dirty politics of this last election to pointed attacks and what I perceived to be a rude and condescending tone of another poster and they later made a comment about a certain running mate. I didn't want to continue arguing and there was some common ground so mentioned that I was in agreement. I guess that's where the rest came from, so I apologize. I pulled away from the discussion because I saw it going nowhere (nowhere good anyway), but I guess it was a little too late. My apologies for not showing more discretion. I usually show a bit more restraint.

@ Betagam7 - Apologies to you as well. I'm usually not so vehement in my positions. That's not to say I won't argue a point, I'm just not usually a easily worked up. Guess it's the times we live in . But I am sorry. And I'm very happy to see Shenmue finally getting the praise and attention it deserves. When you look at games today with sandbox environments, changing weather and passage of time and in particular the single button or sequenced button action events (God of War for instance), you can see Shenmue's influence. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but most will find something to love. Between the arcades, and getting games for Ryu's Saturn there's plenty for classic gamers as well! My 2 bits. I actually imported the UK Shenmue 2! I was hooked. Never saw the whole Sega going system agnostic thing coming, so imagining it coming out on another company's system wasn't gonna happen. Stupid Bernie Stolar

@ Adamant - or it could just be their opinions. I can't say that I find their comment any less valid than anyone else's. Let alone the random sampling of reviews from the dark corners of the internet found on GameFAQS (who are those ppl? ). Some people aren't as charmed by the old school flavor, and it takes more for them to get excited about a game. And that's valid too. There are plenty of new comers to these games. And it seems to be very much in line with VC Reviews score. It's just weighted differently.

For what it's worth, I'd probably give it (IGN Style) a 6.5, because it is fun for about 15-30 min once a week for a month or two. That just isn't worth the download to me. Just my opinion

Stirring up lively debate usually doesn't take the fomr of pointed attacks and rhetoric. Declaring the format of a site irrelevant for the purposes of your arguments doesn't really make any sense as the purpose of this site speaks to the content. Wiiware is a total separate entity from the VC and serves a different purpose. There are plenty of people that own the Wii for 2 reasons alone; 1) Nintendo's IPs, and 2) the nostalgia and convenience of classics on the VC. The VC is a classic gamer haven. Wiiware has a much broader demo. It only makes sense to separate the 2 sites. In many cases Wiiware doesn't answer the desires of the VC crowd. Actually, with the sort of shovel-ware offerings being pumped out, Wiiware doesn't offer anyone much. There have only been a handful of notable and space/cash worthy titles. Which is good, because no one has room anyway. If Nintendo sees them as one and the same... well...not surprising. It is Nintendo. If it ain't so, they'll make it so... in their minds anyway. The vast majority of people I know who own a Wii (around 25, throughout a wide demographic) haven't even downloaded a Wiiware title, but have 25-30+ VC Games.

I think you're analogy is very thin. I can see what you're getting at, but I find your reasoning flawed. I don't see Wiiware being more than marginally relevant to the more/better games argument at best. The fact is that this back and forth between good and bad weeks, single game and multiple game weeks had been going on long before Wiiware hit the scene.

I don't know that we'll ever know Nintendo's full reasoning. Once a game is out there, it's not like it won't be downloaded after the first week. They don't have shelf lives. They could have started with a library of 200 games, and still would have sold through the roof. They could use the Nintendo channel and messages to your 'IN' box to promote and highlight games ever week or day if they want to. Even personalizing the selections to your shopping history, a la Amazon.

I never said anything about being owed anything. Nintendo just doesn't get my cash. Period. That's my vote.

And it was your snide tone and in-your-face manner when referring to capitalism that sparked my response. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have responded. You spoke as if we were somehow too feeble-minded to understand Nintendo's money making agenda. We get it, we just think there are better ways to handle it. And a good company listens to it's consumers and fans.

I don't need to look up the Straw Man Argument; I am familiar with it. It's not applicable here. I responded based on your comments. I rebutted the tone of your statements. At the end of the day, we'll have to agree to disagree on this, or get caught in a feedback loop.

I can see where this is all going, and I am moving on. At least we agree on Palin. And that's something.

@Bass X0 - werd. I just want exceptional games when it's a single release. I'm not asking for great games every week. Good would be nice. But single game weeks should be so because the game is worth it Just my opinion. I think 1 extraordinary stand-out game a month would be good, with ok to good sprinkled in. We've actually had some really good weeks in that time period!

@ Virus - I don't think you're being a butthead

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree! Oh, and IGN gave it something like a 4.5 and our own VC Reviews gave it 3 out of 5, so... hehehe. Just bustin' your chops!

@ Betagam7 - Dude, seriously? I never debated why Nintendo spread the release of their major games out, but rather I answered your (admittedly rhetorical-sounding) question regarding why people weren't up in arms over the milking of their stable of IPs. Or didn't you actually want that answered?

And the fact that this is the VC site HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT! It is the very reason for the tone and subject matter of the opinions and statements you refute! As a matter of fact, anything else falls into the category of 'Off Topic'.

Last but not least, it would do you more justice to avoid topics with which you are not familiar. It undermines all that you have to say when you present items pulled from your waste chute and present them as a factual argument. You obviously don't have a grasp on what capitalism is, it's origins, or where the term actually has it's roots. Here's some help: http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761576596/Capitalism.html

You'll find that the Unites States had absolutely nothing to do with the birth or pioneering of capitalism, and didn't have any significant role in it's growth as a modern concept until the late 19th century. And even then, it was a dubious contribution at the time, and one that has helped turn a fundamental concept into a dirty word. It's success in it's new form was at the terrible expense of others. Nintendo actually broke laws that came out of the reforms of this era during the 1980's. Our first truly positive, and progressive contributions didn't come until the 1930's.

I'm not trying to be an ass, and I encourage everyone to check out the article. But seriously. I really wish you wouldn't take the tone of talking down to me and everyone else when we're only expressing our opinions, and fostering lively debate. And as we've learned from this Presidential race, you never win a debate by being a pitbull, or by relying on attacks and sarcasm in place of substance.

@ Virus - Once again, I must say that most people would be happy with the occasional 1 game week if the release is either a great classic game that is a know quantity, or a great import title that has never seen these shores. Something exciting. And honestly, there are plenty of games to finish so 1 game weeks are welcome in my book. It's crap releases that are troubling. And Nintendo IS the gatekeeper for ALL VC games. They have many games approved and ready to go. They have held up other companies games before, to the point of embarrassing these companies when they've changed up their release schedule. Some companies have quietly voiced disappointment with Nintendo in this process. This extends to Wiiware as well. So Nintendo IS responsible 100% for the VC. There is a considerable backlog of games that are done. rated and waiting for release.

@ Betagam7 - 1) This is the VC site, not the Wiiware site. 2) Alien Crush is basically a remake of a game that many people have already downloaded for less. that's not to say it's not a cool remake, and multiplayer options are welcome. But it is a remake, not an entirely new game. 3) Devil's Crush which has also been out for sometime is a better game than Alien Crush to begin with, which is saying something because I like Alien Crush. 4) Because Nintendo have decided to continue being asshats, many people's systems may NOT be able to download a Wiiware game... because there is no storage! 5) People didn't complain about the major Wii specific Disc-based game releases because they have the intelligence to understand that these games take YEARS to develop and are epic in scope. VC games are 8 and 16 bit games that have been done for, in some cases, decades and only require emulation. Minimal turnaround time, relatively speaking. That's comparing apples to... particle accelerators. They have no common ground to realistically be compared to one another.

@ WarioFan63 - It's a marginal game at best. I have fond memories of the arcade game, and I even remember having a moderately good time with the master system version, which I played to pass the time on my Game Gear with a Master Gear converter. It's just that it's a blah 8-bit conversion of an arcade game that owed much of it's success to it's 'wow' factor. And it's over in a flash with no replay value.

@The Fox - Another good point that I wanted to make but I was already writing a novel. Well said. In hard economic times, people cut back on entertainment. They don't go out as much and they tend to maximize their entertainment dollars with shopping bang for the buck and staying at home. It is also recommended that you treat yourself from time to time with little things. It helps keep your spirits up and helps curb 'emotional shopping' which can be damaging. How about a $5 -$10 GREAT game?

@ Betagam7 - How about 1 good game? That's what most people are saying. Because Nintendo sucks balls, no one has the space for 3-5 good games anyway. But why release crap? Is dropping crap on the VC 'maximizing profit'? All I would ever ask is 1 really good game. Maybe 2 every now and then. The reality of most of the business world is that 1) the customer is always right, 2) if you give the consumer what they want, they'll keep coming back, 3) build a good relationship with your customers; make them feel appreciated. Please tell me how releasing crap answers any of those. Please also keep in mind that the crash of the video game market back in the 80's happened because the market was flooded with BAD GAMES. THAT is flooding the market.

Nintendo: If you're hell bent on releasing a single Master System game, at least make it worth our while. Phantasy Star comes to mind. Or how about a good Master System game not previously released in the states. Ninja Gaiden, Master of Darkness, (an excellent 'Castlevania' homage), or even the Aladdin (completely different from any other version released, but an excellent 8-bit game). For that matter, Psycho Fox would have been preferable. So why not make us happy and release a quality game with some substance if you're going to release one. Oh that's right... you'd actually have to give a s***.

@deadly.by.design - So when you say artist, am I to infer from your tag that you are a graphic designer? I ask because I am a Graphic Designer/Artist myself And I too own many EWJ figures. Freakin' artists...

@ RadioShadow - Thanks for driving some of my points home with those links . I must say, in all fairness, that what we witness and hear is Shiny playing to the strengths of each system. And the warping water effect is present in the SNES version, it's just more subtle. What you see is actually several layers of scrolling backgrounds (parallax) one of which has a subtle warping effect. They try to create a sort of 'depth of field' effect. I think this is one place where it actually benefited the SNES version to be released second, as there is no reason the same combination of effects couldn't have been done on the Genesis. Case in point: The Thunderforce/Lightening force games and Gunstar Heros. The same warping affects were used in conjunction with multiple layers of parallax scrolling and many animated ship sprites, shots and explosions. Also note that a SNES version of these games with all of those effects applied would more likely than not have been plagued by LOADS of slowdown. People point to Yoshi's Island as proof that it ain't so as that game had an expanded color pallete and was LOADED with huge sprite, crazy effects and loads of parallax all at once with no slowdown. Guess what... that was a Super FX2 chip game and it would have never been possible without the chip... or load and loads of slowdown and sacrificed effects. Both systems had their strengths, and it was a smart developer that took the time to use them.

@Bass X0 - Hahaha - LOVE the Angry Gamer vids

@Bass X0 - Intestinal Distress (a level very near and dear to me for medical reasons - heh... I kid... sort of ) And there are varying reports as to the reason why, but it really doesn't matter as it doesn't change the fact that it's only on the Genesis

@ Nintendork - Sadly incorrect and misinformed. If you prefer the SNES version, that's one thing. The Genesis version is, based on the facts, the superior version. No room for fan boy comments that might put off people who have never played EWJ. If the sound bothers you, then that's 1 point for Nintendo. But the SNES version was a port stripped of an entire level and it shows.

Once again, I owned both. I got EWJ for the Genesis the day it came out. I got the SNES version a bit later used. I played through them both again. The Genesis version came out on top.

The worst version of the game on consoles, by the way, would have been the Master System version of the game! And since the Master System is represented on the VC, it's just one more reason your statement is a bit misinformed. Just sayin'

FYI - I got the Genesis version first because that was the version that came out first. Not because I'm a random Sega fan boy

@deadly.by.design - wow. I've never heard anyone have such a problem with the Z80 before. Have you play the streets of rage series? The Z80 does some things well, but it's true that it can't compare to Sony's custom sound pair (SPC700 and the DSP itself) in the SNES. I just can't see passing on a great game because of it. And how on earth do you play any of the NES games? Or TG 16? Those blew compared to the Genesis, yet the Genesis causes your ears to bleed. I agree that the SNES is FAR MORE pleasant to listen to. I love listening to Super Castlevania, and Chrono Trigger. Part of the joy of playing Secret of Mana is the soundtrack. But I wouldn't pass up the Phantasy Star games, the Shining games, or the Sonic series because the Z80 can't create the mellow tones of the SNES. I'm just saying... Just wondering out loud
ps. Just a fun tid bit. Do you know who developed the SPC700? Ken Kutaragi - Essentially the father of the Playstation (which as we all know began life as a CD add-on for the SNES). I love geeky trivia!

@ RadioShadow - Actually, it's 'redbook' audio - not MP3. 'Redbook' is the standard for CD audio and sets forth the audio specifications. The actual audio encoding itself is PCM. MP3 is an entirely different form of audio encoding, and features 'lossy' compression, meaning it's not going to be 'CD' quality (Although in some instances depending on the bit rate and audio equipment it can, at least to the casual listener, approach it). And the art used in the PC version was Genesis/Sega CD art. It WAS re-colored to take advantage of the larger color pallet. No need to be sorry Yeah... I'm a nerd

@ ALDAWGZ - Thanks - which is not to say of course that the SNES version was BAD. It was a great game as well. The Genesis owes it's advantage with EWJ 1 to the fact that it was developed for the Genesis first, along with the loving care and devotion of Shiny pushing the system to near it's limits. With EWJ 2, the systems were on even footing with the development team and it shows as the SNES version edges out the Sega version based on visuals and audio, but once again not on game play. Both were solid and control was tight enough on both versions that it came down to which controller you preferred to use. I still feel the Sega 6-button pad was the best 16-bit era controller, but that IS my opinion.

@The Fox - Good lord I hope not. If there is any justice in the world, it will never happen!

@ Jockolantern & deadly.by.design - Can't say that I hate anyone, but I certain don't understand the whole 'wait for the SNES version' attitude (The fact that it probably won't surface not withstanding). I own both and I have to say, as do many other people who have actually played both (including reviews I remember reading at the time), that the Genesis version is actually the superior of the 2 when they are taken as a whole. You can find cosmetic and aural differences that might sway you to the SNES version, but step back and look at the games as complete interactive experiences & the Genesis version comes out on top. The animation is smoother in many instances, the control tighter, and the extra content alone tips the scales.
I'm not falling into any 16-bit system wars, but I don't want anyone who hasn't experienced the games at all being put off by these subjective statements. Mine may also be opinion to a point, but I'm high-lighting points that have been made since the game was released.
The Sega CD version trumps all, for that matter... but while it would have been preferable, it wouldn't stop me from downloading it (if I didn't already have the cart!). I'm just sayin'...

@all - Sorry ... I feel lazy and you prolly won't get to read this as it's old. The tricks on the d pad are just awkward and because of the waggle-centric nature of their implementation are actually much better suited to the 'wheel', imho. In that way, all other control is hobbled by comparison. And online is broken as well. The 'friend' system is to racing friends online as 30 character passwords are to game saves: Annoying, archaic, and unintuitive. Why can't we (wii) just have gamer tags? Also, with all of the hacks now available for the online races (unlimited bullet bill, etc.) the game is useless to me. My friends and I race split screen in person because that's how we like it. For online, I like racing people I otherwise wouldn't get the chance to. But people with bad wi-fi connections or ppl who bail on races when losing sap the fun from that. Just my opinion.

@NESgamer - I assume you mean consumers, and while that may be true hard-core gamers still support the industry. I'd love to see the hard numbers but I've read casual comments from various company heads that put the difference at around 10 or more games purchased a year for 'core' gamers vs 2-5 for casual gamers. Add in the special edition game packages, multiple and sometimes specialized controllers, and fan service gear purchased for the big franchises and that is where the real money comes from. Think about the VC, (to stay somewhat on topic) where 'core' gamers are filling up their internal memory and have a huge start on their cards. I myself have close to 60 games on my VC and card. Casual gamers don't even begin to touch that sort of cash out-lay. And of course there are the multi-system owners which is overwhelmingly a 'core' gamer phenom. Most of those gamers buy multiple systems to play their favorite exclusives on each. Add that up. AT LEAST 5 major releases on each console each year that would fall into that category and right there you have 15 games. And the used game industry would collapse without the 'core' gamer.

So while casual gamers are en vogue right now, they are like tourists: They're helping fill Nintendo's pockets during the 'summer months', but it's the 'core' gamer that keeps the cash flowing during the long winters, if you get my analogy.

So that begs the question - why break a game for an audience that had never played the series before, or had 'played it at a friends house'? All crap AI, the team battle BS. Those could have been optional modes of play. So after grandma, and her knitting club were done laughing it up playing the neutered version, the core gamer in the house could rock the game the way the series was meant to be played! Then everyone is happy! I would have GLADLY waited until this fall for that to happen.

I have a new tradition since I began my boycott of VC games. My digital hunger strike, if you will (Ninty probably doesn't care, but I feel better). Every Monday I look at the downloads and then break out the corresponding cartridge to play on my not so virtual consoles . I have to admit to cheating a bit, though... I've been playing 'Mana' for a week now. I had no idea it was going to be released, but I was just craving a go. The music, in my opinion, bests some of the Final Fantasy scores, and the atmosphere the game creates is second only to Chrono Trigger. It certainly is not as vast a game as Chrono or other Square titles, but it is a sweet ride. And playing with a couple of friends is actually pretty cool! It's not massive, and it's not online, but it sure is fun to fight and explore together!

@That Guy from Faxanadu - I'm thinking that it must be Swedish thing, because my friends are crapping themselves with joy over it's release. Me? I'm going to fire up my SNES when I get home and lose myself in 'Mana' yet another day!

@Bass X0 - Well, cheap AI, last being first (the item thing), and the overall creation of a gaming scenario wherein you don't have to have any real skill to win. And the battle mode is a waste of disc space. Once again built for the casual gamers with no real skill or investment in the series. Forced teams? Relying on comp ai players for the win or loss? Might as well just sit back and let the computer play!

If these broken mechanics were offered up as optional casual modes, then it would have been perfectly acceptable. Bt they are not and I think Nintendo really got over on the momentum of the series and the name. If any other unknown racing game had been reviewed with these same game-play 'features', they would have been shredded by reviewers. A game where you can race a perfect race, and still come in second, third or even last?

Really?

So there's my 2 cents

And we are officially off topic in 3... 2... 1... He he

ps. The control is actually decent, considering the Wii wheel thingy. Taking away stunts to punish you for not playing the way they want you to... not converting to waggle mode... that is complete crap though. If I want to use a Wavebird or a classic controller, I shouldn't have one of the few advantages taken away. Know what I mean?

pps. The other side of the coin is that I actually applaud Nintendo for being savvy enough to reach out to an untapped market. That's great. Just include these 'casual' aspects as options. Don't force this down ALL of our throats, and don't 'dumb down' every freakin' franchise!

ppps. I am not someone who minds losing. That's not the issue. If I lose, I want to know that either 1) The other person was better than me or 2) I screwed up and I know what I did. Anything else is crap and unacceptable. We wouldn't let a game fills with cheap and unavoidable hits off the hook and this is the very same sort of thing.

The Sega CD version was far superior to all, but I can't believe people wouldn't download this because of sound quality. It's got more content, tighter controls (slightly, but this is a tough game and that could make the difference between completing it and coming close ) and it's kind of like complaining that Super Mario 3 doesn't sound as good as Super Mario World. Look which one is downloaded more often! There is some true evolution of the genre in the game-play as well. It's a great game with tons of personality, memorable characters and tongue in cheek levels that will may you smile.

@Starwolf_UK - Yikes. Hope that's cleared up for the US release! Sorry. I hope they fix it for your release as well. That way you could just trash this and download it fresh! No PAL border for us though. that's gotta bite. And I hear that a change in video mode could fix that for you, if Nintendo actually gave 2 F's to do it. Yeesh

@Waxxy - Wow. You are one angry, rabid little dude. I would say you best wear the fanboy label. Defending Nintendo til he bitter end, and going so far as to essentially cover your ears and shout 'La lalalalalalalalala I see your lips moving Nintendo but I can't hear you lalalalalala I don't hear you saying that we can't play from our cards lalalalalala I don't hear you and I'm going to lash out at everyone else because I'm in denial and a crying on the inside fanboy lalalalalalala.' Seriously. Every quote and every quote clarifying the previously misinterpreted quote says that Nintendo has indeed half-assed it again, and screwed us over after all this time, It's not just this site either. It's 99% of sites that report gaming news, and some that aren't strictly gaming sites. This site could have just stood by their initial report and passed the blame elsewhere later, but instead they did the right, responsible thing and corrected the article even though they knew the news would be unpopular. Lashing out, pre-judging people, stereo-typing people based on their passion or their employer? Please take a laxative, and do some deep-breathing exercises or something. Geez. It's video games... a hobby... remember? Get mad at Nintendo. They can't do the right thing to save themselves. The game designers and development studios rock, Nintendo Corporate blows. (Although I need to kick someone's sack for the broken Mario Kart Wii. Why'd ya break it Ninty? WHY?)

As bad as I feel not supporting one of my all-time favorite developers, I own the cartridge and prefer the 6 button Genesis pad's feel. In addition, I have pledged not to download any more VC games until Nintendo actually gives us a storage solution. The download to card option is an insult and makes it clear that they think we are all complete idiots. My last download (Mega Man 9 - had to support Capcom and the Wii had the best control options) finished off the Wii points that were sitting unused, and I'm done. Screw Nintendo. If Sega were to bring the 'Treasure Box' (Collection on PS2 released in Japan) to these shores, I'd support them in a heartbeat.

@Surgical Precision - Yeah - I knew about the internal flash, but I'm thinking that it will fill up incredibly fast with a variety of music, photo, chat, and browser apps. Not to mention ps3 and 360 - like themes and Mii crap. So what then? More swapping. Just sick of Nintendo always holding back so they can give up just one more crappy/passable update to their portable systems. I haven't been soaked for cash by N, but many have. I'm sure we'll get a DS VC, I'm just not sure it' worth it, especially considering as how most of the 'classic' games are plentiful and cheap, as are the systems. If they start releasing imports and rare games, I might bite.

They still haven't mentioned the size of the internal memory and I'm guessing 256 to save money, as Nintendo is the only company that is ALWAYS profitable on their hardware out of the gate. Even if it's an extra $2-5 a unit they save, Multiply that by Millions of units sold and you'll understand why Nintendo still has deep pockets while being sued by damn near everyone.

Sorry. Not happy with Nintendo. Not aimed at you in any way!

@x.SuperMario.x - Why be such an @ss? Jeez. We're talking about video games, not politics or religion!

Anywhooo... I like the idea of a DS VC, but if they won't let us play from the Wii SD Card, why would they let us do the same with the DS? I see the SD card being there primarily for pictures, music, downloadable content for DS games, DS apps, and the odd DS specific game. Not so much for emulation. Could it happen? Yes. It would just be a very peculiar move and yet another slap in the face for Wii owners, given the decisions to continue to make the VC game swap/storage as archaic, and inconvenient as possible (Pfft... storage solution my @ss!)

Just thinking out-loud. But seeing as nothing has been announced yet, and all of this DSVC talk is just speculation and wishful thinking, I thought I'd interject.