"That's Some Real Coward S***" - Hideki Kamiya Discusses The Fallout From The Bayonetta 3 Voiceover Controversy

I remember this! everyone, and I mean everyone on Twitter was at his throat. As for me I’m always a person to believe innocent until proven guilty. And when it turns out he was I didn’t see anyone saying sorry. Nothing but fake ppl lol

He's right. People jumped on the bandwagon with barely any evidence and then didn't even bother to apologize or admit they were wrong when it came out that Taylor was twisting the truth.

It was insufferable to be on social media during Bayonetta 3's launch because of this mess. The hivemind to boycott the game, Kamiya and Nintendo was ridiculous.

Twitter/X is such a toxic swamp tbf. I'm glad I deleted my account after a decade on there. This was in the pre-"X" and in the actual "twitter" days. Can't imagine what it is like now. Urgh!

Still can't believe someone would destroy their voice acting career just because they were salty they didn't get the (honestly unreasonable) amount of payment they asked for

Although I guess it wouldn't be the last time someone would ruin their voice acting career over stupid reasons (looking at Paimons former VA)

Voice actors really don't get paid enough though for the work they do. And they hardly if ever see residuals on their work, even for re-releases and future projects. Sadly Helena Taylor tried to extort the situation and really put a bad name for herself.

Im indifferent. It's not my place. I don't know the going-ons behind the scenes, etc. Was she pleasant to work with? A diva? Asking too much? Given too little? Etc. That's something they need to work out.

I remember when this happened on Twitter, alot of PS fans with agendas drove that campaign to Boycott Bayonetta. I was so hyped for Bayo 3 and people really tried to rain on the parade. it was sh*tty

They probably couldn't apologize since he's notoriously known for blocking people ... Let alone for speaking English and simple things like that .... Even if the message isn't meanspirited.

He's also went on childish rants and tangents himself....over a lot of stupid things

Oh yeah, that was the big talk surrounding this game. People canceling pre orders over it and such. Just want to say Bayonetta 3 is still the worst game in the series regardless who voiced her IMO. Still good though.

There were so many of those on the bandwagon in here. I remember one user said they were going to donate three copies worth of money to her charities, this person claimed to be a supporter of things those charities were against.

@TheExile285 tbh b3 was a mess entirely the controversies before . During development, Helena Taylor. The game itself story character and etc. The shipping wars with the anti woke crowd chiming in and being phobic using wholesome anaversary art (many of which didn't touch the game let alone the series.) viola and how she's handled as a new gen protagonist for the series. Retcons. And etc....alot of fans to the series were burned

And then kamiya and many ppl leaving platinum. Leaving the series in a limbo .. don't know where they can go moving forward with it.

@progx tbh it's also funny how a lot of lies and misinformation came up suddenly about Helena.... Because she followed one person or vaguely said something that got misconstrued.... And ppl ran with it because what she did to platinum.

Crazy how the whole situation changed so quickly. It's a shame it went as it did, Bayonetta's original VA was great. Havent finished 3 yet but will likely do so in the near future on Switch 2.

@VeganH she wanted more money. While I don’t remember how much they were gonna paid her it wasn’t anything less or bad at the time. Her head grew to big believing she was owned more and decided to jump on the bandwagon with the va issues at the time.

Pay disputes always sicken me. Either the actor is being greedy or thinks they're worth more money or the company they are working with is being cheap and refusing to pay what is rightfully owed. Same thing happened to Neve Campbell on the last Scream movie. They wanted to pay the young actors more than the original star and she dropped out.

I remember some youtubers deleting and privating videos after the truth came out. It was a clowny time.

@Woops that's because most of those people are like a lynch mob. As soon as you're caught in a controversy, they want you punished before they get all the facts. Which is pathetic.

I never really paid attention to this controversy when it happened. It just... wasn't really worth the controversy, in my opinion, as well as the fact that I wasn't on the internet as often at the time. The company just simply chose to hire a different voice actor. It's not like they had to use the old one. Pay disputes happen all the time. That's basically what a workers' union strike is. That's really all there is to it.

Clowns gonna clown.

Dude who called people insects frustrated that people piled up on him and didn't return to apologize (unrealistic expectations).

I remember when all of that was going down. And even when it was revealed people were being lied to by the VA, instead of apologizing to Kamiya, some people even tried to justify their harassment with crap like "well he was being rude anyway!" or "well he still handled it terribly"

It wasn't right no matter how you slice it and the way people handled it after the fact makes it clear that it was never about accountability, people just wanted outrage and to stroke their own egos

That’s why I like Kamiya. I don’t agree with him (most of the time) and would likely find him abrasive in person, but he tries to speak from what he knows and stands by it. I have (or least vaguely remember) seen him apologize if proven wrong but he usually explains why he feels a certain way and tries to ground his response in what he is seeing at the time.

Court of public opinion is an absolute circus now. Too many people try to argue from a position of authority/knowledge they don’t have. I had hoped in this information age arguments would become more factual and people would assess based on facts, but I obviously don’t understand most people.

(That being said not even Jennifer Hale, who is an instabuy for most games for me, could save the wreck of a story for 3. I don’t often feel “cheated” by a series as I usually just let the game be a game but this one turned me right off the franchise even if they do a reboot.)

He's not wrong. People are way too serious these days - especially the keyboard warriors and virtue signalers who can't help but to be personally offended by even the most routine business decisions.

@TrueBlueYoshi right! just to been seen as part of the group and all them likes and retweets

Ah, that situation. I remember not saying anything because I felt like what Helena was saying was coming across as somewhat coercive in matter. I remember people posting screenshots of their cancelled orders and feeling very proud about it. Then when the story got more clarification, people backtracked or doubled down on something else related.
It should be taken as an important lesson about not jumping to conclusions or seeing things in black and white. I would definitely chalk this up as one of a few times when the fan base were in the wrong.

For me, it ruined my enjoyment of the game.

@Lady_rosalina I mean she called out Billboards for Life, which doesn’t go to help women with pregnancies but yell at people on the highways. Then she admitted she lied about her contract negotiations too, the misinformation came from her.

Is this not a bit mad for Kamiya of all people to talk about online controversies and rants. Like I love his games but he’s known for being a massive diva too.

@LEGEND_MARIOID That's all social media. Reddit is arguably 10x worse. I mean, X has certainly has its issues, but it's at least a place where people with differing view points can express themselves without being overly concerned about being banned or silenced for saying the "wrong" thing.

By contrast, most of Reddit's subs have a diversity of opinion hovering at around zero, and BlueSky is no different - both are fine if you like hyper-censorious echo chambers, though, I suppose.

To be fair, though, staying disconnected from all social media as much as possible - including and especially X - is probably the best move a person can make these days, if only for the sake of preserving one's own mental health. Kamiya would probably do especially well in heeding that advice. He probably can't stay off of them completely for business reasons, but he could certainly set more limitations.

Since he blocks anyone who breathes on his twitter it's become a meme to do anything you can to get blocked by him, so he clearly knows he's grown a fanbase of haters on his own that's just how the internet works (and frankly I imagine he's only making it worse by saying this)

(Points mirror to Nintendolife comment section including self)
Guilty as charged.

I’m shocked to find out that people on social media were quick to jump to conclusions and be loud wrong without apologizing. It’s almost as if social media has a negative effect on reasonable people’s lives and only exists to give voice to those who should remain voiceless.

Believe me or not, I met Jennifer Hale the day after all of this - I figured out it was her based on me asking how she was doing and her responding "oh my God, there's been so much drama on Twitter about my work".

@Andy_Witmyer lol calling X a free speech platform 🤣

@progx might have a dig through the vaults in here to see who the most vocal posters are…(I doubt any usernames will shock me).

@bimmy-lee I think you might be into something mate.

Kamiya may not have screwed Hellena Taylor over (she did that to herself once it was known she lied and was associated with some pretty disgusting people) but he's still a bully, a hypocrite and a nasty person himself.
Also, a coward, he ruined his series with Bayonetta 3 and ran away back to Capcom.

@progx when I say missing information I'm saying the stuff ppl latched on saying she was racist which wasn't true. Calling her a terf and etc
Then saying she supported racist people. And was transphobic. She has donated to trans charities and gamers.

All originally over a fan asking her if Bayonetta would say "trans rights" and she replied she'd support anyone..while not trying to make things political.

The contract negotiations was it. But everything else was misinformation that ran rampant

What's sad about that situation was Kamiya came out straight from the jump and told the truth and nobody believed him ( he also probably set a block world record in that time span).

Glad the truth came out

Alot English Voice actor act very un proffesional way

@roy130390 - What’s up ole friend. I’m certain future societies will look back on the social media era of humanity in the same crazy way we view a time when people ate from lead plates & drank from lead cups. That ***** makes people crazy.

Sucks that a legitimate conversation around voice actor pay was disrupted by this unnecessary controversy

@JokerCK
Make sure to pay your proper respects to Kamiya-sama.

Critical thinking is dead on social media.

People enjoy a good pile-on, I suppose.

I've never cared for hate bandwagoning or big public outrage campaigns. Especially since, more often than not, people don't have all the facts.

What a time to be alive!

@Andy_Witmyer

Unfortunately I have to walk down an avenue.

As I said that is not the twitter I experienced that I was on for 10 years, mostly as an active user.. I witnessed A LOT of threats being made without people being banned. Yet some got suspended for using a swear word or criticising a certain government or country's military (I don't want to get into that discussion here). It was an immensely poorly managed and extremist dream echo chamber. An anti-social, private app. A real blight on society. It was getting worse year on year when I decided to pull the plug. Lord knows what it is like now. Thank heaven this site's comments sections are managed far, far better in comparison. I don't care to go onto reddit. Managing something in a basic way is not "hyper censorous". There are libel, defamation of character, anti-hate and slander laws in majority of countries.

There's something truly hilarious about the camera zooming in to Kamiya's face as the AI translator says in a very wimpy voice "don't make fun of me... 👉👈"

The guys so up his as he just assumes he’s right

A deleted comment doesn’t mean they take it back or think they are wrong. It can possible mean they don’t want it to remain on a public platform after they feel time passed for it to me notice. I dunno the guy seems a little meh.

This is what bothers me about the internet: when people are faced with a problem between individuals or companies, the first thing they say is a direct attack on one of the parties in the conflict, without even knowing the true reason for the conflict. Or, worse, they assume and use it as the truth (because sadly, half the world thinks what they say or is said on the internet is the absolute truth). And when, even after threatening one of the parties in the conflict, the real truth is discovered, no one takes responsibility for the atrocities reported on the internet, and they act as if nothing happened. How pathetic those who do that are...
And the saddest thing about all this is that, in the next conflict, these abuses are repeated, and many still say it as a joke: That's the drama of the internet, and it shouldn't be taken lightly (yes, of course, when the threats end up being true, that's the fun, right?)

Oh my...

He just got harassed by a group of idiots who thought because he was a studio head and Hellena Taylor was a VA and threw the accusation that she was in the right and Kamiya is wrong.

People are too quick to go on moral crusades for clout, pick the side they want to in 3 seconds based on hearsay or prejudice and then argue it out for days.

If they used half the time they spent arguing about it actually considering the situation they probably wouldn't have been trying to run the wrong person off the Internet and trying to destroy a game's reputation for no reason.

@LEGEND_MARIOID better than Blue Sky that's for sure. I was banned in 3 days for saying maybe people should have a choice if they want a covid booster.

The controversy was extremely stupid and I'm glad I was one of the few on here that was saying her story wasn't adding up. Before Platinum responded showed the receipts that they offered her well above her pay grade, before the hate campaign against Jennifer Hale, before Hellena Taylor admitted she lied and exposed she was a hard right winger playing the victim, before the boycott and hate campaign against the game which still colors a lot of people's view of the game. I based it on her saying the game franchise was worth $450,000,000. You would just have to have a slight bit of knowledge of the series to know how incredibly untrue that statement is. The infamously poorly selling, but critically acclaimed series was somehow actually a secret money maker when Platinum was on the brink of bankruptcy for a decade. But people just overlooked that really glaringly obvious lie. I know a lot of Gamerz just got on the hate train because it was a Nintendo exclusive and they were looking for any reason to publicly hate it since they were still mad about Bayo 2.

I looked at this guy once... somehow, I already knew I was blocked.

@Automated_Unit_4937 Disagree from what I've seen from 10 years use of tw*tter/X-crement

@Specters
Jennifer Hale being involved was also something that made Helena Taylor’s complaints very suspicious. Now I’m no expert on business or VA casting, but it’s definitely weird to undercut Helena Taylor and the hire a very popular, high demand, and probably more expensive VA like Hale

@VeganH she was replaced and she went online and said that Platinum was crappy to her and replaced her. Lots of people got up in arms at the injustice of this. Platinum then came out and said they offered her the same amount as before and she declined, asking for more. They said no, so she said no and they hired a different actor.

The internet was enraged because how could they possibly not just give a voice actor of all people more money?? How dare they! Voice actors are apparently the only important factor in the creation of any given character.

People then found out how much she was offered and asked for, demanded she be given an ever higher six figure sum for her work. She deserved it and royalties! She made Bayonetta with her voice!! Now obviously the character designers, 3D modellers, animators, programmers etc, etc did not deserve these too because A- they hadn't bothered to learn their names and B- they weren't a voice actor they had formed a parasocial relationship with.

Some more people searched about and found how she had previously bragged about how the last Bayo game took her I think 4 weeks to record the lines for. They then pointed out at this rate the offered pay was actually very reasonable and above comparative rates for much more in demand voice actors.

People still demanded that she deserved more and royalties. Basically her 4 weeks of work should have granted her a years wage and then she should get royalties on sales and retroactive ones on the past 2 games. Also Bayonetta 3, Kamiya, Platinum and Nintendo should all, ironically rather counter-actively for their royalties plea, be boycotted. Oh and in the meantime Jennifer Hale, the replacement voice actor was getting a torrent of hate online for accepting a job offer. That voice actor did not deserve the wage or royalties because...reasons?

Then after the two sides fought for a while others slowly uncovered that she had said some really heinous stuff on social media and proudly supported some, let's say questionable and very right-wing groups. I believe it also came out that she had done this sort of thing in the past and had a rep for lying and trying to rally internet fury. Then people supporting her promptly stopped and so did her career and nobody apologised for their rude behaviour or learnt any lessons.

I don't remember much about this but I do remember that lady misrepresented the situation completely and in the moment, I felt like SHE was the "bad" one in the situation

He's absolutely right about those cowards. A day doesn't pass without some artificial "controversy" where keyboard bullies step in with some half @**ed opinion, getting on one dumb hate bandwagon after another. Nintendo life looks out for it somewhat but Pushsquare moderation love this sorta thing and fosters it with countless articles that beat a dead horse with their phrasing. It's sickening.

Bayonetta 3 launched to widespread critical acclaim?

He’s 3 years too late and a bit too terminally online methinks, even if it was revealed that Taylor was making it up (and is a terrible person with terrible views nonetheless).

Mob mentality, always the toxics. Granted I've been there and know to feel vengeful and want things right. I know Helena really not only killed her own career but when she made her statements, other actors came forward and said what they were paid. After receipts were uncovered and her actual paycheck was shown, no doubt there was a consensus out there thinking "was this whole underpaid actor stuff a scam?", "This actor lied, were the others lying too?" Just one big mess. Reminds me of the Jussie Smollett hate crime hoax.

@SearchingS you don’t really see this type of behavior with VAs of any other language.

The mob massing and lynching a victim is a tale as old as time, regardless the time period. It's best to get off of social media as a whole.

I know this is a bit off topic, But I honestly hope we will some day learn about why and how Nintendo decided to replace Charles Martinet.

He is a professional and isn’t going to call out Nintendo… But he 100% wasnt on board with this decision.

@LEGEND_MARIOID facebook is even worse as well.

Hellena Taylor should never be allowed to work again. What a loathsome, petty and evil person she turned out to be.

Not sure what actually happened but she said she was only offered $4,000 total and the developer said she was offered $3,000 - $4,000 per session with a minimum of 5 sessions which worked out to $15,000. She also said that this was likely the last one that they wanted her to do, and that there were no plans for future titles.

@Dang_69 it’s got an 86 on Metacritic with 125 critic reviews, so yes, that’s critical acclaim.

@Fyrus92 I don’t think it matters too much. Someone up above mentioned fans exaggerating the importance of voice actors, and that sounds about right to me. It takes hundreds of people to make these games, and voice actors put in less work than the major majority of them.

I completely forgot about that VA fiasco. I hope I forget it again soon because I don’t like to give attention to a blatant controversy by an attention seeking lying VA. If there was a VA that ACTUALLY DESERVED to be blacklisted it would be her.

Pro Tip for life: A woman is not always in the right by default as much as this boggles Social Media. Women don’t get a free pass to smear someone’s name.

@LEGEND_MARIOID
A lot quieter from my perspective.

And yeah. I hate the way these things play out.
It's become a world where someone can be accused of something, and even their own decently close friends would consider jumping on their hides.

@cedarhyped Sure, But I used to praise the respect Japanese companies had for these people. I mean look at Dragon Ball for instance, these very same people have been allowed to voice these characters since the 80’s.

I just feel for the guy, because he really enjoyed being Mario.

Actually, I'd go a step further.

When insanity like this is thrown at you from every direction, it has the psychological effect of making you doubt your own convictions, and believing it as true yourself.

It's actually incredibly dangerous imo.

@Fyrus92
Honestly agreed.
I find it disturbing.

No hate to the new guy, but Charles Martinet had stated he would voice the character until he no longer could.

Idk if he really couldn't anymore, or if he really just decided to give someone new a chance in the spotlight, or, my own suspicion, Nintendo just axed him cause of some stupid reason to do with them "as a business".

I genuinely hate the evolution that happened after Iwata stopped pressing B.

Just another day on the internet. Always tickles me that people who use social media are surprised and upset by the behaviour of people who use social media.

This whole cancel culture is so bad, I really am glad I don't use social media. When I think back to my youth, 70's/80's and what would have been cancelled within society then. Wow I think if I even mentioned the type of subjects that would have been cancelled then my comment would get cancelled by nintendolife.
The same with regards to many commentors in the recent microsoft lay offs story, they say 'I will never buy anything microsoft again'. I mean I agree that it's probably not a good idea to go chucking money at them, but hang on you might be cutting your nose off to spite your face with that comment. Especially as it probably doesn't matter what you buy nowadays it's probalby stained with something that people wouldn't like. So your probably selling your soul to the devil no matter what you do.
I like the principles that people have more often but I hope they don't let it imapct themselves too much, because take it from an old person you probably will impact yourself far more than the person you are trying to do it too.

I remember at the time when it came out something with Hellena Taylor just seemed off to me. They wouldn't pay her what she thought they should've so replaced her with Jennifer Hale who's one of the most prolific va's. I doubt she got paid peanuts for that role. If they'd replaced her with an unknown i could've believed Taylor then. Also her digs and dragging Hale through the mud was a scummy thing to do.

@LEGEND_MARIOID you are far more likely to be banned on Bluesy these days than X, X almost anything goes now tbh. you have to be quite extreme to get a permanent-ban. I say this as someone who is on both and watch these things. Twitter/X is more of a mess, Bluesy is more of an echo chamber.

@GinMiguel yeah, it was a bit like the Jussie Smollett farce/hoax, but less extreme

@Smithicus Isn't that because it's a private app with a set of rules. If you posted what some do on X on Nintendo Life's forum, you'd have your comment deleted or maybe worse? It doesn't mean NL is an echo chamber. X is terribly regulated and has become a toxic monster. I don't care for social media that much any more as much as I used to tbf . I don't understand it when you say "watch these things" , by the way 😅

@LEGEND_MARIOID well no, I mean as someone who is not a Trump fan myself, I am not gonna lie and say Bluesy is quite impartial. it is not at all. In fact there are a lot of politically broken people there and they have a lot of rage, and I get that, but a lot of them have simply detached from reality, and are posting as much misinformation (those kind of fake quote things and fake newspaper cuttings) as you will find on X. Its just that X is overall still very politically diverse, where's with Bluesy its not so much about controlling disinformation (which X also hardly does at all), but about keeping it 'ideologically pure', so to speak. by 'watch these things' I simply mean watching the political dynamic as it plays out across both platforms (and others).

I was unfortunately one of those idiots that jumped on the bandwagon. I never tweeted Kamiya directly, but I was part of that fecal show. In the end I was just as wrong as everyone else, but to be fair, given his "I'm an A-hole lmfao" persona, he didn't make it hard to believe he'd screw over his own VAs.

After this controversy nobody will believe western voice actors again lol, backcthen everyone was so invested to right what is wrong, yet all of it is a lie by the VA.

And in this way social media promotes two very negative social habits, accusatory behavior and bandwagoning. I’ll never understand why so many people feel the need to throw their hat into a situation that they have no real knowledge of nor why they bandwagon to one side or the other. Unlike reality no one suffers any real consequence for being wrong or throwing out baseless accusations on social media and so the habit is reinforced. A gross by-product of social media.

@OwenGamer22 Not really unless you use said language.

I don't follow Mexican dub actors, but I know there's some controversy regarding the Latin American Spanish dub of Shrek 5, with Alfonso Obregón (Shrek's dub actor) demanding Dreamworks the same royalties as Mike Myers, or something to that extend.
At the same time, Eugenio Derbez (Donkey's dub actor) has said that Dreamworks wants him to nerf his dialogues to make them neutral Spanish. In the Latin American Spanish dub, Donkey uses a lot of Mexican expressions and forms of speaking, known as Mexicanismos.

This is not exclusive to Shrek, a lot of movies, cartoons or series dubbed in Mexico have Mexicanismos. Best examples in recent times would be Chowder and the first seasons of Adventure Time. Chowder even has the meme song "Quiero un mundo de michelada" in one episode, which was popular in Mexico in the late 2000s/early 2010s, I don't know how popular it was outside Mexico. My personal favorite is Captain Tsubasa and how Tsubasa/Oliver Atom was saved by the Guadalupe's Virgin in our dub.
These days, I believe the clients (the original production houses) demand dubs to be as neutral as possible.

However in Donkey's/Derbez's case, some people say he has the funniest dialogues in the movies due to the Mexicanismos, but I've read that the mastermind behind those dialogues was the late Gus Rodríguez. Yes, the same Gus Rodríguez who was heavily associated with Nintendo in Mexico in the 90s, one of the men behind the Mexican magazine Club Nintendo and regarded as one of the pioneers of gaming in Mexico and the whole Latin America.

Thankfully, neither Obregon nor Derbez have resorted to the tactics of Hellena Taylor, at least that I know.

Yknow the backlash actually helped the game sell oddly enough. The boycott backfired even though it and actually increased sales. Funny how that worked out and it continued for a while when the truth was revealed.

Hellena Taylor set the conversation about fair treatment of voice actors in the animation and game industries back several years with this stunt; hope she's proud of herself.

@OstianOwl If anything the SAG-AFTRA strike did more damage especially after certain union VA's were trying to flip games like Genshin & Hades 2.

Why you should always wait for the other side of the story. Helena's story never really sounded believable to me. But people immediately jumped to her defense. Did I like her as Bayonetta sure. But that won't cloud my judgement.

She also actively tried to hurt the sales of Bayonetta 3 as well. She even called for a boycott.

You can feel VA's should be paid more. And I wouldn't argue the point. I'd probably agree with you. But from what I remember reading Platinum had actually offered her above what was considered typical. She turned it down and lied by omission for sympathy.

A lot of people were left with egg on their face and felt foolish, betrayed, etc. And I have more sympathy for those people because their heart was in the right place and they were manipulated by someone who was self-serving.

At the end of the day? Jennifer Hale did a great job. My confidence in the future of the series or Platinum for that matter is kind of low atm.

@Dimjimmer calling someone an insect has a different meaning in Japanese(less harsh from what i could find)
he's not very proficient in English, which is why he doesn't like people addressing him in English and why he may not know how insulting it is to call someone an insect in English.

@TheExile285 Facts!!!

@cedarhyped surprised it got that score. The game is an absolute mess in everyway. Story is a mess, performance is a mess, gameplay is a mess due to the kajiu style creature control and the camera not working well, stage levels are meandering etc. thought that was the general consensus.

@Dang_69 Apparently not.