Random: The Pokémon Company Has No Issues With Nuzlocke Runs

If this is true then that's really really dumb of TPC. How is this even remotely close to a hack or whatever???

Of course that's the answer they would give an outsider fan though, God forbid the fans know their true statement on these matters.

They really do hate their player base

They really take issue with their games being even remotely challenging huh

I mean, Merrick's tweet makes it pretty clear this was a miscommunication.

I also assume that it's a misunderstanding.

Otherwise it's like saying "Doing a No-Death run in Super Mario Odyssey is like pirating the game and playing it on an emulator" and obviously no one thinks that

@KryptoniteKrunch Merrick is still an outsider, he may run a big fan site but at the end of the day it's still just that, a fan site. I wouldn't hold too much credit to what TPC told him, because they knew Merrick would post it for everyone to see so they had to say something that would make them look good. Nothing against Merrick of course, but that's just how it is.

Kit and Krysta were insiders who were under contract at the time, I'd believe their story more.

Self-imposed challenges should absolutely not be demonised by the developers, what the actual heck. You know how NIntendo made Zelda Heart Containers optional in all games post Link's Awakening? it's because self-imposed challenges are absolutely an important part of players enjoying games in their own way, beyond the "standard" designed experience, and Nintendo is fully aware of this.

Makes you wonder if the policy has changed since or if Kit and Krysta just ran into someone who got up off the wrong foot that day.😏

The whole uproar about this was beyond silly.

Oh boy, more of this nonsense.

This is almost guaranteed to be a miscommunication. The Pokemon Company almost certainly believed they were asking to use third party software for a nuzlocke run. Modified versions of the game exist for this purpose, and that absolutely is akin to a ROM hack.

Good grief, miscommunication happen WITHOUT language barriers all the time. Imagine how it is when 2 languages are as different as Japanese and English?

It probably was not a miscommunication imo. It's just a theory but based on how strict they are with mods and hacks, as they think it promotes piracy (maybe true?) ...but I think they probably view self imposed challenges like this as even a potential gateway drug type thing, where it may lead players to get into modding/hacking ROMs or playing them. Chest randomisers in Zelda and what not.

Remember Wood on YouTube was taken off the embassador program with no warning, likely due to his Zelda mods video.

They are over the top strict, that's Nintendo, as much as I love their games.

Can we stop sharing Kit and Krysta stuff now? They’re so dull.

Surely speed running is worse than this?

Shows how out of touch Nintendo and the pokemon company are with the fans.

This is why every single Pokemon game is braindead easy yet 90% of the hardcore fans are begging for a challenge

I’m not saying it’s not true, but it doesn’t seem to be the whole story either.

Oh, so now they were almost fired this time? I mean sure Nintendo and TPC can be... difficult, at times (although sometimes rightly so), but this just sounds too stupid to be a real thing, or it isn't the whole story.

Here’s my take, they probably view it same as hacking even recently but since the controversy blew up they had to quickly change their stance when Serebii ask them for an official statement to avoid backlash and tarnishing their reputation, like a typical corporate, so I believe Krysta and Kit more than Pokemon Company themselves.

@PessitheMystic Yeah, we see more Kit & Krysta here now then when they still worked for Nintendo. Sadly, this confirms to me that it's All About the Clicks.

@locky-mavo "or it isn't the whole story."

It absolutely never is the whole story. At least it's a single sided story. Also it might not have fit with the way The Pokémon Company wants to advertise their games. Which is a totally legit reason.

Could they've handled it better? Absolutely.

@Yosher Or the real story is somewhere in the middle. Kit and Krysta have never come off as anything but earnest. So I believe they're only relaying what they were told. It also can be true that what they were told was based on a false understanding of what a Nuzlocke is.

This is ridiculous to hear but not totally unbelievable considering how draconian Nintendo and Pokemon can be. A permadeath mode is not something the Pokemon Company would be comfortable advertising. Nor have they ever been supportive of the speedrunning community.

A family member has worked in Japan for decades for a variety of gaming companies (no not my uncle ;P). This totally tracks for the way Japanese company’s act and the horror stories I’ve heard.

Near-fatal miscommunication. It only further shows that Kit & Krysta leaving Nintendo seemed much more beneficial because they don't need to hide behind smiles anymore.

@KryptoniteKrunch Yes because Joe Merrick is absolutely someone we can trust.
Don't listen to him, he's known to follow TPC to a fault.

@Fizza Thank you. Important to read between the lines on this one. Not saying TPC are saints, but there is a deeper context this time.

Many creators studios (especially but not
all nor exclusively Japanese) are on "the creator is right" mindset. You either like the creation or not, but to those it's morally terrible to edit the creation or play it differently than intended

And nuzlocke with references to Pokemon being killed in battle will make them highly chill in reference to the young audience, so TPC is very likely to overreact

@UmbreonsPapa Of course, never said that couldn't be the case. Just saying that I'd believe an insider's story more than the word a fan received when asking for clarification is all.

For all we know it could all be a big misunderstanding, though. I HOPE that's the case, but I doubt we'll ever truly know the answer to that.

The issue probably isn't the Nuzlock rules. It's probably some people who do them stream or run from emulators rather than official sources.

WHAT IS A POKEMAN??

How many times have those two been wrong about something? I lost count already... seems like the only thing they have going for themselves is that they worked at nintendo which is pretty damn low if you ask me.

The Pokemon Company is unbelievable the level of lack of understanding of what their audience wants. This explains why the use of Game Engines so obsolete, instead of using something that favors the performance and graphics of the franchise. lol

Why does Nintendo hate everything fans do? They just don’t like any of it, and I just can’t understand it! To think that there fans are like there best friend and worst foe, why?

However, that would need to be true, and I’m not sure if it is, it’s just a wee to out there, even for Nintendo.

This really feels like not the full story. But, I think TPCi might also not like an official Nintendo channel doing a Nuzlocke because it is implied that you killed your Pokemon during the run (aka you release the Pokemon because they "died"). This would be a BIG no-no for TPCi because that is not what the game is supposed to be about and they've had accusations by organizations like PETA in the past that they were promoting animal fighting.

So, I think it was the fact Kit and Krysta worked for Nintendo at the time that made TPCi react the way they did. I don't think they overly care how you play Pokemon (provided you're not modding or using hacks), but rather don't want to endorse a specific image of the games to their young fanbase.

TL;DR this seems like a massive miscommunication and not actually how TPCi feels. They probably just don't want to endorse the idea that you're "killing" your Pokemon through an official Nintendo channel.

as it must be considered "dead"

The problem is probably this bit.

"While there's no doubt that Kit and Krysta's story is true,"

Um, there's a LOT of doubt the story is true. You got both sides of the story, and they contradict each other partially, so why are you saying this? I don't even think K&K are lying, but people misremember things ALL THE TIME.

This is the whole problem with this kind of finger-pointing reporting. Even for recent events, memory and perception can be wildly different for different people, so taking something like this as gospel is foolish.

I don’t know why you included the phrase “there's no doubt that Kit and Krysta's story is true”. They’re just two people who said something, and as far as I know, nobody has even made an attempt at verifying their claim.

@Wexter this seen a bit contidatory, since severals times in the anime/games, it show pokemon dying.

TPCi doesn't know about the fan community?

Yet Alolan Vulpix is the most ROM hack idea I've seen in an official game.

@Giancarlothomaz But, they don't die in battle. It is shown differently in an anime that provides context. In a Nuzlocke it is "your pokemon fainted therefore dead." While in the anime pokemon battle all the time and don't die.

I'm almost positive what happened is that whichever manager they were speaking to had no idea what a "Nuzlocke" was and hearing the word "lock" assumed it has something to do with glitching the game in order to cheat. Honestly that still shouldn't be something they ought to oppose, but it's at least believable that they would view that as akin to hacking. And in typical managerial fashion, it's likely any attempt to explain or clarify was quickly shut down (especially when losing ones job is being mentioned or implied). Of course it's possible that Kit and Krysta aren't accurately representing the exchange, but I certainly find it entirely plausible.

I think this was just miscommunication, and maybe even a little extra from Kit and Krysta. Players have been known to create challenges to games they have mastered just for fun, like RE4 with only a handgun or knife or any Zelda with just three hearts. We even got a game based on that principle, Super Mario Maker. I'm pretty sure the suits of the company didn't know the term Nuzlocke, didn't bother to investigate, and just said no.

I agree with various commenters, that the issue TPCI probably had is loose association with roms/mods, the misconception of what nuzlocke is, and like Wexter said, the loose idea of "killing" pokemon.

Also, one thing I notice a pattern for Kit, & Krysta. They were more in-tune with the fan communities, than approaching things from the official/corporate angle. I'm going to assume that most of these mishaps they had at Nintendo were mostly regular, everyday job hurdles. The Smash Bros. example, and this one prove on-the-job miscommunication is a hurdle with Nintendo, and specifically between Nintendo, and them while they were employed there. The counter point is that they could, and to some degree (sometimes small, sometimes large) likely are, embellishing these accounts of things that happened. They can only talk about so much, because they were only employees of Nintendo for an amount of time.

People here seem VERY quick to chalk this up to "miscommunication"

@jedisquidward People also seem VERY quick to chalk this up to "The Pokemon Company/Nintendo being out of touch"

The truth is most of the time somewhere in the middle.

@PessitheMystic What is it about them that has you feeling that they are dull?

@sanderev The reason that Kit & Krysta have more articles now than ever before is because they are now able to communicate about their experiences and provide information and insight about the things that happened at Nintendo that they couldn't talk about before.

@Wexter i know, but theres some building in the Pokémon generations that imply the pokémon die of severals ways, like the Pokémon Tower in Lavender Town that is a kinda of a burial ground/cemetery for pokémon, up until gen 5 we have this kinda of a tower dedicated for trainers to pay respect to pokemon recently decreased, also the severals ghost pokemon and it backstories/lore how it came to be.

I find it hard to believe thst TPC as a whole would not be familiar with the Nuzlocke challenge. The only plausible story I can think of on this one would be if one of those randomizers were suggested to be used for the challenge. Clearly miscommunication, though it's hard to tell from who's side.

Everyone's so preoccupied with the miscommunication (I'd say "misunderstanding" is the more appropriate term) over the proposed nuzlocke run, but nobody's talking about the bit where K&K were nearly fired? That's certainly the much more interesting story (or the bigger red flag) about how Nintendo views its employees imho.

@Troopage But why feature only Kit & Krysta's YT channel then? Because there are hundreds of channels like theirs.

Also it's already on YT, you can just watch it their and subscribe to their channel. There is no need for an article each time they upload a video.

And actually they posted a lot less about Nintendo minute here then they do now about their podcast.

sounds exactly how Game Freak and Nintendo would respond to fan requests. Hate and distaste because its not playing as the devs intended

Why exactly is Joe sticking his nose in?

Tho not exactly related, this reminds me that during a NM show, Kit talking about 3DS Virtual Console called the restore points "save states" so.... Kit definitely plays on unofficial emulators.

Maybe it’s time to make a harder difficulty option for Pokémon games. It’s not like the community has been asking for it for well over a decade….

@Giancarlothomaz I don't think you're understand my point. It's that you the player are not killing your pokemon or participating in "death battles" with your companions. In the anime, it's never Ash/Satoshi hurting pokemon or trying to cause harm to them as the core message is mutual respect. Nuzlockes despite being fun does on some level promote that level of thinking about pokemon being used in ways the Pokemon Company does not intend them to be used for.

I used to play some zelda games without collecting heart containers after boss fights. Or I tried several times to play botw with 0 deaths, starting from beginning if I died. Sad that corporate people just have no clue sometimes.

Sounds like no one was really listening to or understanding each other i.e. dismissive and/or a miscommunication/misunderstanding. It's unfortunate, but it happens a lot in corporate hierarchy's tbh. Companies need to learn to listen intently & in good faith and ask questions for better understanding before making quick decisions on things they don't quite get.

... Wun can only hope.

That's some serious "Dark Gary" levels of messed up, bros.

Speaking of ROMs, I'd certainly appreciate a little more coverage on Hamster's new Arcade Archives releases.

Nuzlocke Challenge sounds pretty cool, a good way to extend the life of a game, which may be an issue for some companies I suppose.

@KryptoniteKrunch or a course correct

This will never be anything other than a he-said-she-said...

As someone who has never liked Kit and Krysta's bits... I put slightly more stock into their side story though. I can see why The Pokemon Company would take issue with nuzzlockes, unfortunately...

Joe Merrick's tweet is worthless. Him regurgitating a statement from the Pokemon Company doesn't prove anything either. But perhaps he feels he must jump to his daddy's defense lest his large fansite be next on the chopping block one day.

While I don't agree that such a challenge is on the same level as a hack or a mod, I can at least understand why the idea would be shut down. Not only is the Nuzlocke challenge not in line with how The Pokemon Company intends for the games to be experienced, but also, if they validated the idea of the challenge and especially used the Nuzlocke name, it could quickly become a legal headache, one I'm certain the Pokemon Company could come out on top of, but one they'd also like to avoid entirely I'm sure.

Also, as an aside, while I do like what the Nuzlocke challenge is for Pokemon games, I really hate that name. Wish the challenge had a more descriptive name for the series, even if the name is less inspired like pro or expert run.

“While there's no doubt that Kit and Krysta's story is true”

Goes to show the kind of thought process (or lack there of) the goes through NLife.

@greengecko007 Well, of course their generic PR statement won't confirm it. I wouldn't be surprised if an official Nintendo channel did play the game in a way they didn't intend for it to be played.

I think that the people working with Nintendo for years have a little more credit than a PR statement in this case.

Companies are made up of many people. People make mistakes. People misunderstand. People miscommunicate. Things can get mistranslated.

This is all it was. Either someone misunderstood what the Nuzlocke run was, or miscommunicated the reason why they didn’t want it. Nintendo and TPC spend a lot of time and money curating their image, so it makes sense to me that they would not want to be presenting this difficult way to play in and official stream where it could be misconstrued as the core gameplay to the more casual. Especially as clips get taken out of context and such. I expect this was the reason but someone said the wrong thing or it got badly translated.

Hacks and Roms can also be misrepresentative of the core game, so they probably meant on this level it felt and equivalent.

Tried a Nuzlocke once, it was fun but it can get frustrating. The thing is you obviously can't have multiple saves on a Pokemon game, so when you've finished the game and completed the Pokedex you can't go back and do a Nuzlocke run unless you lose all that progress, and it isn't really worth it to me.

Your telling me we could of got rid of this pair sooner!

@greengecko007 pretty much everything Joe Merrick's tweets or says that isn't an already confirmed by TCP, GF or someone else thats actually official without it being some he-say-she-say thing like this should be taken with a grain of salt. joe goes a bit too hard at things and it has resulted in him putting his foot in his mouth more than a few times...

one should never really fully discredit a leak without proof that its fake and one should not ever fully trust that a leak is real.
another example...

similar to how it is with Joe, TCP and its affiliates tend to go a bit too hard enforcing their IP that has resulted in their word not being trusted in cases like this. there could have been a miscommunication, but there could have just as easily been someone trying to dictate how the games get played.

The severity of the response TPCI gave to Kit and Krysta sounds like miscommunication. (or perhaps more likely, a slip-up of one of the TPCI underlings speaking a bit too out of turn)

But I do believe Kit and Krysta when they say TPCI did not want them to feature nuzlocke on an official Nintendo channel. And for good reason, because it's exactly as @Ogbert says. (comment #73)

@Mando44646
Actually Game Freak seem pretty chill about and even supportive towards fan activities, but they aren't allowed to openly acknowledge/talk about them.

The response given to Merrick while somewhat vague says it all. TPCi don't care how anybody personally plays their own game, but as soon as its promoted in any way it becomes a "problem" because you're essentially encouraging others to break "the rules" too.

Being "almost fired" over it feels a bit melodramatic thought. The guy they spoke to might've just got a bit worked up.

Yeah they’re fine with fans and creators doing it, just not official Nintendo streams.

Am I the only one who has no idea who Kit and Krysta are? In any case I was not aware of this Nucklocke stuff. It may be interesting to try it. I guess you are still allowed to grind but sounds cool as a concept.

This kinda got blown out of proportion eh? Imagine that happening on the internet.

I've heard of Nuzlocke, but never played it. I always liken it to a LASO Run in Halo, or how people play Super Smash Bros. Melee on Stock, Final Destination only, with items off (although the latter example is supposed to make the game more fair, not less fair, relying on abilities alone, and not have any items give you an advantage).

But I can see why The Pokémon Company would refuse to endorse it. No, it is not a hack or a mod, but it is a play style that is not how the game was designed or meant to be played. And since The Pokémon Company and Nintendo strive to make games more accessible to people, endorsing fanmade game rules that make the games even more difficult undermines their own position on making said games more accessible. So I can see why they would refuse to allow a Nuzlocke run on an official livestream.

Threatening termination of employment goes a bit too far, though. And that's assuming they knew what a Nuzlocke run even was to begin with.

• While there's no doubt that Kit and Krysta's story is true

There is quite literally no evidence to back their claim in the first place, its a conversation that only they have claimed ever happened, it specifically is negative and hyperboled to the extreme, contradicts previous claims about the topic (them claiming that Nintendo compared Nuzlocke to ROM hacks contradicts the typical system of not even acknowledging ROM hacking), and has been discredited by prominent members of the community with a bigger focus on the topic (Joe Merrick for example), and by the Pokémon company themselves (who acknowledge it as a fanmade challenge that requires nothing more to add/affect on their part). A nothing story made by former disgruntled employees who haven't captured similar fame outside of the company, blown out of proportion by Nintendo sites with nothing better to write about.

Is Nuzlocke the name of a Pokémon or an area in one of the games?

@OorWullie Shockingly, the article may have the information you're looking for. Try looking directly below the Patterrz tweet.

@OorWullie

Nope, it's just a popular fan-made term that describes a specific style of challenge.

The term comes from an old internet comic where a let's-player decided to play Pokémon Ruby in "Hard Mode", with a self-imposed restricted ruleset where Pokémon are considered "dead" once fainted. The comic author decided to draw the scene of the "death" of his Nuzleaf by giving it the face of a character from the tv show Lost named Locke. Nuzleaf+Locke is how we got the name. It's a weird origin for sure.

Seems a bit tacky to reveal past private company communications, especially for an audience who lack nuance (twitter). And double especially when your old company have to issue statements over it.

This a disappointing trend I’ve been noticing with Kit and Krysta. For former Nintendo employees, which they’re not going to have any idea since they’re departures what’s happening in the company, but they’ve been making some really off the wall claims.

Best example I remember, they claimed there wasn’t going to be a Nintendo Direct at all in June. They were 100% sure too. While it wasn’t a general one, they did put out two that month: 3rd party mini (rather beefy one) and Xenoblade 3.

Anything that comes from them, I’d take with a huge grain of salt.

That couple of ex-nintendo employees are very very attention seekers

They left Nintendo.
To talk about Nintendo.

I do remember one of the fan games, Pokemon Uranium, that TPCi took down when they started their DMCA streak, had an option of Nuzlocke mode programmed in (as well as another option to change the storyline to something "mature" or something a little more in tone with official games).

Okay but this was from the pokemon company, wouldn't they also need Nintendo's okay with it as well?
Id be incline to believe 2 individuals more than 1 out of 2 companies.

ROMs aren't necessarily a bad thing either. It was the only way I could finally finish my copy of Ruby several years ago.
The cart had gone somehow defective but I could still dump its ROM and finish on emulator.

I think the main issue is that The Pokemon Company didn’t want to promote a way of playing the game where Pokémon “die” on an official Nintendo channel. It makes sense they wouldn’t have a problem with gamers doing it on their own if they choose to.

In twenty years maybe we'll see a Nuzlocke Mode - with customizable rules.

Still can't find info on this

Those two ex nintendo employees looks like attention seekers to me. Not good or bad just clic bait as a standard practice nowadays

@eltomo More specifically, their California branch of Nintendo was being relocated to Washington State, and they decided they didn't want to move, that they were happy in their current location. They would have been able to continue working on their series with Nintendo had they moved.

So while they left Nintendo to talk about Nintendo is correct, it's not entirely accurate. It's not like they decided to quit from Nintendo with no cause. They didn't want to relocate, and they know their own audience is primarily Nintendo fans. It makes sense to target that same audience now that they don't have to abide by Nintendo's policies.

This seems more like a miscommunication on what they were proposing when they pitched it to the Pokémon Company. And clearly they didn't get fired and worked for several more years at NOA after that.

What I really don't like about Kit and Krysta is that they could clear it all up if they wanted to but they aren't. They were intentionally vague. Gave a very controversial statement that even goes against the Pokémon Company's public statements before and after. Goes against that, as far as I know, the Pokémon Company haven't tried to stop others from doing it.

Still the controversy got them a ton of clicks and eyes on their podcast so I doubt they will give a more nuanced recollection of how it actually went down. Doubt we'll ever hear that 'yeah maybe they actually gave a ***** pitch' or whatever that is a more believable scenario. But I bet we can see more and more of this from Kit and Krysta.

@Crockin,

Well they hate a very niche part of their player base.

@johnvboy o I think Nintendo and TPC despise their entire audience. These companies consistently fail to recognize opportunities within their consumer base, and instead choose to punish them instead of facilitating what they want

@Crockin,

Well to be honest nobody really knows what the majority of Pokemon players want, what we do know is that the core minority hobby gamers want and expect more...then everyone else is sort of painted with the same brush, and it's assumed they want the same.

Perhaps the majority are quite happy with things as they are, but I guess we will bever really know either way, as the masses don't tend to post on gaming forums etc.

@EarthboundBenjy They are not. There's obviously some misunderstanding here.

And NLife blindly believed the former.