Random: Nintendo's Switch Online 'Expansion Pack' Trailer Is Now Its Most Disliked YouTube Video Ever

So a huge percentage out of the internet minorities that never liked the original service, do not like the new expansion or it's price, what a genuine shocker.

101 K views out of 90 million or so Switch consoles, so who knows how many people are really up in arms, or how many multiple accounts etc, are involved.

Technically Federation Force still has worse ratio.

Well deserved. The switch is my favourite system for its portability but Nintendo is just dreadful when it comes to online anything. Expansion pack is a horrible product and I think only fools bought it.

Because the price of one cup of coffee per month is "expensive" 🤨

@NRLPLSTCTY,

Balanced view as always on here.

@Clyde_Radcliffe,

So true.

And Nintendo didn't give a single damn.

Only if the sales reflect the negative reception of the product do they care and take action. If it still sells well, they're not gonna do squat to fix it.

@johnvboy 😉

I was skeptical at first especially after reading about the glitches. But me and three friends got a family plan and so we're all paying $20 a year. The other night me and some friends had a blast with Mario Kart 64 online. Sure it could be better but for now, I am pleased!

I thought the E3 2019 treehouse presentation of Pokemon SwSh was the most disliked video on Nintendos channel but appearently that one "only" has 90k dislikes

@johnvboy I dunno, I don't think the messaging is striking well with casuals either. This is totally anecdotal, When I went to play smash with my friends when Sora came out, I found out two had (without talking to each other) cancelled their NSO memberships because they though the whole service was rising to $50 and didn't realize it was optional.

At least the hardcore audience understands it's optional...

@Clyde_Radcliffe In that sense it's not expensive. But if you look at what the competition is doing, the value is far worse. With Nintendo you get a bunch of poorly running roms of games that are almost thirty years old, and that people have been subjected to many times before, while with playstation and xbox you get games that are relatively modern every month, that likely run a lot better. If Nintendo were following the competition they would release switch games onto the service, including some of their first party titles, and they would also fix their online. Since they aren't doing that it's only fair that consumers criticise them for making a service far inferior to their rivals for almost the same price.

Look, if you don’t subscribe to any other services and adore a couple old Nintendo 64 games and have no other way to play them and you have no other systems to play then maybe it’s a bad to mediocre value proposition. I’m good with Rare Replay and other collections already out there for super cheap and buying old stuff on Gamecube.

Since it's 40€ and not 50, like with dollars I will get it when more games are available.

@Abeedo exactly, you cant look at this service in a vacuum. It’s too dirty in there, har har. You have to consider the context around it.

I just want online only for less than half of the price instead of more acient games I do not care about for more than double the price.

My wife got excited seeing the Nintendo 64 "channel" go up and downloaded it. I waited on purpose for her to click on it and she saw the $80 price tag and said F--- That!. It's not worth it, to be honest, AND she had just pre-orderd the Animal Crossing DLC right before discovering that. Double whammy. I have a bar top Picade that can emulate Genesis games and a Genesis Mini, and any phone or PC can emulate N64 games just with a controller too. Just...yeah...maybe they should have added more games first.

The people outraged are also a small minority compared to the total Switch owners. Almost everyone I know who owns a Switch bought the NSO sub without hesitation.

While the value isn't there for me, I don't begrudge anyone else who does find it worthwhile. I can easily afford the extra expense, but I want some bang for my buck. Perhaps they'll add features that will entice me. Until then, that $30 is staying in my wallet.

How much money they make out of the Expansion Pack is the only measure. If many people buy it despite the dislikes, they won't be discouraged in the slightest, I'm afraid.

@Abeedo Those services are more expensive though and I heard Microsoft makes huge losses on GamePass. I'm not sure a games only company like Nintendo could afford that level of losses as they're a much smaller company than Microsoft or even Sony which make a lot of money elsewhere. Look at what happened to SEGA's hardware business, it's understandable Nintendo can't just emulate the business models of their competitors.

It's a poor quality product with the wrong price point.

@Yosher I don't know, Nintendo seemed to listen to feedback on Mario Party and Animal Crossing (eventually) despite huge sales of those games so they may be getting better in that sense. Regardless I don't know how well the expansion pack is gonna sell anyway. Do casual gamers actually care that much about N64 and Mega Drive? They're very old systems now. I am surprised Nintendo didn't go with GameBoy as I imagine the Pokemon games would go down well with a wider audience.

Congrats Nintendo - you earn’t it.

The lack of quality on display here is very disappointing coming from Ninty. The price wouldn’t be so much of a slap if the emulation wasn’t so utterly appalling.

I don’t want to rent a ***** emulator for the current asking price. It’s not their first day - they know consumer products and people demand quality for what they pay. It’s that simple.

@Clyde_Radcliffe Xbox Live Gold and PS+ are $10 more expensive than NSO + Expansion Pack but have massively more value at current.

@Jawessome The emulator is fine apart from Zelda Ocarina of Time which really does look ugly without the fog and the brightness turned up so much. I hope they patch it as the atmosphere is so important for that game. It's disheartening thinking of new players playing it in that state tbh.

I feel they could have only gotten away with this with the N64. It's the single most nostalgia blind console ever made. People will blindly buy anything N64 related despite how very few good games were on it and fewer still those that actually hold up today.

My only disappointment so far is OoT

@link3710,

90% conversion rate with my Switch friend list, and that's made up from Wii U friends, people on here, and even some longtime friends from the old Amazon gaming forums.

All you are really getting is 106 k core gamer opinions, not a wide enough sample size to make anything out of this.

@Clyde_Radcliffe A cup of coffee is 6$? What is it? Some super mega ultra rare brew or something? Dude, I can get a very large coffee from Tim Hortons for 4$ (that's like a dozen cups of coffee).

Sorry, but the value is f**ked. It's not worth it in the slightest.

You can always play N64 games with actual machine and cartridge since the games library is 100% complete including the mediocre / unpopular games.
If you don't want to rent N64 games with limited games choice from NSO, get the actual N64 machine and cartridges.

@Clyde_Radcliffe I guess you have a point but I still don't see them really listening too much here, if it actually sells enough for them to be happy. They'll probably just add more incentive to actually go for the expansion pack, but that could be stuff that was already planned anyway and they could pass it off as 'look, we totally listened to you all'.

The only time I really recall them listening to fan feedback on something that was overpriced was the 3DS when that first launched, and how they gave early buyers access to the embassador program for those NES and GBA games, because the system just wasn't selling very well at that time. So if the same happens here, they'll address it ASAP. If not, then, well, I just don't see it.

Would love to be proven wrong though and see that they still do care about their fans and don't just see them as walking cash cows.

@Lebon14 In my country the N64 expansion works out at around £3 a month which is price of a coffee in Starbucks and the other coffee shops.

@Anti-Matter That 100% more worth your money than paying for that sh**** subscription. At least, the games are yours after you paid for them once and you get the legit, as developper intended, experience.

@ivory_soul At the risk of upsetting some people, I believe the N64 is an overrated system that has aged poorly, even compared to it's peers of the generation which were the PS1 and Saturn.

I can go back and enjoy PS1 and Saturn games. I can't say the same for the N64.

@NRLPLSTCTY I bought it, and everytime I go to start a 64 game I’m like “ehh, not on the mood for this tonight” and start playing Dusk or Murder House - so it may be seasonal

@Yosher I don't see them reducing the price either. My guess is they will add some more impressive/in demand games sooner to try to improve good will and eventually add GB to the lineup. I am thinking GB/GBC in the standard NSO and GBA in the Premium.

Nope still not buying it. That $50 could be put towards a new game. Most of the time the only N64 game I revisit is Star Fox 64, and I have many ways to play Sega classics between the Sega Genesis Classics (which has online play too) and the Sonic collections.

$50 is a lot of money for some people, doing the math, it adds up over time as you keep subscribed. There is zero value for me in this. Also, when Switch Online is discontinued, you lose these games forever.

I rather buy one or two classics I love just to have access to them on newer hardware. Far cheaper than spending a large amount of money that adds up over time on a rental service where you don't keep the games you like.

I only pay the base $20/year service just to play online. I'm also a PC gamer, so you know I don't even like paying for it. I do it just to play online, especially with friends who don't play PC games.

@Anti-Matter Even as someone with Star Fox 64 on my Wii and Wii U, and the 3D remake, I still have my Star Fox 64 cart, and it still works to this day.

I bought the expansion pack just because I have never played any N64 or Sega Genesis games before (except Mario 64) and so far, the price is definitely not worth it. The Mario Kart 64 soundtrack cuts in and out when you are racing, all of the text is fuzzy in Ocarina of Time and Mario 64, and the controls are terrible. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I got the expansion pack, cuz' I've never played these games before. But I wish they worked better than they do right now.

@Caryslan Really, why so? N64 is 64 bit and had more impressive graphics. I think the controls are the thing that have probably aged the most in N64 games.

On a side note imagine if they'd added Sega Saturn instead of Mega Drive! That would've been so cool to be able to play all those lost gems like NiGHTS, Burning Rangers, Panzer Dragoon etc... maybe even the Sonic X-Treme prototype! (Okay, definitely dreaming too much now)

@Clyde_Radcliffe Yes, 35/39£ pounds is a "better" deal but it only is so because of money exchange rates. In the US, it's 50$US and Canada it's 65$CAD (plus tax and, in Quebec, that ends up at 75$). And, in a cup, I'm talking of a styrofoam cup. Would you pay 3£ for a styrofoam cup of coffee? Or even an old-school cup of coffee? No? Well, that's what Nintendo tries to make you gobble up.

Personally I don't own a N64 because in the UK they expensive now I just checked games like Mario Kart 64 is £30.99 that's nearly the price of the pass in UK for one game. I could save up but it be a very pricey buy. I don't mind having have this pass makes it easier for me but maybe I might pick one up.

@TryToBeHopeful I don't touch the L button

@Lebon14 Coffee shops here sell coffee at the same price regardless of if the cups are styrofoam or china. Had no idea it was different elsewhere!

I watched OOT without the fog, saw Deku Tree clearly in the background of Kokiri forest... I'm not interested with Expansion, going to wait for a bunch of other games to come out.

I think there's enough fuss that's been made for Nintendo to do something.

@Sunsy
I don't play N64 games LOL.
Gamecube, PS2 & XBOX games are my new standard for retro games from 2000's era.
PS1 games are the only Retro 90's games I still looking for, well... mostly 99% Japanese PS1 games since their games library are unique and made me intrigued.

@NintenAmy "Personally I don't own a N64 because in the UK they expensive now I just checked games like Mario Kart 64 is £30.99"

UK Paper Mario second hand sells for £350 on eBay. 😱 Pokemon Snap £175

@Lebon14 lol in what world does 50/12 = 6?

@Mauzuri since that’s 0.5% of the amount of people that purchased ACNH I don’t know if Nintendo considers it a “lot” of people

@Clyde_Radcliffe With all so many subscription services out there, one has to choose where to spend their cup(s) of coffee.

@Thrallherd yes and no - if we all buy it and say WHOA this sucks! that will get their attention also

@Clyde_Radcliffe I don’t think I could live with one less coffee though 😭

I wonder how many people who complained or disliked actually didn't buy the subscription. That's the important part, not paying for the things you don't like.

And fully deserved too! But it's Nintendo so nothing surprises me especially when it's comes to overpricing.

Good Nintendo are screwing us over with the NSO and we shouldn't stand for that

I love Nintendo, but I tend to agree with the dislikes for this video. Having to pay $50 a year for 25-year-old games with broken texture emulation and terrible online play is just a crime. This should have been an extra $10 at most. I know Nintendo doesn't want to devalue the price of their games by offering them for low prices, but the very least they could do is take some notes from other emulators on how to do it right and to drop that awful price tag.

@Gwynbleidd Sometimes I feel like the people that defend Nintendo are worried that someone is going to come and take away their switch if Nintendo suffers some backlash for a bad decision.

@Clyde_Radcliffe Yes but the fact remains that it really doesn't cost that much to rerelease n64 games, considering the fact that they're just roms that Nintendo has uploaded. As a consumer you have to support the best deal for yourself, not make excuses for the company. Nobody makes excuses for Nokia being worse than Samsung by saying, "It's not their fault their phones suck. They're a much smaller company." Nintendo is technically the richest company in Japan, so even if they're not as diversified as their competitors, they are able to invest in better online infrastructure, and can make this online expansion pack cheaper. Otherwise there's nothing stopping people from subscribing to superior services.

Peer Schneider at ign jokingly suggested that Nintendo hates piracy so much, whenever they encounter an expert at emulation they just kill them. There's truth to it in that they seem way more concerned with preserving their copyright than they are with preserving their actual, playable games.

In the past I've rolled my eyes at emulator-brained people who insist Nintendo re-releases should be as ambitious as the buggy, finicky community builds that run on gaming PCs. But I'm going to stop defending a company with Nintendo's resources and all the original code at their disposal. There's no way their emulation offerings should be as meager as this.

@Gerald That makes me so sad, honestly. OoT is one of the greatest games ever made. I played it countless times as a kid and I love it so much. It makes me so sad that some people are going to experience this game for the first time in its broken state with NSO.

@Anti-Matter Neat, I have a couple of other N64 games, and rebought a few I lost when moving on my Wii U (mainly Yoshi's Story and Super Mario 64, I use to have their carts).

My brother had the PlayStation in my family, and enjoyed them too.

Will say, I love how Sega keeps rereleasing classics in physical collections unlike Nintendo. Guess the old saying "Sega does what Nintendon't" still applies. I wish Nintendo would rerelease more classics in collections.

@TryToBeHopeful,

Or anybody is having any issues, or they are even being discussed on niche gaming sites in the first place, as usual it's like minded people speaking to each other.

I think one killer game is all it would take to turn many opinions around. Say, Goldeneye.

That said, I didn't think twice about the original NSO subscription, and I haven't bitten on this yet. I can emulate but I bought the classic systems (NES, SNES, Genesis and even an Atari one). I liked the hardware nostalgia to go along with the games. No N64 yet, and here it is, easy to play, but ... nope. Not hitting me right.

My other problem is that Goldeneye and Diddy Kong Racing are my two N64 essentials (beyond Ocarina) and they are not there.

@johnvboy I liked the original service for its price and what was offered. I don't think the new service offers enough to justify the price hike, especially when I don't care about the Sega Genesis games and I would speculate(although I can't confirm) that most people don't care either and would prefer GB/GBC/GBA games added to it. It is a Nintendo console after all.

I was actually looking forward to this until the price announcement, so I can say that at least when it comes to my opinion on the service you are objectively wrong.

If people don't like this but they subscribe anyway, then it's just useless whining. Nintendo think with finances, not with social media rants.

@B_Lindz,

It looks a lot cleaner, and the Wii U virtual consoles hazy look it thankfully gone, although some on here seem to want it back, and have rather conveniently overlooked that fact.

As a nintendo fan you should all give a like to that video, guys. Even if it’s a bad product, it doesn’t cost you anything to give unconditional support to the best console ever.

@Grumblevolcano I cant speak for playstation + as is, because I haven't had it for about 5 years, but I disagree with XBox Live Gold has more content. I mean, this may technically be true, but I think I've played 2 of the games I received through the service (Little Nightmares & Castlevania)

I've had NSO for less time, and I've invested way more hours into the SNES especially, it just appeals to me more. I guess the argument really depends om the person, but I get way more bang for my buck with NSO

@Pat_trick,

No it's subjective at best, you feel it's poor value, I do not.

£1.13 per week for the family plan is peanuts wherever you are.

@TryToBeHopeful Indeed, at least as a result, Sega's classics have many options across many different platforms, so as a result these games are widely available, including this expansion.

It's a great benefit for people who never had Sega hardware or just want to experience their classics.

@johnvboy Sorry, I wasn't clear to what I was referring. I meant regarding this sentence:

"So a huge percentage out of the internet minorities that never liked the original service, do not like the new expansion or it's price, what a genuine shocker. "
I'm an example that this is not necessarily the case.

@johnvboy Sure, it does look better than the WiiU's emulation, but NSO doesn't hold a candle to Project64's emulation capabilities. I think Nintendo really missed the mark on this one.

I've come around to see its value to some people, some people just plain love N64 games. I hate them so I projected a bit of that onto the announcement. For me, in the end, there's nothing there for me and that's fine. I mean don't even subscribe to "good" services like Gamepass, I don't play online or care about getting a bunch games dropped on me. But if you care about N64, more power to you, you don't have to listen to the haters.

Outside of nostalgia, early 3D games don’t hold up well. Someone once said “nostalgia is the death of hope”….

@NRLPLSTCTY I it's not horrible but the add on price of $30 is just ridiculous.

I don’t think Nintendo cares about that, they will probably stick to the plan

Nice, but unfortunately, we are no longer in the Wii U era where Nintendo needed to hold on to what customers they had. Not to mention, it wouldn't surprise me if more people joined groups for cheaper subscriptions; Nintendo won't care, they will still make more money.

I have long since accepted that Nintendo will never go back to free online or a VC service where you can buy and keep the games. Nonetheless, I have remained unsubscribed for the past few weeks and honestly? I am not missing the service.

@Clyde_Radcliffe I mean, I would personally be questioning why you are buying such an expensive coffee anyway, but there you go.

@TryToBeHopeful yes! Same as I was paying before.

Mario Kart 64 runs perfectly(imo) and all the SEGA games seem pretty flawlessly emulated.
The price increase has caused me to team up with friends and family and now what I pay annually is actually cheaper than before.

@TryToBeHopeful That might be my most played as well I actually started learning Japanese on purpose shortly after that

Honestly, I am having no problem with the games and am happy about the price, I give it a 10/10

@BlueMonk The only library I care about prior to the Gamecube/PS2 era is the SNES for this same reason.

@XBontendo I am actually the same way, I have gotten so many games through PlayStation Plus but I have probably only played a handful of them, I play what I am in the mood to play and typically the games they give away for the service aren't usually that.

With the Switch Online service I am much more likely to play Super Nintendo and N64 games so for me as well, there is way more value.

@link3710
Honestly, I'm "hardcore" and even I thought it was the new main price.
I had a Switch since day one and never got the Switch Online Service.
Mostly because I don't want to rent, I want to own, and also because internet here in Missouri is atrocious!

@johnvboy trying to ignore the problem doesn't solve it.

Aside from multiple people I know that think it is overpriced (but they are happy the regular €19.99 option is still there), I was more surprised how many parents I have had ask me "are there ways to get this cheaper, because I am not paying this much for something that gives less than GamePass".

But after explaining to them that this is optional and the old €19.99 option is still there, they were fine with that.

You talk about these 90mln like everybody had Switch Online, just don't.

Just like with Sony and Microsoft most people don't pay for the premium online experience, especially most parents I know prefer not to, unless you get "free recent games" like with game pass (they are not free, but try to explain most of these people that....)

And don't even make me start about the part were they do not understand why their kids can play Fortnite on PS4/Switch without "premium" online, but a game like FIFA requires it (because F2P games do not require Switch Online or PS+, paid games do)

Fact is €19.99 is a fine price for the Switch Online in my opinion, and while paying a little extra for N64/MD games makes sense, Nintendo shoot themself in the foot with the price (and don't say that is not the case, it is), most people that will get this really really want these games on the Switch, have too much money to waste or are just delusional and tell themself it is worth it for the price (also called fanboys).

I have the regular Switch sub, and I keep that one next year too unless Nintendo slashes the price of their "premium" offering.

For €19.99 the offering is solid enough for me, €39.99 is too much of the good, unless they add more extras like PS+/Xbox Live do.

However in my opinion even PS+ that offers MORE is overpriced, just to make that part clear.

As for gamepass, I hate renting games and that is what gamepass is, but my partner wanted it so we have it, the value is fine but again if it was up to me, we wouldn't have it at all.

People will still defend Nintendo as an infallible company at the end of the day lol. This "service" deserves every bit of criticism it has going its way.

Nintendo: Don't pirate our games
Nintendo: Releases subpar emulator
Fans: Downloads ROMs
Nintendo: Surprised Pikachu meme

Seriously though

@B_Lindz

Any unofficial N64 emulator is better than this crap

Not sure who’s coffee costs 4 or 5 bucks a pop, unless you are referring to a latte made by a professional. You know, a tangible product that includes a substance that enhances people’s productivity. I find value in being able to drive up to a coffee shop and buy a coffee to get me through my day. This? These are games that have already made money many years ago. It’s a digital good. Though I do admit, people who are complaining are going a bit overboard. It’s an overpriced service I personally have little interest in. No more, no less.

@electrolite77
I referred to his assumption that everyone that disliked the video wasn't satisfied with the original service. I was, therefore he is wrong about that statement.

Overall view - Needs a patch to fix a few issues. And reduce the price by 25% to make it more of a realistic long term investment.

• but on a scale of things the n64 games where £6.50 each on the old Eshops so based on extra features like online and the size of the catalog £18 per annum is logical.

I feel the launch just needed one big hitter like Golden eye, Diddy Kong racing, Perfect dark, DK 64. To really land successfully at launch with promises of the others to follow.

All I can say is: I don’t think it’s worth the extra 30$. I’d rather put that to a new game. But anything I can do to help keep Goldeneye from ever seeing the light of day again, I’ll do.

It’s important to try and give something back to society.

I do talk with my money, and Nintendo is not getting any extra out of me for the expansion pack. Dislikes don’t matter if people still purchased it and disliked the video.

Animal Crossing expansion aside (in which I haven’t played in over a year), I’m enjoying the small N64 library. for Genesis/Mega Drive, there are only a handful of titles I didn’t previously own either through Sega Ages or Genesis collection. I’m also baffled with Konami as they threw in both Castlevania and Contra but wouldn’t give the NES or SNES on line any love.

to conclude, I’m enjoying both libraries and I’ve yet to see any lag issues. still, the price of admission is pretty high

It is silly to excuse the service being terrible by saying it is "cheap". First of all it basically costs as much as the competition now and it doesn't even offer half the value. Regardless though "a price of a coffee every month" is not an excuse to offer a crappy service.

I can afford to throw 5$ in the bin every week, doesn't mean I will do it, because it is dumb, almost as dumb as paying for the expansion service.

Meh I bought it, having a good time with the N64 games. I don't have a PlayStation or Xbox so I don't have a point of comparison in terms of value proposition or anything. Sure the asking price is much higher than the base pack but it's still a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things. I'm content

Im paying 10$ bucks a year for nso plus the expansion since im on a full family plan. That is worth it.

@johnvboy ...did I say you were? All I said was that Nintendo's messaging has been muddled to the casual gamer.

All previous services enabled a purchase of classic games. Why are we forced to a service that has no value- we can buy Sega Genesis collection for one time fee and there are like 50games, and why can’t we purchase individual n64 games? If that happens, I will buy them again, just renting is not an option.

This uproar is good. I love Nintendo & we need to make sure the management don’t turn it into a company that fleeces it’s customers. Charging full price for games long after release I can get on board with as they value their IP & that’s their choice. But putting too little effort into their online service, retro stuff & being overly greedy should stop.

Well deserved.
Nintendo wins the award! 😂😂

Can’t see what all the fuss is about you pay if you want and don’t pay if you don’t.
I have chosen don’t pay there is nothing there for me to play as played the originals and I like new modern experiences.
Maybe if the best GameCube and Wii/Wii U titles appeared I might give it ago.

"Ahhaha. Ahh, that's hot." -Will Smith, Youtube Rewind 2018

Thinking about it, what you get for the extra money is worth it.

Unfortunately Nintendo is not adding anything to the base service that we’ve all already played through by now.

Federation Force is why you can't ever say that one game in a series is what killed an entire IP. Federation Force was so poorly received, and I doubt it sold well, but we've gotten two Metroid games since regardless, with another on the way eventually.

@Tinglemies Which is a shame. Federation Force is a genuinely good game! The timing of its release was always the real problem. I think people would appreciate it a lot more had it been released today and on the Switch.

I betcha 95% of the people who dislike the video actually bought the expansion pak. The expansion pak cost ten dollar less than a copy of Metroid Dread so those who are desperate to play some free old games would get into it.

Input lag, graphical errors, the inability to map controls to be as comfortable as they can be without the more ideal controller that is currently out of stock, or visual options like a CRT filter, and no N64 Memory Pak emulation.
It's no wonder people are upset; the emulation for NES/SNES was a lot less messy, and you paid less for them plus a few exclusive games and the ability to play online in the first place, which in itself is a necessity in this day and age. This new plan gives you a decent Genesis emulator that plays a whopping two games that weren't already available on Switch, possibly Nintendo's worst N64 emulator, and DLC (that you don't get to keep) for a game that not even half the people in the family plan I'm in give the slightest damn about, and while I acknowledge Animal Crossing is one of Nintendo's most successful games, anyone who doesn't have/care about the game isn't getting as much value here.
People initially questioned if NSO had enough value to warrant having to pay money to play online after a year of it being free, but then Nintendo started adding games like Tetris 99 or Super Kirby clash, and the subscription's value became more clear. They need to do that again for the Expansion Pack, because just adding more N64 games to an emulator that probably won't even run them well isn't going to cut it, not when the service they're charging more money for doesn't even include something as substantial as the system-wide ability to play online.

The next article could be how many effs Nintendo gives. As long as they’re getting enough subscribers to satisfy their financial goals for the service, they do… not… care how hated it is! I’ve been a massive Nintendo fan of 34 years, and it is always going to do what it feels is in it’s financial interest, regardless of backlash. Only thing I can do as a consumer is vote with my (in this case) closed wallet, and hope others do likewise.

@MS7000,

The U.S family plan is $79.99, which is $1.53 per week, not sure that buys you a coffee at Starbucks.

...and many bought he subscription service anyways.
Neat controllers could not explain all of that.

@Rayquaza2510,

But nobody is being forced into the expansion, if you feel the regular service is good value stick to that, and how many people come to you personally to ask advice is a drop in the ocean, and anecdotal at best.

I almost read the title wrong. The words "the" and "its" are so incredibly important with context, because I thought this video became the most disliked video on YouTube, not most disliked video on Nintendo's channel. Still, this is an all-time low.

@Specter_of-the_OLED,

Or have little to no interest at all in the service, and just like to review bomb things.

@johnvboy Of course, because a large group of people who have no interest in something are bound to have made an exception to their viewing habits in order to downvote it, and created multiple accounts to do so.
I don't really feel a need to sift through your comment history to see if, when something Nintendo did was met with positivity, you downplayed it in a similar fashion. Embarassing.

@link3710,

Seemed pretty simple explanation to me, but perhaps people have still misunderstood.

It should only take two hours of a work week to afford this service. People find ways to complain about everything

@WhiteUmbrella,

106 K is not all that many people in the grand scheme of things, and just goes to show how niche these videos in reality are, can't be bothered to search your history, nor would be that way inclined.

@mikegamer
Nintendo: I'm sorry.
Nintendo fans Kratos' voice: Do not be sorry. Be better.

@Grumblevolcano to me, xbox live and Ps Plus aren't more expensive. Firstly, I last bought two years of Ps Plus when it was on sale, probably around 40$ per year, although I don't remember exactly what I paid. Secondly, with only one subscription to Live or Ps Plus, anyone in your household can use the online features on the console, on a separate account. With Nintendo, this requires a "family subscription", which costs more even than Ps Plus and Live at full price.

I think I've given up on Nintendo. They are just so lazy and money driven these days. They never listen to their fans at all and half ass some of their own first party games.

@johnvboy The issue is many people don't listen to the explanation. They hear people complaining about NSO being $50 on social media, and assume that means the whole service.

Most casuals aren't going to watch the video announcement or follow Nintendo's twitter after all. They'll only hear what they see on their feeds.

@TryToBeHopeful Sure, and maybe they're not even aware of Youtube or even Facebook, but I think they must surely have heard of the internet.

@B_Lindz I also played this many times before on other systems. I still have the Cartridge. I have tried the NSO with the N64 Controller. I have not so much noticed the lag, it’s more the graphical glitches that bother me, it really does take away the shine & polish of the original. Mornings on Hyrule Field just aren’t the same.
Starfox and MarioKart look fantastic (the change of Fog doesn’t bother me with MarioKart, but for Zelda, it does)
It worries me on how Majora’s Mask will look

Meh, it’s easy to whine and express dissatisfaction over the internet. Fun too

I can't wait to hear the sales reports on it.

My problem is that you don't own the License to download those games. You are pretty much dependent on online to be working. I think this was a huge miss for Nintendo.

There are people that own these games 20 different ways and they would gladly buy again in order to have them on the Switch. Just make the online store again and put them there. In fact, keep the NSO and offer the store as well so people can try them out and if they like it then they can buy them.

@johnvboy if you ever argued that Nintendo getting upvoted on Youtube wasn't reflective of any real groundswell of opinion, wouldn't you remember? All you need do is point me to the post where you did that, and you'll prove me wrong. I'll wait.

If they actually fixed the online problems and stopped staggering the releases of games it would be ok, but the pricing is way off, its not like they are relatively new titles either, the fact they got rid of virtual console as well just rubs salt in that ever growing wound XD

Wow!

@WhiteUmbrella,

Not so sure I ever take YouTube likes or dislikes for that matter, as proof of acceptance or lack of, it's just so few people to ever be a fair representation of things.

@Gwynbleidd I both agree and disagree with this. If people are pirating games that are still sitting on store shelves, whether that's a physical store or digital store, then I think that that's absolutely wrong and is stealing from the publisher... but where it starts to get grey is when people emulate games that haven't generated revenue in literally decades from games that have been effectively discontinued by the game company. When Nintendo releases an online service like NSO to experience older games and generate revenue for themselves but then they release vastly inferior versions of the game that don't create the original experience, then would the NSO online version of the game be considered the same as ROM you can download and still have that original experience that isn't broken? If you go on eBay and buy a used discontinued game then the original publisher never sees a dime of that sale anyway.

Gaming as a medium is really new and weird in the grand scheme of forms of media. Books are either made digital, reprinted, or go into the public domain and can be read at basically any time. Movies and music move to streaming and the money is still going into the publisher's pockets. Games just fade with time if the publisher just doesn't re-release the games on current hardware.

What I think is going to get really crazy is when games start going into the public domain in about 30 or so years from now. Will just the characters and story go into the public domain or will the entire source code for the game? Will online distribution for those games become completely legal to distribute, download, and emulate? It's going to be crazy when that happens.

@link3710,

Not so sure all they hear is complaining, as in reality it's just not that many people, as for not understanding things, pretty sure the Online icon and e-shop should clear up some of the confusion.

Also the word expansion is a bit of a clue.

Bought cuz of dlc to ac and need of nso in general for saves etc. Nothing amazing in it but with as family-option nothing which should one regret.

I wouldn't have a problem with it if their online services weren't so bad.

@NRLPLSTCTY I'm having a blast playing all those genesis games in portable mode for 19€ a year. If that makes me a fool well..

@johnvboy With Clyde's original comment, I thought it was referring to an individual sub for the coffee comparison. Regarding the family sub, that is great, but then you have to go find a few other people to join your group, and arrange getting payments from the members of the group and it sounds like a lot of hassle for too little reward.

Get a job, kids, then you can afford the 20 bucks more a year.

I haven't had any issues,,,I guess I'm one of the small few

I’m actually very happy with the new service. Dr mario 64 is great! And looking forward to the new AC stuff

@johnvboy Metroid Prime: Federation Force was poorly received on Youtube. It also sold poorly in Japan and just about everywhere, so it seems a good correlation can be drawn between the downvotes it received and it's poor reception.

@MS7000,

Even the family membership is cheap for one person, when broken down weekly, the single membership should seem even cheaper.

Can’t wait when Nintendo announces they’re pleased with the Nintendo Expansion Pack subscriber numbers /s

@johnvboy Maybe. But I can at the very least say (as I did in my first post) I'm aware of multiple people who cancelled their subscription in confusion and I had to explain what was going on so they would get the base level back and I could play with them. I'm just curious how extensive that problem is.

Let's see if the people are really unhappy and so they DON'T pay for the service. Because complaining is useless if we still pay for it, you know...

@WhiteUmbrella,

Still not convinced it's fair representation of the wider Switch audience, and lets be honest, even the prime and 2D Metroid games were not massive sellers, so anybody thinking federation force was going to buck the trend and give the series the sales it had always deserved, was always going to be backing a losing horse.

@NRLPLSTCTY Y’all are so dramatic

@link3710,

Guess we will have to wait for Nintendo to give us some real sales figures, if they do that with the online service.

@man_rob You said "I can easily afford the extra expense, but I want some bang for my buck."

I really wish more people would understand this. You start talking about the new service, and you have either a. "You're obviously too poor to afford this" or b. "You're a shill!"

I'm with you. I can afford the extra surcharge if I want to sign up. But given that there's only like one or two games I genuinely want to play from the new catalog, I do not see paying $50 extra just to rent those two games worth the money spent. And I'm pretty sure I'll stop playing those games after a month.

@Clyde_Radcliffe Let's hope nintendo keeps increasing the price, and next time you can say "it's just the price of mcdonald's menu a month"... or even better "Its just the price of a nice bottle of wine a month"!

@NRLPLSTCTY for me, the family pack price comes at $0.6 dlls a month for the expansion pack…. So the only fools here are the ones who haven’t set up a group with their friends to have this cheap and awesome online service as a family pack for less than a dollar. 😆

With the AC DLC alone it is worth the price vs content for me.

@johnvboy Having reread your comments, my comments were regarding monthly as Clyde was saying monthly was the same as a cup of coffee.

Regarding weekly for family, it would be £1.15. Sure it is cheap. I don't feel comfortable paying it though. Even at 62p a week for individual, I still don't feel comfortable paying it. It is not about money; I would happily waste money on VC games if I knew I could keep them forever. But I don't see the point in constantly paying for something I won't use all the time, especially with the online being as terrible as it was when it was free.

Anything can be compared to overpriced coffee. For example, you could say 'gas isn't that expensive, a gallon is cheaper than a cup of coffee a day'.

@Jumping_Dead,

If it was the price of the whole Mcdonald's menu per month that would be a bit pricey, and still a way to go to get to that level, even on the family plan.

As to a nice bottle of wine, depends on your own perception of that.

Personally I have a a decent priced favorite.

https://www.vinatis.co.uk/39720-la-crau-de-ma-mere-vieilles-vignes-2018-vignobles-mayard

@johnvboy insert the typical excuse of "not being forced"

Not being forced is not the point, I could explain you why but I expect you to try dodging it again, just like you did with my previous comment.

Simple fact.

Any chance of Gamecube games being added to NSO in the next year?

@Clyde_Radcliffe

Well, others have the better Price for the Service they offer.

• Multiplayer works better on other Consoles
• Games offered are newer

The Emulation that Nintendo uses doesn't match Community made ones.
Sega Games can be purchased as Collections separate with better Functions.

It is a wrong Signal to just buy anything because its only a Cup of Coffee.

Nintendo acted much more Consumer friendly when they had to fight for their Audience.

Imo in the first Place i even don't understand why they need Money from us to set up a online Service, they take their Percentage from the Publishers.
Steam and Gog for Example give you the online Services for free, they are founding it buy that.

@MS7000,

I get that it's not all about the cost, but up to now I have had few issues with the online, and have enjoyed the retro games, I have like the more obscure stuff I would not have purchased otherwise.

I look at it as ups and downs, the original service got the SNES games added at no extra cost, whereas this time the N64 and Genesis stuff has a cost, throw in the Animal crossing expansion and it's a pretty decent deal imho.

The service as it is at the moment is not worth it to me. Add a dozen more N64 games and then I'm in.

@Don,

Could be added just like the SNES games were added free to the original service.

@yegs88,

Which looks like that may be the case, as data mines have pointed to 38 or so N64 games.

@Don Probably they come up with another expansion for that /s

Jokes aside, considering the GameCube had true analog triggers I expect them to try solve that in some way first, especially because not everyone is going to get a chance getting a wireless GC controller to begin with.

GC is on my list too, GBA is another one, but I doubt they will ever go that route to begin with, knowing Nintendo they see this expansion fail and instead of thinking about "why" they come up with "people have no interest"

Let's hope I am wrong on that last part, making this service better especially at such premium price is a must, but what worries me more are people using the added AC expansion as a "more value excuse".

I play AC but bought the expansion anyhow because I prefer to actualy own it instead of renting, but for people that do not play AC it has no value to them, but people keep using it as a excuse.

@NRLPLSTCTY Everyone on my family plan is having a good time, not a one of us feels foolish about it.

@link3710
I canceled my regular subscription as well, hopefully they get the message.

@johnvboy It's cool if you got your money's worth out of it, but I can't say I had great experiences with the online. All I remember is disconnecting in Splatoon 2 and Smash Ultimate. Funnily enough, I remember doing the same in Splatoon 1 and Smash 4 on Wii U. Ar least I didn't pay for it on Wii U.

This is also a personal problem, but the AC DLC doesn't interest me either as New Horizons did not hold my attention. It does not seem as good a deal if you don't have New Horizons or like it, not to mention that like everything else, you don't keep it once it expires (although I do hear that items can be kept if on your own island).

I’ll get it when they put paper mario on it, afterwards I’ll probably won’t renew it since I’ve played n64 games to death. Pm64 just holds a very special place in my nostalgia filled heart

@Rayquaza2510 Bingo... but Nintendo have been running this "service" for 3 years now. I would of thought if any money was being invested, we would see the benefits by now.

Edit: Looks like I replied to a ghost. =)

@Don Any chance of Gamecube games being added to NSO in the next year?

No, they don't add new systems that quickly, every new system has been added in September or October.

Please stop asking until next September.

@johnvboy 109k thousand people is a pretty wide sample. Most case studies and polls utilize samples of 2k-5k people, and those are considered large groups. The results from such case studies are almost always taken into account when the procedure was ethical/repeatable. If Nintendo was smart, they would listen to those people and improve the quality of the service to at least meet what free emulation does. This is a rare time that free emulation is actually better than original hardware.

I cant get over how many comments are here critiquing people's maths or debating the price of coffee.

The point is it's a **** service at an inflated price. Doesn't matter how "cheap" it works out to be, I won't be subscribing for excrement on my TV.

@Tott Exactly. It could be $10 a year and if it’s glitchy and broken then there’s no point in buying it. $50 is outrageous for broken emulation.

I've changed my mind on this subscription expansion a few times now - initially I thought it was pretty bad value for money, but I actually think it's fairly reasonable now.

I already own an n64 with all the games they're offering, so I won't be getting the expansion at this point in time. Having said all that, if you think about the cost per year and break it down - it's still cheap. The other main thing that people seem to be forgetting, is that Nintendo are almost certainly going to be putting more of these games on the subscription, so, as time goes on, it should eventually be great value for money (obviously if you don't care about those games don't get it - but for those of us who do, it's interesting to see what they add next).

The one real downside of the subscription that I've heard is the bugs/glitches in some of the games and apparently the lag is still bad for some games, hopefully they patch all that soon - but who knows.

If an ice cream parlor was selling two scoops on a waffle cone for $5 dollars and then started offering sprinkles for an extra $7.50, I can't imagine too many people rushing to pay for that let alone defend it. Do you really love sprinkles that much?

@Abeedo that is what it looks like on paper. The reality is the competition give access to triple a content which holds your attention for five minutes despite being "worth" £59.99 where as these old classic games can be enjoyed for hours and hours.

I mean, I'm enjoying my time with it: Ocarina of Time is as great as always, Sin & Punishment is really fun, etc.

But that's because the games themselves are good. The service is just alright. Ocarina of Time looks sharp, but the ambience fog is reduced and, well, the one thing the N64 original has over the 3DS remaster is the fog and dark atmosphere, so it's important to preserve that. (Also, only the N64 Zeldas have that particular vibe and mood. It's what makes them unique.)

Built-in button mapping is OK. It's logical enough. Sin & Punishment works well, for example. (Some of the "unplayable!" complaints were hugely misleading and frankly in bad faith.) However, you should have an in-app option for button remapping (and I mean besides the system-wide remapping you can do outside the app, which doesn't count).

Finally, there aren't any filter effects or much in the way of configuration options, as you would expect in nearly any retro release. Not sure why, say, a niche shmup like Greylancer recently got a more respectful treatment than friggin' Ocarina of Time. I had a lot of fun with Greylancer a few weeks ago, don't get me wrong. It's a cool game. But Ocarina of Time changed the medium. It needs a more reverential Sega Ages-style emulation. Get M2 on the case.

Federation Force was fantastic. Anyone who signed that embarrassingly childish petition to have that game cancelled should be black listed from ever being able to buy a Metroid game again.

They should do it like Sky TV and let customers choose which packages they want.

£9.00 per year for Cloud Saves + Online Play + 1 retro library.
£18.00 per year for Cloud Saves + Online Play + 2 retro libraries
£27.00 per year for Cloud Saves + Online Play + 3 retro libraries
£36.00 per year for Clous Saves + Online Play + 4 retro libraries

I'd have gone for the £18.00 per year for Cloud Saves + Online Play + SNES and N64 libraries, since I hardly play NES titles and I already have the Sega Classics Collection for Megadrive games. But whatever...

You gotta love how completely overblown and out of proportion this nonsense has become.
If a bunch of perfectly working N64 games for 3 bucks a month is the worst thing to ever happen in your life, you should be thankful.

Please stay angry.

Metroid Prime: Federation Force is arguably one of the most underrated games from Nintendo, if not their most. The game came out more than a year later from its announcement trailer, so its surge of dislikes had little to do with the final product. The current reaction to the expansion pass does actually deal directly with the released product, which just makes it being the most disliked video on their channel that much worse.

@Einherjar next to Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo has a lot of nerve thinking their service is worth $80. I dont think this is them believing in its quality, theye just wanna see how much they can get away with with n64 roms

Another pointless article feeding the fire

@BloodNinja,

Which is why polls are rarely accurate, as they sample a very narrow group of people, and this is pretty much guaranteed to attract core players, we need more data imho.

@iLikeUrAttitude,

Never, Nintendo life resemble that accusation.

The irony of Nintendo hating emulators yet charging monthly for a bad one

@Rayquaza2510,

People seem to act as if there is no option to all this, or at the very least suggest people do not understand there is one.

My view is simply different to yours, as I have no issue with the service, the argument seems to be just how many people are or should be enraged by all this, the article seems to indicate it's many, my issue is it's not the best way to judge, but who knows.

Complaining on the internet helps, but much more important, is not buying, complaining achieves nothing if people buy anyway.

A wise fat man said piracy is a problem of service, not price, this service is expensive, but they delivered a terrible service as well, legally, Nintendo has all the right to take down ROM websites, but morally, they are not in a position to complain if pirates deliver a much better service for free.

@TryToBeHopeful While it's not scientific, it's probably much more useful to the company as a form of feedback.

@johnvboy The service sucks for the price it costs, what more data do you need?

@victordamazio Why is there so much piracy on PC that studios that launch on Steam resort to Denuvo DRM?

Or is Steam bad service too?

@boxyguy Mind explaining to me who's forcing you to buy it? Who's making them "get away with it"?
Their online services still cost the same as before, which is under 2 bucks a month.
If you want, you can double that and expand the offered retro library...or you don't and stick with what you payed before...20 or nothing...

I still stand by it:
If this is such a massive problem be thankful that it exists, because your life seems rather mellow otherwise.

@Dr_Lugae A lot of people pay for games on PC thanks to a good service, if there's a free option, there will always be people getting for free, but Steam showed that people are willing to pay for their games instead of pirating if they get a better service than pirates offer, Netflix is also another proof.

This is why games that use Denuvo, get pirated more often since removing it, makes the games run better.

@TryToBeHopeful I'm not sure you're thinking this through enough. YouTube offers the potential for extremely high-profile, low cost advertising. These types of things have the potential to make or break a company's reputation, which will start to impact their bottom line. Nintendo knows for sure that their reputation is what sells their products, which is why they stick to console exclusivity. So, if people are justifiably disliking the video in droves, along with the service offering a broken experience against it's cost to the buyer, Nintendo would be wise to heed the signs. They can't rest on their laurels forever, and it doesn't take any form of degree to recognize that

Remember once again that people are not just complaining about the price, they are complaining about the terrible emulation that fans managed to figure out better than Nintendo.

A good emulator works in a way that if a new game gets made today, the emulator made before it does not have to be changed to run it, the Nintendo 64 is very hard to emulate, N64 emulation works by adjusting it for each game, however, fans are finally emulating the N64 properly but Nintendo can't do that.

@electrolite77
Well, it‘s your fault if you spend the money on it, isn‘t? If you think it‘s a rip-off, simply don‘t buy it, that‘s the point that you probably missed. If you‘re that much of an N64 or MegaDrive enthusiast you probably found a way to play these games years ago.
Nobody really needs this, they just want it. It seems to be a common thing of societey these days that everybody wants everything but they don‘t want to pay for it.

Also, Nintendo is a big reason to show why copyright laws need to be changed to make the duration of copyright go back to 50 years or less, and allow more orphan works to lose the copyright before the expiration date.

@victordamazio The wise fat man is indeed, wise. The statement about piracy being an issue of service, not price, is pretty much exactly on the nose. To add to it, even a service like GOG has no DRM on their releases, so clearly some companies aren't worried about piracy impacting their sales. Right now, there's just no beating the convenience that emulation provides, so Nintendo needs to step up their game. It's just not appealing.

@Einherjar While I see your humor behind the comment, I do think that some people are just genuinely disappointed with what Nintendo is offering.

For the people who claim those complaining are whiny and entitled:

• For starters, paying to play videogames online should not exist in the first place, there's nothing wrong with a subscription for advantages, but at least let us just play our games with friends and strangers for free.
• The original service was bad already, and we did not have enough NES and SNES games to make it up for it, other services by Sony and Microsoft offer much better and newer games.
• That means, just paying extra for more classic games is bad enough.
• Having just N64 games, Mega Drive games and Animal Crossing DLC on the service does not look good enough either.
• Then, came the price, too expensive for so little.
• And what kills all the excuses you have for everything above, poor emulation, even the fans are able to make better N64 emulators, there's no excuse for this, you paid for a premium service, you should get a premium service.

@TryToBeHopeful "it's likely that a game that gets a poor reception will have a poor youtube response, the other way around does not follow"

In the case of both Federation Force and the NSO online expansion, the youtube videos received a negative response on Youtube before release, which should be obvious, because the video were released before the products were. In the case of Federation Force, Nintendo had already disabled the ability to dislike it before the game even released.
Maybe you should think about what you're going to type, before actually hitting the reply button.

There's nothing wrong with the expansion pack service (well other than all the day one bugs and the fact that it's clear and intended did not have this product ready for lunch!!).

The price is fine. The problem is marketing. When they add a bunch more and 64 in Genesis games, as long as everything runs smoothly, it'll be fine. And presumably they'll eventually be adding GB and GBA to this as well.

The problem is they Don't announce their long-term plans for switch online and people tend to assume the worst. I guess I'll loads of people when switch online first came out assuming that it would be NES only and nothing else would be added, simply because Nintendo didn't say what their plans were. I've always assumed it'll be NES, SNES, N64, GB, and GBA. And now we have Genesis as a bonus. Since the thing was priced so low it's obvious all those weren't going to be offered at the original super low $20 price.

So $50 is not the problem. The problem is that this tier is 150% higher than the Nes/snes tier and we dont know for sure what they are going to do to make it worth that price jump vecause they don't tell their users what their plans are. We did recently get a data dump that suggests there's going to be like 38 and n64 games in like 52 Genesis games. Which is nice. But all Nintendo needs to do is say hey in 2022 we plan on releasing these X n64 games and X genesis games, along with more Nes and Snes, and we plan on adding Gb and GBA in 2023 (or whenever). Then people could at least be like okay in a year this service will be worth it for me or in 2 years the service will be worth it for me or in 6 months the service will be worth it for me.

I don't get how Nintendo doesn't think through any of this stuff. In some ways they are an amazing company, but in other ways they're just completely daft. It feels like they've got their C dev team and their C marketing team working on their online offerings. Literally just giving the fan base a schedule of their plans would fix this. And then it's up to their dev team to fix all the bugs in the expansion pack they just launched that wasn't ready.

@BloodNinja Yes, and like i said, i totally get that.
No amount of sugarcoating can cover that the online service alone, completely disregarding the other stuff, is absolutely lackluster.

I'm not trying to say that critique or even vocal disappointment is wrong. Far from it!
But for something optional that costs 20bucks a year to blow it up to be the worst thing ever is a bit much in my book.
That's really all i'm trying to say here ^^

I’d recommend it. Emulation is mostly good. Playing Zelda OoT on the Switch with suspend points is helping me to play through this wonderful classic. Definitely going to get a lot of playtime with current offering of N64/Genesis games and upcoming ones, not to mention the AC DLC.

Criticism is warranted, but way overblown. Best way to judge the service is to experience yourself. If you want to play these N64 games on the Switch for the convenience then I think it’s worth the asking price.

Well quite a price hike for something only gets few games every few months.

Sadly, this would be all the ammo Nintendo would need to scrap any future N64 inclusion should they restart their classic line up for the Switch successor.

N64 Mini? Yeah that ain't ever happening now.

@BloodNinja,

Thank you for your own personal subjective opinions. passed off as hard objective facts, I will take them under consideration.

If this were the Wii U era, this service would be amazing since they needed to get and keep customers.
They don't need to with Switch. It's very obvious that the entirety of NSO is now barely an afterthought for them.

While I am sure marketing will look at this in general, this currently has no impact on anything. Now if Nintendo interprets this as "consumers don't want NSO games or bundled DLC" then ok, however as of right now it just means, "internet people clicked a dislike button and rant in comments." Which is ultimately meaningless in and of itself.

Yea terrible this and that. Too expensive this and that.
I’ve never been without NSO lol. Counting all the years service, I think it’s 4 years now. I paid a total of 25 pounds. Bargain

@johnvboy Does Nintendo pay you by the hour? You have been at this for a while now friend. Nothing better to do on a Sunday?

@johnvboy LOL please, I’ve seen you post elsewhere, you can’t be a fanboy, right?

@Einherjar Indeed sir!

The Animal Crossing DLC inclusion reeks of Nintendo deciding the price before the content. As someone who doesn't own Animal Crossing, couldn't I drop the DLC to lower the price? Answer's sadly no.

@NRLPLSTCTY how is it horrible? You give your stance with nothing to back it up.

This thread taught me nothing can be seen as a ripoff as long as we break down its cost to annual coffee consumption.

@BloodNinja how does the service suck for the price paid exactly. You stating that is like me dying ps now sucks as well ( which it does). I would much rather pay for nintendos service ( which I have ) over anything playstation has offered.
The problem is people expect so much from Nintendo but nothing from companies like playstation. Why is it Nintendo gets more scrutiny? It’s because they are the most loved and respected ones of them all.

4,15 dollars a month is not too bad, but considering the original service costs only 2,15 a month If you choose the yearly plan, that's quite a increase for not much.

Also, don't forget you are not buying anything, so the moment you do not renew the subscription, you lose access to all the games.

I chose not to subscribe to the Expansion Pack.

@BloodNinja,

Not at all, I just do not see peoples issue with any of this, should I label you a hater because you simply disagree?, of course not, we both have our own subjective opinions about the online service, neither are concrete facts, and should not be presented as such.

One of my main issues with the expansion is it's far too early to judge, and there will be more games added which will give further value to the service, but as is it's pretty good, of course all the emulation may not be perfect if you put it under a microscope, but in all honesty I have noticed a massive improvement over the Wii U virtual console.

Ok, 100k dislikes on the ninty YouTube channel isn’t enough to give a realistic overview. Fair enough those voting there are chance to be more invested than your average switch user.
However, what about the many, many ‘influencers’ on YouTube that have expressed disappointment in it, themselves each having hundreds of thousands and sometimes millions of followers? These days many get their information and form decisions based purely on what their favourite YouTuber said, they carry great influence over the younger audiences. YouTube reviews and opinions are vital to Nintendo’s reputation.
Also, I’m really, really sick of people saying ‘It’s only the cost of a snickers every month, stop being cheap’.
It’s not a monthly payment, it’s an annual. End of. How much it costs per hour/minute/second is absolutely irrelevant for those who either don’t have the extra disposable income or the inclination to pay up front.

@johnvboy It’s just the right time to judge, since you can choose to pay or not pay, right now. If they repair the emulation, it might be worth it to someone.

@Dirty0814 Honestly, I game on PC so I never have to pay for online services in addition to my internet bill. I occasionally use the Switch when I’m out and about, so I wouldn’t be online even if I paid the price. Emulation has solved anything NSO offers, so if they want to ask money for a similar experience, they need to step up to their competition. Heck, spend $30 more and get an Anbernic device. You can put whatever games you like right into your pocket.

@MsJubilee,

I wish they would pay me, but not sure why people who do not agree with you, must either be a fanboy or sheep, seems a strange way to view things, perhaps I look at what services and games do include, not what they do not, a more positive outlook I guess.

@BloodNinja,

I honestly have seen few issues with the emulation side, however I am not an expert, but sometimes these slight issues are overblown.

@johnvboy Nintendolife posted a few articles describing the issues with N64 emulation so you can read up if you are so inclined.

@BloodNinja,

I read them, but do not notice the input lag in the slightest, also the presentation seems very clean to me, and the missing fog does not bother me as well, always thought this was more a limitation of the N64 hardware more than anything else, but an see why people want it included.

@johnvboy you again go back to the same excuse.
Even I start to wonder if someone is not paying you for all this on a Sunday....

@MS7000 I wonder myself where my comment went, wtf

@Rayquaza2510,

If that's want you want to believe then so be it, I simply do not feel the same way as you do, but we can't all like the same things etc etc..

@Clyde_Radcliffe those cups of coffee add up especially if you need to buy multiple per month

I really think Nintendo could have avoided the backlash by making it monthly. $3.75/mo doesn't have the ghastly appearance $45/yr to play Dynamite Heady.

When they drop the price, I hope the early adopters get a shiny certificate and a few game boy games to cheer them up.

@johnvboy Cope, either way it's objectively a sub-par service

If people.enjoy it more power to them but anyone who refuses to acknowledge any of the issues are flat out in denial

@johnvboy I can only speak in US dollars so convert at your own discretion, but my perspective is that this service is likely to run through the end of the OG Switch's lifespan as well as through the entire Super Switch's span, so we're looking at around 8 years at least. That's pushing $500 USD just for the privilege of playing whatever handful of really old games Nintendo decides to bestow you with a few times, until you're sick of them, and then at some point you will have to cancel your subscription and the games are gone. You can be very optimistic and hope that they will add nothing but great stuff from here on and maybe it will all be worth $500 to you in the end, or you can look at their support of NES and SNES up to this point as evidence that, well, they do have a history of dropping the ball. Regardless, approaching this with the credit card mentality of "eh it's just a couple bucks a month" is exactly how companies want you to think.

Why..does this make me smile?

@SpaceboyScreams Worst thing is, heard in places like Mexico it was like 5 dollars more expensive or something like that

@johnvboy Aight, so I've seen some cool comments of yours, but sometimes i feel like you're just looking for fights essentially and I'm not sure if it's trolling at this point

I don't tend to bother with down votes, my down vote is to not buy it. I hope they take note and offer something better to be honest. I still have lots of VC games I can play on my New 2DS XL for moment, but I miss the Virtual Console.

Really? I can think of worse videos, trailers and announcements from nintendo.

Speak with your wallet? Will see what happens...

You know, I never thought I'd say this, but this is one of those instances where mainstream media is right. Gamers are toxic and entitled.

Videos of children being abused? No.

Videos of animals being abused? No.

Getting free dlc and a library of n64 games for as little as 10 dollars a year-- well, I guess that makes Nintendo basically hitler. You all really need to re-evaluate your lives.

@johnvboy Agree or disagree; I don't care. But you have been at this since 5 AM. It seems you're just fighting for the sake of it.

Is this now the most disliked video on YouTube period?

Also let’s compare the dislikes to the subscribers.

I thought it was already bad enough that I'm wasting $25/year just to be able to save my ACNH island and gain access to designs, I won't touch this for $63.

Also Nintendo fans, please don't turn into Sony fanboys by always blindly defending Nintendo's BS.

I think what a lot of the Nintendo defenders aren't getting is that it isn't that people can't afford it or are being frugal or whatever. Could I pay $80 to get this? Yes. I coukd totally afford that. But is it worth that? Ah heck no. That isn't anywhere close to the right value. That'd be like saying that it's fine to spend $20 on a McDonald's coffee because in the long run, $20 isn't that much. That'd be ridiculous

Aaaand Nintendo could care less...smh

@zombi3wolf seriously. People defending this giant company.

@Kieroni is the expansion pack + AC DLC worth $0.6 dlls a month?

Sure it is for me.

@AugustusOxy Your caricatured world where people saying "this seems really expensive so Nintendo must be fascist" doesn't exist.

Also you forgot to mention other social harm/issue in your brief post, so I can safely assume you don't care about social harm/issue, guess mainstream media was right.

@WhiteUmbrella

Nintendo: "On sale"? What is that? Is that when you sell something for a limited time and then remove it from marketplaces? Oh yeah, we do "sales" too.

@SpaceboyScreams,

Everything will add up if you give it an eight year or so bill, would you like your Pizza or whatever fast food you like as much if you had to pay for the same time up front?.

@MsJubilee,

Not fighting, maybe that's your problem, you see this as a battle to win or lose, I see it as minor differences of opinion at best.

@Edwirichuu,

Liked your comment by the way.

Not looking for a fight, just fail to see why people feel this is so expensive, but still feel they are justified to their opinions, but as the service expansion has just launched it's far to early to write it off.

@johnvboy
Someone tried asking you before, but why is it far too early to write off, but not too early to defend?

@Clyde_Radcliffe the one cup of coffee is the dummest thing people use to justify anything! The frog gets boiled slowly and never even knows it until it’s too late. It’s just a cup of coffee. Let me bend over and take anything even crap cause hey y’all it’s just the cost of coffee!

@tedinthepaint,

Not defending it as there is no need to do so, people will either see value in it or not, as i have said I personally have little issue with it or the price, the selection of games plus the New Horizons content is more than worth it to me, if other people do not feel that way stick to the original plan, as the horizons DLC is also available as a one time purchase.

"Earlier this month, we reported on how Nintendo's Switch Online overview trailer for the new 'Expansion Pack' add-on (see above) was struggling to win over the masses"

Later this month, we're still associating social media points with the masses.

@ATaco "We" do sales? Ah so you're a Nintendo executive, come to answer the criticisms of the expansion? What a rare treat.
Well, Nintendo "sales" are never anywhere as deep as their competitors, and if the expansion were put on sale at half the current price, it would still be twice where it should be.

the biggest problem for me is just the lack of options. You must pay a yearly fee instead of shorter ones and you must buy the sega genesis and N64 games together. Add in the price spike just makes the entire expansion pack a rip off no matter how you look at it compared to other services. Now I got nothing against people who will still get it regardless of what price it is and hope those who do enjoy it

@zombi3wolf while I'm a Nintendo fan and a discouraged, critical, jaded Sony fan as well, I'm sad to say Nintendo fans were blind fanboys before Sony fans were. It's just that the current iteration of Sony fanboys are more noxious.

@Zach Holy crap, $20 a month?!?!

It is really a ripoff. First, consider there are actually a LOT of people who do not like or own ACNH, so being given the access to that DLC is horribly unfair to justify the high price tag. Secondly, most of those genesis games are already available on the budget priced genesis classics game on switch. Buy that and you own it forever instead of renting it on this service. Third, the tiny scraps of n64 games they made available are downright insulting for this price point. They say more is coming later, okay fine then how about you charge more for the service later instead of now, Nintendo? Why pay the full amount now for a half baked offering? Lastly, the n64 games should just be available for purchase instead of tying them to a poorly priced subscription that is not a people pleasing offering by a long shot. This train wreck of a concept undoubtedly had to come from Bowser himself. 😒

@johnvboy you are not defending it.

Like really you don't read your comments as is?

Ok I give up, I have seen enough from you, and considering your conclusion, don't even bother reading your own comments.

You ARE defending it the whole time here, and you REFUSE to acknowledge what people tell YOU is true.

Each to their own, but even if YOU like it doesn't mean it is GOOD.

Yet YOU defend it the whole time.

I mean nobody is holy here, even I have done stuff that was not worth doing in my life, but a least I have the guts to admit I was wrong.

Please tell me what this magical skill is to be beyond blind, I am not talking about liking the service now, I am talking about the fact you claim NOT TO THE DEFEND it but you CLEARLY DO IT AT ALL COST and plainly IGNORE everything others say.

Damn it must be really nice to live in a fully ignorant own made world, to a point you even ignore doing certain stuff yourself (claiming not to defend it while doing it all the time)

For my own sake I remember your name and start ignoring you next time, you are a lost cause at this point if you don't even see what you actually DO the whole day here.

My biggest quarrel is that they still have not improved the original NSO to an acceptable service. If they improved the service and then asked for $50, then maybe. However, the service remains FAR BELOW anything subpar, and all that is being added are some questionably emulated N64 and Genesis games and a DLC that I and many will never use. NSO is still bad and it's only excuse was that it was so cheap. Now it no longer has that excuse.

Also, I'm tired of Nintendo drip feeding legacy content.

@Kieroni The membership + expansion at £35 a year is a lot less than it'd cost to have even buy 1 of these games when they came out.

I find it hard to believe people could hold Nintendo's back catalogue in high regard. held up as "great games that stand the test of time". Still have no end of modern indie game developers attempting to emulate the gameplay of these classic games.

Yet when Nintendo actually tries to sell them, they suddenly should be worth next to nothing and are "bad value"? Doesn't add up.

@nhSnork
"Later this month, we're still associating social media points with the masses."
Exactly.

I pointed this out earlier, but the Pokemon Sword/Shield E3 2019 gameplay video, which was published right after the announcement that not all Pokemon would appear in the game, has 90,000 dislikes.

Sword/Shield has sold 21+ million copies.

@DocEggman haha I meant year

@johnvboy That's exactly right and in no way contradicts my argument lol that's why people who eat out all the time stay poor, it's another bad habit but less nefarious if you're paying with cash since at least then you see your bank account drop every time instead of paying off your credit card little by little and racking up interest.

there's something really funny in seeing console owners argue about the pricing of online gaming when you don't have to spend a dime for that on pc and games are also much cheaper sooner.

i never understand why anyone puts up with that, online gaming shouldn't cost you anything regardless of the platform.

as for the downvotes, it's deserved. it's a bad product poriod and nintendo doesn't even offer 1/3rd of the functionalities you have on ps and xbox

@tedinthepaint Because if he/she writes it off, they go against their own statement of defending it at all cost.

I could explain again why, but I guess a "certain user that has too much time defending this" would defend it again.

So simply put there are two ways to solve what Nintendo did here, give more content/extras for what they ask, or lower the price.

And for people that defend this, this is exactly what companies love, people that blindly defend it.

It reminds me of the smartphone market, people defend removal of headphone jack because they can use bluetooth, they defend removal of microsd card slot because they can buy a phone with more storage (for more money) and people defend the higher price because "it is still fair".

Smartphone market is just one example though, but the most clear example of how terribly it goes wrong when people blindly defend crap.

Owh and I forgot about removal of chargers, people that defended that part came too with a ton of excuses.

And what did we end up with now? Less for more, that's the smartphone market in a nutshell nowdays, and as a tech enthousiast it hurts me how "the defending user that defends all that crap in the first place" made it go that far.

Now we see the same with gaming, and as a gamer it hurts me again because the defenders don't care what they cause with their behaviour, they keep justifying what they do and because there are so many of them they change how companies act.

Which is that a company will make use of it, I just mentioned the smartphone example, but microtransactions do exist for the exact same reason.

This is so sad.

Nintendo doesn’t care about YouTube dislikes. They care about the extra revenue they are squeezing out of subscriptions from suckers who got input laggy emulations.

@Arawn93 now I don't have the service yet but I planned too how bad would you say the lag is

@fafonio And that's great, that's your money, but every single person in my family group and my brother's family group has been disappointed by the price and content, and neither of us have gotten it

@Yosher "If we ain't broke, don't fix it"

@Rayquaza2510 Sorry but those modern scummy business practices centre around and are caused by what you're demanding. Constant demand for lowered prices --> smaller and smaller margins on games --> more scummy practices to claw back money.

In gaming the most consumer friendly periods in the 3rd, 4th and 5th gens were exactly when the margins on each game sold was highest. The budgets and team sizes will have been much smaller but the profit margin much higher. Smaller developers could sustain themselves self-publishing and now they can't.

The higher the value of the game software is perceived, the more sustainable just selling games will and the less these companies will try to monetize. Or worse compromise their own products in order to monetize(Microtransactions/lootboxes) which is the equivalent of your mobile example.

What's sad is the idea an unsustainable model of lower and lower prices for the game software itself actually some kind of solution to the current problems in gaming. If anything the software prices should be higher, with lootboxes/microtransactions banned from games.

@Zach Oh thank god! Don't give Nintendo ideas!

@Jevarel Not true. I and many other people sunk in hours and hours into ps plus games like rocket league, fall guys, uncharted 1-4, The Last of Us, Bloodborne, The Bioshock Collection, Borderlands: The Handsome Collection, Star Wars Battlefront 2, Titanfall 2, the Batman Arkham games, Yakuza 0, etc. Whether you want to admit or not, you are getting crazy value as opposed to receiving the same old roms over and over again.

Time to continue to play totally official n64 games on my totally official N64 that just so happens to look similar to a laptop for some reason.

I don't get the complaints. If people don't like it they don't have to pay for it, you can still use the old tier just like always to get online without paying very much. This is like the equivalent of me complaining about Call of Duty, a series I have no interest in, I'll never play it but that doesn't mean I'll downvote it. Nobody is forcing me to play it so I've got nothing to dislike about it, I'll just play something else instead.

@Clyde_Radcliffe It's like paying the price of a donut for the worst coffee available in town, when every other coffee shop offers a free cup (of a quality coffee) if you order a donut.

See the difference?

@Nintendo_Thumb It would be fine if those games were a) performing well and b) available for purchase separately. There's no scenario where one person would walk away and stay cool with a $50/year subscription service failing to deliver the bare minimum of what you should expect from a paid emulator (specially considering free alternatives exist). What's wrong with asking them to fix a flawed product?

Overpriced and lazy. The Nintendo Formula

But don't you dare emulate better quality roms. Nintendo doesn't want that

I gotta admit, as much as I enjoy playing these games, I do wish that the emulation would have been on par as it should of been. This is the year 2021 after all. These types of issues shouldn't really exist for a company as treasured/historic as Nintendo. It just doesn't make sense considering how polished they used to be. They still make great games, I am just unsure of the Nintendo Seal of Quality sometimes.

And yet no matter how many enthusiasts dislike a YouTube video, there are still millions of casual gamers who will be too busy playing these games with their kids and partners for the first time to even notice and/or care. And I'm sure Nintendo, as much as all these headlines aren't positive, will just see them as further exposure for the product for casuals to buy it from. Any news, is good news.

I mean...Im not surprised

@rushiosan All games are free, emulator or not, you can't compare to free. You can get any new game for nothing on release day, compare that to the $60 or $70 they charge and of course it's a ripoff, everything is a ripoff compared to zero. I hardly think that any company is catering to the audience that refuses to spend money, this is a product for consumers.

All of those games are available elsewhere, they're old games, and they're cheaper than ever as part of the Switch online. Not only that, but they're better than what the competition has, because Nintendo doesn't make games for the competition, so if you're a fan of Nintendo games there's no comparison really. I've already played most of these, so it's not worth it to me, but someone who's never played Mario 64, Zelda, etc. it's definitely worth what they're charging. They're old, but they're not bad games. And if $50 is too much for someone, they could easily just not buy it. It's way better than what Sony is doing, charging $60 a year just to play online.

@Abeedo fair enough, that's your opinion. You obviously love your "triple A" games. That's your choice and I respect that. I don't however accept it as fact, just opinion. Same for me too to be fair.

It's worth noting that back in 2015 when the Federation Force trailer was released, Nintendo's YouTube channel had ~1.2 million subscribers.

Now, Nintendo's YouTube channel has 8.2 million subscribers. There are a lot more people engaging with Nintendo's YouTube content as a whole.

The Nintendo pseudo lawyers in this chat are trully something worth of studying. No one can defend this.

@Dpullam - What problems though? All that's been reported (as far as I know) are a few minor visual glitches and some minor cases of input lag. The worst thing I've seen so far is the lack of fog, which, sure, is a bit disappointing, but not exactly a deal breaker, so what exactly are you (and others) referring to here?.

And then foreigners go to the Japanese video to do the same. Why are they like this?

@Clyde_Radcliffe My thoughts: $50/year being "expensive" is subjective. I can afford it; but I still don't want to pay for it because I don't feel it's not a good value for the money. It's a rip-off, in the sense that it's an unfair exchange.

Among the people who can't afford the price, some of them may simply not have the funds to pay the $50 all at once. It sounds nice that it's "a cup of coffee per month", but I imagine that not many people like the idea of buying twelve cups in advance, in one shot.

Hilarious that people defend this.

@Clyde_Radcliffe I have a new service for you. It is the price of a cup of coffee a month. You give me money and I send you some good vibes. Do you like my deal? I mean it's so cheap right? I know that for the same price you could get a cup of coffee but I'm also promising that in the future I could send you more, but I am not saying what or when. I'll also allow you to access things using your own internet connection on your own hardware as a free bonus. Great value eh?

@B_Lindz I think my first time FINISHING OoT was on the GameCube port on my Wii, five years after I got the N64 game I just somehow didn't finish it among the endless backlog of games.
I don't know if that should be considered as criminal as NSO.

I own a NES Classic Edition and a SNES Classic Edition. I have to admit I haven't played with either. However when I recently signed up for NSO, I did start playing NES and SNES on the Switch. Mostly because of the online feature, which allows me to play childhood games with my friend on the other side of the world. But also because I don't have to connect a wired controller and I don't have to walk over to the mini console to press the reset button for any interactions.

So in the end, the service worked very well for me. If I had any interest in N64 games, I would have likely upgraded my NSO subscription.

I think the rub a lot of people have with this is how they are handling the ACNH DLC. Buy for $25, or rent it with the expansion. I love Nintendo, but that’s stupid and makes no sense.

@Doombario My favorite example of that is Super Mario Bros. DX for the GBC. People say the Japanese version had more content, so I don't know if that makes it better than the western version.
I don't know, but if I want to find out, pirating the JP version is the only way to get that particular version since, while I have a JP N3DS, Nintendo doesn't want the six bucks I could've given them if they listed it (it was some promotion exclusive thing there).
Even the original GBC release was effectively a download-only thing (towards special carts with protection to only allow official vending machines to write the game), and since the copy-protection on the old carts was broken a few years ago means no way to tell if existing flashed carts are "genuine" copies anymore.

Complaining about something not available being bootlegged.

@rushiosan it's more like getting a free cup of watery bad coffee, decaf when you wanted double shot, really old beans, alongside a bagel that you brought from home, in a Starbucks with no wifi, but you can stream your own internet from your phone, and yet there is some weird interference that makes it keep dropping out. They also give you a free refill for fanta, but you didn't order fanta and you don't want fanta, but it is part of the offer. You keep seeing people over the road with a nice ciabatta with brie and a stack of donuts. Their offer was $10 more a year, but they have sprinkles on their donuts and a nice tablecloth and seem to get full meals, rather than just pastries. Such a good analogy.

@Caryslan It's an unpopular opinion but I totally agree. I own 200 PS1 games and....wait for it...

5 N64 games. Umm...yeah. The PS1 literally wiped the floor with the N64, but everyone just remembers Zelda, Mario, or StarFox and forgot that nearly THE ENTIRE N64 LIBRARY WAS UTTER CRAP.

It's the only retro system I don't pursue much. I have a broken N64 and never bothered buying another or getting it fixed. I don't emulate the games either. It's the only system I think about and remember just how awful the games were outside of the main Nintendo ones. I still frequently pull out my Saturn and PS1 and play games weekly on them. A lot of them hold up well today.

@SpaceboyScreams,

Or can afford to eat out all the time, and at the end of the day people spend money on things they personally like, no right or wrong to any of this, and money spent is still going out of your bank whichever way you slice it, true credit cards can be more dangerous without control.

@Rayquaza2510,

Wow quite a tirade there, not sure it's required because I simply do not agree with you, you have your own view of the service which I understand but do not agree with, as you say no definitive right or wrong here, as it's all only subjective opinions at the end of the day.

Not sure why these trivial discussions of a $79.99 online service, which equates to only $1.53 per week for the full family plan should cause you so much angst, perhaps you need to step back from these discussions, as they seem to be causing you some distress.

I think on the whole we all need to move away from the whole attack defend labels for these things, as all we are doing is stating our own opinions of the situation, which may agree or disagree with the subject at hand or each other, not sure anybody ever changed each others minds on these comment sections.

Please feel free to put me on ignore if that's your choice, not sure it's the best way to handle simple differences of opinion, but at the end of the day it's up to you, have a nice day.

@ivory_soul,

You would be surprised by this on a Nintendo related site, but pretty sure quite a few people would echo your views on here.

waste of money to buy it and its lagging so much
can only buy 1 year thats is sucks
add gameboy and gameboy color and gba then its cheap
and remove error and lagging then a promise will pay for it.
but stupid to pay extra for it

@westman98,

Always the same on these niche forums, they will draw conclusions that support their own arguments, like the Metroid federation force reveal that got lots of dislikes, and say the game was always going to sell badly because of this, of course they totally ignore the fact the Metroid series have never been a massive seller.

Then of course with the Sword and shield situation their argument falls flat on it's face, so they do not use that particular example.

@fortius54,

Totally disagree, the Horizons DLC is perfect, a simple choice to either buy it outright or rent it with the expansion pack, choice has to be a good thing.

Now on the other hand if Nintendo had tied it to the expansion pack I would totally agree with you.

Nintendo yt video: 116K dislikes
Official Call of Duty®: Infinite Warfare Reveal Trailer yt video: 3.9M dislikes !!!!!
Nintendo it's not good enough!!!! You have to do it better to reach this accomplishment!

337 comments and counting, Nintendo Life sure knows how to judge it's audience with this one, all those clicks.....

@Clyde_Radcliffe

Better graphics is subjective. Both the PS1 and N64 had their graphical pros and cons.

The N64 could create larger worlds and put out way higher polygon counts. It also had a lot more system RAM to work with. Games like Banjo Kazooie would have been very difficult to program on the PlayStation, although it was possible (see Legacy of Kain as an example).

On the other hand, the N64 system ram was slow as molasses and its speciality ram (located near the CPU die) for super fast access was pathetically small. This led developers to have to work around it, which is why it wasn’t uncommon for textures to be stretched across the environments and even character models where possible. The N64 just didn’t have the fast memory it needed. Plus the cartridge media really hobbled it out the gate. Limited ROM meant that textures were horribly compressed.

The PS1’s geometry engine was a really weird design that suffered from texture warping. It’s that weird “shimmering” effect you see on a lot of PS1 games. It also lacked a Z buffer which caused PS1 developers headaches (the Saturn’s VDP didn’t have one either).

On the other hand, the PS1 had relatively fast system memory and a simpler to understand architecture compared to the nightmares that were the Saturn and N64. The CD format was a godsend. Yes loading times sucked but it allowed for far higher quality textures and assets, CD audio, FMVs, and extensive voice acting. To me, most PS1 games look and sound more pleasing than N64 games.

Plus it had a controller that wasn’t intended for mutants. I grew up with both and I never liked the N64 controller. That thing was some nonsense. The PS1 controllers were evolutions of the SNES controllers. Which was perfect since I was coming off of a SNES

Nice to know people aren't out of there mind, and That i'm not crazy!

I still am impressed with how Nintendo responded to criticisms that NSO was not worth the money... Creating an expansion pack that is 100 times worse! Now everyone is like "that expansion pack is expensive, I'll just get NSO, it is much better value". My mind is blown.

It was a overreaction on federation force, and it’s an overreaction here.
Not saying that it doesn’t deserve some measure of annoyance, but this just makes the viewers seem petty.

Not surprising, when there are some people that are outraged than nintendo doesn’t pay them to use the service.

Honestly, I kinda view it like those collection magazines you see in newsagents. The first issue is super cheap, comes with a cool model, but will presumably be sold below cost.

But pretty much any issue sold after the first one will be sold at a much higher price, which is how they earn their money.

I do hope the increase in price means improved servers in the long run though. If they are gonna charge more, I would expect an improvement.

In summary, much like anything somewhat annoying, the internet decides to blow it out of proportion and declare it the worst thing to happen since world war 2.

342 comments! People have opinions, and aren't keeping them to themselves! I've got the expansion pack and like it. I'd love if there was an option to boost the frame rate up to 60fps (Episode 1 Racer on Switch, and Doom 64, are amazingly good looking and playing games!), but I'll still play N64 games at crappy middle generation frame rate (in general I see frame rates as good before and after this generation, well, when things boosted up to 720p and higher things fell apart again...). Anyways, I love playing Dr Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Sin and Punishment, and MUSHA Aleste on my OLED Switch. So thank you to Nintendo for releasing this expansion pack!

@Denoloco you’d be surprised. There are loads of non defendable things that can be defended. And have been.

@johnvboy 337 comments, and more of them by you than anyone else. What a stunning lack of self-awareness.

Oh no!

Anyway…

@johnvboy "no wrong or right way to any of this" man you have to be very young if you've never heard of bad spending habits or taken into account how many people wind up in poverty because of their own bad monetary decisions. If you cancelled all of your little subscription services that you think you need to survive and invest the thousands of dollars you'd spend over a few years up front you would be a lot wealthier, that applies to the majority of gamers as statistically very few of us are above middle class. Even just instead of investing, you could spend that few hundred dollars this service would cost you on a legit N64 and more games than Nintendo would ever put on the service, and you could keep them forever and not have to wait and hope that Nintendo will even make them available to you.

@westman98 That sounds like a lot of sales and technically it is but it's actually a very disappointing number for the Pokemon company. They've never been so far behind Mario, Zelda and Animal Crossing before.

@SpaceboyScreams,

At the end of the day everyone has control over their own spending, some will make wise decisions some will not, but again a lot of this is very subjective as one persons waste of money can be another's necessity etc, and how many items or services do people really need, rather than want.

For me its the convenience of just having everything in one place, and nice as owning retro systems is, it's just a hassle imho.

@WhiteUmbrella,

Totally aware I have made more more than most, still does not detract from the dubious click bate nature of this rather misleading article, designed to somehow prove mass outrage of this service, based on 100k or so dislikes on a niche YouTube video. And as someone pointed out the Pokemon Sword and shield reveal video had lots of dislikes, did not seem to hinder it getting to 20 million sales or so.

I have commented more because I have replied to people like yourself, not that I have to justify my comments in anyway.

@johnvboy as others have noted, you run interference for Nintendo on any and all negativity like you're paid to, either that or you're just a fanatic. You're not alone of course, but others are happy to just state their own opinion and allow the natural balance of negativity and positivity to be a barometer of the general consensus. Not you, though. Do "internet minorities" have a particular skin colour, by the way? If I were you, I'd avoid using that term again. It makes you appear ... a certain way.

@WhiteUmbrella,

I use the term minorities because that is what they are, as their views rarely reflect the wider mass market, and wow, you are suggesting this is now a race issue, this is more your own twisted problem than mine I think.

And now people not agreeing with all this negativity are running interference or paid by Nintendo, rather than simply having a counter opinion, if that's what you choose to believe because it makes you feel better, then by all means carry on.

I guess Nintendo can charge what they like and the gamers can just refuse to purchase the expansion pack.

But if enough people moan about the price and still pay the asking price then Nintendo may just settle for less subscribers.

I won't pay the price, but if I did, my weekly game playing time would not increase, so I'd buy less games, maybe one less full priced Nintendo game a year.

@johnvboy Nintendo knows, by the amount of subscriptions already taken out. It will either be above or below their expectations.

I judge on 'value for money' rather than cost and although for me it's affordable, it's not good value. Some folks will have a 'must have' mentality and will pay whatever the price just to have something. They are Nintendo's best customer's.

@SpaceboyScreams
21+ million for Pokemon is massive - it's the best-selling Pokemon game in the past 20 years.

Just because it hasn't eclipsed Mario Kart or Animal Crossing doesn't make it a sales disappointment (especially considering that there will be multiple Pokemon games in Switch that will somewhat compete with one another and cut off each others legs).

I'm gonna get the + sub, because my kids and I all fell back in love with Animal Crossing recently and I am looking forward to playing some of the older games.

But I do feel the price is too high, and I hope this will be another Sonic the Movie moment where people got up in arms and they ultimately decided to change it for the better.

So either they lower the price or give us other perks. I hope they will take notice.

That said, I will still get it. I get my cups of coffee for free at work.

@zool,

Which we do not know, could be as you say above or below expectations.

I totally get why you do not feel it's worth it, which is why I guess Nintendo felt the need to make it an option.

@Moistnado That was brilliant

@johnvboy the option is good, I would be interested in playing the N64 games, but not the original pack, which I don't have.

The people all mad are the same people who refuse to go back to work & want more handouts, its not at all expensive, im sure nintendo will be heartbroken over the few thousand that are upset compare to the millions of us that have already bought it.

i'll probably bite, but not until there are more games. Banjo, wave race, f-zero, mario golf - then we're talking.

@TheRedComet And thus all the reasons you stated why the PS1 wiped the floor with the N64. Like I mentioned earlier, almost zero N64 games hold up today, but a vast majority of the PS1 games are very much playable and the variety is astonishing, even on Saturn. I have over 200 PS1 games and maybe 5 N64 games. People forget that nearly the entire library of the N64 was utter garbage.

@zool,

Totally agree with you on that, there should be an option to have the latest pack with the online and cloud saves, although three options could be more confusing.

@TryToBeHopeful,

Well they did contact me agreeing to pay a very small amount, typical Nintendo really, giving very little to it's loyal fans.

Yes I do like the way that some interpret a person just having a more positive view of a game or service, a troll, easily pleased or a defender.

Or the newest ones, and my personal favorites "Running interference" and "in Nintendo's pocket".

@SpaceboyScreams While what you're saying is OVERALL true, I highly doubt anyone is in poverty over subscriptions. Especially streaming or gaming-related. That's a bit of an over-exaggeration. I feel you're probably young yourself as you state "everyone who always eats out is poor" that's also not true at all. While it's not a WISE decision there are plenty of people who eat out a lot who are just fine financially. You're trying to tie a single action or spending habit to someone's entire living situation. I'm pretty well off myself and eat out more or less depending on what's going on in life. Some months I've spent $300 on eating out and some zero.

There are so many comments here because so many people place value differently. I'm positive a vast majority of people downvoting that video and complaining here are subscribed right now and just don't want to admit it. Nintendo knows that people will buy their stuff whether they like it or not. Nostalgia is a heavy drug and the N64 is the biggest pill of them all. People fall head over heels for that system even if they don't own a single gaming console outside of the Switch. "I remember playing Mario Kart as a kid one time and it was fun" and that's enough to sub.

Peopl are also judging to harshly here as some people think the value is justified which is totally fine. It's not your job to judge someone else for liking a product. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Vote with your wallet. It's just sick the amount of people attacking someone's character just for thinking a service is worth it to them whether it's over priced or not. We've ALL paid for over priced goods. $45 pizzas, $8 coffees, $300 video game systems, and maybe even a $200 collector's edition that some might think is garbage. It's all subjective.

@rushiosan I feel like I won at internet today.

Personally I love it and have no complaints, I even own an N64 with most these games on it, but that portable factor is too much to turn done. It's a few pounds a month. I don't drink, don't smoke, don't have any other subscription services bar PlayStation, so no issues with the price from me. Can't wait for the future line up of games too.

@johnvboy there are plenty of differing opinions expressed, just as there should be, but you're the only one spamming yours all over the chat like you're afraid that any opinion other than yours might be given any weight. It makes you seem insecure.

@WhiteUmbrella,

Feel free to have as many of your subjective opinions as you like, it will not make me lose any sleep.

@Gwynbleidd,

Totally fine fella, thanks for asking.

@johnvboy For what very little it is worth, I do not see your reactions as spam and so far you seem to have been more than clear about your opinion and intentions.

Not taking sides or anything, but I don't view your part in this discussion as bad. Don't really understand why many do.

@Clyde_Radcliffe
this may come as a shock to you but i consider 4+ dollars for a cup of coffee outrageously expensive too. more so if i were forced to buy 12 cups all at once >< but hey, its your money.

@TryToBeHopeful Iced Coffee ain't bad though...

@Daniel36,

Thanks for that, and I have always been pretty clear that I do not find the service or it's price lacking, of course this will not make some happy on here, but I can handle that.

@TryToBeHopeful,

Don't tell anyone though.

Open up Nintendolife, see the article, looks like the equivalent of review bombing. Angry nerds being angry again. See the amount of comments... ho hum yet another storm in a teacup! Still getting over SixtyDollarGate when Skyward Sword HD came out, what a dramatic couple of days that was.🙄

@ivory_soul

I agree. Most of it hasn’t held up.

I will say that multiplayer was much better on the N64 in general. There were a handful of gems that were just awesome to play with friends, like Star Fox.

But for single player experiences, it’s no contest. The PlayStation’s library was just top notch. I was a big JRPG nut so PlayStation was literally the place to play at that time, since it coincided with Square’s Golden Years.

I never owned a Saturn. I always wanted one but it was on its way out by the time I got around to it. I really wish I would have invested in it just from a collectors standpoint. Some of its gems look really fun to play.

Too bad Sega screwed it up by not bringing over more Japanese exclusive games.

The N64 NSO is garbage pretending to be gold. Avoid that *****.

@johnvboy just give in and be angry with them. Stop fighting it…pretend to be bothered. Feign disdain. 😀

@WiltonRoots,

I think the comments have pretty much run their course, but it was fun.

@johnvboy Funny though, ignored the site for a day or so and some massive drama seems to have unfolded in here, yet it made absolutely zero difference to my life. Mad how that works. It’s almost like….it’s not a big deal at all? I need to get into this Very Serious Gamer™️ mode to understand how bad this really is I suppose…

@WiltonRoots,

I think you do need to take this massive issue far more seriously, you just do not seem to care.

ok, so why??? It's not that bad, and Nintendo also doesn't deserve that. OK, it's overpriced, but...but...oh alright.

No, I would not give it the thumbs up.

I'm honestly not surprised. 30 more a year for 2game libraries I'm sure they'll abandon in less than a year like they did the NES/SNES is a pretty big ripoff. That and their online infrastructure is still horrid for playing with randoms in Smash, Mario Maker 2, etc.

Maybe if they included other first party DLCs like BOTW, XC2, etc. it would be better.

@WiltonRoots it's not just angry nerds, why insults others for critising nintendo for poor choices? Plenty of people have offered constructive criticism on the matter.

You have issues with people saying ANYTHING bad about nintendo, let's be honest here.

If anything it is you here who is angry, because there's plenty of people out there criticising objectively bad decisions from nintendo WITHOUT having to insult others.

The sad truth that I've learned after reading many comments from everyone on this topic, since the pricing was announced, is that those (like me) who don't like the expansion pack are a minority.

I suppose, that for any product, the more selective user base will almost always be a minority. I can only hope that the expansion pack will eventually offer something truly reasonable for the more selective NSW owners.

@Doktor-Mandrake I’ve seen thousands of dramas on this site over stuff, this is just another in a long line. I wish I could get angry but I just can’t as it’s just a leisure pursuit.
Me personally I would have liked them to split up the pack so I could choose MD or N64 (never really got on with the N64 - probably my least favourite console), so I’ll sit it out for the mo and see how it improves.

@NRLPLSTCTY
This fool bought the family plan because I can do math. I have 7 other friends and family members on my plan that play animal crossing so, 8*$25= $200. $200>$45 upgrade. And I get to play with n64 and genesis games as a bonus. Plus anything else they add to this plan will just be gravy at this point

Yay, I helped!

Didn't even entertain buying the OG NSO for more than a second or two, so not gonna be buying this either.

Back when I was testing various music streaming services, I was paying around $5 a month for Tidal alongside Spotify, but I stopped since Spotify has more of the music I wanted. I guess judging by many of the defenders in here I should have kept paying since its only $5 a month as much as a large cup of fancy coffee? I mean, low price justifies anything, low quality, wonky execution or even not needing the service.

@zombi3wolf I'm pretty sure it's much too late for that since Nintendo fanboys are the OG blind fanboys.

Cya
Raziel-chan

@WiltonRoots Again this obsession with anger lol you don't have to be angry to crititize a product.

The wii VC console had better emulation as did that zelda game on game cube, the wii u had worse emulation and now the switch has worse emulation then that

Over the past 10 years their emulation has be getting worse, they use to tailor the emulator per-game they're now trying to do a "one size fits all" ordeal hence the issues in the first place

It's lazy. And that's not opinion.

@WiltonRoots Personally I like the N64, still have mine hooked up to a crt and loose carts are still somewhat affordable unless it's conker or something

The only thing that appealed to me with the sub was the idea of online mp but even that isn't up to snuff. I'll wait for them to patch things (if they ever do) while early adopters carry on being ripped off

i feel like if they just lower the price to 35 dollars or something, that would be a whole lot better. or they could just make online free, make virtual console come back, and have the NES, SNES, N64, and Genesis online apps be the actual subscription, and users would have to decide "hm, do i wanna spend 5 bucks on one NES game? or 10 bucks a year all of them?" am i just dumb or something or would nintendo make MORE money this way?

@johnvboy I don’t disagree that it’s great to have it available to but separate. However, they should have had a stand alone price for the N64 and Genesis. As it stands, you are either renting the DLC and N64/Genesis; paying for DLC on its own. That is a terrible set of choices and most everyone agrees with that.

I think they want to give the most simple choices, and we do not know how much the Animal crossing DLC is affecting the price, if at all, but pretty sure there will be an impact.

The main reason Nintendo have bundled it with the expansion pack is there are around 36 million people with the game, probably more after the busy holiday period, and this is sure to push the take up of the extended online service.

I am not sure it's most people feel the choices are bad, I would say it's true of the YouTube video watchers and gaming forums, but we do not have the data to see how the more mass market feel about all this.

@WiltonRoots,

Get it bought, it's not even the cost of a pint at your local swanky wine bar.

Scoring over 140K dislikes in just 2 weeks is quite an achievement. I must give them credit.

@Doktor-Mandrake never had a Wii either, I didn’t feel like there was enough there for me to want one so can’t comment on it. The only Wii U VC game was OoT after beating Twilight Princess HD. Felt like I was playing it with sunglasses on…

@johnvboy Yeah I'm going through a not playing anything at all phase, might do it when I get the urge again...

@johnvboy Well said. I never understood why that very vocal and silent minority that frowns on the expansion pack doesn't stop and reflect that the newer service is voluntary purchase and Nintendo is not strong arming anyone into getting the expansion pack.

@Kal-El-Loves-Mario I never understood why others get upset when the majority qre vocal about objectively bad choices, especially when Nintendo has done better N64 emulation in the past.

Also how is one vocal and silent at the same tme?

@thaimbomb oh, how this has aged.