In case you missed it, Valve's rumoured "Switch-like" handheld device has now been officially revealed as the Steam Deck.
While the American company best-known for its digital games platform on PC hasn't drawn any comparisons to Nintendo's hybrid system itself, it's sort of hard to ignore certain similarities and the fact the price point is only $50 more than the recently announced Switch OLED.
During a chat with IGN, Valve's president Gabe Newell mentioned how crucial it was to find the balance between performance and pricing when designing the Steam Deck. While performance was the top priority, unfortunately, the trade-off was what Newell refers to as a "painful" price point:
"I want to pick this up and say, oh, it all works. It's all fast. It's all... and then price point was secondary and painful. But that was pretty clearly a critical aspect to it."
In a hands-on video, IGN compared the tech inside the system within the "ballpark" of the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 - while showcasing games like Control and Death Stranding running on it. Admittedly it's light years ahead of the Switch in terms of the kind of games it'll be able to run, and yet it's only $50 more than an OLED model.
If Valve gets it right, Newell believes this new device - which the company has described as a "small PC" and can even support windows - could go onto potentially sell millions of units:
"So our view is, if we're doing this right, then we're going to be selling these millions of units."
Just yesterday, Bloomberg released a report claiming Switch OLED upgrades cost Nintendo around $10 more per unit.
What are your own thoughts about the $399 / £349 starting price of the Steam Deck compared to Nintendo's Switch pricing? Do you think Nintendo has anything to be worried about? Leave your thoughts down below.
[source ign.com]
Comments 327
It could be huge because so many people are on steam. It could be a flop because who's going to play CS with a gamepad. But it could be huge for casual ffxiv players.
Personally I will buy a game on steam if they have it because the prices are generally better, ahem no Nintendo tax, they look better if you have a half decent computer, and because I know I'll likely be able to play it forever into the future without needing to have every system.
All other games, mostly Nintendo exclusives, I buy on consoles.
This certainly could dig into indie sales, but Nintendo’s got its first party games that make it unique. Looks cool for Steam folks, though!
I watched the videos but I wonder if it is offline friendly after you download your games to it?
I am very excited to play games like Sacred 2, Clive Barker's Undying or some other PC Exclusives like Heroes of Might and Magic games.
We might have Nintendo backed into a corner here, Nintendo will ether one, Not do anything even if its getting good sales, Two do something, or 3, Just leave the handheld market all together, all though the 3rd option seems unlikely.
@Zuljaras I imagine it will have an offline mode since Steam does.
@Zuljaras Clive Barkers Undying! what a fun time.
The press video said that any software can be 'installed' on it, like a PC. It didn't cover the annoying things like playing non-steam games easily without many 3rd party apps making the controller talk to the game.
The video has a slide or 2 warning devs that they have to make their games support steam controller system or be left behind.
For example, the nintendo switch controller has full support through steam, but if you try to play GoG or Epic games with the switch pro (through steam) only some games work, a lot dont.
I hope they smooth it out, but after the whole steam controller, steam box ordeal, i wouldn't hold my breath!
This looks like a great device but I can’t help but feel the lessons of the PSP have not be learned.
Sony’s console was great but it was hampered by developers making home console games for it. Nintendo kept making portable games and won.
People might be going ‘but you can get Skyrim on Switch!’ and you’d be right. But most people buy a switch for Nintendo franchises first. Look at the best games: BOTW and Mario Odyssey are actually portable games in disguise, able to be played for 10 minutes to find a Korok or grab a Moon. It’s a testament to Nintendo that these games do not feel like portable games yet have that baked into their DNA.
Your steam library is not built for portable play.
I will get one in April of next year. It seems like a really promising device and the fact that you will already have games on it with Steam will be awesome. The icing on the cake is to be able to play certain "games" on it that are DEFINITELY exclusive for PC. And I don't mean emulation or keyboard/mouse games.
@PapaSmurfCDMCMD So I can play GOG games on it. This looks surreal ... to good to be true.
I will wait but if that is true in any capacity it will be amazing!
Especially compared to those expensive GPD win consoles.
God forbid it's actually in the 300's, then they'll have to recognize that the number 3 exists
I pre-ordered Switch OLED and will pre-order this Desk as well once they are available in my country.
@RadioHedgeFund
They also aren’t even built for this setup, sure recent games will have support but older games that don’t have native support for controllers or UI scaling designed for a smaller screen so say hello to editing a bunch of .ini files and using janky KB&M2gamepad mappers while the Switch just works.
I don't see this doing very well. It will sell perhaps enough to justify itself, but it will not substantially cut into Switch sales. It appeals to a largely different audience (really just hardcore gamers, which make for a smaller percentage of Switch ownership than people realize), and — critically — it can't offer Nintendo exclusives.
Nintendo should've announced a real Pro Switch... This whole OLED situation is just nonsense.
It was a perfect time to put the original system on sale, sell millions and millions more, and release a more powerful machine for a fair price.
The Steam Deck will Probably be the competence Nintendo needed to stop being so greedy.
IMO, this shouldn't qualify as Nintendo news but... I'll speculate, why not?
Personally, I don't think that Nintendo has anything to worry about.They've ruled the handheld market with an iron fist, for a very long time. As impressive as this device is, will it sell in Japan? Oh... And by "sell" I mean even make a blip on the radar?
Lastly, it's very impressive hardware but I just don't see this impacting the Switch's future success. I'd assume that most Steam users who have wanted to game portable have already bought a Switch. Most Switch users who have wanted to game on more powerful hardware have already bought a PS5/Xbox Series/Gaming PC. So... Where exactly does that leave this thing, if Valve even decides to stay in game for this Gen?
Only time will tell if this will be a huge success or failure. At the end of the day, if people, especially PC gamers would want to play AAA titles, then they'd stick with their high-end PC. You also got to think of what made the Switch special, and those are exclusive games. Yes, you get a lot of games on Steam and maybe more outside of it but how many of those are similar to that of Mario, Zelda, Smash Bros., Pokémon, something that Switch has. Yes, emulators will be a thing here but still, if you want to officially support Nintendo games, you have to go with the Switch.
Not dissing on the Steam Deck completely though, this could be a good thing so Nintendo can step up their game and release a more powerful handheld system. Provided that they find this as competition but I feel like Nintendo is confident enough with their standing on the handheld market.
It certainly is an interesting device. Not new just interesting. Really, what does valve have to gain from this? Most companies don't make money off of hardware. It's the services and software they make money off of. I do see this being a mean emulating machine though (another argument/battle in ROMs and where you stand on that one.) I do wonder how many people are willing to be testers of a 1st gen? How many units does valve need to sell for it to be a success? Does Nintendo need to be scared? Not necessaryly because of their strong line up of IPs. Obviously people want "pro" switch but Nintendo will continue to march to their own beat while maximizing profits and investing in other places that are not gaming related.
@Snatcher Who's we? Is that you Gabe?
Gotta say, I actually like it. Though it won't have any new first party Nintendo games so it would be a bust for me unless I wanted a console that plays great looking third party games, which is possible. Looks nice too.
@Snatcher
Nintendo leaving the handheld due to a Valve handheld PC?
Some of these hot takes are wild.
Should Nintendo be worried?
Should you be worried about Steam Deck?
Should you be worried about the Switch?
Have you made a mistake buying a Switch?
Are you worried yet?
Let us know in the comments below.
In all seriousness, and yet again folk haven't been listening to the President of Nintendo, they mentioned months ago about rivals releasing similar products and being ready for them. Some people seem to think Nintendo board members sit around a table rocking backwards and forwards, worried what everyone else is doing. It's quite obviously the exact opposite. Besides, this is all specs and folk are salivating at PS5 games on a handheld without (much like the designers) putting too much thought into how comfortable it is to play. (I mean, we all have to be in agreement that the thing is a monstrosity, right?) Where is all the insight into it's design? Or wasn't there much beyond 'Let's turn the Switch into a tank!' Sure quick enough to talk about money, though.
It’s no Nintendo… that’s all! 😜
It’s good to have competition in the marketplace, hopefully Nintendo see a some threat from this which impacts sales to push them to innovate further in the future - this will hopefully be a positive for Nintendo and us
@Xiovanni Is not here and called switch lite?
For me, Nintendo needs to pay attention to Valve and anyone entering the portable console market, as it is clearly a statement that Nintendo was right and Switch is a huge success and they will have more competition.
Which is no bad, that might make them project Switch 2 with the competition performance in mind and bring dlss and other nice gimmicks.
It looks like a cheap retro 300-in-1 handheld that you buy at the Euroshopper. Hardly any s-appeal. Boring color scheme.
@cookeecut Button placement is actually a lot more reasonable than you'd think. They're positioned high, which should prevent thumb cramping. If they were positioned low like a traditional controller or the Switch then your thumbs would become sore overtime because you're reaching inward toward the buttons. As they're positioned, your thumb rests comfortably over either the buttons or the joysticks. This is actually one of the things I thought about with the joy-con because the Satisfye grip makes it more ergonomic and I wondered what would make the joy-con more comfortable to use on their own.
Never planned on owning a Valve device until today. I don't have a gaming PC but would LOVE access to a portable Gamepass console and a way to play chunky 3rd party games on the go, like GTAV, No Man's Sky, modded Skyrim etc.
After reading a lot about the device, I've decided to hold off on my OLED "upgrade" and get the Steam Deck instead. Seems like a perfect way to complete my gaming options, when in addition to my beloved Switch and PS5.
@westman98 @WCB Hey look I wont coral with you, I agree that the 3rd one is wild, but its nintendo were talking about.
@aSmilingMan Important to note that it comes with Linux installed so you'd need to install Windows to use Gamepass.
I have a hard time believing this will be anything more than a niche portable for those already invested in PC gaming. Not even Sony could dethrone Nintendo in the portable arena. The PSP was a bonafide console with dedicated software and mass appeal. The DS still vastly out sold it. As powerful as the Deck will be, the Switch just works. This seems like something that will require a lot of tinkering to get the most out of. Steam games weren't developed with portable play in mind, so things like UI, lower resolution screen and storage are going to keep this from being appealing to console and casual gamers. That said, I'm sure it will have a fanbase. Just not a massive one like the Switch. Nintendo has always done fine with underpowered handhelds.
@HexagonSun This isn't going to dethrone Nintendo in any way. It's not a console. It's a portable PC.
This is actually great competition against very expensive "gaming" laptops. And in a time with chipshortages. A very welcome one.
@SalvorHardin @RadioHedgeFund
You have got to be kidding me.
Do you have any idea how many games there are on Steam? There are tons over tons of games that would work without the slightest problem for a mobile environment. Including basically the entire Switch third party library.
Almost everything supports controllers as well.
For the few games that actualy need a mouse, thats what the touch pads are for.
While this may be a cool device, it won't cut into the Switch's sales much at all. People keep bringing up how its only $50 more than the OLED but fail to point out it's $100 and $200 more than the base Switch and Switch lite, respectively. And obviously the Deck won't be able to play the lastest Nintendo games barring piracy so yeah.
But like I said, a cool device and I'm definitely considering it. Hopefully Valve can sell it on at least Amazon and not just through their own site.
@sanderev
Consoles are essentialy PCs as well...
@Kirgo true, but the markets are different. For instance I play console games but I also have my own custom build gaming PC. For me, this wouldn't replace my Switch. It would replace my laptop.
@Longondo Yeah, I can imagine playing GTA V, RDR2 and many other indies on the go. But still, these games can also be accessed on your PC, which majority of PC gamers would end up playing on plus, Nintendo is also very supportive with indie games as of late so they got that going for them on top of their solid IP.
@Zuljaras Wonder if it supports games that are downloaded illegally and added to your steam library, like emulators?
@Kirgo Only to enthusiasts, Kirgo. Only to enthusiasts.
I mentioned that before, but the price ist kind of a trap.
The smallest model only hast 64gb of storage, which you probably would want to upgrade immediately, if you don't want to only play indie games.
Might as well buy a more expensive version, really.
Logically, to put a gaming PC in a smaller form factor without overheating and with decent battery life, it needs to be more expensive than a regular gaming PC, not less. So something is being sacrificed.
Nintendo did it by cutting back on processing power, which is why a lot of new AAA games don’t get Switch ports.
What is the catch with Valve’s version?
So, the base system is 400 bucks with 64 GB of memory (not flash), no dock, and no exclusives? It is all digital, and without flash memory, your memory will be eaten up in no time.
At least with the Switch OLED, you get a dock and system. The dock will be around 80-100 bucks. Yeah, this won't do that well.
Nintendo owns the hybrid market anyway.
@Kirgo yes also the cheapest model has eMMC flash storage, which is a lot slower than the NVMe of the more expensive options.
If you plan to run something else than SteamOS on it (which you can) you should buy the 512gb model, because more capable OSes will need more storage for system files.
@Snatcher In your dreams. They don't have anything to worry about.
More proof that Nintendo nailed it with the Switch. The more competition the better - it just pushes Nintendo to try harder.
@Wilforce yup! That's the plan. Thanks for the reminder though!
This will find its place. I am for sure considering this as its the cheapest gaming pc with portable power you can have. An entry level Acer Nitro or Asus TUF is twice the price of this and has more or less the same capability. I love Steam and games are reasonably priced here in our region. You have access to titles that span many console generations in this little thing.
I could see this device took off to a good start but I'm not sure if it'll be here to stay. Launching a product is one thing, keeping it relevant in the long run is another. Hopefully it'll last longer than them Steam Machines. GPD, Pyra, Tencent, and Aya Neo all had a good head start on the portable PC market (especially GPD with its Android and Windows portable PCs already out there with plans to make other models for Linux, iOS, and Mac soon in the near future) but all are basically unknown to the mass media so Valve had a better chance at succeeding with the Steam Deck if they play their cards right going forward.
@AndyRogan Well there is no way to tell if a GOG game is downloaded illegally or not
I personally buy my games on GOG but still
Similarities need not be ignored - just the asininely limited fan vocabulary that has no words beyond "clone" for the features Nintendo Switch's soon-to-be-five years in the market have clearly been noticeable enough to put on more people and companies' radars. And again, even the price (at least the base model's, but SSDs are synonymous to premium anyway) is pretty damn competitive in the device's niche.
Nintendo has nothing to worry about, and I don't even mean first party exclusives - like I said, these ARE different niches. Consoles gonna console, and Switch's flexibility remains nonpareil among them; Steam Deck is a self-admitted computer running on a PC-shared OS and meant to launch PC games none of which (barring maybe some Valve produce) are expected to be optimized for it alone (I still have flashbacks about Song of Memories, a visual novel whose cancelled Switch port led me to try wishlisting the game on Steam... and be greeted by recommended "16 Gb RAM"... but hey, maybe Steam Deck was born exactly to conquer this beast?😄). But it still looks like a potent and relatively affordable micro PC which can grant decent portability to many older titles not on Switch - or on [modern] consoles at all, for that matter - and provide legit offline alternatives to Switch's own cloudlings until the eventual successor can accommodate those without streaming. From OG Assassin's Creed (jury's still out on how much of its existence Ubisoft even remembers), TES Oblivion and Flatout to Assassin's Creed Odyssey, Control and Plague Tale - the power not to challenge Switch in the eyes of fully employed old nerds like myself, but to aid and complement it. And that's before people inevitably start putting emulators on this thing - imagine a finally portable Xenosaga trilogy... and not for $700+ at that?!
@Longondo to each their own, Dishonored is already in my Steam library, but unless Bethesda has a funny idea like dragging it to the cloud (which the first game certainly shouldn't require), I'd still double-dip on Switch even if I had a Steam Deck. I mean, I'm the same fruitcake who double-dips on the Switch ports of his handheld library items like WoFF and Iconoclasts.😄
@riki_sidekicks the catch is the same for all gaming micro PCs - in spite of the "gaming" modifier induced by the form factor and button layouts, it's still a general PC build for PC ports. How much of your Steam library will run and/or control well on it, only practical case-by-case experience will ultimately know. All Switch games, regardless of optimization success or SNAFU, are games someone sat down and worked to run and be controlled on Switch - even most memetic exceptions only prove the rule. And this, in all fairness, is a general console perk people come to expect over PCs, especially those of us not necessarily blessed with the Master Race's master budgets.
This has the potential to be a game changer. I'll always buy and play Nintendo for their first party exclusives, but what about all the times inbetween? I'm sick and tired of paying 3 or 4 times the Steam price to have it on Switch. I am also sick and tired of the eShop's terrible usability. I am.forever scrolling through complete and utter rubbish, and mobile phone ports before finding anything remotely interesting.
As a mass consumer of indie games for Switch (around 150 downloaded to date) - that's an average of say 40 a year. Average price difference between Switch and Steam is for arguments sake let's say £5 (some are much more, but some are around the same). That's £200 a year.
So if I intend to continue playing a lot of indie game content, I can essentially get this Steam console for free versus playing them all on Switch after 2 years. No brainer.
I'll keep playing and investing in Switch for first party, but sorry Nintendo, your eShop is shoddy, poorly supported, and frankly a bit of a rip off. Glad to be able to abandon it.
@riki_sidekicks Odds are that Valve's selling it at a pretty big loss. That being said, with all the revenue they make through Steam, they can easily make that up, especially if this brings in more Steam sales. I know I'll likely be buying more games through Steam over PlayStation thanks to the Deck.
@riki_sidekicks It seems similar to the Switch. It will take advantage of the low screen resolution for performance and the small screen size will make it more difficult to notice, but this is probably a bit subjective. Then there's the option of running games lower than the native resolution of the screen.
@Kirgo Games like Stardew Valley will work well on the platform because they work well on mobile. The advantage I see in the Steam Deck is that it will become an emulation powerhouse. Why not just shove every GBA and PSP game ever made on there?
But there are very few titles designed with portable play in mind. The Nintendo difference is that you can play a game like BOTW, Mario 3D World or Animal Crossing for hours in front of a TV or for 20 minutes on the bus. It’s a balancing act few developers manage to get right.
I don’t think they are going after the same markets. Nintendo will always have their own games to fall back on and that will always give them their own edge. Also I’m not totally sure who they are marketing this for? PC gamers tend to be more focused on getting the best performance. Can they really get what they want from this device. Or are they trying to go after a different audience? I’m not sure Steam is as household as Nintendo is to be able to penetrate the market and steal shares from Nintendo.
The pricing is perfect, to be honest. The market for this is not families. If Nintendo wants to compete, they just need to release the Switch 2 as it will probably have similar capabilities.
Looks less elegant than the Vita.. strange
There are three reasons I will pick up a Steam Deck: 1) it has amazing performance for a low-power device, 2) it can run non-Steam games like from GOG, and 3) it can run emulators.
I am off-grid often, so being able to charge a gaming device off a portable solar panel is huge for me. My current RTX 3060 gaming laptop maxes out at 190W power draw, it lasts less than an hour on battery when playing high-power games, and takes hours or days to fully charge. The Steam Deck's 40Wh battery should charge in an hour in full sunlight with a 60-75W solar panel, and they say it lasts 7-8 hours on a full charge with less demanding games (and I play lower-power games like the type available on GOG), and I assume emulated arcade or 8/16-bit games would also use less power.
I absolutely want this. It looks pretty ugly though, i gotta admit 😅. But finally being able to play Sims, Anno and Planet Coaster on the go? And a smoother version of Rocket League? Oh man, this is a dream come true!
The biggest advantage of this is the huge catalogue it will launch with.
Very tempted to pre order. Love Nintendo and the Switch but this could become my main way to play.
Will keep the Switch for Nintendo IP, but multiplats and indies, the Steam Deck will likely win my custom.
@nocdaes A majority of games that dropped in price a lot are the indie games, Nintendo games never dropped in price or go on sale that much. By claiming you'll only stick around on the Switch for just their first party titles means you still support their full price tactic. You supporting it means other devs will see this as an advantage and will try to sell you their games for full price too. Don't buy into the Switch if pricing is the issue, abandon the Switch and spread the words to your followers if you have any, buy them games on other platforms, ignore the first parties. Eventually your plan will work and soon Nintendo will be pressure to dropped the price of their first party games so that someone else won't get screw like you.
I feel that the comparison of ´the Steam Deck is just 50,- more for a lot more power' isn´t completly fair. With the Switch OLED you don't just get the console itself for that 350,- price tag. You also get the dock and the components for a more traditional controler.
With the Steam Deck, you just get the unit yourself. Want to 'dock' it? You gotta pay extra. Want a more traditional controler? You gotta pay extra. And for the record, not every buyer will already have the necessary cables and/or components lying around for this. It also doesn't change the fact the Steam Deck doesn't come with these components right out of the box while the Switch does.
@RadioHedgeFund
I don't see it.
Again, almost the entire third party lineup of the Switch is already on Steam. Why would any of these games not work as well?
Then there are still tons of games where I can't see the issue. Yakuza, Hitman, CoD, Assassin's Creed...
I honestly have a much harder time thinking of games that wouldn't work well on handheld. Existing strategy games mainly.
@F_T_Wolf also, the Switch can/is used as a physical (game card) machine. No installations are needed. In these circumstances the 64GB of memory goes a lot further.
The $50 price difference will be negated soon enough when you buy the same games on Steam, where they are cheaper. But for example Doom Eternal on PC does not go well with a controller, at least for me. Oh and it isn’t a PC, it is linux with a compatibility layer. I don’t expect things to go perfectly smooth, like on Switch. Then again, this probably has bluetooth audio!
NVMe does require more power than eMMC, while being a lot faster. It will definitely have an impact on battery life and thermals.
I hope the Deck does well so Nintendo feel a bit of pressure to make a better Switch. The OLED Switch is too low-effort.
@JamesR
The Switch has a lot more going for it when compared to the Steam Deck, not just the price. It's library of exclusives, its different play pattern, its wider appeal (children, families) and its physical games indeed.
The, in my eyes not really fair pricing comparison however is just the one point I wanted to single out here as I haven't really seen people take that into account.
So its real after all. However I don't think Nintendo is worried and they don't have to lower their price. This will be more something for core-gamers or a niche thing. But little Tommy and Aunt Annie only watch regular tv channels and regular online-shop/shops. And there you won't find the Steam Deck. There you won't see Steam Deck commercials. In other words: Steam Deck won't reach the masses.
Besides Nintendo still has there own line-up of games, physical games and the detachable joy-cons.
400 bucks seem like a steal at first glance but you really should go with the more expensive options since 64 GB are basically useless for PC gaming. And then you are moving in a price range well beyond the Switch's price. The dock has to be bought extra aswell and you only have 1 non-detachable controller compared to the 2 JoyCons that can serve as 2 controllers in a lot of games. I would like to be excited about this but I'm not really feeling it and I absolutely hate the button layout aswell.
If you can emulate other systems on this thing as well as having the entire Steam library it could be a must buy, especially with the dock. The button layout does look weird though, why's everything so high?
Nintendo isn’t facing an existential crises so long as they keep making good games. That said, they might lose some sales of third party games or have to be more competitive with Steam pricing for 3rd party sales (take a smaller cut, allow deeper discounts, make a better store). This is a win for consumers.
I think I'll pick one up. My laptops coming to the end if its serviceable life and this could be a good replacement. I think a fair number of people who want a capable and portable PC would be interested, looking at the specs would struggle to get something close at that price point just looking for a dedicated laptop. Valve are marketing it wrong, they've made a 'gaming device' which could actually be a great laptop!
Hmmm, looks like a modern game gear...
Honestly, I don't care, but that's just me, I'm just over having a Steam Library consisting of 1.000 Games I got during a sale but never got to play because the only incentive to get them was the cheap price to begin with.
@Joriss Thought the same. Especially considering the battery life and overall clunkiness.
@MajinSoul Yep, button layout made my head scratch. I fear it will be a very niche "PC master race" product. But hey, to each their own, I'd still prefer a proper Switch Pro though.
It has a D-Pad (although the positioning is bad). Has a free version of virtual console and I'm sure it plays GameCube games too. I'd need to install real windows on it, but I am tempted. Surely one useless track pad is enough.
Not for me, but obviously a great idea for others. The fact the pricing was ‘painful’ shows Valve were desperate to compete with the Switch as it eats a big percentage of it’s indie lunch. I just wonder if this will really drive people to spend more on STEAM and garner new customers to make it worth taking a loss on the machine?
Yeah not keen on the look , and most ppl buy Nintendo to play Nintendo style games the big games again most ppl have a pc or a console for them types of games , can’t imagine a serious pc gamer wanting to play games on that , good luck to them thou but can’t see it affecting Nintendo, consoles are always out powering Nintendo and Nintendo are still here always strong
Amazing idea and for that price!
But I barely play on Steam so I think this is not for me.
Happy with the Ninty and ports to the Switch for now.
I think the thing that will make this a poor user experience compared to the Switch is it's still running PC games, which means you'll still have to go into the options screen of each game and try to find the right settings for the games to run well (unless Valve are pre-creating optimal game configs, which I doubt they are).
The text in most PC games is sized for a PC monitor, so many games (and their options screens) will be illegible on a small screen (perhaps they expect people to plug it into a monitor to do all the set up?) And some PC games have an external app where all the settings are chosen, meaning you have to keep booting into and out of a game to try different detail levels.
All in all, I think this will appeal to a niche, it's not going to grab the mass market who wouldn't have a clue about what settings to pick for a game and don't know the difference between anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering (or even what they are). Unless Valve have made sure to create an optimal profile for every single game so that users never have to faff around trying to set games up using that little touchpad to move a mouse around an options screen, most people will find this too much hassle to use.
How whill Nintendo respond?
price cut , Switch pro with DLSS 4K?
History tells us that better hardware isn't guaranteed succes.
Game Gear ,Atari Lynx, PSP , Vita ...
But competition is always good and spec wise Steam Deck awesome machine.
The more I thing about it the more games playable on the go come to my mind:
1. Resident Evil 2 Remake
2. Resident Evil 7
3. Resident Evil Village
4. Sacred Gold Edition
5. Sacred 2 Ice and Blood
6. Heroes of Might and Magic the whole series
7. Grim Dawn
8. Nox
And so many more that never got released on consoles.
Well, the best part is, now we will be able to play our entire steam library, including games that the switch can only stream, and we have our achievements, which Nintendo has thus far refused to make for switch although it has been requested for a long time. Maybe this will show them that they should have done more than just changed the screen
@Dethmunk
Would you say, that the Switch lies better in hand than the Wii U Gamepad?
I certainly wouldn't. If Steamdeck has a level of comfort similar to the Wii U, it wins in my book.
Also, the switch was supposed to switch to 64gb game carts a couple years ago. You are now left in the dust nintendo
The price is not a surprise. As all know Nintendo, like Apple, price their products way more than they're actually cost to manufacture, simply because they can.
As for this being a success? I have strong doubts. Valve don't have that know how when it comes to selling hardware. Steam Machines and Steam Link were all great ideas but came and went without much fanfare. Why would this be different?
Really cool stuff but I'll be passing on it even though I'm a huge PC gamer and keep my PC(s) up to date.
I have my Switch for portable play and I'd like to keep both experiences separate.
I will be buying a few for gifts next year though.
@Snatcher
If the abject failures of the Virtual Boy, Gamecube, and Wii U weren't able to sink Nintendo, neither will the existence of a Valve handheld PC.
The specs are amazing, it’s kind of like like an Xbox Series S console tuned for handheld play and 720p resolution. Very exciting. Not a fan of how it looks at all, but I’m still very tempted. As a big Nintendo fan who also loves tech and all the other platforms too, I find the Switch at this point is feeling a little long in the tooth, particularly when I dock it to my 4K TV. I know that I am still in the minority of who Nintendo’s offering is for, but it would be nice if they catered to more than just the lowest common denominator. I like how Xbox has you covered whether you want the most high end (Series X or PC) or just an entry model (Xbox One, Series S, Cloud, budget PC).
I hope the next Nintendo console comes in Q1 2023 with BOTW 2 (let’s be honest “targeting 2022” is Nintendo speak for not a chance) and has a similar power level to this Steam Deck in handheld and leverages boost clocks and DLSS to deliver at 1080p native resolution AI upscaled to 4K/1440p TV experience… I’m probably dreaming but you never know!
Oh, wow. Maybe it's time for Nintendo to actually improve their USP with original games slowly now instead of releasing the 1000th WiiU remake?
You get a fair load of computing power for 400 bucks here.
Considering R&D, parts, assembly, shipping, marketing, support, digital infrastructure, and taxes, Valve is sure to take a nice bit loss on selling the cheapeat model. But then the more expensive models are likely to make up for it. Apple style.
And I'm sure the end goal here is to propagate the spread of SteamOS, and really test drive it hard in the hands of regular players.
Also to get a whole new set of data about their user. What would they really play more of, if their entire Steam library was available on a handheld at all times?
Valve basically did what Nintendidn't.
@RadioHedgeFund PSP didn’t have any home console games. They had handheld versions… and that was their mistake. They had cut back Diet Coke versions of games - people wanted the full experience. There was no analog double sticks. PSP was successful anyway… it was the vita that went wrong…. Was a superb machine but didn’t get the third party console games that the PSP got…. People want “full” games on the go - which is why the switch is selling so well…. Doom, Witcher, Etc…
This will do ok for similar reasons - the reason this won’t challenge switch is that it will quickly become under powered (arguably already is) and many will find the hit and miss nature of what PC games will run on it. Consoles sell well because it’s one price and then all games on that format work. Many gamers don’t want to/know how to work out which games would run with their set up.
I really hope this eats into Nintendo's Switch sales. They've been coasting for years, and this is just the thing to scare those dinosaur executives at NCL. Nintendo is only good when it's backed into a corner, never when it's doing well.
Not really into handhelds even though I do love steam. Switch really does need some competition though so that Nintendo hopefully gets the kick in the arse they deserve and start trying a bit more again.
Honestly though I cannot help thinking that that thing looks cumbersome as all hell to play on though, what is up with that button layout?
@KryptoniteKrunch
Plus it doesnt contain the dock and comes as an optional extra (cost unkown)
From the sounds of it there is a large percentage of switch players that play docked only.
This no different from numerous handheld PCs on the market/ due to release (Im still waiting for my GPD Win 3 to arrive)
The only difference being its at a more affordable base price vs its competitors.
If Nintendo feels threatened by them the switch has 6 months to drop in price.
In the long term if they still feel threatened.....it will either encourage Nintendo to innovate or not hold back and use dated technology.
Provided Nintendo keeps releasing physical media there are people willing to buy. (Given a choice Id pick up a switch version over a steam version even when I get my GPD Win3........Im a collector/hoarder)
Likewise more sane people are going to pick up a retail switch title for Birthdays for little ones vs steam 'credit'.....kids love opening presents!
Indies cost like 50p on Steam so Switch will no longer be the indie dream machine. I'm gonna cancel my OLED order and get one of these instead.
Switch and evercade will do thanks.
I hate to say it, but I'm gonna say it. Gonna buy this instead of a switch OLED. And I'm gonna play the bejeezus out of it. And probably won't touch my switch for a very long time. The update on OLED should have been internal hardware, not just the screen. Nintendo blew it, thinking thwy had the monopoly. If I were Nintendo, I'd be freaaking out right now. You're not gonna sell the 5 year old console with just your first party games. They have to develop a pro. And quickly. Or they're gonna lose this entire thing.
The most terrifying thing is that the Steam Deck actually ends up being CHEAPER in Sweden where I live then the upcoming Switch OLED.
I have the OLED pre-ordered but I'm going to switch it (no pun intended) to a steam deck instead. I have a fully functional Mario Edition switch but I play a lot in handheld so I was going to upgrade anyway. However I'll still be able to use my current switch AND play basically everything except ps5 exclusives handheld after I've gotten the deck. A no brainer really.
I am definitely getting one of these and this has killed off the small chance I might have bought a new OLED Switch. I have hundreds of games in my Steam library already, so this feels like a no brainer.
Also, PC not only gets EVERY new Microsoft game (and Game Pass will work on this), but also a number of PlayStation console exclusives like Horizon, Days Gone, Death Stranding, Nioh, Nioh 2...
It seems impractical to me. The $400 model having only 64GB storage will cause inevitable frustrations.
When you consider unlike the Switch, devs aren't going to try and reduce file sizes. Steam games are designed for PC first, they aren't going to compress audio, use lower res textures etc.
Unless you're getting a powerful handheld to play 2D indie games, you're going to be wrestling with constant uninstallations to make space. There's games that'd be literally too big to install.
You've got all the limitations of a handheld with a library not designed to account for it.
@Dr_Lugae Nope. Steam Deck uses same SD cards as Switch.
Due to lower resolution, many devs will probably optimize existing games for it to save space etc. anyway.
@Gwynbleidd Never used a gaming PC?
My RTX 3070 GPU can go as low as 800x600 in games which is a resolution from mid 1990's.
Also. Steam Deck is much more handy to drag around than a gaming laptop.
@Gwynbleidd Most PC games will work with the resolution. Have you ever used a PC, most games have loads of resolution options. It's a PC so it's all about graphics and resolution options.
I already have 3500 games on Steam, so i'm getting this.
And besides. You can install Epic store, UBI Store, EA Store launchers on it too.
While this is an impressive piece of tech, I don’t think it will affect Nintendo sales all that much. Reason 1) first party games. Nintendo consoles are bought primarily to experience Nintendo games. As long as Nintendo makes games, they will be making consoles that people will get solely to experience those games. Reason 2) in an interview with IGN, this device gets pause between 2 and 8 hours, which really means somewhere in the ballpark of 2 hours to somewhere in the ballpark of 8 hours. Now let’s be honest here since we are all honest about the switch’s hardware limits: you’re going to be getting the bottom end of those 2 hours when you play with the high performance the steam deck claims to achieve. Either do that for maybe 2 hours or you’re gonna primarily play with switch-level performance on the go. Reason 3) as a mobile device, what will be the long-term performance? are steam games optimized for a mobile device? How hot will this thing get while you are playing? When electronics stay hot for long periods of time, the battery degrades faster. How long will this battery last before there is a noticeable decrease in battery capacity? Finally, Sony and Xbox are experiencing drift with their new controllers. Has Valve addressed the drift issue?
@Ventilator No I mean if you had a game which had 4k textures and lower res alternative texture files . If you made a Switch port the developer could delete the 4k textures to save space since the Switch would only use the lower res.
But on steam if you download the game it's going to have to contain both the 4k and lower res textures files. So the Steamdeck will have a bunch of unused files in games taking up space.
What is with all the Nintendoomed posts? I'm here for the Nintendo games and this thing doesn't have them so nothing to worry about.
@hammers1man I don't think he ever used PC much. If he did, he would know most games supports 720p.
My RTX 3070 GPU can go as low as only 800x600 which were a resolution from 1990's.
My biggest issue with the device is the design and the limited internal storage. 64GB is not enough space and will barely store a AAA game. That and this device is super niche as unlike the Switch which is simple and has a broad appeal this device looks like a Switch knockoff to the average consumer who buy consoles for a simple setup and play (Steam and PC gaming is not that simple to the technology impaired aka the average consumer). It is ugly, does not look comfy to use and I really don't like the price point for anything above 64GB.
Happy for those excited, but I'm okay waiting a year or two for a Switch successor.
@Dr_Lugae Yes, but i think devs will be all over this and degrade the games for this handheld to make the downloads smaller.
Switch have proven this already.
A handheld like this doesen't need developers on board as it already runs any PC game ever except for Flight Simulator 2020.
FS is getting a huge speed improvement this month, so perhaps it can run at 15-20 fps on this handheld.
@Ramen756 very solid points. This much like the Steam Machine is a niche product designed to cater to a PC demographic. It's great for what it is, but unless Valve gets serious like release first party games exclusive to Steam this machine will flop rather hard.
@Brummieendo90 Wrong. It runs more Nintendo games than Switch will ever do.
In fact even Switch can be emulated full speed on it. It can emulate all Nintendo consoles ever made.
@Wexter Most games on Steam is already PC exclusive as most there doesn't exist on any console ever.
$50 more than OLED Switch, yet over twice the power (handheld), that is a competitive win in my book. Getting this to play Mechwarrior 5 and Battletech on the Go. Looking forward to this.
@Ventilator cool (outside of the legal grey area). But, you have to understand that to the average consumer they have no idea how to setup emulators or even where to get those things without infecting their machines. That's why most casual gamers play on consoles or mobile because PCs frustrate them. Where is Valve's answer to Animal Crossing or Mario Kart?
Most consumers don't care about old games. They like them when they are packaged as simple collections, but you have to remember they don't want to buy a $400USD machine to play old games like Dark Void, Dragon Age Origins, or even COD4. That and most old games they would be interested in gets ported to the Switch and other consoles. So why would they care to buy a machine like this when they can just buy a Switch for less and play Mario Kart 8, Zelda BotW or Animal Crossing New Horizons? This machine is very niche you have to admit that. Valve has to market this thing as so far they are repeating the exact same mistakes they made with the Steam Machines.
@Wexter If you use your Switch for 3rd party games and even indie games the extra £110 for the faster and bigger storage will pay for itself with much cheaper games on PC. Nintendo tax is a joke, I just can't believe how expensive games are on Switch. Also Nintendo has such a poor online experience. Steam chat, Steam works are for example very good.
Don't get me wrong I love the Switch and the first party games and even if I didn't have a big Steam library this device is a much cheaper way to play games on a handheld in the long run.
If I knew this was coming out I wouldn't have bought 3rd party Switch games that perform poorly or indie titles, I have even double dipped on games on my Steam library to play them mobile. No need for that any more.
@Gwynbleidd So why the comment that you can't play most PC games with the resolution when you actually can. You are the one giving misinformation.
@Gwynbleidd Yes they will run much better at that resolution. Every game that is on both systems will run much better on this than a Switch.
Witcher 3 for example.
@hammers1man how do you sell that to the average consumer? No one has answered that at all. This is great if you already have a gaming PC and a robust Steam library (the average consumer has neither). That and if they were already interested in PC gaming on the go they'd buy a gaming laptop which already does everything a Steam Deck does and their regular everyday workflow.
The Switch was sold on the back of Zelda BotW and the hype Nintendo generated by their first year lineup. This machine has none of that outside of "Play your PC games on the go! Maybe... If you invest in it for model with large storage or a sizable mSD card... You will need to spend an extra $100USD at minimum" Otherwise it's an indie machine which the Switch already is.
A few interesting things, the sticks are not cheap like in Switch and the buttons are "positioned perfectly". I can't wait for the early hands-on articles. This is a powerful and versatile little machine.
https://store.steampowered.com/steamdeck
@Wexter Cheaper games will sell it to the average consumer. If you are not interested in Nintendo first party games and I assume a lot of people that haven't bought a Switch yet aren't. This is actually a cheaper handheld to own as Steam sales blow away any Nintendo sale. Also every game will run much better than on the Switch OLED. There are people that will see this as a better option.
@Gwynbleidd As Switch proved, 720p works on a small screen.
The problem is 720p on a TV. The GPU inside Steam Deck supports up to 8K for streaming/video, but can it do 1080p for games?
Normally it should run games at 1080p with it's TV output.
I only need this for portability anyway as my PC have RTX 3070/AMD Ryzen 9 5900X for "big screen" gaming.
@Wexter
You say the average consumer doesn't have a solid Steam library, yet Steam had 120 million active users last time I checked.
PC gamers are just as much average gamers as console gamers are.
@hammers1man if that was super easy to market then PC gaming would be a far larger share of the market. And most of what this machine offers a laptop already does. It's really ugly looking piece of hardware and the Wii U proved the average consumer cares about that. And once again an average Joe goes into a Walmart and sees this thing next to a Switch they are not going to care or know about Steam. They will know Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and Animal Crossing which all their friends are talking about. And the Switch is $50-150USD cheaper. How do you market this to Average Joe?
True. "Casuals" have no clue about emulation anyway unless it's a official emulated collection.
For some reason some pixel games sells millions.
Minecraft alone sold over 200 millions. So yes, there is a market for retro games.
Steam Deck also runs Newest PC games, and not just old games. That way it gives more value than Switch as Steam Deck already have a library of 100.000 games before it even launches.
I doubt Steam Deck will sell more than 5-10 millions, and sure won't be a Switch competitor. Thats not Valve's plan either.
Steam Deck's main market is existing Gaming PC owners with a huge Steam library.
It won't sell that much to average John Doe.
Steam Deck is more or less for the hardcore PC gaming market.
The old Steam OS box didn't sell well because of it's high price tag due to lack of cheap hardware for small boxes back then. Times have changed.
@Kirgo I'm referring to the average consumer. And most of those average users are playing on hardware that is close to 10 years old or on laptops. They don't care about hardware specs rather they go "cool my laptop plays Fortnite and Fall Guys? Awesome!!!." Or they are someone who can't just spend $400USD on something they already get at home. The Wii had over 90million in sales and that did not translate to Wii U buyers. Just because Steam has built up 120 million users does not mean all of them have the means or desire to buy a Steam Deck.
@Ventilator thank you! That's how I see it doing as well. It won't be a total failure (neither was the Wii U) but it won't be a true Switch competitors... unless Valve starts making games like Left for Dead 3, Portal 3 and Half Life 3... What's with Valve and the number 3?
@RadioHedgeFund I disagree a bit with you.
There are many games on steam but imagine playing your easy to run games like hollow knight or the other many indies with you on the couch. Yeah im sure you cant run bf 2042 properly on it (maybe it will). But for tons of other games in HD its okay. Most 3rd party games on this will run better on switch only because of the stronger hardware without optimizations. I for one cant wait to play many of my steam games on this device.
@Wexter Also you will get an average consumer that looks at this and the amazing amount of quality games on the Steam store.I think steam will support games with a type of thing similar to GeForce experience which auto sets graphics settings on games to run optimally.
This is basically a console with a Steam experience. Most consumers won't even use it for it's full experience. Hardcore gamers will love the flexibility. There is a market for this handheld hybrid.
Also, third party games on steam are cheaper then on switch or atleast very often on sale. Yeah sure you cant officialy play BOTW on this but then again you cant have other games on switch.
@Brummieendo90 well, you can install a Switch emulator making Switch games look even better than on the original Switch
This thing is looking really amazing, you can use gamepass on this, stadia, steam link, windows 10, this thing is crazy.
@hammers1man That's not marketing. A) most of those 100,000* games are either old, average or terrible. B) They already own the games they want to play on it on their PS4, Xbone or Switch. C) old games do not sell systems except to an enthusiast market.
A game selling 3millon units is a success despite being in a hypothetical market of 200 million. That is because the average consumer buys 1-4 games per-year and most of the time it's old faithfuls like COD and Sports Games. They might buy a 1st party game or a 3rd party title that is hype. The Wii U is a perfect example of an enthusiast machine large library of retro games, awesome 1st and 3rd party titles but lacked the marketing to be a massive hit. Compare that to the Switch which has an awesome gimmick, great 1st party titles and some 3rd party titles that offer unique selling features like playing Skyrim and Doom on the can. What does a Steam Deck offer to Average Joe that they care about the Switch cannot already do for cheaper?
I'm not saying this thing has no market. It is an enthusiast machine and maybe will sell to that market. To the average consumer they will ask " why buy this when I can get a Switch that had Animal Crossing which all my friends post about on Insta and Facebook ". Without a 1st party catalog or a massive marketing push this will frustrate Average Joe when he realizes he can install maybe one game on it and cannot buy games for it in store. The people this is catering to is hardcore PC enthusiasts who can get the most out of it just like every portable PC console hybrid that came out the last year which have not found a sizeable market despite having the same benefits.
"If Valve gets it right"
Because if there is ONE thing Valve is know for, it's well thought out and ultimacy successful hardware launches!
This thing is going to be an artifact in no time.
@Wexter These 120 million only include the players that have used Steam in a month.
This does not include many Fortnite kiddies, as that is not on Steam. It also does not include hardcore Minecraft or League of Legends players etc.
And more people who don't use Steam for other reasons.
If you include everything, there are easily many more PC gamers out there than console gamers total.
What exactly ist the "average consumer" in that context? Just as people bought a Switch, they could buy a Steamdeck.
Doesn't need to be someone who ist a PC gamer at all.
There are more than enough potential customers for this thing.
Will thus be a success? I don't know, but the amount of people who could buy this ist very high.
@Wexter
"What does a Steam Deck offer to Average Joe that they care about the Switch cannot already do for cheaper?"
You mean asside from it having vastly better performance in all games and a much bigger library of games, which are also much cheaper?
Maybe better online functionality for free?
To be honest, the only arguments pro Switch here is the price at first and its first party games.
If you want to play anything but Nintendo first party stuff, then Steamdeck simply seems superior.
@Wexter Of course the Switch will sell much better. But this is more for people who want to play AAA games rather than Animal Crossing on a handheld. PS and Xbox games can't be played on a handheld natively so it is not in competition with those consoles. I do think the fact that the games don't have Nintendo tax and also the option of a proper online experience are big selling points. Also Steam just has a much better library of quality games than the Switch. There is a greed about Nintendo that I just don't like. Selling slightly optimised Wii games at full price is a joke. High priced old 3rd party games just because they are portable is something else I don't like.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I'm getting strong Lynx, Game Gear, Neo Geo Pocket, PSP, N-Gage, Vita-type vibes here. Which is to say the stench of doom.
Better tech specs (and in some cases shinier looking games) never won the day in any of those instances, either. (And I say that as someone who loved his Lynx and Lynx II - sob...)
@CivilMadman Not sure you can compare with PS Vita or PSP etc. This will always have new games as it is a PC. It doesn't need proprietary games to support it.
It is nice to have another affordable handheld. Bloody hell this thing is half the price of my phone.
I'm hoping to get one and say bye bye to Nintendo. Aside from 2 or 3 exclusives worth mentioning, i can't see the appeal of a system that barely has no price cuts, and most games come out fully priced even if they are simple ports of 20 year old games. This Steam Deck is happy news to everyone who likes gaming, since Steam games are fairly priced, with discounts and, hold it, you don't have to buy over and over to play in different devices. I hope Nintendo learns a lesson with this but I'm fairly certain they won't, since it's a company built on nostalgia and old glory days.
@Snatcher who has been around since 1885. Nintendo is like IBM, they're not going anywhere and they have quite a bit of money (and capital) stored up. It will take more than the Steam Deck to wipe out a Kyoto pillar.
Nintendo will probably release the Switch 2 by 2023-2024. It'll probably be on par with this system. Until the shortage is resolved, a beefier Switch would have just added to the problem of the PS5 and Xbox Series systems. I think Nintendo took the road where components wouldn't be an issue and people could get their hands on a Switch. There isn't an OLED shortage.
Also, the Steam Deck will be limited to the audience who knows the Steam platform. This will be a hit with hardcore and PC gamers, I doubt it will hit the same segments the Switch hits at the same time. My hope is the Steam Deck sells well enough for Valve not to abandon it. They ran away pretty fast from their Steam Machines, which was a letdown for me since I'm still a fan of their platform over Epic.
This is going to smoke the Switch. Nintendo were too complacent, releasing an almost unrevised new Switch model 4 years after the first. This is a well needed wake up call.
@Stocksy The PSP failed because it carried on the legacy of the PS2 generation and only ever marketed itself to traditional gamers. By the time it had decided to play host to some more innovative portable titles the DS had ran off into the sunset with consumers cash. The stream of games kept coming but between the DS opening up an entirely new revenue stream and the iPhone taking everyone by surprise (this was the real 'walkman of the 21st Century') it was getting squeezed.
I say all of this and yet the PSP is probably my favourite console of all time! It played host to my favourite games in many franchises like WipEout and it had an almost obscene collection of quality JRPG's. In 2005 hooking your console up to Wi-Fi to download some DLC was like something from the year 3000. Grab one now and a cheap memory stick and you can turn it into the emulation console of your dreams, especially as it has native PS1 emulation baked in.
The PSVita was a worthy successor but the software dried up, 1st party games were not as good as the PSP and Sony's insistance on proprietary memory cards gave it no chance out the gate.
Maybe make a deal with Nintendo and run Switch OS on it!
@RadioHedgeFund PSP didn't fail. 82 million units sold or a new device on mobile market is big success. Its the only mobile game console that gave Nintendo a run for her money! And these exclusives! Crisis Core FFVII, Gran Turismo, Persona 3 portable (well not exactly exclusive but still)
Looks interesting, but valve just has such a poor history with hardware. Perhaps a future grab, but certainly not on the first run. I'll wait until there some more hands on with it.
@progx Well, at the moment ther are 120,000,000 (1,000,000,000 accounts) active steam users registered. I think that are many people who know the steam platform and this is a huge potential user base. Of course with some more media buzz and maybe an active cooperation with Microsoft (keyword: Game Pass) it would sell better. I think the distribution only through the steam platform will hold back the sales. If they were more open and sell it i.e. through amazon they could reach also more audience. I for myself love my switch, but will wait for some reviews on this new hardware. Imagine the possiblity to play games like Dark souls 2 - 3, Factorio, Satisfactory, Rim World, Anno and so much more in Handheld on your toilet I mean for many people this freedom of the switch is and was a selling point (aside from the 1st party games).
@hammers1man Fair enough, and yeah... maybe, but I wasn't really comparing in terms of number of games, so much as in terms of almost every handheld generation the Nintendo machine of the era was up against something that was technically superior, but it was the games that won the day, every time. Games that weren't available anywhere else.
I'd be happy to be proved wrong: I loved my Lynx(es) and PSP, and think competition is a good thing, but I dunno if this is it.
I've gone back and forth on whether I want to reserve one, but I don't think I'm going to.
A few things factor in:
I definitely won't rule out getting one in the future. If nothing else, I have hundreds of Steam games that'd run beautifully on this thing, and this will easily become the ultimate VN machine.
But, at the moment, I don't even have time to play all of the Switch games I own, so buying a portable system to play games I also don't have time for and can already play on better hardware seems extravagant.
I hope it does well, though. Nintendo needs to at least see there's a demand for more powerful portable hardware out there.
@dimi P3P was different enough to qualify as an exclusive, IMO.
@Achilles1984 On paper, yes the potential is there. That's why I thought the Steam Machines were going to clobber the PS4 and Xbox One... didn't happen. Not even a whimper. Those PCs were just as simple as the Steam Deck is being advertised.
Microsoft will probably just tell Steam Deck users to install Windows on their device to play Game Pass.
Again, I hope it does well, but it isn't going to hurt the Switch sales. May just help the Switch sell more units when Nintendo fills out the family of devices in the next couple of years. In a year or two, I'll pick one up and check it out.
@Ralizah same here.
@Dindunuffin sadly on the hardware side. Everyone seems to forget about the Steam Machines they tried to push about a decade ago. Almost bought one, too. I thought PlayStation and Xbox were going to be a thing of the past. They have a nasty habit of jumping off the ship pretty quick at the first sign of smoke. I hope with the Steam Deck, they stick with it for a couple of years before they abandon the project.
@phonebook probably with the PC and hardcore gamer. Your casual and occasional gamer, they'll probably keep their $399 for something else. It is graphically superior to the Switch, hands down. However, there isn't an option for local multiplayer on the unit, nothing mentioned about rumble or motion controls. It's a narrowly focused product. Steam Deck's competitors are mainly PCs, PlayStation and Xbox. Nintendo will still have time for their Red Ocean strategy while Valve plays hot and cold with this device.
@SalvorHardin
Exactly. Initially, I was pretty excited, but quickly realised unless you stick to console-style games, it's probably going to be an arse to use. I wouldn't like to try and replay the original Deus Ex on it for instance.
@phonebook
I'll see you in 12 months to laugh at that comment. Ninty won't even break stride, this has 'niche' written all over it.
@progx
I remember those. They tend to abandon projects. Not as bad as Google. Lol. But the machine supporting other apps is a good sign. If that includes GOG Galaxy and Epic Store, that would be a big boon for the longevity of the Steam Desk.
I think this will appeal mostly to people who already have Steam accounts. Although for people new to the thing Steam is way more appealing than the eShop: more language options both for platform and games and more frequent (and more dramatic) discounts. Not to mention the library is HUGE and often involves both original games and their remakes/remasters. And Greenlight!
The big question is performance. I doubt creators of games like Cyberpunk 2077 or Monster Hunter World had this machine in mind when optimizing their games. Another is UI scalability: Switch version of Sunless Sea clearly had its UI zoomed in compared to the Steam release, for easier reading, while Deep Sky Derelicts is tiny on the Switch screen. If games read the system as a PC we might have a problem.
Nintendo have nothing to worry about. Most PC gamer, aka people using Steam do not care about such device to play PC games.
Also this thing is not "year ahead" of the Switch. Most (all?) demanding game will not run on that, they will need to be streamed from your high end PC.
This is just another try on the steambox, things that fail quite badly.
Also a really important point. Game made for the Switch, there is only one hardware, so game released for the Switch in 5 years time will run well on Switch sold in 2017.
PC Game released in 5 years time will probably not run well on that device.
@the_beaver With that price range, it's nowhere near to be competition for Nintendo. It will quickly fade away.
@Dindunuffin I think it would be a big boon for PC Gamers. They wouldn't need a Switch or console really.
However, I can see Epic getting a bit salty with the Steam Deck. While I have no doubt Fortnite will run on it, how will the Epic Store run natively on SteamOS without having to install Windows? I can Sweeney being a swindler on this device since it has their competitor's name on it.
Microsoft, they'll just tell you to install Windows on it to play Game Pass.
I don't think GoG would care either way. The community with CD Projekt Red is incredible in that store. Would say, GoG is a close second to Steam for my PC games.
@Edu23XWiiU just wait to unveil the dock. Which you have to buy separately. I'm pretty sure the Steam Deck dock will cost between $100-300.
I don't think this is going to sell well. Granted, it sounds great, but they just don't have the brand recognition that console makers(especially nintendo) have.
Also, is it me, or do does the button/control layout on that thing look really awkward? I already find it almost impossible to play certain games(such as mario maker)in handheld mode on the switch, and this seems even worse(though to be fair, I rarely play The switch in handheld mode.) The buttons are like right on very edge/corner of the device. I assume they will have an option to play on a TV with a "regular" controller the way the switch does?
This honestly is not a good product. Switch games are optimized to principaly occupy the least amount of space possible. With the basic model, most PC games will not be able to fit in its memory capacity, and people are not counting the OS size file, so you can at least count 10GB less out of those 64GB it has. It looks bad, and price range is just not competitive against the Switch. This is only aimed at people that have a lot of money, are PC only users, and want to play certain games on the go.
Will Xbox release a handheld GamePass machine?
Biggest flop in 10’s: Ouya.
Biggest flop in 20’s: This whatever Valve thing.
@Wexter Half-Life 3 etc. is highly wanted games, but at thi s point i still think the main market is for Gaming PC people using Steam.
People who always sticked with consoles don't have much relationship to Valve games, so doubt Valve gets much attention from the mass market.
What i mean is that it's not a Mario Kart or a Zelda game for the mass market.
I suspect Mario Kart 9 is "delayed" so it can be a system seller for "Switch Pro".
@Gwynbleidd
Time will tell how it works out for handheld optimization for resolution on Steam Deck, and also for saving space due to more limited storage.
I think it's more fair to compare Steam Deck 64.GB Flash for 399$ vs Switch OLED with 64.GB Flash.
SD cards can be bought for both of them to extend storage, and the prices for SD is exact same for both handhelds.
I think Steam Deck is more handy to travel with than a big gaming laptop. One of the reasons why Switch sells so well.
i will buy it. i want so many pc games on handheld which are not on switch, i just have no choice right??
Geez, I can't believe how many people think this is a good system after how many times Valve have shown in the past that they only care about their hardware for about 6-12 months and then they pretends it no longer exists. I loved Valve in the past as a software dev, I am primarily a PC/Nintendo gamer. I have been burned in the past by Valve's cruddy hardware that seems better on paper than it actually is. I have many, many games on Steam, but I am not buying this. I would rather experience my Steam purchases on my machine that is currently better than a PS5 or whatever the new Xbox name is again, not one that is a generation behind by console standards. I have my Switch for Nintendo purchases and some great indie titles that don't need power.
Market for this thing: hardcore gamers that own most of their aaa titles on pc and want horsepower on the go. I don’t know how big is this market though, I agree nintendo does not care much about horsepower( at least not wanting to lead on this front), more about fun and innovative gameplay on their awesome ip . Plus it offers the best hub for Indies, exactly the type of games one enjoy to play on the go. On the other hand I love my ps5 and love playing aaa titles on the big screen and at least for 2 hour sessions. Every gamer has different needs, let’s see how this thing sells.
There are an awful lot of folks commenting in here who do not understand the console or handheld markets, do not understand Nintendo's market appeal and market strategy, and who seriously over-estimate Valve's ability to sell hardware.
Valve does not have a successful history capturing market interest and I think this Steam unit will be something of a boutique item. It's cool, don't get me wrong, but it's not a hot commodity. I would love for this to be a breakout item, but rationally speaking it's not going to be. I think the best we can hope for is that it sells well enough Valve doesn't feel they have to discontinue it in a couple years. This feels very much like an Nvidia Shield situation.
As for statements that this endangers the Switch market in some way, please. There's no way this steals any of Nintendo's Switch sales. And for those vociferously demanding a Switch Pro and calling the Switch OLED a mistake, nope! Nintendo's Switch is selling too well to step up to a Pro model. Why would Nintendo want to fragment their own super-successful market base? The OLED model is a way to attract folks who have somehow remained on the fence, and also as an option for folks with first-run Switch units (like me) who are nearing needing to replace the unit. Microsoft and Sony are demonstrating clearly why launching new hardware right now is a pain in the butt. Semiconductor shortages are even impacting automobile sales. Why would Nintendo want to try to launch a new design in this market at this time? Valve is taking a major risk announcing their unit now. Hopefully when release time comes there will be chips aplenty, unless they've found a parts supplier making lots of stuff nobody else wants.
I doubt I will touch my switch every again after I get one of these steam decks.
@progx If they sell the Steam dock 100 to 300 dollars they won't be selling many considering you can use this on 3rd party docks.
I think you are looking at about 80 dollars max when it is released.
@TanukiTrooper The Nvidia Shield TV is one of the best bits of hardware I have bought. Fantastic for streaming games and emulation.
The Shield has been a big success for Nvidia. I bought the original and still use it all the time.
GeForce Now being free for short game bursts is also great. Playing Shadow of the Tomb Raider yesterday on it, it ran brillianty
@Ventilator indeed. I think people assume when someone is critical of the device that we are saying the device is bad. It's not a bad device (if bulky looking and the internal storage is bad for all digital device), but it lacks that wow factor the Switch had. 10-20 million units is not a failure it's just not great sales. But, we have to remember that there have been handheld PCs released in the past year and all have lacked market penetration of mainstream appeal and they all offered the same thing the Steam Deck is offering. The response to think is well there are 100,000 PC games and Steam sales. That is true, but to the average consumer that is not a selling point as they only care about 1-5 games per-year. And no one is going to drop $400USD just to play old games like Dragon Age Origins, COD4 and Persona 4 Golden. It is game exclusives that drive sales and new titles that capture the appeal. Playing portable Doom appeal is over and now people care about what's next from Nintendo's portfolio as that drives Switch purchases. Steam Deck does not have that killer app, but portable Steam. The Vita failed for that very reason poor internal storage, expensive memory format and it lacked killer apps till several years into its lifecycle which at that point Sony pulled the plug and ported the best Vita games to PS4.
When people ask "what is the mainstream appeal of this system to Average Joe" what we are asking is what does this offer that the Switch does not at a cheaper price point. And Graphics is not a selling point as the Vita got creamed by the 3DS. That and Valve has a poor history of marketing their hardware like Steam Machines and Steam Controllers. So the Steam brand alone is not enough to sell the machine when it looks like a knockoff Switch. It's not a very appealing looking machine and the name is not very good.
But, I do believe it will have a niche of hardcore PC enthusiasts who will buy it. We have to remember most of Stream's user base are not people with massively powerful rigs they are people still rocking old GTX980s because they either don't have the budget to upgrade or are happy with their PC. Those people will likely not splurge on a Steam Deck they will likely save up for a new RTX card or just buy a PS5, XSX or a Switch for their exclusive catalog. I predict this machine will see 10-20 million sales which is great, but far from a Switch killer and will likely seem obsolete when Nintendo announced the Switch's successor in a year and it will likely be backwards compatible with your current library of Switch games.
Is this a Switch killer? Not likely no. Is it a Switch competitor? Probably not. Is it a neat niche device for PC enthusiasts who will likely enjoy it. It is yes.
One reason it will take a low brow is that it requires CLOUD to work and to activate steam games. Without internet it's pretty worthless device as it requires internet to access and play games. So to think it would hamper Switch is just a Ludicous Insanity on the reviewers. This is why steam suffers from no Internet No Gaming.
@Marurun hate to burst your bubble OLED is no upgrade it's still v2 Switch itself. A Pro or whatever name is coming and nothing you do on rants here will stop it.
@SwitchForce Yes I am sure Nintendo will release a Pro version but not till they milk every penny from the OLED version.
@SwitchForce
I don't understand. I never stated the Switch OLED was an upgrade (it's not save the larger screen and internal memory bump, and I guess the Mariko chipset tweak for those running first-gen units).
I'm not convinced the Switch Pro is coming. I'm sure Nintendo has a plan for it, but I think they also have a plan for a Switch successor, and if the market sustains the current switch perfectly well the next Switch may actually be a whole new generation and skip right over a Pro release. I don't think Nintendo wants to re-live the New 3DS debacle.
@hammers1man I'm happy to hear that you have enjoyed the Nvidia Shield. I haven't used it myself, but I have used PlayStation TV and Steam Link which were both awful and laggy and absolutely turned me off the idea of streaming any game from machine to another device. I can't use Switch Cloud in Australia, but I wouldn't want to anyway. But I am happy to hear you have had success with NVidia, who I wasn't criticizing, but Valve, who aren't particularly good at hardware.
Hands on:
https://youtu.be/oLtiRGTZvGM
I never got into gaming on a PC but I loved the Steam games that were on the 360. The Orange Box was packed full of value and the Left4Dead series was AWESOME!!!!
@hammers1man well, you can run a USB-C to HDMI cable through it. The dock will be there for enthusiasts, but it will be more than $80. It’s going to be similar to those laptop docks, which for a good one, starts around $100 or so. Especially, if you want more I/O (USB, Ethernet), it’ll add to the hardware cost.
Valve left the ball in your court for hooking it up to a monitor or TV. I would imagine, the preferred way, will be a USB-C (or Thunderbolt 3) connected monitor.
@RadioHedgeFund These are really great points and I agree with the fundamentals regarding Nintendo’s secret sauce (stealth handheld games), but indies are crushing on Switch without that philosophy.
And let’s get real, Valve just announced the Switch Pro.
@Wexter I think you have to imagine whatever segment of gamers was clamoring for a Switch Pro have to be looking at the Steam Deck.
I think you’re being disingenuous about the games it’s going to run. They showed off Portal 2 and featured (but did not show) Doom Eternal and Control. Steam Deck should be outperforming PS4 (albeit at 720p) and be able to play most current PC releases. We’ll find out more for sure soon, but Steam Deck is not a throwback machine for Dragon Age: Origins and P4Golden (but it can be)... more likely it’s running Dragon Age Inquisition and Persona 5 Royal.
I agree with you that it’s not a Switch killer, but I’m not as sure as you are. Nintendo can’t carry hardware alone, and Valve is offering a really intriguing solution to the rest of the puzzle, namely portable indie games and 3rd party titles. It really depends what you want a Switch for. I think if it was just Nintendo games, the Gamecube and Wii U would have been more successful.
@Spiders Did they, or did they announce an underpowered PC?
If you are a PC gamer you want the best of everything and therefore only a custom rig with the best parts will do. Why compromise for the sake of portability, a portability that likely won’t be used outside the house?
I think the machine great and it has the potential to become an emulation powerhouse. I’d buy one for that alone. But I don’t see the larger steam customer base buying it.
in my eyes this is a great market for people that want to get into PC gaming without the worry of buying or building your own PC. ive mainly been a nintendo player all my life but this has me excited for all the PC games ive missed out on. and all for the price i wouldve payed for a switch pro
I get the feeling that this will do OK, but fall well short of expectations,. This doesn't seem like something that will challenge the switch.
This isn't something Nintendo can be concerned for.
Also, I don't think the $400 model which is the closest price point to the switch makes it adequate. You can expand the storage, sure, but you are basically spending more than you bargained for. You have the basic unit, but you don't have a dock, you are only given one controller, so the expenses actually is upwards to $500 just for the cheapest unit alone. If you're going to play PC games, then you play it on the PC. PC games are notoriously uncompressed compared to Nintendo games and as it is an exclusively digital downloads, yeah, you'll run out of storage fast.
If you really are going to invest your money on this, I'd recommend to get the $700 model, get the microSD's and all the necessary bells and whistles.
Was waiting for a Switch Pro...now it's not necessary anymore
This device feels catered to me. I don't have a powerful PC, my only modern game console is the Switch. I'll finally be able to play larger games without fear of my device detonating, and the ability to install third party game launchers like Epic Games Store means I'll be able to play even more that I haven't before, and all portably. I'll wait for the reviews to come out before deciding, though. I'm cautiously optimistic.
@link422007 The bigger picture isn't that it is a bit more expensive than the OLED Switch it's that the games are a fraction of the price of equivalent Switch games.
PC gaming is the most affordable gaming and this will be the most affordable portable gaming also.
@Zuljaras Oh, wait.
You can install Good Old Games on this device?
If that's the case, then hell yeah. I can finally play some classic PC games I've been wanting to play but never been able to make my own custom PC. I can play games like Thief, System Shock, Deus Ex, and so many more classics. But can you just have GoG and not both it and Steam installed at the same time?
@Spiders I'm rebutting the concept that because Steam has so many games it is an instant buy. When most of the games that people think of like Doom Eternal they either already played on PS4, Xbone or even dare I say the Switch if they wanted to play it portably. Portal 2 is not even all that demanding of a game and while neat it is not a system seller as people would be more interested in Portal 3. People buy systems for new games and exclusive that drive sales. Breath of the Wild sold the Switch because it was a large and amazing game was and it pushed early adoption even among non-gamers (that and also set the tone that this is not just a handheld you can play on your TV as in that same year we got Mario Odyssey and Xenoblade 2). There is nothing like that for Steam Deck that pushes people to need to purchase it. Sure it would be neat to play games like Dragon Age Inquisition on the go, or even the Mass Effect Trilogy... but... and this is a big but that initial storage of 64GB at the base price is a massive turnoff. You cannot get MELE or DAI on the machine with that much storage and that is at the more affordable price range. This makes those on the fence about the product that doesn't have a massive budget wince which is why this is really a niche and enthusiast product first and not something that can capture the mainstream imagination.
For PC gamers it will be a supplemental device if they have a powerful rig with anything from an RTX 2060 to an RTX 3090. And for those still running a GTX 980 or equivalent card they'd probably rather save up for a new RTX card rather than buy a system they have no modular control over. That and for PC gamers who travel a lot they already have a gaming laptop that has far more storage than what a base Steam Deck comes with and it's also something they can do their workflow with.
This leaves those who might want to upgrade their Switch to something more powerful. But, while this is neat I think most would rather wait a year for what Nintendo has cooking as they have Metroid Dread, No More Heroes 3 and Zelda Breath of the Wild 2 to hold them over for a long while. Let's also be realistic Switch Pro was never going to be a thing as Nintendo falls in a 5-year hard lifecycle for their products and odds are any Switch successor will be announced within the next year and released within the next two years. That and because of Nintendo's exclusives and renewed 3rd party support they will already have a more appealing product within a year or two. That means that the immediate advantages this product has over the Switch will be lessened very quickly once that happens if not complete obsolescence. Valve has a bad habit of releasing hardware and discontinuing service after a year which burns the average consumer base.
I could be wrong but based on what I see this does not offer anything that someone not in the hardcore consumer base will want. People here may want one, but if Valve wants to be serious about this they NEED to actually release exclusive games and actually market this thing.
EDIT: And the Gamecube did not sell as well as it should not due to a lack of games, but due to the pure dominance of the lesser-powered PS2 (which once again repeat after me "more powerful hardware does not equal better sales"). That and it sold about two million less than the Xbox so it was not a massive blowout there. As for the Wii U that was a marketing disaster and few mainstream consumers hardly knew what it was despite being the best Nintendo console ever made up to that point. The Switch is Nintendo on their game and that is hard to overcome as even with shortages the Switch still sells millions of units a month. Remember when it comes to the handheld space Nintendo has never taken an L. Sega and Sony have tried none have overcome.
@link422007 Which at that point you'd probably be better off buying a pre-built for that upwards of $800USD and get a rig with a RTX 3000 series card in it. The price on this piece of kit really skyrockets once you start looking at it.
@russell-marlow Well they said you can install Windows on it so that means GOG, Battle.net, Epic store, Microsoft store.
You can attach keyboard and a mouse to it and play like that if you like.
The dock is not available now but the confirmed that it works with 3rd party docks and there is no problem getting it to work on a TV as well.
It is just a handheld hybrid like the Switch but without physical media (only SD cards) for PC gaming.
The should just nail the hardware reliability and this will be a huge hit. Especially because some handheld PCs like GPD win are more expensive than this and with less power. This will have a proprietary PCU.
I hope they don't screw this up! It could be a game changer!
@Wexter AAA games are being released on Steam all the time. I see people buying this to actually play new games also. Most games come out on PC so you will have new games. The biggest problem for me with Switch is the lack of great games I haven't played, the Nintendo store is full of indie stuff more suitable to mobile gaming on your phone or old game ports.
@hammers1man Price point. You do realize most new games are around 60-80GB in size right? You do realize you need to spend at least $80USD to expand the base unit right? Also, lack of great games on the Switch? This month alone we are getting Skyward Sword HD and Monster Hunter Stories 2. That and next month you have No More Heroes 3. Have you also beaten all of your backlog? If you have then damn I guess I need to get up to speed with your time management skillz.
Also what exclusives drive the sales of this machine. Steam Machines failed earlier this gen because they got outworked by the PS4 and Xbone. What compelling exclusive software will this thing have that you cannot get on Switch, PS4/PS5 and Xbone/XSX? From what I can see outside of games from last-gen not yet ported the answer is... nothing that compels a purchase by mainstream audiences.
@Wexter Price point of games is the more important factor in the long run. Switch games are ridiculously expensive, you are paying way over the odds for old game ports. I just can't believe the actual prices the store is asking for games just because it's a portable device.
People will save themselve a fortune on 3rd party games that will run way better than on a Switch.
So is the device more expensive if you intend to buy a lot of games.You don't have to own a PC to see how cheap you can get PC games for. To me the Switch is the most expensive gaming out there.
@Yorumi It is complicated for sure. But software drives hardware sales and this seems like a hardware first design and most accessories needed to turn this into a "Switch replacement" turn this thing from $400USD (which is already not cheap) into $600USD which at that point you might as well just buy a PC. The Switch at $300USD comes with everything you need out of the box (controllers, dock, and necessary cables) that and due to physical media the 32GB of internal storage is really not that hard to work around (unlike Steam Deck).
That and we have to remember the first year of a console is critical. The Wii U lacked a killer app for its the first year and was never able to recapture the market. The Switch came out swinging with BotW and that captured the attention of even non-gamers because they had to play that game. The Steam Deck is neat, but it is a niche device that lacks that killer app that compels people to jump in with that pricepoint once you start uncovering the underlinging charges.
I saw gameplay footage this is a beast,
This is my next switch pro 🤣 not just a cheap screen for 50€
The Zune of portable gaming. Going to be pretty funny looking back on all the gushing "This is going to rule!" comments here in like a year and half when no-one can even remember what this thing was called.
I would buy it if I had a lot of steam games, but because I don't have some, I will just stick to the Switch. I probably wait until I get some solid reviews before thinking on buying it.
These are the same arguments made when it was the Game Boy vs Game Gear and the DS vs PSP.
To be fair, if something was going to disrupt the market it would of been the Nividia Shield.
@ecco6t9 I think because the Shield was actually a tablet it was never in the portable handheld market(you needed the controller to play games). Also it was an android device limited to android games. I haven't touched mine in years, I think the misses uses it now and again as a tablet for online banking.
@progx Steam has more active monthly users than any of the consoles.
They sold out and it was a huge cluster...
@CivilMadman The Zune was much better than the ipod though. I went through ipods like crazy. Still have my 120gb Zune.
My first impression is that will not do well. It seems to me, PC gamers have different expectations of what kind of experience they want and this seems to be too niche.
@Trajan they had a large base when they attempted Steam Machines too.
Valve may have a huge active user base, but it doesn't necessarily mean people will buy your hardware when you've been available on your PC OS (Windows, macOS and Linux) of choice all this time.
@progx STeam machines were console replacements. Consoles are for generally casual gamers and don't really appeal to anyone who wants to play on PC.
However: the PC + Switch combo has been very strong. PC gamers want this device. People that like the switch and want third party games want this device.
The pre-orders sold out like crazy.
Buy Witcher 3 on Switch for $60, or get it on Steam for $8 with much better performance?
@Trajan it won't really matter. Will there be a lot of PC Gamers buying this device? Absolutely. Will this hurt the Switch? Not at all. The Switch grabs from a larger audience of the population than Steam does.
I don't care what their user base states, outside of my gaming friends, my occasional gaming friends don't know or care about it. Steam had a larger player base in 2013 when they announced the Steam Machines too, then they ran away from it and pretended SteamOS didn't exist. I've been down this road with them before.
Again, I want the Steam Deck to do well, but I'm not ditching the Switch for it. Also, Nintendo will NEVER make the most powerful system on the block. The Switch has some features the Deck does not have at all: motion controls, local multiplayer and includes a dock for $299 or $349 with an OLED screen.
I have my OLED Switch preordered and the Steam Deck 64GB model.
I hope it does well, and I hope it looks and especially feels good - that will make it or break it. The high-end price tag only makes sense. I'd probably save and splurge for the top storage.
He said the same thing with the Steam machine and that sold less then 500k units. It’s not gonna sell “millions” for multitude of reasons
PC gamers are gonna prefer to stick with their better machines and most of the Switch base won’t bite due to the higher price barrier/not gonna be sold in common retailers/Horrid button design/and most importantly lack of the first parties.
Also no: Emulation/pirating on it isn’t advertised feature for a reason so only a minority would use that machine to play it that way
See? $399 for the Switch itself is definitely premium-point. Thankfully Nintendo also aggressively approaches price as much as Valve did, so if a second-gen Switch had similar specs, expect a similar price too.
If anything, Steam Deck will have cheaper games for sure versus the eshop. Also, Steam deck has a huge library of games existing already. And the DPAD looks better to use. Joycon still has the worst dpad.
The only first party game I play is Smash bros and formerly nintendo/console exclusives were Monster Hunter. MH World portable anyone?
@Trajan I agree. Steam deck will definitely eat into the 3rd party sales of switch that have steam ports.
But what will keep me from ditching the Switch that are non 1st party: Sega Ages Herzog Zwei, Aleste Collection, Rolling Gunner, Darius Cozmic Arcade collection, future M2 ShotTrigger games , Arcade Archives, etc. And the occasional 2 player tabletop mode.
But yeah honestly Nintendo needs to work on their exclusives more. Developers have been porting to steam more and more so thats definitely a plus for the Steam deck. For example Capcom allowed Monster Hunter to come to steam, Capcom Arcade Stadium was intially switch but its coming to steam too (or its already on steam). etc. etc. Main system seller for me to get a switch in the past was just really Monster Hunter and Smash Bros. The rest of my Switch games library have a steam port already. So yeah more 1st party or exclusives needed.
@progx No I don't think it will hurt the Switch that much, as switch has a large player base. If it hurts them at all, it will be handheld players wanting to play big games ported or not to switch at better performance for less money. PC gaming is still largely more of a hardcore gamer thing, and consoles like the switch is a casual device.
Outside of my gaming friends, they don't know anything about games either. This device isn't marketed towards non-gamers.
This Steam OS (Steam OS 3) is a bit different.
This device has gyro aiming, as shown in the IGN video.
The dock isn't necessary to hook it up to your TV or monitor.
If anything, like PC gaming, this will continue to eat into PS and Xbox.
@Wexter We'll have to wait and see to settle our argument. From what I understand, the Steam Deck should be crushing most games by dint of targeting an 800p screen. The IGN report said medium and high settings at 800p, but we'll have to see how games actually run. All that said, my gut feeling is most new releases will run on Steam Deck, and games on both will run better on Steam Deck than Switch. If it succeeds, Steam Deck can become a performance target that's going to be a lot easier to hit for developers than Switch/ARM.
How Steam Deck performs docked is another matter — I have no idea how that hardware will perform outputting to 1080p or 4K.
If that's the case, I think you're right that a lot of the hidden costs and technical aspects make this more niche than a Switch, but I think it's closer to Vita territory with a lot more upside than Sony's last handheld.
You make a lot of great points I agree with in isolation, I just can't back a claim that Nintendo hasn't left some lunch on the table and Valve isn't going to gobble it up. The price is really strong, especially and as price of entry to PC gaming.
I don't think it's a Switch killer but I think this hurts Nintendo.
Many people are going to say … but Nintendo first party games, many of these people are the same complaining about rehashing wii u property and failing to release new games. N
The switch olef upgrade wasn’t good enough. 2 generations of hardware behind at least and while the switch will continue to be used, I would guess new sales are going to fall drastically due to this device barring some amazing failure.
That said everything looks good on paper. Playing is a different thing. But yah, if I’m Nintendo I’m concerned.
@Yomogi it doesn’t need to do well in Japan, even remotely. This myth is something that hasn’t been a big issue in a very long time, the USA market let alone the global Market outside of Asia is more than large enough to succeed without trying to interrupt the patriotism of Japan.
@Trajan You're missing (and proving) my original point, which to reiterate is - superior tech specs don't guarantee success.
It wasn't true for monochrome Gameboy versus the technically far superior 256 colour Atari Lynx (or Sega Game Gear) and it wasn't the case for DS versus the superior PSP, or for 3DS versus Vita, or any of the other technically superior handhelds that were thoroughly thrashed in the marketplace by whatever Nintendo was selling at the time.
And it wasn't true for the technically superior Zune (or Realplayer, etc.) versus the usability and convenience,, etc. of the iPod. You're literally making my point: the technically inferior iPod not only thoroughly dominated the portable music/media player market, but most people don't even remember the Zune was now, or even knew what it was when it was being sold.
On a personal anecdotal note to match yours though: I am writing this whilst listening to music on my fifth gen iPod - it was the first one with a colour screen, released 17 years ago. It has been in literally daily use for all of that 17 years, travelled with me to something like a dozen countries, and worked perfectly until a few weeks ago when the original 80GB hard drive finally died (one drop on the ground too many...) but the next day I had the old 80GB drive swapped out for a 120 GB SSD and I expect to be using it for the next 17 years at least, so you know, different folks, different experiences!
@RadioHedgeFund I haven't played Mario Odyssey, but I very much noticed the "portable design" in BOTW and it marred the game greatly for me. I presume this was the rationale behind removing the traditional dungeons, because they would take too long to complete. The design was still flawed however, because it was completely possible to pick the game up for a 30 minute blast and get nowhere, because I would see somewhere I wanted to climb, and by the time I'd traveled there and started climbing, it would start raining and an entire 30 minutes of gameplay would go absolutely nowhere. Fot this reason I don't rate BOTW as the greatest Zelda by a long way.
@Snatcher Nintendo has never acknowledged or even acted like others to be competitors against them. Even as far back in the 90's, Nintendo never had smear campaigns against Sony or Sega. Nintendo simply ignores them. An existence of a PC-powered Switch doesn't irk them one bit. In fact, it's likely when the Switch successor does come out, it will probably be as powerful or weaker than the Steam handheld is now. Nintendo really doesn't care what other people are doing.
@Ramen756 The Wii U is proof of how many customers will automatically purchase a console because it's the only place to play Nintendo first party titles. Not that many, apparently.
Switch players only wish they had the option to sacrifice battery life for extra performance.
How will the hardware perform? Clearly, it will outperform the Switch by a country mile.
Prediction: Nintendo will drop the price of the OLED by $50 before launch. The current model will drop $30 and the Lite will drop $20.
@WhiteUmbrella No, the WiiU is what happens when Nintendo is being downright antagonistic towards the consumers. I thought a lot about buying a WiiU when I saw all the great games, but every time I opted not to due to the many downsides of the console. I would have bought a simplified WiiU that came with a pro controller for $250.
@WhiteUmbrella I often feel getting nowhere was often the point of BOTW. It was the journey that was as important as the destination, like a good walk in the countryside! I did miss the traditional dungeons and hope they manage to add some in to the sequel.
Well, I already have something similar to this in the GPD Win Max and perhaps what people AREN’T saying here - but I will - is that you could probably install a certain program on this machine and play your switch games at greater resolutions than you can on the actual switch.
The same goes for all other Nintendo systems too - without the need for an online subscription.
Now - of course whether you’re happy to do this is up to you. I personally prefer to buy the originals on switch. However at the moment due to personal circumstances I don’t have my switch dock with me. So for skyward sword I bought it on my switch but am currently playing it in 4K on my PC rather than in 720P on the small screen.
Just pointing out that if you were so inclined then the steam machine would still allow you to play your switch games and in better quality.
@norwichred I have a modest physical collection of Switch games, around 40+, but no Switch console. The Steam Deck is really tempting, but I live in the UK, and strictly speaking playing games from backups of those games is still illegal here, even though I think it shouldn't be. I'm still tempted to get it anyway.
If the Switch and this were released at the same time, it still wouldn't have beaten the Switch, Nintendo would have adopted a more aggressive pricing strategy as well.
But for arguments sake, lets say that the available market for handheld is 100m units (it's probably a bit more than that, but lets round it off to a round number).
If both were released at the same time, when the dust settles, The Deck would be sitting on 20-30 million sales and the Switch (at a reduced price), would be sitting on 70-80 million units sold.
So in the end Nintendo would still win that race, but you'd be a fool for thinking it "won't effect them".
If you gotta hand over a potential 30% of your market share to a competitor, you're not gonna be happy about it, no matter how you try and spin it.
@HalBailman Honestly while I don't expect them to really be pressured enough to drop the price, if this does come gunning for the Switch and somehow DO pressure it....
Nintendo can afford to drop the Switch's more than Valve could afford to drop this thing's price further.
Simply sell, the Switch sells at a profit while everything this article mention seem to point that even the cheapest Steam Deck(whose storage size and speed might be an unstated weakness for the larger size of PC games) is likely sold at a loss.
So Nintendo likely could just drop their price from "Sell at a profit" to "Break even prices" which, iirc the profit margin of Switch consoles being roughly 50$, could mean the OLED for ~300$, previous baseline Switch for 250$ and Switch Lite for 150$.
So unless Steam Deck can drop below that 400$ asking price, we'd be talking differences of 100-250$ by which point the answer would easily be "Sure it's weaker but we already know it has games that were popular enough to sell 20-35 million copies sold and cost a ***** load less more".
But to drop price the Steam Deck would need to go from "likely sell at a loss" to "sell at a greater loss" just to catch up to Nintendo selling at "Selling at just no profit but no loss either" if Nintendo wanted to go that route.
Ultimately though Nintendo was always adverse to selling at a loss and why would they not? The last time they did that was the WiiU and we know how much of a disaster that was.
Ultimately though, my personal thought is I dislike consoles being sold at a loss to drive up the demand for "better" hardware. Sony and Playstation doing so is the main reason we keep having these forced generational leap even on PC where, unlike the heavily discounted of these consoles, players would always need to pony up the "real" cost of hardware which often resulted in "Games being cheaper on PC" frequently being offset by "PC hardware cost a heckton to upgrade to keep up" every times a new generation landed. And tbh it worked for Sony/Microsoft because "look at our affordable all-in-one hardware package" is one of the chief contributor to a lot of players(and thus developers and genres) going from PC to consoles for a while.
And some justify it because "Tech has to progress" but I wonder.
Seeing the cost in added cut taken from game sales, the rising cost of game development leading the standard AAA game sale price to rise from 60$USD to 70$USD, the constant tales of overworked development studios and burnouts and toxic work environment.... I wonder if this progression truly is natural or entirely being purely "forced" just so a few(already extremely rich) industry players can find a way to stand out by simply throwing more money at things and (an extremely limited and increasingly same-looking) visual spectacle instead of competing for who can make the most unique and compelling games.
But then again I'm the kind of people who's growing to NOT want prettier game but, as the quote someone else posted at some point, rather want " shorter 'worst' looking games made by better paid and less overworked development teams".
And while I say 'worst' looking games, I mean purely from a technical standpoint because what I'm talking about is stuff like Hades which managed to be extremely stylish and compelling WITHOUT driving it's entire development team into the ground and burnout.
But I know that kind of goal won't be a thing as long as industry players keep artificially subsidizing "hardware generation upgrade" before the tech is ready to NOT sell at a loss(and be better understood/grasped by studios) in a situation where the games that keep getting the most coverage are always the most "cinematographic"(i.e.: the kind usually being made by the studios and publishers most able to overwork their team even as they throw millions at the development and marketing to achieve said "cinematographic" cachet that increasingly look the same whichever AAA game you're looking at even as "lesser" industry players struggle to stand out due to lacking the budget to create this marketed cinematographic style most gaming media focus on meaning so many unique and compelling experience can often fly under the radar).
@Restryder Pretty much as you say.
The only reason this is able to be compared to the Switch at all is that it's priced so aggressively that it's likely being sold at a notable loss(which Valve likely intend to make up on by being the monopoly of the PC market taking a cut from every game... and hear me out, if this attain dominance as some wishes for the result would be that a lot of those Steam sales would become increasingly less common and the algorithm would increasingly start skewing toward the full prices 60-70USD "AAA" millions-copies-sellers game Steam can take the bigger cut from than "indie game that's only 20USD and sell only a respectable 250k copies")
But thinking this overtake the Switch alone forget the Switch already sells at a profit(unlike this) and could turn that thing's strategy on it's face by just.... starting to sell Switch at a lower price.
Sure the difference between the Switch OLED and the (cheapest, most are more costly) Steam Deck is only 50$.
But what if the OLED drop it's price and the difference becomes 100$?
Or what if the base Switch model continue being sold and ALSO drop by 50$? We'd be talking a different no longer of 100$USD but of 150$USD.
And Nintendo has a lot of "home advantage" in the simple marketing department due to simply already be established as something discussed not just on hobbyist sites but also in mainstream medias such as newspapers and TV. Ontop of already being highly visible in physical stores as mainstream as Walmart(an arena where the Steam Deck doesn't offer -retailers- much reason to sell an all-digital product offering no reasons for consumers to return to the store).
It could still do well. Mind you. But I think the margin for success might be different than people expects.
This could be a very solid success at 5-10 millions units sold. But I don't think (because so much just.... marketing logistics alone is working against this device) it may ever reach beyond 20-25 millions units sold in it's lifetime.
Plus there's the matter that we still don't know what the initial supply will be like. The Steam Machines was such a fiasco because *highly nonstandardized if I recall) production was chiefly handled by third parties whom Valve merely threw the SteamOS at.
Which, unless Valve massively overhauled their negotiations with component supply chains and productions plant could lead to a potentially limited launch very much seeing the same stock shortage issues already affecting Xbox and PS5.... but potentially while selling even smaller amount of units.
There's a lot of unknowns about whether this will "suceed" or "fail".
For another factor: while people are writing a lot about this in comparison to the position of Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft and talking about the 90-120 millions strong supposedly "active" Steam userbase... they're forgeting that said userbase is ALSO a thing Steam Deck would be competing it.
Because these people are Steam users -because- they already have a gaming-capable PC so before Steam Deck can convince people to jump from other consoles to the Steam Deck... it need to convince enough of it's very own userbase that this is a device they indeed want in addition to or in stead of their PC.
@Ludovsky Sales on PC are aggressive price wise because you have e stores competing against eachother which benefits the customer. Nintendo store is more expensive than any other e store because they have no competition mainly in the portable handheld market. Xbox has game pass which is fantastic value, PS store sales are better than on Switch. If a person owns a Switch and a Steam deck why would they buy the under performing more expensive Switch version of a game over the PC version on Steam Deck. This will hurt Switch 3rd party sales. This is actually a good thing for Switch owners who play 3rd party games as you might see more realistic pricing for old game ports.
I don't see Nintendo dropping their prices for first party games though. Releasing ancient Wii games at full price sums up the greed of the company to me. Skyward Sword and the Switch OLED are a rip off plain and simple, not sure how anyone can defend that kind of overpricing their products by Nintendo.
@Ludovsky I look at it as simply a console almost 4 years old and at a point it's ready for a discount to push it further. That's the general strategy for all gaming companies, especially when there's new competition around. That includes PS5 and XBX as they should enter their first Christmas with plenty of stock and games, not just the Steam Deck. On such an old system, Nintendo could absorb an even greater discount and still sell at profit.
Glad I didn't get the Switch OLED. This looks more appealing of an upgrade.
You should really compare it to the non-OLED Switch, because this has an LCD screen. 400 is still good compared to 300, even though you're also paying for a more polished design, cool joycon etc. with the Switch.
@WhiteUmbrella
1) the Wii and 3DS products tell a different story. Wii pushed just as many units as the PS3 and Xbox 360 and the DS line beat the PSP so bad Sony left the handheld scene altogether.
2) since many switch players play casually, there really isn’t a need or want to adjust performance for each game. Not going to deny that would be a cool feature though.
3) bold claim that can’t be made when the only footage we have is of a glorified dev kit.
I have a Nintendo to play Nintendo 1st party games, then some awesome 3rd party and indies. I have an Xbox/pc for everything else. As cool as this might get seem, it didn’t work for Sony to try to take on Nintendo and the handheld gaming market. Gabe could have probably made more money just making half life 3 and porting it to consoles.
@Ramen756 Mentioning the Wii U wasn't meant to prove that Nintendo products can't be successful, it was meant to show that Nintendo can't rely on a core fanbase inevitably buying their system because that is the only way to access their franchises. Whatever the reason the Wii U sold only 12 million, I'm pretty sure it wasn't because people believed it wouldn't have a Mario or Zelda game.
The specs aren't a bold claim, they're set in stone. This is Valve, not some indie start-up. I've never had a pc, but my son is a pc gamer, and I created an account so that I could easily gift him Steam credit. He says he's not interested in the Steam Drive and he does have a Switch. Since I can only get one, I decided I'll take it. That way also if he changes his mind it will still be there. I've got a lot of physical games, and apart from the very rare exception, I don't buy games as a download, to the extent that if it isn't physical I just won't buy it at all, typically. However, with the spec of this thing it's just too tempting, and while I have been waiting to bite for a Switch, and have a physical collection without a console, Nintendo aren't getting £310 for an oled screen when I can get much better functionality for £350.
No Nintendo games? Meh. No physical games? Double meh. To me digital games have very little value. On the positive side, Steam prices (especially during sales) reflect this reality.
Yikes. So many people who seemingly know very little about PC gaming, and are making up the most laughable reasoning as to why this will be inferior to the Switch. Look, I get it, this is a Nintendo fan site, but some of you just look absolutely ridiculous with your justifications here. You don't need to want to buy this, and it shouldn't upset you that other people do.
@RadioHedgeFund - "Your steam library is not built for portable play." Speak for yourself. There are plenty of games on Steam that work great portable. Plenty of them got ported to the Switch for that very reason. Now people can play those games portably without having to buy them all again. I think you're just being very short sighted in what games you're considering.
@Zuljaras most steam games requirement a login before you can launch the games. I don’t see this being any different.
@Dirty0814 I remember Steam having offline mode but it was long ago.
Nowadays I buy my PC games on GOG.
@Sev_07 it’s completely not worth it. You can buy a freaking laptop better specked then this. The 400 model has literally no hard drive for games for steam and the 256 model would allow you to only have one or two games. The only feasible model is the 512 and that’s 640. You can buy a laptop. Enter specked for that with a tab of hard drive and can literally use it for everything else as well. Also deck is not portable friendly, remember you have to login to steam to launch most games which requires internet and most games require a internet connection now as well.
@RadioHedgeFund I don’t think that’s necessarily true. I got into PC gaming because I can’t afford a new console, and my 5 year old PC is decent enough (maybe about a PS4 Pro equivalent?). The game prices are better for indies generally, I can play older games, and I can play new games on Gamepass.
PC gaming is my budget option because I had the hardware. I think that’s the case for a lot more people than the loud minority that is rig obsessed and can spend thousands on gaming.
Like @Geonjaha said, many great games on PC are suited for portable play. In fact, all the games I’m playing or recently played on PC (Dragon’s Dogma: DA, Subnautica, Hypnospace Outlaw) are also on Switch.
@Joekun Fair points, but a nice thing about digital on PC is that the stores aren’t tied to console generations. You really have your games forever.
I feel like people are overlooking the fact that this device is running on Linux so it relies on proton to play much of the games on Steam, many of which still have compatibility issues. Also, the jump in quality from the base model to the next one up also means spending over $100 more dollars for any real storage. This is less of a Switch competitor and more of a competitor to handheld PCs like GDP Win. If it's anything like past Valve hardware, it will ride a wave of hype and then fizzle out, leaving a bigger impact of on Steam's back end rather than a large user base like how the Steam Controller became Steam Input.
@Wexter That’s not entirely true either. You can use a USB-C cord or a third-party dock, and it uses SD cards just like Switch that are super cheap.
You’re right that Steam/PC file sizes are not optimized for storage like Switch games are and that could be a headache for a handheld device, but again you’re assuming that every PC game is this AAA, 4K texture having monster.
DOTA 2 is 9.8 GB, Civilization VI is 4GB, Valheim is 1 GB, Rimworld is 300 MB, etc.
PC players play games like Rocket League, Among Us, Dead Cells, etc., too!
Games like GTAV are going to be a problem out of the box for sure, but SD cards are very cheap — it’s hardly a dealbreaker.
@RadioHedgeFund Literally any game can be played for a short burst, if you want. I’ve played Skyrim, finished a quest, been done. Played Dark Souls, beat a couple bosses, been done. At other times, I’ve played much shorter games for longer durations, perhaps to work on a section for a speed run. It’s less dependent on the game, and more dependent on the player. Barring MMORPGs, which intentionally stifle the players development to rope them into paying for the subscription fee.
@NIN10DOXD Why would Valve make a handheld that is incompatible with games on their own platform? It’s even better that it’s running a Linux release over Windows, because users will be able to access their GOG library, which contains many Linux ports, as well. Not to mention that emulation on Linux is pretty stellar. Oh, and you can install Windows if you prefer, as well. They’re doing what Nintendo should be doing, honestly!
@NIN10DOXD Valve acknowledged issues with Proton and anti-cheat software and said they’re working to solve before Steam Deck releases...so we’ll see.
@RadioHedgeFund I could say that pretty much everything but multiplayer games can be played portably lmao
@Spiders plus not to mention valve games download way faster then games on the eshop
@BloodNinja The compatibility issue has to do mostly with Anti-Cheat software that relies on Windows OS, so some games like Destiny 2 and Apex can’t run on Linux. Valve says they’re working with a company to fix, but we’ll see.
@Ramen756 Sony made the vita
@Dirty0814 tell me where you can buy a laptop with better specs. Please back up this claim
@SwankyKong64 Not for me! Steam downloads take for...ev...er.... for me. Have no issues with Switch (in Sleep mode), PS4, or PC Gamepass. Not sure why — maybe router port settings — but I don’t think it’s inherently faster than any other storefront.
@Spiders Yes, that is nice. Although it can be challenging to run really old games meant to run on the operating systems of their day. But with a lot of effort one can make it work.
@Spiders that’s odd. I don’t have Ethernet but steam downloads games on my laptop quickly and games slowly on switch which is in my same room. Idk guess that’s a me problem lol
@Spiders Gotcha, that makes sense. I’m sure there will be fixes for that, it feels like Valve is finally making a big push to distinguish itself over Epic games! I’m sure they will grab the opportunity to fix such loose ends. Well, I hope!
@BloodNinja Plus the fact that Steam Deck puts a problem for all Linux gamers to the forefront is really positive.
@Joekun I’ve only gone back to the PS3/XBOX360 era games I missed and have had no problems yet. I picked up the original Deus Ex for like 2 bucks and am hoping I have no issues when I eventually get around to it.
@Geonjaha It’s not though. Games designed /for/ the Switch are cleverly built with handheld play in mind as well as TV. Your steam games are PC games that you /can/ play on a handheld but that doesn’t mean they were designed that way. The PSP and the PSVita both suffered with titles built for the wrong direction.
@Snatcher lol what? Yeah no, I don’t think this thing is going to drive Nintendo out of the handheld market. Especially considering the fact that the handheld market is their entire market now. They don’t have anything else.
@BloodNinja there are a lot of modern gaming sensibilities like auto save which play well with the idea of portable play but still weren’t built for that play style.
Nintendo have these subtle design cues that were the results of many weeks of brainstorming how they can make titles that can be played for 10 hours like a home console game but also designed to be played for 10 minutes like a Gameboy or DS title.
The bite size challenges of Mario’s moons and Links Shrines is a testament to this.
@SwankyKong64 I can and do play Forza Horizon 4 and PSO portably on my phone and they work really well I the format but they weren’t designed that way from the ground up. That’s the difference.
@RadioHedgeFund most switch games weren’t designed like that either but here we are. Splatoon 2 maybe?
Ok I'm going to say this right now bc I don't think anyone heard me, I said that the 3rd one was very unlikely, as in, its not going to happen but its something nintendo would do.
@RadioHedgeFund What about the fact that Dark Souls auto saves every 7 seconds? Or that you can quick save at any time in Skyrim? I get the convenience you are taking about, but those types of things weren’t suddenly invented by the great Nintendo wizards. Those types of conveniences have been around for decades. Even the original Doom could be quick saved at any time.
@WhiteUmbrella I'd say it depends.
A core flaw of the WiiU wasn't that it depended on just it's core fanbase.
If anything, it's biggest failure at launch is that it failed to cater to it at all during the crucial launch year.
Recall, the WiiU didn't even launch with a Mario or Zelda games. At all.
It took literal years before we got.... Mario 3D World which was nice but not the kind of 3D exploration platformers fans had grown to enjoy.
And the only Zelda games we got ended up ports of Gamecube era games and again, only after years.
That's the thing.
If anything, the only things it had at release was third party games... but they weren't what the fans wanted and ultimately a lot of them proved to be throwaway effort from the third parties themselves.
So if anything the WiiU's flaw was to trust third-parties to pick up the slack of a lack of first party releases too much. But the fans of third parties had already their Xbox and Playstation lines so it left it to fans of first party to create and initial momentum for the console.... and they had nothing.
Contrast to the Switch's first year where it's ultimately been BOTW and Mario Odyssey both launching during that crucial launch year period that ultimately created all that momentum that forced third party to give the Switch any look at all if they wanted a piece of that rising pie(especially since it was starting to drag in both traditional and new fans just like the Wii before it, but this time through people actually enjoying traditional games and buying more stuff than just WiiSport).
@BloodNinja if those games were built that way out of convenience not to be played on the bus. Nintendo don’t have some sort of exclusivity on great portable games (Locoroco says hi!) but going back to the original argument: part of the reason the PSP didn’t do so well was because developers were building PS2 games for the format whereas Nintendo had over 15 years experience with the Gameboy line by the time the DS came along and then the iPhone launched the App Store in 2008 which necessitates short bursts of gameplay.
There’s just something about titles built for dedicated portable hardware that home titles just don’t have in their DNA. I could play Starcraft on the Gabe Boy but Advance Wars will always be a better option.
@Spiders It's just an extra cost a consumer generally won't be aware of. A USB-C to HDMI is not a cheap cable if you want a premium cable... which I assume you would if you are paying $400+ USD on it (it is also a cable most people even tach savvy ones generally just don't have at home already). That and SD cards are also not cheap for anything of worth to purchase so let's say if you cheap out on all of those it is still an extra $60-80USD on top of the device you already purchased. Not including controllers you may or may not have to lying around the house. Also, what controllers will be compatible with the machine itself? Will it require a micro-USB or USB Type C to connect to the device or will Bluetooth pairing be easy? That and a dock generally has all your USB hubs and cable requirements in an easy and aesthetically pleasing form factor which the Steam Deck lacks as a baseunit. So if you want a dock that will be $80USD. See what I mean as hidden costs that will add up? The Switch out of the box has everything you need to play some Zelda BotW on the TV and on the go. That and the setup is a pain on PC sometimes which is not good for consoles.
Also some of the games you listed are played best with a mouse and keyboard. Civ6 and DOTA2 all rely majorly on mouse and keyboard so they are poor games for portable play (for the PC versions as I know console versions are optimized) so you will need to rebind the keys through the Controller Config to get to a comfy if sacrificed optimization. That and those games are not majorly demanding games so odds are your laptop you purchased for work already plays them and is better than Steam Deck at playing those games at high settings. See what I mean is that to the average consumer this is not very appealing. To a convert of PC gaming, it is a nifty niche device.
@RadioHedgeFund Ok. Not sure what you’re arguing though. When a feature is no longer exclusive to one platform, what’s the point in noticing, other than being a developer or something?
@BloodNinja I think his argument is that Nintendo has been making handheld games for decades and have an inside track of how to apply those systems and gameplay ideas to home console titles better than a lot of 3rd parties. Games designed for the Switch have those principles built into them which makes portable play more optimized. Games like Doom (2016) yes are great for portable play due to their pickup and play nature, but large open-world games like Skyrim and Witcher 3 are less so due to their long quests and how they prioritize immersion. Games like Dark Souls really don't lend themselves well to this style of play as because they lack fast travel and punishing difficulty they require your full attention. This is not great when you are let's say at the dentist waiting for your appointment or are travelling on a bus and need to look out your window every few minutes to see how far you are from your stop.
That's not to say Steam does not have those games as they share a lot of 3rd party titles with the Switch like indie games in the simulation or platformer genre and AAA JRPG games have always been staples of portable systems. Even games from the PS2 generation like Final Fantasy X are great at portable play, but that is as I said because JRPGs have always lent well to portable play it is just serendipitous that they do. But, generally, Nintendo has always been great at delivering that experience. That and games that are close to that quality tend to be ones that are exclusive to Switch like Octopath Traveler or Bravely Default 2.
@Wexter So you think that BOTW is not suitable for handheld play then,?
It is as much a long winded RPG as Witcher 3 or Skyrim. I love the idea of playing all 3 in handheld.
BOTW sold many Switch consoles.
@hammers1man Not what I was saying at all as I was just elaborating on another poster. Please re-read before replying. Also, BotW is great for portable play as Shrines take maybe 5-10 minutes to finish and are easy to put down and there are lots of smaller objectives to complete like climbing a tower to get a new fast travel point or grind components. Compare that to Skyrim which can see even shorter quests take upwards of 30 minutes and it's easy to lose track of what you are doing when distracted. It was just designed differently from BotW. Some people can play Skyrim on the go, but it was not designed to be played that way as its optimal experience.
JRPGs have always dominated portable play because they are slow-paced, you can do short bursts of play easily like level grinding and dungeons have natural stop and rest points every 5-10 minutes to open a chest or use a tent.
I'm generalizing, but as someone who has finished Witcher 3 multiple times and played more Skyrim than I'd like to admit they are neat on the go, but not my go-to for when I'm out of the house.
@Wexter I do see your point, my problem with BOTW is that I can't stop playing it if I start.
I think Outer Wilds is a game really suitable for portable play. Tbh there are literally hundreds of Steam games that would be really suitable for a small portable screen that are not available on Switch before we go into emulation. Retro Arch is free on the Steam store which is fantastic for emulation.
@Wexter I get all that, I’m just wondering why it’s even useful to point it out.
@BloodNinja No idea. But, I do think games on Switch generally are picked for their ability to be played portable and at home. I think the Steam Deck will be fine for that as Steam has a lot of those games too. But, I'm not sure if I think it is as much of a Switch killer as people think for the reasons I outlined from a consumer perspective. From a gamer perspective where let's say money is not an issue, I'd want one. But, as a guy who needs to keep the wife happy and justify my purchases... this is low on the list of stuff I will be buying... same with the OLED Switch
@hammers1man Outer Wilds would be good for portable play. I've said this before and I will again Steam does not lack games or interesting games. Just a lot of those games people have already played and won't buy a console for. Steam Deck needs a killer app to justify its existence as exclusives tend to push adoption just look at how the Switch and PS4/5 have creamed the Xbone and X-Series in sales over the last few years. I'm not sure Steam Deck has mainstream appeal as a lot of people I have talked to about it who already own a Switch go... "so I can play Steam games on the go? I already have a laptop." The Steam Deck for all intense and purposes is a console with the baggage of a PC in the eyes of general consumers.
@Wexter That all makes a lot of sense, I getchu
I wonder how well text size in games translates to the portable Deck as it won't have been designed around maybe?
@BloodNinja My point was the reasons people are jumping on the Gabe Boy are the same reasons people jumped on the PSP and they might get burned the same way. And the PSP is still my favourite console of all time.
@Wexter But you also have to see the other side of this, a lot of Switch games are ports of old games that it generally can't play very well. The Deck is market for people who buy the Doom's Skyrim, The Outer Worlds, Borderland,Witcher 3 on their Switch or a lot of indie games. Because let's face it the Switch can't play certain games very well. The port of Trine games are ugly and downgraded. There is a big market of Switch players that buy those type of game to play portably. A lot of people will have a Switch for Nintendo exclusive and buy this a a beefy handheld to play these type of games.
I don't actually care for a Switch Pro as Nintendo games look good for what they are in 1080/720p. But everyone want a beefier Switch. This is a much more capable handheld that can play games well that the Switch just can't handle.
I am more than happy with both. I have a very good OLED screen on my phone, it doesn't look vastly superior for gaming than the Switch screen. A small OLED screen is just not in the same league as an OLED TV.
I still think the biggest selling point of Steam Deck is the games are so much cheaper on PC, you just can't look past that.
@RadioHedgeFund Was anyone burned by the PSP? That was an excellent system. I thought the Vita was the one that got abandoned? The Deck looks awesome, I doubt people will get burned unless there is a severe hardware issue like Joy Con drift. Oh wait...
@BloodNinja I see a lot of the Vita in the Steam Deck... I hope for those interested it is not the same results as wasting $300 on a Vita was my worst gaming mistake... till I hacked it and turned it into a glorified PSONE, SNES and GBA
Compared to what Valve packed in that device its amazing!
4gb ram (switch) vs a 16gb ram steamdeck etc etc etc everying is tripled.
And the amount of games in steam (also retro and indie games) is massive.
Ao day one buy from me.
They already won me over.
@hammers1man Yes as my point has been it is an enthusiast machine. This is for those who want nice-looking games on the go, but since the Gameboy that is not something that translates to portable gaming. Gameboy smocked the Gamegear and Lynx, the Gameboy Color was the Pokemon machine that torched the remnants of the Neo Geo Pocket. The GBA soared over the competition, the DS outlasted the PSP, the 3DS overcame the Vita by so much it was not even a competition. This is a similar situation as the Switch is not in the same market as the PS4/5 and the Xbone/XSX. Expensive portables tend to crash and burn even though they offer a more "premium experience." I have a ton of doubts about this thing as anything more than a niche product for those with money to burn.
If you can play EVERY Steam game on this device, then it actually could be serious competition for the Switch ( and even the Xbox!).
However, I wonder how many older games actually work with this controller? I don't think that games designed for mouse-keyboard controls will work well with this.
@Wexter The Vita looks so good for emulation, I’m very tempted!
@chipia I’m wondering the same thing, but when I think about it I realize that so many games only use a few buttons at a time, unless you are full on typing something like in a chat window in an MMO
@BloodNinja It is nice!!! But honestly, it is still not very worth it as you still need that stupid Sony proprietary memory sticks to get a nice collection of PSOne games on it.
buttons and sticks seem way too small and uncomfortable
also, the swapped a and b buttons are bad I prefer the correct and right layout by Nintendo
@Wexter I could swear there is a work around for that, I would link it but it’s probably against the rules. I did recall just seeing a YouTube video about a workaround where you can use any memory card, which made me very tempted to get one and mod it. Might be worth checking!
@Wexter Again, you make great points, but I feel like these are the same kind of arguments about only one side of the trade-offs that were made when Switch was announced. Nobody was sure who it was for, and then 80 million people showed up to the party.
I can forsee a big lawsuit. Easy to imagine Nintendo laywering up the second Youtube tutorials on emulation get released
@BloodNinja You said Valve is doing what Nintendo should be doing but you failed to mention the one that did do it a.k.a. Atari. Everyone kept their attention at Nintendo and wants Nintendo to do what a PC does but when there's another company like Atari that does exactly what everyone want Nintendo to do, everyone turns head. Why should Nintendo take everyone seriously when they didn't take Atari seriously? Sure the Atari VCS is not as powerful as the Steam Deck but it is still a mighty fine machine for open source OS like Steam, Linux, Android, and various other PC games and emulation.
For anyone who worries about fps games on this tackpad. I owned 2 Steam controllers. I found them superior to the mouse; especially if you're left-handed. Think Splatoon gyro, but far more customizable and activated on demand. With that being said, my track pads or charging ports went bad. As long as those things and the battery holds up, the Steam Deck could be revolutionary. Especially since Windows isn't necessary.
@Ghost_of_Hasashi I mean, just get a Dell Optiplex 350 if you want a good open source machine for emulation. The Atari might be good for some folks, but it won't be playing Dark Souls 3 and the POSSIBLE Bloodborne PC port, so Steam Deck it is, for me. Hopefully that Bloodborne PC leak is true.
@Jasspur Thanks for that feedback. Been wanting to try a Steam controller for things like Diablo II for ages, but never really bothered. How do they work on games outside of Steam?
People buy Nintendo machines to play Nintendo games, as long as Nintendo make games for kids, every gamer will have some attachment to Nintendo Franchises, now for the Gabe Gear (steam deck) only problem I see it's cuz most pc games relay on online play Wich this thing being portable don't have (as far as I know)
I cannot wait to play some ARPGs that won't ever make it to Switch. Like some have said, I would definitely reevaluate last gen ports to Switch from now on. That whole Switch tax is a kick to the nuts every time an old game gets re-released. I don't have the latest greatest desktop or laptop, so not sure yet how this will work and if it's in my best interest to consider any games out of what my PCs can run.
I'm also curious as to how Epic's launcher will run. Would be enticing to play some mobile GTA V.
@EriXz Most PC games you don't have to be online, exactly like Switch. I can play 99% of my Steam library offline. And the Deck does have online play, maybe just read up a bit about it.
@thegametb The Deck isn't going to run Cyberpunk well at all just like PS4 never will. But believe me it will run GTA V very well.
As a dad with kids and a wife, I’m extremely excited for the Steam Deck. I don’t have the time to go to my computer and boot up games like I used to. I will be able to finally play PC games in bed or on the couch with ease and finally tackle my huge Steam backlog.
@hammers1man is that so?
Guess I missed that part, so aside from wifi how does the deck connects to the internet while for example, on a train or a bus while commuting from home to work or the other way around?
@cookeecut The ergonomics actually make sense if you look at it.
Just look at your tumbs if you hold your Switch console. In most ergo friendly position, your tumbs hover on the top sides of your Switch console, so here with the Steam Deck, the buttons are on the most ergo friendly position really.
@Wexter The fake is of far greater value. In its deliberate attempt to be real, it's more real than the real thing.
@Palaws Buntebdo never did that for the Series X. Legally they cannot do a thing lmao
@EriXz is that so?
Guess I missed that part, so aside from wifi how does the deck connects to the internet while for example, on a train or a bus while commuting from home to work or the other way around?
You could tether your 5G/4G connection from your phone. I have done it with my Switch in a hotel with bad wi-fi as PGA Tour 2K21 on Switch needs to be online even for the single player career mode.
Makes sense. Microsoft and Sony take losses on their hardware. Valve is probably doing the same here
@Wexter
Sorry for late reply.
Switch is also an all digital device like Steam Deck. That problem is solved with support for unlimited amount of SD Cards.
As for the big PC games. Valve plans to get developers make "Optimized for Steam Deck" version so they use way less space in a similar way as they do on Switch already. Doom Eternal etc. is smaller on Switch.
.
Steam Deck is not bad at all. In fact i wanted a proper PC handheld for years, and will play many of the great smaller games on it.
Steam Deck won't win any design price as it's designed for functionality instead.
The problem with previous PC handhelds is that none of them had much marketing and money power behind it.
Valve is printing money with Steam, and is why they were able to sell a powerful handheld for only 399$. Small companies would need to sell same handheld at a much higher price like Aya Neo. Automatically makes it a failure.
Switch have proven that people are willing to pay 400$ for a handheld.
Steam users often have 1000's of games already. I have around 3600 games there myself. Some people own 10.000 games on Steam too. This is why this handheld is interresting to people like me. I already have the games. I just don't have the PC handheld. Sure i have a RTX 3070 gaming PC, but still nice to play PC games portable other places.
Steam have more PC exclusives than all consoles ever combined. Exclusivity is not a probblem.
Also remember this handheld plays Control, Hitman 3, Cyberpunk 2077, Far Cry 5, Assassins Creed Odyssey, Valhalla, Watch Dogs Legion, Battlefield 5, Cyberpunk 2077 etc. and even Switch games in a emulator at full speed.
Most AAA games on Switch is ports 5-15 year old games, and people pay 400$ for that.
I own VITA, and i know many reasons why it failed hard.
Overpriced small custom flash cards is the main reason why it failed. Third parties gave up VITA already in 2012.
Sony gave up VITA in 2013. Killzone Mercenary from 2013 were among Sony's last major game on it.
Great hardware, but screen and buttons were too small on VITA. Also lacking 2 shoulder buttons + R1+R2 were a big mistake. Rear touch were suppose to replace buttons, but it never worked practically and is why only like 3 games supports Rear Touch.
Rear Touch is what made Little Big Planet unplayable on it too as you couldn't disable it.
Steam Deck is a niche console mainly for people with huge library of Steam games already.
Average John Doe haven't even heard about Steam as the mainstreamers only knows about consoles.
As you say, lots of people are sitting with outdated gaming PC's with less power than Steam Deck. Could be a cheap way for them to "upgrade" as you say.
It's well known already that it won't be a Switch competitor.
You can't buy retail games for Steam Deck in a local store. It's 100% download only. It will only sell as much as Wii U and VITA at best. Even 10 millions would be great sales for it.
A little example of jumping into PC gaming.Pevious free games on the Epic Store
Watchdogs 1 and 2
Star Wars Battlefront 2
Metro Redux and Last Light Redux
Control ( this is £50 just to play streamed on Switch)
Sonic Mania
Celeste
Metro Redux and Last Light Redux
The Batman Arkham trilogy
Borderlands 2 collection and Pre Sequal
GTA V
Darksiders Warmaster Edition
Darksiders 2
Blair Witch
City Skylines
Frost Punk
Jurrasic World Evolution
Kingdom Come Deliverance
Rage 2
Subnautica
Football Manager 202O
The Witness
Talos Principal
World War Z
Just Cause 4
Fez
Inside
I actually have 130 free Epic Store games in my Library including some cracking indie games available on Switch that are now portable games for me on the Steam Deck.
I know alot of people haven't picked up these games but Epic still give games away every week and you don't need a PC to snatch them up, free this week Obduction and Offworld Trading company.
In perspective the price of the Steam Deck is amazing value (only 50 dollars more than a Switch OLED that most of us Switch gamers don't even need) because for such little money you can build up a huge handheld gaming device library for next to nothing. Even the most expensive Deck is just amazing value for handheld gaming if you just look at the bigger picture of the money you will save on games.
@hammers1man I have everything at Epic too.
Most games drops much quicker in price on PC vs any other system.
UBI Soft season passes never had a good deal on consoles ever.
Official UBI Soft PC store during E3 2021 sold games and season passes up to 90% off with extra discount code for PC only. Consoles never gets deals like this.
gg.deals have price tracking on all PC stores.
Humble Choice monthly always have high value for money.
I paid only 12$ for all these 12 games this month. Even included Dirt 5. Saved me a lot of money.
https://www.humblebundle.com/subscription/home?hmb_source=navbar
And all those great bundles at Fanatical.com which now also includes UBI games, almost sold for nothing.
Just to name a few things.
Steam Deck pays back itself in no time.
@Ventilator It kind on digs at me when people complain that it is a hundred dollars more expensive than Switch or 200 hundred more than the Lite because that is really not looking at the big picture. It might not be right for some people but this is much much cheaper gaming than Switch by an absolute country mile. Why on earth anyone that plays alot of 3rd party games would go for an OLED Switch over this if they have a perfective good Switch already. This opens up so much more gaming affordability. The Switch was actually oldish technology when it was released 4 years ago. I have an original 5 year old Nvidia Shield TV which has the same APU. To actually release an OLED model at such a high price shows a bit of real arrogance from Nintendo. Believe me Nintendo will not be happy about actually having a bit of competition in the handheld and hybrid market. This machine is 2 generations better than the Switch in terms of power.
It might be too big for some in size and battery life will only be 2 hours on the most demanding games . But I am actually getting excited about playing Black Mesa and the Half Life series again portably. Damn you can play Mass Effect 2 on a plane with 4 to 5 hours battery life .
Disco Elysium is one of the best games to come out in the last few years, I can play that on a plane or hotel.Very exciting times for portable gaming. This is big and opens up the closed mindedness of PC gaming being elitest, as you also have a perfectly good PS4 equal powered PC here for 1080p gaming.
@Ventilator I am a Humble Choice subscriber also. Luckily like you I am classic one as I get all 12 games for 12 dollars.
Yakuza 3 is also in the bundle this week👍
@hammers1man People complain about the price of gaming PC's too, but doesn't think about that you earn back the extra money for cheaper games vs console versions.
On top of it, PC can be used for 1 million things a consoles can't do.
People is unable to see the whole picture as you say.
Exactly. Why would people pay 400$ for only a new screen on Switch while games is same old and at the same time says a PC handheld costs too much?
I have seen some say. SD cards will make Steam Deck cost way more than Switch as you need SD cards.
Well. How do you expand storage on Switch? Same SD cards perhaps? Since when were SD cards free on Switch?
What did these people smoke? lol
I bought 2 x NVIDIA Shield TV's at launch in 2015, so i know well how old the Switch GPU is in reality. In reality it's a Tegra from year 2014. I know people were complaining about the price of Shield TV, but even in 2021 it's still perhaps the most powerful media box.
I find it weird that there is no new "tablet" GPU from NVIDIA in 7 years. AMD is powering all these new handheld PC's.
I guess NVIDIA is fine with almost 100 million sold Tegras in Switch, and don't care about PC handhelds.
At least NVIDIA still upgrades Shield TV firmware.
On Steam there is loads of people playing Counter Strike with PC hardware so old you forgot the hardware even existed and should have been on a museum long time ago.
I have seen people on Steam forums with Intel HD GPU that bought games like the old Hitman 1 and don't understand why half of the gfx doesen't show. lol
Steam Deck would be a nice upgraded gaming PC upgrade for these people. Probably comparable to PS4 as you say.
In theory you can run any PC game ever made for decades on Steam Deck.
You have for sure seen comments like this. "But PC have no exclusives?" Well. Most games on Steam have probably never been released on a console. Doesn't that make them PC exclusive?
There is videos on YT on similar handheld on Aya Neo hardware as Steam Deck, emulating Switch at full speed btw.
I get Humble Choice day 1 of release every month. Been good for several months in a row now.
@Ventilator It is funny when people say PC have no exclusives. PC handhelds have absolutely thousands of exclusives for handheld gaming.
Am I the only one that thinks that Nintendo has possibly the worse e store ever. You have to dig around there through hundreds of mobile style games just to find a decent quality game. I feel like I am on the android game store at times. I will buy 1st party Nintendo games I like, but no way would I pay £50 for a Wii game lol
A PC perspective view yes but a great view from PC enthusiasts who have played all the PC handhelds
https://youtu.be/60NGxX7m1Mw
@hammers1man eShop is terrible, because the more you scroll the slower it scrolls. At some point you just have to give up browsing.
Steam is much easier to use, but have a problem that most new games just "dissapears in the Steam ocean" and many games only sells only 10 copies for that reason.
This is why so many Indies jumped onto Nintendo Wii U, because it were much easier to sell there.
I bought Skyward Sword HD on Swich on release because i got it at a decent price with a discount as it's the only Zelda game i didn't own. Using currency converter: 38,66£is what i paid.
Also got 59 Gold coins back from redeeming the flash card.
~38£ then.
I skip games like Mario Golf etc. as they are not worth full price.
On Wii U games were a lot cheaper than on Switch. All the Switch sales made Nintendo greedy.
@hammers1man Nice. Looks like Intel dominates the handheld hardware market so far.
I guess Lenovo, Asus and Razor among others will make a PC handheld too. Since Steam Deck is now not available until 2022, new handheld reveals will probably happen from other companies. I think i need to see in 2022 which handheld to get depending on price too. Not 100% sure it's Steam Deck yet. All handhelds can have Steam installed anyway.
Another little thing and I am no Valve fanboy as I have criticised the company a lot in the past. How efffing often do we in the UK pay so much more for PC hardware. There seems to be a little bit of reward here for having a Steam library, totally sick of paying much more than the US for PC hardware. i am really impressed with the Steam Deck pricing as a UK customer.
@Sev_07 Don’t know why you @ed me but good to know!
@hammers1man Realistically, I see this as a casual gamer thing. Those who play competitively will not be entertained by this. They don't use controllers/gamepads on PC anyhow nor will the sacrifice their precious 4K ultra settings for this. For me, it's perfect I think. I am 100% casual, I play when I can find time between and work and family. I do love a pretty game, but gameplay means more to me than highest settings.
For me, this is to unlock a big catalog of games that won't ever get ported over.. and if they do, I'd save a lot of money by not giving in to "Switch tax" on old ported games.
Even the biggest Nintendo fanboy can't deny this video is funny 😅
https://youtu.be/B5xkRAj-rPg
@hammers1man I don't know if you have Amazon Prime, but Battlefield 1 is "free" there now.
Battlefield V is free there 2nd august.
Consoles never get these deals.
@Ventilator Cheers👍 I do have prime and didn't know about the free games. Just picked up Battlefield 1.
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