In book preservation, processes are established and closely followed. Manuscripts and first editions are kept in carefully managed vault-like facilities, where humidity and access is carefully managed. There are also extensive projects to digitise these materials, creating permanent backups in cloud storage so that those pieces of history will never be lost.
The video game industry is barely half a century old (though you can argue it stretches back around 60-70 years), but is running into serious issues around preservation. Yet when we talk about problems keeping games alive we often refer back to the NES era or earlier, or the dreaded 'disc-rot' of early systems that used that particular technology. It's becoming increasingly apparent that our physical copies of games, which we likely think of as 'permanent' in our own minds, are vulnerable to eventual wear and tear.
In case you missed it, this has come into rather sharp focus with talk online of numerous PAL copies of Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire starting to fail, with some players stating their copies have long since died. It seems early for these games to be failing, and seemingly in reasonable numbers; one possibility is that a specific PAL manufacturing run had either cheap or faulty components in the process, as even the memory associated with DS and 3DS cartridges shouldn't be dying this early.
However, it's important to recognise that cartridges, like their disc-based chums, will encounter reliability issues down the line due to acknowledged lifespan limitations. That's the difference between modern media and our example of books, of course; technology based on memory cards or discs aren't forever, they're mechanical devices that will fail.
It's important to recognise that cartridges, like their disc-based chums, will encounter reliability issues down the line due to acknowledged lifespan limitations.
So what sort of lifespans are we looking at? Well, it depends. There's a tendency, especially in debates between those that prefer digital game purchases to physical copies, for collectors to suggest their copies are 'forever'. In the case of the physical box and cartridge existing, yes, that could be true to a degree, but the functionality of the technology is something else entirely.
With DS and 3DS cartridges, it's worth highlighting that doomsday scenarios of swathes of game copies dying imminently seem very unlikely. However, the perceived make-up of those generations of cartridges seems to vary depending on source, without a great deal of clarity; in any case both generations of the cartridges / memory were supplied by Macronix. It seems that DS cartridges may have a form of masked ROM for media up to a certain size, which is non-writable, with a small amount of flash memory at the very least for save data. In the case of the 3DS it appears to be purely flash memory, albeit with different types handling game and save data, for example.
In terms of flash memory it can be prone to accelerated deterioration or wear, so the aforementioned ORAS issue could be down to a poor batch of memory, and if the component failed it could take the game's functionality with it. This, in reality, should be a rare issue that will nonetheless disappoint anyone affected.
[UPDATE - 6th May: With regards to the ORAS issue, we had a reader reach out to us, @Voultar, who may have identified the cause of the cartridge problem, and it may explain why it has seemingly affected a particular batch in meaningful numbers. It is anecdotal of course, but you can view the video below, in which re-soldering the chip seems to get the game working again. It's an interesting potential fix, even if it's not possible at this point to confirm it as a 100% solution.]
There can be some scary statistics thrown around about memory lifecycles, but the reality is that the range is extremely broad. A lot depends on the quality of materials and manufacturing, and flash memory in particular degrades at varying rates with each read/write; in other words, every time you save and load a DS / 3DS game you take a tiny amount off its life. Major players in the space continue to develop and enhance the number of 'cycles' before their memory degrades, and this includes progress from Macronix. How long, though? Only time will ultimately tell, and guesswork based on cycle-data can give you estimates from 20-50 years, potentially longer. But the key point is that it is a lifecycle; just like retro game media, it'll eventually stop working.
As for the Nintendo Switch cartridges, it's early and difficult to say as, again, they're bespoke cartridges. The memory is provided by Macronix once again, and in the case of Switch rather than store save data on the cartridge itself the games put our saves on the system memory or specified MicroSD. An extra back-up is cloud storage for saves, but of course this is behind the Nintendo Switch Online paywall at present. As for the lifespan of the game cartridges themselves, it's hard to say, though progression in technology and approach will hopefully make them even more reliable than their predecessors.
In summary? Though there'll be outliers and some scary tales, your DS and 3DS games are likely to be fine for the foreseeable future; they may even outlive the actual gaming systems themselves. The worry, of course, is that like all hardware they will eventually degrade and stop working, it's inevitable. It's a challenge for all modern media, arguably, not just games - finding sustainable solutions to secure and store games for future generations should be a priority. Anyway, game preservation is a topic all of its own.
So, don't panic. Don't assume your cartridges will last forever though, they certainly will not.
Comments 187
Nothing lasts forever...
...except an omnibus of Brookside.
[hyperventilating because despite the title, I am once again reminded that nothing is forever everything is fleeting oh god]
I got a backup 3DS loaded with games so no worry for my cartridges if they get faulty
I mean, eventually, the hardware itself will deteriorate too, and replacement parts might not be easy to come by. Better to just accept that it is the way it is and enjoy it for now.
@GrailUK
And the Toyota Hilux.
Clear your backlog. Then there will be no regrets.
And this is why I hacked my 3DS: to have a preservation method for my cartridge and digital games.
The ORAS problem has also been reported with Persona Q, which launched the same month. That seems to confirm that it’s not software specific, and was due to a bad batch of components.
This kind of sucks.... Although, disc-based games will eventually as well. This isn't uncommon. It's kind of crazy that NES cartridges are still being played fine 35+ year later, but DS carts are already failing...
@NicolausCamp True, hardware will likely die before the cartridges. I really should add that point to the conclusion!
I would love for all system manufacturers to follow Microsoft’s approach of backwards comparability.
@Munchlax Yeah, I saw some mention of that when looking into this, so that absolutely seems possible.
This could have easily turned into a Pokemon bank promo. Want to save your shinnies for only 4 dollars a month you can save them in the new Pokemon bank, you can even use them in the latest games.
@GrailUK @theredcomet
And a Nokia 3310
Not really a problem as long as backups exist...the problem is that if Nintendo keeps closing all those roms websites in some decades we could lose already some games...
This can't be true, the anti-digital crowd says so. Physical is forever.
Digital is the way games will be preserved forever. And not at the hands of the companies. As taboo as it is and as much as many people don't like it, the emulation community has done more for game preservation than anything else ever will. And not just released games...we've seen prototypes, alphas, betas, cut content and much more preserved.
@Friendly still a long way to go, even for Microsoft...
The transistors in ROM (Read-Only Memory) cartridges are essentially locked into a single configuration, and as such lose much of their mechanical/electro-chemical functionality when the data is written on the chip. With Flash Memory the transistors are generally not able to be completely locked, and if even one part of the memory is set to be rewritten often, the chemical separation within the transistor eventually becomes non-existent. USB Thumb Drives from the mid 2000's are a great example, I had a high-end one fail after only three years of use, but I used it enough to degrade the flash memory.
Great article and poignant as I have been collecting up 3DS games of late. I think Nintendo software is also a difficult topic for game preservation - the generational innovation with devices mean that with touch, giro, 3d etc, its going to get hard to get these to run as intended on other systems.
@Shadowthrone yep, the best way to preserve anything is to have multiple copies of it and make it available to everyone...
Very interesting. Thanks for the article.
This is why emulation is important.
@thomasbw84 thank you for this article, Thomas! i have to say I was a bit anxious when I read the article about Pokemon AR and OS earlier this week.
@Rudy_Manchego Actually, preservation of Nintendo stuff is really easy, because the games are easy to dump and easy to install on hacked systems. Unlike PS3 or PS4.
The hardware of some systems seems to be unique, but if there is an interest, some company will release clone hardware, as Analogue currently does for the GBA or SNES.
I plan on putting all my games in a cryostasis tube, along with my preserved head.
Uh, anyone have a cryostasis tube I can borrow? Thx.
But yeah, games preservation has been on my mind, so anything that I would feel bad about losing, I emulate on PC. Other than that, not sure what other options we have for older, legacy systems!
NINJA APPROVED
@Whitestrider When the alternative is games disappearing forever, then yes.
Is it the best way? No, but no legitimate company is stepping up to preserve this software. It could be done legitimately as well and set up in a multitude of ways. But until someone does this, shady emulation is the only way many games will ever be preserved.
@Piyo [laughs in RPCS3]
And this is why I own a Wii U. If only Pokémon put their main series games on there...
They don't need to last forever, just until I kick the bucket. I won't bother including my backlog in my will.
Who wants to live forever?
Well I have some 30 year old NES cartridges that are in perfect condition and play well.
I bet that those will outlive some people
This is the main thing I don't get about the digital vs. physical debate. It's really anyone's guess whether the physical copies will start to fail first, or if the digital store the games are being sold on will go down first. Either way, the odds are quite good that your game collection won't last for decades, so why do some get so up in arms about being purists for physical media?
I wouldn't worry yet, my NES games need to be cleaned every time before they are put in to work, but the important part is they work!
@BloodNinja Software emulation has nothing to do with preservation. Yes, games run and it's great if you just want to play old games, but they do neither look nor feel like the originals.
Also, why should I want to play PS3 games emulated on a PC? Most games of that generation were just stripped down versions of PC games. I could play the originals. But there is a reason why I prefer consoles over PC (besides the crappy GPU in my Apple computer)
Can we complain of these games diying? I was never told on the store seller and on the cards there is no notice about the games having a limited ammount of usage.
I think this is something that can be sued in favor of the legality of old roms.
@PBandSmelly I would worry. Capacitors on original NES hardware and games constantly fail nowadays.
But, but, physical is forEVER!
@Piyo Ehhh, I switched from Mac to PC for a beefy VR ready gaming computer that I barely touch after 2 years in comparison to my Switch and I’m planning on switching back to the new purple iMac this year. I like the idea of retro handhelds for emulation and rarely use my PC for it anyways.(minus my yearly paper Mario playthrough haha)
@Piyo
I had my console fail 3 times and had to fix it 3 times by now. I'm aware, but they can be restored...for now
Oh no! Not even the sun lasts forever!
@neufel Come for the Nintendo news, flee from the existential dread.
haha, why would I be panicking at this reminder that everything is ephemeral and we are all mortals hurtling toward the grave and also one day I won't be able to replay Ace Attorney because it has crumbled into dust as we all shall
haha
And people keep telling me that I am a fool to trust cloud gaming.
Well, yes the services I use like Stadia or GFN can be shut down.
But my physical game collection will also not last forever. And with digital games, you are only buying a license for the game, that can be altered or be withdrawn afterwards. So what is really the difference here?
Game ownership is a illusion!
My SMS Card games and Turbo Grafx-16 HuCard games still works, I assure those DS and 3DS card games will still work just fine 30 years from now too. In comparison some of my PS1 and PS2 disc had loading issues or disc read errors now, even if I try to buff them the errors are still there.
This is a flaw that many people don't make note of when they say "I buy physical so I can keep it forever." Fat lot of good that game will do once it eventually dies. Ah but you might be able to keep it working...if you don't use it. Defeats the point though, huh? Let's see where things stand in another 10 or 20 years.
Which is why emulation is so important. Eventually our games and especially our hardware will fail. Emulation allows us to play these games when the inevitable happens.
I actually genuinely had no idea memory was finite and will eventually fail! So here’s a question? What about modern emulated games with save states, where you often go a little in the stage, die and reload to try again? You’re saving / loading much quicker and much more often. Does that mean the memory here will last even less time?
@Piyo I play my PS3 games on my PC for the day that my CMOS battery dies in the PS3. When that occurs, I won’t be able to ping Sony’s server and activate my digital purchases. As of right now, there’s no other way but software emulation, and I’m totally fine with that!
Pro-tip: emulation also allows users to run patches, so I can play Demon’s Souls in beautiful 60 FPS, and also skip the extremely long intro menus, so it’s an arguably better experience playing it on PC than on my actual PS3.
@SwitchVogel Yeah, and as long as you still have a game downloaded on your system, the only way you'd lose access to it is if you lose or break the console after the eShop (or equivalent) is shut down. So, given that cartridges/discs can easily be lost or broken as well, the argument that physical media lasts longer doesn't really hold any water.
What did we learn today guys? Nothing last forever!
I could have done with some actual science in this
@BloodNinja I never found an explaination what happens if the CMOS dies, except "PS3 magically connects to PSN". However, I guess that sony uses some very common or easily hackable protocol here to sync time. It's not a security feature, just a dumb design error.
I guess there will be a dongle some day, which you plug into your ethernet port, and the CMOS will be happy again.
Regarding patching: I could already patch my Wii games on the Wii, before the Wii U was anounced. I can play translated SNES games on my SNES, and Mario 64 in 16:9 on my Switch. Why should I need emulation for that?
20-50 years for DS and 3DS games? Is that since launch, or starting now? Because if that's since launch... the DS came out in 2004. That means games could start dying in like 3 years
@norwichred So, to answer your question, you would have to know what the lifespan of your hard drive is in your PC. Depending on what you have, you could see that lasting another 10-20 years. As long as you keep 10-20% of your disc drive free, you will get a long lifespan out of your hard drive. If the drive is filled to near capacity it drastically increases the wear on it, so you will only get 4-5 years before the drive naturally fails. Hope that helps!
@ALinkttPresent Remember: CDs were ment to last 100 years or longer, when they were announced in the 80s. Now, Mega CD games are rotten.
The hardware can last 50 years. Unless Nintendos reduces production quality to save some money. And Nintendo loves money, which makes this very likely.
I have one cart that doesn't work anymore and one that barely works. So the problem may be real
@Piyo Hey, if that’s the case I’ll be happy. Right now all I know is that when you install a fresh CMOS (which requires complete disassembly and re-application of thermal paste to the CPU) it forces the PS3 to set the time again. After it does this, it has to verify the console again on Sony’s servers. It will run discs, but without that server ping you won’t be able to authenticate any digital purchases. The problem is worse on the PS4, which requires BOTH disc and digital games to authenticate. So if your CMOS dies and Sony happens to shut down servers, the PS4 will be a lovely brick.
I’m not sure if the Switch will have this issue. I don’t believe it has a CMOS battery. I think it uses flash storage of some kind so those consoles should be fine, unless Nintendo made some oversight we are unaware of.
I came to terms with this some time ago. Nothing lasts forever, not even the best/coolest software components and machines.
It seems like the old fashioned cartridges like the NES, SNES, N64, Game Boy, Genesis, and so on are by far the most reliable. As a collector I have long known how disc drives are typically the achilles heel of most game consoles, it's always been by far the least reliable component that is the most prone to going wrong. Discs have also always been notoriously delicate, and classic disc drive consoles are always at risk of developing issues.
It seems like for some reason 3DS cartridges are by far the least reliable as far as cartridges go. I'll put it this way, I have a 3DS game with a dead cartridge and by all appearances it's in flawless condition, when I had N64 games stop working it always seemed to come down to dirty contacts and with a bit of cleaning I could get them working again. With the failed 3DS cartridge however, the contacts look perfect so it's something else that is making it not work. Despite collecting cartridges for pretty much every platform on earth, the 3DS is the only platform where I have had them fail and I could never get them to work again.
@KateGray
Chin up, Kate. As we are followers of Nintendo, there is a beautiful Zelda and Mario themed afterlife awaiting us! Unlike those Sony plebs 😌
@Piyo I’m not saying you need it. Just stating that it’s a feature that will accomplish the goal of preservation, patches, etc. I’m only aware of Retron consoles being able to apply patches to old games, but that console uses software emulation to run the cartridge, too. I’m also aware of services that custom build carts with patches installed. Just stating what I know, nothing more.
I mean, at least 3DS hacking is well and truly established. But as someone who still does value having a physcial copy of some games, that is indeed a very bad look for Nintendo, especially considering their more recent escapades into 3DS piracy control...you know, after the console was discontinued, because of course that's how Nintendo operates.
I still hear the word "preservation" in the context of video games as "excuse for piracy".
Nothing lasts forever. My 1997 Ford Taurus started falling apart after 15 years of regular use. Am I entitled to a new car free of charge because I bought one in the past?
When I hear and read about video game preservation I always see it in the context of people's personal collections. No one is safely "preserving" games for historical purposes in a museum or library type of setting. They are uploading and downloading entire libraries of games online to load into Chinese made emulation boxes.
And I am not sorry for calling that out.
If you are one of the people who is truly only concerned with keeping your own games safely accessible and playable, then I can sympathize and understand.
But there are people out there seriously arguing that games should be made public domain after only 10-15 years. Some people say it should be sooner. And I have even seen people suggesting games should be made free after only a few years on the market. It's all absurd and insulting to the talented people who worked so hard to produce these games.
@JayJ Yep, I stopped collecting discs due to them being unreliable. I’ve owned games since my launch PS1, and no disc rot ever occurred but the disc drive on the PS1 started to falter so I lost interest in collecting discs.
In the electronics industry there is what we call "accelerated aging stress tests". Basically you get a sample of your product, but it in an environment with high temperature and humidity, to simulate in days the degradation of years. After that, you perform an enormous amount of write-read cycles and speed tests. JEDEC standards are used to regulate tests and results. If your client accepts the specifications of your product, well you sell it! If this problem is recurring in Nintendo cartridges, they might have to take a better look into their supplier.
The whole Physics of semiconductors is quite new compared to previous technologies, so indeed there is much advance to be done.
My copy of Sonic 2 on the Mega Drive is still alive and kicking after 28 years. One clean in all that time (and that was just boredom in lockdown). Just saying. Don’t panic!
@Heavyarms55 That’s a tricky subject, I think the laws that consider a piece of software “abandon ware” differ from region to region. If it’s abandoned, that’s one thing. If you bought a physical copy and made a backup, that’s another thing, too! I can think of numerous arcade machines that are unplayable without emulation due to not being available. I agree with you about outright piracy of existing software, but I also know that some things just aren’t available in certain regions, or at all, anymore, without emulation.
Again, I’m not saying you are wrong, you are actually right on the money. I just also know that different regions have different laws, and in most places it is the law that determines ethics. I’m speaking generally, of course.
@AndyC_MK not what I was talking about.
I'm a bit fearful of the resale of these cards and sellers asking $100 or more for cartridges that do not work
My original copy of Persona Q stopped working last year. After contacting Atlus about it, they said it was a known issue with that batch of games. But since I’ve had a habit of buying both physical and digital version of certain franchises, I wasn’t in any trouble. Also, backups are fairly easy to make or find as long as you’ve chosen to break a warranty that’s far expired.
@BloodNinja I am not concerned so much with legality. I decide for myself what I consider right and wrong based on the information available.
Sure something might not be available, and that's too bad, because we are not entitled to someone else's work. Something being not for sale or even just stuck in licensing hell doesn't justify pirates dumping the files online in a free for all.
For people who want to talk about preservation, I would like to see a more serious stance on it. Perhaps creating some sort of non profit foundation with the purpose of preservation of legacy content that could have limited public access. Like a digital video game museum. Perhaps it could then incorporate ways for people to play these games on a subscription, with the proceeds going towards maintenance and improvement of the system. If there is an excess of money then it could go to charity or something like that.
The rule could be that any title over 20 years old not re-released on a modern platform for at least 5 years is then added to the collection for preservation purposes. This would encourage companies to choose either to keep titles available for sale or to decide to let them go. Instead of them being left in limbo.
I think it would be very important that the foundation or whatever it ended up called would be non-profit to keep it honest. Perhaps it could be run by a team of representatives from the top 15 game companies with decisions made in a democratic fashion. Said representatives would be rotated every so many years.
Live for the moment. Look to the future. Preservation of the past is best left there.
Of course nothing lasts forever. I like to buy physical games because they're cool. Also, because with I can play many of them and then often get the money back or make a profit if I want to.
or lend them to a friend. Or shine them, stick them back on my shelf, and think how great they are. And give them to my nephew, who loves physical video games, when I run out of extra lives.
And I like digital too. It's nice to have options. Where's the problem?
Reasons like this are why I’ll hack consoles if possible. I can dump my games to disk storage so if the originals stop working it’s a non-issue. I still collect physical games but now they’re essentially like “trading cards”, they either stop working like this or they require multiple patches over time that render the included code obsolete.
There is a difference between a cartridge death because of corrosion (bad handling) and a cart stop working because of a glitch like my Pokemon Alpha Sapphire thinking it is in a console from another region.
I can see some cartridges live longer than 50 years.
My original Nes Zelda cart still works and has the save file on it from my first playthrough. Now what's this about my carts going bad? Yeah I think I'm good.
All the more reason why a certain... extra legal method of digital preservation is so important!
I only hope videogames expand as a cultural artifact where companies are forced to acknowledge this fact. We would all benefit from preserving games and making the classics more publicly available.
@Heavyarms55 Sounds like you have a good idea, but how would it be different if a so called museum got paid to preserve games vs someone dumping the collection online? Especially in the case of older titles, how do the older devs get contacted to get their royalties that the museum should pay them?
Thank goodness for emulation. There’s an old arcade game called Cybattler that, until now, was only available for several thousand dollars on an arcade PCB on eBay. Had I not downloaded and played it, I wouldn’t have been introduced to it and therefor would not have known it was so good when it recently got released on Arcade Archives. So having that old thing as a ROM led me to buy it when it came out on Switch.
Just trying to show you an example of how piracy made a legitimate sale of a game. I understand your extra-strict stance on the matter, I just don’t follow it!
I've always wondered how long old cartridges and the systems that use them will last. I still play my Atari 7800 occasionally. I've had to replace the console once, and one cartridge stopped working. So for a 30+ year old console, not bad. But I also have a bunch of 2600/VCS cartridges (about 40 years old), and several of them no longer work properly. It will be a sad day when it becomes impossible (on a reasonable budget) to play the games I grew up with. Of course that assumes those old consoles die before I do.
I love old games, especially the Intellivision, NES, and SNES ones I grew up with, but it's exhausting (and expensive) trying to chase every game down. A lot of times, I find that my expectations of what is enjoyable has changed too. There are a handful of each generation of games that I still find playable, and most of those have persisted unless Copyright/Licensing issues came into play. Even something like AD&D: Treasure of Tarmin lived on as Minotaur in Intellivision collections.
There is a deep philosophical debate buried in this article on the ability to satisfy an appetite (such as the need to collect stuff), the paradox of too many choices, and/or consumerism. If anything, it's given me something to think about.
The difference between this and digital, of course, being that one is nature taking it's course which you can simply take care of in most cases so it lasts longer than you're alive, and the other is at the whim of some garbage company who can decide at any time that they aren't making enough money off of it anymore so you're not allowed to have it despite having paid for it.
I prefer physical because that physical copy doesn't take up memory and you can sell and see some return if you don't like the game. You can also use it on a new repacement console or second console hassle or internet connection free.
The less cards in the greedy company's hand the better. However im more conscious of the environment now. Im okay with future digital game consoles (non streaming) if game conpanies finally make decisions to save the game industry instead of killing it by showing their loyal customers the same loyalty given to them.
did some digging: since the 3ds carts use all flash memory, thats the problem. Eventually if flash isn't written to, it degrades. That mostly 10 years for things like memory cards and USB sticks. Since 3ds carts aren't writable, they will all die.
@neufel Your avatar goes so well with your reply 😀
@Zeldafan79 You’re playing with fire with that one. That game uses a small battery to save data. It’s going fail sooner than later.
As much as we all want are stuff to last forever we have to accept it won't.
@Antraxx777 Yes but then you change the battery and the cartridge is fully functional again. True you lose the save data but still you can start over instead of throwing it in the garbage because it is faulty.
That is the advantage of the battery reliant cartridges. You change them once every 10 years and they still work.
Already did that to all my GB Pokemon games.
Couple of GBA games have batteries as well. It is extremely easy to change them.
@GTHOLLAND Tell that to future generations who want the authentic experience we had. My nephews still try to collect retro games.
With that attitude we would have lost access to thousands of classic movies and songs had no one tried to preserve them. In fact we did lose tons of material (masters) from an awful 2008 Universal Music archives fire, that we’ll never get back. And let’s not get into all the knowledge we lost in the Alexandria Library fire. That’s why multiple sources of preservation is very important.
Of course we have digital now though, so there is that so long as companies think they can still profit off of their old works. But just like you can’t say reading digitally is the same as actually holding the book, people are always going to be curious about how past generations lived.
@Zuljaras Yes, much easier to fix than dead flash memory.
@AndyC_MK Ok. Still not what was talking about.
@Antraxx777 The dead flash memory that is thrown around is something I have yet to experience or hear someone else experience it.
Most of cartridge failures that I hear about are from people pulling them out of soda drinks ...
Is there even one documented game cartridge memory fail because of too many save cycles done?
@Antraxx777
Future generations are not gonna care about old games. Teenagers are not eager to play Megaman or frogger and that resonates down the years. They look at these games and turn their noses up. It's only the geeks and nerds that think anyone cares about game preservation.
@GrailUK Jimmy Corkhill, Ron Dixon and Sinbad beg to differ!
@HawkeyeWii I sometimes wonder how much time we have left on our old NES carts. Two of my NES games - Maniac Mansion and Bucky O'Hare - no longer work, sadly.
@AndyC_MK you are the one attacking me, but ok.
Ignore list you go.
This article seems pretty sugar coaty about this.
My DS cartridges are all fine, perfect even.
My Alpha Sapphire, both my Pkmn X copies, Smash 4, and Sun are all dying struggling to read at all in both of my 3ds'. My ultra moon last i tried it has been coinflippy too, sometimes it reads immidiately, sometimes it reads on the 5th try. I thought maybe the oil from my hands could've rubbed on them and made them harder to read over time, but hearing other people report this stuff definitely feels less like a me issue.
I just can't see how these cartridges deteriorating could be expected when vinyl records from the 70s are still usable, or the DS titles seem to be doing fine. There are some one-offs, like the original Ruby and Sapphire with the game clock for night/day and berry trees, mainly due to the cartridge itself keeping track of that stuff (even has a little battery in it like a watch), and batteries run out of fuel eventually. 3ds titles though.. something seems off, they must've made them way cheaper than the DS ones.
@tanasten It would have to be a substantial fail rate to force a class action case
@BloodNinja Yeah the actual discs themselves seem to hold up well if you take care of them. It's just that I have had many disc drives break on me over the years, even with modern consoles. It's part of the reason why I preferred digital over physical last gen, and why I would just go all digital next gen. Eventually discs are only going to be good for modded consoles or PC emulators.
@Heavyarms55 The difference I see is you can buy a new car that functions the same.
The majority of games you won't be able to legally buy a functional replacement when they die.
I have been tempted to avoid playing my Fire Emblem GBA cart, and use a ROM I backed up from it, after hearing that game saves EVERY move automatically to the Suspend save (making the manual option pointless). That sounds killer on the cart if it uses Flash saving.
Here for a good time, not a long time.
Such is life.
Happy Gaming Y'all.
@BloodNinja My whole idea is that the foundation or museum would be non-profit and money made from that content would only go toward its maintenance and improvement of the system that holds it. Any additional money should go to charity.
Also any developer who re-released their game regularly would not have to put their game in the foundation.
But for rights holders uninterested in re-releasing titles or abandoned software or in the case of licensing issues the foundation would be where those titles end up instead.
The whole purpose would be actual preservation, not the thinly veiled excuse I see most people use online to justify piracy.
Another idea I just had would be to use excess funding made from the foundation to provide scholarships to would be developers.
@Heavyarms55 You’re the one with the idea, better copy write it!
@BloodNinja Naw, anyone who wants it can have it. I doubt I am the first person to suggest something like it and if people like the idea I hope they'll share it.
Keep them out of the heat & attempt to store in away the metal is safe from water (humidity) & less oxygen.
You all act like your new to electronics. There is a Gameboy out there that mostly survived a bomb. Its Tetris carriage still works, although it is melted some & stuck in the system.
Its been playing Tetris before long before the 3ds, and still is.
@KingMike No, it is the same. You can buy a newer Fire Emblem or similar strategy title just like you can buy a newer car. You can't buy that same car you had 15 years ago.
I don't see any issue with backing up a game you actually own. I do that too. And going back to the car comparison I think it could be comparable to taking that old car and restoring it.
But everything I find online suggests most people have no hesitation with buying a Chinese made emulation box with literally thousands of pirated roms on it. That's not a back up or preservation, it's piracy. And I would consider that like buying a stolen car or cheap knock off made to look like the original.
@Rohanrocks88 Never had a problem with them to be honest. That said, I always kept my cartridges / system as dust free as possible and was super careful with them which may have helped.
Always had an issue with the 3DS Pokemon games. Read issues day 1. Worst instance I had was I decided to boot up Pokemon Sun last year. As soon as I try to boot the game it would tell me I removed the card. Lucky none of my other games gave me trouble and hope it stays that way for a while
Honestly I'm more worried about the hardware that those games are played on rather than the games themselves. Because lets be real in this day and age game preservation is quite easy and is bound to happen time and time again while consoles such as the nintendo ds/3ds, wii etc because of their unique designs would be difficult to play their library of games on emulators or other systems
@Heavyarms55 I would say it’s more similar to when people purchase a car that has an illegal modification. Like yeah, I’m selling this Android box that has all these games in it. Where did they come from? Who knows? You would have to prove that the Chinese knock off is doing something illegal, just like you would have to prove that the car has an illegal mod in it.
@GTHOLLAND couldn't disagree more as an 18 year old i love my nes, snes and old pc games,.Games are like movies or books a piece of entertainment that maybe just a trend of its time or timeless. For instance i recently watched a silent film called dantes inferno which was available through youtube. For me it is a timeless film just like some nes,snes games are. Entertainment either being books, movies, games should be preserved so people can experience them. And i am not talking about museums preserving hardware or that kind of stuff, i am talking being able to simply search up the name and being able to download them as files
Don’t worry, yes your games will decay beyond playability, but before that happens the cupboard you store them in will collapse and crush you flat. So sleep easy.
@RayCHrasH
Searching for files. You mean stealing. Your not the typical 18 year old by the way.
My original Gameboy and NES broke, my laser went out on both my GameCube and my Wii...
@GTHOLLAND games that are over 30-40 years old that aren't even marketable or re released for current times doesn't seem like stealing
@RayCHrasH
Is it yours. No. Do you own it. No.
It's the same for music, movies etc. Just cos a Thin Lizzy album came out decades ago doesn't mean its okay to rip it cos you don't want to pay for it.
@Antraxx777
I'm amazed the battery hasn't died already! One time I plugged in my mario 64 and all my saves wouldn't show then after I blew the dust out of it they reappeared. That scared me.
Yes that is inevitably true, but at the same time, as long as there are tech experts out there I feel that games can always be preserved. I’ve had a local Mom and Pap electronics store repair my consoles and cartridges the few times they’ve crapped out on me and at reasonable prices mind you.
I’ve had no issue with any classic game in my collection and I have just about everything... I guess I just take care of my stuff?
Batteries haven’t even died in my NES, SNES and Genesis titles that use them.
Nothing lasts forever. Let us reason together with that in mind.
I collect Switch games. And Wii U, Wii, GC, 3DS, DS and Vita. Love physical. However, I am not one of those, "digital is cancer and I won't buy anything unless it's physical, all on cart at that" people.
And the reason is, well for one, even accepting physical would last forever and digital wouldn't (which I don't accept, but for the sake of argument let's pretend that's true) the convenience of digital simply outweighs those perks of physical. What good are physical games that last forever that I never play because it's a pain in the butt to swap carts out every time, panning through 350 games on the shelf to find the one I'm looking for...
But secondly, physical doesn't last forever. The shells and casings will last our lifetime, but they won't be functional. Disc rot and newer flash memory deterioration are problems old games didn't have. Digital, on the other hand, actually can and will be functional indefinitely. Because you can back up your microSD to multiple other devices, so the games live on, always ready to be replaced when needed.
Ah, but the hardware fails, you say! And you would be right. For physical that's not a problem- buy a new system! For digital you lose those games... right? Well, no, actually. Just re-download. But what if 30 years have passed and the server is down? As long as you have a backup system, that will truly last the rest of your life. Because the frequency of playing a legacy console 30 years from now will be slim. We'll all be too preoccupied playing the Switch 5 at that point to care about some old Switch 1 game more than on rare occasions. Or, every 20 years, do a system transfer before the system dies. You'll be able to pick up extra Switches for $100 at that point.
And so, the reality sets in that nothing is forever. Physical can't save you. Digital can't save you. Buy whichever you prefer, but do so knowing that physical is no better for preservation than digital. In fact, I wager when I'm on my deathbed, I'll still have a Switch with a microSD with all my games, fully playable. Something I doubt will be true for the physical only gang.
As long as they don't deteriorate before I deteriorate, I don't care.
I assume it might be best to store the games indoors. Nothing likes the cold. Motor oil stored in a cold garage over winter isn't good.
In my experience, only Atari 2600 games, SNES games, Genesis games, and N64 with no batteries built inside will last forever. Any game cart with batteries built in will die at some point. And no other cart based console seems to have game carts as durable.
Just wait until the Arcade1Up Cabinets' monitors die.
@NTELLIGENTMAN batteries and monitors can be replaced. It doesn’t take much effort which is a good thing.
@NTELLIGENTMAN As to Genesis games going bad, I've heard the rumors Grind Stomer PCBs are said to go bad (supposedly it is not the ROM chip that goes bad, people said they were able to transplant it to donor PCBs). Hadn't heard if anyone yet figured out what the mysterious cause was.
Not sure if it is any other Tengen games (a concern if you were collecting, since at least two of the most expensive Japanese exclusives are Tengen).
I have a lot of full system libraries as do many people, I think we good fam.
Well then I feel bad for the person who paid over six hundred thousand or so for a Mario game cartridge
Last month holy *****!😳
Look out, guys, GTHOLLAND's here to let us all know that preserving the Satellaview games like BS Legend of Zelda are the worst crime since the Holocaust.
Heaven forbid you play Mother 3 in English, GTHOLLAND wants you to know THAT IS A CRIME, AND YOU SHOULD BE ARRESTED.
What worries me more are those GC and Wii discs with the art "crusting" or whatever the term is. I have about 5 discs showing this defect despite keeping them in a mostly consistent 80°-90° room. Not sure what to do to prevent it.
@TryToBeHopeful dude I do! Have you seen my backlog?
So this means games should get cheaper from and for collectors since their is no Garantie they work the next day. ☺️
Would possibly deter me from re-buying any DS games on cartridge second hand. Next to the price point of course!
@GTHOLLAND Dude it's not like I don't wanna pay for it, but those albums, games etc aren't MARKETABLE anymore and don't even trying telling me buying a 300 euro cartridge from an ebay scalperi counts as "buying" ir. The creator of the original piece won't make any money and on top of all that I'll be getting a defective product cause of how old it is. I am super ok buying my games, movies albums in a new format(blue ray, new console etc) if the creator/developer is the one selling,i am not gonna spend thousand of dollars on a product that's not even worth the price that is selling for. I mean for instance how was i supposed to play a japanese only game such as shin megami tensei on snes, without it being patched in English as a rom. When i buy from an ebay seller i am not paying for someone's work, i am just paying a reseller for an overpriced hunk of plastic,that could possibly not even work
No need to worry everyone! we have the hacking community to take care of game preservation.
It's a sad case when you have to rely on that for game preservation, lets hope we get more museums taking interest in this. Places like the 'Centre for Computing History' in Cambridge UK are what we need as a trusted space.
@SwitchVogel
Imagine someone having say a Gutenberg Bible, someone else having a pdf of pictures of each page of a Gutenberg Bible, and someone else having a .txt file of the text of a Gutenberg Bible. One of those is incredibly important and valuable, one is important but not valuable, and one of them is almost meaningless. There you go.
@IcarusUnwinged You can view a digitised gutenberg bible on the British Library website, so it does exist! The text file would still be important, but less so from a historical point of view...
I'm not entirely sure I get the point, though.
@RasandeRose I hope the proton never decays
@Bunneyshoney I doubt they were going to play it
@TryToBeHopeful Wonderful song. Magnificent band.
But, yes. It's sad to think some time down the line my treasured collection will cease to function, but it's a part of life. As a crazy blonde guy from a popular ninja anime once said, "ART IS AN EXPLOSION!"
That brief, brilliant flash of existence only makes it that much more beautiful. Not just games, but life in general.
Enjoy it while you can.
"Everything has an end, only the sausage has two." Says the German. :/
@HaikuHiker I think the Wii U is perhaps going to show its true colours soon, I've already seen discs with data holes on them and machines not reading games.
that top layer is super fragile.
And we once again find ourselves in that awkward situation where we must rely on the warez scene to preserve games for future generations.
@TeddyBearSolid I was actually going for Flash Gordon, which is also linked to Queen, of course, and subconsciously mentioned by you in your comment!?
@TryToBeHopeful
Oh! Sorry, my guy! Went right over my head!
It states in the license that if your media storage device (this covers disks, cartridges, game cards etc) should fail, the publisher can replace them for a fee. It is looking like the duty of preservation is down to the publisher of the game license and any "reasonable" request of replacement by the license holder would be actionable by Law.
This actually means an awful lot of game companies are in deep *hit in regards to games that are faulty within 2 years (Batman Arkham city Armoured edition springs to mind, as every launch copy had a bug that rendered Harley's revenge unplayable). Any longer than 2 years and the Publisher can argue the License loses validity. It's not been tried in a court to see the actual outcome though. New territory just like internet Law.
TLDR ripping your games is the only correct option got it.
Or you could always emulate, @NicolausCamp
That works too
How is a DS cart dying but I’ve yet to find a dead NES or GB cart that’s dead? What’s the difference in the save media?
So Nintendo has sold us a faulty item from day one
I think Nintendo need another lawsuite thrown at them
And should pay people for the carts that don't work any more
It's about time Nintendo get their quality control up to scratch
Not to mention the switch drift
Not at all nintendo
@Heavyarms55 "I would like to see a more serious stance on it. Perhaps creating some sort of non profit foundation with the purpose of preservation of legacy content that could have limited public access."
https://gamehistory.org/our-mission/
https://gamehistory.org/who-we-are/
@PixelPerfect I knew someone else had to have that idea! But the fact that I hadn't heard of it yet suggests they aren't terribly well known.
@Heavyarms55 with all due upmost respect, the fact that you haven't heard about them only suggests that you haven't heard about them. They have a regular and very large presence in game conventions such as the Portland Retro Gaming Expo. They're operated by a number of major players in the gaming industry (hence the second link) with strong associations to very popular gaming content creators. Some of the biggest contributions to game preservation like dumping the Sim City NES prototype was done by them. In fact, NintendoLife wrote an article about this and even referenced the Video Game History Foundation as the responsible party.
Anyway, now you know
You can but it in case to keep it from deteriorating?
Well thanks for telling us the blatantly obvious. Who would have thought that things will eventually wear down and stop working? Certainly not anyone who has ever owned anything.
PSA: Yes, Your life Will Eventually Deteriorate, until you die. But Don't Panic
I can confirm that Voultars tips for restoring cartridges are all good. Just recently I started reflowing SMD chips on Gameboy games that are flaky despite having new batteries and spotless contacts, after seeing one of his videos ln the topic. That's actually what I came here to comment on. My own recent experiences with restoring and modding NES and SNES cartridges also has me routinely replacing the electrolytic capacitors. Doing so can revive a seemingly dead cart, or in some cases reduce signal noise when playing on original hardware.
@InAnotherCastle As a video game collector I always find this restoration information very interesting. It's always good to know how to get a game working again if it for some reason stops working. With discs it's usually something that can't be fixed, but with carts it seems like there is a lot that can be done.
Came for the “Update,” left just as nervous as before about my physical collection 😩
I know how to solder and am comfortable with doing these things but knowing I could lose my Stella Glow has me shakin’ in m’booties
The debate is a tough nut to crack, for sure, especially because various means of "preservation" drift into the darker shades of gray/grey...
Either way, even though I'm not a physical media purist (how could I be with half of my current collection being full-digital?), I'd still put all my money on my physical media outlasting me vs the uncertainty of still being able to download my digital media, let alone play it because DO keep in mind: even keeping copies of those digital games does NOT mean that you'll still be able to play them.
Why? Because servers are pulled, licenses revoked, and sometimes games are patched to be locked out, from online multiplayer, for example, making games either partially unplayable, with only the offline/single player portion left, or with even that disabled as well. Meanwhile, my unpatched physical edition will still fully work, depending on the nature of the title.
Obviously, the example that I gave earlier still applies to unpatched games as well: if there's no online/multiplayer support anymore, then you're basically stuck with half a game, but still: always better than having it entirely disabled because of some "sorry, but we're not supporting this game anymore and so you're not allowed to play it anymore" patch...
A factual example: on Xbox alone, a grand total of well over 2000 titles have already been pulled/removed FOREVER. Not crippled, not altered, not side-lined, no COMPLETELY gone regardless of whether or not you bought the title or the license.
That is also why I don't like and trust newer initiatives like Google Stadia: companies too big for their own good dipping their toes into the video gaming industry, turning it into a video rental service instead of an actually collectable and fully own-able hobby.
@Heavyarms55 I'm kinda hesitant to jump into the conversation, but I simply HAD to share my thoughts on the matter. Mind you, I largely agree with you, safe for a couple of rather important points:
As for the timing of when games should become free/abandonware, I'd say when their original publisher/developer doesn't exist anymore and no one else picks up or takes over the license. At that point, the term abandonware most definitely applies. Examples are games on practically all the old home computers released between the 80s and 90s, such as the Commodore C64, Commodore Amiga, MSX, Spectrum Sinclair, BBC, Atari ST and so on. Arguably, a lot of 8 and 16 bit console games also fall into this category, for the same reason that their publisher and/or developer simply doesn't exist anymore, so these are basically all titles without owners or active license.
What I'm saying with that part of my comment is that downloading, copying and playing these games without paying for them isn't hurting anyone or anything anymore: seeing as there is no publisher/developer that you could send your money to in order for it to validate your "purchase", so the option doesn't even exist.
But yeah, in closing, I only consider this point of view to apply to older games, so I don't mean games from last generation's consoles or handhelds. I know that people nowadays are a bit quicker with labeling stuff as "old", but that's just a lame excuse.
As for my own current usage of backups/copies: the only console I've ever soft-modded is my Wii, and after I attached an external hard drive to it, I put all of my Wii and GameCube games on there, so I don't have to use the original discs anymore. Also saves wear and tear on the disc drives as well, obviously...
Other than that, I put all kinds of retro collections on there, also mainly of either own collections, abandonware or games otherwise not available anymore, making sure that it won't affect any company in any kind of serious way.
Besides that, all my other consoles are not modded and only use original media.
@ThanosReXXX I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I don't agree entirely but that's alright. You make good points about it and are a lot more polite than I usually see. Quite different from the entitled folks who think they are owed access to an entire library of games simply because they aren't for sale anymore.
@Heavyarms55 Yeah, sadly that's true. It's probably the same people that are too lazy or entitled to look in the bargain bin or browse a web shop for used/pre-owned games, because they want premium content for bottom of the barrel prices or for free...
On a side note: I'm perfectly fine with you sticking to your guns, as long as it's not digging your heels into the sand for the sake of it.
If you wouldn't mind, I would like to hear/read your thoughts on the point I made about games in the abandonware category, aka the games without publishers/developers that couldn't possibly be legally bought anymore, even if you wanted to.
If you'd rather not comment on the matter, then that's fine as well, but having said that, I am curious.
They last much, much, much, much, much longer than the digital license you receive for a limited time when you think you’re “buying” a digital download game. 😉
@JayJ indeed! After reacquiring Zelda for the Gameboy a couple of years ago and getting the predictable battery issue, that's what got me interested in modding and repair of all the old consoles and cartridges. For me it didn't take long after discovering that this sort of stuff was possible before it just became an endlessly motivational project. And yeah, I'll bet most of the "it was sitting on a shelf when it stopped working" issues can be resolved somehow 😃
Thank God for the ability to burn new Dreamcast discs.
@InAnotherCastle Especially now a days when dealing with classic consoles. You can't exactly buy this stuff new anymore and it's getting pricey and hard to find used, and used stuff can be very hit and miss and have it's own issues, so being able to fix it really pays off.
@ThanosReXXX I mean if something was made by a studio that no longer exists and no individuals own the rights to it anymore, I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be fair game.
But that really only applies to very old games in most cases. If people do still own the rights to something, then I think it should remain theirs regardless of age. We could say that once the people who actually made something are dead, then their work is fair game, but sometimes it's the case that the original creator is dead but a company is still actively using that IP.
Take Disney and Mickey Mouse or the various superheroes Stan Lee made. Should all that work just become fair game cause the original author is dead? I don't agree because they're still active IPs with new content being produced. And I do think that's the key point. If they're still owned and content is still being made, it's not abandonware even if it was made a century or longer ago.
But if something truly is abandoned? No one owns it, nothing is being made with it anymore? Then yeah, fair game.
It's good to be digital.
@Ryu_Niiyama yeah, ignore him. He's insane and goes totally crazy, if someone doesn't share his opinion.
But will my skipbo cards make it through Y2K?
@JayJ Yup. There's also a certain satisfaction knowing how or why a component failed and then ordering up a replacement rated for better longevity. These days there's even full replacement PCBs available for making homebrew - or very real and physical backups. I've been using some that support programmable ROMs to put a ROM hack or translated version of a game inside its original cartridge and then keeping the original in the cardboard box
@HawkeyeWii It's all about storage, keep them out of sunlight and at a consistent temperature. All my NES games still play fine. However think about the size of the chips in NES carts vs DS. They are far more substantial and likely to last longer as a result.
@Heavyarms55 Well, in that case we actually fully agree, or at least on that specific point, because I also don't believe that if the original creators aren't there anymore, that we should then be able to freely copy or download their work, but when their work is truly and completely abandoned and/or without any official way of paying for it? Then, yeah: fair game indeed...
@InAnotherCastle Yeah it's amazing how you can really blend modern technology with classic consoles and enhance them these days.
@gcunit
Science Girl here, srys was on vacation or something. ~ yeah the comments sort of took a turn away from this (curiosity on the underlying mechanisms )~~ maybe /hope hopes(!!) everyone knows about solid state, semiconductors, pitch length, different forms of related memory, flash specific weird stuffs etc.
Just like carts, the game console or computer itself has chips, ram, etc with various levels of durability. Higher temperature is known to correlate to reduced longevity; but it’s just a “make sure the fan is running” sort of concern.
Uneven wear is another concern (sort of key, but it includes all types)..
(think of how the carpet in your apt gets worn out where you walk in the door)
~ it is possible that the sort of operating systems etc can be prone to errors which can destroy solid state machines.
Yes, there are leveling methods etc. Yes they SHOULD be designed for 40 yrs of daily use etc. Yes there are other details- this is just a forum not a science lecture..
It’s actually not wrong to consider solid state devices mechanical in a sense. The electrons ARE matter, the solid state assumption requires that the non valiance level electrons are neglected. Of course it’s true that p-n regions (any doped region, Si based or not) degrade. There are other mechanisms as well. Volatile memory needs a battery or to be powered on or it’s gone.
Flash is a bit weird~ Frohman-Bentchkowsky‘s non volatile cmos concept[4], they now maximize density with multi-level cell architecture of this floating gate, using commiserate high(er) voltage schemes. There is a sort of capacitor death failure mode proposed in the literature (or is it an oxide induction issue or am I making it all up lol jk ~ wow you read this far!?)
If you did... the wear thing is pretty confusing right? Like are the electrons worn out!?
So it turns out there are a number of things going on. It’s been a while... (mothra flies out of Science Girl’s ear) - Drain problems are like opening the transistor gate to move the ponies, but the last batch of ponies won’t get along to pasture.
Degradation can minorly change the gate voltage so it’s like the paddock gate opens before it should or stays closed when it should open. Etc. I could dust off the solid state book! But I think I’m going long as it is Lol. Some reading, listed specific to foundational.
[ 1]
https://past.date-conference.com/proceedings-archive/2017/pdf/0394.pdf
[2] https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.170.5030&rep=rep1&type=pdf
[3] http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~omutlu/pub/flash-memory-failures-in-the-field-at-facebook_sigmetrics15.pdf
Book on this:
[4] Cappelletti, Paulo, et al., eds. Flash memories. Springer Science & Business Media, 2013.
@FourBs Thankfully I primarily use the virtual console (though god help me if the console explodes), though the fact that I may not be able to play games like SSB4 or Splatoon is a bit worrying... Thanks for letting me know!
@JayJ Might be the Memory Chip within the Cartridge losing contact with the cartridge's motherboard, take it to a specialized tech
I do'nt think any cartridges will stop working. company's like nintendo made them to last forever. I have an atari 2600 and the cartridges still work and there 40 year's old I also have cassetes for a zx spectrum and there more delicate than a cartridge and they still load up. As l long as you look after them they will work.
@NicolausCamp interesting take. I was thinking if the hardware gets ruined then if I had a cartridge I would just buy another console. Alas that won’t work either. Lol.
Seriously, every time you load or save a game, you take a tiny amount of its life. What the heck?!!
Why is this an issue now? No one back on 2014 could have predicted this I mean, anybody with a GBA cartridge still working? How will this affect our gaming lifestyles?
As long as I can backup them though cloud saves, I don't think I should worry that much though.
They spoke about this before, remember?https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/02/retro_this_is_why_we_should_probably_be_glad_nintendo_stuck_with_carts_for_the_n64
How can games save on microSD cards? I've never seen that on switch.
@Dr_G_Lemaitre You know i was just going to talk about that when i saw your comment. of course, i don't think mine would have been as long. someone got close mentioning how the in-game cartridge may be detaching, but actually it's a lot sadder than that. your cartridge is in tack. Anyone who knows what a Solid-State Drive is (SSD) understands that they don't last forever. The biggest reason being that any kind of flash memory requires there to be power connected constantly. So, inside an SSD you have a battery. Now this does not apply to all games, because not all games store your information this way. For example, all Pokémon games save data is stored in the cartridge. You can prove this by sticking your Pokémon game in someone else's DS system. Your save data will pop up. I myself have tested this considering how many systems I have owned, and Gameboy advance was one of my personal favorites. the first 3DS system i ever owned was actually a 2DS, that unfortunately had its battery explode. anyways because your ds cartridges have batteries in them, if you don't play that game enough, the battery dies, and you lose all your storage. Not only that, but remember what is said about my 2DS battery exploding? That can happen to the cartridge too. only problem is, the 2DS doesn't have enough room for your battery to explode so the back is going to pop out, your game cartridge does have enough room for it to explode. So, you won't know till you put it in. Also, you will be able to tell the difference between the battery dying and the battery exploding, because one will boot the game without your save data (battery died) and the other won't recognize the cartridges presence (battery exploded). er- mostly, it may tell you it doesn't recognize the game. If it tells you, it doesn't recognize the game, don't worry (to an extant) you have the chips in the back. Take a look because they might just be damaged.
P.S. when you say a battery exploded, it has a couple of meanings, i mean essentially, its guts get poured out
P.P.S. Remember what i said about it not going to be long? Guess i lied.
@Heavyarms55 As much as I love Nintendo, and gaming in general, we should agree that piracy/preservation of games is a need. What do you get from missing out on a good game that is either:
What do you get from not playing them just because you think piracy = bad? Do you think Nintendo will salute people who proclaim about not supporting downloading a rom? Will you get a trophy? We need to preserve those games. Because people, somewhere, want to play them.
If it wasn't for emulation and rom websites, I couldn't have played Magician's quest. I AM planning on someday buying the game (though it'll take long since it's a rare one), but only because I played it before through piracy.
It's because they can't own the damn game in the first place.
Or it isn't available in their country.
They might not even have enough money to buy it (my case currently with Pokémon Spulsilver and Magician's Quest).
Everyone should experience the happiness from playing a game they want. Nintendo doesn't care about us, or our feelings. They want money. They don't know if you are or not playing their 10-year-old+ games legitimately or not, nor do the developers.
Things will one day disappear, just like us. Why live a sad life because the company wants your money no matter what?
Having said that, yes I do own the games I wanted most, but some expensive (Magicians Quest, you know the drill) or region-locked ones (MOTHER 3) I can't buy. So I download them from websites)(in MOTHER 3's case, that's the only way to get the english translation since it never had an official one)
Oh and about the "cartridges will deteriorate" thing, I'll backup my cartridge's roms and save files into an SD card, I read in one of your comments that you also do it, so I'm glad we can agree that that isn't a problem at least.
Don't take this as personal, or as me attacking you, that isn't my intention, I'm just giving my opinion on your comments. Peace
@Sejha exactly
@Heavyarms55 though I also disagree with the "games should be public domain" and "games should be free after 10 years", I will hold my point of piracy/game preservation being important, and necessary. And the idea of a game museum was already created, as someone menioned before, you had a nive idea, and someone actually did it!! Nice for the gaming community
I rarely pirate, but when it's needed because something is out of my reach, or way too expensive, I have to.
well nintendo is ***** out of luck there is nothing i can do this is why we emulate so nintendo ip better not come crying to us again. or get raged in tears or pissed. this is why physical copies either pre made from the factory or copied on the blank does not make any backup copy longer because of terrible censorship or somebody sucks at handling them.
@joethemacuserbatntd and im outta here you ammitures.
@joethemacuserbatntd well there is another way to go digital use computer with emulators i know piracy is bad but it does not matter it's a busted myth but it's a b**** to back em up if they rot or brittle away look how bad these plastic cases become if you tried to hit harder they are brittle like cassette loosing teeth guides.
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