Since Switch launched back in March 2017, we've spoken to developers several times about the eShop, its discoverability problems and the tactics being employed to get noticed and sell games on Nintendo's digital storefront. At launch, the eShop was very much in line with the console's no-nonsense Home menu — simple, functional and decidedly unflashy.
However, as time has gone on and thousands of games have dropped on Switch, the eShop operates largely the same as it did on launch day, which has become a big issue for publishers when it comes to simply getting noticed on Nintendo's store.
"The issue with the eShop is that it was never built for discoverability, which is a bad thing for both devs and consumers," says Mike Rose of publisher No More Robots. Rose posted a Twitter thread in the last week of September that went into quite some detail regarding his experience publishing on Switch eShop, and we caught up with him via email to find out a little more.
In the long thread (above), Rose spoke about the comparative sales performance of four No More Robots Switch releases this year: Not Tonight, Yes, Your Grace, Nowhere Prophet and Hypnospace Outlaw. His findings make for fascinating reading, especially alongside SMG CEO Ashley Ringrose's comments from our interview earlier in the year on the effect eShop discounts have on indie game sales. We'll touch on the main points here, but we recommend taking a few minutes and reading the entire Twitter thread.
Rose has been outspoken in the past on his frustrations with other online storefronts, not only the "heartbreaking" Switch eShop, but having had the opportunity to experiment on Switch this year, he's drawn some interesting — and somewhat depressing — conclusions.
For instance, he believes that Metacritic scores matter on Switch more than other digital game storefronts. We’ve certainly noticed games displaying their Metascore prominently on their main Switch eShop images. "As far as I can tell, it's partially to do with how people find discounts and deals for Switch games," says Rose when asked to elaborate. It appears that huge discount + decent 'green' Metacritic score = insta-buy for many Switch gamers browsing the eShop. "I know a lot of Switch users utilise sites like Deku Deals and the like, and those sites tend to display Metacritic score prominently, and even allow you to filter by MC scores. So that's likely a big part of it."
After previously imploring indie devs to not "devalue [their] work! Don’t deep discount!”, Rose wrote about reaching the end of his tether and having to make a tough choice. With Nintendo's charts dependent on the number of units sold rather than the revenue generated from sales, No More Robots made the decision to put Not Tonight on sale for 90% off.
"Yeah it was not a fun decision to make," he reiterates. "As I mentioned in my Twitter thread, I kept holding off and holding off on such a discount, but then I kept seeing the same games and the same publisher appearing in the top sellers charts over and over, and they were obviously manipulating the store to make a ton of money. I mean, how many times do we need to see Thief Simulator before we're sick of it? Apparently not enough, given how often it's 90% off at the top of the eShop!"
eventually I had to grit my teeth and try a 'can't beat them, join them' approach... if everyone else is breaking the store, what else can you do?
"So eventually I had to grit my teeth and try a 'can't beat them, join them' approach. I should say, I don't know if I actually plan to do it with any of our other games yet, and it's likely that I'll keep it as a continuous experiment with Not Tonight. But in the end, if everyone else is breaking the store, what else can you do?"
The benefits of the deep discount were very quickly reflected in sales. In the Twitter thread, Rose wrote: "In 24 hours, we entered the top 30 charts. In a week, we'd topped the charts. We sat there for 2 more weeks before the sale ended. The game nearly sold as many units during those 4 weeks, as it has sold in its lifetime on Steam. It made 6 figure revenue.".
In a way, it feels like learning to sell on eShop has become it's own little meta-game; Rose had finally discovered how to 'play' the eShop. "To be honest that's how I see all marketing and publishing, and it makes it a lot of fun. The success of the 90% off sale was certainly eye-opening, as you might expect, and it's actually led us to explore future plans with Not Tonight. But there was also quite a lot of feelings of 'eugh' with it too, realizing that 'joining them' meant selling my soul a little."
No More Robots went on to experiment with a smaller discount with Yes, Your Grace which performed well enough, revenue-wise, although it couldn't touch Not Tonight in the charts. Yes, Your Grace was also a featured game on the store, although featured status on the storefront didn't translate into sales like the publisher had hoped. Rose was also concerned that deep discounts on eShop would tank Steam sales, but they seemed entirely unaffected — in fact, they enjoyed a very small increase.
When it somes to Nintendo's competitors, Rose has nothing but positive things to say about Microsoft's Game Pass. No More Robots is in the position to compare sales across multiple platforms — a comparison which smaller developers and publishers might not be able to make. We asked him if devs who aren’t able to launch across all consoles would be better off ‘gaming’ the eShop with discounts first, or putting their game on Game Pass initially and coming to Switch later?
I would strongly suggest that deep discounts should not be any developer's go-to strategy... We definitely will never do deep discounts on any other platform
"It's tricky, because it all really depends on the game, the genre, the price point, etc. Xbox Game Pass has been a blessing for us, as the revenue that comes from that makes our console ports immediately profitable — but that's not to say that it can work for every game and developer."
Despite success with the tactic, he remains cautious in his approach. "I would strongly suggest that deep discounts should not be any developer's go-to strategy. Perhaps when your game has been out for a little while and sales have dried up, that might be an avenue to explore specifically on Switch. We definitely will never do deep discounts on any other platform — we usually do discounts between 15-40% on Steam, Xbox etc, and those work out great for us."
We wondered how Rose might tweak the eShop if he were put in charge of a redesign. Could Nintendo adopt approaches from other storefronts to improve the eShop situation?
"Devs struggle to utilize the eShop to sell their games," he replies, "and consumers struggle to find anything on there, other than games they literally went looking for. What other stores have accomplished, such as Steam, is to learn what a consumer likes in their games, and then gently offer them similar games, or recommend titles that fall in the same genre, price band etc. Obviously the eShop does nothing like that right now — the Discover tab is simply what Nintendo has decided to push that week."
"So I think the two main points I would hit would be creating some more discoverability outlets on the eShop, while also ranking everything by revenue rather than units, to stop all the deep discounts easily floating to the top."
Nintendo's approach on Switch is a far cry from the eShops on the platform holder's previous consoles, and idly scrolling through the long list of discounted games has become a weekly occurrence for many of us. We asked if Rose himself wades through the eShop for bargains.
I'm a strong believer in supporting smaller dev teams, so sometimes I like to just pick a few games up and see what the chat is
"I do wade through the eShop quite frequently, it's how I choose the game I buy a lot of the time, but recently it has become harder and harder to do so. You usually have to scroll through pages and pages of deals before you even find one or two interesting-looking titles, just because of the sheer numbers of titles that you've already seen a bunch of times for 90% off. I still try though — I'm a strong believer in supporting smaller dev teams, so sometimes I like to just pick a few games up and see what the chat is."
No More Robots has a fifth game hitting the eShop this November: downhill biker Descenders lands on Switch on 6th November. We asked if he feels in a better position with that upcoming Switch launch; does he expect it to follow the trend of previous titles or throw another curve ball?
"Descenders is a bit of an odd game, in that it just doesn't follow the rules when it comes to what sales figures should look like. Because so many people know the game now, and because it's done so well on other platforms, at this point I just kinda know it's going to do well on Switch. We saw this with the PS4 launch last month — with not a huge amount of platform push on launch week, the game still sold like crazy and continues to do so, simply off the back of its previous success. Having more than 3 million players for your game before you even launch on Switch, is always going to leak into the new platforms. So I'm fairly confident we'll see the same success on Switch too."
Given the precarious nature of things on the eShop for many smaller companies, 'fairly confident' certainly sounds like a win for a growing publisher, and Rose knows he's in a fortunate position. "As you'd imagine, it's a pretty nice situation to be in, and it does kinda take the pressure off us quite a bit. Which is very pleasant, because 2020 has been a loooong, tiring year haha."
Our thanks to Mike for his time. Descenders is finally launching on Switch on 6th November, and all of the other games mentioned above can be found on eShop right now — if you look hard enough.
Comments 118
Just make a good game, that's the key thing.
TLDR: viral marketing for Game Pass
@Lordplops That is part of it. However, there are gems out there that are not easily discovered. Someone in the forums recently recommended Cubixx, a Qix clone on a cube. I had no idea this game existed.
I think a lot of complaints about the eShop are overblown. I check in a couple of times a week and look at the new releases and coming-soon sections. That keeps me abreast of everything. Also, checking the new-release list here every Thursday helps a bunch.
I do think Nintendo's best try at this was on the Wii, with games sorted by genre, publisher and system (for the VC), as well as with a listing for new releases.
@Lordplops Hello! If only that we’re the case. Unfortunately, as hundreds of game developers who make highly lauded games can attest, simply making a great game is not enough, and never really has been. If that we’re true, the eShop wouldn’t be so difficult to traverse
@SalvorHardin hey! I was asked a question about how our games do on Xbox in comparison, so I answered it, mentioning Game Pass once. If that quick answer counts as “viral marketing” for this entire interview, then fair enough!
Has anyone else noticed how slow the eShop has become?
Discoverability’s a big problem with the Switch. I do feel that creativity and pushing the envelope can be somewhat stifled on Switch as for a lot of indie devs, making it into a showcase is the only way to get their game out there. Nintendo just wouldn’t have advertised Not Tonight due to subject matter, which is a real shame.
@NoMoreRobots making a good/great game has indeed been very important, since game development began, as the Nevada desert can attest.
This whole article reminds me a little bit of actors who moan about not getting awards - for various reasons - when the cold hard truth is they didn't win because they weren't very good.
Honestly as a consumer i'd just like a "genre" tab/button(s) to be part of the main UI or even greeting table rather than buried beneath the search tools.
I'm often more interested in searching for the "latest/best selling games in X genres" than any general cross genre list... which means I always have to go through multiple layers of the search tool
The WiiU eshop get a lot of flak for how heavy it was but it still made a very fantastic job of presenting games in multiple categories that were really easy to browse in my opinion(of course that might be a distorted opinion because of how little titles there were on the WiiU).
Meanwhile the pace of releases is such that where the Switch eshop indeed was faster than the WiiU's initially... it's now reaching a point where it feels just as sluggish to browse games on Switch than on WiiU... but in a way that feel like we gave less functionality?
This kind of bug me as I USED to enjoy the Switch eshop but that's when there were less titles and it was MUCH faster to browse. Now it feels like a slog unless one goes through layers upon layers of the search tool which is becoming non-intuitive.
It definitely makes me miss the multiple featured tabs of the WiiU such as the Mario/Zelda tab but also the curated "Featured Indies" tab used to promote specific indie titles right upon leaving the store, down right to the art of the tab allowing to promote specific indie franchise like Shovel Knight/etc.
Heck, that's even how I learned and ended up getting Shovel Knight in the first place originally.
I think one of the biggest challenges with making a game stand out these days is that there are just so many genuinely great games releasing on the eShop frequently. Most weeks there's at least one or two games well worth playing. Anything that's not quite at that level is going to have a much tougher time attracting attention without significant sales. Even the games I really want to play these days I rarely play full price for as I already have so many things to play already so I'd rather be patient and get them for cheaper most of the time.
Getting the word out and marketing outside of the eShop seems pretty vital. I'm very diligent when it comes to checking the eShop but with so many games releasing each week, I'm not going to take the time to look into them all and if I don't read about them on websites such as here, they can occasionally slip past me completely.
@Crono1973 I think that's on your end. If anything it's been loading faster for me lately.
I'm going to be brutally honest. When I go shopping, I know what I want to buy before I even log on to the eshop. Finding what I want is a cinch because it's so no frills.
I'm not sure what the solution is to this dilemma, as it is to do with folks spending habits. Maybe slapping a game on the eshop simply isn't enough and it needs some marketing outside in other areas. After all, these days, every man and his dog is making games, and with so many decades to 'draw from', it's rather congested.
I would, however, resent having stuff shoved in my face while I'm trying to buy something. Regardless of how good that thing is.
@Lordplops - If that worked, Ever Oasis and Codename STEAM would be way more popular than it is and CoD would be way less popular than it is.
Nintendo have definitely missed a trick here. I dont speak for anyone but myself, but I gave up browsing the eShop over a year ago. It's a minefield of absolute garbage that I frankly cannot be bothered to sift through. The cream most definitely does not rise to the top, either. Its distorted by all sorts of developer tactics and is not helped by a complete lack of quality control, tailored recommendations, useful search parameters and relevance.
Maybe I'm the only one, but there's money left on my table for sure.
@Lordplops
Yeah. Hades is #1 on the italian eShop chart, before Mario.
There are more than 40 new releases just this week, at this point you need a masterpiece under your sleeve, can't just argue with people not buying Yes, Your Grace.
This sounds just like the slippery slope the App Store fell down until it became a free-to-play hellhole full of micro transactions and advertising.
I think Nintendo should set a minimum price of £10 on the eShop, I think that would discourage the shovelware merchants while still ensuring honest developers who make more budget priced games still have a place on there.
@NoMoreRobots Don't worry, some of us are going to trust lived experience, over the knowledge of back-seat game devs in comments. Best wishes for your business!
I've never heard from this developer, or their games. And after taking a look.. I really don't want to.
Don't blame Nintendo if your game doesn't sell.
I've never hear of Nowhere Prophet, but as a huge sly the spire fan it looks like something I'd be into.
Unless I fav an indie game once it comes out I'll probably forget about it. With Nintendo and-deep discounted indies dominating the charts, other games can quickly drop off that list.
Even the games on sale list is a massive pain to trawl through. Better search functions and game type breakdowns would be good. Player reviews would also be helpful to me.
I don't get why devs/publishers moan about Metacritic. If you got great reviews why wouldn't you use them to advertise? It's the same as film, books etc.
So charging too much for your game makes for less sales which costs you free advertising.
The reality is the market for this kind of thing is saturated. So the rational prices might well go below the cost of production. Welcome to capitalism.
Packaging no longer sells products thanks to the internet. We read reviews and compare prices. Stores will give new products a brief spotlight but it's up to that product's quality to keep sales going. The only other thing you can offer is discounts. Welcome to the new retail world. You're not "selling your soul". You're marketing.
tbh, nintendo eshop is good for browsing new games. I only have the xbox marketplace to compare it to, but the eshop is much more welcoming and simple to use. There could definitely be improvements to it, like maybe some alerts for when your wishlist game goes on sale. But I find it easy to browse the latest releases
The truth is, you aren't selling to robots. You are selling to people who will look at your game, gameplay, trailer, and determine its value. If your game does not seem like it is worth what you are charging the consumer, they will more than likely not buy it.
@Lordplops it reminds me more of Martin Scorcese moaning about Marvel/Disney taking up all the cinemas
yt and web sites i look at and then only then if something takes my fancy will i head eshop. ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff useless piece of garbage. but having wife in charge of tokyo office despite all having work i phones laptops they still fax each other and puzzled why no one else has a fax machine
considering this is the publisher of hypnospace outlaw, which has only seen good press and been lauded since release (including on this website!), i don't really get where the "just make a good game! make a game that isn't stupid!" arguments are coming from
Thief Simulator is getting tedious now. I'd like to be able to block games and not see them anymore. I'm never going to buy that tosh, I wouldn't get it for 1p. stop showing me it.
@NoMoreRobots thanks for sharing the results of your experiments on the eShop.
We mostly all agree it’s a mess because of how easily games the system is. It means that many great games end up going nowhere.
Good luck with your forthcoming launch.
@ummyeahnintendo the problem is that ‘the people’ are largely just gobbling up games to add to their backlogs. They see huge 90% discounts and think “ok - just in case it’s any good”.
@ummyeahnintendo I got an email this week saying that 34 games on my wishlist were on offer. It didn't say which ones though, and I still had to browse through the eshop like usual lol
@PapaMurphy huh, does that only happen when you have a certain amount of games going on sale? i got my usual bi-weekly email saying Golf Peaks was on sale today (like always)
@Lordplops That just isnt true. There are some good titles buried miles into the eshops terrible interface. Even just looking through the deals the store loads painfully slow and has no organization to it. Theres a flood of these mobile ports that say they are $30 then go on sale for a few cents, then miles at the bottom are the gems.
The eshop is the absolute worst in design.
Im tired of the constant mobile ports that are free on Android and iPhone but somehow $30 on eshop. They appear all the same time, get added to the deals page and all the good games and gems get buried. I know that Xbox and PlayStation have those as well but for the most part they are kind of at the bottom of every list.
But Nintendo sees fit to just merge them in with AAA games.
Like the ones we see now are $30 full price on sale for 6c, like really? Or the clone of a clone of a clone games that seem to hit the top few pages of the deals all the time.
I bought Not Tonight at full price when it came out. It's a great game, couldn't believe it got discounted so highly. It is a little niche in that you have to be super alert and used to scanning things with your eyes.
@somebread hmmm I dunno mate, come to think about it, I think it's the first one I've ever got. I'm still pretty new to all this though. Only about 6 months since I got back into gaming and joined here.
Basically, I look at the new New releases Section and then if anything catches my eye, I’ll add it to my Wish List and wait for it to be at least 50% before I even consider buying it. Absolutely Not paying what most charge full price
So they made six figures and his customers got a huge discount out of it? That doesn't sound like something to complain about
If you want an eshop ranking by revenue then create a website for it. Ranking by revenue doesn't sound like a way to discover quality games. It does sound like a way for game makers to land more deals with game publishers. I don't have a problem with games ranked by units sold. Most gamers are interested to know what the buzz is about the games that are popular - it's human nature to join fashions and trends. Also gaming is an expensive hobby and we're going into a steep recession. Attacking gamers for spending less on games because that's what they can afford, is not a good look. Don't attack your consumers. Don't be a snob.
I hope to read this article soon, but for now I can attest that wading through the eShop is a real slog. Regularly I'll come across games--good games--that I'd completely forgotten existed on the eShop. Great stuff can quickly get lost and forgotten.
Honestly Nintendo really needs a complete overhaul of their eshop. The organization is simply awful and it's a joke how you can't sort games alphabetically by genre for example.
Simple truth is that there are too many games and not enough time to play them. I have over 100 games on my various wish lists and a large back log...
That dude went on a rant against people on ResetEra just because they care about the Switch icons. It went so far that he announced to changed icons of his games just to piss them off.
There's a slight flaw in the comparisons in this feature. Assuming I'm an average consumer (which I think I am, hitting many averages in life in general), I'm never going to buy Yes, Your Grace where I've at least had some interest in Not Tonight.
Sounds to me like price, and further, value is the biggest thing here. Not saying these folks make bad games, at worst you're looking at a game that's just "decent", but there are top quality indie games that are the same price or even cheaper than $20-$25.
These guys said it themselves, Game Pass really helped them out, but MS is almost giving a bunch of games away, not really the same thing here. Pretty disingenuous to compare sales of a service that has bunch of games for $1 a month versus a single game for $20-$25.
@Lordplops Then why does the term “hidden gem” exist? Wouldn’t that be referencing a really great game that didn’t get discovered, for whatever reason?
@Aerona He wasn’t complaining about that, that’s the after-effect. What’s with all the nonsense and roasting in this article? Lmfao
@sanderev “I don’t like their game so nobody should like their game.” Basically how you sound.
The solution is simple: isolate all the bad games in a "crap" section of the eshop. That should get rid of a good 90% of the shovelwares nobody wants and clear up the eshop a bit
This complaint that poor metacritic scores negatively impact game sales seems to express a strong preference for uninformed consumers. Which is anti-consumer. Movie industry hates RottenTomatoes website review scores for the same reason.
@Rohanrocks88 I've never heard about this deku deals site before, what makes it so good? Does it have discounts for games or is it just an easier way to find games which match your tastes?
(I realise Google exists but I'm asking for a personal recommendation rather than trawling the internet for answers I might not find, just in case anyone wants to get sassy with me 😉)
Dumb question, is the Switch powerful enough to make an eshop work & run like they want?
So, his solution to improve the eShop is to have it push (or “recommend”, I should say) games to me that it wants me to buy? Using algorithms trying to interpret my taste? Like every other annoying, intrusive and bloated digital storefront?
Yeah, thanks but no thanks.
I don’t need any company trying to steer me to what I want. I’m not an imbecile. I know what I want, mate.
If you want your game to be discovered organically, then at your next design meeting, examine how you came to make a “video game” about “a rude bouncer sim about brexit”. Start with that and go from there.
It’s not hard.
As a recent Deku Deals convert, I'd recommend it to any Switch owner. Mich more categories of lists to browse, including new releases, new sales, deep discounts etc that make keeping on top of new games and offers much easier. That they record the history of sales too is quite neat, so it's easy to see if a game has had better deals or if it's one that regularly sees discounts to make more informed budget choices.
Personally, I've found some hidden gems and taken a punt on a fair few sale games I might have otherwise missed were it not for the site. They're doing a better job of keeping things transparent than the estore.
Edit: beaten to post by 10 seconds, bit the sentiment is the same. Get yourself to Deku Deals.
I can't help but agree with this article. I recently played one of their games, Hypnospace Outlaw, and it was excellent, but I would never have heard of it if it hadn't been featured in a Nintendo Direct. Since I play a lot of those types of cheap "experimental" type games like Telling Lies and Stories Untold, it should have been something the eShop recommended to me.
@Ludovsk I think you are right. Appropriate tags could help search categories. ‘Arcade’ is too general and would have 1000s of results. But ‘Arcade’ + ‘Puzzler’ could narrow the field.
People bought the game at 90% off because it was cheap and people like good deals. Not because they had been looking for this game and couldn't find it until it went on deep-discount.
Also $24.99 for a niche indie pixel art game is a hard pill for the average consumer to swallow.
E-shop is not the problem here
Discoverability is a problem on the eShop. The genre filters are terrible. You can find titles like Fortnite under STRATEGY for example. And if you don't know the exact title of a game you want, good luck searching for it!
The eShop is such that, you have to search everything online, figure out what you want, and then go to the eShop to get it.
And if you're looking for a game that's not very popular, it's likely you wont be able to find much info about it.
I think the other Problem is that many Games are between 30-50% more expansive than on other Systems.
And i do not speak of work intensive Ports like Doom or the Witcher 3
I do have some issues with the eShop, notably how F2P games that more become akin to scams are beginning to bloom like ***** weeds. However, all I could take from this specific article is a dev is upset ppl wouldn't buy his game at the same price on a different format. Made a 90% cut and still made six figure revenue? Maybe the game is being priced beyond what it is worth, esp if it has already enjoyed livelihood on Steam. Way smaller pool of people to sell to: those who haven't played it but want to, and those who already own it and don't mind buying it again for better mobility. That just isn't a very large group, I'd imagine. And again, if the cut worked, that doesn't sound like a broken system to me. It is in other ways maybe. But not in this specific case. I love browsing the eShop...my wish list is hella long. I never fail to find a new title to add to it, and many fun games I'd never have known of without the eShop.
They should have a RANDOMB tab. Also if you click on the developer/ publisher's name, you can see a list of games they own.
@Antiriad2097 @nimnio Thanks! Deku Deals looks awesome! Love the price tracking! ❤️
@TG16_IS_BAE I'm not saying that. If you want to like the games you may. But if these developers are upset that they don't sell enough, I can see why.
"The solution is simple: isolate all the bad games in a "crap" section of the eshop. That should get rid of a good 90% of the shovelwares nobody wants and clear up the eshop a bit"
That's basically what Steam does. They have a "new and trending" option and a "all releases" option. The "new and trending" list is moderated by steam. (more popular titles) Which also means that less popular titles end up with the absolute trash on the platform.
I know what I'm going to buy. Buy that game I've researched. Look at how many gold coins I have. Look at the discounted games. Find an interesting one. Look at reviews. Buy it if it doesn't suck or take up a lot of space.
But what does it matter if a game doesn't top the rankings, if it's making revenue? That's what a conpany is supposed to generate.
While I don't think the eshop is perfect by any means, I don't think it's entirely Nintendo's fault. I really love indie games but it is no secret that the indie scene is flooded with games of questionable quality and many of them blend together. I can't be the only one who rolls his eyes when he sees yet another indie game going for the good old pixel artstyle like thousand others already did. It's no surprise that these games see an increase in sales during sales.
I find this to be all crap. Just putting your game on the eShop isn't enough. How about out effort into your games and price them reasonably and we will decide for ourselves. I look at the eShop all the time. It has a filter system now and I filter it for what I want. Nuff said.
The problem is that too much stuff is getting released every week that:
One game "Refreshing Sideways Puzzle Ghost Hammer" that came out in Jan 2020 looks like a decent puzzle game, and I only know about it because Legends of Localization talked about the bad translation: https://legendsoflocalization.com/this-be-bad-translation-19-refreshing-sideways-puzzle-ghost-hammer/
I do look at the discount games, and if something looks good and is cheap, then I most likely don't mind wasting say 99p on the game (especially if the game doesn't have a demo). The worse case is the game is bad, and I just uninstall it, or I enjoy the game and have fun with it.
Of course, games having demos does help, especially if the game is at a higher price.
On the flip side, Nintendo doesn’t do great in helping us manage the library of games we do buy. Allowing tags could help us with that greatly.
I think discoverability is hampered by shovelware. I like 90% sales but I notice it is never really done with good games. 90% sales is a way of promoting games that people don't want. I don't think many people actually want 'not tonight'.
@PapaMurphy well... then you are a bit ignorent. The wish list is top right of the page on the eshop with your accounts. As soon as you go in the wishlist all the discounts come up to.... sheep joining party is all i see
It’s infinitely easier to find games on the Nintendo eshop than on other platforms.
@sanderev I’m aware of Steam. Yeah, good luck getting Nintendo to moderate content. They seem to like to do the bare minimum these days.
@robr On other platforms, I don’t experience any issues with the pages loading. Nintendo’s platform is the only one that can’t seem to load more than two rows before it starts to quake from the pressure.
@Lordplops I agree, these games seem average
People saying he shouldn't blame the eshop for sales and should just make better games are missing the point and didn't read the article.
He clearly says the dev's games sell fine on other platforms, but more importantly he outlines how manipulating the system worked. Seems pretty clear that it doesn't matter whether his game was good or not.
If the game was good, it wasn't selling until he manipulated the price. If it wasn't good, it still only sold well after manipulating the price. That's a problem. The eShop is a mess.
I don't care how a developer games the sales systems. Since there are so few demos, I'm not willing to spend much money to decide if I like a game or not.
Find myself having to Wish List everything even semi-interesting else I may not find it again when my wallet is more flush.
The switch and its eshop is just as trash as the wii and the wii shop was. 14 years and nothing learned.
Game Pass is the future of gaming, it's just that it's already here.
So many salty nintendo fanbois in here it's sad.
I think there are a lot of things important to selling on the eShop. One, if I don't know your game, you have to have a good looking title card. It's the first thing a customer sees on the eShop. You could have a great game, but if your title card looks dumb I have no reason to click on your game. No offense to this guy, but his title cards for all his games don't look great and sadly if I was scrolling through the eShop I would pass by them. I also personally am not interested in most of the games that have to use huge discounts because that means they probably suck to begin with. I've bought a few games that got good reviews and we're 90%+ off but they still sucked.
This guy again?! Has he not contradicted himself before?
How can he be selling 5 times as much on Gamepass when technically no one is buying the game? Microsoft are paying a fee so he is seeing the benefit but see how much longer that lasts as Microsoft will eventually want to turn a profit on Gamepass.
I honestly have no issues with the Switch eshop, now I am not a PC Gamer so can't compare but I own a PS4 Pro and did own a Xbox One X and the eshop runs rings around them. Half the time the Xbox store wouldn't even load and the PS Store is a mess.
Eshop is fast, has a handy search function and makes it easy to see which games are on sale, and encourages games to be put on sale which benefits us gamers.
As for user reviews, no offence to anyone but I wouldn't trust any other users review scores, games are either the best ever or worst ever, I will do my own research on a game.
Edit: I may have misunderstood his point about Gamepass but something about this Rose guy is disingenuous. He just likes moaning.
I'm of mixed feelings about the eshop. As a consumer I love it. Way less cluttered than the ps store although ms got a bit better (eshop is easier to navigate though). I just use the wish list and check the sales and new releases on occasion and I've not missed anything that I knew I wanted.
However, I do wish that some of the early successes would end up back in featured. Like Battle Chef Brigade... I can't extol the virtues of that game enough, but I feel like while it did well initially...sales likely cratered by now. Indies rarely have evergreens and part of that is they don't advertise and thus get buried.
That being said some of that I feel is on the indies as well. I know being a homemade or a small dev takes funds, but devs are getting cuts with epic and gamepass now; take some of the funds and advertise. It isn't Nintendo's responsibility to boost your game. They are just the store front. Not to mention in that store front indies are competing against big devs; I'd think they would do better, or try to fill the voids left by devs that won't put their games on switch but instead its just tons of "retro" inspired stuff, many which are retreads of existing games by the big devs (and many times those classic games or the latest entries are on sale on the eshop or on NES or SNES online).
The other thing is devs that make niche games... need to make demos. People take chances on cheap games because a .99cent game is worth a try and delete if you don't like it. Many gamers (especially those on a budget) are not going to toss 15-30 bucks in a hope that a few screenshots and usually a vaguely written summary on the eshop will convince them. I feel like indies have to put in the advertising work to get their game noticed when it is on a system with Nintendo's games and many very big 3rd party games (either retro or not). Get on youtube and do lets plays or twitter (or whatever social platform works for you), give out codes to reviewers and let them hype your game.
However, there is also the aspect of humility; many indies produce middling games...there are some gems...but many of them in the eyes of a consumer are not worth the asking price. I'm not saying sale the game for peanuts, but it may be time for a price drop to see what the market thinks your game is worth (price drop, not sale). You might have poured your soul into a game and that is commendable however, a consumer's main focus is not usually on a merit based viewpoint, it is on a subjective enjoyment viewpoint. You made that game in your basement while working 3 jobs? Great, but if it isn't fun or is too short or you are asking for a ton of money sight unseen...you will likely get passed over. We live in a time where consumers are so spoiled for choice that people are less likely to splash out on something without either a way to test it (demo), word of mouth (reviews and friends), or some evidence (let's plays, serious advertisement).
I will say I use game pass as my indie demo platform. Switch is my system of choice, so if I like a game on gamepass I will go buy it on Switch. (Pretty much only reason why I got into the ori games for instance.) So I think that is of service to indies as I may buy a game at a higher price on switch as opposed to the discount I get for gamepass just because I'd rather have it on my system of choice.
@SpaceKaren
Gamepass isn't sustainable unless every game becomes a microtransaction filled mess. That isn't a future I want a part of.
@TG16_IS_BAE
I find that curious as there has been many, many times the Xbox or PS Store hasn't loaded for me. Never had the issue on Switch.
The problem for me when buying an eshop game is i dont know what im buying.. some do not have trailers or free demos of at least one level. I always buy if one of those two are available but sadly many do not have what i would think is common practise... some its hard to even get decent screen shots
@Aerona That was my initial thought, it sounds like everyone wins. I think the bigger issue is the long term effects, like games losing value as a medium.
@TheFullAndy It is weird, probably has to do with how their networks are set up from region to region. I never have issues on Steam, PSN, but Switch loads super slow.
I pretty much won't pay full price for an eShop game at this point and often hold out for discounts more than 50% off. This is by no means because I'm cheap as my large collection of expensive PHYSICAL Switch games proves. I just don't value digital-only media because of ownership issues. I bought a lot of stuff on the Wii Shop Channel...fat lotta good that does me now.
I haven't bought Not Tonight simply because I don't want it at any price. If this publisher keeps the prices of other games high, I'll simply pass them by, even though I do WANT to play Hypnospace Outlaw. Or they could do physical releases...then I'll pay MORE than eShop full price for good stuff.
@TG16_IS_BAE
It can load slow if you have a game running ( and depends on the game, Doom 2016 would destroy it) but otherwise never had a problem.
Xbox One X on the other hand often the Store would not load at all for me and considering it was a major part of the UI front face it did not look good. Plus it was a cluttered mess same as PS Store.
But clutter happens when there are thousands of games on all the stores and eshop equally guilty.
@TheFullAndy Yes, it’s strange to say that there are way too many games on there, but there definitely are!
@TG16_IS_BAE
It seems to me that a few game devs like to complain, especially this Rose guy, but does he ever band together with other devs and approach Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft and offer ideas on how to improve things?
@TheFullAndy I’m not sure how open some of those corporations even are.
@TG16_IS_BAE
That is a point, but you would imagine it is worth a try if one was a game developer.
This Rose guy complains about everything though so I find it hard to sympathise, especially when his games have had success on Switch compared to other systems with some games.
I'm not naive enough to think that good games equal sales. We live in an era where there are so many good games that it's hard to stand out. But the developer is responsible for marketing to maximize sales. It's not Nintendo's job to sell the game for you. If you think the game is good then spend money to get it out there so people know about it. I pretty much only buy indie games if they are on a huge sale or if its a game like Hades that has multiple glowing reviews and got a perfect score here. I just dont have enough time to play all the good games out there.
@gaga64 The difference here is that Disney makes relatively quality content and the eShop "top chart" features Woolley Mountain.
@NoMoreRobots I'm a huge fan of your studio's stuff. Not Tonight is a fantastic take on games as social commentary (like Papers Please was, incidentally!) Hypnospace Outlaw feels like the best part of GTA4 (the virtual internet) expanded into a full game, something I've ALWAYS dreamed of.
You don't need me to tell you this, but pay no mind to the people who think they could do your job better than you, yet spend their time arguing in comment sections rather than being productive.
I am a bit ashamed to admit that my spending on handheld or mobile is quite different than my spending on PC or console. I do tend to wait for deeper discounts on mobile than the others. For the indie titles I really like, my purchases on switch are often double-dips I've already purchased on pc or console that are much easier to justify at a lower price point.
Towerfall, for instance - I purchased on PCat full price, on PS4 at a minor discount so I could more readily play local multiplayer, and again on switch at an above 50% discount to be able to play it on the go or even more readily local multiplayer. While it is true that I wouldn't have bought it at a 40% discount, I don't feel that the price difference devalued the game for me - it's one of my favorites of all time - its just hard to justify a second or third purchase if it isn't in the 1-15 dollar impulse buy range.
@TG16_IS_BAE
So true. Limited and slow ram and a wifi board that moves less bits per minute than a modem from the 1980’s.
Just throwing my two cents in.....I don’t find it hard to believe that some of cats are seeing very nice earnings from Gamepass. It completely makes sense, tbh.
@cleveland124 "It's not Nintendo's job to sell the game for you." Yes it is! They take 30% of the money so it's reasonable to expect more from them than just throwing the game on the eShop and then forgetting about it.
It's true that you can't rely on Nintendo alone but they could do a much better job of promoting actually good games and filtering out the garbage.
@KnightsTemplar yeah I know that. Where did I give the impression that I didn't know that? I did mention I'm new to this. What's the problem with that? Your comment makes no sense. Just incoherent waffling. Cheers anyway.
@Chlocean true true
@Zadaris hahaha yeah I do that. I need a wish list clear out. I have a much better idea now of what I seriously might buy.
interesting article and tweets. Well, i could agree that the eShop is not suitable as a stand-alone retailer of games and lacks functions like Mike mentions such as discoverabilty. On the other hand, he overlooks that that is not how marketing works. the eShop is the POS for nintendo users, but there are other touch points that make a consumer be interested and ultimately make a purchase decision for a product. For video games these touch points are gone through mostly online, through critics, reviews by websites or youtubers. If a game gets good reviews, people will look up the game in the eShop. (it works with every other product the same way. the retailer eg. super market doesnt need to advertise your product, they place it in the shelf. if you want a promotion in the store, you as a company have to do the marketing effort). So yeah, i dont really understand his complain. if games are outstanding they will be recognized by critics and reviewers. if that is not sufficient, they can boost their marketing with other campaigns. he openly admits to manipulate metacritic scores, which he didnt have to if the game received good scores in the first place. It sounds a bit like he is complaining that trash is sold on the eshop by discounts and the only way to make sales is also giving out deep discounts. Doesnt it mean that their games are comparably bad? I would suggest Mike to evaluate his marketing efforts, rather than critizing gamers for buying discounted games. Deep discounts work because it tricks people into thinking they are making a great deal. In the end a lot of gamers will just buy games for the off-chance that the game was worth it and pile it up in their backlog (btw asking for $25 for a mediocre indie game that i never heard about sounds like a stretch from reality for me)
@countzero
It's a 30% licensing fee, not a 30% marketing fee. The terms are spelled out in the contract and they generally include access to Nintendo systems, servers, and server maintenance. A steep fee for sure but consistent with the competition. If a company doesn't think Nintendo does enough they can always skip releasing on the Switch.
Having a simple review system in place and the ability to sort by highest ranked would go a long way. Instead of having to scroll through 600+ games in the sales tab you can just stick to the top 50-100 and all the shovelware would be pushed out.
Nintendo often focuses too much on things that hardly matter. The eShop needs priority and they know it. They just don't care because THEIR games don't suffer from sales.
@Lordplops of course you have to make a good game, but it's not enough just to make a good game, if nobody can find it.
@Yodalovesu You're missing the point. This issue would still exist even if the game was only sold for $5 - 10. Eshop is absolutely an issue at the moment, stop defending it so much.
@Lordplops I think the entire point of his post is having a good game isn't enough, you need marketing, or new distribution models ala Game Pass.
Even the psp PlayStation store was better than the switch eshop😂😂😂 got the hint yet nintendo?😂😂😂 improve the online store😆😆😆.
@Lordplops Actually, the entire point of the article and the Twitter thread is: no, making a good is not the key thing. It's not even a very important thing. See the part where he talks about Metacritic score not being nearly as important as deep discounts, and all the references to crappy games navigating to the top of the charts.
The sad thing is, there are many ways that Nintendo could fix this problem. They choose not to.
If only the Switch's eshop had better curation like its Wii cousin, finding the gems through the muck wouldn't be nearly as cumbersome as it is now.
Nintendo unfortunately has become far to comfortable and complacent to do anything about it now, unlike back in the day when they were struggling and actually had to put in effort to their interface and game design; not to mention they gave more attention to their more niche franchises like Metroid, F-Zero and Starfox.
@Lordplops - More than that, though. You gotta get it out there to the right people that will talk about it.
I experienced this twice and watched entire GOOD projects die.
Wow, the pic in the article header is the only time I've seen Pocket Rumble go on sale.
Best sellers should go based on revenue and not units.
@Lordplops -or you're being stupidly simplistic and not seeing the whole picture.
The eshop deluge of shovelware, limited filtering plus insane lag has finally seen me say good buy to anything but monitoring of new releases. Are Nintendo even aware of these issues? I don’t see any articles on this, ever.
I feel this doesn't apply to me at all.
I base my purchases on youtube let's players. I watch 1 or 2 episodes and decide if I want to play it myself or if it isn't for me.
Secondly I wait for a sale. My backlog is crazy and if I can save 5 bucks I will.
Thirdly I SOMETIMES go by publisher in the eshop. For example I loved Oxenfree. I saw they also made a game called Afterparty when I clicked their tab. So I bought it. Same with Spiritfarer and Jotun. But these "chance purchases" are rare and far between. I usually youtube a game before I buy.
I never check demos, Metacritic and top sellers charts tab.
If you are not covered on SwitchWatch, SwitchCorner, 8 bit Eric, SwitchUp, RGT 85, Spawnwave, Stumpt, 4 hit Combo etc etc I probably will never hear about your game unless you become a indie top seller on Steam.
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