Spiritual Successor To "Underrated And Misunderstood" Zelda II Could Be Switch-Bound

Can it be called a spiritual successor if no-one from the original game is working on it?

@Buizel You're confused about how a spiritual successor works.

If you really want to get the Zelda II feels, get Aggelos! It is phenomenal!

I feel like this would have benefited from being released about 25 years ago.

The more successful modern "retro" games feel and look a ton smoother than the games that inspired them. The obvious examples being the likes of Shovel Knight and Celeste. Gameplay evolves and what I'm seeing from the video is a game with more modern visuals and outdated repetitive gameplay tropes from that NES era.

This looks cheap and mobile phoneish. Couldn't we just get a remake of Zelda 2? That game could seriously use more love and with the right modern updates and overhauls it could be something more zelda fans would enjoy.

Zelda II is my personal favorite of the series, though botw takes a close second place. I never understood the hate that z2 got. It was phenomenally more fun to play, with a bigger world and tighter combat than the first.

Edit: no matter this game looking janky, it intrigues me enough to give it a go when it releases.

I was always a huge fan of Zelda 2. It was really hard at times but still lots of fun to play. I would love to see Nintendo give it the Links awakening treatment. I would say the same for the first one but we kinda sorta got that with breath of the wild in a way. But this looks kinda cool. Hope it hits its goal.

Probably my fave Zelda too (get it?)
Zelda 3 is close though... depends on my mood I guess.

@Coach_A agreed, the linear movement would drive me crazy after a while I think. The visuals make me want to know what’s over the hill but I can’t move where I want to look...

@Zeldafan79 - "Couldn't we just get a remake of Zelda 2?" Ask Nintendo.

I like the idea of attempting to improve on the experience of an old NES game via a new IP; unfortunately it seems to suffer from the same problems the recent Prince of Persia remake had when that was announced: it's better looking than the source material, but not enough to avoid looking terrible compared to games today.
Personally. I don't mind as much, as this is an indie game, probably with next to no budget at the moment, but it is something that will probably lead to a few people avoiding the game, which is a shame as this could potentially end up being somewhat decent.

Finished Z2 before the original... Was solid but did feel meh at times. Both streets ahead of botw tho, too empty and felt lifeless

It's an interesting idea, but the graphics and animations look very cheap, and the game as a whole seems to be rather basic at the moment. I'll keep an eye on it for the moment though

Elliot Quest was for me the closest thing to a Zelda II successor, and that's already on Switch. It was frustratingly difficult too.

@Willsy
Being contrarian and reiterating commonly referenced criticism about a popular game isn't a personality

@Coach_A actual opinion my dude, purely subjective. Was a kid when I played the originals. PC is my main system. Zelda skinned or not, there's far better "open world" games than botw. It's not bad by any means but middle of the pack for zelda games

@Willsy You don't like BoTW? Great for you, but please post your opinion in a BoTW related article.

Lack of Physical option is a down turner for me.

@impurekind I dunno, I thought a spiritual successor would have some of the original team who don't want to or can't work on the original IP anymore for whatever reason, but still want to make games like that.

I thought something that involves none of the original team would just be called a clone, knock off or copy, otherwise so many games would just be spiritual successors.

@impurekind @Tao this was my impression too. The most commonly talked about spiritual successors are made by people who worked on the originals, e.g. Yooka-Laylee, Mighty No 9, Bloodstained.

Perhaps there is a broader definition to include games that are heavily inspired by another game. But I feel by calling it a "spiritual successor" you're probably leaning a bit too much on the original work.

@71nk0 neg, related article, middling opinion for Z2 when for it's time, it was well ahead of games in its genre... Unlike botw now which has glowing views but is actually middling in the genre... Ironic

@steveputer The game is really cool, but more like Wonder Boy II and ahead, IMO.

@steveputer thanks for pointing, looks interesting.

Zelda 2 is probably one of the worst Zelda games. But, as an NES era sidescolling action game? Its actually pretty fantastic. The music is so unique and immediately gives me all the feels within the first few notes of starting up. Loved the leveling system, and magic abilities. Great game all around.

I feel similarly about Breath of the Wild. Such an amazing game, and really helped raise the bar for Nintendo, and modern gaming as a whole. Might actually be my favorite game of all time. But as a Zelda game? I get zero nostalgia vibes. I wouldn't go as far as @Willsy and call it "empty" but I get where he's coming from, as it is at the bottom of my list of favorite Zelda games, right there with Adventures of Link.

@Zeldafan79 We did get a remake. They called it Skyward Sword.

@steveputer That is more of a Wonderboy style game but ya they are all inspired by each other anyway. It is a really good game though and I hope they make a sequel.

I'll probably get it if they release it but I'm not going to fund their kickstarter.

Ah yes I specifically remember the amazing feature of bland faces.

@steveputer Or Adventure Time: Hey Ice King Why Did You Steal Our Garbage? on (3)DS. It's... Well, Zelda 2 in the Adventure Time universe more or less.

I love the gameplay in Zelda II. What I don’t like is all the hidden stuff and cryptic hints (without some sort of guide you’ll never find the hidden village, for instance) and the fact that you have to start over from Zelda’s castle everytime you die.

Translation - No ideas of their own, so they’ll just use someone else’s ip to bolster their Kickstarter numbers.

I making a 2d platformer, maybe I should call it a spiritual successor to Mario to get more sales?

I'm a huge fan of Adventure of Link, and this looks right up my alley. However, the jumping looks so awkward. If they don't fix that, I can't see myself playing this.

@Buizel The term spiritual successor is not new or unique to video games and while it does often attach someone from the original team — sometimes the same studio with a different team — it does not have to.

The key idea is that there is something barring a direct successor — in this case, Zelda took a hard turn away from many of the gameplay elements in Zelda 2, so there is maybe an opening.

That said, many games have fallen into that space over time, I think so it's a bit of a stretch. It is capitalizing on a popular term and trend and in the mind of these creators it seems like many gameplay elements really are very directly similar with a modern graphic elements (and amateur sound design).

@Clammy I mean... good or bad, this does seem to hew pretty close to the core of Zelda 2 gameplay. It's more than lip service, like your suggestion.

I also don't see the harm in attracting people that are fans of that gameplay. I mean, name a game that is not derivative of another? We have to categorize them somehow and find other games similar to what we like.

Once I learned how to jump kill enemies and had the SP version on Switch, Zelda 2 quickly became my favorite even though it was already one of my favorites. The soundtrack is top notch NES bliss.

Doesn't look good. Nice marketing idea though

@aznable Zelda 2 is a top 4 Zelda game for me (Link's Adventure, BotW, Ocarina 64, Link's Awakening GB) but I understand SOME of the hate it gets. For example, using a "hammer" to "cut" down a "tree" in a nondescript part of forest being imperative to finishing the game or crouching by a table in an empty room to find a mirror.

@Tao Sometimes it is, but not always. Sometimes a spiritual successor is also a love letter to the original. Like how The Messenger is to Ninja Gaiden.

Anywho, I've heard of this, but I'm not super interested. I think will wait for reviews before I decide, since I love the original and its "sibling games" just the way they are. The gameplay looks nicer then what I was initially expecting, but he seems like he handles kinda awkwardly. And its doing the living diorama overworld way nicer then Link's Remakening. The music is nice. I wish them good luck and good sales.

The way is plays does reminds me of Zelda 2. Wouldn't mind the game to be like this if it was a remake.

@Damo erm, people still have a soft post for it do they? 😂

@Buizel calling a game "spiritual successor" us a stupid claim to get some free advertising (as you can see on this article) and get as much money via crowdfunding before the usual backlash because it never lives up to expectations.

But true, usually it includes guys who worked on the original series. And a spiritual successor of an ongoing series from people who have nothing to do with the original is a huge joke.

My friend, we already got a spiritual successor to Zelda II a few years back and it's fantastic. I'm talking of course about Adventure Time: Get Ice King Why'd You Steal Our Garbage? Seriously, if you haven't, give the game a go, best realization of the Zelda II formula yet if you ask me.

Vinny Vinesauce has entered the Chat

@aaronsullivan : saying it’s “like a game”, or “borrowing elements of” is one thing.. this is like call of duty saying it’s an spiritual successor to Halo to sell more copies (okay, not really that extreme.. but still)

Zelda 2 is a great game with tight controls and magical music. It takes some tries to get the hammer, but when you have it you are good to go - the world opens up and the rest is pretty easy. I highly recommend it.

The Zelda II formula is often not credited in helping the push for the Metroidvania genre, despite being released about a year after Metroid and Castlevania's respective debuts and taken some elements from both of those games.

That being said, I would probably take any Metroidvania over this game. The Zelda II formula, while unique in some ways, has a difficulty curve that I just can't play.

@duffmmann Pass. I'm sure it's fun, but I can't stand that cartoon

it shouldnt be allowed to make a game inspired by another and have it advertised on gaming blogs as a "spiritual successor" but maybe that's just me?

this is the successor? so Phoenotopia gets shafted? Phoenotopia is what zelda 2 wishes it could do back then. Such a great game.

Zelda II was the first Zelda game I played while I was old enough to under it(had 1 but was too young to understand it). Afterwards I thought the traditional top down zeldas were kind of boring. I still played them all though.

Love Zelda II and 'spiritual successor' of it will always get my attention, bought Phoenotopia at launch. This looks like it has potential, assuming it's got a ways to go in development. If this is close to what the finished game would be, less interested.

@Tempestryke That's too bad, once you get invested, you find it's one of the most brilliant cartoons created, no joke, it's like a brilliant mix of The Legend of Zelda games with Scott Pilgrim kind of zaniness and video game-like logic. It hits all the right notes, can be incredibly moving, and the humor can truly be great, though admittedly hard to first acquaint yourself with. Regardless of what you think of the cartoon though, no matter what, you really should play the game if you're looking for the absolute best Zelda II kind of experience. You don't need to like or appreciate the show at all to recognize what a great realization of that formula that game is.

I've seen other KS that was able to make a physical option. They should consider that even if paying KS cost more. I think the people would consider it more.

@Buizel Hi. I'm the developer of the game. I wanted to address some of the concerns people had here - and since this post is at the top, I figured this might be the best place to respond so it is seen!

The big reason I consider this a spiritual successor to Zelda 2 is because there's a top down overworld and side scrolling combat/town areas. I really liked that about Zelda 2, and it's something you rarely see anymore. Most Metroidvanias are side scrolling only, and I feel like it hampers exploration.

In regards to animation - right now I have to keyframe everything. One of the goals of the kickstarter is to be able to motion capture everything. I'm not an animator, so keyframing is very time consuming - and I absolutely agree that it looks stiff. With motion capture hardware/software I can easily animate very lifelike animations without spending nearly as much time.

I have actually come to really dislike the kickstarter video. I think the "first 5 minutes" video is a better representation of the game. It's one of those things that, when you first look at it, you like it, but the more you see it, the more you see the issues. A lot of it comes from the animations - and some of them look awkward. Such as jumping on the platforms in the dungeon. It almost looks like you're spring-loaded, because I jumped as soon as I hit the platform. It gives you a lot of control over the jumping, but it looks odd in a video.

I plan on releasing more videos during the kickstarter, and hopefully I can slowly but surely correct the issues people are inquiring about.

Someone also mentioned their disappointment of not being able to explore the background of side scrolling areas. That's understandable, but the overworld is where the majority of exploration will happen. The map is huge - so much so that I recently added an airship you can acquire to explore easier.

Also, many areas are mazes. Dungeons can be huge, and there's also caves and other non-linear side-scrolling areas as well.

The idea has potential, but it's just so painful to look at. It's not just the animations. The visual style in general is just so hideous.

@Tempestryke For what it's worth, I don't like Adventure Time either, but I gave the DS game a shot because I like WayForward and it's excellent in spite of being related to Adventure Time.

Looks promising. Best of luck to the developers.

Those eyes....those meme-base looking eyes.......

..now watch the video again, but this time turn off the audio and forget about the shameless attempt at hijacking of the excellent Zelda games name. The effortless riding on one of the best franchise names in gaming history. What is left is just some generic-looking bland mess.

Why is it not even being sued by the aggressive Nintendo company? Because it is not even close to a Zelda game.. So why treat it as if it was..?

I want this game

I'd beware of this one guys, for the reasons listed here: https://www.purezc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=76419

Misunderstood?
I'm pretty sure plenty of people understood how bogus Zelda 2 can be at times.
The core gameplay idea is great, but its dreadful combat system and it's wonky balancing kept it from being as well remembered as other entries in the series.

Much like Castlevania 2 actually. Some minor tweeks, a few script touch ups and you have a fun, early explorationvania.
But in its vanilla state it's just too much of a chore to be actually enjoyable casually.

This actually does look pretty good. Definitely has potential. Be curious to check out the final product when done.

Never heard of this before, but wow the artwork is beautiful.

@Willsy,

Of course they are both streets ahead of BOTW.

Of course this is only your own personal opinion, but I think BOTW was a shot in the arm the series needed.

Of course it's my opinion, I'm not ripping it. What it does it does wellish. Open world it's not, large relatively non-interactive map yes but play it through and do any of your actions matter? Nope. What are you actually doing? Running around an empty environment... Been plenty of games that have done it, it's nothing special. Was it fun? Yeah, I played it through, was a slug though

The art direction is hideous.

The issue I had with Zelda 2 back in the day with the inherent difficultly level, rather than any deviation from the formula

Zelda 2 was "okay", but Faxanadu did it so much better in my opinion. If anything deserves another go it is definitely Faxanadu.

@ZeroInfinite
I have always liked Zelda II's gameplay and thought it deserved a second chance. This aspect of the project is interesting.

But this post brings up some worrying points about the game's overambition, unrealistic goals, and the dev team's suspicious actions. It would be nice if we could get an answer to this.
https://www.purezc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=76419&p=1057666

@gamekill Because its very much its own thing, its not a rom hack, or a Zelda fanmade game. And by that logic, every single company past and present, would have to be sued into the ground for copying from and imitating other games. Its the reason why entire genres have sprung up over the last 40+ years that gaming has been around. Use your head.

@Dang69 It's the Simon's Quest of Zelda games.

If no one says "I am error", it's not a successor

These comments are a bit weird, some people are super defensive about one person's opinion about breath of the wild for some reason and others are salty about this game being described as a spiritual successor to a specific Zelda game. Although it would probably be better being referred to what was used for the messenger compared to ninja gaiden.

@ZeroInfinite So you misrepresented your Kickstarter. That's not good. You present your Kickstarter as if you're securing funds to develop the game, not to get testers. I'm pretty sure this is also in breach of Kickstarter's TOS.

Proof that you can ship games gives some confidence, but it's still very concerning you don't have (or haven't shared) a development timeline and budget allocation. If you two are just hobbyists working in your spare time and aren't planning on outsourcing anything then you don't really need a Kickstarter.

@NoeL85
I didn't say funds weren't needed to get the game out. Without a Kickstarter this game does not make it to early access in January. This is the absolute minimum cost to develop this title for 2 1/2 more months. Without it, the game doesn't exist.

The reason I mentioned pre-orders is because of how important it is for testing purposes.

@aznable my only problem is that it's hard with no guide.

@PickledKong64 How? Zelda 2 was the first linear Zelda.

I love the jank present in this game, looks very special. Really digging the extremely photo-realistic graphics, with the N64 style characters. Jarring in a good way. Can't wait to try this one!

@Tempestryke Zelda 2 is far from linear!

@impurekind Your the one confused. That is a logical fallacy when one has no more points to make "You don't know what XXX means". if you can't have anything to say don't say anything at all!
Basically your trying to shut down the conversation just like the overused "You don't know what socialism means' as the staple to "I don't like what you have to say which your points make me feel 'TRIGGERED!' WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"

@Buizel Your right about that one. You need to have some sense of the original team to have it work as a 'spiritual successor' or otherwise it's just a new game. Nothing wrong with that but let's not lie about it now!

The Logical Journey of the Zoombinis are a great example!

If you ever played or touch the Zoombini's Logical Journey or "Math Adventures" which was it's first title in the 1.0 version, the one with the red cover of the pizza troll, you'll see what I mean when you look at the game play between the 1st one and 2nd one called 'Mountain Rescue Adventure' which is almost NOTHING like the original and we are cheated a few puzzles.

The third and final one REALLY deviates from the formula for better or worse where none of the puzzles rely on the looks of the Zoombinis for the first time relying on internal mechanisms.

@FargusPelagius I love Faxanadu. I'd be thrilled if it came on the eshop..

@TG16_IS_BAE It has some easy sequence breaks, but it is gated here and there. Like with the boulders, jump spell, raft and flute. Its big, so it doesn't feel like it, and its not as linear as modern Zeldas.

C'mon nintendo do a remake like link's awakening. And while your at it give the original an update too.

For those people who took offence in the fact they call it a spiritual successor to Zelda II, my 7-year-old saw me watch footage of this game, and his instant reaction was "Hey that looks like Zelda II", so... like it or not, they nailed the feel of Zelda II.

@Olddantrucker Well you clearly don't know what a spiritual successor is.

@Tempestryke you and me both, I still boot up the Wii U in Wii mode to play the virtual console version.

I loved Zelda 2. It's why I bought a Game Genie... but I still loved it

@Tempestryke you've never played it before

@PickledKong64 Really? That's strange. I must have imagined playing it on the NES as a child. And buying it for the GBA. And buying an NES Classic. I've played it a ton over the years.

You're also a contentious little troll, so on the block list you go. Buh-bye.

It really needs more work, but it looks promising!