In this series of end-of-year features, we're summing up some of 2019's biggest talking points.
2019 was a big year for Pokémon fans, with the arrival of Gen 8 in the form of Sword & Shield. However, for many players, the game was something of an anticlimax; for the first time in the franchise's history, a mainline Pokémon title launched with an incomplete Pokédex, something which caused quite a bit of discomfort for vocal portions of the fanbase. This led to many fans boycotting the game and review-bombing it on sites like Metacritic.
The great 'Dexit' debate threatened to completely overshadow the release of Pokémon: Sword & Shield, but robust sales have proven that even when you've lost the support of the most rabid fans of the series, you can still achieve commercial success.
While the performance of the game will have pleased Nintendo's executives, the team at Game Freak will have been left slightly dazed by the whole experience, and it will be interesting to see how the studio reacts with its next Pokémon release. Will it bow to player pressure and fix the issues highlighted by dedicated players, or will it look at the sales figures and decide that what's not broke doesn't require fixing?
What did you make of Dexit? Do you think it will influence future Pokémon games? Let us know with a comment.
I don't care about not having all Pokémon. I always quit playing after I beat the champion anyways.
dexit is the biggest non-scandal in all gaming
I have experienced with Dexit from Monster Rancher 4 PS2 by TECMO.
I couldn't use Gali / Monol anymore since TECMO have removed some of old monsters and replaced with new monsters from Monster Rancher 3.
But i have learnt to accept the differences and getting along well with new monsters.
Dexit is not the end of the world after all....
Some people seriously like to think that they know how game development when it's clearly obvious that they have no idea what they're talking about
What I really want is a way to play the old games, as I missed entire generations after Platinum as life got in the way. From Platinum and HeartGold, I only had FireRed and Emerald, and then nothing. Would have loved to experience what I missed, especially, UltraSun and other games, but am too spoiled by Sword now, especially no more random encounters in the grass.
I bought Pokémon Shield and sold it right after beating the game. It was such a disappointment that I Lost interest in the post game and the online battles. I would say that I expect the franchise to evolve, but I actually doubt It and I'm convinced Pokémon is not for me anymore.
The fans are the problem here. As long as we keep giving them money for mediocrity, they will continue to give us mediocre products.
Ps.: I really don't care much about the dexit. What let me down was the bad writing, the unbearable linearity of the game, the awful graphics and the fact that the game hasn't changed a bit from 3DS to Switch.
As much as I hate the games and aren't afraid to make it known, I've never really been on the whole 'Dexit' bandwagon. Cutting the Pokedex was a pretty poor and unnecessary choice but I feel like it's pretty low on the list of issues with the games so it does bug me a bit that it seems to have overshadowed everything else. It's gonna take a lot more than a full Pokedex to get the series back on track.
Admittedly I was pretty pro-dexit and still am, but I played Shield because I'm happy to have my mind changed and I want to support the Pokemon company despite making what I believe to be a bad choice. Unfortunately I did not like Sword/Shield very much and found playing UltraMoon right after a much, MUCH more enjoyable experience.
Playing SwSh made me realize I will be happy to skip in the future and I should have here. I don't think anyone should have been worried about sales for SwSh, but it's the game AFTER this that will be impacted most. I will be keeping a very, very close eye on mechanics and Pokemon coming into future games and will happily stop paying for anything less.
I think the word that best describes pokemon sword and shield is rushed ! I enjoyed sword but it’s carelessness shows !!!!
It did derail it. Pokémon came and went. It did well in sales, but there was no big holiday excitement surrounding it.
I was irritated by some of the Pokémon that they cut like Slowpoke and by how bad the game looked, especially with the Pokémon animations. Scorbunny's headbutt is a kick animation. How do you screw that up? It's disappointing but Game Freak isn't going to improve so long as the games are still selling like they are. What I worry about is irreparable damage being done to the franchise if they keep continuing to turn in the bare minimum effort. I'd like to see two teams working on Pokemon. That way Game Freak isn't overworked and rushed and they have some friendly competition to encourage them to keep improving.
@Elithal Same here. I mostly bought Sword out of habit, but I'm fully ready to skip a game for the first time next time if there aren't significant improvements.
Not sure what the hate is all about. I haven’t cared about Pokémon since Gold/Silver and this is one of the best games I’ve ever played. Loved Shield. The ones freaking out over “Dexit”, complaining about graphics and the questionable objections to the story were quickly made irrelevant by the sales numbers and continued popularity of the games as we head further and further away from November 15th.
It's not all about the Dexit. There is some valid criticism about the game. Animations, lack of content and lack of difficulty to name a few. I find it a bit ignorant that you thinks people are hating on this game just because of Dexit.
Anyway I enjoyed the game but yes, it has problems.
Dexit is the least of Pokemon's problems though it is still a significant one.
Sales doesn't mean quality. Otherwise Call of Duty and Minecraft are the best games ever made.
Dexit isn't an issue for me but what I did find disappointing is there is nothing to do after finishing the game and the extra chapter. In leaf green and fire red you could pretty much battle every one again with the Vs seeker. With this game near 15 years later you can re battle like ten people which is very poor
It may of sucked that they got rid of tons of Pokemon, but I can think of many reasons why they got did of so many Pokemon. From Game Freak not wanting to power creep or overwhelm us, to Game Freak being required by Nintendo to keep as low of a storage space as possible. There's just too many possible factors to why they cut a lot of the dex. But in terms of hype, I think there's so many casual fans of Pokemon, that there will still be hype no matter what for the Pokemon games
The series has never been immune to criticism, but I don’t remember a point in time where it has been this large and public. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
Even though some people haven’t handled it the best, this does provide Pokémon with a real opportunity to listen and grow going forward. For that reason, I’m somewhat okay with all of this; no game series is infallible and the potential for an even better Pokémon experience has been paved.
@ItalianBaptist Since USUM people have been more open to critism towards Pokemon. It helped that they made a mainline Pokemon game every year since S&M and, except S&M, all had controversies.
Maybe they could actually listen to some of the more vocal and constant complaints like difficulty, post game content or graphical quality and animations... or they could hide behind sales numbers and assume everyone that complained is just a "toxic fan".
I think the best thing about video games are how sales numbers increase the quality of their graphics and polish the bigger they are and instantly prove people wrong about how the game is mediocre and hasn't improved.
....what's that? It doesn't!? Well call me a useful magikarp in a snowfield, I was sure I proved those haterz how dumb they were for having standards.
The short answer is no - Sword and Shield was one of the franchise's bestselling launches, which will ensure that Masuda and the higher-ups at GameFreak and The Pokemon Company will institute absolutely no changes to their development cycle or upcoming games. Why change their business strategy when it's making them rich?
Let's be thankful they got rid of Landorus. I hope they erase the genies out of existence.
400 ingame Pokemon is more than enough for me, I've never cared about transferring Pokemon between games anyway. My problem with Sw/Sh with the near complete elimination of exploration, there are literally no dungeons or optional areas and all the routes are short and extremely linear with even the number of enemy trainers taking a massive hit. Forced exp.share was also really dumb when so far you've always been allowed to remove that.
The game was still fun and mechanically and aesthetically (moreso regarding how expressive everything is) it was an improvement from the 3DS titles but at the same I just can't help but feel that they could do so much better.
To be fair Minecraft is excellent and apparently this years COD is very good.
@KatBear Dismissing critism... Of course...
I doubt it will make much difference. A lot of their audience is children and as with almost anything else those screaming the most Online will be vastly outnumbered by Mass Market Consumers.
@electrolite77 So the franchise won't improve and they will continue ignoring fans. Wow... Exciting.
@jowe_gw Difficulty is one of the biggest ones for me, honestly. Everyone always gives the excuse that it's a game for children but there's no reason it can't be a game for everyone. Just add difficulty settings like basically every other developer does. It ain't that hard.
The Switch already being an RPG machine during Pokémon Sword and Shield’s arrival, it made me realize how limited SwSh really is—with or without the Dexit situation. Having played games like Dragon Quest XI, Ni No Kuni, Fire Emblem: Three Houses, and the like this year, it is without question that SwSh, by comparison, lacks ambition and imagination.
I almost didn't get the game due to all of the negative criticisms, but I caved in one day an bought the game. Oh man, I am so glad that i did, the best pokemon game experience i've had since some of the originals and I've played most of them. The game mechanics make it much easier to catch pokemon and build a dream team. I think they did well in combining certain GO mechanics to the original formula. Loving the game.
@BenAV The fact that they never even try to put difficulty settings is baffling to me. Not only that but they even remove options that some fans really liked and used to make the games more challenging (the EXPShare) for no reason at all.
That kinda proves that they don't care about all fans equally (unlike what Masuda said) because they removed an option that was really easy to program (just a simple toggle) because "the majority of fans" (aka kids) apperantly didn't use it.
@Light Good for you man. I tried it out and it was enjoyable until I saw that it was just like any other Pokemon game but with less content. The only thing that I ended up enjoying was the wild area. Too bad it was unpolished and only ended up being a tacked on area on top of a extremly easy and linear game.
I really enjoyed building a varied team and such but when a game is so easy and the online to compete with other people is so terrible I ended up asking why am I putting that much effort on building a team if I can't even use it?
I never once cared about filling out the National Pokédex. It would have been impossible for me. I would have needed to get all the games, preferably copies that have the event-exclusive Pokémon (like Mew or Rayquayza), and then get more of those copies to get the different starter Pokémon and the traveling legendaries that are dependent on which starter you chose.
Dexit hasn't bothered me as much, as I've never transferred my Pokemon over between games (don't see Pokemon Bank's price as being worth that) and build my team out of the new Pokemon I like. But while I am liking Sword so far, I can already tell it'll probably only end up better than Y in my personal ranking of the Pokemon games I've played.
@jowe_gw The Wild Area is the best thing about SwSh. (It does get repetitive after a while, though.) But you’re right, they do need to fix the online situation. For example, it’s so frustrating when you want to join a raid but that particular raid is no longer available. And then after you get that “no longer available” notice, the list doesn’t even refresh automatically. It’s a mess.
Pretty much. The reality of most big franchises is the really vocal fans who think they know best and make the most noise Online are a very small minority of the potential user base.
I just hope they go forward with building a better world and plot. Spend more time on the game, please! I never cared about Dexit there are so many other problems that are above that one.
I'll admit that the campaign was not difficult at all and could have had more depth. However, pokemon has always been about the post game for me. Building up teams, developing battling strategies and playing against others. This game genuinely makes it easier to breed for good IVs, and EV train pokemon without as much of the "grinding" that you had to do back in the day, obtaining items, etc. This is why i like it a lot.
Dexit killed my initial hype, but I accepted it and regained some excitement, untill the leaks destroyed what was there completely. I also feared Dynamaxing would be just as broken as Megas before for competitive, and I was right, considering Smogon's stance on it. The amount of Pokemon cut feels too steep, especially with how unpolished and barebones the games are. There's not really anything that really justifies all this, and if one thinks about it, the QoL changes for natures and breeding were practically done just so the Gigantimaxing Pokemon can become viable with breeding mechanics and Nature mints. Emphasis on a one Gen gimmick guaranteed to be gone in the next. On top of the lying and the fact the games crash randomly for people- Oh yeah, WHAT CAN WE DO IN POKEMON HOME BESIDES TRANSFERRING AND TRADING?! Anyone able to answer that in detail? I want to support Pokemon, but I won't support Game Freak anymore. I'm going to Digimon and Temtem.
Thank God for pokejobs. I can leave pokemon EV training and EXP leveling while I sleep and am at work! lol this is nice.
@Elithal as is it's still selling well after being out for over a month lol0
Is Dexit not actually a problem (which is not up to the non-complainers to determine), or do the non-complainers NEED it to NOT be a problem for their already-stigmatized fan-following? Because I hear far more emotional appeals about "devs' unknowable decision-making" (sounds like U.S. Congress) than rational arguments as to why 'this swath of Pokémon' should be removed.
@Aeleron0X That goes both ways, like Gamefreak not just out-and-out saying "We don't want to put all of the Pokémon in because we don't know exactly how Dynamax will affect balancing."
On one hand, Pokemon is a massive enough franchise, like Star Wars, that it'll do well regardless of what reviews or fan feedback are like.
On the other hand, the "normalization" of it happened because enough fans played the classic games and continued supporting the franchise in its various manifestations while also sharing it with their children and loved ones. Angering or disappointing your fanbase over and over might not matter in the short term, but over long periods of time it'll lead to irreversible damage to the brand.
TPC/GF/Nintendo don't necessarily need to give in to social media anger, but they do need to evaluate whether the current strategy that's being employed with the core Pokemon games is going to lead in the long run.
Nintendo Life gave S/M and US/UM 10/10. Sword and Shield received an 8/10. That's pretty telling in my opinion. I played Sw/Sh on loan from the library and I have to say, it feels rushed. Enjoyable? Sure, for the 20 hours it took me to complete it. Worth +$20 over previous entries? Not a chance. Especially since they slashed the post game. Glad I didn't pay for it.
@KingBowser86 Except that's not how it works though. Game Freak wasn't able to add all Pokémon because transferring models from one hardware generation to another is really difficult. Also, Dynamax was added as a cost and time saving measure since modelling and animating new giga evolutions would take up a long time. If you want more details, then read this
@Aeleron0X If it wasn't a yearly franchise, maybe they would have had the time to dedicate to actually making a better game. Also, if they hadn't been stagnating their skills for so many years, maybe they'd have had the chops to do better. They were excited about full camera control. In 2019. That tells me everything I need to know about their current skills.
How many times do we have to say that them cutting half the roster is NOT what got people upset? It was them cutting half the roster and then lying about why they did it!
If they cut the roster but, in return, we actually got better animations, better graphics etc, decit would not have even been a thing.
They LIED and that is why people were upset.
@Franz Oh god trying to join a raid is AWFUL. I never got a 4 player raid with random people working no matter how much I tried. And joining other people raids on the Ycomm ends 1 out of 2 times in a connection error. And more than once I ask other people to join only to find that noone joins.
And the 20 minute time limit kinda ruins single player battles online.
@Aeleron0X The latter is definitely a part of it, no doubt. But there are enough comparisons of animations and models on YouTube and other sources that prove the first portion as absolute malarkey.
You people need to accept that businesses might, can, and will lie to you.
@Saro We still don't know what Home even does. What is the point of Home if you can't bring Pokemon not avaliable on the newer games?
@Kalmaro Except that they didn't. Game development is a lot harder than what most people think it is. Read this post
@Kalmaro True, but I'm also mad that they cut half the roster. If Home has no battle mechanics, it's a hostage situation. It's going to be one-way transfer into home from Bank, and Sw/Sh is the only game right now that will allow two-way transfer. Which means Pokemon check in but they don't check out because half of them have no game to be played within. And Home will be a subscription service, so I'll lose everything if I stop paying my subscription...with nowhere to transfer my data for safekeeping if my sub lapses or I want to cancel.
You know that the fan base is toxic as hell. Gamefreak should just stop putting out Pokémon games for a few years and see how they react.
There is literally no hope for Pokémon, not because the of the developers or the quality of the games, but because of the toxicity that’s following it around. The people who somehow call themselves fans and yet don’t even like the games. If we could pull a ‘dexit’ on the community and cut the half of fans who are toxic, Pokémon would have room to evolve- as it did when we cut half the dex.
@NoxAeturnus I would r have minded too much if, say, the animations were so good that double kick actually involved the Pokémon dashing over and kicking someone twice.
Not what we got, which is scorbunny's model awkwardly shifting forward twice.
@Aeleron0X That article said "might" more times than I can count and "maybe" more than they should too.
In the end, they didn't actually know what they were talking about, they were making guesses. We already know that they reused assets from older games, including importing animations.
In other words, the work was already there for them, they just were extremely inefficient. They couldn't even just make the gigantimax model a blown up version of the base model. They had to use 3 different models, one for each cloud, and it's all because they clearly don't know how to be efficient.
@KingBowser86 Just because something looks similar doesn't mean that the process is the same. That's the thing that's important to understand about game development. Different hardware use different codes to parse and render stuff. The 3DS can do things that the Switch can't and the Switch can do things that the 3DS can't. Upgrading hardware has a lot more meaning than what you think
@Franz I mean... To be fair, every game gets repetitive after a while. Although the Wild Area gets kinda repetitive early on probably because it is so unpolished and disconnected.
My main problem is that the story tells you to collect all the Pokemon possible and encourages you to build varied teams but the game is so easy that building complex teams and collecting a bunch of Pokemon kinda fells pointless. And with the online being a disaster and the post game being really short I ended up asking why I was building a team and collecting Pokemon.
@WoolooSweater In my opinion the people that use the "those are not real fans" excuse to defend the games are the toxic ones.
Also the reason why Pokemon doesn't evolve and comes out every year has NOTHING to do with the fans reactions or demands. They do it because of short term profits. That's it.
@Kalmaro Gonna put this up. If you really have any questions, then ask him
@Aeleron0X It would be nice if GameFreak actually said the real reason why the cut happened instead of lieing about it or being extreamly vague and hiding information. We didn't know the number of returning Pokemon until the game was leaked, we didn't know about the move cuts, we didn't know features like the GTS or the VS Recorder would be cut and we still don't know what Home even does.
"My main problem is that the story tells you to collect all the Pokemon possible and encourages you to build varied teams but the game is so easy that building complex teams and collecting a bunch of Pokemon kinda fells pointless."
This is interesting. In my opinion, making it easier encourages you to build more complex teams. Why make it harder to build a complex team? This is why I prefer this gen over the older gens. Make it easier to build a team, so I can spend less time on "grinding" and more time on strategy...
@Aeleron0X People can't stop posting that link, huh? Do you know than that dev is just assuming? Like everyone else? That proves nothing. There are other devs that said opposite things. Does don't count?
@jowe_gw Except that the guy has 15+ years of experience in the game industry and knows a lot more than you do. Just take a look at his FAQ section and read the different posts he writes. He goes into detail about the development and business process of video games. Also what kind of credentials do the "devs" that you mention have?
@Light What is exactly your point in this comment? I said that building a team is easy already. My question is, as a non competitive fan, what's the point? The only thing that I would do is making an easy story mode even easier (to the point of boredom). The story mode doesn't test you much in terms of having a varied team. So what's the point? I enjoyed the most the story mode by not using candies obtain in the Wild Area and that made a big part of what I did in there worthless.
Also, why do we have access to Exp candy so early in the game? That should be post game material honestly.
I feel the game was rushed, but not so much out of incompetence completely, but having a strict schedule to release it alongside the anime. We joke/complain about Dexit (I miss my Fennekin), the trees, etc, but I imagine that if they had more time, they could have worked those out. But there are times where incompetence really is the answer. For instance, there are numerous times where the performance leaves me baffled as to why it struggles. The face-off frames just before battles has very little happening, yet the frame rate gets sluggish.
This is not to say I'm not enjoying the game. I do enjoy it.
My problem with that explanation, regarding the response to them already been made for X/Y, is that they weren't taking from the 3DS games to use in the Switch games. They took from whatever they used that then got converted to the 3DS games. The future-proofed models. Heck, the X/Y games weren't even the first to have most of these models. The Pokedex 3D (and Pro) did, over 2 years prior to X/Y.
@Aeleron0X And changing codes is less of a task than making the 3D model.
Someone mentioned the "yearly franchise" concept earlier, and yeah, it shows this time. If it was such a big leap, they should have taken their time. But nope. They're just going to fall into the same "death spiral" that Miyamoto warned about years ago. I mean, really, it's telling that there's visible confusion as to what the point (not purpose) was of Pokémon Home if SwSh don't have all of the Pokémon available (as has been the case in past games, speaking of carrying models and animations over across hardware).
No problem bro, not trying to offend. Agreed, for non-post gamers, I can understand the frustration. Enjoy the rest of your day.
As I see it, the reason for the dexit was because there are too many Pokémon to handle. We are almost at 1000, and if they keep adding new Pokémon every 3 years, the dex would be too big to manage (and too big to include in each game)
The options to handle this situation- the paths that Gamefreak could take this series down- are as follows:
1) They start leaving out past Pokémon available in each generation of games in favor of new Pokémon. (Aka the dexit) I’m sure the cuts wouldn’t be permanent, and the Pokémon that are available and cut each generation would vary. Now obviously ‘nobody’ liked the dexit and it was ‘bad’...
2) They just stop adding new Pokémon and return all the old ones. This might sound cool, but remember most of the hype for every new gen surrounds the new Pokémon and the new region. If they stopped adding new Pokémon, what would be the point of buying a new game. Would they have to double down on new stupid mechanics? New Pokémon are what make new Pokémon games, and to stop adding them would make the games even more feel repetitive than they already are.
So a world where we don’t feature every Pokémon and focus on the new ones we add? Or one where every Pokémon game features the exact same batch of Pokémon with no changes.
@Aeleron0X Everything that person posted sounds nice but there's no evidence that gamefreak did anything different than change how lighting works. I've worked with 3D models too and, at least with Blender, I can get almost identical result If not better just by changing the lighting and how sharp or smooth shadows are.
They do make a point that some tweaking has to be done on normals in rare cases but that's hardly a problem.
The person doing the article as does not claim to have any special insight in what happened I'm this game. They know how to impress you with their knowledge with modeling but they don't have insider knowledge of what went down in this particular instance. The data miners know though, since they went through the code.
(To reiterate, the dexit is Gamefreak solution for managing their ever- growing Pokédex.)
@Aeleron0X Assuming stuff about me won't you? And also assuming that all the other devs that think differently of his are apperantly wrong. Why? Is only one opinion valid? Besides he doesn't know what happened exactly in SWSH development. Only GameFreak does. He is assuming. Just like anyone else.
Do you want to know my theory about why this happened? Lack of planning for HD development and a strict time scedule. So basically, they were unprepared and they rushed the game out.
Also, if the problem was with the transition between 3DS and Switch in terms of the models why they didn't put all the LGPE Pokemon in SWSH? LGPE IS ON THE SWITCH after all.
@WoolooSweater They could just give us everything and stop making yearly releases. They have the money to get a bigger team, they just choose not to for some reason. The game was rushed and that's why so much stuff was taken out. They cared more about getting the game out around the anime launching than finishing this up properly.
@ItalianBaptist hai una visione molto chiara della situazione
@WoolooSweater The problem is that it seems that they cut the Pokemon for nothing. There is still no post game and the games felt rushed still. If cutting out the Pokemon meant having more features and more complete Pokemon games then I'm all for it. But I don't see that in SWSH.
@jowe_gw You're spot on with your comment in #59 about what the game encourages versus what actually happens. Here's my idea for Pokemon:
-Every type has an environmental power. All pokemon of that type can use that power outside of battle. It's not a move for use in battle, only for accessing areas in the environment. Exploration areas are gated behind these. Now you have to use various types of pokemon to even explore the world.
-When you face a gym, you have to use that type of Pokemon in all gym battles in that gym. You gotta earn it with the type.
-When you beat a gym, the badge for that gym unlocks that type's environmental power. So you can't explore areas until you collect that type and beat that gym.
Then build an exploration based Pokemon game around it. They don't even have to use my idea, but I wish they'd do something with Pokemon's potential. Instead of something new and interesting we get Dynamax, raids that are fun exactly once, a tacked-on and distressingly empty wild area, and an ever-expanding and unwieldy roster.
@jowe_gw Except that AAGD isn't the only one. A lot of other developers and animators agree with him about the workload that Game Freak has to go through. As for LGPE, I've linked another post from AAGD about 3D models. If you really have such an issue with him, then why don't you ask him then?
@KingBowser86 Have you actually made a video game or learned to code? AAGD explicitly said that moving from one hardware generation to the next is incredibly difficult. Here's another post
Also, I do agree that I think Pokemon should take a break from yearly releases. I think it's going to do more harm than good. But the reason why I'm linking to AAGD is to show that there is more to it than just modelling and animation
@Aeleron0X Again, they could choose to let the franchise breath a bit and NOT release it yearly. Let's assume everything he's said is true. So it's hard? Hire more people. Collaborate with another studio. Give it more time. They're sitting on one of the largest global franchises, yet they develop for it like it's the minor leagues and they've managed it very poorly over the years.
@Kalmaro Pokémon fans:
2017: [No gen 8] “Why haven’t we gotten gen 8 on switch yet?!”
2018: [No gen 8] “WE WANT GEN 8 NOW!!”
2019: [Gen 8 comes out] “Why didn’t they wait until 2020 and delay the game? BringBackNationalDex!!”
I wonder why...
@Aeleron0X I would agree with those devs (still ignoring that not everyone thinks the same...) if Pokemon wasn't the most profitable media franchise of all time and their games didn't sell millions.
I get that the National Dex had to be cut eventually but it seems that it got cut for nothing. We still got the same animations and the same models than before despite the cut. I can't see anything that they got better because of the Dexit cut. The only thing that I see is that the game wasn't ready and they wanted a main Pokemon game this year so they cut the Pokemon. That's it.
@WoolooSweater That's a broad generalization, I know I never said that. I wouldn't have minded waiting longer. Besides, I like the mystery dungeon games more.
@Aeleron0X I don't think anyone is claiming that they don't have an increasing workload. The criticism is over how they are addressing it. They are trying to do more and more work without getting a bigger team to help with the load. So they cut stuff and ticked off the fans while giving us a product that shows its rushed.
Not release games so fast.
@WoolooSweater Of course it's the fault of the fans... And not GameFreak doing desitions for short term profit. What was the point of games like USUM? Would have been devastating if that game didn't exist and Pokemon took a year off? How many fans asked for a gen 1 remake before LGPE was announced?
If they wanted to calm down the fans in a year off (or a two year off) then they could have done what Nintendo did with Metroid Prime 4 or Fire Emblem and just announce the game early and then unveil more information when it is ready.
@NoxAeturnus Except hiring people isn't exactly easy. It's a long and difficult process. You need to apply your application and resume, do a phone interview, then have an actual interview, do a test, and then wait to get hired while the people doing the hiring have to sift through other people trying to apply for the same position. And even if a person gets hired, they have to get up to speed and learn the tools and the workflow which takes time. As for outsourcing, sure it can help but it also has its problems. Every game studio uses different tools to make their games and if a company decides to outsource their work to a different studios, then that studio would have to set aside their schedule and relearn the tools. Everything isn't black and white as it seems
@WoolooSweater Fans sure did say those things collectively. You know what they didn't say, "I really hope they remake Gen 1 (Edit: AGAIN) before releasing Gen 8." GF managed to release Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee and develop Little Town Hero in that time as well. Sw/Sh are rushed and weak, would they have been so if GF wasn't trying to spread themselves thin on other projects?
@Aeleron0X Didn't say it wasn't. I don't code or model, but I am executive team for a regional business, so I'm looking at everything - models, animations, coding, budgets, expectations, past performance, past products - and seeing nothing but potential quality/deadline/process sustainability problems if we're to believe everything we've been told.
Also? No point in posting the interviews — most are too galvanized by the final product of SwSh to believe anything that's said (assuming that people would actually read your information that you're presenting just to argue with you you you you you).
@Aeleron0X That is not an excuse for not even trying to increase your team. That is the case with GameFreak.
Yeah it is difficult but other teams did it. Other teams under the Nintendo umbrella did it. In both outsourcing and increasing it's size for HD development. Nintendo themselves said it was hard but they did it anyways because it was a necessity to continue competing in the buisness.
@Aeleron0X "Except hiring people isn't exactly easy. It's a long and difficult process."
They could have been doing this for years. There's no reason why they haven't been slowly adding period over time as they got more work to do.
We have fans who have done a better job with Pokémon's own models in a day than these guys have in a year.
At the end of the day, the problem is that Gamefreak never adjusted. They got more work and, instead of finding ways to take it on, decided to just remove stuff instead. That's the bottom line.
@NoxAeturnus "I really hope they remake Gen 1 again"
Fixed that for you 👍🏾
Fire red and Leaf green were good games though, imo.
@jowe_gw Again, which devs are you referring to? Every developer has different experiences in making games. Like what kind of games have they primarily worked on? What was their role in making those games? What is their background education? Did they work indie or have they worked in AAA games? How many years of experience do they have? etc. If you can give me some info on the people who you are referring to that would be nice.
Also, I'm not making an excuse about not increasing the team. I was pointing how hiring and outsourcing isn't always feasible because there are different variables that go into play. Moreover, hiring people can greatly increase the budget of a game since you have to play for the worker's salary and benefits. And unfortunately that's the reason why layoffs in the game industry is so common
@Aeleron0X Who is saying it's black and white? What we're saying is they had options. They didn't take them. Intelligent Systems collaborated to get FE:Three Houses done. Retro was pulled in for Metroid Prime 4. Nintendo has a lot of talent. GF doesn't. They're very insular, and that's becoming more and more of a problem. Their studio is not up to speed on modern game development, as you've pointed out numerous times. You know how you get up to speed? You hire new talent. You collaborate with other talented people in the industry. You give yourself the time to get the job done right. I'd be more sympathetic if this wasn't a problem they hadn't created themselves by mismanagement. They're sitting on one of the largest global brands in existence.
@KingBowser86 The reason why I'm posting links to AAGD is because there are a lot of misconceptions people have about game development. To show that reality is a lot more complex than it seems
It seems like Pokemon simply has a problem with a very specific demographic who is always complaining about the games. I can't help but to notice this, how there always seems to be these people who complain endlessly online and spell doom and gloom for the whole franchise. They seem to do this every time there are changes made despite also complaining about not enough changes being made. At the end of the day they just come off as very demanding people who should probably move on to other things and let everyone else simply enjoy the games.
Pokemon has some very toxic fans. There is no rule or law stating there has to be a national dex.
@JayJ You are doing a lot of assuming stuff here. And are those complaints invalid?
@Kalmaro @NoxAeturnus Nintendo and Pokemon Company are two separate companies. Sure, they're related but they operate in their own ways. Nintendo doesn't 100% control Pokemon. Look here's posts by AAGD about why throwing money at the problem(hiring and outsourcing) doesn't automatically fix everything. And look, if you really have such an issue with him, then talk to him instead of arguing here.
@michellelynn0976 Always with the "toxic fans" excuse right?
@JayJ "At the end of the day they just come off as very demanding people who should probably move on to other things and let everyone else simply enjoy the games."
Mybad, I thought Gamefreak did these games were for everyone.
Theres complaints about changes when they remove stuff that's good, and complaints when they replace good stuff with things no one asked for.
"Oh boy, my Pokémon got bigger..."
Article like this do not help.
"However, for many players, the game was something of an anticlimax"
Which suggests the people with issues are far more widespread than they actually are, if it had said some players, then this would be far closer to the truth.
@Aeleron0X You sure love throwing his posts arround to feel more validated, right?
Throwing money to the problem is not guaranteed to work. I get it. But how is that an excuse to spend as little money as possible and make rushed and cheap games with the most profitable media franchise in the world?
That core demographic would complain no matter what Pokemon game was released, so no wonder GameFreak do not cater for that.
@Aeleron0X I think just starting at one page of coding or a DAW screen of an opened project for music should convey that enough lol
But seriously, the interviews still don't tell us the nitty-gritty details of their workloads or hard internal discussions, so the only thing any of us can actually rely on are past timeframe trends and product cycles.
@WoolooSweater What about Option 3, “new Pokemon get new models and animations while the older ones get updated on a case by case basis.” That is what Genius Sonority did for a decade with Stadium, Colosseum, and Battle Revolution. And generally, although Battle Revolution has its detractors, it wasn’t due to the fact that they were reusing N64 models.
People can accept less impressive graphics in return for a vast roster. This is how Pokemon could get away with looking worse than other handheld games.
@johnvboy Are you really complaining about them saying "many players" instead of "some players". Really?
@Aeleron0X I don't have any interest in talking with that person. I'm more interested in why you keep trying to hide behind them instead of looking into things yourself. @NoxAeturnus and I know that Pokémon and Nintendo are handled differently.
One of those two manages to put out main-line games they blow people away with quality and knows how to adjust to growing workloads. The other, if they made Mario, would probably remove Bowser and half the levels so they can lie about giving us better animations.
“Talking Point: Even Dexit couldn’t derail the Pokémon hype train in 2019”
“robust sales have proven that even when you've lost the support of the most rabid fans of the series, you can still achieve commercial success.”
Are they the most rabid fans? Or are they just the most vocal and entitled?
@johnvboy Mario is also for kids and this mainline games are not rushed yearly releases that compleatly ignore complaints for the fans and don't want to innovate at all.
@Aeleron0X They've had more than 20 years to build those relationships. They're sitting on a huge mega-franchise. We shouldn't even be discussing that they haven't expanded their talent pool or their relationships with others in the industry. That should just be a given. That it's not is telling isn't it?
@LunarFlame17 Accusing of "entitlement" and "toxicity" to invalidate complaints.
What are you even talking about fella, your post makes no sense at all, the game is generating loads of excitement, and I pretty sure the mass buying audience were very excited for these games as well, Japan in has gone mental for them as usual, with the games taking top spot for 6 weeks in a row.
@Salnax Good Point, I’m just saying that the dex is getting to big- it isn’t unreasonable NOT to cut it.
@jowe_gw I'm not throwing his posts to feel validated. Let's be real here, a lot people like to think that game development is easy when in reality that's clearly not the case. People have a lot of misconceptions about game development and so it's important to understand the nuance of what can happen.
I never said that Game Freak was using the least amount of money possible. My point is that "there's a lot more than it looks"
Nintendolife: "Hey, we haven't had a controversial article in a while.. Let's poke the Pokémon fans again, that always works."
I never mentioned kids, I simply said the core complainers were i the minority, just look a the games sales to see that.
Love it....live for the Pokemon sword and shield comment sections, so much fun.
@Kalmaro 100%, they may as well have just written, "No news today guys, but Pokemon's still a victim of its own success. Discuss." And I did, because I'm bored today.
@Kalmaro I'm not hiding, I'm just simply providing a different perspective
@johnvboy I watch this place like a hawk JUST for the comment sections.
@Aeleron0X Who is saying game dev is easy? No one here has said that, unless I missed a post.
We've made suggestions like "hire more people" but that's with the understanding that it takes time and effort to do so. We're not just saying "Hire more people, lolz"
You work a job long enough and you see how no much work hiring more people takes. They have to know what they are doing, mesh well with current workers, be willing to learn, etc.
@johnvboy So they don't have to listen to complaints, evolve or improve at all and all the complaints are invalid? Sales=quality now?
Can't wait for the next rushed Pokemon game next year? Probably will have arround 200 Pokemon total and 3 new Charizard forms
All the complaining people one here could do a lot better job at developing video games, it's just so easy.
@electrolite77 Yeah you can call that "the Twitter effect," when all the loud people you hear getting outraged on the internet are just a small minority of the potential audience. It shows how there is a huge difference between internet popularity and real world popularity.
@johnvboy Yeah exactly, you can't give in to these people because they tend to have out of control egos and the things they want are more often than not at odds with what most people want. This sort of thing has become very common in gaming communities especially, they no longer represent the audience, they just represent what some hardcore internet community wants. Sales don't lie, it seems like I am always hearing gamer communities complaining about things that everyone else seems to enjoy and enjoying things that nobody else seems to like.
@Aeleron0X Who said game development is easy here? Seriously, who? No, it's not easy. I'm just wondering why the biggest media franchise of all time release games that feel so cheap and rushed and people are calling the ones that complain about it "toxic".
At the end of the day, the models and animations are almost identical to the 3DS games. Putting aside what could have happened behind the scenes. And the games felt rushed.
@johnvboy Again, who said that developing videogames is easy here? People are complaining about what the game is. That's it.
They have listened to complaints, but it's just got so toxic from the core fans that even themselves have to admit they do not know what they want anymore, they are just getting so upset at a game not designed for them anymore, move on it's better for them.
@JayJ I didn't know people wanted rushed games? I guess all the complaints people have are invalid because the game sold...
@johnvboy We could probably do a better job at making some of the decisions, I won't lie and say I can make a game though, not yet anyway.
Still, the whole "you haven't made a game so your opinion is invalid" argument doesn't work. You don't need to make a game to know when a game dev is doing something wrong. Much like I don't have to be a pro basket player to know a bad player when I see one (they usually are the one who can't score).
@johnvboy How do you know they listen to the complaints?
Also, since when is it fine to design games to be rushed yearly realeases?
And another thing, are the people complaining about the game the only ones being toxic here? Be serious.
In our own inflated opinion we would know better, but trust me GameFreak will know the formula by now, and the mass buying gamers they are aiming at will be well catered for, trust me.
@WoolooSweater I am of mixed feelings about this. They are inevitably going to have to cut the Dex, but why to 400 Pokemon? It’s just that we previously had more than that many in games since 2006. It’s like every new Pokemon effectively is standing in for five old ones.
If GameFreak announced “We are going to remove a similar number, I doubt as many people would have minded. After all, many people only became outspoken about Dexit after their personal favorite was cut. It just seems odd to me that GF would do this and NOT expect some sort of backlash, especially since this feature goes back for most of the series’ life.
Not saying those links you posted aren't by someone who doesn't know their stuff, but with regard to the Pokemon models, it just seems off. For one, when a team goes about making models, assets, etc for a game, they don't limit themselves to the restrictions of the platform from the very start. They make them of higher quality, with all the bells and whistles, such as the different "maps" used on the meshes. Then they take that, and scale it down. They aren't taking the models straight from the 3DS games to put on Switch. They are using the originals that were made that they then scaled down for the 3DS games. Most of the work is already done from taking from the master versions. They can't account for everything, like the additional animations needed for scenarios like the camping portions, but for the most part, they would have the majority of what they need without having to redo anything.
Gonna be honest.
The other Pokemon games on the Switch are actually better.
They are copies of the original with some changes but they are at least longer and more interesting than these uninteresting games.
They are being toxic, why would the defenders of the game get toxic, there is no need to do they are happy after all.
@johnvboy I don't think anyone is claiming that their games aren't going to sell well. It's Pokémon.
We just know they can do better.
@jowe_gw Believe it or not, we know they at least see Twitter post. Gamefreak commented on how they were distressed with what people were saying.
@jowe_gw I've already linked posts about how making the models and animations isn't easy and how hardware can impact the code. If you like to proclaim yourself as an open minded person, then try listening to professionals who have years in the industry
Not invalid, as you and others can complain as much as you want, but you have to realize the masses do not feel the same way as you do.
@Discostew If you really have doubts, then you can just ask him on Twitter. He responds pretty fast and can give you a good answer. Although it's holiday time right now, so you might have to wait until the New Year
@johnvboy Yeah exactly, these over-entitled people you see on gaming communities all seem to think they are the most important thing to gaming and that their taste, attitude, and hangups are things that everyone else should be concerned about. They really just need to get over themselves and realize how there are a ton of people out there who seem to be having fun with these games.
Never said that, anyone can have an opinion, but all I have ever said is it's not the majority view of these games.
@johnvboy They get toxic with their "comebacks" to people that complained about SWSH. Painting everyone that complaints as "not true fan" for example.
@JayJ Then good for them but that doesn't make the complaints invalid or that GameFreak should just ignore it and release yearly rushed mainline Pokemon games.
I have never stated that, in fact I feel it's quite the opposite, these fans love the series too much for it to ever live up to their expectations.
@Aeleron0X I've read his stuff. I can see his point. I still think the exact same. Sorry, but I see no reason why Pokemon HAS to look like this unless you are defending rushed products.
@johnvboy Maybe the reason core Pokemon fans seem unsure what the perfect game would be is because they are a massive group with different histories with the series?
Some people want relatively big worlds to explore like in GSC. Some want adventures built around stories like in BW and SM. Some want a great competitive metagame, some will never touch it.
The reason Dexit has gotten so much ire is that it pisses off one group without directly benefitting another. Some people complained about Sun/Moon being so story focused and linear, but at least some people like that kind of experience. Do any players directly benefit from no National Dex?
Without a doubt, these guys have grown up with these games and not left the series and moved on, so when GameFreak makes these games for the mass younger audience you will always have issues, as the core gamers believe the developer should cater for all their individual whims.
@johnvboy Of course I know the masses don't think like I do, because Pokémon stopped being for core fans and now it's for 'everyone'.
Although everyone, lately, seems to excludes hardcore fans. We aren't asking for much, we just want them to slow down so we can have everybody.
@jowe_gw There is no point in getting all philosophical over the validity of complaints about something like that, by then you have totally lost sight of what matters. Hardcore fans of a big long running franchise like this will always find things to complain about, and if the fans got their way and got everything they wanted they would probably still complain about the final product because they don't know anything about developing a good product.
If it sells and a lot of people seem to enjoy it, I don't see the problem, especially from an entertainment standpoint which is what video games should be all about in the end. I think some people get so carried away with the little worlds that are created in these franchises that they lose sight of what really matters. They can't simply enjoy anything anymore because they are always too busy making demands and getting outraged when they aren't met.
@johnvboy A lot of fans forget that a majority of people who play video games are mostly just casuals who just want to play a game and have fun and then move on. These posts can offer some insight
@johnvboy I guess I expect too much with having a Pokemon game that doesn't feel rushed or has actually has good animations. Like a lot of other games that make less money.
And ignoring fans and making yearly rushed releases is ok I guess.
I do think it needed to be streamlined, and judging by the sales figures I think most tend to agree, of course they could all be buying these games while at the same time hating them.
I have a lot of issues with the games, but the dex was never one of them. After playing I actually appreciate being able to complete the dex without having to fall back on a finished collection from older games if I don't want to deal with trading mons from 10 different games, do cumbersome mini games for additional evolution items, or beg people online for dozens of legendary codes because my Gamestop doesn't do events. (Which will likely change for future game since Gamefreak just can't stop doing the event-only crap, see Star/Ribbon Sweets.)
@JayJ You say that but the hardcore fans managed to get the sonic movie not to look like complete garbage.
We complained so much that a movie was actually delayed just for us.
@JayJ Sales are not a measure of quality. Otherwise they should stop making main series Pokemon games entirely and pour all of their resources into Pokemon Go. That's where the real money is.
Fans is a very broad term, the mass fans these games areaimed at are fine,it's just the core minority fans are not happy.
@JayJ So I guess rushed products are ok... Continue defending that. I can't wait until the next rushed Pokemon next year.
@NoxAeturnus oh man, I didn't think of that, that's pretty sad.
I'm just saying that it's rather silly to think a team would make something low-quality only to go about making high-quality stuff not many years after when they could make the high quality stuff from the beginning and then scale it down. Take Wind Waker HD. They didn't remake the assets in a higher quality, like the textures. They used the originals made during development which were already of high quality. What was used on the GC were scaled down versions to fit the platform.
@jowe_gw Maybe you should try to find something better to be concerned about and not get all fussy every time someone enjoys the latest Pokemon game.
If these games had failed sales wise you could bet your bottom dollar it would be a measure of quality though.
Can't have it both ways fella.
@KingBowser86 Game companies tend to be quiet and secretive about their own game development. It happens with most game companies, not just Nintendo and Game Freak. You're right that AAGD doesn't have the exact details but he does give good perspectives and judging by his experience, I would say he's reliable
Don't buy it if you don't like it, simple.
@johnvboy Exactly, that is the Twitter effect in full force. The most outraged minority presenting themselves as the majority when they are just really out of touch with the majority.
Because they spend all day on here discussing things with like minded people, people in bubbles speaking to other people in similar bubbles.
@JayJ What are you talking about? If someone enjoys a game then great. I have no isues with it. It doesn't mean the game is not a rushed mess. It is fine to like a rushed mess? Sure. I've even enjoyed some games that were clearly rushed.
@Discostew Game development can be weird sometimes. I think it's important to understand that Game Freak's experience has mostly been with portable consoles and they've always viewed Pokemon as predominantly handheld only game, compared to Nintendo who has a lot of experience making home console games. I would imagine that making a big leap from 3DS to Switch was difficult for them. So it's understandable as to why they mostly stuck with low poly stuff first.
@johnvboy The "don't buy it if you don't like it" excuse. I already didn't buy it. I'm just complaining that the latest game in I franchise I liked was a rushed mess.
Also, SALES ARE NOT A MESURE OF QUALITY. If a game doesn't sell that doesn't mean it is a bad game and if it suceeds that doesn't mean that it is good.
No they will never take things like that into account.
I honestly don’t get the hate for Sword & Shield. Yeah it sucks that not every Pokémon are included in the game, and the graphics could of been better. But i’ve been having a blast with Sword. This is the most fun i’ve had with a Pokémon game since X & Y. I didn’t really enjoy the Sun and Moon games. They were honestly overrated imo. But i’m having a good time with Sword. I really enjoy it.
@Severian 3DS can play Gen I, II, IV, V, VI, and VII.
Totally missing my point, I never said the games sales were a measure of overall quality, I said it was a measure of people not being as upset as some would make you believe.
And my comment was simply stating if the games sales were poor then the complainers would see this as justification that they were right all along.
@johnvboy I take things like that into account. But that doesn't make anything that I said false. The game feels rushed and cheap still.
@SpicyBurrito16 It's a deep rabbit hole and if you're not concerned about it, I'd suggest just enjoy your game. I'm glad you're having fun.
Rushed mess only in your and the minorities opinions, I am sure a lot of fans love these games with none of your issues.
@jowe_gw It feels rushed and IS rushed. They couldn't even get the credits done without the mouse cursor not being seen.
@johnvboy They are a rushed mess still dude. It's fine to love a game that is rushed but that doesn't mean that it isn't.
I have had the game (Shield) since launch but I just can't get into it. On the other hand, I went back and played Alpha Sapphire on the 3DS and have no problem getting into that one.
The point I was making is I don’t want to play the 3DS versions because I am spoiled by the quality of life improvements for generation 8.
There is not as much hate as some would have you believe, it's just the core minorities are far more determined and a lot more vocal.
Some people (NL Staff) just want to watch the comment section burn.
@johnvboy If the sales were low I would be happy because GameFreak would have listen more since companies tend to do that more when their bottom line is affected.
@Salnax Yes. Some people are honestly overwhelmed by too many monsters in the game. And balance is extremely challenging as we've seen with Smogon moving toward banning Dynamax in the Gen VIII Nat Dex environment (too many top tier threats can take too much advantage of Dynamaxing, let alone Ditto transforming into a Mega Evolution and then Dynamaxing).
There's good reasons to limit the pool for the competitive environment, and very good reason to limit it for new players.
Various tournaments have limitations themselves. I just hope we can eventually get something akin to a Stadium/Colosseum/Battle Revolution title for Switch that uses your HOME'd mons.
@jowe_gw SwSh weren't rushed. It's most likely that they've been in development after Ultra Sun and Moon were done, so the development cycle would be around 2 years. Also, we don't know the exact budget for SwSh since Pokemon Company(as well as Nintendo) rarely ever talk about the budget they spend on each game they make
I love the way you concede that it's o.k to love a rushed rubbish game, so gracious of you.
@johnvboy Yeah. Kids buy it so complaints are invalid.
@Devlind Mmmm, delicious ad revenue.
@johnvboy Confirmation bias sure is a jerk alright
Love it, just stoking the fire as usual, they know they are onto a winner with any Pokemon article though, it's fans are just so balanced and level headed.
That is who the games are aimed at, so in a nutshell yes.
@Aeleron0X They definetely look and feel rushed tho. It's clear that GameFreak didn't know how to complete it in that timeframe.
@marandahir The competitive argument falls apart once you realize that they could just ban what Pokémon you can use in competitions. You don't have to just remove them from the game entirely.
Just shows it goes both ways, but is only valid when it supports a negative view of something.
How about Let's Go! instead of Gen I, HG/SS on DS instead of Gen II, and OM/AS instead of Gen III then?
Though clearly what's needed is a 2020 or 2021 Gen VIII remake of Diamond & Pearl on Switch. It's just about time.
@johnvboy I mean... it is right. I loved games that were also probably rushed. But I would never say that it is ok to rush them like you guys are doing.
@marandahir like I said, the quality of life improvements in generation 8 (let’s go and sword and shield) make it hard to go back. And I don’t want to unless it’s updated with the gen 8 improvements.
@Severian Which improvements? I like how you can access your box from anywhere.
The other side of that argument though stands. Dynamaxing is a big uncertainty thrown into the mix for new players. Figuring out 800+ species with Dynamaxing to make it fun and accessible for new players without being overwhelming is challenging.
Ideally, they would have just put all the Pokémon in the same situation as Mew or Squirtle or Cobalion – able to transfer to the game through HOME eventually, but not present in the game natively. That solves that issue, but given the above, and the questionable #s of people who ACTUALLY DO TRANSFER for their majority gameplay, Gamefreak may have written it off as not as important as say, including 151 different recipes of curry.
I would have hoped getting the end credits right or having non-digital-looking trees would have been worth the time saved on not programming in all 800+ Pokémon, but clearly multiple corners had to be cut in order to make the release deadline in time to sell toys.
Doesn't make it a bad game by any stretch, but it is disappointing and I hope that along with DLC Mythicals we may get DLC national dex.
That's an interesting point but still doesn't change that they could just ban them at tournaments. Like, it's so easy, I can't think of an argument against it.
Ban from tournaments > ban from entire game.
Also, they already said Pokémon won't be added, though we are getting a small handful of event Pokémon.
@Kalmaro that and being able to see Pokémon in the field rather than random encounters, chiefly.
I played through the game and enjoyed a lot of it... but it was all with the tinge that it wasn’t a real Pokémon game. ...Pokémon has gone under the banner of: Gotta Catch Em All from the beginning. To take away that feature by default means you’re not playing a full Pokémon game. ....The Pokémon Company made a lesser game to incorporate a gimmick. ...We’re here to collect. Not ooh and aw over added gimmicks that detract from the core game. ...At least I’m not.
@Severian That's kinda neat. I miss old school chaining where you fought a bunch of Pokémon. I got my first shiny pikachu that way.
If the complaints were valid there would be a lot more of them, not saying peoples personal complaints have no validity to the individual concerned.
IDK if this was mentioned (I can’t watch the video right now), but Game Freak has actually removed Creatures from its website. So major changes very well might be coming. And contrary to what the article says, it’s probably Nintendo driving the changes. Nintendo is most likely NOT happy with what’s happened with SwSh despite the high sales. Unlike Game Freak and Creatures, Nintendo actually cares about quality and will make some less profitable moves if it results in a better game. I think Nintendo may be attempting to gain majority control over the series in response to the controversy and make changes to the games’ release schedule and workforce to fix this mess. I certainly hope that’s the case.
@johnvboy ...Really? There are more to them. Unless you are deliveratly ignoring them of course.
@jowe_gw It’s okay if you don’t like Pokémon Sword and Shield, but people act like Game Freak is personally insulting them by not making a game that adheres to their exact requirements in every way, and that’s silly. If you don’t like it, don’t play it, and move on. There are literally hundreds of thousands of video games in the world right now. Find something you like and focus on that instead. I guarantee you’ll be a much happier person.
@LunarFlame17 I tried SWSH (a friend lend my it's copy) and didn't like it. And I'm talking about it in an article about the game with a comment section that asked people about the opinion they have about the game and how Dexit could influence future instalments. That's it. It doesn't mean that I'm not playing other games instead of SWSH right now. In fact, right now I'm finishing Astral Chain. A game that I actually love.
Unless anyone on here can show otherwise, the complaints so far are from a very vocal minority, and are personal issues with the games, at no point has anybody been able to demonstrate that these issues are shared by the wider Pokemon community, or even have any validity outside being very personal quibbles with the game, shared by a very vocal minority.
As nice as this sounds it seems very far fetched to me, Nintendo care about sales and the masses of people happy with these games, in fact on the Switch's news section they rave about the games best reviews.
@jowe_gw EXACTLY my point there!
Remind me of your points again.
No Dexit is the biggest threat to all mankind.
Dexit would have been fine if improvement was elsewhere, but nothing that's in the game is anything that couldn't have been expected with or without dexit.
The meta is broken and some animations are actually worse than their 3DS counterparts (IE: no more head-turning with Pokemon with max affection).
No head turning, how will you survive.
Only 214 comments !!, come on you moaners and whiners, you are all better than this, and you know it.
@johnvboy "All the complaining people one here could do a lot better job at developing video games, it's just so easy."
Late to the party but I love this argument because it's the same dumb argument that someone who doesn't cook has no idea what they're talking about if they don't like the food.
Nice to see you're back to patronising people too.
@johnvboy scroll up to 8:30AM to read my post. It's too long to list them all off again.
@johnvboy Everyone knows it is a minority. I fail to see how that is relevant considering it is a matter of validity and not the preference of the majority. These are not mutually exclusive.
Dexit is subjective. However there are objective issues with the game as documented in videos across the internet. The game underperforms on the hardware it was built for, for starters, dipping in frames per second where it should not. In addition, I will go out on a limb here, but having a move called "headbutt" with a kicking animation or a move called "fire punch" with one is a bit too "really?" to not call it a a flaw. Sometimes it just gets so questionable you have to raise an eyebrow.
Context also matters. These games are part of the most lucrative ip in existence. The money they are making is not being poured back into the products (either that or some serious mismanagement). This is an issue, because in a free market society it is expected that revenue intake continuously flows and cycles through the system. Its why you have bonds and shares instead of nickels and dimes. If it isn't, then it is just being pocketed. Where the money is actually going is anyones guess.
Also, yes these articles are clickbait. Not particularly fond of using upset people, no matter how trivial their coveet is, to make a quick buck but that is society unfortunately. If it isn't them upset then it must be irrational, after all.
Never said anybody can't have an opinion, it's just the negative side always seem to argue from a superior standpoint, with comments that seem to belittle anyone buying and enjoying these games, if there is any patronising going on I know where it's coming from.
All I have ever said was the complainers are in a minority.
To be honest I don't have the time, I am going to watch "It Chapter 2" in a minute on Blu-ray and its around three hours long, but I think your complaints will be on par with the rest.
It's very relevant when some seem to suggest mass hysteria surrounding these games, and if many people like and enjoy the games perhaps the issues are not all that widespread, not saying the complaints are not valid on a personal level to each individual, or they have no right to complain, but still I can't buy into the mass are wrong and the majority are right.
@johnvboy That's really weird because I'm not seeing the complainers telling people they can't enjoy the game but are instead simply expressing their disappointment in the future of the series.
Everyone else including yourself oddly enough, seem to be turning your noses up at their ridiculous idea that people would want better out of this game and pointing at how sales figures clearly make that irrelevant.
If repeating yourself with "the complainers are in the minority" for the billionth time whilst pasting winking faces makes you happy and convinces you this is good for the series then so be it. I think you've repeated yourself so much it'd be impossible to get anything else out of you anyway.
A better game is always the ultimate goal, but I just can't see that GameFreak have put no effort in at all, this is not true, but if you and others do not feel this way it's up to you.
@johnvboy "it's just the negative side always seem to argue from a superior standpoint, with comments that seem to belittle anyone buying and enjoying these games,"
Very untrue, no one here at all is saying that anyone can't enjoy the game.
If anything, we are disappointed that it is selling well but I have not seen a single person here acting superior and telling anyone else that they can't enjoy this game. You should take that back.
@LunarFlame17 Some most definitely are. But the majority of complaints are reasonable, seeing as there are actual examples of better optimized games on the very same hardware. It is not invalid to criticize the frame issues, or the popping in of objects when only a short distance away, as well as a handful of other technical issues since proof exists that this should not be the case. These things are objective issues that are not being addressed. Most developers at this point would be patching the game. But GF has not announced a single one, which implies they do not care.
@johnvboy The only thing you are doing here is saying that the complaints coming from people that want a better game don't matter because they are in the minority over and over again while saying they are "moaners" because they ask for a product to be better.
Then the ones that complain are the toxic ones.
@johnvboy We do not have enough information to say who actually is fine with the game and who is not. As you imply, the internet represents a minority. The majority of 6+ million players do not let their opinions be known. So we cannot generalize at all, on either side minority or majority.
I know I have seen plenty of people acknowledge the flaws yet still enjoy it. This is fine. But to not only ignore them but also refuse to accept they exist is... well lying, to put it as delicately as I can. And yes, some would rather pivot the conversation then ever acknowledge the issues being presented.
Also, I'm sure you know majority is never an argument for validity or not. The majority of humanity has agreed upon countless things in our history that we today know were incorrect. I doubt I need to gl into detail as to what some of those might be.
I just came here to see if people were done complaining every second of every day about these games, but I guess not. Not to stoke any flames but if the game isn't what you want then just let it go and move on. Game Freak has always been behind the times graphically, so expecting them to make a graphical showcase game was always just a silly pipe dream. Regardless, their games are still fun. Also, the games are never going to be super difficult because, regardless of anyone's opinion, the games are geared towards kids.
@eaglebob345 We WERE done talking about this, then Nintendolife had to go picking at a sorespot to get more clicks.
The whole "if you don't like it then move on" a thing is a lazy argument. If you don't like seeing people complain about this then why don't you just let it go and move on?
@eaglebob345 Difficulty settings are standard in the industry. Kingdom Hearts is geared toward children yet it still has a hard mode and got a harder mode in a free patch. GF refuses to provide difficulty settings let alone patch the issues.
Having standards is not a bad thing, nor is critique. Demonizing them is just as toxic as any foul mouthed hater. Without critique, products would never see improvement over time.
Pokedex issues aside, just use the Switch's capabilities to the fullest. Sword and Shield are not very well made games in terms of what could be done with the Switch. And no, they don't need to be carbon copies of any other games. But they were clearly rushed.
@eaglebob345 geared towards kids now means games with les quality are ok?
And, in terms of difficulty, why not include difficulty modes?
@Aeleron0X I've heard from amateur developers and they too are baffled as to its quality. Regardless, difficulty is irrelevant. If another product has proven what is possible, then it is a valid complaint when it is not up to technical standards. The consumer and business relationship is just that: business. If a product does not meet your standard you have every right to critique it. Such is the basis of a free market.
@Kalmaro I guess the same reason why you guys are still complaining. We're all a little too petty for our own good. 😂
@eaglebob345 I respect that you acknowledge you are ALSO petty lol. Most would call out those commenting without a realizing they too are commenting and therefore just as much to blame. People lack self awareness unfortunately.
@birthbysorrow Kingdom Hearts has been super easy since KH2, but I wouldn't say it's geared towards children. It's way too convoluted for that. People are critiquing the games more for not being exactly what wanted rather than what they actually are. Cutting the national dex was inevitable and the most legitimate complaint, but Pokemon Bank/Home are a way to keep your pokemon for the future. Once we got to complaining about remade models and trees, that when I realized we were in for some of the silliest complaints.
@eaglebob345 You have to understand the context. Like a snowball effect, Dexit lead to other complaints which lead to even more complaints and so on. It was the straw that broke the camels back. So yes, some are extremely petty. But it got to that point due to generations of cut content and not listening to vocal fans which finally boiled over.
Some technical issues, such as frame rate dipping and objects popping in only a few feet away are inexcusable tho. These are examples of poor optimization and can be fixed with patches. GF has not even addressed the issues let alone announced fixes. Most devs would have by now.
@KatBear "I haven’t cared about Pokémon since Gold/Silver and this is one of the best games I’ve ever played."
Well, you've certainly missed out on a lot. I've generally had about 600 hours in most Pokemon games like Sapphire, Platinum, Black 2, etc. and you would have enjoyed HeartGold/Soulsilver even more. Those games had a lot of content to enjoy because beating the Elite Four was just barely scratching the surface.
@birthbysorrow All the pettiness is funny for me, but I do wish more people were aware of their own. A lot of the changes in the new games annoy me but I'm not dragging it up every chance I get. I've had fun with every pokemon game I've ever played. However, the post game hasn't been good, for me personally, since Emerald and Platinum. SwSh are definitely fun, but they also fall into that post game slump, in my opinion.
@birthbysorrow Yeah, Game Freak aren't really that great of developers, they kind of jump around with the quality of their games between generations. But yeah, after a certain point piling on complaints was the trend. The framerate dips while connected to the internet are annoying and they should definitely patch it, but I haven't had any dips while disconnected. Pop in doesn't really bother me, but it is silly that it's there in the first place. Most of the performance issue seem patchable, but yeah they haven't really acknowledged them. I actually think the let's go games had better overall performance, minus Viridian Forest.
For the record, your initial comment came across a bit aggressive, but I figured it was more you being lethargic over all the hooplah the passed few months. So I gave you a chance and responded civilly, and was right in my assumption.
Basically, I hope you appreciate that not everyone is a rabid detractor. A lot of the problem when it comes to both sides communicating with each other is that one or the other jumps to conclusions. Ultimately, we often gave similar thoughts on the game. Just some feel more strongly about certain preferences then others.
@jowe_gw That’s good. I wasn’t necessarily talking about you. You responded to me originally.
Also, Astral Chain is amazing and it brings me joy to hear about other people loving it.
@birthbysorrow Even reasonable complaints can be expressed in an unreasonable way. I’m playing Pokémon Sword right now, and I’ll be the first to admit the game is far from perfect. I can understand being disappointed by the game and wishing Game Freak would improve it. But so many of the comments I’ve seen, both here and elsewhere, are from people acting like Game Freak OWES them a perfect game, and that’s what bothers me.
@Galenmereth That's what adblock is for!
To be fair dexit didn't. The game itself did that when released.
@Bolt_Strike "IDK if this was mentioned (I can’t watch the video right now), but Game Freak has actually removed Creatures from its website. So major changes very well might be coming."
Something occurred to me after reading that, so I looked up what Creatures has done for Pokemon. Turns out they are the ones behind the 3D modelling for Pokemon, all the way back to Pokemon Stadium and those included in Super Smash Bros on the N64. Even Pokken Tournament had Creatures handling the modelling.
@johnvboy Yeah you really hit the nail on the head with that bubble comment, and it is always those people who are stuck in some little internet community bubble of like-mindedness that try to gang up on everyone who thinks differently than they do. It is why they are always trying to pull passive aggressive stunts in order to assert whatever is popular among their group/cronies. Deep down they know how niche they are but they cling to their internet group-think mentality because that is only place where they feel they have some authority. It can become an issue for other people when internet egos get involved, popularity among a niche group can make people mistakenly feel popular in general.
Anyways I just see the discontent among people who seem to fall into that category for the most part. It seems like most people weren't looking for the perfect Pokemon game to meet a laundry list of demands, they were just looking for a Pokemon game to play on their Switch.
@JayJ "It is why they are always trying to pull passive aggressive stunts in order to assert whatever is popular among their group/cronies."
What? We didn't do anything here. Nintendolife started this mess by making a passive aggressive attack on people who had complaints about the game and then made it seem like we were only mad about Pokémon being removed.
That's the tip of the iceberg. I don't know how else I can say that the fact that they removed Pokémon and lied about why they did it is what really gets a lot of us mad.
There's no enhanced graphics or enhanced animations or anything that's really enhanced to a significant degree.
I didn’t care for Dexit but I was still a bit concerned about the overall quality of the game. After playing it... it was pretty mediocre. Not awful but they got rid of a lot of the stuff that made Pokémon fun to me (toggable exp share, post-game content, etc.) plus the visuals and animations were pretty subpar. The wild area was cool but it needed to be expanded across the entire game. Overall it was alright but I’m probably going to trade it in soon.
The way NL is STILL milking this controversy is nothing short of pathetic, especially considering that they never once addressed it for all of its facets. It's always the same "dexit=crybaby fans" thing, leaving out every actual major problem the games have.
I for one am very disappointed by Pokémon Swoosh, but Dexit isn't even among the first 5 (or even 10) reasons I have for not liking it.
@clvr I keep trying to tell people that then removing Pokémon isn't the bug deal, it's WHY they did it and how they lied about it.
Dexit is just one of the many problems the game have
The games are worse than ever, some people should need to understand that Nintendo released BoTW because people and critics voiced their concerns about Skyward Sword being repetitive and feeling "old", so they changed to formula and brought us a pure masterpiece, but the Pokemon fanboys won't ask for any change in regards to that, so whatever, maybe I'll get the Diamond remake as this one is really into me (I expect it to be good tho, because if it's not, remake or not, I will not buy it), but after that ? I'll better keep my wallet for something that's worth my money
I wish Pokemon was not as popular as it is I never hear the end of Pokemon this Pokemon that wherever I go it is beyond annoying for someone who doesn't care for Pokemon
Come off it, that has been a tone on a few comment sections, some not all are really upset that some are just getting on with it and enjoying this game, not that I blame them however, it's human nature to be a little confused when people do not share your own personal dislike for something.
@eaglebob345 "Also, the games are never going to be super difficult because, regardless of anyone's opinion, the games are geared towards kids." That's dumb. The target has always been the children, from the first game, it doesn't mean the game hasn't been made easier and they're right to do it. I'm not going to insult you by giving you examples, they're so obvious. But then, do you think children deserve easier games than us at their age? I don't think so, I don't think kids deserve to be given s*** or easy stuff "just because they're kids" and that makes it an excusable reason. Children can enjoy games like BoTW or Mario Odyssey, which aren't necessarily incredibly easy, but are still of exceptional quality, games that don't insult their intelligence in the end.
Do you agree with Masuda when he says that since everyone is even busier than before, they have to make the game easier, otherwise we'd be tempted to go and play something else on our phones or something? I think that's a completely stupid reason and I don't see how the fact that a game is easier makes us want to spend more time playing it. I think Dark Souls has proven otherwise, and I think it's really incredible that a manager of a profitable franchise like Pokémon would come up with such a stupid argument for the ease with which the franchise is being run.
But after all, if people keep buying the games, even when they're worse than before, they'll never change. What's sad is to observe that in the end, the game with the most content, the most "balanced", will be Black/White 2, which will be released in 2012. I hope with all my heart that they'll release a game capable of at least matching the quality of this title, but for that, people will have to stop bickering for nothing. If you like Pokemon, buy the game if you want, but there's a point where you shouldn't cry when people tell you things: the game is objectively worse than the previous ones.
You and others can keep hiding behind the whole arguments it all for the sake of the game, but I would bet my house on the fact if you all got everything you wanted, there would still be people unhappy.
I have never said the game was perfect, but it's a solid entry to the series, it's flaws will be noticeable to some and a non issue for others.
Gauging peoples response to the game is difficult, so as you say no way to tell either way, however I have always found with this an most things, people tend to be far more vocal when they are unhappy.
Also my point about the majority versus the minority was never one of right an wrong, as there is no right and wrong with this, it's all personal opinions at the end of the day, as I have said many times some of the games flaws will be the end of the world to one person, where another will either have very little issue with it or ignore it.
@johnvboy Prove it, I've been on every article about this and unless you're referring to the forums (I never go there) I don't believe you. In ever comment section there's people pointing out criticisms, folks picking at people for pointing out criticisms, people wondering what the deal is and that's about it.
I have yet to see anyone saying "Stop enjoying this game."
@johnvboy "but it's a solid entry to the series" Lmao but that's the case with all Pokémon games, it doesn't make sense to say that. Whether or not flaws can be noticed doesn't mean anything either.
It's not about enjoying the game (I don't care if people like the game), it's about the fact that if you like the game, then you'll have to accept the decline in quality that's been going on since at least Black & White 2. Sometimes I like games or other products that I describe as "crap", but I like them anyway. It's the same with Pokémon, no matter how much you like it, you'll just have to accept the fact that the more time goes by, the worse it gets because Gamefreak makes stupid decisions, lies openly to the fans (because it's the fans who read the news about the upcoming Pokémon game releases, not little Kevin who sees the ad on TV and writes it on his Christmas list) and you're one of the people who's willing to buy the product anyway. I wouldn't want to be in that position, but then again, if you don't mind, then I have nothing to say about it (no irony at all), but you can't stop people from talking about it.
Personally, I'm not going to buy any more Pokémon games until they make a real change, something that really renews the game, or makes me want to buy it anyway, because it's over, we're coming to 2020, and there are some absolutely gorgeous games coming, I can get so much better for the same price that I'm not going to insult myself by buying a Pokémon game that thinks I'm a retarded kid (and I stress retarded, because the game is so easy that no one will make me think it's hard for a child. The difficulty of the game is not child-friendly, it's baby-friendly).
So you would not even concede that certain members have used their posts against the defenders in a very superior way, and when I said "Stop enjoying the game", there are many members who make people feel very stupid for liking this game, and let's be honest here there goal is to make GameFreak make a perfect Pokemon game, or at least the perfect game in their minds, so it does not help them if lots of gamers have no issues with this game and buy it in droves, because that would make little to no incentive for the developer to change their lazy ways, as they put it.
Totally your choice fella, might be time to move onto something else, as I have said if one of my favorite games gets made in a way I do not like I will not buy it.
@johnvboy "So you would not even concede that certain members have used their posts against the defenders in a very superior way"
Show me the posts and then we can talk.
Where are these people who are making other people feel stupid for owning the game? I've seen plenty of folks pointing out issues, like how the game was rushed but I still haven't seen anyone trying to make other people feel worse.
In fact, the only reason people are complaining is because defenders keep dismissing all the complaints. The article even starts with dismissing people who were upset with the Pokémon cut.
We didn't start this conversation.
If you think I am going to trawl through endless comment sections then you are mistaken, I am pretty sure you even responded to one of my posts in another related Pokemon article, saying that some can argue in a superior way.
We all know as well with a lot of things it's down to a persons perception of something as well as what is typed, there can also be lot to be learned when you read between the lines of a post, and just like in conversations the tone is also very important.
@johnvboy Then you're just making claims without anything to back them, I'm not interested in that.
I've can't recall anyone talking the way you suggest and you disagree. Unless we have something to prove one way or another its pointless to argue.
I am not arguing with you fella, yes the defenders including me have been dismissive, and let's say the complainers have been a little over the top sometimes with the way they react to certain claims their moaning is not shared by everyone, and as I said I am sure this has been the case form time to time on many of these comment sections, not looking it up fella I have better things to do as I am sure you do.
@BenAV GameFreak themselves even included difficulty options in Pokemon Black 2/White 2. The only reason people never used it was because they were locked behind an asinine key system. Otherwise, there were no good reason for them to get rid of difficulty options, and it's more needed than ever now.
So I’m about half way through Sword and I am enjoying the game. Yes, I would love to have all Pokémon in the game but I don’t think it’s a make or break issue for me. I’d probably put this as my 4th favorite Pokémon game. I do wish it was more difficult and I wish experience share was optional. Graphically is ok. Some places it looks really nice, others it looks like a 3DS game. I’d love some voice acting and a more compelling story. Hopefully GameFreak will continue to build on what worked and add some more on top. It’s still an enjoyable series but the envelope can be pushed much further.
@birthbysorrow Well amateur developers don't have the same knowledge and experience compared to professionals who have more than a decade of experience. The game has already sold well and most casuals are enjoying the game and having fun
The "Dexit" people were Russian hackers. I mean they just confirmed more than half of the anti-Star Wars people online were Russian hackers.
If you see people hating on things on the internet, it's a fake Russian account. Just remember that from here on out.
Pokemon Sword/Shield is amazing, must own, and will only grow the series.
It was a mistake for NintendoLife to post this article
Never cared about dexit but some of the more glaring issues with the game, such as a lot of the rough animations, need to be addressed.
That said, people were ready with their pitchforks for Game Freak but the Pokemon Company are the real problem here. The yearly release window has worked for them every year prior but this time it meant they had to rush a transition to newer hardware. For things to change, PC need to give GF more time.
Also, please stop attacking people for buying a game. Even if you think that its mediocre, it doesn't stop other people from enjoying it. I, for one, think it looks like a fun, if flawed, game and i intend to pick it up soon.
@johnvboy There will always be people unhappy with a game. You can't please everyone. That's not an excuse to ignore valid complaints and rushing the games out.
@XCWarrior I guess I'm a Russian bot now because I dared to say something bad about Pokemon
Where else would we have so much fun if Nintendo life did not post articles like this?, and they can hardly stop posting anything Pokemon sword and shield related just because it will ignite the good/bad debate, if people want to react on every article it's up to them.
@LunarFlame17 Astral Chain is a good game.
@johnvboy I can't blame them for wanting to post SWSH articles seeing the results. At most I could say that they are dismissing all the critism but whatever.
@Supadav03 There was one cutscene with a gym leader in particular that made the no voice acting REALLY noticiable.
Most games out there have a deadline to work to, in this case the holiday season was always going to be key to the games sales, and I never have ever said you or others complaints have no validity, but there will be a lot of people that have no issues with these games and do not feel they have been rushed, it's all down to your own personal opinion and perspective at the end of the day, there is no such thing as a valid argument with these things one way or the other, as from everybody's perspective good or bad their own opinion is valid to themselves.
My personal opinion is the games are fine, they have streamlined the whole experience, which was well overdue, the games visuals are fine and have a really nice art style, they look nothing like the 3DS games in my opinion, yes the animations look the same but that's not the end of the world as the Pokemon themselves look great, the cartoon style is perfect for the game and the audience it's primarily aimed at, do I think the game is perfect?, no there are issues but it's not the total train wreck some are stating.
They are reporting news and facts, all this article says is all the negativity surrounding these titles has not impacted sales, now they have been very careful not to pick a side in this, and did say many people were not happy with these games.
@johnvboy To be fair, this article is not the worse offender. But previously they were clear what side they took.
Another issue I have with this is a lot of the complainers have openly said they will not buy this game, now I do realize they have some concerns, but who knows on actually playing the game they may actually end up having fun with it despite it's flaws, now on the other hand if somebody buys the game and hates it it's a different matter, but still only their own personal opinion.
You do have to realize that despite your and others negativety to the game there were a lot of gamers looking forward to this game, hell even on here we are divided about it, all Nintendo life have done is posted articles, and I think if you think they are taking sides it's more down to your perception of the situation then anything else.
@KingOfTheFools Who is attacking people for buying the game?
@johnvboy It is extremely obvious which side they took. I remember an article where they legit said how people were making complaints even though Nintendolife "said it was a good game".
As if they are the authority on good games.
Dexit is disappointing for sure, but it was inevitable. I'm actually glad all the legendaries were cut, because they offer nothing when it comes to competive. They're either banned so they're useless, or they're allowed and are some of the most unbearably difficult monsters to battle against. The part of Dexit that really stings in my eyes, is cutting out all of the starters. That was a mistake imo.
Aside from that I love the game. I do have criticisms of course, like not having a fun way to level your team to 100. Hyper Training still being inaccessible until level 100 is a bad idea. Mints sounded like a cool idea but are gated with high BP prices. Shiny hunting is still as awful as ever... but aside from these gripes this is still up there with some of my favorite Pokemon games.
@Deege That's something I never understood though. If they weren't balanced, why not just ban them from competitions? Then people who like them can still have them.
Theres only a small percentage of players who are actually into the competitive part of Pokémon.
Never mind dexit - the changes to the Wi-Fi timer totally killed the competitive singles atmosphere. If Game Freak bombs this again, there is no reason to continue buying these games.
@PokemaniacJOK What did they do?
Well this is always going to be subjective, just because a review site likes a game some people do not, does not make them right or wrong, and as I have said many times there would have been a lot of Pokemon fans looking forward to this game despite all the negativity surrounding it.
And who is an authority on games at the end of the day, is it us the consumer or game reviewers , as it's all a personal opinion, game reviewers get paid to rate games, but does that make their judgement any better than someone that spends a considerable amount of time playing them , and why do we always trust a negative review if it supports our argument that a game is bad, and ignore any positive ones as it goes against what we personally believe, same for a games sales, if we hate a particular game and is sells well it does not support our own personal view, so we have to resort to the old lie that people will buy anything, while at the same time ignoring that we ourselves would not buy it.
I can't speak for the person you're referring to, but I know that I don't attack people for liking what they want, nor do I make claims that people will buy anything.
I will say though, that Pokémon is leaving a group behind and to appeal to a bigger market and their games are suffering in quality because of it. They'll still make money, because it's Pokémon, but these games are not as good as they could be if they would just slow down production.
@jowe_gw truth hurts.
@Kalmaro A majority of people who play video games are mostly casuals who just want to play a game and have fun and most of them rarely engage with people on the internet. From a developer's perspective, I think what matters is ''Are players having fun and enjoying the game?''. Judging by the sales and the general reaction I've seen on social media, it seems that most people are enjoying the game.
@Aeleron0X I know, I don't think there's anyone claiming or have claimed that most people aren't enjoying the game.
This was not aimed at you personally, it was just a reaction to your authority on video games remark, as who is an authority when you stand back and look at it, in fact the only opinion that should ever matter to us is our own.
Well "Galenmereth" did post this in answer to my post the games had sold well, now he does not directly say people are not enjoying the game, but as my post said it looked like people were having little issues with the game, hence the sales figures were very good despite all the negativity, then my take on his comment if you read between the lines was that if you were to ask these customers they would have issues, or why even put the enjoyment part into his post.
" People buy games to try them. The sales stats don’t take their enjoyment into account. Since you can’t return played games, there’s no way to gauge how many people actually like them. "
@johnvboy I try not to assume too much from what people are saying so I won't touch that comment too much.
That said we do know that there are people who bought the game and were dissatisfied. We're they s significant amount of people? That depends on how many is 'significant'.
We Know thew will be core fans unhappy, but the suggestion by some that the mass audience are not as demanding would suggest they are happy with their purchase, it surely can't be that the masses will buy and put up with everything because it's the latest Pokemon game, then for us to turn around and say that all these less demanding players have all of a sudden had a change of heart, and then become far more fussy.
@johnvboy That's the thing about assuming, though.
From my point of view, they are just saying that the sells numbers may be partially inflated by people who bought the game, but didn't like it after playing it.
Thus, it's hard to get an accurate number.
So what are we saying here, are the mass Pokemon buying audience less or more demanding than the core fans? as we can't have it both ways, when the initial stories started to show the core fans unhappiness with certain aspects of the new game, the defenders stated they were not in the majority and the mass market would buy the game in droves, then the core fans stated this was because the masses would buy any new mainline Pokemon game no matter how good or bad, it's ludicrous to think that these easily led people have all of a sudden become more demanding.
@johnvboy That's a question best left for Galenmereth see they are the one who made the list. The best we can do is guess at what he meant.
What is clear is that Pokémon has been catering more to the casual crowd for a while now who cares more about playing Pokémon than anything else. Pokémon go doesn't even play like a normal Pokémon game and it's still taking in millions.
Well I know this will not sit well with the core audience, but if you or I were GameFreak would we not make the game for the mass audience at the risk of alienating a much less lucrative fan base.
@johnvboy That's a good question. If it were up to me, I'd focus on my fan base since they got me to where I was. Money is secondary. I still want it so I can keep working but that wouldn't be my main goal.
However, you also have shareholders to consider. That's why I'd rather go independent and make my own stuff.
They core minority has not got GameFreak to where they are, the Vocal core fans have always and will always be in the minority, the mass market younger fans have got GameFreak to their massive game sales, otherwise the developer would not be focusing on them.
This video hits the nail on the head, and it's been like this since the introduction of Pokemon all those years ago, it's just now with the internet the very vocal core minority fans have a platform, but they still fail to see they are only ever talking to people with similar views, while the rest just get on will he latest game and have fun with it.
@johnvboy I'm not sure what you're talking about.
The fans are what got gamefreak started by buying the first games. They aren't a core minority. I'd say everyone who bought the first games and got them going would be considered fans.
Oh wow, that like to dislike ratio on that video, haha.
Even then you would have had core and more casual gamers, I know people hate it when we say kids game, but this series has always catered for that market, now some of those younger gamers have moved on to other things, while the core minorities have not, these are the people with this and other titles, as they feel any Pokemon game should be made to cater to their specific want's and needs, but it never will be as they are in the minority.
No wonder the like to dislike ratio is like that, the people watching will be the core video game fans, who like posting on video game forums and watching video game related stuff on YouTube, the mass market Pokemon buyers will not even realize anybody is having any issues with this game.
But still a little concerning that even with the core obsessives the like to dislike is divided, makes the minority haters even a smaller number of people, let alone finding time to post on the internet or watch video game related Pokemon stuff on YouTube.
Pokemon is overrated and over hyped garbage i wish Pokemon isn't as popular as it is
@johnvboy The way I see it, the people who bought the first game are the fans that got things started. All of the people, not just the ones who bought it and then went to competitions.
This first Gen buyers got word out about how great the game was, then things have cascaded from there. The first Gen buyers are the ones I'd try to throw a bone to.
And gamefreak actually does this. How many different versions of charizard do we have now? Like, four, I think.
The pokemon franchise is a very tough one to keep everyone happy, this is partly down to it's success and how long it's endured as a franchise.
Of course the initial purchasers of the very first game got it started, but I wonder in reality how many of these people are left and still interested in the franchise, and if somebody was say to young and not even born when the first game came came out, but buys from the third of fourth games, they are still fans in my book, but at the end of the day any fan mass or core should only buy if the latest game caters for them.
@johnvboy You'd be surprised how many of the older gamers are playing the games. All my friends still play and were in our 30s. The running joke for a while at competitions was they it was full of older dudes. Plus, gamefreak wouldn't keep throwing starters from older games and referencing it if they didn't think the older gamers cared.
And, yes, people shouldn't buy games they don't want.
I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest that Pokemon and lot's of Nintendo franchises for that matter have older gamers, I am an older Nintendo fan myself.
@johnvboy Then it sounds like you already believe that there's plenty of us out there. It would be nice to have a number though.
I do think there will be many gamers who have grown up with Nintendo, I started with the NES and have had pretty much every console since.
@Kalmaro The game timer for single battles has always been 60 minutes, now for some reason it's changed to 20 minutes? It's unfathomable. People truly thought that Game Freak was paying attention to the competitive scene, but it was all a lie.
@PokemaniacJOK Oh, that's just gross. Pokémon isn't really about making snappy decisions like that. People like to say it's a kids game but it's got a lot of depth. 20 minutes isn't much.
@NoxAeturnus Just because Pokemon Company has a lot of money doesn't automatically mean that they can do whatever they want. After all money and resources are a finite thing. To give you an idea how expensive it is to hire people, the average monthly salary for person working in the game industry is $10,000. If you multiply that by 147 then Pokemon Company is paying $1.47 million a month or $17.64 million a year. That may not sound much but when you consider that Pokemon also has merch, animation, cards, etc and therefore there are people working on those as well, then that money starts to add up real quick. Not to mention that they also have to pay for marketing which is very expensive especially when they have to compete with other brands. Paying for employees salaries and benefits is expensive and it's the sad reason why layoffs are so common in the game industry
@Aeleron0X hiring someone is expensive, but then again, pokémon makes so much money that it's hardly an issue. Not only that but any time you make a game, you're making a gamble. They would have to look at those new people as an investment.
One which I'm sure would pay off handsomely at the end of the day. Look how much Sword and Shield is making even with them not focusing so much on adding in what was in the older games.
@Aeleron0X As of April 2018 it's estimated GF had 143 employees. That's about two-thirds the size of Platinum (224), which is a growing company. You'd think they would have grown beyond the size of Intelligent Systems (151) in the more than 20 years they've been making Pokemon games. Especially considering that during that time Pokemon has grossed close to 100 BILLION dollars and is the highest grossing franchise of all time. There's no excuse.
@NoxAeturnus People tend to misunderstand how budgeting works. So let's learn some business terms shall we? A company has a total amount of expenses that they use per month. This comprises of various things such as rent, taxes, employee salaries, licenses and so on. This is called 'Burn Rate', the rate a company spends each month. When a company is earning money, then that is called 'Income'. If the Income is bigger than the burn rate, then the company is making a 'Profit'. Pokemon Company's revenue was $2.98 billion dollars which is their income or how much money they've made. That sounds like a lot and seems very good. But Pokemon Company's net profit was only $124 million. This means that they've received $2.98 billion but the money they've spent was around $2.856 billion. You can start to see why that what Pokemon Company does becomes very expensive. Again Pokemon is more than just games, there are other media that they do as well
@Aeleron0X So what you're saying is, gamefreak could have ditched little town hero, which flopped, and put all of their resources into Pokémon instead?
That would have fixed the problem since then they could have been pulling from resources they already have.
@Kalmaro You're strawmanning my argument here. I wasn't talking about Little Town Hero, I was talking about how the various different stuff that Pokemon Company does is a lot more expensive than what most people think it is and how by hiring more people can greatly increase the budget and thus making it harder for a company to earn a profit
@Aeleron0X You misunderstand, I'm actually agreeing with you.
What I'm saying is that if money was a concern, then it would have been a good idea not to have Gamefreak split their focus on another game. Then we could have had a more finished product in Sword and Shield.
@Kalmaro Those experimental games were made as a way to help employees gain new experience and help think of new ideas, so they're weren't meant to be taken financially seriously. Most game studios usually do small projects for various reasons. With the case of Town and others, they were most likely made as a way to help the new staff get some practice and get them up to speed
@Aeleron0X Well hold on. You started the response as if you knew but then later you said "most likely".
Do you know for sure if they used that game as training experience?
@Kalmaro There are interviews stating that the reason why they're doing small experimental games is because they want help the staff get new experiences and perspectives. So yes I'm confident in saying that Town was used for training purposes
@Aeleron0X That's interesting, I'll take your word for it since I think I remember hearing something similar.
In any case, I think the biggest problem here wasn't money so much as time. They are being rushed to get a product out and it shows.
@johnvboy Oh god... that video was awful. It is the same as the worse people on the "antiDexit" side but in the complete opposite side. Just saying people opinion don't matter and generalizing to prove his point.
Also saying that GameFreak lieing about that decision is 100% fine because other devs do that too... yeah.
And some of his comments calling people haters just because (like when someone brought up that S&M still had a better launch... which is true) says a lot about how mature he is about this situation. I just can't take his opinion seriously.
@Kalmaro I have nothing against GameFreak creating Little Town Hero. About that game I just think that it needed more time and it was released at the worse possible day. They should have delay it to early next year because it was compleatly overshadowed by SWSH. But I think the Gear Project is a good idea.
I just think games like USUM or even LGPE shouldn't have been made and focus an entire team for 3-4 years into just one big game. Also getting help from teams already experienced in HD development could've been helpful. The transition is not easy.
The guy is just stating facts,the wider Pokemon fans/community do not share the same views as the core minorities, you do not like the video because his position differs from the core fans opinion that everybody else must agree with them, when in fact they don't, he may be a bit blunt (pardon the pun), with his points but we have to at some point take the success of th game into account, even more so when there were those online and on forums stating there was a huge outcry about this game and it would affect sales, I know there are even people on here now suggesting that even though the game has sold well it does not mean people in effect still do not like it, as if the masses who bought the game knew and were aware of the game being bad, but then decided to buy it anyway, this of course makes no sense at all.
@johnvboy I don't like the video because he dismisses opinions and he is being whiny about it. Basically he says that you can't say that Pokemon is doing something bad because is selling therefore your opinion is wrong and irrelevant.
The part that the game is selling because the casual buyers don't care about the same things as the core fans is true. This whole attitute of "the game is selling so shut up"... Doesn't sound that good.
I think it's aimed at the more toxic people on YouTube and forums complaining about the game, as they can be a little over the top at times, I have never said any complaints were not valid as it's someones personal opinion at the end of the day, but that being said I do still feel the mass market buying Pokemon fans have no issues with this game, this point in no way says the concerns of people not being happy are not valid, but another thing I do agree with on the video is a lot of the complainers do seem to feel it's everybody that has reservations about this game, which is just not true.
@johnvboy But he is being toxic while doing that so... I just can't take his opinion seriously at all because of that. Like I said, he is just doing the same thing people complained about the "antiDexit" people but in the opposite side. Generalizing and saying that other people opinion don't matter so they should shut up about it.
Besides, did everyone that bought the game like it and had no reservations on it? That doesn't sound true either.
And, to be honest, I think GameFreak should at least consider those critisms about graphics, animations, post game content and even the National Dex. If they don't it could cause another PR disaster like this again and I don't think anyone wants that.
Sure maybe it is not feasable to continue putting all Pokemons in every future game but... maybe services like Pokemon Home could have a way to transfer Pokemon that are not compatible with SWSH back to their original games to not force people to continue paying for the service or lose their Pokemon forever? Maybe they could do a Pokemon Stadum like game on Switch to connect with Pokemon Home where they could add all the Pokemon over time as more Pokemon games come out?
They can do things to fix their reputation in the Pokemon community even without saying that they will bring the National Dex back in all future games.
@johnvboy "a lot of the complainers do seem to feel it's everybody that has reservations about this game, which is just not true."
That's not true at all though, we never claimed that everyone would have problems with the game or had reservations. In fact, our biggest fear was that everyone would LOVE the game and then Gamefreak would decide to keep being lazy.
Deep down, we always knew that the game would sell well and most of us openly admitted it, usually through clenched teeth.
@jowe_gw Your profile says you are from Spain, and you lack an avatar.
Yeah, I'm sure you are real, lol...
@XCWarrior What does his lack of profile picture have to do with anything?
I do not know how a core minority could ever be seen as a PR disaster, and who knows what GameFreak will take from all this, although I would always expect certain things to improve as time goes by, and it will be the second game for them on better powered hardware than the 3DS.
The way some were talking on YouTube and posting on various forums indicated they were just stating what everybody was thinking.
@XCWarrior ¿Que estas diciendo? ¿Es que un español no puede visitar esta pagina y saber escribir en ingles o que? Menudo idiota estas hecho.
@johnvboy I think "some" is the keyword here. You're talking about a minority of a minority. Not many people who had complaints can make YouTube videos and forums are not a good sample size of what everyone thinks.
Much like how Twitter is not synonymous with what everybody thinks. Otherwise, the fact that #gamefreaklied was trending for a while would have been a bigger deal.
@johnvboy Dude... Please. Even if it was a minority since it was mainly coming from hardcore Pokemon fans it was a PR disaster still.
And, yes, I still think GameFreak should learn from all the critism they recieved.
Totally agree with you on that, but my point has always been what PR damage if any has affected the purchasing decisions of the wider market Pokemon fans, now at the moment I would say little to none, of course after the holiday period finishes and the sales figures roll in we will not know for sure.
@johnvboy Would you be okay with us saying that this was a PR disaster that ultimately did not cause a problem in sales?
I am not bothered if you say it's a PR disaster, to the core fans it was probably much more than that.
@johnvboy It was a PR disaster. No matter how much you repeat that the fans are a minority. It was. And not taking any of the critism they received seriously would be a mistake to be honest.
Nintendolife really do have their big pointy poking stick out for 2020, we've had a fragile console/joycon article, an online article, a Pokemon article and Kamiya slating the UI. They're really trying to disturb that hornet nest at the mo...
@Kalmaro Oh yeah, ideally Gamefreak could have just banned ALL Legendaries and Ultra Beasts from online ranked battles and everything would have been much more balanced.
The only reason I was "happy" they were cut is because we knew the Dex cut was happenjng regardless, and I was hoping they wouldn't cut a bunch of Pokemon AND leave all the legendaries in.
I am disappointed that most of the starters were cut, but I'm still having fun with the game even 100 hours in, so I can't be too upset.
I expected a bigger talk about how the game was recieved ever since it was announced. On February, the game's announcement was met with mostly positive reception and only had some early doubts based on how similar it looked to Sun & Moon.
Then the 5th June Direct game and boy... it surely was a golden day for Pokémon: the Wild Area, new Pokemon, legendaries, a new mechanic, new characters that would become fan-favourites... the entire Direct undoubtely felt like the best way to start the countdown for the first new-gen mainline games on Switch.
But the week after, E3 came...
..and everything changed. Every single announcement after that felt underhyped and while still well-recieved, couldn't live up to the excitement that surrpunded the pre-launch era of Sun & Moon.
Speaking about the game, I agree that it could've been better, but it also feels like the excellent beginning for this generation which just began. I'm not 100% sure if a Pokemon game will come out this year, but I know approximately 75% of the missing Pokémon come from Kanto - Sinnoh regions
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