Uncensored Version Of Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Becomes Best-Selling Wii U Game On Amazon Japan

Now if they could only get that over to the Switch then the sky is the limit.......

The Japanese take their 2D waifus seriously.
Would be funny if an uncensored version comes out for Switch later in a patch.

I didn't even realize it was censored when I played the original. The Switch has The Witcher 3, not sure why even censor this any more.

Hopefully Nintendo somehow gets the message that people want the uncensored version.

Hopefully they will address all of this in a software update for Tokyo Mirage Sessions: #FE Encore.

Fans letting their wallets speak.

@Agramonte
It also has the Bayonetta games which Nintendo thought so high of that they included some Nintendo costumes and put her in Smash, I’d guess the department that handles FE in the west is pretty chip on shoulder nutty and somehow convinced them to use the this version for the Switch port.

This is gold, all they needed to do for sell more Wii U games was to censor a Switch release XD;;;

Still this is somehow bad, I can see the upcoming Encore selling... I'm not gonna say poorly, but average, and sadly there is no way they'll understand it was all for this bad marketing and censorship; they'll just assume there is no interest in TMS and leave this wonderful fresh IP in the dust...

Ok this is getting ridiculous.

Nintendo is back to censoring stuff? I thought we are over that already....

It only needed to sell 40 copies to jump to number 1

@Daldra for real or is that a joke? (At this point I wouldn’t be to surprise if that is true....)

@BakaKnight I dunno if a one-off crossover spin-off really counts as a franchise...

This is an extremely vocal minority voicing their opinions. Most people who buy this won't even be aware of there being an issue at all, and most of those who do won't care. I know I'll be in the latter camp. The game is just too good to skip out on for something as trivial as this.

@NicolausCamp Censorship is trivial? Huh... tell me that when they censor large portions of your favourite game, book, film, series etc because it 'offends' someone else. I'm sure you won't have a problem with that though.

Anyway to me they are only censoring out of cheapness. Porting a game that severely under performed while putting back in the content (a lot of content at that) that was censored would cost quite a bit and they probably don't think it's worth the effort so 'treat' everyone to western (American) approved (by a vocal minority who never bought the game anyway) version. Sad but unsurprising.

People getting thirsty for hentai

@NicolausCamp This is a niche title to begin with.

@somebread I admittely used the wrong word, "IP" fits better than "franchise".

But honestly I probably messed up cause I enjoyed TMS enough that I'm already foolishy dreaming to see a sequel and more one day.

Not only that, the Special Edition is ranked #4.

So this is like when george lucas released the star wars special editions on VHS and the laser disc originals sold like crazy suddenly?

Great. People that want that can buy it. Maybe they'll leave coverage of the remake alone now so those who are actually interested in the game and will BUY it, can keep up with the news without incessant whining from people who have said that they won't buy it and don't want it. TMS flopped because it was a Wii U Game. The switch is freaking massive in comparison to the Wii U. The SMT franchise keeps growing with Persona 5 blowing the series up to insane levels of recognition and Fire Emblem just had a massive game launch in Three Houses. Cross promotional outfits (already seen a Three Houses one in the trailer) and such will help sell this game even more by connecting the game to the big hits they've known recently. If it is marketed well this game won't flop, regardless of some angry Japanese players and angry Americans pretending they were going to buy the game anyway on twitter.

The majority of the Switch's demographic isn't paying close attention to One Angry Gamer. They're paying attention to Nintendo's advertising and the game itself.

Edit: can anyone actually link to me angry Japanese players? I've only seen Americans angry about the subject which suggests to me that the Amazon Japan sales are Americans ordering from there simply because that's the only place it's available. Plus, it wouldn't take many sales for a Wii U game in the end of 2019 to become the best selling Wii U game right now. This is grasping at straws.

@BarefootBowser its nintendolife trying to stoke the flames to keep the drama going for clicks because 'censorship' drama always ends up being extremely highly commented on on this site because a crap tonne of viewers here seem to only want a game if they can look at tits.

I still find to this day Tokyo Mirage Sessions to be a wonderful name.
Never got around to play it on Wii U, I’ll certainly buy it on Switch (even though I kinda loathe J-Pop and I’m uninterested in FE), simply because I need my Shin Megami Tensei fix and Atlus STILL hasn’t revealed SMTV after all this time.
Just give me SMTV, pleeeeeaaaase 😭

@BadEndBrit Love the call out to the 'vocal minority who didnt buy the game anyway' when 1. you have no evidence of who did and didnt buy the game and for what reasons, 2. the game was changed before there was any type of backlash from any 'vocal minority', and 3. calling people out as 'vocal minorities who dont buy game' is hilarious considering the vocal minority right now who are furiously typing into their keyboards that they're cancelling their pre orders because of this. Funny that the 'majority' never seems to buy games either.

@clvr SMTV is sorely needed. I'm confident it will be great once it comes.

....Understandable when you change or flat-out REMOVE stuff in your game...of course people want the better version.

Need dem tiddies.

By the way, this kind of thing is called “edited,” not “censored,” lmao!

@PBandSmelly yes, that will show the evil stinky nintendo who won't let me play with my anime tiddies!

So that's like, what, 5 more copies than usual?

@AnnoyingFrenzy Exactly. Non-news simply to pander to the anti-SJW crowd who can't go two minutes without an invented controversy.

"Boo hoo, big bad Nintendo won't let me see the cleavage of a fictional high schooler" please just go play senran kagura if you're horny, stop whining

People are really this sad to see some anime boobs? Like, look, I love me some fan service... but...seriously?

@PBandSmelly
It will hopefully help somewhat showing Nintendo that people want the uncensored version.

@Peterjr1 some Japanese people has atleast asked for refunds for their preorder
https://mobile.twitter.com/htmk73/status/1184861657106800640

Also people are just as free to complain about the censorship in this game if they want to.

@m8e3point1415 what?

@m8e3point1415 my lord, I know about all the cut content, the hot springs dlc not getting in, and clothes being more covered up. It's not a big deal at all for a game to show less skin, and a dlc being cut is better than entire sections of the game being cut, the game was still fun, and it will still be fun on the switch, so don't go claiming I don't know the situation

@m8e3point1415 ok then tell me what all there is if I'm missing some huge crucial thing

@m8e3point1415 ok I see your point and I know what you're talking about but again I don't find it that big of a deal, I still find it to be a pretty good game with unnecessary drama, nothing more nothing less

@m8e3point1415 Not gonna lie, that doesn't seem that bad to me.

@Agramonte it's mainly because games like this and 90% of other anime games have their characters aged around 16 maybe younger so is seen in a negative way in the west

I still have the wii u version and was hoping the switch version was going to be the uncensored version so I can play chapter 2 the way it was meant to be played and not the version the localization team gave us. Since it just going to be the same I will be skipping the switch version.

i hate censorship like anyone else in the gaming community but lets not accuse nintendo going back on their word about not censoring switch games which they havent besides this port of tokyo mirage sessions which is the only acception but still getting upset over one game is just dumb.

@RiasGremory Unless I remember wrong, what they said was they don't force 3rd parties to censor the games, as long as the agerating companies has accepted them, Nintendo will accept them.

@Trajan It is, but with Fire Emblem Heroes and Three Houses raking in cash and selling well, Im sure a whole lot of people who just discovered the Fire Emblem series will give this a chance now, even though it has almost nothing to do with either FE or SMT in the grand scheme of things.

@BadEndBrit I don't view this so much as censorship as replacing content. Do I think it's silly that they covered a monster's cleavage with smoke, that they changed revealing costumes to more clothed ones etc? Yes, I do, but these are compromises that I am perfectly fine with that don't affect my enjoyment of the game and I would think most people will agree.
If something I would react on negatively would be cut from a game, well, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

If whinners wanting censorship should do as another said:

@kenyowa ""Boo hoo, big bad Nintendo won't let me see the cleavage of a fictional high schooler" please just go play senran kagura if you're horny, stop whining"

There are plenty of other Switch female fighting game like:
Dead or Alive Xtreme 3: Scarlet
Talk about breast and skin flick.

This is why those whom try to but loose the argument when this is pointed out. Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Encore is mild compared to that game.

@tobibra nintendo wants less censorship games on the switch points to 3rd party games even some nintendo games are uncensored like xenoblade 1 swimsuit outfits,xenoblade 2 and hyrule warriors cia cleavage it just depends which games like tokyo mirage are being censored for a reason not saying its wrong but depends on the ip.

Stuff like this is why Treehouse needs to be shut down.

I don’t see why Nintendo doesn’t just add an “how old are you” option in games and base censorship on that or have parental controls dictate which version will play on the console.

@RiasGremory "games like tokyo mirage are being censored for a reason not saying its wrong but depends on the ip."
snippet....
their own ip on WiiU has no censor so why now when they clearly are backtracking after buying fans outcry means they clearly didn't think this through. Those skins flicks are minor compared to current offerings that do far more expelsive fan services. You got war games and GTA and the likes and this one is worse then those - there some missing reality checks here.

@bert0503 I think there is already ratings on the games already. And that should be what decides not oh let's Censor this because we think the buyers can't decide for themselves. I can say kids/teens can find more skin flicks of Real People online without having to turn to games for this.

@kenyowa The censorship was much stupider than that fyi

They added two bras to a female character and censored a flipping WEDDING DRESS by adding padding to the chest area

Like you have to admit that's stupid as hell
We're not driven by our need to see tits every day dude

The censorship in the Western release of the Wii U version was for very mild things that didn't even need to be censored.

@SwitchForce Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 wasn't even released in the west due to "cultural differences" and "lack of interest" though, so that was a bad example.

@AnnoyingFrenzy one doesn't realize you can import. That isn't a bad example but one of many that shows more and gives more. So to say not release is akin to minimizing response as that will stop them from getting it. As long as you have a CC or Debit Card you can buy and import. Nothing is stopping that.

@BlueBlur101 So if it was mild pointless censorship that changes nothing, why the outcry. Pull out the actual arguments, like the changed chapter and story.

@SwitchForce So buy the Japanese Wii U version. Problem solved. Also, I have no idea what you are trying to say in your second sentence.

Best-selling Wii U game on Amazon in 2019 = 12 copies sold

For many the frustration is not about wanting to see more skin. The gravure model chapter was altered in a fairly lame way, rendering that part of the story almost nonsensical — also, where the costumes were altered they usually looked uninspired and dull. The game was still great fun though, and I will likely get it again for Switch. I'm sure someone will provide an unofficial patch if Nintendo fails to.

I have no idea why this game was censored in the first place for a game this niche.

@SwitchForce There are few other problems with the Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 argument as well.
1. Since it wasn't ever released in the west, we don't know if it would have gone through any localization like TMS.
2. Since you already import games like DoAX3, you could import the non-censored TMS. A stronger argument would have been with a game that's been or is being released in the west.
3. Dead or Alive Xtreme is made FOR the boobs and risque camera shots, that is the basis of its appeal. TMS's draw is not that, so the comparison is weak.

@SwitchForce the wii u version in the west was censored.

State of this

@AnnoyingFrenzy I don't feel the need to address the story related stuff because the censorship stuff kinda ends up affecting the way the story was localized here?

Also the censorship stuff is a very valid argument. It is an actual instance of backwards-decision making amongst the localization team, like a boss having her breasts obscured in a cutscene but not during actual gameplay, some of the non-human characters like creatures being given shorts and tanktops to mask their designs, and the sexy modelling dungeon being reworked into a dungeon you traverse while wearing regular civilian clothing, everyone having their age shifted up by one year, and the changes to dialogue that ensued, and the hundreds of lines that were re-recorded to reflect that change, etc.

@RiasGremory What I ment in my comment to you is that while I think this censorship is wrong, I don't think Nintendo went back on their word. While I don't think being upset about the censorship of this game is dumb, I think I otherwise agree with you ^_^

The best course of action is to sell the game in its current state but offer a free uncensored patch day one. That way both camps of people can be pleased by the same product without anyone having to compromise their tastes. Options are the best policy, especially when they're free to the consumer.

Okay so I went and found a video detailing all the things that were censored and I thought I'll just quickly lay out my thoughts on the big ones.
1. The clothing (sans that one chapter)
So if the only censorship that happened was the changing of the characters clothing to be less revealing, there should have been no backlash at all I feel. The only clothing change that I question is the wedding dress, which was hideous in the change. All others were just fine, in fact I liked on of the outfits better with the change than without it.

2. The modeling chapter
This is a big one and I see why people cared so much about it. She was basically a model designed to be erotic and the chapter was her getting over her fear or anxiety about it. They changed it so that it was generic modeling instead of swimsuit modeling/ underwear modeling with all the necessary clothes changes. While the former is a stronger narrative sure, I personally don't see it as a HUGE problem, as you know what? I like the clothing from the censored version better. She looked really cute in the new outfit, way better than in a boring bikini.

3. That boss with the boobs.
eh? This one doesn't make sense to me to change or get upset about, considering that they are still clearly visible outside of the cutscene.

4. The extra recorded dialogue
Really this doesn't affect us in any way, its Atlus and Nintendo's money they do what they want with it.

5. Age changes
Please tell me nobody got upset over this. This doesn't matter

6. The DLC
Now THIS IS BIG. I can legitimately get upset over this being cut. This was an entire story section that was never released outside of Japan for no reason at all. If there was a reason to be upset, it would be about the Hot Springs DLC

@Xaessya That would be great.

@BlueBlur101 So you can read my above comment but Ill give you the TL/DR

I agree that the censorship was pointless in a lot of places in the game, but if Nintendo or Atlus wanted to waste money doing some pointless aethetic changes in localisation that don't change ones enjoyment of the game (like, 10 seconds of smoke on a bosses cleavage whoop de doo), it shouldn't matter. It's the story chapter and DLC where the real meat of the matter is.

@tobibra yeah but apparently some people around the internet are taking this so seriously thinking nintendo is going back the censor route which they are not its mind boggling why their getting so up and arms over one game port keeping the same censorship from the original wii u version.

For the record, I also preferred Maiden of Blackwater's Zero Suit Samus and Zelda outfits to the skimpy outfit. Yes, I know there is story reason to the skimpy outfit, but the Samus outfit was just so much cooler.

@AnnoyingFrenzy I never bought the DLC so I can't really comment on what they did there but the story chapter stuff was also ridiculous

@playstation_king yeah, I thought of that after. I guess the entire "underage" thing can be a problem here.

@BlueBlur101 If you want I can fill you in on the DLC. The story chapter was ridiculous anybody complaining about the story chapter changes has my sympathy, I just don't personally care about it as I like the changes better than the original in this case. It's the other aesthetic changes I listed that I don't sympathize with (except the wedding dress).

Google your Anime tiddies, and stop worrying about made-up censorship,folks. This game has been edited, not censored. Probably for good reason, considering how many people are knee-jerking about it.

@NicolausCamp The reason this whole censoring garbage even started was BECAUSE of an extremely vocal minority

@Mr_Muscle yes, because removing an entire storyline in only certain areas of the world is just editing. And I don't know why ppl don't understand this, but the majority of those upset over this are not upset cuz of tiddies, but because we know that once censorship starts, no matter what the censorship is, it tends to grow and spread even more until everything is banned except candy crush.

@BKPyrexx you had a great point until you went down the slippery slope.

The pro-censorship stuff in this comments section is gross.

I am extremely anti-censorship, but something like this - I could literally care less. I want a game for the quality of gameplay. This is hardly intellectual property, and I'd certainly be more upset if certain topics were censored in games, as music very nearly was by the PMRC in the 80s.

Sure, vote with your wallets. I don't see a lot of censorship in the video game industry personally, in the same way that I don't see a lot of censorship in the broadcast industry, even though people are constantly claiming there is.

If you want to be worried about censorship, I think it more important to be worrying about facts and statistics not being included in the vast majority of journalistic reporting these days. I understand being disappointed with the decisions made with this game, but I really don't see it as the drastic measure of censorship people are professing it to be. This is a very banal way of being concerned with censorship.

Like, if you're so concerned with censorship, are you willing to call all of the local schools in your town and make sure they don't have certain novels banned? That would be pretty cool!

Ahh, JRPGs in Japan, where they can be priced used like out of date FIFA games years after release.

Already took it off my Amazon preorder last week. I'll buy the eventual (and it'll probably happen) SEA English version of the revised Japanese release.

Probably not the popular opinion here. But if the characters are under 18 in the game, then they should be censored. People should ashamed of wanting to see adolescents sexualized. Now if the game characters are over 18 in games, then I am against censorship. I am all for Witcher 3 adult themes because the characters are over 18. Nintendo and Atlus made the right call here.

@Dman10

They were aged up in the western release because you can do that sort of thing with FICTIONAL characters

@Mr_Muscle

Exactly! I don't get why people are so upset, Blizzard just edited Blitzchung's earnings smh

@Madder128 Hentais an overstatement. It's, like, cartoon underwear and bikinis. In some cases, XBC2 had skimpier outfits than the ones that were censored. That's what makes it weird.

@Dman10 Eh, cultural differences there. 18 is accepted as the international thing pretty much because of America and, honestly, porn being a major cultural export (South Korea has K Pop, the US has McDonald's, rap, and porn), but it's not even the age of consent in even most US states let alone countries. It is in California and that is why people think it's like a universal constant when it's not. If porn was made in Hawaii instead of Cali, then you'd be saying the characters have to be aged to 16 instead because thats a vastly more commonly used age.

Fun fact: the age of consent is 13 in Japan, where it's the lowest age of consent of any developed country. That's why there is this always this dissonance (among other reasons). Though that's just for establishing sex crimes and not things like marriage or even relationships. It's actually super Japanese in that it's much more stratified and complicated than it has to be

Like others have pointed out, making the top Wii U title in 2019 isn't that great a feat, especially if the bulk of the orders are protest orders from Westerners. But I guess the point is to keep the comment wars going, so * shrugs* I guess it's good enough for that.

@BLD Might want to edit your comment to sound a little more coherent.

@BKPyrexx Better write to your representative/government/whatever and see if they care. Complaining about it here won't change the outcome lol.

If only people would always get the original Wii U version over the horrible Switch port for any game, now that would make sense.

I'm quoting a friend from another forum that has a rather sane view on this mess:

"...I'm ok with people being mad about the changes made to this game, but calling it "censorship" when the creators are the ones making the alterations, by their own choice, it is NOT censorship.

Censorship is what happens in North Korea. Censorship is when a regulatory group stipulates that something needs to be bleeped or blurred. Censorship is not altering your own work because you feel it is more marketable."

Get a grip, NL, please.

SMTFE sells 4 copies to be no 1 on the Wii U chart.

This is not a story.

@Xansies haha yeah it's just a joke. I just found it amusing people were willing to go to them lengths to see animated characters in racey underwear.

I understand the fuss in Japan, but this is a non-issue for western players. The original western release was edited - questionable at the time, it appears, but it’s not like they cut the game a second time for Switch in the West - it’s just a tarted up port of the same game. Why would Atlus waste resources on going back to relocalise the cut content today?

The best selling Wii-U game in late 2019? Wow, they must've sold, like, at least 3 copies to achieve that!

Cya
Raziel-chan

@Xansies That's incorrect. The national minimum is 13 but all areas of Japan have it set above that. In practice the age of consent varies between 16-18. In Japan being a pedophile is still being a pedophile and 'lolicon' is their direct equivalent of pedophile. Lots of otakus and other sorts on the internet often distort facts about Japan to feel better about using Japanese media as an outlet for their pedophilia and they've helped feed this massive misconception about Japanese culture.

Edit: TWO areas of Japan have the age of consent at 13. The rest have it at 16-18. America's national minimum age of consent is 12 which is below that of Japan but you don't see Americans using that to justify things because it isn't the age of consent in practice.

@Peterjr1 "Edit: TWO areas of Japan have the age of consent at 13. The rest have it at 16-18. America's national minimum age of consent is 12 which is below that of Japan but you don't see American's using that to justify things because it isn't the age of consent in practice."
PushBack: have you heard white american convicted Pedophile have claimed consent for boys/girls under 14 as consent. So not sure where you reading this but I've seen them used this line plenty of time.

@SwitchForce Source and what was decided? If the state has its own age of consent (all of them do) and it's above 12 (all of them are) then their claim would be without legal ground. You said in your own comment that 18 is considered a universal norm outside of Japan because 13 is normal in Japan which is demonstrably false.

Never knew I was playing a censored version and I really dont care.

What I do care about tho, are the extremely tedious dungeons and almost all of the sidequest are so incredibly cringy, I really couldn't get myself to finish the game.

@Tantani Xenoblade Chronicles 2 was heavily censored. Most people just didn't notice because they didn't really touch the fanservice and it was a worldwide release so there wasn't months to look over the Japanese script.

@Orpheus79V wat was censored in xenoblade 2 i pray to ask cause they allowed the hot spring scene,bed scene with mythra and rex,scantly outfits,and dirty jokes so nothing was censored in that game.

All references to Christianity are gone, meaning everything involving indol and "the architect" got censored. Sheba was entirely changed from trying to build a brothel to house her harem to a queeny western valley girl stereotype looking to build a mansion and make an entourage with her lesbianism reduced to one line, multiple jokes were removed, (also memes all over the place but that isn't really censorship, just obnoxious localisation).

There's more than that, a lot of which is covered in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M9xxoAQD5w

@Orpheus79V Just proves that people only care about censorship around here when it's the boobies

@Peterjr1 And you think "sex" in the media, online, magazines don't sell or run the world? That some view going here. The amount scenes consider to much in the game is far minor then what one can see in ads magazines and others depicting younger female bodies yet they don't get censored. That's the point missed a double standard is happening here.

It might just be because some of the characters are considered minors, and some countries might have laws against it.

But most of it felt hacked on, and rushed. If they really want to sell this game they need to fix that.

The third dungeon especially needs fixing. If they had the courage, they'd redo it completely with a stronger arc for Tsubasa, since either versions are bad.

@Peterjr1 Excuse me? if there is anyone causing controversy, it is the SJWs.

I'm pro-censorship myself, but not all censorship is equal, this kind of censorship is stupid and unnecessary and only makes censorship look stupid and silly in general.

SJWs dont know right from wrong. They censor that which does not need to be censored, then they champion and promote and encourage all the evils and perversions that should be censored, they even peddle their garbage to children. these people have no business making games or anything else for that matter.

@BlackTalon2 Already addressed your incoherent points in a different comment.

Found some sorta special edition in Japan last year for $20

Dunno why I didn't buy it ree

@Agramonte I realize it's ratings board related...and a localization issue with the concept of gravure gone really really wrong. But it's true... "We don't want to confront the west with the idea of risque modeling. Here's some full-on nudity in the mean-time!"

You'd think it would be easy with already having the assets out there, to either swap character models for the uncensored version or maybe even as a peace sign offer an uncensored patch for those that want it the original way.

People take the whole notion of "there is virtue in standing on principle" ...

a) far, far, far too serious,
b) they also fail to understand basic historical lessons on the birth of extremism and zealotry
and c) continuously show a horrific lack of intellectual courage to 1. think for themselves, 2. thereby question believes/traditions and ideas and 3. ultimately reassess priorities, strategies and worldviews.

In other word, a bunch of us are just flat-out stuck. It's funny when it comes to affairs like this, but on a whole world of other topics, these - quite literally - unenlightend fools are ballsy enough to drag everyone else down with them, with their self-imposed ignorance, and they do so mocking the rest of us for a lack ... of "values", "identity" and "principle".

We ought to have a scale of like "first world problems", like 1-10 and we ought to find a consensus, that beyond a certain threshold, like a 7 or so, it's no longer funny to take stuff seriously.
You can do as you please, for sure, but it gotta be okay for everyone else to treat you like the 'dude' at every the party, who time and time again, just can't hold their liquor.
I'm just saying this, because even within the whole realm of videogames, they are are whole host of much more interesting, meaningful and consequential issues than this.

Wouldve rather Nintendo give Monolith-soft the money to port Xenoblade X than let Atlus port this crap over, no offense to the developers and people who like this game but why get this over Fire Emblem 3 houses?

@Xansies " because of America and, honestly, porn being a major cultural export (South Korea has K Pop, the US has McDonald's, rap, and porn)"

I read that a few times, and I'm not sure if that comes across as anti-American, or jingoistic.

@Ralek85 Your statement is sensible, however, I'd offer a contrary thought that those who so strongly feel people should not hold to their traditions/values/virtues regardless of the lack of importance placed upon holding such values by the observer, is similarly stuck, and that within the context of the birth of extremism and zealotry, it often forms when people holding such traditions and values are, in reality or perception, marginalized or actively aggrieved by such opponents.

It may be a trivial issue to you, but to those you may oppose may not feel it equally trivial. To challenge or belittle the validity of their tradition is to encourage them to protect it ever more diligently, leading to the very context you sought to avoid.

Of course I happen to disagree with what they did to TMS #FE, and the fact none of it was necessary to begin with for this title even if it is to pander to vocal factions.... But, still, I cringe whenever I see anyone dismiss values, traditions, and views that don't match this century's "enlightened thought." It wasn't so many centuries ago that adhering entirely to the Roman Catholic Church was the only acceptable behavior of the enlightened. It's a thinly veiled statement of "my values are superior to yours because I am more intelligent and aware of the current culture than you are", which is more a haughty stance than an enlightened one.

@Big-Pepsi Why not both? They aren't mutually exclusive.

@NEStalgia And a side order of Prostitution and a bunch of nude sexual encounters that are literally part of the story line... 🙄

Marble to Polygons... At least FE still survives as a game worth playing - even after a few fig leaves later.

@Peterjr1 incoherent only to those who have eyes but refuse to see.

@AnnoyingFrenzy Because in my opinion, Xenoblade X is just a better investment, I mean it's more memorable than Tokyo Mirage sessions, has better reviews, better gameplay, better story, and hours upon hours of more content than Mirage.

There's also little to no censorship, the only thing that'll get people hot and bothered is the boob sliders and they didn't even affect the body that much, you could probably get as big as a C-cup, but I always go a guy.

It's just a better investment all around.

@NEStalgia That's a fair point, but I do think it is based in a misunderstanding. You all-in-all basically argue against one tradition over another, like I declare my tradition as superior by some "objective" measure to yours, and then go on to diminish, marginalize, surpress or even eradicate that other tradition, either by way of its ideals (outlawing, persecution or such) or by downright eradicating those individuals who hold those traditions/believes/values - horrible, but proven by history.

That's not my point though, and your example of the "Enlightenment" and the Church are good ones to illustrate that. Even the fathers of enlightenment were no strangers to racism, sexism or obviously Speciesism (like I wager 99% of folks still today) + other 'isms and some of them were at best "problematic" when it comes to any modern & western idea of Democrary (just look as Rousseau for instance).

When I would talk about being enlightend, I would decidely not refer to their tradition, belief or legacy, but their process. I don't understand "right" or "true" as something that can be told, learned or perpetuated by belief, religion, culture, philisophy, virtues, values or such, but that which springs from one's ability of understanding or verification, either in the object itself, or in the explanation/argument of the person, who does the understanding or verification in the 1st place (what we today would refer to an an expert or "scientist" - meaning I will not do near-zero-Kelvin experiments myself, but I be made to understand the process, the results and the implications, by one who does).

We have the capacity for critical thought and we thus have a responsibility to use that capacity to the best of our ability. Someone may convince me yet, that their hanging onto a particular value or tradition etc. is not just a short-cut, pure convenience or even an early from of extremism or zealotry ... yet because so far, I have not really be convinced by anyone, that they just happened to come to the same conclusion as a (on average und roundabout) 2000 year old book (for instance), after prolonged phases of independent critical thought on their own part. I would even argue, that having exposed to "the book", creates a bias that is incredibly hard to overcome.

It's not just the book though. Science is on a basic level the same. We know clearly understand, that we were all thought a very narrow, and objectively indefensible and unreasonable concept of "intelligence" in school, just as there is no way from pretending that we are not all suffering from "presentism" of some form, as well as an incredible "eurocentric" bias in our general worldview (beginning but not ending from the way we view the world through a objectively misrepresentative form of map, aka the mercator projection), to name just a handful of aspects.

Again, we hold these things as a form of broadly agreed upon knowledge, something we pride ourselves in actually as being "educated", "learned" and thus "enlightend" ( in this modern sense). Yet ... we aren't not by any meaning of the word aimed and a progression of our understanding of the world and each other.

And yes, I agree herein lies the basic truth imho of what you rightfully called out as the zealotry of the "enlightend". The Nazi had a "scientifc" cause for their actions, as did and do the communist, as they feel that they have discovered the "scientific" laws of history by way of economics - aka the history of the world, is the history a class struggle, which will and must end in communism (without much specifics as to what actually will be, but anyways ...^^).

But the problem remains the same: These people are stuck. They accepted or marginally adapted those intellectual traditions they were presented with. They never really tried to falsify them, to finally fall back on Popper here.

Maybe that is the easiest way to describe my issue then: Stuck are those, that are unable or unwilling to seek falsification of that which they hold dear or hold to be true.

It is really, really understandable, and to a degree, I would suggest, humbly so, if I may say so myself, we are ALL without exception guilty of this, but this is a case of guilt by degrees, and unfortunately those degrees matter a whole lot. Experience tells me, and I am willing to be proven wrong here, that someone who is unwilling or unable to challenge minor misunderstandings of the the world, will find themselves more often than not unwilling or unable to challenge major misunderstandings.

That's why politics still kinda works. Your start out with something "minor", like being an oldschool chauvinist, strongly oversimplifying here, but to challenge that view would be tough, so you don't do it. Suddenly, you are presented with a much tougher challenge, that there is something like man-made climate change. That challenge would have a lot more significant ramifications for your generall understanding of the world and your role within that the mere chauvinism you stood by for 40 years...
It's not impossibel, but in my mind unlikely that you duck away from the previous challenge about chauvinism, but are ready and good to actually engage with climate change.

Again, there are surely plenty of exceptions, but as a general rule of thumb, the unwillingess to inability to confront a minor challenge will translate to the same negative predisposition to major challenges.

It also helps understand Trump and his likes alot better. Being constantly challenged and told "you're wrong, oldtimer" and maybe even marginalized (real or imagined) and belittled by the "youngers" and swaths of the media, will make turn you from a defensive traditionalist, quite likely, into an aggressive one.

That's not making excuses for anyone. I myself have been wrong plenty of times. I do not like having that pointed out to me. I do not like to have to face my own biases and misunderstandings and love for old truths, but that's really also what it means to be "mature".

Which would lead into another essay-like rambling of mine on the matter of media/pop culture criticism and "maturity" in the context of movies, games, comics and so on and so forth and how "sex", "violence" etc. should not enter into the consideration. That's for another day though, even if it would not be entirely out of place when we are talking TMS#FE ...

@Ralek85 Once more you have demonstrated yourself as the one and only person on the entire Internet capable of unseating me from the throne of text wall champion.

I cede my crown to you.

As always, an excellent well thought out response, that I'm replying to say that my intention is to reply to, but I know I will probably never have the time and probably not end up doing so. We could keep these conversations going as a full-time job, if only we were able to find someone willing to fund it

@Big-Pepsi That doesn't change the fact that Xenoblade Chronicles X is not happening right now, so It's a little hard to support its porting if its, you know, not being ported. From my perspective, this has less to do with Xenoblade Chronicles X and more to do with you just not wanting to support Tokyo Mirage Sessions, which is fair, but your initial statement makes little sense since, again, XBCX is not a thing right now.

@AnnoyingFrenzy But XBCX port can be a thing, more people want XBCX than Mirage. My comment doesn't make sense because a port literally almost no-one wanted is coming to the switch, but not XBCX? Bloody hell, sorry for offending you.

@Big-Pepsi I misread your first comment, my bad. I'm not offended I was just curious as to why Xenoblade Chronicles X would be brought into this conversation when A) Nintendo probably doesn't give only Atlus or only Monolith soft money to port games, they can give both developers money to port the games at the same time and B) Monolithsoft is currently enhancing a game with "better reviews, better gameplay, better story, and hours upon hours of more content than Mirage and little to no censorship" already. Hell, even better reviews and (from what I've seen from fans online) better gameplay and story than even X!

@NEStalgia I really appreciate this kind of back-and-forth. I actually ran into that very same problem in real-life, well sort of: had to "Switch" ^^ careers, since as it turns out, most of us can't actually make a decent living with job security just with thinking, arguing, debatting and writing etc. - sadly!

Also, this keeps me more-or-less fluid in English, which is another aspect I'm being 'starved' of these days (academics does have its upsides compared to civil service in that regard ^^). I'm actually thinking of doing more online gaming, just to get a chance to keep my speaking proficiency up or at least keeping it from utterly declining. Maybe finding a cool Discord chan might be a better idea though ... something I can log in and out of at my leisure. We'll see, for now, this kinda stuff gotta do the trick!

Also, no worries about "replies". It's nice enough to know someone took the time to go through my ramblings and in turn appreciates the effort. I dunno, but I feel the general attention span has gone way down. Yes, a comment may be long, true, but it still mostly takes mere minutes to read. Everything now has to be digestible in 30 seconds or less it seems. That's hardly a way to really talk about anything outside of ... dunno, the weather may be.
Just a weird time to be alive. The easier information is to access, the more misinformation spreads. The easier communication gets, the less is actually communicated. More paradoxes alright (too bad Sir Popper is already dead and buried Oo) ...

Very funny. That's what you get when you sensor!

Ah, I love posting from the Future now that the Switch version has flopped. You censor your games, they will flop. Even on a system with a massive install base.

Now if only Nintendo would just admit they are wrong and uncensor the game.