There's Plenty Of Retail Opportunity For Third Parties On Switch, Says Sold Out Boss

I've never heard of Sold Out before. Yes I've heard of Overcooked and Worms. This is more about indies than big 3rd parties. I was talking about Capcom earlier and how they've done alright on Switch but are still reluctant to show any real commitment.

Capcom Made A Lot Of Money Recently And Two Switch Games Helped
_{The publisher calls out Monster Hunter XX and Ultra Street Fighter II as performing well during the last quarter.}

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/capcom-made-a-lot-of-money-recently-and-two-switch/1100-6454691/

And as the article concludes they mention EA, another 3rd party that seemingly aren't bothered with supporting the Switch. They probably think this success will be short lived and that any success will mainly center around Nintendo's 1st party efforts.

At this rate, it's possible. Love that tag line to the article lol

Being a Switch owner, I really hope that the increases keep coming as far as physical releases go. Even games like WWE and LA Noire, which require some downloads are welcomed as physical releases. It keeps me from having to download the entire game. Every little bit helps.

Shouldn't it be EA and Capcom

Anyways, this sounds interesting. First I heard of Sold Out though.

Given the UK has one major game store and dedicates half a mini stand to both 3DS and Switch, while superstores dont at all (Though memos are going around saying the largest ones will be adding Switch stock in stores that have space) I doubt they will grow that space. Its ultimately a case of waiting and seeing but in waiting you give people no reason so you never see.

Shelf space issues are still a thing? I mean, at the Best Buy near me there's 2 and a half rows of Switch and 3ds stuff, and three free standing displays, and a pile of switches at the front door, while XB1 and PS4 just have their two rows and now displays. Walmart seems to have dedicated more space to Switch for everything but games... which makes sense as it has less games released than either rival platform. And even Gamestop's Nintendo section is bigger than the Sony section... though their XBox 360 section is still bigger than the Switch or XB1 section. No joke.

It is a vicious self-fulfilling cycle that Nintendo fans buy mostly first party and indies, therefore first-party and indie titles are mostly what get published, therefore Nintendo fans buy mostly first-party and indies.

I agree it'll take time for Nintendo to develop a larger retail presence again. The Wii U was a major bomb and burned a lot of bridges. It will take a while for Nintendo to repair the damage.

I'm afraid they are talking about me. I have no care for all the shovelware, not too fussed about retro, I don't want tv/video players or a browser. I don't want Nintendo to improve the chat system, and to finish that 95% of the games I buy are 1st party and have little or no interest in third party offerings. Sorry

Ps. I don't have a problem with anything like that being available on the switch,

@bluesdance Do you have a 3DS?

I'm guessing in Japan the situation with Xbox and Switch is a lot different than in the UK. MS doesn't care about Japan and I dont' think Ntinedo cares all that much about the UK.

I really don't think the UK retail market dictates what 3rd party games come to Switch or not. Indies eshop downloads - no cart cost, AAA gets size limits and Switch tax. Thats' probably as much of a reason why so few AAA games are on Switch as retail shelf space in the UK. Even moreso.

So anybody else distracted by the girls hair matching her headphones?

I remember the first time I saw a GameStop where the space for Nintendo was incredibly limited. They even had relatively recent 3DS titles marked down because they wanted Nintendo take up as little space as possible. I was unhappy.

I was in an Argos last week and while the Switch had a presence, which was great to see, they didn't have Odyssey out, or any mention of it, & FIFA 18 for Switch was on view but... considerably more expensive than on the other platforms.

Not only is Switch being stocked in the larger Sainsbury's stores, I even saw a physical copy of Disgaea 5, which is about as niche as it gets for Switch third-party releases in Britain. And I got Street Fighter from John Lewis. All the big UK stores are starting to jump on board ahead of Christmas.

@rjejr You're probably distracted because she reminds you of SG...

As for your thoughts, and this is not specifically directed at you personally, but you did bring it up: I'd say that the man has some valid points. He's in the industry after all, so I think it would be pretty safe to say that he's more in the know than we are.

Although it's probably true that Nintendo is part of the problem because they're guilty of charging too much for their higher capacity cartridges, making the choice to go for them less obvious, that still doesn't mean that triple A getting size limits is true, because that's simply not the case:

developers/publishers CHOOSE to put only half of their games on smaller capacity cartridges because they want to cut costs, subsequently burdening gamers with these costs and the fact that they still have to download 16GB or more to their Switch, quite possible resulting in said gamers having to continuously either upgrade their SD card capacity or having to buy multiple of them, completely defeating the purpose and/or benefit of having a system that uses plug and play cartridges...

Oh, and Switch tax is not an actual thing: that's a derogatory term invented by all the whiny babies that needed a label for their "righteous" indignation about the difference in cost between disc-based and cartridge-based media. The latter was always going to be more expensive; even a blind person with half a brain could have seen that coming from a mile away and a decade ago...

But it didn't stop there: to add some extra flavor to their whine, a lot of people also use the "but it's an old title that is already a lot cheaper on other platforms" complaint. Yet another thing that is even dumber than dumb.

The fact that you can play them on other consoles/PC really isn't relevant for the Nintendo-only crowd, and doesn't/shouldn't matter for multi-platform owners.

For the Switch, these are NEW titles, and some of these games/developers have never even been on a Nintendo platform. Combined with the necessary costs for packaging, marketing and the needed profit margins where publishers and retailers are concerned, all of it can be explained quite easily and logically, provided people are willing to lose that Nintendo-colored chip on their shoulder...

And that marketing trajectory and those earnings have already been made on the other platforms, hence the (logical) discount, so that's another reason why it isn't a fair comparison. People should compare release date prices, if they TRULY want to assess if something's too expensive or not.

All of that unnecessary (and sometimes overwhelming) negativity is really doing my head in at times. If people own multiple consoles, why can't they simply buy the game for the platform they prefer, instead of whining about the version they aren't going to buy anyway...

I honestly stopped caring very much pf the releases my PS4 has received since getting a Switch and the versatility has gotten me back involved in gaming to a level I haven't seen myself in since the GCN era.

And companies coming out and showing excitement (something Capcom should do even if we're just a port venue) is beneficial for the company. If you're excited, the community will cultivate around it will share the same enthusiasm and the sales will reflect. Look how well it's been for Nicalis, and I rarely bought things from them on Steam.

"The opportunities are there. Nintendo does not exclude you, it just asks you to 'up your game'. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it."
Signal boost this for the "AAA" devs in the back!

@BLP_Software I wouldn't use the UK to see what are Ninty's chances at retail. Nintendo has never been big there. Even when they were almost the only player in town (NES).

Here in America, a big market for Nintendo since the NES days, every major retail store still dedicates considerable shelve space to the 3DS and even the Wii U.

At every GameStop, the 3DS stuff is usually near the entrance. Wii U stuff has less space, tho.

In Japan, the 3DS is still huge and that's mostly on the retail market (digital is barely a factor there). Wii U is pretty much dead there.

@bluesdance Why would I buy third party multiplats when they look better on my other consoles and PC?

"...but...but...BUT you can play Doom on the go."

Rather play it on my nice monitor at 120fps.

If the Switch continues its momentum, it’ll surpass the Xbox in shelf space within 6 months. I don’t see the Xbox One X taking off without more exclusive games.

@LUIGITORNADO Exactly - or why wait months to play a game I'm a fan of like wolfenstein 2 when I can get it for $36 dollars on PC on launch day and play at 1080p/60fps and max settings.

FIFA was the wake up call that "play on the go" is not the fix all feature when it comes to games we fans of. We will buy the best version we can have.

Outside Indies like Battle Chasers and RIME the Switch just cant compete with home consoles. Maybe with Japanese series like Atelier, Tales or Disgaea it will have a better.

@LUIGITORNADO so play it on your PC. Not everyone has that kind of rig.

@link3710 Yeah, in the UK they are. Most supermarkets here have little to no Nintendo section at all, whilst our main gane shop has a tiny section and overcharges greatly.

I feel the shelf space the Switch has now is based on the limited amount of retail releases thus far. The will improve over time although I doubt it will ever have equal shelf space to psyand Xbox- they just have too many games in retail with plenty more coming. The Switch will have way more space than the Wii U ever had though. Just a matter of time.

"The opportunities are there. Nintendo does not exclude you, it just asks you to 'up your game'. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it."
The gauntlet has been thrown, female canines in the gaming industry.
This is going to be one of my favourite quotes for a while.

@MartyFlanMJFan Argos operate as a catalogue company, I've never known them to have day one releases. Which is suprising nowadays as they have those touch screen computers now.

@dizzy_boy ah right, thanks for that!

@ThanosReXXX "Oh, and Switch tax is not an actual thing: that's a derogatory term invented by all the whiny babies that needed a label for their "righteous" indignation about the difference in cost between disc-based and cartridge-based media. The latter was always going to be more expensive; even a blind person with half a brain could have seen that coming from a mile away and a decade ago..."

Just b/c we knew about it a decade ago doens't mean it isn't a real thing. Companies charging more for their game b/c Ntinedo charges them more for larger size carts IS the Switch tax. Just b/c you don't like the name Switch tax and we knew about it in advance doens't make it not real. I'm pretty sure at this point it's a fact.

More 3rd party supports = Great news.
I hope EA want to port their The Sims 4 on Switch. If they can release The Sims Mobile (Technically Watered down version of The Sims 4 for IOs and Android) , why not for The Sims 4 Switch ?

@rjejr @Thanosrexxx I don't care about the Swtich tax at all. Carts are a superior format. I do care about games, tax or no, that aren't actually ON the cart. If it's not actually possible to fit the game on a cart that's one thing. But Nintendo should not ever have made it permissible in a licensed, certified product to release a non-working product unless you download the rest, defeating the purpose of a cartridge to begin with. That's Nintendo bending over so far backward to woo those elusive AAAs they can insert their own head......

@Ralizah It's not just the WiiU that burned bridges. 3DS certainly didn't burn any bridges and is still going strong. The Wii really burned some retail bridges. After it's gangbusters fad origins that consumed retail shelf space like crazy, Nintendo kind of dropped the ball keeping momentum going in the second half of it's life. Add that, to the WiiU, and that's where retail really looks bad. BUT 3DS should really be keeping Nintendo from sinking too low in retail presence despite all that. So I'm not sure why it's still so iffy.

@MartyFlanMJFan well there we go, @electrolite77 has had some luck with Argos.
I still think of Argos as how they used to operate. Basically, they never had new stuff in untill the next catalogue came out. Tbh though, I rarely go into Argos anyway, my local one rarely have what I want, it usually means going on a bus ride a few towns over to the next one.

@RainbowGazelle You guys have video games in your supermarkets? Bizarre, most of them near me only have food and a few essential household items.

"it just asks you to up your game"

Ain't that the truth. I want to see developers keep their file sizes low and keep the same performance. I want to see publishers think out their releases, whether that be through smaller shipments or choosing to stay away from the big holiday seasons so they aren't in direct competition.

The industry has to get leaner and smarter. Quite a few games/developers got scrapped or straight-out failed this year, yet big publishers still bank on the notion that everyone is going to buy a 4K tv and a OneX/4Pro with 20 games. It just isnt happening.

All the while, they abuse the lootbox structure to try and catch constant sales revenue. Eventually, that well will dry up.

It‘s totally fine with EA not supporting the Switch. At least we are saved from theier stupid and greedy games.

@NEStalgia I agree with you that it's a really bad idea, but look how little AAA 3rd party support Wii U had. I don't think Nintendo really had a choice if they wanted to make Switch succeed. Kimishima is a businessman, he stuck his head were it needed to be in order to make Switch a success. Hopefully in a couple of years Nitnedo will build the Switch w/ 64GB and the cart prices will come down so this isn't a problem, but for now, as bad as it is, I think it was their only choice.

What I would like to see though is some common sense. If NBA 2k REQUIRES a SD card 1 should be in the box. If Doom has single player on the cart and multiplayer as a download then that is 2 separate games, 2 separate purchases, so it should have 2 separate prices, $30 each, or $40 and $20. Point is, if single player is on the cart, charge for the single player game. If multiplayer is a download, charge for that.

For all the people saying - well I had to buy extra storage for my Xbox 1 or PS4 so waht's the big deal. No, you didn't, not for any 1 game. No 1 game is 500GB, not even with DLC. Every single game ever made on PS4 and Xbox 1 can fit on the HDD it came with, no 4GB or 12GB systems this gen. Switch is the only system that requires EXTRA storage for only 1 game. That's on Nintendo. They knew how big games are this gen in HD, they made a 32GB system anyway. They knew this was a problem all those years on Wii U, but they made their next gen console AGAIN w/ that small of a storage size. The 32GB is on them. 64GB would fit every Switch game, this wouldn't be a problem. The cart size, they'll also had to know that when they decided on bringing AAA games to the Switch. Sacrifices have to be made all around, but some common sense is sorely needed.

@rjejr Nintendo had to stretch to make it work but there's a difference between stretching to make it work and "you're allowed to box a product you know doesn't actually work. At ALL, and sell it as a retail product and we'll approve it." Doom I'm ok with. Single player is on the cart, works, you don't need a single other thing to play Doom off the cart. Online features require an extra download and it's large but not outrageous. It's not ideal but it's not pushing boundries of crazy. You buy a physical game, you get to play your physical game. You want to go online to play other parts, you have to download some stuff for it. Ok, that's cool.

L.A.Noire and NBA push in a different direction. The cartridge has no actual functionality of any kind whatsoever. It has no reason to exist. It has no playable game on it, and you need to download the bulk of the game. There's no excusing that. And it was up to Nintendo to set that limit. "Your game must work in single player on the cart" isn't too high a bar to set.

For me it's not even the SD space. I have a 128GB in there. I don't want to max it but L.A.Noire would fit. But I'm not going to download 14GB (28GB across 2 household Switches) on my "quasi unlimited unless it's too much" connection because they couldn't be bothered to buy a larger cart for a dollar. If a patch is > 10GB I just don't buy. FFXV, same issue.

Which is a shame because I was really interested in the game.

@NEStalgia Don't get me wrong, I don't like it either, and I'd consider boycotting a game over it, but I think ti's a deal Ntinedo had to make to get 3rd party support on the Switch when they decided to go with carts and 32GB of internal storage. They just weren't in any position to be playing hardball.

Oh, and the carts exist for the same reason download codes exist, so retailers can sell digital games. And really, if you are arguing they just sell empty boxes w/ codes in them rather than half a game on a cart, I can get behind that. Nintned sold me a $380 Switch w/ a download code for Mario - cheap lazy bastards couldn't even pre-install it for me - and then I didn't even get Gold coins for my purchase. I would have been much better off w/ a $300 Switch and game on cart. But in your case you would still have to download 64GB on your 2 systems instead of 32GB, so you still lose.

And again, Nintnedo telling devs "all on cart or download only", well they just weren't in a position of strength after Wi U.

EA doesn't like Switch because unlike PS4 and Xbone, they have to put a little effort into the games. On PS4 and Xbone they can just keep rehashing the same content over and over.

Worms? For god's sake, I remember playing that as a kid on the Amiga! Can't we have some new ideas?

I get that game sites number one priority is to report gaming news but ea support on the switch isn't needed and probably is a good move. Most of their catalogue are mainstream annual releases that most people purchased a switch to ignore. As long as Nintendo continues to deliver the same amount of content we got this year, most third parties would save a lot of time and headaches just avoiding the system because most of us aren't buying those games anyway. However, of third parties would rerelease remastered ps2 era games or less popular last gen gems, those may be enticing, but lackluster current gen ports aren't worth the developer or gamers time.

@IPrino

I can't really see the point with games like L.A. Noire, where you only get the "Data" for half the game on the physical cartridge, and have to download the rest afterwards. This is so "broken".

For me these games are just like glorified download codes in a box. I can't really use them much, and would rather just get them all digital then.

I find it difficult to support, when there are options like a 32 GB cartridge where the whole game fits nicely, and the publisher then takes the cheap broken solution.

It just works against the whole concept about those nice fast cartridges, where you actually weren't supposed to install anything.

I can live with a solution like Doom, that offer's the full singleplayer game on the cartridge, and an optional multiplayer mode as a download. But I won't support that other crap.

@Indielink Which is fine, but calling out Nintendo fans for not "stepping up" and supporting multiplat consoles is ridiculous.

I was Nintendo only gamer up until Wii. Unfortunately, Nintendo didn't step up with their hardware, third parties dropped Nintendo, and I went out and bought a 360.

The Switch is getting plenty of shelf space here - it will be one the things to gift this Holiday.
And I’m glad we get worms, I loved the releases on PC.

@rjejr It's silly to condemn the $300 Switch for having 32GB storage and an SD slot when the $950 Note 8 also has 32GB storage and an SD slot, and the $700 Note 5 before it had 32GB and NO SD slot. 32GB isn't even underdone by the standards of top tier top price flagship phones yet. Note 8 costs more than 3 Switches and has the same amount of storage.

Nintendo "not being in a position to play hardball" is a different problem than letting the third parties dictate how their platform will work, the very problem Yamauchi accurately credited to Atari's failure. The third parties will destroy the good will of an entire platform if it will boost their Q3 report. They need to be reigned in.

In this case you're excusing selling retail products as a digital unlock key for a download. It worked on PC so they want to force the whole industry into that. They may even succeed, but what they're doing is hijacking Nintendo's boxed product ecosystem, and Nintendo isn't stopping them.

That said, what you say about Mario Odyssey being just a download code tells me Nintendo is all in on it and is part of the problem. If this continues I wouldn't doubt if it marks my exit from gaming entirely. Which is sad because it's currently my primary hobby and has been through much of my life. I won't keep buying "retail" products that are just keys to download 15+ products. Game data keeps getting bigger which means MORE reason have it physical, not less.

@rjejr Well sorry, but I don't agree. Angry gamers invented this and the media ran with it, doesn't mean it's an actual thing.

It could easily be used for anything using proprietary media, or cartridges. There was never any PSP or Vita tax, so there also isn't any Switch tax. THAT's a fact. And even though I'm no blind Nintendo fanboy, it does stand out, once again, that this negative perception apparently only counts when it is about them, but not when it concerns other companies.

Color me baffled once again. Or sadly enough, not even baffled anymore. I could have seen this coming as well...

@NEStalgia Completely agreed. They should have made better deals/agreements, and also invested in that themselves (I don't give any "get out of jail for free" card to Nintendo either) to make sure that they could present complete games on a single, larger size cartridge to the consumer, who actually deserves to be able to buy this instead of all these extra download and SD card shenanigans...

man i wish my headphones matched my hair

@ThanosReXXX Absolutely, there was discussion about that on another thread. Nintendo's to blame for not eating the cost of the hardware and making the cost of carts uniform tot match the right cart with the games as needed. No excuse for them not accepting the cost for carts themselves an an expense for the Switch business.

But similarly they needed to have mandated that licensed retail games will be playable single player out of the box, no exceptions. Though I doubt it occurred to them that any company would be unscrupulous enough to NOT do so.

This problem needs to be crushed early on.

@NEStalgia Indeed, and by now, it's going to be an uphill battle, and meanwhile, the whole advantage/purpose of having games on plug and play cartridges is almost completely nullified, to the point of it going in the direction of that physical unlock key for digital media, that you previously mentioned...

@link3710 Yeah. Other than online, there aren't many other places to get games.

@ThanosReXXX Honestly, I'd cling to PS4 more than Nintendo if "most of the content" is on the disc for now. The carts were one of the most exciting things about Switch because it appeared it would herald a return to more real physical media than the other way around. Granted, 2K is still the only one (for now) really abusing this and I'm hoping they fail and fail miserably, and, yes, abandon Nintendo again, but the effect would be to chill other company's intentions of trying the same model and/or encourage Nintendo to eat those costs.

To publishers retail games are just physical advertising footprint. To consumers and especially cartridge consumers, retail games are plug and play cartridges. If it goes the way of physical unlock keys in a box, I'll abandon console just as I abandoned PC and pick a new hobby. It will be really depressing but I see little choice of they effectively remove the hobby. unless they come up with another system that's more reasonable than "cloud everything!"

Still, keeping the fears in check, it's just 2K for now and they've been the only abuser from the start (NBA Playgrounds, NBA 2K, WWE, and L.A. Noire. Doom gets honorable mention from Bethesda but since only the (temporary) online suffers from the (temporary) download, I can't hold it against that one since the core game will be playable on the cart. If 2K gets shut down hard in Nintendo space, this problem probably won't plague us for the remainder of the generation.

@NEStalgia "It's silly to condemn"

You realize it's silly to compare game consoles with phones right? Does the phrase "apples and oranges" mean anything to you?

How many smart phone games require a 24GB download? You might as well compare cars and bikes and then complain your bicycle doesn't have a big enough gas tank.

@ThanosReXXX What about the "Apple tax"? Apple tax isn't really a tax either, it's just a thing people say. Everybody knows what it means, thats' why people use it. Switch tax is the modern version of Apple tax only on a Switch.

9 years ago
https://gizmodo.com/5065133/the-truth-about-the-apple-tax

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Apple%20Tax

@rjejr Yup, same thing, equally ridiculous, but apparently, it's all the rage. From now on, I'm gonna yell <insert company name> tax every damn time I don't agree with what they (dare to) charge me for their products, regardless of the fact if I'm going to buy it or not...

@NEStalgia I completely agree, and let's indeed hope that the only tumor that we need to remove is 2K, and not that it's going to spread until it's impossible to treat anymore.

If that does happen however, then I'll more than likely join you in not giving these A*holes any single second of my time anymore, let alone a single penny of my hard-earned money.

Only difference is that I'll simply become a full-blown retro gamer, then. Can't completely let that go, and I'm already a part-time retro gamer anyway...

@ThanosReXXX Yes, I'm pretty sure that's the way it works. Well unless you live on Long Island like I do, then they call taxes other things, like payments and fees.

http://www1.nyc.gov/site/finance/benefits/benefits-payment-in-lieu-of-taxes-agreements-pilot.page

http://libn.com/2017/09/22/once-again-nassau-seeks-real-estate-fee-hikes/

@rjejr Aren't you the one arguing the Switch is just a tablet? Fair to compare it to phones if it is, right?

Phones may not have 28GB downloads, but unlike Switch, phones can record their own UHD video. Think WWE takes a lot of storage? Try 30 minutes at 4k/60 in stereo! 32GB gives you what, like 3 minutes of that kind of video? I DEMAND A TERABYTE!

Also, your bicycle is boring

As for the Apple Tax, the difference between Switch Tax and Apple Tax is that Switch Tax is really just the value of a superior format. Apple tax really buys you no additional value..... (Sorry, couldn't resist the Apple jab...)

@Thanosrexxx Well there's always 1st party Nintendo games. I suspect they'll deliver full products for a good while still. There may be a reason Nintendo gamers buy only Nintendo games after all!

@rjejr Gotta buy avocado toast in Brooklyn with SOMEBODY's money! And how will everyone pay their Apple tax if not from your benefits payment?

@NEStalgia True, but it is still sad that we can't seem to have a normal instance of a bit more flavor on our favorite platform without having to suffer major compromises, due to both the company that the platform is from, and developers that skimp on investing in a complete end user product...

@NEStalgia Obviously, an Apple tax where @rjejr lives seems only fair, since he's living in the Big Apple...

@ThanosReXXX Yeah, though, in this case, it's really only a matter of time before that "compromise" applies to all the platforms. The "cloud" really made so much in the software and entertainment industry suck fully.

@NEStalgia "Aren't you the one arguing the Switch is just a tablet? Fair to compare it to phones if it is, right?"

Only if you can find me a $1,150 tablet with face recognition unlock.

Switch is a tablet physically, but it plays PS4 and X1 games. It's marketed as a videogame console and Nintnedo likely asked 2K and Bethseda to put it's games on it. I dont' think Nokia or Samsung ask for 36GB games to be on their phones and tablets b/c they aren't selling them as home videogame consoles like Nintnedo is with the Switch.

When Nokia, Samsung and Apple build their $800 phones they know what they are planning for and build accordingly. Nintendo was building a videogame tablet meant to play 50GB+ PS4 and X1 games and put 32GB worth of storage in it. That's on Nintendo.

I like your Apple tax vs Switch tax. Switch tax actually seems more realistic as it works more like a tax for a known product purchase of a bigger cart, Apple tax was always more of an insult, pay more for less. Until 32GB carts are the same price as 50GB discs I'm calling it Switch tax.

@ThanosReXXX Apple tax in NY is more like an entry fee.

@NEStalgia Yeah... true, that. Only a matter of time before things spin out of control and SkyNet becomes a reality...

@rjejr Holy crap. Where's that from? I'm kinda hoping it's just a Halloween picture, but probably not...

@rjejr And you honestly don't expect an iPad X for $1200? For shame!

"Nintendo was building a videogame tablet meant to play 50GB+ PS4 and X1 games and put 32GB worth of storage in it. That's on Nintendo."

Not really, they built a machine to play PS4 and X1 games that would be available on cartridges that required no storage. Then they were too lax with their policy and never imagined companies circumventing the cartridge prices by shafting consumers with unplayable products requiring massive downloads The SD slot was for folks that wanted to go digital.

Of course it's not really a Switch tax. The 32GB cart can play the game from the cart. The 50GB BD is just an installation medium to install it to your molasas slow laptop hard drive unless you pony up for an SSD so it runs well. I'd gladly pay a few $ for runnable carts rather than buying $400 1TB SSDs to install all my BDs ONTO. Nintendo built a system that can actually play games from the media.....PSXBox didn't. Then 2K decided to not use the media.....

@ThanosReXXX 1982's Pink Floyd The Wall.

AKA the basis for Trump's Presidential run. Build the Wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=196h-nUrNB4

@NEStalgia But what happens when a game is larger than 32GB and Nitnedo only offers carts that large? What are devs supposed to do then? If you span the game over 2 carts that's going to cost a lot, AND you'll probably need to install the game then, just like PS4 and X1, so you'll also need an SD card since Switch only has 32GB built in.

I know 2K is an easy target now w/ NBA and WWE, but this problem isn't going to go away. People may get used to it and just ho hum, like they do w/ microtransactions and pay-to-win, but we'll keep having games that don't fit or the devs don't wanna pay.

@rjejr if people accept it and it becomes common, i go back to PlayStation. If they do it too, i leave gaming except maybe 1 st party.

As for 32gb, switch games shouldn't be needing that much, as textures are lower res than ps4 games use, and switch doesn't support 7.1 audio channels, so a 50gb game should usually fit in 32. Also 32 is the CURRENT Max offered but that didn't mean that's permanent. 3ds card availability increased over the years. What if switch gains 64gb cards while ps is stuck with 50?

Otherwise i can accept downloads for particularly larger games that don't fit due to actual technical limits of the hardware. But they'd better use a full 32gb at retail. Ideally the game would even run until the part where additional data is required like the old "insert disc 2"

@rjejr Ah, okay. I know the music, but I can't quite recall the entire video clip.

@ThanosReXXX "I can't quite recall the entire video clip"

That's b/c nobody who has ever seen that movie did so sober.

@NEStalgia "Ideally the game would even run until the part where additional data is required like the old "insert disc 2""

I kind of miss those days. I own about 15 PS1 games on disc, on disc b/c well that's how games came back then, and I think 14 of them are multi-discs games. Mostly b/c I only played JRPG back then, and some are 2 game sets. And MGS. The only 1 for sure is DDR. I also own 1 disc "Dora the Explorer on the Purple Planet" but that might be on PS2.

But changing 2 discs on a home console is different than changing 2 carts on the road. It will never happen. OK it might happen, anything might happen, but I don't see it. I could see 2 carts in 1 box for 2 games like the Bayonetta set, but not 1 game spanning 2 carts, they would just go cart and download at that point.

We finally made use of Mario as a download yesterday when Sonic Forces arrived. Next week is Lego Marvel Superheros 2, but that may be a gift for the holidays. Really not much else now that XC2 is on the back burner until next year. We need a ND for early 2018. Kirby. Yoshi, Somebody.

@rjejr Actually, I only know the clip of "The Wall", with the cartoon sections and that mega-sized marionette. That picture you posted earlier, looked like some bad attempt at a Nazi-party...

Or it could have been a still from the new Star Wars movie...

P.S.

Why do you think that there can't be games on multiple cartridges? Of course it's not ideal and Nintendo should just shut up and offer those larger capacity ones already, and cough up the difference in price themselves, but besides all that, it would factually not be any different than swapping a disc.

Whether the program has to wait for disc 2 or cart 2 is only a difference in our perception: in the end it's only waiting for the data that is not present on the first medium, so it needs the second one to be able to access it. And that can be on any medium. In fact, it could even be disc 1 and cartridge 2, long as the data is there and the command line where to find it is written in the program...

@rjejr And to add to that, loading part of the data from a cartridge and the rest from internal storage is also exactly the same thing as what I explained above...

@ThanosReXXX 2 carts is more of a dislike feeling than any rational explanation I can provide. Though there are reasons. Who wants to have to change carts while standing on a crowded moving subway? Or even in the back seat of the car on a long road trip when the 2nd disc might be in the trunk? It's just not convenient for a portable, and I think at this point probably 60% or more of all Switch usage is portable. (Japan skews it higher than 50%)

So it's not so much about the cart, same for disc too if those were used in a portable. Did PSP ever have a game or movie span multiple discs? Google search can't find any.

So it technically could happen, I just think it's a bad idea. And if it were a good idea, why hasn't Bethesda or 2K used it already?

@rjejr Fair enough, those are valid points. Initially, I just thought that you were talking about it not really being possible, hence my question.

And I wouldn't want to swap cartridges on the go either, so we definitely agree.

Although: if you play a couple of different games on the go, depending on the length of the trip of course, then you would technically be doing the exact same thing...

@rjejr And Bethesda are the good guys, they don't have any mandatory downloads or that many GB's in comparison to the hell spawn that is 2K...

And they probably wouldn't want to do something that would actually be less skimpish than putting only a quarter of your game on a cartridge and force the buyer to download the rest.

@ThanosReXXX I assumed it was Star Wars as well. Especially since it came from rjejr and he was in a Star Wars motif a short while ago I don't recall that from The Wall either.

I can't see a cartridge 2 happening in part because a cartridge 2 has never existed in the past. I can't see it starting now while "disc 2" is also a forgotten relic. Even for Nintendo 1st party they did the WiiU BotW "install the decompressed data from disc to drive" trick rather than a 2 disc solution. That was a performance issue more than storage, but, still, I can't imagine any company doing an "insert disc/cart 2" solution any time soon. Especially with download being possible now, unfortunately, unless there's a huge backlash to download requirements. Here's the thing though. On PS4 you can play your game while it downloads...it needs like 20 minutes to start caching parts that are needed for early play and you can play it while the rest downloads. Why can't the "too small" carts work that way for Switch? You can play the game up to the point the cart ran out of needed assets and you have to download the end? The publishers are already supporting FIFO limited streamed assets for Playstation digital downloads!

Haha, "Bethesda are the good guys" are not the words I ever thought I would hear after their decades of infamously bug-ridden software But it's true these days. They can pump out freaking Skyrim on a cartridge, and 2K can't bother themselves with a wrestling game or basketball game. Sure they chimped Doom, but they didn't compromise the single player experience, just required downloads for multi (which usually requires downloaded assets anyway due to the changing nature of multi.) Perfect compromise. (And really, who wants to play Doom online? That's what Quake's for. )

To be fair, there IS the possibility that enough 32GB carts just don't actually exist and 2K was last at the buffet line. Considering BotW, Skyrim, XC2 all almost certainly use 32GB carts, it is possible that there just aren't enough available for bulk order by the late to the party 2nd tier third parties. Still doesn't excuse the 8GB card though.

@NEStalgia It's not that I see it happening, or even as a viable option, I was just explaining to our partner in crime @rjejr, that it could technically be made possible without too much trouble, and I also explained how and why.

It really isn't any more different than the old diskette floppy disk swapping days or the more recent CD/DVD/Blu-ray swapping days. But I already agreed with him that it isn't going to happen, let alone be handy in real life, so you're "a bit" late to the party there...

And personally, I would want NOTHING Sony-like on my Nintendo system, so thanks, but no thanks. Doesn't even sound like the most elegant solution either. More like a solution for a problem that shouldn't even have been a problem in the first place. But we've got both Sony and Microsoft to thank for such malpractices.

As for those three games you mentioned: I'm pretty sure, about 99%, that they are NOT using 32GB cartridges, because that would be serious overkill, UNLESS the DLC that you download to internal storage is actually already present on the cartridge in compressed form or something.

File sizes for the main versions of these games:

Zelda BotW - 13.4GB
Skyrim - 14.3GB
XC2 - 13.0GB

Even with add-ons, they could still fit that on a 16GB cartridge, provided the extras are indeed compressed.

I suspect that the current situation is that the 32GB card is definitely present on the Switches' menu card, but none of the developers is willing to order it, for whatever reason. Personally, I find that price difference rumor a bit too over-exaggerated, because for large companies like that, the added cost means next to nothing, so perhaps it does have to do with starting/investing in the needed supply chain, which means the problem is mainly at Nintendo's end, if they don't dare to pre-produce cartridges with that capacity, because they don't know how much they will be able to sell, so perhaps the initial investment is too unsure.

That's just off the top of my head, though. Maybe it's something else entirely, who knows...

Either way, I fully agree that it still doesn't excuse the ridiculous choice for 8GB.

@ThanosReXXX Partner in crime? I'm just here for the pic of the blue haired girl up top. OK, maybe that makes me the look-out.

@rjejr Or the stalker, depending on how you look at it...

Remember: I'm not into the punky, tattooed, pierced SG type of females at ALL.

P.S.

On a related note: the Brits now have their own version of SG, which is called PunkGrl. Thought that might perhaps interest you...

@rjejr Oh, and that site has a DOTnet address...

@dres I totally understand your point. I will support it to show that the demand for these types of games exists. I am hopeful that the 32GB cards will be used sooner than later. I have read that the larger cards are pretty expensive so maybe they are just testing to see if there is enough demand to warrant going all in with larger cards. Whatever it is I hope that 3rd parties will see it as being worthwhile to do so. Cheers.

@IPrino
Fair enough.

I just want them to know, that this is not okay. I am definitely not going to support the broken physical release. And for the digital version, it will be way down on my list, because of their stupid decisions. I just can't make myself support this kind of crap.

It's a tricky situation. We want to support 3rd party games, that we like, but not that kind of business model, where they "ruin" the physical release. If we keep supporting them, they will just continue with this stupid way of releasing physical games.

@ThanosReXXX Thanks for the Punkgrl info, but I spend way too much time w/ the SGs as it is. One of my favorite photographers is a DJ in the UK, now I'm curious if she does work for PG as well, I'll have to ask her.

@ThanosReXXX "And Bethesda are the good guys, they don't have any mandatory downloads or that many GB's"

My problem w/ Bethesda is how they handled Doom. Single player on the cart, mutliplayer as a digital download. That part is fine. But doesn't that make it 2 different games? Why should I pay full price for a cart for multiplayer if I'm not going to download mutliplayer? Why buy a cart if I only want to download multiplayer player? I know it is only sold as 1 game on the other consoles, but the other console owners didn't have to download the mutliplayer as a separate game, it was included. So since Switch owners have to download the multiplayer, taking up 9GB of space, then it would look better to me to have it's own price, like a DLC pack.

There's no mention of the 9GB download on the Amazon website.

https://smile.amazon.com/DOOM-Nintendo-Switch/dp/B075MZMFXH/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1510853331&sr=8-1&keywords=doom+switch

And it's a $60 game, but they also took out SnapMode from the other versions. Which is fine I suppose, never seemed like it got used much, but ti's still $60, only single player is on the cart and multiplayer is a 9GB download. Should have made the cart $40, another $20 for the multiplayer. Though I suppose that idea would have been bashed as well, everything gets bashed on the internet.

I am still impressed they got it running on Switch, and even bothered to bring it, it may not sell. i think it was $10 on PS4 last week.

@ThanosReXXX "if you play a couple of different games on the go, depending on the length of the trip of course, then you would technically be doing the exact same thing..."

Good point. Though in my head there is a difference between wanting to swap carts to play a new game and having to swap carts to keep playing a game you are in the middle of. But it was a good point on your part nonetheless.

@rjejr Okay, coming back from a short dinner break, only to find a whole bunch of comments from good old @rjejr...

I'm just going to address all of it in one big, wall of text kind of reply, so here goes:

Fair point on Doom and its download, but nonetheless, I do think that the effort, AND the single player game, are definitely worth the support, and also the price. However, I can understand that it could potentially be a bit of a mental juggle if you're only interested in one or the other.

I actually know quite a few people that only use the single player/offline campaigns in these type of games to practice for the online multiplayer part, to "git gud" enough to be able to survive and thrive in the online part of these games.

And that not only goes for Doom, but also for the Battlefields and COD's of this world. Having said that though, there are plenty of people that only play the game for the story and there's no story in multiplayer. And even if it would only take you a limited amount of hours to finish it, then there's still more than enough incentive to do it again on a higher difficulty setting and/or to get all the goods hidden in the levels, as well as get a better score for all the gory kills, all the way up to the so-called speed runs, which none of us ordinary mortals will ever do, but still, I think you'll get the point...

Snap Mode is pretty much a meaningless/useless extra that most people won't even use let alone try, so them taking it out of the Switch version means next to nothing. The only "meaningful" thing it represents, is unfortunately yet another handle for all the negative whiners online to show how much the Switch version is "gimped" compared to the "real" version of Doom.

In any case, I still think Bethesda is at the forefront of showing other third parties of what their support for a Nintendo platform should look like, which is also shown by how they handled and released Skyrim, and I definitely hope that people will appreciate and support it by buying these games, otherwise they are going to once again be a part of the self-fulfilling prophecy of no third party support on a Nintendo platform...

"Good point"

Yeah, I do still have my moments...

Seriously, though: personally, I wouldn't mind if they would use that as a solution. I've been used to swapping floppies, CD's and even DVD's, so what would the objection be? Perhaps for someone who hasn't experienced any of that, in which case it would be an entirely new thing for them, but otherwise, I don't think it would be all that much of an issue.

And given how fast kids today learn to grasp handling all kinds of devices, they'd probably get used to swapping cartridges in no time. And from a developer's point of view: what if two 8 or 16 GB cartridges is still cheaper than one 32GB? It would still be beneficial for all parties: lower costs for the developers/publishers, and no mandatory downloads for us.

That would even be the best thing about it all, because that is also yet another reason for all the cry babies to whine and moan, because their Switch has so little storage space. I've said it dozens of time already, and I'll keep saying it until... well, whatever. I'll just keep saying it anyway, regardless of whether it'll hit home or not:

Forcing mandatory downloads on a cartridge-based system is completely defeating the purpose of using such media, since a cartridge should be a self-contained and complete plug and play product, not one that is only partially available or can't even be played at all (looking at you, 2K) without that extra mandatory download.

With all that in mind, I still think that even though Doom isn't offering the MOST perfect solution, it is probably still the most perfect solution out at this moment...