Physical Version Of WWE 2K18 Requires A 24GB Download To Play

They could at least meet us half way and put the games on a 16gb card. Opting for the 8gb card just screams a lack of repect the consumer.

Good to know, my mate has got his son a Switch for Christmas and he was telling me just last week they've WWE 2K18 pre-ordered. I was telling him he'd probably need to get a microSD card in advance of Christmas morning. What are people using in their Switch, any recommendations for him?

Silly. Very silly.

Put your game on the card. If it doesn't fit, then release it as digital only.

Not a fan of sports games, let alone wrestling, so I won’t bother with it, but this is just outrageous and cheap. Shame on you, 2K!

This is getting beyond a joke and completely killing the one of main reasons to buy games physically. If third-parties don't sell as well as hoped on Switch, it'll be their own fault.

They may as well ditch the game card and just stick a download code in there instead, then pass the saving on to the consumer.

Stick it in your tights, 2K.

@MartyFlanMJFan Found on Amazon a promotion and paid only £30 for a Samsung Memory 128 GB EVO Plus
So far I haven't used it much as I prefer to buy the physical copy of the games but for the games I have installed there they are working fine, never had a problem.

I'm sorry but I don't get why people are complaining the fact that is necessary to buy a SD card.
All these games so far have a lot of recorded voice dialogues (which takes a lot of space) and on other platforms are also big games to download etc, so what do you expect when they port these games to the Switch?
If they increase the memory on the cartridge that means the developers will pass that cost to the consumers or does anyone really think they are charities?
I've only paid £30 on a 128GB Samsung SD card and so far have barely used.
Will probably start to use them soon as I have ordered the physical copies NBA and W2K18.
I do agree, however, that 32GB storage on the Switch is not enough but that is not the devs problems it's NIntendo's.
But also get that sd cards are not as cheap as the hard disks on other consoles so Nintendo probably picked 32GB to not to have to increase the cost of the console. But who knows?

People need to stop complaining about these downloads. Go check out the downloads required for Xbox One X Enhanced games - some of them are up to 130GB!

...hum..skip!

It's a Nintendo problem. Third parties are not the problem. These games are also big on other platforms.

What kind of voodoo magic is Nintendo using to make their own games fit into the cards ?

A couple of weeks ago I'd have gotten very angry over this type of thing however just over a week ago I bought myself an Xbox One S 1TB model.

On Xbox the whole game has to install to the console before you can play it so this sort of thing is perfectly normal unfortunately.

So, so poor. That's both of 2K Sports' games which have done this now. Nintendo should get stricter with them.

@Marios-love-child That's because the games don't play off the disc at all on PS3 an XBox because otherwise it can't access the game data fast enough due to limitations of disc media, it's basically a glorified password. The Switch doesn't have that problem because it uses cartridges, which devs like this refuse to sacrifice a couple dollars profit per unit to allow for a good user experience.

Nintendo are also masters of compression, and although audio and high res textures that these games may have so take up space, no one optimises games like Nintendo does.

This is really lame and something has got to give. Doom seems to have made a smart consession by putting the multiplayer campaign as the portion that needs to be downloaded but this seems crazy

@1UP_MARIO No, it's the third parties' problem. Zelda and Mario fit on a card. Why would a yearly update game not? Unacceptable.

Stupid trend. Watch them complain about Nintendo fans after many don't feel like buying it now.

Oh well. Bye.

2K already screwed us with NBA2K18, I won't fall for it twice...
they could easily choose a larger cartridge, especially considering how much they charge us for the game...

In THIS case, I'll buy the PS4 ver. Shame on Nintendo for launch a system in 2017 with the same space storage of the flopped Wii U.

@olrodlegacy well wouldn't you expect Nintendo to fit their own games on their own chosen cart for their hardware. And about file sizes wouldn't Nintendo know their hardware better than third party devs

It would be nice to at least have the option to pay extra for a cart that fits the whole game. Perhaps it would only be an extra 10 quid.

@raphaelbrasil ah the same tried and tested response.

Please explain how the switch only having 32GB storage has anything to do with take two using an 8GB cart. The switch could have 128GB storage. How would that stop take 2 using and 8GB cart.

Personal opinion on this, I'm ok with additional downloads for large games assuming the dev/publisher has at least had the decency to put the physical game out on a 16gb card (obviously I'd prefer them to use the 32gb card but you've got to assume that they are significantly more expensive at present). If they've gone for the smallest card just to up their profit then I just can't get behind that sort of thing and will more than likely skip the game all together.

@Fuz Yes, I get that not everybody has a good internet connection, however, from what I understand that is pretty standard on other platforms, you must install the games on your console before playing them.
Perhaps, to install, you won't have download the whole game but the patches can also be pretty big in some cases.
I'm not saying it's okay to by a cartridge and not be able to play the game straight away but again, these companies are not charities so you have two options:
1- don't buy the game or;
2- change the platform for another that you think is better

But they will still charge a premium for the Switch version right.... After seeing how broken the game is on Xbox, PS and PC I wouldn’t touch the game anyway.

I wasn't gonna buy this game anyway but if companies are gonna take this route they can **** right off! (That was self-censored).

I suppose for a game with aims for mainstream appeal, they aim to go for the cheapest price they can. If the game had more niche appeal then the publishers could always put out a statement and say that they had to raise the proce slightly to use a high capacity game card as they knew its what the fans wanted.

I really hope this doesn't become a regular issue; but I suspect a repeat of where some 3rd parties perform self-sabotage in offering their games in "inferior" states on the Switch and then abandon the console due to poor sales despite it was their own actions that drove it.

@AlternateButtons Meh, I’ll update all of my games that fall into that category for the added benefits. Takes hardly any time with NBN.

@mikeatron85 Why? When a game doesn’t fit on a cart then fine, but when it does but the publisher opts for the cheap option, then I think the customer has every right to complain. Your point is also flawed, for a start the games on that console can be played without downloading anything, but also it contains a large HDD unlike the Switch which doesn’t, so yea people have every right to be angry. Myself I have a 200GB Micro SD, but that doesn’t stop me being annoyed when crap like this happens.

@Tibob well to start the games have little or zero recorded dialogues, which I understand can make files very became very big.

@Marios-love-child : The game is still on the disc though. This is a case of a publisher using the cheapest possible cartridge and imposing the rest of the expense to the consumer.

@1UP_MARIO You're just making excuses for them - they're trying to squeeze every last bit of profit by using the cheapest carts and not caring about Nintendo fans. It's going to come back and bite them.

The whole point in buying the physical version, is so you have a physical representation of the game, not just buying a blank cartridge with download software on it.

this is becoming a bloody joke! when (if ever) will it stop!

@tourjeff Audio dialogue should not take up much space. Even uncompressed an hour of audio is only about 600MB, and audio is one of the easiest things to compress.

@AlternateButtons No need to be sorry, this is poor effort at its finest

@penfold007 : That makes no difference though and has nothing to do with "decency". No matter what cartridge size they decide to use, if the game is unplayable with the cartridge alone, then the size of the cartridge is completely irrelevant. Take 2 may as well have used a 1GB cartridge, but 8GB is (apparently) the default that Nintendo provides publishers. Either way, the publisher is not providing the entirety of the game on cartridge and is imposing a substantial cost to the consumer on top of the already high retail price (and 24GB is not exactly chump change in micro SD terms).

Tombstones and Doomstoned for failure.

@Fuz Exactly, and I I understand the internet issue, I'm luck enough to not to worry about it but I know some folks that don't have great connections and can imagine this would be a challenge for them.
Well, at least we agree on something, the best way to try to change this is with the wallet so, again, don't buy the game.
BTW, thanks for keeping a nice discussing, something people get very angry about the different opinions lol

@sillygostly like I said, personal opinion.

We're clearly just not going to get publishers going for the largest card. But I'd deem it a minimum requirement that the majority of the game was on the card and not the download not the other way round as 2K are doing it.

@olrodlegacy are they though. Multiple sources have claimed using an 8gb cart is the same cost as PS4 and Xbox one. once they go above that it's a bigger cost.

Doomed. This is all Nintendo's fault. /s

Seriously though, I'll still be picking this one up but yeah, 24 GB for the physical version seems excessive.

If only the console had a bigger internal memory ~
But yeah, 500 GB of flash or M.2 SSD would be very expensive.
Maybe the microSD card solution is the most logical at this point...
Aside, you know, from the game cards actually containing the whole game.

I think switch games requiring sd cards should come with the game and come with the sd card required. Remember the memory card holder in the gamecube cases.? Well something similar should be done for the switch. Sure prices maybe a little higher but it will save so much hassle for so many people.

This is so lame. Switch games should come on SD cards large enough to hold the games plus any updates they plan on releasing.

You know what 2K? You can keep your games.
The whole reason for buying physical is so that we have the game on a cart or disk.
So this is just Cheap on their part and shows just how lowly they think of their customers.

@mikeatron85 Lol NBN. We've supposedly had that for the past eight months. It worked for four then the copper from the node corroded into uselessness and now NBN refuses to fix it. Fun times wit dodgy connection reaching 12mbs at best on a 25mbs plan.

I know everyone is lamenting the loss of physical, but it's been dying for a while. What's the practical difference between this and a day one patch? Games have been releasing incomplete on physical media for years. If they're going to have to require any download at launch, they may as well choose the cheapest game card possible, that's just good strategy. But really, what reason is there to buy physical at all on Switch? The game saves aren't on the cartridge, half the games aren't even on the cartridge, and they're less convenient. 100% digital for me. If I want physical media, I'll buy Multiple SD cards and load my games by genre to those.

You would have thought the negative press and fan reaction to this stuff going on on NBA 2K18 would have made them rethink about this. I could have possiby bought both games for a bit of fun, but ths just adds a headache, even if you have a 200gb card which I'm guessing would cost £70, chances are you'll only be able to have 8-12 of these mandatory update games on it- not including the ones with only minor updates. This has made me ignore Doom and LA Noire as well.

Hopefully Nintendo and the Japanese games producers (eg: the sort of boxed games I want to buy), won't be pulling any of these tricks.

@NoxAeturnus

If you're sharing games between family and friends, it's a big deal to have the games on carts.

Ehh... well, works for me.

Accept the fact that big games need a micro SD card and let's end these endless and meaningless articles.

@AlternateButtons you think 2k18 has no details or effort?

No thanks,

And still no release date?! What the hell

Yikes. There’s essentially no point to buying physical, then. Just an inconvenient card to fumble with.

@MrGawain Sure, I agree. Physical media SHOULD be completely separate. I SHOULD be able to buy the full game and then add any patches to that media so that when servers die I can still play. And I should be able to share those carts with anyone I please. But game software sells a license, not a physical product, because publishers don't want the end user to have that kind of power, and things like day one patches have normalized incomplete physical releases for years on all consoles. This isn't a 2K problem, or a Nintendo problem, it's an industry standard now. Physical as it should be is already dead. Are we really surprised that what remains is the shady illusion of physical rather than the real thing?

@Danpal65 That’s a shame. My speeds aren’t that sluggish so the big downloads aren’t an issue for me.

At this pace I'll stop buying physical games altogether. What's the point of buying physical if several years from now you'll be left just with a useless piece of plastic since the game won't be playable after the servers are shut down?
Shame on 2K Games. And shame on Nintendo for allowing this.

@Hughesy Wrong. I didn’t buy an Xbox One X to play the games without the 4K enhancements. So those downloads? They’re necessary as far as I’m concerned. 24GB is nothing by comparison. Stop complaining

@MrGawain Doom is different because only the multiplayer is a download. The campaign is on the cartridge in its entirety. And since when the servers die, playing online will be impossible, the lack of multiplayer files on the cartridge is not an issue at all.
Rockstar Games and 2K Games have no excuses though...

So far the problem seems to be only with Take Two Interactive games. You don't hear this many people complaining about the way DOOM was handled. All three of their games have required a download with physical.

I'd say that speaks far more volume than anything here. I don't think it is a problem with Nintendo. I think it is a problem with Take Two Interactive.

One reason mire to simply not support EA. They are using the smallest and cheapest storage card possible and give the customers the cost.

Meanwhile theier games are filled up with mechanics to get as much money from the customer ss possible after they bought their games…

@Tibob Switchcraft lol

@zyn Why do people keep bashing EA with these games? It's 2K!

Yes, regardless of how big the game is, 2K should not be cheaping out on cartridges, especially when they have the audacity to charge more than Nintendo does. Yes, this will lead to 3rd parties abandoning the Switch due to 'poor sales.' And yes, everyone will blame Nintendo again for dooming their system when it's 3rd parties continuously giving us reasons to not support them. Even though the Switch should have more than 32GB storage, this doesn't excuse developers from not using appropriate sized cartridges.

Don’t care, already bought a 128gb sad card for the switch as I’ll need it when the virtual console opens it’s doors. 24gb is fine for me and I wouldn’t care either way, this game looks decent and it’s ground breaking WWE has come BACK to Nintendo.
I’m in

I’d expect the retail price to be cheap, also let’s 2K test the waters for future development and investment into dearer cartridges later on

@RedYoshi999 so just to be clear, youre ok for them to pass on to you the price of a 32gb card?

This is what happens with modern games. Especially when it is a port for a dramatically different system. Just get a MicroSD card and stop whining.

Feels bad? Kotaku just pointed out that the Xbone X with it's 1TB of storage can only hold around 8 downloaded titles.

@adh56 that is an unfair comparison, you can separate the multiplayer of doom and its single player because it has separate assets and essentially an entirely different game. But how can you cut of pieces of WWE or NBA since the single and multiplayer is basically the same. Same with LA noir, how can you separate that like doom? Make the second half downloadble and the first half in the cart? If you do that thenyou will you still have the same whining snowflakes say that the game will no longer be playable after 10 yrs blah blah blah.

@MartyFlanMJFan in UK Argos we’re doing a 128GB care for £70. Thought it was a bargain

@diwdiws as long as the retail cart is priced at £30-£40

@tourjeff There's also the argument that 2k is cheaping out with the 8gb carts. FIFA uses a 16gb as does Doom, Skyrim, even L.A. Noire. They don't have to pass on that much to the consumer yet here we are. They did this with NBA 2k as well.

Also, physical is not a dead media. Plenty of us still want it because competition with retailers equals far cheaper games than the digital RRP and we can actually resell, return or borrow them. Not to mention those of us with bad internet (most of Australia thanks to the shocking "NBN") don't want to be downloading 24GB patches for our physical games. And yes, I even went exclusively digital during the Wii U era and severely regret it now, after paying higher prices and not being able to resell games now.

@diwdiws They already have passed on the cost without even providing a larger card! 2K games retail for $100 in Australia where most of Nintendo's and other 3rd parties games retail for $80 or $90 for games like Zelda and DOOM. So where exactly is the extra $10-$20 going?

Does this game includes free upgrade to cable or fiber internet connection or do majority of gamers have to miss out on half a game?

@RedYoshi999 i dont know about Australia but the price im seeing in most retailers are still 60 usd. So with a 32 gb card i guess it would be probable around 80$?

@DESS-M-8 so the game will be priced what? 80-90$

The plot thickens. Lol!

Another poor showing from 2K. Besthesda really are showing how it should be done. Hope Skyrim and Doom get the sales they deserve

@MartyFlanMJFan Mario+Rabbids Kingdom Battle, Fire Emblem Warriors, Mario Kart and Odyssey, Zelda, ARMS, Splatoon 2, Xenoblade 2, DOOM, DB Xenoverse 2, Stardew Valley, Snipperclips, Shovel Knight, Rocket League, Puyo Puyo Tetris, Lego City, Overcooked, Azure Striker Gunvolt, Axiom Verge, Skyrim.....

Edit: Opps misread. I have a Sandisk 128gb. Got it on Amazon for like $40.

@Spoony_Tech LA Noire has passed on the cost to the consumer for the 16GB cart. It's more expensive on switch compared to other consoles

@NEStalgia Feel free to boycott this game on my behalf. 8GB cart and 3x that as a download defies common sense. I just bought 3 PS4 games on disc that I may have been able to download cheaper with my PS+ but I didn't want to deal with the large file sizes. 24GB on Switch WiFi is nuts, Nintendo really should have built an Ether net port into the $89.99 dock.

Nintendo dropped the ball with these stupid cards - now at this rate even people who got a 128GB card will have problems.

To be honest this is normal behavior from third party companies even on other systems. Both Xbox, ps and PC do the same thing when it comes to buying physical versions. They have the drm on the disc and then you download the rest of the game. Which was annoying and defeats the purpose of having a physical game.

@Heavyarms55
True dat ! Enough of people complaining about how much of a huge problem buying a microSD was for them !

@NoxAeturnus
I still like Physical media No Matter What.
Their existence still needed.
Imagine, how did you back up your documents or simple data if there is NO CD / DVD / whatever to keep your data save ?
Digital all the way is NOT the coolest things to do.
I don't care with convenience.
I would rather keep busy with my all carts when Switching my games with another one.

@Davidiam007
Are those 3rd party games typical games with very Huge Size (50 - 100 GB) ended up with that nasty behavior ?

Because there are some 3rd party games doesn't even have very Huge size ( 8 - 20 GB, No additional GB ) and usually their games are Simple / Cartoonish , Not Ultra OMG HD Realistic. Super Mario Odyssey itself just 5 GB , so small size compared with other 3rd party games.

I'm not buying their title based on this, and I'm going to bloody well let them know as much.

@Anti-Matter on Xbox one games usually were between 40-64gb. Both Xbox one and PS4 don't read from the disc. Disc is still needed to boot the game while the rest was read from the hard drive.

@Agramonte The only ball that was dropped was in the capacity vs price. I have a feeling that they will be sorting that sooner rather than later.

@rjejr Wow, this is just grotesque. Again, though, for now, the full extent of this problem is limited to 2k. This isn't so much about Switch but about 2K using Switch's card limitations as a reason to experiment on forcing PC policies to commandeer Nintendo's ecosystem. I never though I'd say this, but I hope all 3 of these 2k games fail on Switch colossally and force 2k to abandon Nintendo again. Their success would mean broader adoption of their idiotic policies. Sadly, we need WiiU level failure of these 2K titles to reinforce that consumers will not bite on it. It does mean the permanent loss of 2k, but so be it. Bethesda has it figured out right. Let's let them succeed. They have better games anyway.

This can't for any reason be accepted as normal, acceptable, or reasonable. Retail exists to deliver the game. Console gamers rejected that notion during the XBox One launch, and Nintendo fired executives and restrategiezed after that disaster. PS4 became #1 because they explicitly reacted to that reaction and immediately reversed their own identical policy. Now 2K is trying to force that very policy into Nintendo's ecosystem.

I suspect this will be a support nightmare from people buying retail games, people used to Nintendo's cartridges, and not understanding the massive download limitations. Nintendo tech support will be lit up like a Christmas tree this December.....

It really bugs me that people are pointing the finger at 2K here when the true and honest blame belongs to Nintendo. These downloads are gettin out of hand and it's up to Nintendo to provide as smooth a platform as possible for devs to port their games over.

Nintendo needs to open up the wallet and offer uniform pricing for cards up to 32gb. Will it affect their bottom line? Absolutely. But it will ensure a uniformed experience for the end user. That should be the goal. Bigger than 32gb, they should offer the uniform price for a set portion of the order. Split the cost of media with 3rd parties.

Nintendo, they want to support you, but it's hard when you tie their hands. We can't expect special treatment when we're less than 20% of the market with a more expensive storage medium

@MegaMel86 Cant' disagree that memory card pricing needs to be uniform. It's NES-era monopolistic for it not to be. They're offering the physical medium for retail publishers to sell their licensed games. I 100% agree it's up to Nintendo as part of the costs of licensing to simply include the correct size media as part of that licensing program.

Though I also do believe that 2k is using this to push a business model over and above just watching their bottom line. Nintendo's the root cause, but it IS telling that 2K seems to be the only company flagrantly abusing the good will of the consumer while the other publishers are mostly accepting the cost and adding a "switch tax" to protect the bottom line (possibly pulling in MORE profit than just the cost of the card as the card upgrade likely doesn't exceed $2 or so, while the $10 "tax" is quite a padding.) L.A. Noire, from 2K on the other hand charges the Switch Tax of $10 AND cheaps out on the card saving on that extra $2 max of card price difference.....i.e. a $12 price boost for less product.

Nintendo has failed on one hand. But 2K's exploitation of it for other purposes makes EA look saintly.

Also, shame on anyone here wishing for these games to fail. The more games on the system the more broad the user base. The more games on the system the more jobs in the industry.

Don't wish for people to lose their jobs and don't wish for the Switch to get less games

@garydbz25 That's what the GameCard IS. This is the company openly telling you "our bean counters decided that we wanted to keep a uniform cost ratio between platforms, therefore, we're not actually selling this game at retail, we're selling you an empty box and a download code."

@MegaMel86 Disagree there. Wishing for success of a very bad policy further encourages that policy. EA, Bethesda, Square Enix, etc. will see that success and say "it's acceptable to only buy 8GB cards and treat the Switch like it's Steam with download-only titles."

Microsoft tried it with XBox One. The consumers very vocally did NOT support it on day one. Executives were canned. The product was changed. A Consumer niche liked the new product.

That's what a free market is. They offer a product or service that offers poor value, and consumers decide not to support that product, allowing it to fail, allowing a different product or service that does offer what they value to take its place in success. If 2K's idiotic policy fails, and Bethesda's proper support of Skyrim succeeds, well then I guess Bethesda will be hiring more Switch development staff for Fallout 5 and TES 6 while 2K will be releasing some GTA6 Switch staff. Consumers shouldn't be expected to adopt every policy foisted at them in the name of saving jobs at the company that provided them. The USSR tried that. Didn't work out so well.

@NEStalgia Fair enough there. I just love the games industry and want to see it flourish. It pains me that Nintendo didn't squash these 2K policies once word got out about them to protect the experience of the consumer. We've seen devs abandon Nintendo before, they don't come back easily and 2K is a large dev. A key dev in the long term success of the system. For the first time since the cube we're getting full featured games on par with and at the same time as Xbox and PlayStation. That's insane. That's wonderful. That needs to continue. So yeah, the policy is garbage, but I've never played LA Noire. I haven't played NBA 2K in years. I'll pick up both as they're great games and hope Nintendo amends the policy on their end.

Appreciate the constructive dialogue. This is why I keep coming back to nintendolife

I ordered the 200 gb. It is what it is. If you had a cd you would have more data on your hard drive. With the cartridge, at least you don't have much to put on your hard drive.

@MegaMel86 Understandable, but part of seeing it flourish is to prune off the dead branches. If Atari in the E.T. era had been a commercial success, there would have been no NES, and no Switch, and the market would have collapsed probably permanently after people got burned out on what gaming was defined for them to be. Instead, the bad product was rejected, failed, and the good product took its place.

Similarly, on PC, the idea of physical media no longer really exists at all. Steam emerged, the push to downloads was made, and physical vanished forever, containing unlock codes on a piece of paper in an otherwise empty cardboard box. Console was the last bastion of physical, and now XBox and PS4 are moving ever more towards games as services. The cartridge represented, from the start, a product where you buy the cartridge and play it. And if we as consumers wish to shape the products we can buy, we can purchase the products that offer what we like and not purchase the products we don't like. The companies rejected will "fail", or in this case, withdraw support from the platform (it's too much to expect them to learn that their delivery, not their product was the failure.) If that means good games miss the platform because they were delivered in an undesirable way, that may mean lost support, but we have to decide if we'd rather have lost support from certain companies, or have those companies decide the platform will physically function in a manner we dislike. XBox One is the prime example in the games industry that consumer backlash can and does make a product better. In that instance it made two products better, both the XBox One and the PS4, and shaped the industry as a whole this generation. At least until now.

In 2K's case, that's kind of the problem, though. We're still not getting full featured games on part with the other systems. Or more to the point, we're essentially getting digital only release of games that are retail on those platforms. That's still not parity.

OTOH, Bethesda, also a large dev who's star is rising, has opted to offer ACTUAL support. Yes, Doom has the download thing, but only for multiplayer. That's a reasonable compromise that online play can feature larger downloads, but offline is playable from the box. It's not a zero sum situation. One big publisher is testing the waters with abusive anti-consumer policies as a foothold into the platform. Another big publisher is presenting traditional full support. If the wrong policy is rewarded, it's the consumer that is to blame. 2K's offerings here do need to fail if we don't mean to indicate we support and endorse their policy.

I was very excited for L.A. Noire, but won't be buying. I was still almost tempted to just "deal with it" (the infamous quote of Don Mattrick, the XBox executive that was sent packing shortly after the quote after consumers decided to not "just deal with it" and made their product launch a disaster.) But after seeing the trio of 2K games and the associated policy abuse.....no....that's not something I'll support or "deal with."

Definitely still agree on Nintendo NEEDING to preserve the integrity and uniformity of the platform and making the cartridge size difference their own cost, not their licensees. That cost needs to be treated internally as just an expense of doing Switch business. Hopefully this debacle will create enough bad PR they'll quietly amend their dealer agreements. But I also can't agree we should feel a responsibility to support 2k's effort to see just how far they can push the cost savings by delivering entirely non-functional "retail" products.

Meh, it's a mediocre game with micro transactions so I'll pass. Until they can outdone what AKI did with WWF No Mercy, WWE wrestling games are dead to me. I may rent this through Game Fly and play it on a boring weekend but that's it as far as me trying this game.

@NEStalgia "Their success would mean broader adoption of their idiotic policies. Sadly, we need WiiU level failure of these 2K titles to reinforce that consumers will not bite on it. It does mean the permanent loss of 2k, but so be it. ... This can't for any reason be accepted as normal, acceptable, or reasonable."

That's how I feel about the $29.99 XC2 season pass you were so happy about it. I guess 2K expects people should be happy they aren't making them pay $60 for the part of the game that's on the cart and then pay $30 more to download the 24GB of the game that isn't on the cart.

Why bother even releasing a physical cart, then? Why not just sell a box with a digital code? This will give them the same shelf presence at the local shop, but not the added waste of the physical cart. Why waste programming resources to figure out what 8GB to put in the cart?

I find this all very confusing.

And, what possible resale is there going to be on a cart that requires a 24GB digital download that might not even exist in a few years?

I don't get why people are shocked at file sizes. These games are getting bigger then the meduim can hold them for a reasonable price. Disc or cart as we push for bigger and better graphics/Audio will not cut it. And with people saying "Why not just use bigger cart sizes", does the RoI for what is a yearly sports game that will shoot down in value in 5 months be worth the investment? Are people willing to maybe go back to the SNES era of games costing 100 bucks to cover the cost of making the carts?

@rjejr From what I can tell the XC2 "season pass" is a new game that isn't even made yet (and may not even be started yet.) If the new content comes out a full year after most people already forgot about the game, that's a legit expansion pack, a new game for sale, not missing content Heck, who's still playing BotW, and the story expansion doesn't even exist yet. And nobody thought the game was too small If XC1 and XCX are anything to go by, by the time I'm done grinding the main game I wan't WANT that $30 expansion anyway....too much of a good thing filling my backlog. Nothing unacceptable about selling a $30 new add-on a year later that has some other stuff thrown in along the way. Charging $60 for a game that's not actually in the box at all......that's something different

"Thanks for buying Honda. Here's your tires. You'll have to weld the rest of the car yourself from this pile of steel. Watch the electrical, it's tricky."

@Hikingguy the heck with 20 years later. That's always a good argument but it doesn't resonate well with the younger folks who haven't lived long enough to understand why keeping something beyond getting the next new shiny thing might matter. The more immediate argument is: "If I buy a product, the product should work." A physical cart is just that, it's a game, and you can hold it in your hand and play it. It's not an unlock code to use on digital software. If I wanted to do that, I would have bought digital software.

I'm not anti-digital. I bought Splatoon 1 & 2, MK8D, ARMS, USFII, digital (or one physical one digital, two switches in the house.) Those games I wanted to have easy access to to pop into sessions with friends on a moment's notice. I weighed the pros and cons and chose the option that worked best for me as needed. It won't be there in 20 years, but neither will Splatoon or Mk8D matchmaking, so I accept that's a temporary game either way. But when a company offers a retail product....a game in a box....it should actually be a game in a box that fits the reason to buy retail. Not a few files from a game and a download code. that's not a retail game at all. It's a digital game with a cartridge shaped swag bonus.

@Arehexes "These games are getting bigger then the meduim can hold them for a reasonable price"

But that's just silly apologist rhetoric. How is the game bigger than the medium can hold at a reasonable price? It still needs to be held on a medium regardless. This is just them telling you you're going to buy the medium rather than them, AND pay for distribution costs! They're minimising their expenses because consumers such as yourself have accepted the role of shouldering the burden. And as a not so side benefit, they get to manage product life cycle and planned obsolescence.

Digital games are not "media free". The only difference is who shoulders the cost of the media. And along with shouldering the costs, we also grant them total control of where when and how we use it as well. A 32GB cart costs a few bucks. I'm sure everyone here would gladly pay the few bucks for the cart if given the option. Some publishers overcharge that to $10. And many here would still like that option. That they don't offer consumers an option and instead deliver an ultimatum "you'll take this pittance or leave it"....well...there we are.

Other games are doing this the right way. And those games will be receiving my money and play time. They might be losing a few bucks on the cart. But the consumer experience shall hopefully translate into consumer loyalty as well. Buy WWE2k and download 24GB. Buy Skyrim and play a 200 hour epic without doing a thing? One of these companies is working to earn our money. The other is not.

Maybe Bethesda will betray that trust with Wolfenstein. Or maybe they'll wait to see how consumers react to 2k's efforts and respond accordingly. I'd like Wolfenstein to be on the cart. So I'm not interested in encouraging 2k's behavior. And I'd like to encourage Bethesda's current behavior.

How much do game cards cost publishers? What is the bulk price difference between an 8GB game card and a 16/32GB one? Does anyone know?

Well said, @NEStalgia!

I'm not in to wrestling games, but if I were this news would make me hard-pass on it. I'd certainly tell others, too, if I knew anyone else who owned a switch. I get not going for a 32Gig Switch cartridge (disagree, but understand), but shipping on a 8Gig cartridge is just insulting to customers. Why bother with a physical cartridge if you are going to make the customer download 80% of the game anyway?

@NEStalgia "But when a company offers a retail product....a game in a box....it should actually be a game in a box that fits the reason to buy retail. Not a few files from a game and a download code."

With games more and more having day one patches, even content that was suppose to be on disc sent via patches. What is the point of physical? Go buy a disc Tony Hawk 5 and don't patch it a huge chunk of the game is missing.

"But that's just silly apologist rhetoric. How is the game bigger than the medium can hold at a reasonable price? It still needs to be held on a medium regardless. This is just them telling you you're going to buy the medium rather than them, AND pay for distribution costs! "

Well do you know the agreement 2K pays per download? How much do the carts cost? There are a lot of hidden costs the consumer doesn't know, yet acts like we do. Give me hard numbers or stop acting like you know the market.

"we also grant them total control of where when and how we use it as well. "

Well you are paying for a license and disc or digital you don't own the game.

" Buy Skyrim and play a 200 hour epic without doing a thing?"

Buy Skyrim week one and glitch the opening out so you can't progress more then once. Get a patch to fix bugs like to make another bug so I can't kill dragons. Oh yeah Bethesda earns my respect releasing another buggy Elder Scrolls game.

I'm still primarily blaming Nintendo because they are the ones who set game card manufacturing prices as well as the ones who chose to ship the Switch with a frustratingly small 32gb. 32gb was unacceptable with the wii u and it's proving to be even more ridiculous now with all of tbe mandatory installs for 3rd party games.

@NEStalgia "not missing content"

I've already made this argument a lot w/ Zelda BotW season pass, but that list of DLC for XC2 isn't all next years story. Horizon Zero Dawn, 1 game, 1 story pack 6 months later. And in between they've given several updates. For Free. To everyone who spent $60 on the game.

New game_ and hard mode, for free:
http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2017/07/horizon_zero_dawn_patch_1_30_adds_new_game_plus_bonus_trophies

Easy "Story" mode added, for free:
http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2017/08/horizon_zero_dawn_update_lowers_the_difficulty_for_casual_fans

These XC2 items are spread out over a year. And there isn't even an option to buy 1 or 2, like Hyrule Warriors had, and many other games w/ season passes as well. FE:W too I think. I don't like the "$30 for all or nothing for you" approach, too heavy handed.

So I'll probably wait now.

@flapjack-ashley reports have been published online, from interviews with developers, that a 32GB cartridge costs them 60% more than putting their game on a dual layer Blu-ray disc, which can hold a little over 50GB.

I do have to add that this is just the story that is doing the rounds currently, there's no factual proof from Nintendo, or the cartridge manufacturer available to either deny or confirm that number.

"something of an annoyance"???

It's a damn disgrace, THAT's what it is. In the end, it's somehow always the consumer that's burdened with the ever rising costs of engaging in their hobby, instead of the companies working out a better deal in order to offer the customer some quality and a completely finished and ready to play product.

It's also absolutely baffling to me how many people are apparently more than willing to drop their pants, bend over and accept this kind of highly detestable behavior as if it's the most normal thing in the world...

Well, 2K, I'm not one of those bender-overs: this will just be another insta-not-buy for me. Good day! (and a certain finger)

@diwdiws how about the publisher using a proper sized cart to fit the game on?

@Hikingguy Yep, baffling practices executed by multinationals screwing over the customer is the new normal. But of course, the modern, more forgiving customer will argue that this will come with the added benefit of being able to relieve yourself on the toilet a whole lot easier afterwards...

@Hikingguy Even convenience isn't king when you have to switch around SD cards like gamecards and unlike gamecards they don't have pretty labels telling you what's on them When we're talking about how "inconvenient" clicking in a postage stamp sized cartridge into a spring loaded slot is, why do we even bother breathing? It's so much effort....

@ThanosReXXX Considering the costs of a BD, 60% is a pittance. At million-unit scale it adds up, but per-individual sale, it's almost meaningless. It pleases the boardroom.

"It's a damn disgrace, THAT's what it is. In the end, it's somehow always the consumer that's burdened with the ever rising costs of engaging in their hobby"

I don't even mind the consumer being burdened with the rising costs in that, to be fair, the base price is actually decreasing since the retro days as it's not keeping up with real inflation including employee costs and corporate taxes in this case, so they're making less profit on each unit overall and I can understand the need for price increases, even aside from the absurd production costs in AAA "PC graphics" racing. However, I'd simply rather see the quality of service remain consistent and have the REAL costs passed on as they are than this endless shell game of moving the parts around so the consumer gets an awful experience but doesn't notice they're paying $100 for a game anyway. The "Switch Tax" ranting probably played a role. Of course charging a $10 fee for 16GB carts isn't really justified anyway....

@rjejr I think it helps to keep context on the history of the franchise though for what some of this means. Looking at this list, pretty much everything before the story expansion is what would otherwise pass as "pre-order bonsues from select retailers" (that I always get and never actually bother even plugging the unlock code in for because it's so worthless to the experience.) None of that is actually worth paying anything for except maybe the challenge mode which is still almost a year away. The rest is cheap filler stuff to give you "something" while you wait for your paid content that amounts to almost a "Nintendo backed Kickstarter" with a 1 year pre-order. Is that "new rare blade" actually going to change your game? Would you pay $0.99 for it alone? Meh.

The extra quests. Quests in Xenoblade are just MMO quests as it is, and there's more in the game than you can really hope to be bothered with other than for completionists. It's just some completionist fodder. The real meat there is the $30 story expansion next year, and some filler swag to remind people they paid money. Personally I'd rather they just did the expansion next year, didn't charge for it until next year, and dropped the swag entirely. The milestones are more marketing to keep it in the news cycle than real rewards. Buy XC2, play XC2, and buy the expansion next year if it looks worthwhile. If it's like BotW I'll be burned out on the game long before I consider spending more money on it

@Hikingguy Yah, I don't understand the "modern forgiving consumer" at all. I don't think people need to be greedy, demanding jerks to companies that everything must be done their way, but this concept that companies exist for the greater good....... And sadly there's this bipolar thinking today. One group believes business is inherently evil and must be purged and no business should exist, and the other group thinks the larger the corporation, the more benevolent, and they're just a bunch of hippies here to make heaven on earth. That won't end well.

Since the large multinationals are consolidating everything into just a few fiefdoms worldwide, and are always on a quest for absolute efficiency, I can't imagine much of this will end very well at all. Ultimate efficiency doesn't mesh well with actual human lives.

@Hikingguy Well, as long as some people stay awake to at the very least protect themselves and their loved ones. We obviously can't save the entire world, so... (or rather: so be it)

@NEStalgia Hey, don't shoot the messenger. It's just what I've read. I also think it's yet another ridiculous excuse that they are more than eager to use to validate their disgusting, customer-unfriendly practices...

As if they don't already make WAY more money than (m)any of us will ever see in our entire lifetime...

@NEStalgia Oh, and actually, when purchasing bulk units, that percentage actually goes DOWN, so it'll be cheaper for all parties involved, while still being able to make a decent profit.

It's the very reason why wholesale is often done by the box instead of by single units...

@NEStalgia @Hikingguy Fret 'ye not, me online friends. Perhaps 'tis thus that Nintendo would find it in their hearts to soon provide us with The New Nintendo Switch, equipped with not one, but two Micro SD card slots, giving us bendy and agreeable customers even more storage space opportunities for spending money on extra storage media...

@ThanosReXXX Well, we're talking about 2K, so while they make so much money, the majority of it is made solely on the GTA franchise. A series about a bunch of crooks and robbers that can get away with bloody murder (literally) where there's really little actual gameplay at all beyond roaming around, doing "stuff" and hanging out at strip clubs. I'm starting to think the characters are just aliases for the executive board

I assumed the 60% was the wholesale price....it probably is....but still, what's a BD cost at at scale, $1.80 or so (just to stamp the lacquer, not including box, shipping, warehousing, etc which is identical for BD and gamecard), So to save a buck eight per unit the consumer has to buy a retail SD card AND use their own bandwidth.... Why not just charge us $2 and call it even? I do agree with you, it's less the savings and more about pushing their digital-only philosophy which has much more gains than the measly cartridge savings.

@Hikingguy you know I keep hearing about how the millennials are into the old arts and rejecting the modern tech. Boutique glass blowers and smithies, and barkeeps and such. And Nintendo's ads keep telling us Millennials are their target market..... so shouldn't EVERYONE love old school cartridge clicking?

@ThanosRexxx I suddenly have the desire to smack you upside the face with a gigantic oversized paint roller, and I do not know why....

@Hikingguy You DO know that I was joking, right? I would absolutely abhor a version of the Switch that would do even more to accommodate developers instead of gamers...

@NEStalgia Wh.. why.... what... ?? Whadidaido?

Nice profiling of 2K, though...

@NEStalgia And so much for respecting your elders...

Behold the future lol

@NEStalgia I kept wanting to argue w/ all of your XC2 season pass comments but find myself agreeing with all of it. I think 1 of us switched sides.

@Hikingguy I don't think "more local storage" is a solution for "retail packages contain no usable product unless you download a digital product instead" Switch is a portable console. Let's ask Verizon what they think of 28GB downloads over their hotspots That would only be, what, $120 in overages?

Even digital music is a compromise. The "CD quality" formats aren't. If you have proper audio hardware that can outresolve the tracks, they're metallic and grating. You can of course store ACTUAL CD quality audio digitally but it's much larger and most music sales don't do that. Of course even CD was a downgrade. It improved the noise floor over tape and vinyl, but compressed the resolution. Real vinyl-or-better grade digital audio is real, and is wonderful....convenience + quality. But it's pricy....and eats storage like crazy There's no free lunch. Usually you can't get good AND convenient....and when you can', it's also premium pricing! I admit, I don't miss messing with the needle to rewind to the previous track

@rjejr lol!

@Hikingguy Well, you're smarter than the average Joe, but I see that the brain cogs still experience a tiny hiccup where the whole purpose of the Switch and its cartridge medium is concerned:

Like the fact that practices like 2K's are defeating the entire purpose and benefit of the Switch having cartridges, so is the idea that the Switch should need more internal storage space.

That is SO not true. It wouldn't NEED more storage space, if companies would simply put their ENTIRE game on a single cartridge, or two cartridges, for all I care.

Internal storage should then only be necessary for patches, saves and the odd DLC, and that can also be redirected to the extra memory media, something that actually IS normal, as long as it's used as in the later portable Nintendo consoles (or Sony portables, if you will).

Customers that prefer digital, can then freely choose to invest in extra storage media, and customers that prefer physical would (and should) never be bothered with both such practices and costs. It should be a CHOICE, not a mandatory thing. They should just be able to insert the cartridge and play, no additional shenanigans...

And making games unplayable without these "partial" downloads, that's not just crossing the line, that's completely erasing it.

@NEStalgia Your music story reminded me of the whole Mini Disc scam: in order to be able to compress music to fit onto that, they made it so that when recording, it "removed" (actually, it just didn't record it in the first place) all the lowest and highest tones that we badly equipped humans can't hear.

However, what they didn't realize (or maybe they did and hoped we more discerning customers wouldn't notice), is that although we can't actually HEAR these separate low and high notes/tones, they DO add to the whole sound pallet, making it complete and more vibrant.

It was one of the many reasons why I never bought one of these crappy devices...

@Hikingguy @ThanosReXXX The TLDR summary Thanos is getting at is:
Switch - Cartridges = (PSPGo*PSVita)

@ThanosReXXX Thanks for the info.

@NEStalgia TL;DR? Man, people are getting more easily tired of reading a couple more sentences every day, methinks...

If you want to explain something correctly and clearly, sufficient words are needed. I'm not one of those turbo-language/abbreviations/WhatsApp synonyms guys...

@flapjack-ashley You're welcome.

@ThanosReXXX Fortunately that was never an issue because less people bought a MiniDisc player than a Vita

But yeah, I remember that. But that problem didn't go away. What do you think the Fraunhoffer algorithm does? The exact same thing, cranked to 11. And that is now the standard in audio! Fortunately audiophiles are a big enough niche that there's a lot of companies catering to that market too, so you can get the good stuff easily enough still....

Of course most consumer reproduction equipment doesn't actually PLAY those frequencies anyway so for most it's a net wash. ULF, played properly can be felt, despite not being heard. And UHF, I've heard a few explanations but the best I've heard was from JBL Northridge engineers explaining that it actually still moves the hairs on the body which though seemingly imperceptible are still felt and processed by the brain and makes up part of the space of reality (the same way animals can know a storm is rolling in while it's still bright and sunny without a cloud in the sky.)

@NEStalgia Yeah, you can get the good stuff alright, but GETTING the good stuff isn't really the issue, it's the amount we have to pay for it to be able to get it...

@Hikingguy Glad to be of assistance...

@Hikingguy Vorbis is definitely a much higher quality codec and on the high quality settings really can be very close to true CD audio/FLAC. But most places aren't distributing that, sadly. Of course the really high quality stuff, the 24-bit that equals or surpasses vinyl....that's a whole other thing (over a gig per album is normal there.) It only really exists for non-pop music though (pop is so over-sampled and compressed the quality becomes irrelevant.)

@ThanoxRexxx No kidding.....I've dumped more coins into hdtracks than you've dumped into Metal Slug cabinets!

@NEStalgia I wouldn't be too sure of that. There used to be a lot of Metal Slug cabinets with my initials in the high score lists around these here parts...

@Hikingguy MP3 and AAC are probably split these days. Though they're both based on Fraunhoffer which is woefully outdated. FLAC is good. It's actually just a pure WAV copy of the CD, compressed like a zip file, so nothing is actually lost, it's a genuine CD inside. Though I'm still one of those nuts that never really liked CDs either....they're very....shallow... 24/96 or 24/128 really does sound more "real" if you have appropriate playback equipment. But if you were once a vinyl fan, it's worth a play if you do. (If the RECORDING was good enough to warrant it of course.....so much music it doesn't matter because recordings are so sloppy these days!)

....waiting for Ryu_Niiyama to notice this hifi conversation without being tagged in 3...2....1..... She travels the same circles of obscenely priced audio reproduction equipment....

I hear you though....I haven't been paying attention to it for some time. Might go back to it if games publishers go the way of digital unlocks though. I never get tired of fine music in detail!

Comparisons to what MS tried with XB1 don't really add up. That was a system wide disturbance in the market, and it was easier for people to say "If this policy is enacted, I will not buy that system." It's easier to reject a treasure chest when you don't know what's inside, but this is treasure, it's shiny and despite its poor distribution policy if it's a decent game it will sell. People who want to play it are less likely to care about the principle of rejecting a poor policy. While I respect the boycotters, I also wonder how many of them will actually refuse to buy the game, and how many will be unable to resist. The average purchaser may not even realize what's going on here. Many people will probably buy it, download the day one update, and start playing without ever noticing because that's what they're already used to doing with many other games.

If this game doesn't succeed on Switch, 2K may pull support, but I doubt they would connect the lack of sales to this policy BECAUSE it's on a Nintendo system. They'd just cite that Nintendo gamers don't want their games, just like 3rd parties have been saying for years (regardless of the truth of the statement).

I see a no win situation here, but I've been seeing it for a while. Physical media simply isn't physical media anymore. It's an illusion.

@adh56 so you are ok with them passing on to you the price of a 32gb cart? Who the hell would buy a WWE title for 80-90$?

@NEStalgia "JBL Northridge engineers "

I feel the need to make a "it's game storage, it isn't rocket science" joke now.

@diwdiws Why do you assume a 32GB cart will cost an extra $20 or $30? With the way these things are mass produced, it would likely cost 2K no more than $5 per cart and that's being generous.

This has got to stop.... In ten years when servers are defunct? What then?

@diwdiws ?? Eh? No. That would equate to $40-$50