Here Are the Key Lessons that Nintendo Learned from the Wii U

They seem to be doing good so far.

The Wii U and its whole existence was marred by several harsher problems than just software gaps and a lack of portability.

Here's one I'm hoping for: Fairer pricing for virtual console/retro titles. I get that the arcade series has a lot more going for it including online leaderboards and other enhancements, but maybe it's time to adjust those things, especially since it's likely not going to transfer purchases for discounts like Wii U did. How about a top-to-bottom lower price point?

Smash Bros Deluxe confirmed for Dezember!

Doug Bowser

One thing they've definitely improved upon is what people want from the flagship 3D Mario game, that's for sure.

More features please. It's annoying that you have to go to their older systems for things like Virtual Console.

I think it sums it up. I believe in 10 years, we will look back at the Wii U games library and say «how did this not succeed?» But the fact is, the machine itself is cumbersome, and the release of games was not well planned out. What was it, like 18 AA games on launch day, and then a year of nothing? What if they instead released one game each week for 18 straight weeks?

They forgot a few things though, like how to make decent controllers. The Joy-cons are absolutely awful. They're beyond awful. I don't know how anybody can like them. They're tiny, cramped, uncomfortable, the buttons are tiny, the analogue sticks aren't great either, no D pad, they feel really cheap. And holding them sideways is even worse. The best way of using them was when they were attached to the screen and when I say best, it was still awful. Honestly, it's the first time I've ever hated a Nintendo controller. A Nintendo controller! They're usually brilliant at making controllers. I reacted the same way as this guy and I share his other views in the video.

I was laughing the first time I got my hands on them which was only about a week or two ago. Not because it was funny but because it was embarrassing, I thought this has got to be a prank. Seriously, how do people like them? I will have to buy a Pro Controller now when I buy a Switch. I have more choice words to describe the Joy-cons but I can't use them here. Putting it politely, they're garbage!

Nintendo should work on offering some type of browser like get Firefox on the Switch. Also having Netflix and Plex doesn't hurt either.

@Paddle1 I wouldn’t hold my breath for Virtual Console, at least not until Nintendo is finished with the NES and SNES Classic Mini. I’d guess next fall they’re ready.

As much as I loved the Wii U, I feel like The Switch does a WAY better job at game release pacing. Now, I know for sure the Switch will have enough releases throughout the year and beyond to give me hope for it's future.

Nintendo seem really good at reflection! Wii U was a home console that was closer to the end of the last gen as opposed to the beginning of the new one. Switch having portability lessens the direct comparison of home consoles and allows it to stand on it's own merits.

"We had a glut [of game releases] up front, and then kind of went dry for quite some time. From a first-party perspective at least, we were very intentional and deliberate about Switch. We launched with The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, which obviously was incredibly successful, drove hardware, and brought a bunch of new people into the franchise. And then followed that with Mario Kart, straight through the series of games we've released since then."

2 Wii U games.

Wii U didnt get the love it deserved.

There's a lot of mistakes with the Wii U that they've so far avoided with the Switch. The big thing for me is branding. The toxic Wii U name and lack of advertisements caused some people to get confused and think that it was just a Wii accessory. Whereas Switch is a much cooler name which helps to explain the big selling point of the console.

Wii U had great potential, but it was definitely downsized by like 50% of what it could've been. The Switch however was given straight to the point having some of the charm the previous consoles had, but also something unique and something everyone would want. That was what was important to the console. Nobody needed another Wii. The gamepad was like an added accessory.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Technically, BotW was released on the Switch the same time as the Wii U. Either way, not everyone bought a Wii U (as sale numbers will show). The fact that these two games, along with other Wii U titles are being ported, and sometimes updated, to the Switch is a good idea. The Switch as has a way bigger audience then the Wii U ever did. It's just fact.

It is obvious that their situation has improved immensely, but i wouldn't say that they learned every lesson they could:

• Online interactions are still very bare bones and could (should) have been addressed by now. The Smart Device interconnection is not the worst idea, but its implementation is rather half-assed.
  While i do praise the asynchronous parental control system (ingenious idea) the voice chat option is rather poor.
• The OS is, at least in my opinion, a huge step back. Having a screenshot share function with social media connection was a smart move, especially on the PR side, but not offering the respective apps or a standard browser feels half-assed.
  The console itself feels less like an experience itself.
• The issue with the VC has been addressed till the cows go moo. This should have been a no brainer, seeing how popular the feature was on 3 other platforms already. This should have had a higher priority since its also a good tool to fill the gaps in between major releases.

@Shade_Koopa Potentially, yes, but not factually yet it has a bigger audience.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Aw, come on. I used the Joy-Con myself recently and they feel just fine. I'm used to playing DS/3DS alot, so that's probably why I had no problems with them, even holding them sideways feels perfectly fine, if a bit small.

@TheMisterManGuy I own a DS and it's perfectly fine control wise but no, the Joy-con's are hideous. And sideways is just so bad, you absolutely need the strap but it's still terrible.

I'm glad I own a Wii U. In addition to having awesome exclusive games, it's a great legacy system. I hadn't owned a Nintendo home console since the NES. The Wii U allows me to catch up on most of the biggest hits from the past and full Wii BC.

I do own a Switch, but, so far, only have 2 games for it. It's okay. I don't game on the go. It's nice to play in bed or when my wife is playing the Xbox. Hopefully Mario will be as great as it looks and Nintendo has some huge surprises in store for 2018. The schedule after Odyssey lacks some luster.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE I think you are in the minority here man, 2 seperate joy-con are fantastic to play several games with, sideways is not as good as a full set but I never disliked it for a fitting game like snipperclips. It's all about different configurations for different games. And sure, a pro controller is better than 2 joy-con in a grip. The directional buttons are hit and miss per game as well, puyo puyo tetris works perfect with those, but street fighter not so much.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Maybe you just have big hands. They felt just fine to me. Be it detached, sideways, or in the Grip. The Grip was actually a pleasant surprise especially, to the point where I'd go as far as to say I wouldn't need a Pro Controller for most games.

@TheMisterManGuy Exactly

@TheMisterManGuy I do have big hands, I'm a tall person, well over 6 foot. That might be part of the problem but to me, they feel tiny, terrible and cheap.

The absolute most important thing for Nintendo to do is to keep the quality games flowing. Be it big 1st party titles, 3rd party titles or more and more indie games.

The OS speed with the Wii U would have been a minor complaint... if that was the only issue. But part of the problem with the Wii U was also how un-intuitive it all was. The Gamepad was a neat idea, but the home menu should have been one screen, either the pad or the screen, not mixed with both. The layout also should have been more straightforward. The Wii U just felt mixed up.

Finally the design of the Switch is so much more comfortable than the gamepad. The Gamepad was bulky, and felt more like a Fisher Price toy than a top of the line gaming device. The Switch is comfortable to hold, and it really feels like the gaming tablet that it is.

Now if Nintendo could rework the dock for the Switch, give us system transfer, and a new version of the Switch with more built in memory, we'd be golden.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Tiny? Yes. Cheap? No. How can you say they feel "cheap"? Too small? Well that's what I thought too...especially the first time I was saw them and had them in my hands. But now, they have grown on me. I love laying down and play with them...or use the grip. I like them more than my pro controller. But that's just me.

The Switch OS is a very nice experience and a huge improvement over Wii U. Being portable, it's even more critical for it to be responsive.

The software lineup has also been much better than Wii U for a launch year. It will probably depend on Mario Odyssey but surely 2017 is up there with Nintendo's best years in terms of software.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Nintendo Switch already surpass the sales of the Wii U (when you compare the launches of each console at least)? To me, that's sound like there 's a much bigger audience for the Switch then the Wii U. Also, sounds like a fact to me.

A lot of players never got a Wii U and/or played the games on the Wii U console. Porting, and sometimes upgrading (deluxe/special/remix/etc), from the Wii U to the Switch means many Switch players will be playing those Wii U ports for the first time. Ports may not be a big favorite of yours, but it's what a majority of players want.

@AlternateButtons I agree that the Joy Con are great.

@AlternateButtons That or he has "The Underdog Syndrome" or something. I mean, not hard to argue that the Wii U was an "underdog" console.

@Shade_Koopa Wii U sold a little over 13 million units. The Switch has sold half that amount.

They have many times said the same thing. We'll see. Wii U was easy to pick up and play, that hasn't changed. Wii U wasn't bad, the name was. Sometimes it's just timing, marketing or luck. Next year after Christmas time will be decisive for Nintendo and Switch. Now with Super Mario Odyssey around the corner everything is fine. Third-party games/versions and hardware limitations have been disappointing to an extent.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE I think the joycon are great on the console, but yes separate they suck. Kids dont mind them though. No good for adults, agreed there. The first thing I did was buy a pro controller, I only use the joycon on the bus.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE While the Wii U may have sold more. But you have to think timescale. Also even if 13 million were sold how many of those users also bought the Switch?

Peronsally I think its good that they port some games from Wii U. As many titles may not of been enjoyed by people that simply skipped the Wii U. Or would you have them rush development on new titles?

@SLIGEACH_EIRE I'm aware that they've sold over 13 million units. But I'm comparing their respected launches. As the "Switch Era" isn't over yet, that's the only thing we can really compare at the moment.

The Switch sold about 4.7 Million units in the first quarter right? And the Wii U's was what..390,000 units or so the first quarter (feel free to correct me if I"m wrong though).

Think it's a safe bet to say the Nintendo Switch has the bigger audience.

@crimsontadpoles I totally totally agree. It was a tricky enough prospect to explain in the first place.

Wii U is so obtuse - it's hard to say even and contains absolutely no clue at all as to what it is.

I bought one recently to give to my kids at Christmas and no one I've mentioned it too (a fair few people) has even heard of it!! A major console release from the most famous video game company - and it's invisible!! What!!

It's so mixed up - I love that they kept the Wii motes useable and created some amazing multiplayer games so groups can all play together. But the pitch and the brand was that it was all about 'U' - and only the latest Wii more pluses are really useable anyway - eh?!

Ideally they'd have found a brand that was unique and promoted the dual screen play. The Wii brand was tarnished by that point although it did retain huge market reach. Maybe they should have gone all out - ditched the Wii brand and come out with new controllers. But it would have been an expensive prospect - and they were unable to drop the price by much at all.

A brilliant mess in many ways. I'm really looking forward to using it and it's legacy games line up is pretty stellar so we'll have a ton of fun with it for years.

They've done a massively better job marketing the Switch - it's night and day. I love how they've gone about it. That's one big lesson they've definitely learned.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE
The Wii U gamepad was an excellent controller. But every controller needs getting used to. If you actually played a Switch game for a decent while you'll notice that eventually you get the hang of it even with huge hands, and I can say that after playing over 250+ hours. In regard of size it's arguably better than holding a 3DS. I have a pro controller but only use it for big games like Breath of the Wild and Splatoon, but even those games play just fine with joy-cons. Don't be so quick to judge and don't be so easily influenced by what you come across on the internet, join the future!

@SLIGEACH_EIRE @Sir_Anthony You can't convince him Anthony for some reason he has this relationship with the Wii U that means he has to bash the switch any way possible. I'm horrified that he is from Ireland. You are the one bad spot in Ireland. You make me be ashamed to be Irish sometimes with the garbage that you say all the time.

@Sir_Anthony I meant to say you can't convince him Anthony but I forgot to type that part my bad nothing against you!

@Sir_Anthony Very well said.

This basically breaks down to the two shortcomings that people have been putting the Wii U's lack of success down to for years... they done a poor job of properly conveying what the Wii U was about... and they relied too heavily on third-party releases to flesh out the release schedule.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Sadly, I must agree. I will only buy the Switch when there is a decent pair of Joy-Cons attached, like that GameCube mock-up, for example.

By the way, I play a lot of Mario Kart 8 deluxe with friends and know the Joy-Cons. It always a relieve playing Mario Kart Double Dash with GameCube Controllers.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE The joy-cons are lovely. They work perfectly in handheld; they're comfy in the grip; and to top it off they're perfect for two-handed Splatoon 2 - infinitely better than the gamepad for Splatoon.

I can't wait to get one. I love the fact that the Target up the street from my apartment always has them in stock. The display case was full of them when I went a few days ago. I'll know exactly where to go when I'm ready to get one. By then, I'll have Mario, Zelda (my first since the GC Zelda), Rabbits and lots of indies to chose from!!! Talk about an embarrassment of riches! 😂

Nintendo do a lot of things brilliantly! They also however do some things extremely badly. My love of Nintendo has fluctuated over the years because there is always this stubbornness within the company to do it their way. It's lead to some awesome surprises over the years but also meant some crushing lows too. Nowadays I like that they decidedly choose to be different they are unique in a sometimes boring marketplace (I'm just referring to when the games market gets stale with samey games). I think the key word is innovation when it comes to Nintendo and so far the Switch is going really well. Hopefully over the next few years it'll go from strength to strength. Now I'm not saying that they have got everything right recently but they are doing exceedingly well at the moment and I'm enjoying all the positive buzz that seems to be continuing months after release. Pretty good time to be a Nintendo fan anyway! 😃

@SLIGEACH_EIRE the controllers don't take to long to get used to at all even with big hands. The Wii U however, that was crazy unergonomic (don't think that is actually a word)! My left hand used to cramp so bad! I avoid that thing at all costs. So did you include the Wii U Pro controller as a mandatory initial costing when you bought the Wii U, like you have done with the Pro controller on the Switch?

Account system is still the same: Lose your Switch, buy a new Switch and re-buy ALL the digital games again.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE As always, you are out of touch. Joy con controllers are cleverly designed and awesome.

@crimsontadpoles to this day, people don't know what the Wii U is. By the time the Wii U was three years old, when the topic of video games came up around me, if somebody mentioned the Wii U, or knew what I was talking about when I brought it up, it was jarring!

For the first time since the launch of the Wii, I feel like Nintendo has really learned from their mistakes.

Whilst the slow OS and game droughts were factors in the Wii u's failure, there were others:

1) The gamepad feature offered little improvements in the majority of games.

2) Was notoriously challenging to develop for.

3) Was not really distinguishable enough from competitors.

4) Marketing was poor.

5) It had limited appeal and was a questionable concept to begin with.

Have they learnt. Only time will tell

Great to see the independents jumping on board, so far these guys games are on par with tripped A titles my list of Switch to Xbox games to buy is four times as long

@SLIGEACH_EIRE sorry for your experience, but that's your experience and that of a portion of the audience. Others have had different experiences; mine suggests JCs are some of the most comfortable Nintendo controllers out there. Responsive sticks instead of pads (and even Vita's "mushrooms" feel less comfy in comparison, not to mention they're not clickable), the ability to put your hands down and apart can shave off quite some wrist strain, each JC boasts a SNES tier button set in miniature form but still feels fine to hold (my hands are hardly small either).

It's a "cheap" wireless controller with varied motion controls, IR camera and NFC sensor packed in. Some complain about lack of analogue triggers, but how mandatory are those? People keep complaining about the alleged inability to control potential racing sims well... while the new and very much DS4-controlled Gran Turismo Sport goes and adds an "accelerate with X, brake with Square" scheme (and trying it in the demo last night proved it's more than usable). So is there a gripe with JCs that can actually claim objectivity, certain known cases of flawed assembly aside?

Personal experience can mar personal impression alright - but it's not enough to warrant "garbage" assessment by itself.

"The Wii U was notorious for being quite sluggish."
Wow, people must have little patience. I've never once thought that the Wii U was slow after they updated the OS.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE The Switch is not for you man. Move on.

@setezerocinco I think Smash Bros remaster is going to fill out a month next summer, as MK8 did this year.

This article misses out on some of the facts.

1. At the WiiU launch and in the first year or two there was a shortage of good games to play. It took Nintendo a while to fix the issue.

2. The WiiU was not marketed well pre launch. I understood what it was all about but many others did not. A failure by Nintendo there.

3. Few games used the WiiU hardware features well. The ones that did were released late in the console’s life.

4. Porting games to the WiiU was not fun. It is much easier on the Switch.

5. Nintendo did not fully embrace Unity and Unreal on the WiiU. The Switch does embrace both however.

6. NintendoLand had half of its content require the Wiimote which was not even sold in the WiiU box. That is not a good idea for a game packed in with the console.

7. The ports on the WiiU early on were just that. Nothing extra added in. No reason to rebuy the WiiU port of an old game everyone played years ago as it’s the same or worse than the original. The Switch ports all have added content unique to the Switch. Sure it’s not much extra content but it’s there and gives people more of a reason to rebut the games.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Everyone has their own preferences, certainly, but as far as I’m concerned, the Joy-Cons are fine. Are they perfect? Noooo. But considering how flexible they are, I’m certainly impressed at how well they work. I have pretty big hands, too, and even at that, I have no problem using the Joy-Cons for hours on end. I even have a Pro controller, and I kind of feel like it was a waste of money, considering how rarely I use it.

@RainbowGazelle compared to the loadtime of pc, ps4 and xbox one, the wii u is pretty fast. But the Switch loads up as fast as a pre-internet era console. You literally mash the same button a few times and you're playing zelda in less than 30 seconds. Turning on my wii u, I know I have time to grab a drink or a snack. Then I load a game on it, even a VC game, I can whip out my phone and surf for half a minute. The Switch has nearly no loading times on first party, arcade, and indie games. AAA 3rd party still has big load times because optomization is a word never used by them.

@eltomo because it doesn't deserve any love ... horrible and stupid console ... ewwww and it was freaking sloowwwwww

the only thing mad me play with it is nintendo exclusive ... with nintendo wii U i moved to ps4 and xbox one and i like the ps4 overall anyway

@Sligeach_Eire, you are such a tiresome bore, 90% trolling comments, 10% equally dull and worthless comments. You really need to get a life as you constant attention seeking distracts greatly from any genuine debate on the forum. Come back when you've something worthwhile to say.

Comment section gone to heck? Sounds like a tuesday.

The biggest difference I've seen between the WiiU and Switch is that I see more adverts per month for the Switch than I did for the lifetime of the W1iiU.

As for the JoyCon whining. They have to be small to fit on the console when playing off TV. If they were bigger then how would that work as a handheld system? Pretty obvious why they needed to be so small.
Paired with the joycon grip/holder the actual controller is pretty decent - so much so I haven't bothered getting a pro-controller (despite over 1000 hours play). Yeah, on their own they are small for some adults, but it is really easily rectified by adding the straps or buying a pair of joycon grips for about £9/$12. Or get a pro-controller, funny how people forget a pro-controller was also an option for the WiiU (and Wii).

Funny how the loudest haters of the joycons seem to be people who don't actually have a Switch nor used the joycons, but just sheep bleating after seeing a couple of youtube clips.

@Alikan Is your Wii U updated? Mine boots up in a few seconds. Xbox One is super fast with instant-on, also known as stand-by, about two seconds and super easy to use (on updated OS).

@Fazermint, I don't post really, but I do read the site eveyday and for my sins the comments section also. Surely I can't be the only one sick of the comments being dragged down by pointless and deliberatel trolling comments by Sligeach :{

I got my switch at launch with BotW, played about 20hours and just didn't turn it on again.

But I bought SDV at the weekend and I haven't put it down. Started to play the system on my way o work on the train and bus! It's an amazing system and has so many games coming. SDV was the click for me. Can't wait for Odyssey in a few weeks now.

The Switch joycons are fine, but yes, it's much better playing with the pro. My hands do cramp up after a long time playing with the joycons, but sure, no bother.

They’ve “started” listening. We’ll wait for GameCube VC before they truely listen.
Netflix, YouTube, web browser, game arrangement and a flashy eShop will convince me in full they are listening.

Don’t get me wrong I LOVE the switch

@jswhitfield8 The funny thing is that Wii U used to be a great console in here until Switch's arrival turned it into an horrible console, apparently. A bit overblown. The main difference is that Switch is a hybrid console.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE How do people like them?

Chances are most of them play with the Joy-Con Holder.

@DavyP I hear you. Honestly though, I'm also tired of the people who react to those kinds of polarizing posts. Just leave it be.

Also we could sure use a comment moderator.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE
I LOVE JOY CONS BETTER THAN WII U GAMEPAD !

It's a Better version of Wiimote !

I can see you still have NO LOVE 100% about Nintendo Switch.

Here, lemme give you....

MOON SPIRAL HEART...... ATTACK !!

@Fazermint, I get what you're saying and second the comment re moderation. Clearly though if numerous people are being driven to react to one persons constant drivel then that individual should be dealt with by the site admins.

I suggest if an admin is reading this that they have a brief skim through Sligeach's comments and it becomes apparant his motivations are to troll and agitate on an unprecedented scale.

I expect there is some underlying physcological issue at play.

@Anti-Matter
"JOY CONS (...) Better version of Wiimote"
But Wii Remote is more ergonomic.

@BlueOcean
From the size, yes. Wii mote is bigger than Joy Cons.
But from technology, Joy Cons feels better than Wii mote.

Only had a Switch 3 days and the joy-cons are fantastic. My only issue is the minus button really, I've been playing Zelda split joy-cons only, chilling in a bean bag with my arms at my side and it is such a comfortable way to play. You can also scratch your nose while not letting go of the controls!

@DavyP I'm not defending him but, first of all, people insulting and disrespecting others because of their opinions should be dealt with. Those are the worst people in real life and in here.

@eltomo totally agree. I love WiiU

Thanks for all the feedback. But sorry, I will never like the Joy-Cons. Sure it's neat that they've packed a lot of technology into them but I stand by my remarks. When you pick up a controller it should feel comfortable, ergonomic, almost fit like a glove. You shouldn't have to "get used to them". Even picking up a Wii remote(and nunchuk) for the first time, that was so different back then, but it made sense.

@BlueOcean, that's a very fair point. How-ever outright abuse seems to occur in isolated cases. Where as Sligeach is almost relentless in his clamour for attention. I find it weird and it really detracts from the good debates that go on in the comments section.

How do they explain voice chat? As it's currently worst than Wii u

@the8thark I'm pretty sure most old ports on the Switch sell primarily off of it's portability right now.

@MegaVel91 Looks at Vel silly What's a Joy-Con? (That's how rarely I use mine, but when I do get local co-op opportunities, I'll slot them into that holder and just play that way.)

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Kinda over-exaggerating here pal.

@jswhitfield8 Yeah, I think that they say these things because it's easier than to admit what didn't work and what still doesn't work. Nintendo rarely admits anything. Wii U is a great console but at the same time Switch is somehow similar regarding power and early games so they need to bash Wii U era a bit just to make the Switch era look much better in comparison, instead of focusing on what still needs improvement like account management, online services, Virtual Console, etc. How can people believe marketing/PR rubbish so easily is beyond me. Besides, Nintendo is celebrating so early.

@Ardisan Nope. If anything I could say more about the Joy-Con's and more about the Switch. Like worse voice chat, no Miiverse, no browser, terrible 32GB on memory storage, ports galore, inferior 3rd party ports, poor 3rd party support, still no Virtual Console, etc, etc, etc.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE The JoyCons are awesome IMO. Small but great and definitely don't feel cheap. Ok I'm not a big fella and they feel made for my hands so maybe I'm a little lucky. I was convinced I'd need the ProC after a while but the JCs in grip is great. 200+ hours invested in Zelda, and hundreds more in others and I'm still more than happy with the grip. Maybe when you get your switch you could make an official complaint and see if you get a proC for free or discounted. If you do have hands that are too big and it's putting you off the machine Ninty may want to know this and it'll be in their interest to accommodate you (so you buy more games). Complain and see what you get. One free ProC is nothing to them.

@DavyP I know what you mean and, honestly, you are right in that regard but I'm much more open-minded and friendlier LOL and still I have been insulted in here by a few nasty users (and reported them).

As you, I like healthy discussion.

@DavyP I promote debate. The topic asked what did Nintendo learn from Wii U, what could be improved, and I say they forgot how to make a good controller, that the Joy-Con's need massive improvement. Some people, however, don't like my points and would rather throw insults. I ignore certain people for example. I know what they'll say, it's the same old kind of response from them every time. I don't like the Joy-Con's, shock, horror! Others do. And the world keeps spinning.

TLDR; I'd like to see XL versions of the Joy-Con's.

@UmniKnight That may be right but this doesn't change the fact that the Switch ports actually have a little added content whereas the WiiU ones did not.

@the8thark I'm not sure if they have much added content to be frank with you. It's usually the DLC's and (Which might be what you mean) added functionality in the likes of Xenoverse 2 and it's Joy-Con motion-controls.

Other than that, they sometimes even lose some functionality (FIFA 18).

I see people type that, if they want a portable version of a game, they'll see if it's on Switch, but otherwise, they'll go for their PS4/Xbox One, which does kind of disregard the ability for the Switch to go docked, doesn't it? But then, it doesn't compare to the others in that aspect, simply due to the difference in specs.

Wii u brought me back to gaming. I love my Wii u. And I'm with the I don't like the joycons camp, it's my opinion. I don't like it at all.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE wow. How do you do it man. You are a celebrity here. Your opinion means so much around here that people forget the actual topic.

@Sligeach_Eire

When my son was about 3 we bought a puppy. He took one look at it and said "I don't like it and I'm not going to look after it", I can understand that, he was young, it was a new arrival, and he spoke on impulse.

How-ever now the dog is his best friend, they built up a relationship through time and understanding. And now if I tell him what he originally said he is almost embaressed. He judged by a glance, without giving the dog a chance. Perhaps you can take something from this?

Taken in isolation your comments re the controller could carry some weight, but looking at the big picture and taking all of your comments into consideration you are shown up as the troll you are and your response is also typical. You troll get a reaction and plead innocense. Your post history is all the evidence needed to back this comment up.

@Anti-Matter I LOVE WII U GAMEPAD BETTER THAN JOYCONS.

THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME HAVE A OPINION. IM WRITING IN CAPITALS BECAUSE MY OPINION MEANS MORE THAN YOURS 😉

@SLIGEACH_EIRE I’m 6’4” with huge hands and I have absolutely no problems using the joycons.

@MariOnline Wii U is Died, Why Don't you Let Wii U DEAD? Switch IS the FUTURE.

I like his comments, I don't know why!

@MariOnline LMAO

@DavyP I'm considering going on Push Square to complain non-stop about the PS4 even though I don't own it. How long do we reckon my opinion will last in there?

@BlueOcean I love it too. Lol.

I feel bad now

@WiltonRoots But you will be a celebrity too.

@BlueOcean I'll report back when I get banned...wish me luck!

@WiltonRoots Just try as hard as @Sligeach_eire!

@electrolite77

In reply to your 7 points
1) Better hardware
2) More developer-friendly environment
3) Better Console design
4) Better Console name
5) Better Controller
6) Better games lineup in the first 10 months
7) Better marketing (though to be fair the concept itself is so much better and easier to sell)

1. All newer generation consoles have better hardware than it's predecessor so that's not really anything out of the ordinary. The WiiU had better hardware than the Wii.

2. This is a big point. Nintendo went all out to make developing for the Switch a fun experience and made interacting with Nintendo about it a breeze.

3. I would argue that's more advertising. The WiiU had potential based on it's hardware that was never fully utilised. Also without the WiiU existing, we never would have had the Switch. Nintendo learned all about portable 2nd screens to home consoles with the WiiU and used that information to develop the Switch.

4. Again that's advertising. Nintendo didn't explain properly that the WiiU in not just a Wii Pro. The new Switch name was basically a requirement to leave the whole failed advertising of the WiiU in the past.

5. That dependson what controllers you are talking about. The Joycons on the console is little different than the WiiU gamepad. However the ability to use them separately to the screen is huge. The pro controller scene is different though. The WiiU pro controller was great. But the Switch one is far superior. Mostly because of the material the case for it is made of. It's not shiny plastic that smudges and just gets all slippery with a little hand sweat like the WiiU one is. It seems that Nintendo made the WiiU pro controller to fit in aesthetically with the gamepad but they made the Switch pro controller purely based on functionality. The difference is huge and it really shows.

6. Another huge point. The WiiU had no console selling games for months after it launch, whereis the Switch had one on day 1. And from then till now, the Switch has had tons. Even if the latter half of 2018 is barren for the Switch, the backlog will keep us going. The only downside is later good games not being bought because people's backlogs are too large and developers not getting the sales that their games otherwise would have had. Still that is better than the WiiU's no good games for over a year problem.

7. The concept for the Switch I would argue is a tougher sell. Why would people want another portable Nintendo console when the 3DS already exists? That's the question that the Nintendo marketing team had to answer. Nintendo answered it quite well, though I do think they could have pushed the portable side a little harder. All Nintendo had to say with the WiiU is "a second screen that has touch capabilities just like the DS/3DS" and everyone would have understood. Nintendo didn't do this however.

@UmniKnight

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Splatoon 2 (It's really a port not a sequel) are two good examples. Sure the truly new content is limited but it's a welcome addition and better than just a straight port with no added content.

Talking about people choosing the PS4 port over the Switch port? That's not a binary answer. In games like DOOM and Skyrim, sure you are correct there, only those who want the portability will choose the Switch port because of the compromises required to get it on the Switch. However games like Stardew Valley, Yooka-Laylee, Shovel Knight and many others, people actually preferred the Switch port and in many cases are willing to wait for it.

I honestly believe the PS4 and Switch have a different fanbase. Each fanbase is into different kinds of games. The more gritty games like DOOM, Skyrim, Final Fantasy etc etc resonate more with the PS4 fans whereas the more retro styled games and the more cutsey looking games with more vibrant colour pallets resonate much more with Switch fans.

The one exception I feel is Kingdom Hearts. If that was on Nintendo consoles (the main games that is) it would have been a huge hit there. It's just the right mix of vibrant cartoony fun that Nintendo fans like. There's also just enough seriousness in the background for the Nintendo fans to take it seriously too. I honestly believe it's only popular on the PS because it's exclusive. If it was PS and Nintendo from day 1, the PS sales would be a lot lower.

@MariOnline Don't feel bad! @Anti-Matter 's comments are hilarious and I think he knows it.

Also, you @MarioOnline are one of my favourite posters for good reasons so don't change.

@WiltonRoots I may not own the Switch YET but I've bought a Switch game, does that count on entitling me to have an opinion? I've never been the President of America either. Am I allowed have an opinion on the current office holder? I've never owned a gun. Am I entitled to an opinion on gun ownership and gun laws? Etc.

They didn't learn about online since Switch somehow launched with less features like an internet browser or messaging other players.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE It just makes you an armchair analyst. In my opinion of course.

Nintendo knows they are not launching the Switch from a position of strength, so they make a few key decisions which they are reaping the rewards :
*Making the unit region-free, effectively making the world the market for every piece of software.
*Using the same x86 architecture as other platforms, and support for unity engine, making port from pc easier, resulting in a quick stream of indie games, which resulted in at least having one game worth considering almost every week.

@the8thark And yet these gritty games find their way into Switch as well, being the premise of playing it portably, something impossible until now.

In the end, no matter what console we own, we all play games, and most people don't have as much time to dedicate to them as they would like, something the Switch slots in perfectly. I doubt there's a game dev out there that wouldn't want their game to slot into the busy lives of someone who otherwise wouldn't bother.

Save for motion-controls and portability, why else would one get a Switch version over another? (I buy my games Switch over other versions, though I am not a good example in the slightest and don't even use the Joy-Cons nor the Switch's portability.)

I prefer launch Wii U OS over current garbage Switch OS.

Where are global, publicly visible, user identifiers?
Wii U had NNIDs in 2012.
Xbox had Gamertags in 2002!

Where's user password protection?
Wii U had it in 2012.

Where's proper data management?
Wii U had way better, however, still not good enough.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE The joycons are fine and perfectly good to use,I used them to play the majority of zelda till i got a pro controller. still use them for table top mode and they're good.Local play with a joy con each is fine to play MK8D and have had plenty of fun doing so. TBH this opinion from yourself is no surprise to anyone though as you clearly dislike the Switch and go to great lengths to put it down whenever you possibly can. Anyone would think you to be a Sony/MS fanboy in disguise. If you're that adverse to the system then just avoid it altogether and stick with your WiiU as that's clearly the system you champion all the time. The WiiU is my least favorite Nintendo console I've owned,although it had a few good games it has been played the least in the 4 years it was supported. If you still like it then fine but those of us with the Switch are looking forward to great games

@UmniKnight You are right, that's why Switch's third-party sales have been disappointing except for indie games that have a hard time selling on any platform anyway except hits like Cuphead or Sonic Mania. The best-selling third-party game is Mario-branded.

Nobody, not even third parties or Nintendo, knows how this is going to evolve. Switch is a new system and also the first hybrid console.

@BlueOcean True, but I do believe the portable premise will keep selling third-parties games. Question is, will it be enough? And will this premise keep strong, in the face of experiences when docked, being less than other versions?

It's hard to say. I thought FIFA 18 would sell like absolute bonkers due to it's portability, until recently, when I saw the UK's sales chart come by, and FIFA 18 Switch was below even Xbox 360 and PS3, which baffled me. Is it brand loyalty? I don't get it.

At any rate, I think Nintendo will need more than "just" portability at some point.

@UmniKnight It sold poorly because it's a shoddy port which IGN reviewed in the past hour. Thank goodness they didn't sugarcoat it or give it a free pass or "give it the benefit of the doubt".

FIFA 18 SWITCH REVIEW
_{A stripped-back shadow of its home console cousin.}

"The Verdict

Ultimately, FIFA 18 on Switch is a story of what could have been. Watered-down game modes give the whole experience a feeling of it being a work-in-progress rather than the complete package offered in the PS4 and Xbox One version. If you only want a quick FIFA fix in single-player or local play, the Switch version delivers. But it’s such a diluted, Sunday League experience it’s impossible to recommend if you’re already playing on home consoles.

5.5/10

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2017/10/10/fifa-18-switch-review

@SLIGEACH_EIRE I have yet to play a Switch game, but I've held the Joycon twice - commented on here about the experience many times before - and I hate them. And the Grip, it really should be tilted outwards at the bottom, not straight up and down, up and down is stupid. I have smallish hands, I'm only 5"10, but my thumb doesn't like moving like that.
Unlike you I've pretty much hated every Nintnedo controller - I think the N64 controller is an LSD induced nightmare - so it doesn't surprise me at all I don't like them. Now even though I've spent about 20 minutes with them I still haven't actually played w/ them yet, so I'm hoping like the awful weird Wiimotes and too big and heavy Gamepad I'll get used to them once I get in a game. I'm very comfortable w/ the Gamepad now, I rest my forearms and it on my lap while I lean back in my recliner. But I'm buying the XC2 Pro controller for most of my gaming anyway. Really hoping they improve Super Mario Odyssey buttons controls b/c right now they force motion, and that sucks. You'd think they would have learned from DKCR.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/20/16336134/super-mario-odyssey-nintendo-switch-motion-controls-hands-on-complex-impressions

@BlueOcean thanks man. I feel better now 👍🏻

Would like Youtube app on Switch please.

@WiltonRoots good luck man. May the power be with you.

@UmniKnight I agree with you. I'm intrigued about where this is going to. Right now it looks like Switch will be in a similar scenario that Wii U, third-party support shrinking soon after launch but with some notable yet rare cooperative projects like Bayonetta 2 on Wii U and Mario + Rabbids on Switch. Indie games are available everywhere these days except Cuphead and a few others, they won't sell Switch systems.

Good software sales hardware period. In this regard I hope Nintendo keeps third parties around and keep courting them throughout Switch life cycle. So far has been good imo.

@TheMisterManGuy I love the joycon just like I loved the gamepad. The thing is, people like SLIGEACH_EIRE will hate the Switch because they WANT to hate it, not because of rational reasons. I've seen many people hate on all sorts of different things (my brothers do this a lot) for no reason other than they are close minded. Life would be really hard and sad to live that way imo.

@rjejr I hate motion controls in Donkey Kong Country Returns and Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 and touch controls in Super Mario 3D World. Nintendo shoehorned them.

Bill Trinnen talking about the OS is a bit dishonest. I dare anyone to find me one person who didn't buy the Wii U b/c the OS was slow. That just wasn't a reason. Lack of games, marketing, HDD, price - those were the reasons, not the OS. People don't base their console purchase decisions on the OS.

I think what he's trying to say is - "We wanted an excuse to drop Miiverse on Switch, so we're going w/ 'The OS was slow on Wii U."

And while it may not be entirely OS related, Wii U did have Netflix, Youtube and a usable web browser. Did Nintneod take those out of the Switch b/c their inclusion made the Wii U sell poorly as well? Might as well use that as an excuse.

Wii U had some good games, some really good fun unique exclusive games, but Nintnedo hardly did anything to market them. Switch has had more marketing in 9 months than Wii U had in 4 1/2 years. THAT they learned. You want to sell something, market it.

What they'll also need to learn going forward is price reductions. Switch is selling fine now at $300, but they can't keep it at that price forever like they did w/ Wii U, launched at $299, died 4 years later at $299. That's not how you sell a console, that's how you abandon it and let it die. Selling $300 Switch in $380 bundles - both Mario and Splatoon 2 - may work at launch when people are excited about a new system, but it wont' work over the long run, at some point they'll have to offer actual deals. Wii U had that for 2 days 1 BF w/ the Smash-Splatoon bundle, they should have sold that year round. Fortuantley for them dropping the Switch price should be easy, just drop stuff out of the box - Joycon grips, HDMI cable, Grip, dock - piece by piece until they are just selling a Switch tablet cheap, make up the cost on numerous peripherals.

@MariOnline greatness awaits.

Well I guess they can't really say "because it was a terrible idea". But OK yeah, it was because of the OS, sure...

I suppose at the time they felt that gimmicky controllers was they what they were all about, but the Wii U Gamepad was almost entirely pointless. A couple of neat ideas here and there, but most of the time it was contrived and often just made things needlessly clunky and convoluted (Star Fox Zero being the epitome of this). A solution desperately looking for a problem. No one actually cares about screen clutter or having a map/inventory on a second screen (because you still have to pause from the action to look down at it, so it makes no bloody difference...)

I remember playing Nintendo Land with some friends shortly after the console released. The amount of times I heard the words "Which screen am I supposed to be looking at?" I knew this thing was DOA.

Also, I suppose the Wii branding didn't help. The Wii's momentum had fallen off a cliff long before the Wii U came out. The Wii brand was basically a joke to most people by that point.

@SanderEvers Yeah, but if Sony and MS can do a proper account system then why can't Nintendo?

@BlueOcean "Nintendo shoehorned them."

I don't know how they'll feel, but it certainly sounds like motion controls are going to be mandatory in SMO. And if not mandatory sounds like they are going out of their way to make the non-motion controls stupid so people are sort of forced to use motion.

From the article Ilinked to earlier.

"So while launching that spin throw with the detached Joy-Con is as simple as flicking your controllers to the side, doing the same thing with docked gamepads or the Pro Controller requires rapidly spinning Mario in a circle and then launching Cappy with a button press.

You also can’t avoid motion controls: some things are reliant on them, even if you’re using a more traditional control scheme. This is particularly true when it comes to captured enemies, most of which almost always have additional abilities that are tied to a flick of the controller. Possessing a Cheep-Cheep will let you swim around without worrying about air, but your only defense is a motion-activated attack that requires shaking the controller. If Mario captures a Lava Bubble or a frog, he’ll be able to jump higher if you shake the controller while jumping, actions that just work more naturally with the undocked Joy-Con than it does a stationary gamepad.

My only concern with this focus on motion controls is that they have the potential to negate the Switch’s greatest advantage: portability. While I didn’t get a chance to try out Odyssey in the portable configuration, I’d imagine that the controls will be similar to the Pro Controller. But they’ll be worse, since you’ll have to shake the entire console — screen and all — to activate abilities."

They shouldn't' force controls that only work in 1 mode - probably the least used of the 3 tabletop - when most people will either be playing handheld or docked - but that's what it sounds like they've done. I always like options, always, but there are many buttons on a Pro controller, put them to use. We'll see.

@Haywired I agree. I think that the last great Nintendo console and controller were GameCube. I like Wii U but I always use the pro controller if possible. The GamePad was only used conveniently by Project Zero and Super Mario Maker. Even Nintendo Land made it look complicated.

@DavyP Haha. Well said. The moment I read the article I chuckled and came to the comments because I knew SLIGEACH_EIRE would be down here running around screaming. He has not disappointed.

@rjejr Yes, that's my only concern about Super Mario Odyssey. If only it used traditional controls like Super Mario 64 and Sunshine, my favourite 3D Mario games. This combination of analogue and motion controls might backfire.

Guys, I think by now after SLIGEACH_EIRE has flat out said that people on this site will bite at anything, we should just realize that he shouldn't be taken seriously. Just ignore him.

@KirbyTheVampire

Haha, I never have. A broken record if I've ever seen one.

@rjejr @BlueOcean
I've read that piece before and it's deeply troubling, but surely even Nintendo knows by now that shoehorning in mandatory motion controls isn't going to do them any favours, considering the amount of people who can't stand waggle. Unless during the entire development stage they all forgot about the whole point of the Switch... I think it's pertinent though that he said that he hadn't played it in handheld mode and I have heard from others that all motion controls can be turned off for handheld mode/pro controller play etc. Hopefully that's true. Otherwise, God... talk about a fly in the ointment...

@invictus4000 I'm not hating on the Switch, I honestly and unfortunately think the Joy-Con's are garbage. Some people here think that I think that Wii U is great and perfect. I do like it and I've hundreds of games for it but it's far from perfect. I've given out plenty about it in the past, like the awful battery life, puny memory, I've gone through so many gamepad chargers because of the noodle like wire breaking. The OS at the start was horrific, I'm not a fan of some of the games, I think some were lazy cookie-cutter efforts, like SM3DW, I'm not a fan, it's way too easy. I'm not finished it yet, I hear the last world is difficult. I'm on World 6. Then other efforts were insulting towards the end, like Mario Tennis: Ultra Trash, Animal Crossing: SCamiibo Festival and Star Fox Zero%.

Hey all, Godzilla (IRL) here. Held a Switch for the first time two weeks ago and haaaaaaated it. Even though my hands are disproportionately small to my body, they’re still huge compared to human hands, and the Joy Con do not work for me AT ALL.

Well at least they fixed the marketing department. Cause it was awful for the Wiiu.

@MsJubilee

Yeah, more like nonexistent. They banked too much on the Wii brand to carry it. I've seen multiple marketing efforts for the Switch already, which is pleasing to see. I'm sure we'll see more during the Holidays too.

@electrolite77 Then you've always been wrong.

@electrolite77 Same. Without a doubt my least favorite Nintendo system in terms of its library.

I think they're doing exactly what they did with the Wii U, with the exception of advertising it better and not naming it something dumb. It's launch was still rushed.

The article mentioned that they've decided to space out their game launches, rather than release them all at once leaving dry spells. But the multiplatform games released are chopped up. FIFA is missing modes and Doom is downgraded to 720p and frequently dips lower than 30fps, even while docked. The console doesn't allow for the dock to increase your storage, and somehow they still think 32gb SD cards will suffice for full fledged console game ps4 and xb1 have, and it's online multiplayer network is heavily lacking.

These are things that are laughable in 2017. And yet still, the console cost $300, the same price as the PS4 and XB1 which are significantly more powerful, have significantly better online multiplayer networks, significantly more games supported with all features, and with significantly more gaming and media apps. Xbox One S even plays 4K movies for you and has a retro library available to purchase and play 360 games as well as supporting services like EA access and Game Pass. PS4 has a similar ability with the playstation Now service.

Then there's the Switch, which in my opinion is a "Wii U Pro" with mobile gaming support. Reports already suggest the vast majority of gamers play while docked, so the memory space issue is far more an issue and hindrance and previously anticipated. Nintendo discontinued and dropped the Wii U in only a 4 year life span without supporting buyers who spent $250+ on the Wii U just six months prior and it's a complete slap in the face. This is all while they compete against themselves by catering to be more a mobile console like the 3ds, but not having the battery life, portability or the price point that people love about the 3ds.

So in short, no, I don't see them making different key decisions. IMO they've made minor changes at best. And let me repeat that this is the first Nintendo home console I have not purchased within 6 months of launch. And the main reason is simply for the bad taste Nintendo left in my mouth after abruptly discontinuing the Wii U.

And well, it's already consistently sold out everywhere since it's launch, this shows that Nintendo did something right. But it still makes me wonder if this is still the same 13 million people who bought the Wii U and would have bought a new Nintendo console regardless. Only time will tell that.

Just my 2 cents.

@KirbyTheVampire To be fair my comparison was between Wii U and Switch. I also said that the last great Nintendo console and controller were GameCube and now I can add that the best game libraries are on SNES and N64. 3DS is getting close.

https://goo.gl/images/EJF0FO

@BlueOcean guess not, don't remember having to click past a siezure warning. My xbox one gets so little love since I find doing anything with it a hassle. Guess I should take some time to update and streamline my old consoles. Switch, SNES classic, and smart tv for aps get my attention nowadays.

@BlueOcean I wouldn't care if it was your favorite or anything lol, sorry if it looked like I was trying to gang up on you or something. (You probably weren't thinking that, but just in case)

But yeah the Gamecube was awesome, especially for its time. Unfortunately I haven't played many N64/SNES games, but there are some I plan on playing eventually.

@Chindian_Chick You are absolutely right.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE You're certainly not the only person to dislike the joycons, but I don't get the hate for them. If the ergonomics don't work for you that's a fair problem to have with them, but nothing about them feels even slightly cheap. They're extremely dense, solid controllers with very positive buttons. The smaller range of motion on the sticks won't feel as weighty as a larger controller, but they don't feel "cheap" just lighter. (I'm not a fan of the grip caps on them, but good, larger, 3rd party caps are cheap, and I usually put 3rd party caps on most controllers, especially X360, as none of them usually feel right to me out of the box.)

Not comfortable for some people in some configurations I can see, but slamming them as poor quality is just untrue. They're certainly no worse than using a 3DS.

@KirbyTheVampire No worries. I just wanted to make clear to you and @electrolite77 that I don't think that Wii U is perfect, but I don't think that Switch is either. Actually, I think it's gone backwards in some areas.

@Chindian_Chick Well said.

@setezerocinco ?

@NEStalgia I don't think that the joycons feel cheap but they are the least ergonomic controllers I've ever used, with the grip being a mediocre solution. I don't think that the Wii Remote feels cheap either but the nunchuk certainly does but both are much more ergonomic than the joycons. This means that for me Switch in handheld mode or with the controllers detached has little value so I'd only consider it as a home console with a pro controller. As you, I'm not a fan of the joycon sticks either, the buttons are fine (better than I expected) but the "D-pad" is not. It is not, literally.

@MariOnline
"Wii u brought me back to gaming. I love my Wii u. And I'm with the I don't like the joycons camp, it's my opinion. I don't like it at all." #102

But your avatar has Joy Cons + Joy Con Grip.....
So, what was that mean ?

@NEStalgia You have your opinion and I have mine. As I've said, I own the DS and I've played the 3DS. They both play well and are comfortable. The Joy-cons are the complete opposite and that's despite having similarities like the same sized buttons. But even pressing them on the Joy-Con's feels different and bad. I feel like most of the rest of you that like the Joy-Con's are crazy. I just don't get how anyone can like them.

@Anti-Matter I like the switch. Not the joycons.

It means I bought a switch

Meanwhile, in this comment section...

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Different people just have different tastes; or in my case whilst not perfect I can see that compromises had to be made to ensure the design and concept were kept. Heck I have friends who love the Jaguar, 3DO and PS1 pads; 3 that I dislike. I don't say they are bad (although Sony's near inability to design a good d-pad does test me - and before you mention the Switch's lack of a d-pad that would have destroyed one of the Switch's main selling points, one I myself have already made use of several times). Yet I don't consider them bad controllers; just maybe a bit too unique or not to my tastes.

What gets everyone's knickers in a twist is when people state their opinions in a way that sound more like a "a statement of fact" and in a way that descredits anyone else's opinion. "The Joycons ARE CRAP" or "The Pro Controller and an SD Card are MANDATORY for the Switch". Neither statements are true yet merely opinions. All thats needed is some careful wording even if the aim is to promote discussion (which is not the same as trying to instigate all out war).

@SLIGEACH_EIRE
Ooh... simple.
Because of.... LOVE !
LOVE will weakening something HATRED inside your heart.
When you put a LOVE into Nintendo Switch 100%, It will annihilate your Nonsense Hatred from your Heart.
Also, it looks so cute anyway. :kissing_smile:

You HATED Joy Cons because you don't have a LOVE 100% inside your hearts.

Embrace that !

It will no use if you still persist with your Pathetic mindset like that.
Your Persistence will be OVER by the time Switch got more positive feedbacks.

Wow. Quite the debate here. Lemme lighten it up a bit.

"Nintendo was riding high with the Wii"

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Jk sry XD

No, I haven't read the 170+ comments above this yet as I don't have the time ATM, but I'm sure there are some polarizing views.

My take on this? Nintendo is learning from some of its mistakes from the Wii U era, but it can always be doing better. I love the company, but there are some things (data backups, [insert system here] Classic distributions, etc.) that they could be doing better.

No company is perfect, but they're at least trying to learn from their mistakes.

I still think that one of the biggest mistakes with the Wii U was the name itself. I imagine that in a clunky way they were attempting to hold on to the success of the Wii, but it likely confused the new audience they had won over and they probably weren't used to the speed with which the console business changes up hardware.

Too many people probably thought it was a "Wii - Upgraded" system (which it sort of was), and thought they could just keep using their Wii if they didn't need the HDMI and gamepad. The fact that it integrated full Wii functionality was supposed to ease the transition, but the name blurred the line too much.

It just wasn't a good idea to go back to using a name that connects to the previous system. What worked for the NES to SNES shift didn't work as well after having three uniquely named systems in between. Nearly every bump in the road the system hit after that just built on the hobbled start it was given.

In so many ways, it was the best console they had ever put out, but they shot it in the foot on it's way out of the factory and couldn't figure out how to steer out of the nosedive.

Honestly, has anyone ever heard what the "U" even stood for? In retrospect I guess it stood for ""Uh-oh"...

@SLIGEACH_EIRE I don't know. They aren't that bad. Maybe because I've got small hands but I find the Joy-Cons and the grip comfortable enough that I haven't have the need (or even thought) to buy a Pro controller.
I think you just haven't used them long enough.
My only complaint is the absence of a proper D-pad.
Some people say that a Pro controller is a must. I say it's not needed at all. It's all a matter of opinion.

@Haywired "I have heard from others that all motion controls can be turned off for handheld"

Well that's good to read. I'm nervous about quickly running Mario around in a circle to do the Cappy circle move. And really, it shouldn't surprise anyone if they did require motion controls. Look at 1 2 Switch, Nintendo spent a lot of money on HD Rumble, surely they would want to show it off on a AAA game like Mario and not just minigame collections. Nintendo does things. How many people have thought My Nintendo is better than Club Nintendo? They do a lot right, but sometimes, smh

And it's 2017, I'm more than a little worried they'll improve the controls AFTER I'm done w/ the game, like they did w/ NSMBU.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/05/new_super_mario_bros_u_update_arriving_with_luigis_dlc

"the update will add controller support for the Wii U Pro Controller, the absence of which was slightly baffling in the first place"

I love my Wii U, and have since I got it for my son 4.5 years ago. Nintendo didn't do a good job explaining that it was, in fact, a new console. If they'd called Wii 2, it might've changed everything.

Right now I see no reason to get a Switch, actually. Maybe in a few years if SMO makes it to my must-own queue. Waiting on BotW in case I decide to get a Switch.

@maruse I think if you're good with the Joy-Con for the 3D games + Motion Controls in Splatoon and only want a D-pad for retro games, definitely go for either the Pokken Pro Pad if you're wired and want that full retro experience out of 2D platformers or 8BitDo's Pro series if you're wireless and also want a 3rd controller for your kids.

PS: I do not recommend letting your kids play with the Switch in portable BTW, that's why I hope they do a Switch Mini when Pokémon drops or else the Switches are gonna drop like crazy.

It's easy to have a better release schedule of "new" games when half of them are just Wii U re-releases.

But yeah, Wii U was doomed since the conception of the name Wii U. Then it was further doomed by the clunky GamePad. Then further doomed the moment the first person that used one tried to literally go into another room with it and it cut off. And yes, the software droughts and lack of 3rd party support.

Also how it was essentially as powerful as a PS360 yet released 6 years later.

@Jimsbo Yeah the name is ridiculous. "Wii" is supposed to mean "we" and "U" is supposed to mean "you". When Satoru introduced the console showing the GamePad only, everybody thought it was a Wii accessory that he called "Wii U". Afterwards, the GamePad found little love.

The price and the upcoming Xbox One and PS4 didn't help either. When those were released third-party support on Wii U had already died. Unfortunately, Nintendo stopped supporting its own console soon enough to annoy their owners, myself included.

What future awaits Switch is too early to say.

@MsgBoardGamer I don't know man, we've never had portable Doom 2016 and Wolfenstein 2. That's why the Switch is in a weird spot. Nintendo will sell Switches to the Nintendo fanbase, Bethesda might just sell them for more hardcore players who just don't have much time to play at home anymore.

In a way, Switch also factors in the part where the gaming audience is becoming older. I started gaming back in the DS and Wii days and I had a lot of time back then to go through Pokémon Mystery Dungeon. Now I'm a student, a TO and a traveller, so for someone like me the Switch with its handheld & tabletop capabilities is a blessing.

imo the biggest failure of the Wii U was the name. If it was named "Super Wii" I bet it would have done much better. The gamepad should have been optional, or not made at all. That would have lowered the price of the console dramatically. More people would have purchased it to go alongside their PS4/Xbox One/PC just for the exclusives because it would have been cheap.

I really like my Wii U. I still play Pokken, Splatoon, and Smash on it. I won't buy the Switch versions of those games because I enjoy firing up the Wii U and getting use out of it, and $60 for minimal added features (Pokken) isn't justifiable. I did get Mario Kart 8 Deluxe for my Switch however because my MK8 came with my Wii U.

Balancing the 3DS and the Wii U software demands hurt Nintendo. Too frequently when one got a bunch of software the other suffered. While the 3DS had third party support to fall back on, the Wii U didn't.

Lackluster third party support hurt Nintendo. Each time a game did come to the Wii U it was always without X, making it an inferior version of the game. For example, EA released Mass Effect 3 at the same time they released Mass Effect Trilogy elsewhere. Batman: Arkham Origins was missing multiplayer and never saw all the DLC.

Nintendo never leveraged the eShop to their own advantage to keep software releasing. Games that could have been eShop titles were forced onto discs to put something on the shelf (Capt. Toad, Mario Tennis), and they never pushed to create smaller titles (even if they later sold them as a collection) after NES Remix.

They did okay with some of the DLC, but more expansions like New Super Luigi U that could be sold as standalone software also could have helped the retail software presence. It also would have allowed already created assets to be reused quickly.

If the Switch flopped, everybody would've said that Nintendo did not learn anything from the Wii U because it's very similar. Success clouds judgment and most gamers are quick to jump on the bandwagon.

The fact of the matter is that Nintendo never really changed anything. They have been doing the same thing over and over again, and that's great. It's always fun new hardware unlike anything else on the market with a bunch of really really good first party titles and a few great exclusive third party titles. That's what you should expect and that is what you will get.

I agree with every one here that the name Wii U was stupid and confusing. There's a whole host of reasons why it failed. Nintendo are largely to blame for its own demise. Something I haven't seen anybody mention but I've said it before, another big reason why the Wii U failed was because both Wii U and 3DS got off to terrible starts. Nintendo had to knock €100 off the 3DS within months of launch. That was a catastrophic hit for them. They couldn't save both platforms, they had to choose and they chose the handheld because that's where Nintendo predominantly have seen the largest success over the past 20 years. A complete lack of advertising didn't help either. I said before the Wii U launched that it would be a failure. The writing was on the wall early on.

The Switch, while it's doing great so far, I still don't think it's going to sell amazingly over its lifetime. It was always going to do well in Japan, they love handhelds and Nintendo have really gone after that market. Even their reveal was done in Japan, whereas before it was usually at E3 or in America at least. The 3rd party support is already limited and the few dipping their toe will likely be gone soon enough. The biggest hindrance to long-term success is the price. It's not mass market friendly. It needs to be at least €100 cheaper.

Wii U didn't fail cause of the name. It failed cause it ditched Wii main selling point (motion controls) for a confusing tablet controller. Also it was a lot more expensive than Wii. It was a very interesting idea that didn't work out. If Wii U didn't have any gimmicks, but was as powerful as PS4 then it would sell better.

IMO Nintendo should be more flexible and competitive with prices of software and hardware. Playstation Store got great discounts each week, so does Steam. Nintendo store is less flexible Charges too much for old games.

=> A constant and steady flow of quality first party content, as well as key 3rd party collaborative titles
=> Appealing hardware and concept
=> Excellent marketing and advertising

Nintendo needed to get those 3 things right to succeed. They did a phenomenal job with the Wii, failed spectacularly with the Wii U, and is doing great with the Switch.

@MsgBoardGamer "Most gamers who have or want the Switch don't care about third-parties." This will not pay Nintendo dividends if true.

Nintendo has great IP, but it is finite. What other choice do they have, but to eventually crank out their IP, most likely crunching developers and causing the games to lose in quality, or to face droughts yet again ala Wii-U?

@electrolite77 The same as what I said above to Msg, but I'd like to ask you something in addition. What if the portability the Switch offers, is no longer enough? Nintendo needs the aid of the third-parties, as explained above, so what more could they do to differentiate their offering?

@MsgBoardGamer Um.......O.K.

I just hope they can keep up the pace for next year too.

@MsgBoardGamer Oh? Last I checked, the games that are multiplats, even if older, did fairly well for the thirds.

What the switch needs is the whole Wii VC catalogue. Please give it to me!

I think they have learned and improved on some stuff but are still committing some of the same errors they have for generations.

I keep reading people make the comments that the price needs to come down......eventually this is probably true. Right now, Nintendo doesn't have to do a single thing except get them on a shelf. The last 3 times I went to Target, I've witnessed what I would call "casual gamers" buying the Switch. The one thing they all have in common is that they were talked into buying everything! They each purchased a huge memory card based off of the sales clerk's suggestion. The last time, the sales clerk said, you need one of these if you plan on downloading a lot of movies! I laughed! Anyways, the point I'm making is that it seems that the casual crowd is still very much interested in owning the "IT" system right now.

I think the biggest thing for me is the online experience.

I think the 3rd party developers who put the time in to making quality games for the Switch will be rewarded. Those that don't, or those who choose to be lazy, will continue to lack the sales numbers they're looking for. I think both Rockstar and Bethesda Games have promising games coming out that will prove that if the effort is put forth, they will be rewarded in sales.

The single joy-con controller turned sideways is not comfortable. But I have not had to use a single joy-con turned sideways for long periods of time. I've had groups playing Kart with the single joy-cons and in those situations they are very handy. I welcome the utility features.

@MsgBoardGamer You know I was being sarcastic. Your response was silly so that's all it deserved in reply. Nintendo fans do care about 3rd party support. I do. And the Switch isn't in high demand "everywhere".

@MsgBoardGamer That most people to own a Switch not caring about third-party won't help them in the long run, and I've explained why.

@Pupito I wouldn't say either side is right. Whether a person likes a controller or not is a totally subjective thing. Some people love them, some people don't. Personally, they're not my first choice, but I could adjust if I was forced to use them.

Either way, I don't think his opinion holds much weight, since it sounds like he just held them for 30 seconds or something and decided he'd basically rather die than hold a JoyCon. It takes time to adjust to any controller. For example, when I first got my PS4, I didn't like the Dualshock 4 at all and wished I could keep using the Dualshock 3, but now I really dislike the Dualshock 3 compared to the 4.

Nintendo publicly acknowledging the different mistakes they made with the Wii U shows that they are certainly learning from it. The Switch's current success is testament to that.

@Sinton Both the Wii and Switch launched with Zelda titles delayed from previous consoles. So that is alone is a big part of their success. Secondly the Wii U was a great console, but it had a number of issues that have been discussed at length previously on this site.
1. Lack of great launch titles. Sure it had a semi popular New Super Mario entry, but NintendoLand was misunderstood and not generally accepted.
2. Third party support sucked, except from Ubisoft and Activision. Namely it was bad from EA where their launch lineup was bad and got worse. NFS Most Wanted 2012 was excellent but was six months old. When at launch for $60 you could buy Mass Effect 3, other consoles got the trilogy for cheaper a week later. FIFA was a rehashed port of their previous years engine. And finally Crysis 3 was running beautifully according to the developer on Wii U but EA sat on it and wouldn't let it go to market.
3. Forced GamePad usage. Xbox eventually unbundled the camera from the Xbox One due to public backlash at price. But Nintendo would not unbundle the Gamepad. For better or worse some games required it while others struggled to use it at all. Also the limited range of its wireless signal was an issue.
4. Games were not released in a timely manner, so there would be long spells of no good AAA titles.
5. Virtual Console. It took forever just to get titles the Wii had when it was replaced. Titles had worse performance and were darker as well on Wii U.
6. Nintendo never really sold the public on how the Wii U was new and different, many may still assume it's an add-on for the Wii.

@Pupito I prefer them too, I'm just saying it's a pretty subjective thing. Besides, there's always the grip, which I didn't really have any problems with. I just figured I might as well get the slightly better option in the form of the Pro controller, since I'll be using the thing for the next 5 or 6 years, but I could have managed fine without it.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE You might have already mentioned this, but I don't feel like looking through all the comments, so I thought I'd ask if you've tried the grip?

@Nico07 Good points about Wii U even though most of them apply to Switch in different ways: most Switch games being Wii U games, Virtual Console going into total darkness, forced motion controls remain, more expensive or more limited ports compared to the other consoles, shrinking third-party support... Switch marketing has been lacking too, with Reggie marketing as a home console and TV spots showing people playing in the toilet. The games schedule is good but that's easy when you are porting Wii U games and your console is less than one year old.

I, too, think that the delayed Zelda games helped Wii and Switch. Wii U launch titles were seen as Wii Sports and New Super Mario Bros. Wii Rehashed and even though NSMBU was better than NSMBWii, Nintendo Land was much worse than Wii Sports.

Lesson 3: Don't update a "dead" system.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE "A complete lack of advertising didn't help either. I said before the Wii U launched that it would be a failure. "

To be fair you said the same thing about Switch I do think it will be quite successful long term. I think it can easily outsell 3DS long term (eventually a lower cost unit will exist just as every platform but WiiU has to pull in the secondary market.) It has broader appeal to a wider audience than 3DS had, and 3DS was a tremendous success. Not a PS2/PS4/Wii/DS level success, but nobody can have that all the time.

As for the Japan unveiling show, nobody does E3 console releases anymore. Sony did a special one in NY for PS4, MS did one just before E3 for XBone. But Playstation is a "Western" brand at this point, with so much of their teams located in the US, so it was their own back yard for that brand (despite not being Sony Corp.) Logistically, most of Nintendo's staff is in Japan so it would be silly to fly them all out to the US to do it, even if it is their biggest market right now.

Back on Joycons though, both to you and @BlueOcean It's really about the specific game. For BotW, the split joycons are the single best controller I could imagine for that game. They just "work". They're not "ergonomic" but they just kind of vanish in your hands. I don't have huge "palm the basketball" hands, but I have large-ish hands to the point that I prefer X360 controller to most others. But the joycons still work nicely. They work great that way for slower/exploration games where you can relax and play. Skyrim etc as well. HOWEVER, I wouldn't want to play Splatoon, or, say, Bayonetta with the split joycons, that would be pure torture. Pro is indeed ideal there. And in handheld mode it works. I mean I've been playing Splatoon for hours on end in handheld mode and it's perfectly comfortable. I've used gripped joycons in tabletop mode SOME percentage of the time. It's a fun switch from handheld, but admittedly a compromise from the pro controller.

It depends on the game. Fast action games, I'm glad to have my pro controller. Laid back games, I miss those split joycons when I'm on a different system.

Fighting games, SHMUPS, etc...let's face it, the HRAP makes all the above look silly.

The sticks, honestly, it's the caps that are a little small and hard (they were giving me rug burn on my thumbs playing Street Fighter II with them!) The sticks feel a LOT better with some larger caps on them. I think I paid $7 or so for a pack of.....not the cheap ones, they're better...might be Hyperkin. The sticks feel pretty good actually with bigger caps. Not the full motion range as pro, but they feel like they punch above their weight. I can get my charger flick shots and jump shots just fine....

They seem to have forgotten to mention the biggest lesson, which is that you can't look at your TV and your tablet at the same time.

@riki_sidekicks "you can't look at your TV and your tablet at the same time".

Good luck (in your Star Fox Zero missions)!

@Jimsbo "Honestly, has anyone ever heard what the "U" even stood for? In retrospect I guess it stood for ""Uh-oh".."

Iwata (or Miyamoto?) explained it once. It's one of those obvious in a totally unobvious way. While the "Wii" focused on gaming together with it sounding like the English word "we", the WiiU focused on the ability to play together, or by yourself with the gamepad (U sounding like "you").

The thinking works in English, but the problem is the logical progression to think about it is a very Japanese word play concept that is INSTANTLY recognized and understood in Japanese minds, but in Western minds, we don't do word play like they do on a regular basis, so it just went right over everyone's heads. The fact they had to explain it wasn't a good omen.

Tellingly, in Japan sales weren't far behind PS4 and at times was ahead until they made it clear they were sending it out the airlock....

@KirbyTheVampire
"Guys, I think by now after SLIGEACH_EIRE has flat out said that people on this site will bite at anything, we should just realize that he shouldn't be taken seriously. Just ignore him."

Couldn't have said it better myself. Unfortunately there are commenters still taking the bait...

Two more huge improvements: Better initial marketing and better engine compatibility.

You can't be too successful when the potential consumers are confused about what the product actually is.

You also can't maintain strong third party support when they usually need to either make Switch exclusive games, redevelop their games specifically for the Wii U's unique architecture (which often resulted in low quality ports even considering the lower specs), or just skip the Wii U with their multi-platform titles.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Like its not like I dont agree with your points. I think that the controller is fine at what it sets out to do but i feel that they could have easily fixed this diverse opinion issue. Like i agree that playing with joycons by themselves isnt amazing but I got used to it even though that shouldnt be the case. Im sure you probably use the switch pro controller (arguably the best controller ever made so far) to remedy your issues with the joycons but they are expensive alternatives for what adds novelty features that are barely going to be used for anything but minor things and lewd games.

@BlueOcean I agree with Returns and 3D World. But I think Galaxy's surfing and ball rolling were enjoyable with motion. I suppose they could've added options though.

I think the loading time thing is laughable. It was clear by interacting with people that had the Wii and loved it but had never heard of the Wii u. Every time I showed them my Wii u they showed how they could buy the tablet for their Wii. Clearly very few people knew that Nintendo released a new console even when they were face to face with it. Simply naming it Wii 2 or just a different name, like they could have called it the switch, and marketing better I think it would have done much better. These people are clearly so disconnected from their player base that they don't understand how to make their product.

@Paddle1 Oh, yes. The surfing stages were fun! Like a Wii sport, the rolling ball you mentioned and the gliding stages, they only required motion controls. I was thinking of those platforms that flip with motion controls, the spin jump with motion controls and the evil stages where you had to escape from several dark Marios and reach the top of the platform while flipping the wall sections with motion controls and wall jumping, all together at the same time. Hell.

There's three big reasons why Switch is succeeding where Wii U failed:

1. Concept: The Switch has a simple, easy to understand concept that has appeal. Wii U's concept was convuluted, not well thought out, and not easy to explain.

2. Branding/marketing: The Switch's marketing and branding have been night and day compared to Wii U. Wii U was a confusing name attempting to ride the Wii's success, there was little marketing, and the marketing they did do wasn't effective.

Big part of the branding is the company's branding as a whole. Wii U and 3DS acted as separate brands, but those brands weren't strong enough on their own. The commercials they did at the time for games like DKC and Pikmin 3 tried to mimmick the style of 90's video game commercials, and while that's a neat throwback for you and I, it simply wasn't effective for modern day. It's not modern day marketing.

Since then, Nintendo has gone back to their red logo, albeit inverted to a white-on-red scheme. Everything is under one unified Nintendo brand. With Switch, every commercial and every trailer starts with the Switch logo and that satisfying snap sound and animation, and ends with the Nintendo logo. It's all in red. This is exactly what Sony and Microsoft do with their commercials - logo at the beginning and end of every commercial and trailer, with their unique sounds and identifying color. That red stands out against PlayStation blue and Xbox green.

3. Consistent stream of games: Wii U launched with some games that weren't massively appealing in the slightest, and then had a massive 9 month drought. Switch launched with a massive new Zelda and has had a major title every month since, with a huge amount of quality indies and a smattering of great 3rd party titles in between.

One thing that hurt the Wii U was that the console itself was hidden so much, and yet it looked a LOT like the Wii Family Edition.

Case in point, this Target ad:

@MsgBoardGamer Well, most people who buy Nintendo consoles don't care AS MUCH about third party games, but third party support is still pretty necessary to build up a decent sized quality library, as not even Nintendo can support a console mostly by themselves. The Wii for example had great third party support, as have all of Nintendo's handheld systems over the years. Even the GameCube had pretty good third party support. The only video game system (made by any company) to ever succeed with low third party support was the Nintendo 64, and even that wouldn't have been possible without Nintendo running Rare into the ground.

It should have had a few price drops over it's last few years, I don't understand why that never happened. That said, it's going to be quite a wonderful system to have as a collector in 10-20 years. Or maybe not. How many were actually made versus sold, does anyone know? It's the nintendo system I have the least amount of games for, and i'd like to buy some of the first party titles I havent gotten yet.. not sure though. I just recently sold about half my gaming collection and dealing with serious PTSD because of it.

I really hated the gamepad and didn't buy any games that truly needed it. I wasn't a fan of motion control (except for the gimicky aspect at first when it first game out). And the miiverse atmosphere made me barfily uncomfortable at times.

Why, Nintendo? Whyyyyyy?????

With Nintendo it's always been word of mouth that sold their consoles its just that with the wii u people who bought wii thought it was another peripheral like wii fit board.

They definitely learned from some of their major mistake. Very glad to see that they took content droughts and that god awful POS joke of an operating system that was the wii u very seriously. (I HATE the wii u OS with a passion). They still could have learned a few more lessons like including more than 32 gbs of storage and not passing on the costs to consumers. In addition more sales as well as an improved my Nintendo would have been nice

@electrolite77 Sure, I can see that. But it also has to remain profitable in the long term. Firing off all one's ammunition is bound to have effect, but you'll be out of ammo afterwards as well!

@MsgBoardGamer I've said why they need third-party aid, if only to let their own devs catch their breath in-between releases and to preserve the quality of their games. They've done it with Mario + Rabbids and I can see them do it again. (give the spotlight to a third-party in the same way)

Anecdotal evidence, obviously, but I would say personally, the fact that I never got a Wii U, and never saw an especially pressing need to get one (though there are certainly games I feel like I missed out on), and that I bought a Switch within a few months of launch says a lot. Maybe it mainly show how important Zelda is as a killer app to get me to buy a system, but still.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Just use the grip

@BlueOcean Right, Wii Sports was much more accepted than Nintendo Land. Nintendo Land wasn't a terrible game in my opinion, it just came off to the public as a half baked attempt at a game though many of its games have great asychronus multiplayer gameplay (Mario Chase, Luigi's Mansion).

@SLIGEACH_EIRE

Port or not, BotW was optimised to the point where it played like a home built game.

Plus having a game of that scale portable is a selling point in itself, I see no problem with them having it as a launch title, us Wii U owners still got an uncompromised version.

@TheMisterManGuy I have big hands and they are fine to me- he doesn't own a switch and hasn't spent time with one. All he does is come on here and moan about the lack of AAA chav titles. Why he even comes here is beyond me now. Go buy a PS4 and go to pushsquare dude.

@AlwaysGreener I'm realising that myself- is there an ignore button.

@KirbyTheVampire no because he doesn't have a switch.

Nintendo wants to redeem itself. the switch system is what they were trying with the wii u and didn't succeed. Nintendo always find a way to make things better. they are very dedicated to their systems as well as their games.

@Tasuki I won't be banned, I'll just be stating my opinion and promoting debate...

@SLIGEACH_EIRE I don’t think your a troll. It’s really your opinion on the topic. I think the problem people have is you just repeat the same thing in most Switch articles.

@Nico07 I agree, those two Nintendo Land games were fun! Others were complicated like DK and Metroid and some of them just boring. Even new games that focused on GamePad were controversial like Star Fox Zero and some used it in a silly way (touch doors in Super Mario 3D World). Some Nintendo games ignored the GamePad totally (Tropical Freeze). Project Zero used the GamePad in a clever way. Super Mario Maker conveniently used it as a Surface.

To people bashing Wii U OS: It is fast and simple unless you haven't updated it since 2013. The Switch OS is even simpler and lacks a lot of features, that's not a positive. Switch is... bare-bones.

Yes, Switch has games but how old is the system? How many Switch games are Wii U ports? Of course, there are some new games like Mario+Rabbids and the upcoming Mario and of course Nintendo is supporting their own system, but we have to wait and see that this support is extended and that Switch keeps selling.

To celebrate Switch's "success" six months later and before the userbase is significant is premature. I also wonder how third-party support is going to be in the near future. Probably, Nintendo doesn't need it. I don't know, do they need third parties? What I know for sure is that the reasons that they are giving for Wii U's failure are nonsense and that they are celebrating Switch's success a little too soon.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE I'm 6 foot 3 inches and the joycons feel great to me. Don't know what you're complaining about.

@darthstuey He tried the JoyCons though.

May and September are the only months this year that I can't think of a major first-party release...
because we had:
March: BOTW
April: Mario Kart
June: ARMS
July: Splatoon 2
August: Mario + Rabbids (Technically third-party but it's Mario so I'm counting it)
September: Pokken Tournament
October: Super Mario odyssey
December: Xenoblade 2

@darthstuey I have tried out the Joy-Con's and this was my first time using this article to express my opinion to say what I think of them and ask others what they think of them. Why are getting all defensive and snarky? I won't be buying a PS4 or an XB1 for that matter. I've never cared or bought any of their gaming products. I buy Nintendo only. And at the end they asked us what we thought and what improvements could be made on the Switch. I gave my answer on one aspect.

I think they failed to mention the botched launch and the name Wii U. I know several people who thought the Wii U was an add on for the Wii and of course most didn’t even know about it as there was very little advertising going on in the US.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE I’m 6’4” with big hands and I have no problems with the joy-cons.

@BlueOcean I agree that the Wii U was a great console, my list was in context of the article of lessons Nintendo should learn from the Wii U's lack of sales.
As far as the console itself it is a great system that the Switch owes it's success to. Four of the Switch's biggest games are remasters of Wii U games that were already great on that system. I own around 50 physical Wii U games and maybe a hundred more titles for the console from it's Virtual Console and eShop. The Switch has done well thus far on the past entries of the Wii U although I believe another game or two such as Super Smash Bros Wii U could help the console.

@MsgBoardGamer Yeah, but if you're looking at FIFA and NBA 2K... We only got half a FIFA and an extremely broken version of NBA. So I really really want to see how Bethesda does on the platform.

Lol. The Wii U certainly didn't fail commercially because it wasn't portable.
Its main problem was a lack of (clever) marketing and advertisement and a lack of dedication from Nintendo themselves.

I usually like Bill Trinen but his words are basically just marketing for the Switch and have nothing to do with the Wii U. They certainly are not an analysis of what Nintendo did wrong with the Wii U and it seems they will never truly understand it.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Better to have two solid ports than nothing at all. And considering how the Wii U was largely passed by, they were going to find new ground on the Switch.

Games like The Last of Us, GTAV, and Skyrim have received ports to the PS4/X1 that have sold very well, and probably took a fraction of the effort of a new game.

I like how versatile the Joy-Cons are and the tiny thumb sticks feel great to use. The Joy-Con grip is fine, I just don't like the tiny cramped shoulder buttons so got the Pro controller and it's the comfiest controller I've ever used, it's a great design. But the Joy-Con is a clever gimmick, 2 controllers straight out of the box is pretty nifty.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Your thoughts (and of those of the guy in the video) echoes my experience with the joycons. He has big hands and so do I, and went I tried them up, first at a friend's house and then at a game store (yes, the have one for people to play around), i found them to be uncomfortable small. I think that they need like a centimeter on each end to start feeling OKayish. Holding it sideways was a nightmare: my hands on the underside were touching each other all the time (and not in a good manner).
Also, the buttons feel a bit damped or mushy, not clickety at all. That did surprise as Nintendo has produced so many controllers that are top notch (I love my Wii U controller). However, for me is not that much of an issue: already bought a Pro controller and it feels, shape and size wise, even better than the Wii U one, and the buttons have a very nice clickety feel and distance (I mean, the distance they travel when you press it down). Also, my daughter has small hands and I don't see an issue with the buttons for her as she doesn't know better.

Finally, portability is very important for me so, yes, I will yield and buy a Switch. Soon. I promise.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE but you don't seem to like Nintendo's flagship console despite not owning one. There are plenty of things that anger me about them but this console isn't one of them. You are missing out on some seriously great games that have been released this year man. I can't get my head around what you want.
What triple A titles do you want that you keep referring to? Nintendo consoles don't cater for the likes of call of crap or other fodder like that hence why I suggested a PS4. What is it you want🤔
Your argument about Wii u ports is pointless- porting them is going to bring them to a wider audience. It also means there will be a continuous supply of games. Yes, I like you own many of the, already but millions won't. So with those- titles like fire emblem warriors, Mario odyssey and all the incredible indie games what are we missing here? I for one can't wait to have la noire on a console that I can play anywhere and I never thought it would happen. Please help,me out here- what do you want to see happen. And I'm sorry but you are simply wrong about the joycons- they work fine whatever way you use them. Plus 8bit do have a whole host of secondary controllers which work- I've bought two for four player games. I didn't mean to sound hostile but your constant repetion and negativity is baffling for someone who says they only buy Nintendo. Cheers.