Report Focuses on Nintendo Switch Touchscreen and IR Pointer on Joy-Con Controller

I still find it strange that it has less functionality than the Wii U in some ways. At least give developers the option of using the second screen in conjunction with the TV. Let the developers decide whether or not they want to use that feature.

Skeptical about the IR stuff being a replacement for touchscreen. For me, I'll be making turn based strategy games after I finish Flight of Light. For those it'll be weighing up if it's worth trying to adapt a game designed to work with touchscreen/mouse to use console controls. Philosophically, the answer is always no, but if people mostly use the Switch in portable mode, then might be worth having mediocre console controls just to pass lotcheck.

Or it could stream to the dock?

Like I said, it would be a major step back if it wasn't a touch screen. Still, it's good to hear that more then likely it is in fact a touch screen.

Yay, touchscreen.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Functionality that unfortunately people (and devs) didn't use.

The Wii remote has a IR camera in it and the "sensor" bar wasn't a sensor at all. It was a completely passive device that simply put out IR light. This is how people were able to use candles in place of a "sensor" bar. Emitter bar would have been a better, more accurate name.. Anyways, for this to work the joy cons would need a camera where the shoulder buttons are and i doubt that's the case considering how small these controllers are.

Just make the touch screen elements turn to a pointer that is controlled by the joycon's analog stick. Similar to using a ps3 controller on a PSTV. No big deal and you can keep the touchscreen options on all games.

@Ryu_Niiyama or make the space between the joycon ( the grip thingy) have a touchpad like a laptop

Or...when the Switch console inside the dock, still can accept wireless Nintendo accesories including Wii U gamepad.

@jimi what do you mean, you can't use switch when it's out of juice? You don't think there's a charge cable? So if i want to take this thing on a trip Nintendo would make me take the dock with me? lol c'mon, man. There WILL be charge cables for the mains and to plug in your car just like every portable device on the planet.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE what feature? switch doesn't have that feature. so there's no decision to be made.

@Anti-Matter i could see it supporting Wii remotes because they can be had cheaply but i think adding wii u gamepad support would fragment they user base too much and devs probably wouldn't bother to add support for it because few would have it.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE If the dock is what allows the "console" to connect to the TV, how do you propose two screens be used, without requiring a lot of resources and latency issues by streaming to the tv?

Wasn't the touch screen for the 3DS/Wii U resistive, not capacitive?

I don't care, as long as it's a touch screen with HD.

Did these words actually come from nintendo...nope. This is going to be the new rumors items we're going to hear about, and it's because people want to know more about the console, so with that in mind, others are going to make up something and watch as people flock to their pages. Nobody should relate to any of these articles unless we know it comes from nintendo...I even clicked onto this article to see, but since it didn't come from their mouths, I don't believe it. If it does offer touchscreen, fine, but during the commercial reveal, it didn't show any kind of stylus sticking somewhere in it, which means it probably isn't. If it is, you could probably just hook in the charge cable to keep it going.

It seems to me they'll take this approach: Make games primarily to be used with buttons. If the developer wants to, it could then also add in touch controls to make the game easier/more fun when played portable. Touch controls wouldn't be necessary, but a fun extra.

I think there might also be smart-phone style games that are only playable in portable mode.

I sure hope it does have a touch screen though. It'd make it a lot easier to surf the internet and stuff.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Pretty sure we already have the developers that decision, and they didn't want to.

@RoomB31 The same way the Wii U did it but in reverse. The Switch is supposedly far more powerful than Wii U so it shouldn't be a problem. Although it may require the Switch to be plugged in as it might eat up energy. Again, it could depend on how much is going on in the game.

@jimi pretty sure this report says the touch screen controls will be replaced in console mode by using Wiimote style pointer controls.

Honestly excited if this supports multitouch, capacitive touch screens have been outdated for awhile.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE You make it sound so simple, my guess is that it's not. But who knows, maybe this will become a feature.

Probably...there are another secret behind Switch. Maybe a Mysterious device. Oh...Toddles ! (Mickey Mouse Club House)

@jimi there certainly are a lot of unanswered questions that need, well... answering. I don't know how they're going to get around the touch screen controls. Maybe there just won't be any touch controls and the touch screen only used for OS and browsing.

It's perhaps a bit farfetched, but maybe they're thinking of releasing a bit of hardware that can slot into the dock somewhere that allows the Switch to stream to the TV? Just spitballing here.

Its not a Wii U, not a 3ds. Why do we need two screens? I'm fine with one.

I wrote this before, but I guess Nintendo won't come up with it themselves:

There's a simple solution and it's called using a cable (for TV-out and power supply).

That dock is pretty pointless as it is.
Maybe Nintendo did even think of such a cable, but then they realized that this cable would lead to all the not so technically versed people realizing that this is just a handheld/tablet.

I mean, everyone with a little bit of a technical background knows this already, but there are still millions of people lacking hardware knowledge who are easily fooled by marketing. And Nintendo desperately wants to make them believe that this is a hybrid or even a home console.

@brandon9271 That would add too much expense and defeat the purpose of the entire unit being compact and multi purpose. the grip is just for comfort, you don't NEED it. If you put a second screen interface it becomes a required component that doesn't work on the go. For better or for worse the Dual Screen era is over, trying to shoehorn it back in will undermine the Switch's main selling point.

I wonder how the joycon is powered... batteries or usb charging.

@andjahiam 3 AAA batteries. This is Nintendo.

In plain english, what does this mean: "a 10-point multitouch display (rather than the capacitive screens on Wii U, 3DS and DS")?

Those IR sensors are probably that gesture trademark we saw earlier, allowing for multitouch gameplay while the console is on the dock. Or they could be areas where such a device is attached to and function like the circle pad pro for the 3ds did.

Wait until January. That's it.

@rushiosan This.

I just want to play games with a gamepad and buttons. It worked fine for GameCube and has been working fine for Sony and Microsoft. I did enjoy playing Metroid Prime with the Wii remote. It made aiming so much better because I'm a mouse keyboard guy (I hate FPS games with an analog stick..) however, the meat and potatoes of console gaming is with a controller on one screen. All the other stuff alienated developers and put Nintendo in the mess they're currently in. The Switch just needs to play games on the go or at home. The more crap you try to shoehorn in the worse it will be. A jack of all trades, master of none is not what Nintendo needs right now.

@jimi How do we even know how Splatoon will play until we know if the joy pad has motion or not. I do agree though that if they somehow gimp Splatoon it wouldn't be nearly as fun with twin sticks. I hated that set up.

Questions mean doomed, right?

@SLIGEACH_EIRE I think there is a pretty good chance this is how it works. If you watch the first part of the trailer, the screen doesn't "switch" until well after the supposed connector has been removed. The switch doesn't happen until the console is completely out of the dock. I think you might be right... maybe if you have the console charging via cable, it can stream to the dock.

My guess is that they did not show this feature to avoid Wii U confusion. I don't anticipate them ever showing it in trailers either for this same reason. Maybe it will just be a feature they casually list on spec-sheets for more knowledgeable gamers to find.

It's my dream anyways... loved two-screen gaming and will be sad to see it go.

I thought we'd heard/read that touch controls might be a dialed back feature and not crucial to gameplay. If that's true than this report doesn't seem very far fetched. Next!

We have to accept the dual screen era is over. It didn't work in the Wii U and that condemned it in home consoles.
And the series that used the dual screen setup as intensively are probably dead. I don't think we will see Super Mario Maker again, unless they tweak it a lot. Splatoon can survive due to gyro controls, though.

The report makes perfect sense. I'd even take it further and say the Joy-Cons have the same technology as the Wii MotionPlus.

Switch'll be a touchscreen in portable mode only to use the internet browsing and navigate the console's operating system and apps. Maybe even play mobile games that Nintendo publishes as well.

In console mode, the right J-Con's IR pointer will be used to navigate the operating system. This is exactly the same way navigation worked the Wii U's operating system. Both screens used different methods for navigation (touchscreen for Gamepad; Wii Remote for TV). Switch just make the concept simpler since it's a one-screen console experience.

I could do without the touchscreen for 2 reasons:

1. I wouldn't want developers to feel compelled to utilize off-screen play of ANY kind since it didn't work well for Wii U

2. It wouldn't add a single thing to the gameplay.

*Sure, games like Super Mario Maker wouldn't work on the Switch in that case, but its worth the trade-off. Too many forced gyroscopic and touch controls hindered my enjoyment with the Wii U

@JLPick considering eurogamer and emily rodgers were spot on regarding the Nintendo Switch months ago I am happy to back them and believe the new leaks. Its pretty obvious that eurogamer and emily rodgers have solid and credible sources giving them information. They proved that the day the nintendo switch was revealed.

@Luna_110 I thought that, too, IRT to Super Mario Maker, but I never once looked at the TV while designing a level. To play the end result, yes, but a touchscreen lets you create all the levels you want, test them, and then dock to really play them. I think it'll be fine for this.

Stylus controls for Pikmin 4, on the other hand? -->

@jimi

I think you are being a bit overly dramatic. The beauty of the Switch controller is the level of configuration that is possible allowing for different control styles without necessarily having to buy different controllers.

Also whats wrong with touch controls being an optional feature? It's better to have as an option than simply force it on the player. Wii U mainly was an experiment to see how dual screen gaming could work with a home console. Long story short it didn't really work which is why Switch will mainly be a single screen experience according to Nintendo.

I don't exactly see how the screen going in the dock when not in use and playing at home constitutes for bad design considering the dock serves as a charging station and you have plenty of alternative means to play without using the tablet.

The other reason the touch screen isn't as important as uncha1n3d pointed out is that they probably don't wish to make developers feel compelled to incorporate second screen functionality or off screen play of any kind since it didn't really work well with Wii U. All that is required really from what I have heard is that games are able to run on the TV and on the tablet itself. And looking back at Wii U it probably wouldn't add much gameplay wise.

If they bring back Mario Maker they will likely tweak it to work in a single screen setup. Also the info states the Joy Cons will use IR pointer tech which can make sense for Splatoon.

@uncha1n3d

Touchscreen's not likely to be used for retail games unless Nintendo allows the Switch to play its smartphone games. 3rd party developers won't likely be using the touchscreen since #1, touchscreen will only be available in portable mode #2, these devz will be cutting their profit potential to publish portable only games on the Switch just to take advantage of touchscreen gameplay (not worth it) #3 for most games, using the touchscreen features didn't/doesn't translate to meaningful, game changing, gameplay (but Fire Emblem should allow me to move characters by touch in portable mode at the very least).

Sounds perfect way to do it for me. Touch in there for the OS and apps, but keep it out of the games.

It will have touch screen on the go, not for the home.

Two things:

There's no reason that a wire can't be introduced to free the pad from the dock and allow Wii-U style two-screen play at a later date. This is certainly not a focus right now because Nintendo would like very much to distance themselves from any comparisons with Wii-U.

Second, if a charge cord for the tablet screen doesn't already exist, I'll bet that it hits market relatively soon after release (especially from third parties). The pad has some sort of port for connecting with the dock, and there's no reason a cord couldn't be made to use that port solely for recharging the battery on the go. It would be foolish to assume that the only way to charge the system is in the dock just as it's foolish to assume that the screen is not touch capable because no one in the reveal trailer touched it.

I think the marketing is much better for Switch than Wii-U already. The message and system focus is clear, but that means that answers to these ancillary questions will have to wait.

@jimi your points 1, 2 and 4 are based entirely suppositions, not based on any actually confirmed facts. The article is based on a rumour (sure, coming from sources with a proven track record, but still unconfirmed by the manufacturer themselves).

We don't know for sure that it will have a multi-touch screen, it might be touch-free entirely - which would put it on par with all the other major home consoles other than the Wii U, and keep it unique from the tablet/smartphone market.

We don't know for sure that it will have motion control, all we have is Just Dance 2017 incoming, which could be reworked to be button-based - though I suspect not, and the 2 Joycons will work like Wiimotes for that - but who wants that kind of extensive motion-control play on the move anyway? That's a house party game! Dock the screen! Motion controls for mobile games are largely inconvenient. I know I wouldn't want to be twisting all over the place whilst commuting on the train...

We don't know the console will break with 1 drop. Nintendo's surely smart enough to make it sturdy, aren't they? Until the released product can be physically tested, give it the benefit of the doubt.

And I don't really get your 3rd point. Are you complaining that playing 2-player means giving up half your controller and having less inputs per person? Have you never played a game with just a Wiimote, or a NES controller? Hundreds of Wii games worked fine like that (Mario Kart and New Super Mario Bros being prime examples), and if you want a 2-player game which needs more complex controls, you can play head-to-head with another Switch in the room with a full pair of Joycons.

Please don't condemn a machine with so much still uncertain by assuming rumours and guesswork are fact, until it can be proven one way or the other.

@jimi I really don't get the "bye-bye, Miiverse" comment. Miiverse is primarily a social platform for sharing gameplay experiences, not just drawing images. They can do without handwritten posts and be just fine. Given the supposed "share" button, I think it's very likely we'll see Miiverse make a return in at least some capacity.

As far as touch controls go, I don't think they will be a major feature for the system... at all. That was one of the biggest complaints with Wii U, that the infrastructure was so different and hard to work with for third-parties, and so many first-party games tried to use the multi-screen gimmick to the point where it became un-fun. (Look at the reception of Star Fox Zero, Color Splash, etc.)

I also don't get why you think the Switch will be so much less durable than a DS or 3DS and break so easily. Nor do I understand your comment that Iwata would've handled Nintendo Switch better. Switch would have already been far along in production by the time Kimishima took office. Iwata was the one who announced project "NX," and I'm sure he was very heavily involved with it before his passing, just like he was with Pokémon Go, which went on to be a major success. I have confidence Iwata's final endeavor will be a terrific system and outperform the Wii U.

I don't think you understand just how expensive the technology is to have two separate screens producing the same image at a high-quality resolution. That's why the GamePad had such low-resolution display, and having to reprogram their games to run on two separate screens was too big a hassle for third-parties--another reason they didn't support Wii U.

Ideally, being able to play on two screens like Wii U while still be able to take the handheld unit on the go with crisp HD display would be fantastic. But it's not feasible and creates more problems than benefits for developers including Nintendo, as well as resulting in a jacked-up console price, and Nintendo always tries to keep their products affordable for the masses.

As far as the need for motion controls, in my personal experience, I played Prime Trilogy on Wii and tired of having to constantly hold my arm up to aim. Don't get me wrong, the game played just fine, but I think I would have found the traditional control scheme with two analogs to have been preferable. The first two Prime games I think were for GameCube, and no one complained about the controls then, as far as I know. Making a Prime 4 with no motion controls would be the same as most of the Prime games were already made to be in the beginning. I hope motion controls are there for those who do prefer them, but they're really not that essential.

As @gaga64 stated, it's really too early to be making so many bold assumptions about the system we know so little about, but I respect your viewpoint.

@JLPick ...Except it's from Eurogamer and Emily Rogers, who have been pretty damn spot-on in regards to the Switch.

The device will function in two very distinct markets, which can happily coexist albeit exclusively within this one device

Home console, where touchscreen will be irrelevant and rightly so as you want to keep game development gimmick free so as not to alienate the 3rd parties - but it will seamlessly offer mobile gaming with (hopefully) zero concern for the developer.

Mobile exclusive gaming and what is a huge array of touch specific games that can appear on the eshop - with no intent of ever being played via the dock on a big screen.

Simples

This'll be fun. There's 3 types of games the Switch theoretically can play: Home console, portable console, and mobile games. For those that would play the Switch just for mobile gaming, they'll most likely have just the "tablet" in hand for the casual experience, which means a touchscreen would be mandatory. For portable console gaming, I think touch screen gaming would be a "choice" that the user can use, or they can perfectly play said hardcore experience touchscreen free-- and it goes without saying, that if the game is programmed to allow for both touchscreen controls or not, then there you are for the hardcore tv experience. I think we're thinking too hard about all this, honestly. Don't forget how a lot of 3rd parties didn't like when Nintendo forced touchscreen or pointer play during the DS/Wii era and asked for a "normal" option of play. Well, considering past mistakes, and the robustness of the Switch, I see no reason it won't be touchscreen capable, but neither touchscreen mandatory, or touchscreen-less, system.

@Not_Soos

Well said, and my thoughts exactly regarding why the Switch is a one screen experience. But as far as playing Metroid Prime 3... you never tried resting your arm on your leg while you played so you only had to move your wrist to aim? Holding your arm up for an extended period of time sounds tiresome and uncomfortable.

Except it doesn't need it. Most of the Wii U's biggest games never or rarely used the touch screen aside from a map screen.

The Gamepad did very little for the Wii U and I doubt we'll lose much by not having it again.

Now as for being a touch screen for menu options or drawing? I'd say that's reasonable.

@jimi Actually that's an opinion

@Anti-Matter The problem there is that the Switch has to be designed to stream to the Gamepad. It's not as simple as just a controller.

Lol at all the silly ranting people. We know nothing at all about whether this is true or not, nor any of the specs of the pad or dock. So to say that this is the worse console ever and they did everything wrong, is simply you being ignorant to the fact that these aren't the facts. Everyone knows what happens when you assume. And you're being a big one right now ranting about how these hypothetical changes are the worst.

Yes yes, but what about Inkstrikes in Splatoon? Where does one 'touch' to splat all his enemies in one delicious pressings of the screens?

@Emperor-Palpsy Good question. I'd imagine they'd have to offer the inkling some temporary invincibility or just redesign it.

They could easily create a dummy console that sits in the dock and streams to your Switch screen like the Wii U. It would just be another add-on accessory.

People need to realize that this was a 3 minute trailer to position the system within the way Nintendo plans on marketing it. Who says you can't wirelessly stream from the unit to the dock? That would make Wii U digital titles a reality. I just think Nintendo is waiting to go into those details. And I really hope the Joy Cons do have motion and I pointing functionality.

Personally I would like touch screen to not feature at all in the Switch. Never really enjoyed touch screen gaming.

All rumors are pointing to touch on the screen, which makes sense. I think we all know this game will inevitably have a Super Mario Maker game, and while solutions like IR pointing or navigating one block at a time with the D-pad or joystick are feasible for when you play on TV, you're gonna wanna design on the screen, and you're gonna want it to be easy like it is with Mario Marker on the Wii U, so it's gonna have it, I guarantee that.

Point is, though, no game can ever make touch a requirement for the system so that you can play it on the TV, hence the IR pointer in the Joy Con controller solution, it's a solution, not one that will be as quick to utilize, but there nonetheless for the TV gamer. Really thats fine with me, I'll always build Mario Maker levels on the handheld and then play the levels either on the TV or on the go.

Playstations remote play

@Steelhead You enjoy Mario Maker at all? I'm not a big fan of touch screen gaming (except for quick inventory management in a game like Zelda), but I'm a big fan of Mario Maker, and even if that's the only game on the system that will ever have much of a utilization for a touch screen, it is absolutely a title that benefits from it.

I think one of the clearest signs that it's gonna have a touch screen is that they announced DeNA as 3rd party support for the system. DeNA are the developers of Nintendo's mobile games, seems like a safe bet that they'll also make those mobile games like Super Mario Run available on the Switch, and as such, seems like a safe bet it'll have a touch screen.

@WhiteTrashGuy I kind of doubt it can wireless stream to the dock; however, I do think they may allow for the Wii U gamepad to connect to the system, for both better on the go multiplayer and for better control schemes, Breath of the Wild (or any Zelda for that matter) will benefit from touch screen for quick inventory management, if the Wii U version has that but the Switch version doesn't, I'd actually probably be more interested in the Wii U version.

@duffmmann No, not at all. But that is largely due to the fact I don't enjoy games based on user generated content.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE

I feel like that's modern Nintendo. A step forward here a step back there. For every brilliant thing they do, they do a headscratching thing.

Wha?

What would be the point in having a 10-point touchscreen... And I don't mean that it shouldn't have touchscreen, but... 10-point??? How would you use both hand's finger to play a game or anything, especialy on a 6,2" screen system???

@Steelhead Well if you don't like other people's content, that's cool, but I love designing my own levels, I put a lot of detail and care in them and love to watch my friends try to solve them. Even if you aren't a fan of the game, I think you'd agree that it's incredibly likely that the Switch is gonna get a Super Mario Maker game, and as such, its gonna have a touch screen. The good news is, it will never be a requirement due to the fact that you only play on one screen based on everything we know (unless say you can connect a Wii U gamepad to it or something, but still they're not going to require anyone to get such a thing if they don't have one).

A cable to connect the dock and the screen. Done. Solved. Give me money, Nintendo.

Still, the 6.2 inch screen is a big bummer, since Iwas expecting 8 inches, at least.

Hmmm. I like the idea of being able to navigate the home menu in the same ways as the Wii U. Touch, Button, or Pointer. And for the games things get a lot more complicated. Most games will probably just ingore the functionality alltogether, but I'm sure we'll get a few gems from our Nindie buddies that will utilize touch/motion and be really good.

Also, I love my new profile pic. Any Berserk fans here?

Wii U never had a capacitive touch screen

I makes sense that the switch might have Ir. The 3ds does, and that's for nearby offline multiplayer, so wouldn't i make sense for the switch to do the same? Also, this could mean that the switch could act as a tv remote like the wii u, a feature I always loved.

If true, both of those specs are good with me (for the most part), 720p, touchscreen (with IR when plugged into dock).

@duffmmann it's more like I don't enjoy making my own content, which strikes me as the main hook of the game. I guess you could call me a consumer, rather than a creator. It would be hard to imagine a Mario maker game working without touchscreen.

If touchscreen is a feature of the switch I doubt it will an issue. I have had some great experiences on my 2ds after all.

All these issues aside, the main problem I see is if a family member takes the tablet to play on the go those at home are left without a system. With a dedicated handheld and a dedicated console all were happy.

How many Switches are families expected to purchase?

@Turbo857 Thank you! And I'm sure I had my arm propped up on something, I can't remember. However I held it, it wasn't exactly bothersome, just not quite as comfy as a traditional controller would've been. And it was actually the first Prime game in Trilogy, which I downloaded off the Wii U eShop and never beat after getting stuck in Phendrana Drifts. I really aughtta go back to it at some point...

@k8sMum As many as they feel they want? For many it just won't leave the house, for others it will more often and they'll weigh the costs and buy what they want/need. Exact same way it works out with consoles and 3DS. Not sure why this is such a problem.

I'm betting my family will start with one and be happy for a bit and probably end up with two, but if the right games come along with the right circumstances...

Well, considering the number of hits vs misses concerning these sources so far, I think it's safe to say that there is at least some reason to suspect it is true. Maybe not 100% yet, but certainly very possible.

I've read all of the comments, had a few laughs at some silly ones, some had me wondering about stuff, and I also asked myself why almost EVERYONE missed the whole "when docked, your smart device can act as a touch screen for the game" thing, instead coming up with all kinds of crazy and convoluted solutions like having some extra cable or contraption to be able to use the screen outside of the dock when playing on the TV, most of which don't seem to be particularly user-friendly or even technically possible, primarily because the handheld part needs to be inserted into the dock to be displayed on the TV, so a solution to force the handheld to work outside of the dock isn't really a good one...

Nintendo has mentioned several times that they also wanted to integrate what was then called code name NX with other devices such as smart phones & tablets. So, second screen experiences can easily be transferred/streamed to smart devices, now that Nintendo has also moved over to capacitive HD screens. And that would also be a pretty good solution for the Wii U remakes that are bound to happen. Some of these can easily be transformed into single screen experiences, but for other games it would be nice to still have that touch screen available.

So, I can see the IR solution happening and it would also be a decent explanation for why the heck the tablet is sticking out of the dock that much when inserted. There's no good technical or aesthetic reason for that to not be completely covered by the dock, in my opinion. So, basically, the edge sticking out when docked would act as the Switch version of the Wii/Wii U sensor bar:

which really doesn't sound all that implausible.

I do find it weird that if the infrared controls are true, that it's only the right JoyCon that will be offering this functionality, unless the left one will act as a nunchuck, which is the only thing that makes sense in that case. I do hope that you can switch it around then to accommodate people being used to holding the Wiimote in their left hand.

Oh well, maybe they'll tell us a bit more about all of that in January...

Nintendo presented the Switch the way it did for good reason. All of these extra facts may be true but no one should start adding on additional ideas about how games might still be played like on Wii U or that the primary input for most games is going to be different than how it was presented.

Nintendo has positioned it this way with purpose. We can be relatively sure that 1. There will be no second screen gaming going on unless you have more than one Switch and 2. games aren't going to work on the big screen if you have the console in portable mode.

I do think it's likely that the standard controls will have accelerometer/gyro and it's possible we'll get pointing in there as well (IR lights in the top of the Switch in the bezel around the screen is my guess).

@aaronsullivan Adding a second Switch in handheld mode to accommodate for dual screen gaming: good one. I need to add that to my list of solutions. A really good one.

@jimi
Deep breath cuz the big N hasn't said anything themseles yet....

But MAYBE it's because there's no touch controls for games in general (more in line with other consoles for 3rd party development) but when you take it out to use it as a tablet.... boom. Touch specific apps like the ipad. I would like that. Get some android app store on there in adittion to my core gaming system.

@ThanosReXXX
I think you are right on in that last post (well, the one before that — we cross-posted). 100% agree with you.

Nintendo wants to position Switch as a compliment to your smartphone because it has no chance at replacing it. Nintendo games and apps are going to smartphones after all. It is already making money there. If it wants some second screen supporting apps for some games it makes much more sense to also release them for smartphones.

It could be a replacement for a tablet, though, as @rjejr likes to point out and that's where multitouch screen comes in.

Guys - the Switch might just use Touchscreen controls when being used as a TRADITIONAL TABLET!

It's treu- I will miss the 2nd screen use in Splatoon - I don't know how Ink series are gonna be aimed. . . .

@ThanosReXXX To be clear, I'm not talking about one person using two devices, but for when you want local multiplayer. Potentially, the price and utility makes it more likely than with full-on consoles.

I wonder if we'll see that patent from Nintendo come to fruition on the Switch where it had the controls on the edge of the touchscreen?

Not sure how Nintendo could ever patent that as I thought loads of mobile games have them already, but I'm intrigued to see if that sees the light of day on the Switch. Don't think I'd use them personally, they're god awful from my experience!

Not bad. My guess is it will support mobile games, which make more sense playing undocked and when docked compatibility with virtual console.
They also mentioned active interest in VR as well as having resources to produce it which would make sense considering the possibilities of the Joy-cons and living up to the name "Switch"
This is getting closer to true modular gaming, not in terms of specs but in terms of gameplay experiences. The tablet being the console solves the issue of wires with VR as well as accessibility through Gear VR-like solutions even if it's not on par with the likes of HTC Vive or PSVR. All without having to sacrifice the innovations of generations past with the exception of dual screen gaming a la "Wii U" (DS games and 3DS games could still be emulated, the 2DS is essentially one touch screen)

@aaronsullivan Ah, okay. I was indeed thinking one system docked and then using the second one as a handheld for dual screen gaming. I see no solution where the tablet can display on the TV when not in the dock. That's not how this system seems to work.

And I was actually agreeing with @rjejr (AGAIN) about the handheld part being a replacement for a tablet (why else would it have a capacitive touch screen), but don't tell him that...

But in all seriousness: I think that with a single system, the touch screen will only be used on the go.

@GravyThief Seems like the Switch already provides controls on the edge of the touch screen, albeit not ON the screen...

I suppose you meant these?



Or did you mean this one?

If so, then it seems like that has ultimately become the left and right JoyCon.

Surely Nintendo wouldn't design a system where the controls would be gimped when it's docked.

Either the JoyCons control Pad thing also supports multi touch... Or there is no touch. This is the sort of complexity developers don't want to handle.

I'd be more comfortable if there is no touch at all. Look at the use cases with the kick stand. Touch wouldn't work there.

Even for mobile developers... Unless it does switch into a "true" mobile type device, like an iPad. Which means those games wouldn't work when docked, which would infer a streaming type model. Meh, very, very messy.

Keep this thing simple. Play high end console games on the go.

@ThanosReXXX

Most people would have their dock beside their tv like the switch video. Which would make the ir not aligned well with the tv and unable to replicate the wiimote point at the screen ability. The tech is pretty limited on side calibration so I don't really see that being an option. Makes me think think that without a sensor bar attached to the dock ir will be inferior to what we are used to.

@ThanosReXXX it was the first one, thanks for digging them out! I forgot about the second one though...

I'm just wondering if it will also have the controls on the touchscreen as an option, so it can be used if you just have the tablet without the Joycons if you're out and about and using it as an actual tablet. Hardly ideal for proper gaming, but an extra option if needed.

Looking at the first patent again however, it very much does look like a concept that'll never see the light of day.

@jimi "Nintendo is DOOOOOOMED!!!"

@cfgk24 Given how vulnerable you are when prepping an inkstrike, I doubt it'd see much of an effective change. Probably just use the gyro to aim a cursor to the desired point of an onscreen map.

@Not_Soos Metroid Prime's controls on the GameCube didn't really do the dual-analog thing. The C-stick was used to select your visor or weapon (I forget which), and L was used to stand in place to aim manually---or lock-on Zelda-style and strafe-toggle if you had an enemy in your sights. Despite such controls being horrendously clunky and not allowing manual aiming, I didn't see complaints about it back then for some reason. But when I did, the common response (excuse) was basically "it's not a shooter, it's an adventure, so it's okay". Compared to that mess, the Wii pointing was pretty much a godsend.

Would be easy to add the Miracast function to the Switch so that you could easily synch a Wii U gamepad and use it.

I knew it.

It's the whole package, but they wanted the savvy fans to focus on the fact that it does traditional games well.

I'm slightly more likely to pay a higher price for it if this all turns out to be true.

@cleveland124 In the part of the trailer where Skyrim is played, the dock is installed right underneath the TV, so that could work. The part where the dock is not perfectly set up in relation to the TV is when using the pro controller, so for that it won't matter.

I have all my current consoles on a shelf underneath my TV, and I can imagine that I'm not the only one that has placed them there.

But for now this is all theorizing, so guess we'll have to wait until January to find out more. If they're even going to talk about this possible function, that is...

@ThanosReXXX "There's no good technical or aesthetic reason for that to not be completely covered by the dock, in my opinion."

Think toast in a toaster. They already showed us why. Notice the flush sides.

@aaronsullivan You, Thanos and I have pointed all of this out before, 2 and 3 months ago.

Posts #116-129 (give or take)
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/08/rumour_detachable_nx_controllers_will_offer_wii-like_motion_control_and_advanced_force_feedback

Post #10 is my favorite of all time. #93, #158 BIG TIME
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/07/multiple_sources_outline_a_portable_nx_with_detachable_controllers_including_a_base_station_for_tv

I'm not sure if it's the Tessera CT or not though, it looks so cheap and flimsy, the tessera the should be powerful and commanding.

Reputable German dev came out and said he believes Switch is using a Tegra X2!

Oh for poop's shake...

1) The dock has been confirmed to contain extra hardware, part of which is there to not look like the games look bad while running om a tv, therefore it would be a stupid idea to remove

2) The screen is most likely touch screen and the right Joy-con likely has a pointer, which can be used for the same purposes. Part of why the Wii U made a horribly first impression was that they focused too much on what the console can do and too little on the games in it's reveal trailer

3) It's not like touch screens or Wiimotes was super-important for any game they were used in, except the Wii series and a couple Kirby games. Those can literally be counted on one hand...

4) If any company can deliver on any hardware it's Nintendo, so why complain? They've showed us for a whooping 43 years now that they can deliver AAA-games, whetever it's for their first or latest console

@SteamedSquid Ah, m'kay. Seems like they could rework the control scheme for the Switch relatively easily, though. I'm guessing the GameCube's c-stick wouldn't have been ideal for aiming, anyways. Hmm, but then if "Prime 4" uses the right analog for aiming, how would you rotate the camera...? Eh, Nintendo's smart, they'll figure something out.

@hoshinosammy
Well, Nope DUH !
Nintendo is still Alive.
Just wait until 12 January 2017 for more details.

Chill, guys... We've lived with one-screen no-touch consoles before and nothing bad happened. Our favorite games are all from those times. We've been through the unfortunate dual-screen gold rush and now it's over. Just be happy and carry on.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE

They already did give developers that option, and the vast majority hated the idea and/or didn't know what to do with it. There's no reason to go back to a feature that failed with the Wii U. It's done.

@ThanosReXXX

Well based on a 6.2" tablet and the fact that the dock stands up straight you are looking at 5-6" for height. Also you'd need at least that much room to comfortable slide the NS into the dock and back out. Really more room to comfortably do it, so looking at 10-12" minimum height. That's more than my entertainment stand shelves and my entertainment shelves are on the side, not lined up with the middle. Most TV stands do not have the tv 6" off the table. So my guess is, if you have a tv wall mounted and use the top of your entertainment stand for your consoles, then you'll be fine. I'm not sure how many people have that. You'll also have to center horizontally, which may or may not make sense depending on what else you keep on the top of your entertainment stand.

It's a relatively small thing, but these things add up. A home console would have a sensor bar, a handheld wouldn't. NS is trying to be both, so they went with the thing that benefits taking it to a basketball game and having a senor bar built into the handheld to play on the side of the court after the game I guess.

@aaronsullivan

How many a family buys will be dependent upon the price. It won't be easy convincing a family with 3 kids that they need to buy 3 systems. Disposable income is down and many are facing job insecurities.

I know that some here post they can buy as many/as expensive whatevers that they want and they don't understand that funds are finite on a weekly basis for others, but it's not generally true of those with young(ish) kids.

Just because it wouldn't be a consideration for you doesn't mean it won't be for others. I'm not attacking your reasoning. I just think more will be hesitant to buy multiple systems, especially those that are casual gamers.

@k8sMum

That's why keeping the 3ds alive now and releasing more skus later make sense (cheaper/smalle) handheld and no screen dock only.

@Not_Soos Standard practice in shooters these days is to just have the targeting reticle stay nice and stiff in the middle of the screen while the camera moves around. This is normally done (on a console) by pretending the right analog stick is a mouse. The WiiU GamePad's gyro control, however, is like a replacement for Wii pointing. I would expect Switch controllers to also have gyro.

@rjejr

That joycon dock makes me cringe. It's like you thought the dreamcast and original xbox controllers were ridiculous? We can be a bigger square than those.

I was kind of hoping they had dropped motion controls and touchscreens from the console altogether. The 30somethings in the video would all have grown up with classic controllers.

Unless it runs as a tablet asked Nintendo are courting mobile developers too

Quick primer on touchscreen technology, since as a few others mentioned, this article gets it wrong:

The two big touchscreen technologies are resistive (older) and capacitive (newer). DS, 3DS, and Wii U all use resistive screens. Every smartphone and tablet made since 2007 have used capacitive screens.

Resistive screens rely on pressure on a specific pixel (more or less) on the screen, which gives them naturally high resolution/precision and makes them work well with styluses (stylii?), but not so much with big fat fingers. Since they need localized pressure, they can't be used with a glass screen, and for technical reasons, they don't support multitouch.

Capacitive screens rely on changes in the electrical properties above a screen as your big watery sausage fingers pass over it. Since it's something of an ambient sensing mechanism, it's not as high-res as resistive screens, but modern devices are usually decent at figuring out where the center of your finger should be given its big, uh, footprint on the screen. Since it's tuned to the sort of electrical changes a finger causes, it won't respond to a hard plastic stylus, but there are big nobbly rubber ones that work with them. Capacitive screens work fine under glass, and support multitouch pretty easily (and mostly universally in modern screens).

The first touchscreens, found in things like PalmPilots, were resistive, and found reasonable, but limited, success, confined to the niche of "business gadget" by their banal plastic screens and necessary stylus use.

Resistive screens were still the law of the land when the DS launched to widespread acclaim in 2004, which worked out pretty well in spite of the conflicting control schemes of holding a stylus and holding the console for button presses. Nintendo's stuck with the tried and true resistive technology in all its touchscreen systems since.

The first widespread use of capacitive screens was by Apple in 2007 (I think), who in a stroke of genius realized that by sacrificing the precision offered by resistive technology (and dumbing down the user interface to accomodate it), they could make a viscerally sexy glass-screened slab, sturdy enough to earn a permanent spot in the pants pocket, that could be pulled out and touched directly without fussing around with an awkward stylus. That device would be known as the iPhone.

Oh, and there's also Wacom, a company with a proprietary ultra-high-definition electromagnetic resonance technology that's been quietly producing professional screens that use a specialized (but still unpowered) resonant stylus to do artist-quality work. Their tech is represented in the mainstream right now mostly under license to Samsung, who's combined it with a capacitive screen to produce their seriously cool Note line, which can swap seamlessly between the convenience of a finger-jabby capacitive screen and a stylus-driven screen more precise than any resistive screen. But no way would Nintendo ever pony up the cash for that tech.

So yeah, quick wall of text that I'm sure everyone will read 130 comments down on a day-old article =/

I'm guessing it will be multitouch, but retail games will not be allowed to use touch. I am betting Nintendo will have different sections to its online store. A retail game section, a virtual console section, and an app section similar to Google Play Store. Nintendo will have its smartphone games available in the app section, and you will probably see candy crush and Hearthstone there.

It would be nice to get back to a sensibly designed console that doesn't over complicate the gamers environment.
I can happily game without the touch screen element .

Of course it has a touchscreen. Wouldn't make sense without it!

@rjejr "Think toast in a toaster. They already showed us why. Notice the flush sides."

So, the protruding edge is only for our greasy fingers to pull the tablet out? Nice to have smudges on the screen from the moment you pick it up...

I'd think that attaching the JoyCons and lifting it out with the help of those is a much more elegant solution.

And my toaster only has protruding slices of bread when they're done toasting. When busy, the bread is fully inserted...

"You, Thanos and I have pointed all of this out before, 2 and 3 months ago."
And yet, I'm nowhere to be found in these comments, only mentioned by you in two of them...

@cleveland124 My TV is standing on a movable (wheels) two-shelf cabinet with ample space in between, so TV on the top shelf, consoles (and video/media devices) on the lower shelf.

But admittedly, at that size and having to account for sliding the tablet with controllers attached upwards, effectively doubling the space needed to comfortably take it out of the dock, it's going to be a tight fit, even with my setup, so it'll either be just enough room to do that or I'll have to tip the dock slightly forward...

But I do know a lot of people that have their TV wall-mounted, and of course that is not representative of the larger demographic, but still: there are more than enough people that'll at least have some option to put the console underneath their TV.

But maybe there isn't even a sensor bar hidden in the tablet, making all of these speculations instantly irrelevant.

Two and a half months to go until we might get an answer...

@ThanosReXXX Except they show the Joy-Con, which I've always hated the idea of, on the Grip. Let's say a parent or kid is playing the Switch on the TV using the joy-cons attached to the Grip. Then somebody else wants the TV. Do you expect the person playing to take the joy-con off the grip, attack them to the tablet, take the tablet out, set it up on its kickstand, then detach the jc and re-attach them to the Grip? That is way too much work.

And if your toaster doesn't stick the toast above the top edge, then it's time for you to buy a new toaster. I think it would be cost prohibitive to make the dock go up and down like a toaster, easier to just have it 80% covered at all times so greasy fingers can get it in and out while the jc are attached to the Grip.

No, the real question isn't "Why is the dock only covering 80%?", it's "Why is the screen I am paying for covered at all?" That's still a stupid design decision I'll never get past. And the whole "stability" argument doesn't fly with me at all, the guy is using Switch on its kickstand on a flimsy airplane table, the slightest bit of turbulence and Switch is on the floor.

The only explanation that works for the wall covering the screen is so that Nintendo didn't have to explain to people why Switch is a 1 screen only system. "Look, you can't do 2 screens, the wall is covering the screen." That's it, the only reason for the wall is b/c Nintendo is too lazy to speak up. And the only reason the wall only goes up 80% is do you can get it in and out w/o the jc on.

Which begs the question, why no dual screen? And I'm guessing they might have actually finally learned something. When Reggie and Bill Trinnen were telling everybody - "Yes, there will be dual Gamepad games, yes next year when we sell the Game pads separately." But then, oops, the Wii U graphics can't do 2 Gamepads at once. So I'm guessing the Tegra chips really don't want to do 2 screens at once either. And no companies want to make 2 screen games. And nobody wants to pay for the screen developers aren't using. Oops, Nintendo expects home gamers to pay for a screen they aren't using, the docked Gamepad. Let's see how it goes.

One step forward - the hybrid some people wanted, 2 steps back - paying for a screen we can't see b/c it's behind the wall we gave to pay for.

They probably should have just given up the ghost on home console gaming, make a handheld w/ TV out over HDMI mini. Sell it cheap. Then later sell a $30 wireless dongle for 720p and stereo out, or a $80 upres SCD dock thing w/ 1080p and 5.1 surround. But theyou couldn't, b/c Wii U crashed and burned while 3DS lives on, so they squeezed their tablet into a dock and called it a "home" console.

January 12th better be the greatest thing ever, b/c I think the shine is coming their 3:37 trailer. As I've always said, it's the details. None of which seem great so far.

@cleveland124 I've never seen a controller that square before. It's so big they could have put a screen in the middle. And it's so ugly I've been calling it the "Jar Jar controller". It kind of looks like him if you squint.

@rjejr "Except they show the Joy-Con, which I've always hated the idea of, on the Grip. Let's say a parent or kid is playing the Switch on the TV using the joy-cons attached to the Grip. Then somebody else wants the TV. Do you expect the person playing to take the joy-con off the grip, attack them to the tablet, take the tablet out, set it up on its kickstand, then detach the jc and re-attach them to the Grip? That is way too much work."

I'm either beginning to question my own sanity or you having actually seen the trailer...

In that trailer, it is CLEARLY shown how easy it is to connect the JoyCons, take the device out of the dock, and play it like that, WITH the controllers attached. There is no option to use the controllers on the TV without the system docked or the system without it being docked so none of that makes any sense. (sorry for that bit, misread you there in my hurry to respond)

And if you prefer the Pro Controller, you can also use that if you want, as shown in the Splatoon segment, so I don't see any of these bears that you're needlessly throwing on the road.

I think you're still trying to shoehorn some two player functionality into one dock, but that's not going to happen. The devices will probably be synced to one another in some shape or form, and that would simply mean that each tablet needs its own dock, and even if that's not the case, it'll probably still be true that each separate device needs its own dock. From what I've understood, there are also not going to be any bundles without a dock, so...

And no one says that you HAVE to use the JoyCon grip, so that point is irrelevant.

You're also "a bit" too hung up on the whole "screen I cannot see" thing. It too is irrelevant, since dual screen gaming is a thing of the past with the Switch and like I already proposed in my first comment in this thread, they could easily use smart devices for that for the few instances where it actually IS needed, for example with a number of Wii U remakes, but other than that, we're not missing out on any functionality AT ALL, that is creating a problem that really isn't there.

P.S.

My toaster is in perfect working order and if I insert the bread into it, it is COMPLETELY inserted, otherwise I wouldn't be able to get it evenly toasted, now would I? It only sticks out when it's done and the bread is ejected from the toaster...

P.P.S.

The dog is a MUCH better likeness of the JoyCon grip. The color scheme alone is enough to make that obvious, and the handles on the grip are perfectly representing hanging dog ears.

To see Jar Jar Binks in it, I'm going to need a hell of a whole lot more imagination or a truckload of drug/alcohol-induced squinting, because it doesn't look like that at all...

@rjejr Here's the entire interview that Bloomberg did with mr. Kimishima, and it actually contains quite a bit of interesting information. The other Kimishima article underneath it is also related and interesting:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-28/nintendo-s-big-switch-q-a-with-president-tatsumi-kimishima
All info straight from the horse's mouth, pretty clear and in some areas actually quite promising, so all in all, both articles are a good read.

@ThanosReXXX "In that trailer, it is CLEARLY shown how easy it is to connect the JoyCons, take the device out of the dock, and play it like that, WITH the controllers attached."

And of course trailers would never LIE to us, I'm sure it's always that 100% "I can do it in my sleep w/ my eyes closed" easy. For a 8 year old, who's drunk dad is yelling at him to get off the TV b/c his dad wants to watch the game. It will not be that easy, it just won't.

"The devices will probably be synced to one another in some shape or form, and that would simply mean that each tablet needs its own dock,"

And I thought the wall was stupid. Talk about needlessly throwing up roadblocks. If my kid gets a new Switch game and brings it to his friends house, who also owns Switch, he should have to bring his dock w/ him and not be able to use the other kids dock? I know he could simply move his cart into the other kids dock, but what if he bought it on the eShop? What if he spends the night at my parents and they own a Switch, he has to bring his dock to my parents? Don't laugh, we used to bring our Wiimotes to my parents house all the time, they owned Wii - not Wii U, nobody does - but only 2 Wiimotes, so we always brought 2 of ours for 4 player.

What on earth would make you think they would sync some how? Does your toast sync w/ your toaster? I just don't get it. If every tablet doesn't work in every dock this thing is junk.

Thanks for the Bloomberg links, I'll read that later.

@aaronsullivan

Yup, 2 Switches (or more) for local multiplayer gives players a full screen to themselves without having to play online. Incredible value and advantage over other consoles that no one seems to mention.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Packing in motion and touch gimmicks that would do little more than add to the cost of the console and/or complicate ports? Seriously? Where have you been for the last four years? That's the very thing that got the Wiiu in trouble.

@rjejr Been thinking about that "dock fits every handheld" thing and technically you're probably right, or rather: logically you're right, there shouldn't be any restriction if you for some reason would want to take your handheld with you to somebody else's dock and dunk it in there. But we're talking about Nintendo here, so who knows what they've restricted or censored.

Oh wait: that last bit is another topic...

But I do still think that even in a single home, each tablet will need its own dock, if only to charge the handheld. And Nintendo has already said that there will be no separate tablet or dock packages, so you'll always buy the two combined.

As for the ease of connecting/removing the controllers: I forgot to mention that the guy playing in the trailer who they interviewed also said so, so that's an actual person talking from his own experience with the prototype.

In general, final designs are always improved upon, so if the prototype was easy to operate, then the final product will be even better.

And what makes me think they would sync is the controllers. They certainly need to be detected by either the handheld on it's own or the handheld in the dock, albeit in the handheld-only configuration only when you use them disconnected from the tablet.

Could just be simple infrared, but it could very possibly also be a similar protocol as was used by the Wii and Wii U, and as such, these devices and controllers are indeed synced.

You could probably also pair or sync other controllers, for example if you have to buy new ones because you've broken one of them, or when they come out with additional hardware, such as mr. Kimishima has already explained in that interview, but initially, only the controllers and dock coming with the tablet will be synced to each other.

@ThanosReXXX "And Nintendo has already said that there will be no separate tablet or dock packages, so you'll always buy the two combined."

And which Ninteod would that be? The one who said NX would be multiple consoles like Apple, or the one who said 3DS would not replace the Gameboy, or the one who said Zelda U in 2015 and 2016?

And I bet if you go back and look, somewhere in there they probably added "at launch".

If Switch sells like Wii, no separate tablet. If Switch sells like Wii U, separate tablet, at least in Japan. Or "Switch" isn't sold separately, but "Switch Mini" is. I still think at some point in it's life there will be a 5" Switch that stands up in that dock vertically.

And I'm pretty sure in that interview Kimishima made some comment like "this is only the begining", so there will be other things. And not just hardware and accessories, that was a different part of th einterview, the mutiple platform part was somewhere else. So things they probably already said there woudln't be, will be.

And if you want a reason for syncing the tablet to the dock, external HDD like Wii U has hooked up to those USB ports. Though I think I read another roomer that there would be no external HDD support, so there goes that.

Maybe when Wikileaks and the FBI finish releasing all of Clinton's email we'll find out what Switch can and can't do.

@ThanosReXXX And if the rumour is true about USB-C, you can just use this to hook it up to the dock, or plug it in to power anywhere.

https://smile.amazon.com/Cable-CableCreation-10Gbps-Female-Extension/dp/B01FM4ZTZY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1477770392&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=usb-c+extension+cable&psc=1

So much we still don't know, only 70 more days, give or take.

@Anti-Matter What's sarcasm?

@KidRad So you didn't notice the games? I thought that's what mattered the most to gamers. And you don't have to use it as a portable, so the portable element shouldn't bother you.

@rjejr Most of the answers are in that Kimishima interview, don't know if you've read that yet. It's an interesting read, both articles actually.

USB-C in and of itself tells us nothing, since there is also some other mechanic inside the dock that both shuts down the display (a function that could not be appointed to the USB-C connector) and from all reports done by the EuroGamer leaker, who up til now has been 100% right, the dock will also enable the handheld to perform in an overclock mode because it has additional cooling.

In handheld mode it is under-clocked, both to keep it from overheating and to keep the playtime/battery life acceptable. If it would perform unimpeded while out of the dock then the battery would only last half the already quite unimpressive time of 3 hours. And let's not forget what kind of problems overheating would cause. Samsung Galaxy Edge 7 would seem like a joke compared to the incidents that this would cause...

And like you said, let's forget about that external HDD, and that's also something commented on by the EuroGamer leaker (Laura Kate Dale aka a member of the team behind the website Let'sPlayVideoGames) and that actually seems VERY likely, since it would create a disparity between the home and on the go experience, because you can't transfer your hard disk files to your handheld either because of space restrictions or copy protection.

Although in my opinion, they could semi-fix that by using cloud gaming and tying games to accounts, so you could play off of a dedicated server instead of at home.

But for now, I'm just going to prepare myself for this weekend's HNF podcast (1800h your time) with a small bottle of Bacardi...

I'll find out what Nintendo has cooked up in January. My worry and stress about a video game system is over for now. Time to focus on more important things. Effectively only 1,5 months left to earn some cash. Christmas is killing in my profession, so the second half of December will probably mean almost no prospects available/reachable, so I'll have to take that into account.

@cfgk24 24 I don't think it's going to function as a traditional tablet. That would require it to have a full operating system, like Android or ios, which can be costly to develop and can steal resources needed for gaming.

As a proud Nintendo fan, I wish Nintendo gamers didn't complain so much. They seem to love complaining about what they don't have. Nintendo gives them gimmicks, they want simplicity. Nintendo gives them simplicity, they want gimmicks. And, it annoys me to think that, when it comes to speculation, what wasn't in the trailer is getting more attention than what was. I guess we're just used to attaching ourselves to rumors.

My impressions with the Switch: I like what I see so far. I do have questions that I hope will be answered in January.

@CircuitWrangler3 comment #148 Well said. I wish more people would see it that way.

@jimi The Wiiu's gamepad was designed with too many locked-in functions, which became an obtrusive issue when developers wanted to do something simple. Its controller's integrated feature set, though useful when intuitive, brought more issues than benefits, in the long run. Is that what you want for the Switch? I would imagine not.

@ThanosReXXX Thanks, I know.

@ThanosReXXX "USB-C in and of itself tells us nothing, since there is also some other mechanic inside the dock that both shuts down the display (a function that could not be appointed to the USB-C connector)"

Maybe I'm missing something but it's trivial for a device to know when a connection to a port has changed and the identity of the device hooking up to it could be sent along the signal as well. So, all the Switch has to do is discover that the device is the dock and wait until it is detached from the port and then do whatever it needs to once the connection is severed.

@rjejr Either way, a USB-C port is a nice solution because you can charge and transmit data over the same port. It's possible the dock has an ethernet jack and that can connect through USB-C as well, or it might perform other simple functions, so I don't think it proves external storage.

It seems a bit more clunky, but I know I'd prefer to have the complexity of a hard drive to dump all my games/saves to.

@rjejr I think there will be other form factors but this is the only one that matters in terms of success/failure. This is the bet Nintendo is making and the only one we can count on for 2017 I'm guessing.

Edit: I came in late in that conversation, and now that I go back... I don't think I'm adding much or that I'm even on topic with what you were discussing! Whoops!

@aaronsullivan Don't worry about being late, I blame Nintendo for it's "Here's the Switch, now come back in 2 1/2 months and we'll tell you what you are looking at." That makes no sense. The delay to October made some sense on my 6 month marketing timeline, but you can't just tell people "Now go away and come back next year". Sony, after what seems like a dozen live presentations this year, is having another in early Dec, PSX, but Nintendo wants to wait until January for a March launch? 3:37 was a nice introduction, but they need to keep at it, at least answer questions every week. Pokémon S&M is going to sell great in November, not b/c they showed a trailer then shut up for 3 months, but b/c they keep at it.

I'm OK w/ a live event in January, but not going away until then, basic questions about storage and battery life and ports - Ethernet, optical - should be addressed. And name the games. Don't have to show every one, but name them - Pikmin 4, 3D Mario, anything else worth mentioning.

I'm trying to lay low for awhile myself, enough w/ the guesswork.

@ThanosReXXX "both to keep it from overheating"

I think it's funny that Nintendo built a toaster to hold the tablet to keep it from overheating while it overclocks.

If they were worried about overheating shouldn't the dock look more like the AMD Discovery dock or Wikipad so heat could radiate out of the front? More of a football goalpost, less of a wall.

@aaronsullivan "Maybe I'm missing something.. "

What you're missing is the nuance in what I said. I said that USB-C in and of itself tells us nothing, and that is 100% true.

You can have such a connector hook up to either a dock or a cable, but that doesn't mean that it is going to have some extra function to shut of your screen, so there's something extra in the dock to signal the Switch to turn off the screen AND to go into overclock mode. A USB-C connector can be used primarily for power connection, display purposes and a limited form of communication, but not to such an extent that you could add all these functions as a standard option.

So, there's either a Nintendo-specific protocol added to the device, or this is not a standard USB-C port OR there's an additional mechanic/switch in the... Switch...

@rjejr Probably to protect the screen that you so badly want to see displayed when it is in there...
There are big vents on top of the dock to provide for that active cooling, so it'll be just fine. And those AMD concepts look awful. I've seen them before, and they are even bulkier than that weird Aikun Morphus device that we saw some time ago, when we were still confident that this could never be what Nintendo was so secretive about...

@ThanosReXXX "when we were still confident that this could never be what Nintendo was so secretive about..."

You were so confident, I was 50-50. Heck in August I was 80-20 hybrid but then the Nvidia stuff didn't look good and the DMP stuff did, so I walked it back to 50-50 from 82-20, so you did get me to move quite a bit.

______________________________________

"When I have I not been fighting? I think I told you about a month ago I was 80-20 hybrid, then about a week or 2 ago I said 50-50 and it's been 50-50 ever since."

_________________________________________

Oh, and since he let you down so much is it ok if I still keep calling that Ubi guy "guy"? You are probably calling him worse.

"Guillemot thinks in French and I speak French as well. If this thing was a hybrid or a handheld, then I'm almost sure that he wouldn't have used the word "machine". There are French words for device, mobile/handheld and system, so if he meant that, he probably would have thought about those and would have used the English equivalent of them. But he didn't, which to me is a hint that this is truly a dedicated home console, and one with something special built in..."

Ok, I really need to go now.

@rjejr Haven't given that Ubi guy a second thought anymore. During the reveal, or to be exact shortly after the reveal, I was of a mind to expose his @ss, but I decided to be the better man and not give him any additional attention, because that would probably only be in his favor. Unless he was also duped what with Nintendo hammering on the fact that Switch is first and foremost a home console.

And with the "we" I meant our little group in general, so you, me and the Captain, and maybe even aaronsullivan too, although I do believe that he was also a fan of the hybrid idea.

Guillemot certainly had me fooled, though or my French is worse than I think it is, and I can still make myself perfectly understandable in the language. Maybe he was also brainwashed by Nintendo into thinking this truly is a dedicated home console or maybe he was putting up smoke screens because of some deal they made with Nintendo, possibly concerning Beyond Good & Evil 2.

But now that the dust has settled and we're all but sure what the device is going to be, it's time to move on and see what it might be able to do.

I'm going for Tegra X2 aka Pascal, a rumor that is gaining more ground every day, and if Nintendo is smart, then they will at the VERY least have a chip in there that is based off of Pascal, so technically, that wouldn't exactly be an X2, but it would also not be the kind of has been chip that is the now almost 3 year old X1.

But to give you some idea of what it can do, I've got some videos for you. I know you don't like numbers, so videos will be the better option, and keep in mind that these videos are from the older Tegra K1 and X1 chipsets, so expect more from the Switch.

First off, we have a co-developed video from Nvidia and Epic Games, showing off some effects of Unreal Engine 4 on Nvidia's hardware:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY37w7wxLFE
Here's a closer look on that tech in an "environment test" showcasing the most important effects of the latest version of Unreal Engine (v4.7):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-ds7VWVIKE
And finally, here's a temple demo with most of the effects switched on. A bit taxing for the hardware as you will see, but it runs on Tegra X1 (demo is done with the Shield console):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcE8DHI1JJ8
And according to the guy that posted the vid, it's apparently only lagging in playback, but it ran smoothly in real time.

Now, for comparison, take into account that X2 is literally almost two times faster, and has almost double the amount of capabilities effects-wise and so on. Now, let's take a conservative guess and put the Switch in between those two chipsets performance-wise, and I think we really don't have a hell of a whole lot to worry about. I think @Captain_Gonru and @aaronsullivan will agree to that as well after having watched these videos...

And all that once again also gives more credence to those "third parties are genuinely enthusiastic this time" rumors...

@ThanosReXXX Want to read the worst ever article about whats in the Switch?

http://www.itechpost.com/articles/48438/20161031/nintendo-switch-news-handheld-console-hybrid-will-use-nvidias-pascal.htm

This one does a better job not being ridiculous.

http://wccftech.com/nintendo-switch-nvidia-tegra-pascal/

The problem w/ all of those videos is that they show what the hardware can do, not what it will do. Like Nintendo showcased that Zelda Wii U demo at E3, then made Breath of the Wild look like a cartoon. And we really dont' know what 3rd party support there will be. BG&E2 I'll accept as a Switch exclusive, but it could look like anything, 720p @ 30fps or 1080p @ 60fps, we just don't know.

I'm not getting my hopes up. Heck I'm trying not to even care, I'm just looking at 4k tvs in case I get a PS4 Pro in the next 3 weeks. I doubt we'll be hearing a lot about up-res 4k games on Switch for awhile, I'm guessing 720p handheld screen 1080p TV is really all they'll be shooting for the next 2 or 3 years. And if I do get the Slim b/c I'm not spending $400 on a console w/o a game, then I'll just worry about PS4 games for awhile. Switch, it is what it is.

@rjejr I was trying to steer clear of the numbers, but man: you are one stubborn NYC SOB... No offense...

Both Nintendo and Nvidia would have to bend over backwards twice and back to make games on the Switch perform worse or look simpler than on the original Nvidia Shield. What you're proposing would be the equivalent of using a bucket to drink a cup of coffee aka all that space and potential for power, tools and options and then not using it by simply making games looking on par with what? The Wii U?

Every sign is pointing to a custom chipset/SoC well above the capabilities of the X1, and those videos are both from Tegra K1 (the X1's predecessor) and the X1, which means that it was the maximum that these chips could do. Or at least the maximum coupled with a good frame rate so it would be usable in games.

And now we have this X2 or more likely: derivative of that chip also based on Pascal technology, and that would not be used? That's ridiculous, man.

Coming up short power-wise or needing to much optimization, as was the case with the Wii U can be a valid reason for having games look or perform the way they do, but you're not going to buy a racing car to never be able to push that pedal to the metal.

Switch may not be as powerful as the PS4, but for a mobile SoC, this is about as powerful as it gets, in this price range, and that is almost the equivalent of these non-mobile chips that are in the other two consoles, so it's actually quite comparable, if you look at it in the way that you should.

It's the same thing as in that "Switch has 4GB of RAM" article: you can't simply think "well, Switch doesn't have 8GB, so it's definitely a whole lot weaker" because it just doesn't work that way.

It's a mobile SoC, and it needs a whole lot less RAM for the Operating System, so what you have left after that is subtracted, is essentially more or less the same amount of RAM as the other two consoles, who need almost half of their amount of RAM for their OS's and media capabilities, so the difference is negligible.

And then there's the fact that you can't compare mobile and normal SoC's directly anyway.

Simple example: the PS4 and Xbox One CPU's have 8 cores, the Tegra X2 has many more cores, but it isn't about those numbers, because the cores inside the Tegra operate in an entirely different manner, so you can't just compare numbers.

But performance wise, just looking at that hardware and the prevalent rumors, then the most likely scenario is 720p in handheld mode, in either 30fps or 60fps depending on the game, and in docked mode, 1080p/60fps should be no trouble at all for the Nvidia hardware. Tegra X1 could do it, so that means that it is all but certain that a custom chip based on newer hardware will be able to do that as well, and probably with one arm tied behind its back and one eye covered with an eye patch...

And Breath of the Wild may not be your cup of tea as far as the art style is concerned, but those graphics including all the effects on display are a hell of a whole lot more complicated than that E3 2011 tech demo, which was done in Unreal engine 3.5, by the way...

And please don't get me started on 4K. It isn't a thing yet and it isn't going to be a thing. or at least a standard thing for at least the next 4 years to come, and you may quote me on that.

I looked up the worldwide numbers, and so far expectations are that by 2018, only around 28 to 30% of the ENTIRE worldwide population will own a 4K TV, and numbers are expected to grow by about 10 - 15% per year after that, so by the time 4K is the accepted standard, we're living in 2020.

And besides owning the 4K TV, you will also need the content to play on it. Not everyone wants to play games, so these people will be looking for UHD-Blurays or 4K media players, Netflix will probably still not be able to provide true 4K media thru their own service, seeing as their current content quality is still not quite on par with disc based or downloadable media. And then there is the question of the necessary infrastructure to provide for such high quality streams, and that is probably also something that we can easily attach the label "see you in 2020" to, because there are STILL a LOT of areas worldwide where there isn't even any decent internet to speak off.

But you go and wait for your 4K console and TV, I'll just wait for a console that is able to decently display 1080p/60fps on ALL it's games, contrary to the current Xbox One and PS4.

But in the end, it's all about the games, and far as I'm concerned, Nintendo is the only party that can bring that little additional part that can make their games so special.

If the power is there and they are going to use it, then a decent number of third parties will also bring their titles, and NOT in some watered down, Wii cartoon shape, but in their full glory, to the Switch and coupled with their own IP's, that will be the perfect combo.

So Switch is not "what it is" but will more likely be "where it's at", provided they can tick all those boxes in January and hold on to these third parties that have now sworn their allegiance to the order of Nintendo...

@ThanosReXXX "but for a mobile SoC, this is about as powerful as it gets, in this price range, and that is almost the equivalent of these non-mobile chips that are in the other two consoles, so it's actually quite comparable, if you look at it in the way that you should."

But couldn't the same be said - at that time - for the Vita? Wasn't the Vita a handheld that was almost as powerful as the then current Gen home consoles? But look how poorly that sold outside of Japan.

So regardless of what hardware is in the Switch, it still has to sell. I'm not exactly sure what happened to Vita, besides the high priced proprietary memory and losing Monster Hunter to Nintendo, but Switch isnt anything until it's something, and right now it's just a 3:37 trailer, no less, no more.

@rjejr Simple answer: the Vita didn't have Nvidia's support and connections, the Switch does. Marketing-wise that is a BIG difference, ESPECIALLY for the Western market. The Vita ran on a PowerVR chip, a SoC that was powerful in its own right, but still hardly a standard architecture, so you could also take an educated guess that it had the same issue as the Wii U, namely that it took too much time to optimize titles for it and the returns on investment simply didn't stack up in comparison.

If you can make games of the quality shown in those videos with the help of the latest game engines and with next to no effort in porting from PC, then that's a completely different ball game.

I was personally very disappointed at first when it wasn't AMD, both because I hate to be wrong (also since I seldomly am, so on those occasions that it does happen, it hurts even more) and I took into account AMD's bigger and more solid reputation in the console industry, but now I'm over all that, I'm done with the negativity again and want to look forward.

So I'm looking at the possibilities instead of throwing everything that it can't do or possibly isn't going to do out there. I don't think that's very useful or constructive in any way.

Western developers always wanted this, EXACTLY this from Nintendo: power and ease of development, and this chipset certainly offers the potential for both, so I can't imagine them not making use of that and instead going for some watered down, cartoony version of their franchises again. There's simply no logical reason for them to do so, and luckily, these developers don't have to go by Nintendo's quirky logic but can adhere to their own instead...

@Captain_Gonru I like the 4k UpSitch, when it comes out I'm planning on calling it the "toaster oven". Game 7 tomorrow, videogames will have to wait, you got your wish, and Fox got theirs.

I started playing Lego City U, just in time to appreciate the Gmaepad 2nd screen before Zelda U and Switch do away with it.

@KidRad "lol WHAT games do you speak of? The lame unintrresting boring basketball Sim? The two unexciting wii u ports that people have already played? The fake 5 second Mario tech demo and unannounced skyrim quickie?"

Hmm, interesting; you seem to be reveling in your supposed disapproval of the switch presentation. Serious question, did you want the presentation to fail? What's your deal? I was trying to open your eyes a little. I don't know what people want from Nintendo, but the company isn't going to fully recover overnight. It's going to be a process, and I would say that they are off to a good start.

Boring basketball Sim? You mean the likely popular one that looked good on the Switch, with fluid frame rates? Two wii u ports that people have already played? I don't remember being able to use two items in MK8, and we saw new animations, hairstyles, outfits, and a new level in the Splatoon presentation. Not to mention that I don't recall anyone being able to play either of those games on a train ride. A fake 5 second Mario tech demo? Who said it was a tech demo? An unannounced skyrim quickie? Better than no Skyrim. Now, allow me to have the last laugh at your feeble attempt to insult me. 😁

@Captain_Gonru Agreed on Sony's ridiculous proprietary format memory cards, or sticks...

As for a graphical/power update for the Switch: technically, it's certainly possible, and they wouldn't even have to fake the effect: if they can make a dock 2.0 with an extra graphics card inside that cooperates with the inserted tablet like two graphics cards in SLI configuration, then it would actually be quite easy to squeeze 4K graphics out of it.

Older games would indeed be upscaled, but like with the new versions of the other consoles, all newer games could have native 4K support and/or additional features.

And remember: those now 100% correct EuroGamer leakers have also said that the SCD is a real thing, so that is also still coming. That could either be some device that connects to the dock, or maybe it could come in the form of a base that you click the dock in, much like the GameCube's Game Boy Player. Maybe we'll learn more in January, although I'm not expecting to hear anything about it: just info on the current model and more news on games.

As far as the 4K TV is concerned, I think that the industry predictions are correct and will hold up, so no significant growth of the worldwide number of 4K TV's sold until well into 2020, and maybe even later, so it's a LONG way off from being the standard format.

The point is also not that their price is almost as low as "normal" HD TV's, the point is that most people won't buy a new TV just because.

If their TV still works to their satisfaction and there are no issues with it, why the hell would you want to buy a new one? Especially if there is hardly any 4K content to speak of, except for in games and in downloadable media or UHD-Blurays?

I'm also one of those people: I have a 3 year old Panasonic Viera Full HD plasma screen that still works perfectly, so I have no reason whatsoever to buy a new TV.

The only thing that kind of annoys me, is that there's a channel logo in the top left corner of the screen that's burnt in, because it's the channel I watch the most, so there's now a small blue ghosted image imprinted into the screen, but you only see it when there's a lot of white on the screen, so it's only a minor annoyance and certainly not enough for me to empty my wallet for a new TV...

@Captain_Gonru Well, then we agree on everything, and like I said: that power issue could be solved relatively easily by upgrading the dock or providing the SCD add-on, and for now, I also believe that these are the options that Nintendo is considering.

As for the current horse power of the Switch, that might not be half as bad as some people seem to think. Here are some interesting tweets from the developers of SteamWorld Heist & SteamWorld Dig:
https://twitter.com/ImageForm/status/792414516806123524
https://twitter.com/ImageForm/status/793482754767945728
@rjejr might find these an interesting read as well...

@Captain_Gonru @ThanosReXXX @aaronsullivan

Just ordered my PS4 Slim Uncharted 4 bundle on Target.com. No Pro or 4k tv for me, $218 + tax (even crazy high NY tax) was too good of an offer compared to the $399 Pro. So no Switch until at least Christmas 2017, but probably longer if it's chuck full o' ports. That's why I waited 3 years for PS4, that was chock full o' ports at launch as well, but FFXV, R&C and U4 this year was finally enough incentive. So now I get to avoid all the PS4 Pro hype and Switch hype and enjoy some games for awhile, nice change of pace. Well at least I will after Christmas, Lego City Undercover and Bayonetta 2 until then.

@rjejr Erm... Happy gaming then?
(that's about as much as you're going to get from an avid Sony hater)

@ThanosReXXX Well considering you still haven't bought a Wii U either...

@Captain_Gonru "all the Dragon Quest love PS4 got"

Yeah, I forgot my kid wants Builder and the 2 Hero games. I wanted Heroes until I found out it was only single player, not sure about 2, but they all look like fun.

@rjejr That's just a money/priority issue. The plan was always to buy a Wii U and an Xbox One, but life got in the way, and so did the slower than expected income generation from my company...

@Captain_Gonru I like some of their games, but not nearly enough to buy a device of a company that I truly detest. I used to buy a lot of their devices, but they screwed me over multiple times with repair and warranty issues and to top it all off, they killed off Lik-sang, my favorite import site for everything game related, making my last order that was still in progress null and void, but because of the legal procedures that Sony had started against them, I never got my refund, so I lost hundreds of dollars, and a couple of very special items (limited edition GameCube controllers, books and statuettes and such) in the process.

@Captain_Gonru I only swear by U2, its the greatest movie I've ever played. It would be my favorite game of all time if it were a game, but it's an interactive movie, but it's the best. U1 sucked, U3 was half as good as 2, the 2nd half, but it had a first half I didn't like.

U1 is DCLoT
U2 is Arrow
U3 is Flash

@rjejr Hey, no bashing The Flash, that's a pretty decent show!

@Captain_Gonru @rjejr Sad times have come. Happy Nintendo Fan has removed both his Twitter and YouTube page because apparently, he's constantly being harassed by idiots who can't stand him still being around after he was so wrong about what Nintendo has revealed.

It even made him cancel the weekly Saturday night podcast that he was still doing with that friend of mine, so those are done as well.

The internet at its finest once again. Some of these lovely individuals really need some serious @ss kicking. I'll be in front of the line of volunteers. I'll probably use some ironclad fists and a baseball bat as well. Disgusting idiots...

To end on a positive note: I've sent you guys the four part developer interview by GamerSplash some time ago, and now, they've added the fifth part to it, with some interesting things being mentioned, making the more detailed reveal of the Switch in January an event that's certainly a lot more exciting to look forward to. Have a look at it and decide for yourself if it's worth getting that hype train back in motion again:
https://gamersplash.com/2016/10/31/nintendo-switch-will-feature-download-play-and-more-developer-interview-part-5

@Captain_Gonru @rjejr Wow, do I feel stupid right now: HNF told me he was just kidding. He had some technical issues and was doing some maintenance on his accounts.

It is true that he gets a lot of negative responses, some of them really hateful, but he just laughs it off because he knows there are more important things to worry about than a guy on the internet being wrong about a video console...

I still want to beat up the idiots, though...

@ThanosReXXX "I still want to beat up the idiots, though.."

But I think you just want to beat them up b/c they were right and you were wrong.

I'm not watching any more youtube videos on Switch, I'm dedicating my life to the Suicide Girls. There are like 5,000 of them each w/ their own FB and twtter accounts. You'ld think I'd get tired of that much skin, but not really.

@rjejr No, not really. I'm just one of those people that still had a decent upbringing and doesn't feel the need to relentlessly bash people online to feel better about myself or worse: just to troll and feed off of other people's misery. And I love stomping ignorant or anti-social people out. They are a detriment to the planet in general, and should probably be sent on the next ship to either the moon or a deserted island.

I'm already WAY past the whole "I got duped by my source and I was dead wrong" thing, since I possess an above average intellect and know when it's time to move on, ESPECIALLY when it only concerns a friggin' hobby.

And suicide girls? Really? Well, I guess there's no accounting for taste, but personally, I absolutely don't think women with an over-abundance of tattoos and piercings are attractive at all. Don't like the gothic look either. All of it degrades their natural look.

I couldn't get excited by that if they forced me too. Give me Eastern European or Asian girls any day of the week. And please also hold the silicone. That's really not done anymore. That's just 90's faux-pr0n style and needs to stay in that decade...