Well, E3 2016 is over. Done. Finished. It was a show that - broadly speaking - didn't seem to set the world alight, but it also had some strong moments. Nintendo can probably look back at its week with some satisfaction, too. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild not only dominated social media, but was critically acclaimed and lauded by pretty much everyone who played it. Our team was similarly blown away, with all three of our Hands On impressions pieces reflecting awe in varied ways. Nintendo's booth, the Legend of Zelda 'experience', was also very well received.
For my part, covering E3 (as always) in front of a PC monitor in the UK, I was pleased with Nintendo's efforts. The brief appearance early on with the YouTube Gaming Show to promote four Nindie games was a nice way to kick off. It was also a relief to see the positivity among the Nintendo Life community, from live chat during the Treehouse streams that were full of jokes and daft comments about shirtless Link, down to polls that reflected satisfaction with Nintendo's efforts. It's also easy to see, after diligently watching all of the day one Treehouse demonstrations of Breath of the Wild, why it's already so revered. It looks stunning not only in terms of its ambition, but also in its competence. By that I mean it's both talking the talk and walking the walk, creating an open-world with impressive freedom but evidently having the systems and coding magic to make it work in practical terms.
Nintendo also had a good day two, I thought, especially in light of the fact that for a good while it didn't look like there'd be a day two. Whether its initial one-day plan was a bluff or Nintendo of America was panicked by online criticism it was wise to deliver a second full day that looked at other games. Ever Oasis and Mario Party Star Rush both looked promising in their own different ways, and beyond that we saw a decent slate of games and had a few other small but pleasant surprises. One of the biggest winners on the second day, for me, was Paper Mario: Color Splash. Oddly the Treehouse team showed early and rather dull stages, before unleashing a trailer that demonstrated plenty of creativity and cool ideas. I noticed many in the live chat warm to it in that moment, and I'm hopeful it'll be a fun Wii U game to get us through the Holiday season.
I want to give praise to the Treehouse team, too, who I think did a decent job under tough circumstances. It seems the team was a fair bit smaller than in the last two years (based on the farewell gathering at the end), which was clear a few times when sound levels and other technical areas suffered. Yet they persevered and provided some fantastic demonstrations, with their expertise and - more importantly - enthusiasm shining through. I feel the Treehouse team gets harshly criticised on occasion, so wanted to take the chance to doff my hat to their E3 efforts.
Overall I'd tend to agree with many that voted in our polls - Nintendo had a solid E3. Granted, even on day two Breath of the Wild was still the talk of social media, arguably to the detriment of other games grasping for air, but whatever the case the company earned a lot of positive publicity and social media buzz. As a fan and as someone who earns a living writing about the company, I'd say E3 was a success.
But...
In all of the gushing about Breath of the Wild, and the positivity about Nintendo making a success of its E3, I think a bit of broader context is needed. E3 went well and avoided disaster, and also steered clear of the tough negativity that a few reveals generated in 2015, but it did little to address some troubling current realities for Nintendo.
The issue is that, away from Legend of Zelda hype and the Nintendo bubble, the company was increasingly isolated at E3. The oddest moment was when Ubisoft 100% confirmed, in big letters on a giant screen (and in subsequent press releases), Just Dance 2017 for the Nintendo NX. On the one hand that's a good thing, but on the other it makes the absence of NX as a platform in every other Ubisoft game announcement a concern. No other third-party publisher included NX in its announcements either, so either Ubisoft confirmed an NX version without approval or it's the only game it's confident to announce for the hardware.
Elsewhere in the few comments made about NX we heard predictable noises - it's a new way to play games (whatever that means, but it's exciting in principle), and Reggie Fils-Aime also played down the graphical arms-race going on between Sony and Microsoft. He essentially said that's up to them, but Nintendo is all about 'the experience'. With respect to Fils-Aime, and even acknowledging the fact he's limited in what he can say, they're soundbites off a broken record.
I've written in the past about the strange place Nintendo finds itself in. It's not competing on the raw graphical power front, so it doesn't appeal directly to the audience that wants lots of blockbuster goodness. So Nintendo has to target the broader 'blue ocean', and re-capture the magic of the Wii and DS. It needs to win over a diverse group of gamers and secure a place as the 'second console' with the aforementioned blockbuster crowd. Ubisoft believes it can be done, but frankly that's a company that backs everything on day one and quickly steps away if launch sales aren't substantial.
But in Ubisoft confirming one game but no others, and with no-one else talking about it or merely making non-committal noises prior to E3, it doesn't scream of momentum for a system due out in 7-8 months. We know the NX is a system playable at home in some form - because of Just Dance, Breath of the Wild and simple logic - but there's not much vocal support outside that Nintendo bubble. Think of all the major announcements and big games shown off during E3 outside of Nintendo's booth and broadcasts, and then remember than none of them are confirmed for Nintendo hardware. In fact, there weren't even hints of Nintendo versions.
I'm trying, until Nintendo finally unveils the NX, to remain optimistic. I hope the Just Dance 2017 announcement was just Ubisoft being rather strange, and that when Nintendo announces the system we'll hear of major third-parties jumping on board with enthusiasm, bringing some of their biggest games to the table. A nagging instinct, however, tells me that won't happen. I have little doubt that Nintendo will have learned lessons from Wii U and even the 3DS launch and come out with a deep first- and second-party line-up for the console's first year. I also hope the likes of Bandai Namco, Capcom, SEGA and other relatively supportive studios will have projects in the works, some of which have been in the rumour mill for months.
The potential challenge, if Nintendo isn't butting in on Sony / Microsoft territory in the big-selling, blockbuster 'triple-A' market, is striking gold with the NX concept. That, right there, is why there are nerves contending with my excitement and optimism. The Wii and DS were dominant a generation ago, and the 3DS has done well to make a success of itself, even if momentum is now falling away. Yet contrasting those successes are failures, and now the Wii U looks on course - by Nintendo's own projections - to be the worst selling home console in the company's history.
The big N is consistently successful in portables but has had to fight extremely hard to turn the 3DS into a success, albeit one lagging behind its predecessors. Yet the company's boom and bust tendencies in home consoles bring plenty of risk. Even in 'losing' this generation so far with Xbox One Microsoft still gets a lot of third-party support, because of where it sits in the market along with Sony. Nintendo is in its own space, and it seems to either triumph and set the world alight or lose badly - the Wii to Wii U effect.
A number of enticing, extravagant games were shown during E3, and as is now the norm Nintendo was only in the conversation with the outstanding game it made itself. My only fear is that the potential success or failure of NX feels too much like the flip of a coin, a reliance on hitting upon trends and capturing the zeitgeist.
The focus on innovation and the 'experience' over solid technology that earns the support of major partners is exciting, yes. But it's also a little terrifying.
Comments 186
Nintendo won E3 for me when they announced THIS BEAUTY!
I agree, Ubisoft and Reggie's comments are the most concerning about the NX.
Glad to see an article talking about this topic; I'll put it bluntly - if the NX bombs, Nintendo are screwed in the home console market. With console sales going down from generation to generation (excluding the Wii), Nintendo need to do something, and quick, to turn things around.
My hope is that the NX tries to remain somewhat "normal", whilst also adding it's own unique twists (amiibo support, for example) to set it aside from the competition without making it too hard to develop for. If it ends up being too difficult for third parties to develop for, we'll end with no games and it'll die even quicker than the Wii U. Though, I honest doubt that will happen.
E3 did a great job at keeping me happy for the remainder of the year, yet, all it did, was leave me more uncertain for the start of next year? If we look at when Paper Mario Color Splash launches (using the North American release date), and when Breath of the Wild launches, there's a 5 month gap.
We aren't seriously gonna have a five month gap in games, are we?
It was a grave sign to only see one game announced for Nintendo's next console (perhaps two if you count Zelda). We have less than a year until release so that sends shivers up my spine (in good way and in a bad way based on lack of support). Before the PS4 and XB1 released E3 was dominated by them. There is already love for Zelda so there was no reason to sell the game so much unless they are hoping to clear out the last of the Wii U systems before the NX releases. NX is what they must sell because even hardcoe Nintendo fans are struggling to get on board (not me - day 1 purchase with or without games... I survived Wii U)
Nintendo did a great job this year, even moreso because many people were expecting a more barren showing. While I'm not comparing BotW to skyrim (open world doesn't make two games the same or even influenced by each other), I am reminded of the year Skyrim was announced. No one cared about anything else Bethesda had (and they really didn't have much else); same as the year that Fallout 4 was announced...they had a few extra games but all anybody cared about was their next main franchise. I think Nintendo succeeded in creating the same type of show.
Honestly I had to go back and look at the other live streams to catch up on what else Nintendo brought with them because my focus has been on BotW. Admittedly I am a Zelda fangirl(fanwoman?), but all the social media response shows how strong of a grip that game has on gamer mindshare. It doesn't ease concerns for those that are worried about NX, but for me I would say it takes a solid swing at them. A game this big and this hyped and you can only get it on Nintendo systems? That is going to move some units...and I hope Nintendo continues the hype via marketing now that they have turned some heads. Marketing follow through will make or break potential sales.
As much as I loved the Wii Remote and everything it stood for, I am concerned about the direction Nintendo wants to go with the NX if it is based on another control scheme that supposedly will define it. The Wii U Gamepad is by far my least favorite controller because of how useless I believe it has been. Splatoon is the one game I could truly use it on and even then it had a normal control scheme in local play that could play it.
"The oddest moment was when Ubisoft 100% confirmed, in big letters on a giant screen (and in subsequent press releases), Just Dance 2017 for the Nintendo NX."
Dont worry, they will add a 10% platin points discount and 5 Tshirts (well, 5 different colors) on Miitomo along with it. It will boost Nintendos trend to the top. The promo will be called D.O.A.
I agree. If Nintendo goes for the casual market again by introducing some crappy gimmick like with the Wii and Wii U (thus resulting in less third party support), they are pretty much screwed in the home console business.
I freaking love Nintendo but I won't buy the NX if it's another Wii U situation and I'm pretty sure a lot of people here won't either.
Nintendo could get a boost when they finally decide to bring JRPG's to the console. Especially when they listen to their fans and bring the real Pokémon games to the console. However I am afraid that Nintendo will keep on going their own way whithout listening to what gamers want.
It was missing something like pokemon gen 2 on 3ds vc
Admittedly we didn't get COD, Battlefield, Watchdogs, or Facey McShooty the generic killing game, but:
A: Do most Nintendo fans want these games?
B: If fans of these games can buy these games in September, why wait for 6 months to play it on a new system? This is what happened with the Wii U launch.
C: Aren't we rumoured to be getting Beyond Good and Evil 2, FF7,and Dragon Quest? These are 'Nintendoesque' games.
I'm not worried about the NX. It's going to have at least 4 key Wii U games, Pikmin 4, a Retro game, and a fair bit of Japanese support early on, and then with a fair install base the 3rd party Facey McShooty's announced at next E3 can come out AT THE SAME TIME as the versions on the PS4 and XB1.
"and I'm hopeful it'll be a fun Wii U game to get us through the Holiday season."
Not just the holiday season, summer, autumn, holiday, winter. 9 months 1 game. That's what Paper Mario is. And we've been waiting for Zelda for 2 years now and the best they can give us is 2017. Nobody - but nobody - ever said March for Zelda U at E3, so we really don't know how long Paper Mario has to carry Wii U for. Which is probably why Ntineod projected only 800,000 sales over 12 months.
After seeing all the 3DS games at E3 probably the smart thing for Ntinedo to do would be to make NX backwards compatible w/ the 3DS library. If people really wanted SSB and MK they would have bought a Wii U, but only 13.5 million people did. People want Pokemon and Monster Hunter and bought 50 million 3DS to get them. But only after it dropped in price from $249 to $169, a price cut right off the bat. It shows that people do want Ntinedo hardware, but only at a lower price.
I'm not saying NX should only be as powerful as 3DS, you can make it as powerful as an X1 and still keep it cheaper than Wii U is right now b/c Nintneod won't add a blu-ray drive for movie support. $199 home console w/ a 3DS cartridge slot w/ Pikmin 4, Luig's Mansion 3 and Zelda:BotW in the launch window. New look, new name, no Gamepad, no "asymmetrical" gameplay. The entire 3DS library on a big screen tv.
@buildz You're assuming Zelda is an NX launch title. Yet they're quite secretive about its release date and March hasn't been confirmed at all; It was even pulled down from the press release.
I, rather optimistically, think that Nintendo is just keeping everything under wraps, and didn't care about Just Dance enough to tell Ubisoft to stay quiet (Ubisoft basically said "It's coming to everything it could possibly come to!" anyway). Until they show the launch line-up without it, I'll remain cautiously optimistic about 3rd party support (though, truth be told, the vast majority of games I buy are from Nintendo and indies).
I'm not really worried about the power of the NX. It's pretty much guaranteed that it won't be as strong as the Scorpio, but it really doesn't need to be. The Scorpio will be an expensive system (some suggest more than $600) for playing Xbox One games at higher settings. Microsoft themselves said that games will still be playable on the original Xbox One, which means they should have no problem running on the NX. As long as the NX hits 1080p (4K is extremely overrated anyway), I'll be happy.
Jeez Thom, that spin really bursts my bubble How about, Ubisoft confident that the NX will recapture Wii audience. Just Dance announcement lets slip they are on board. Now...where is my Red Steel 3? Quit bringing me down NLife and leave the anxiety to the forums
I have been a Nintendo fanboy since I was five, I am now 32. The only other console I ever owned was a PS2 and that was solely for FFX and MMX series as well as some random other titles that came out like GTA. I even sold the PS2 midway through its life because I decided supporting two consoles was too costly. I have bought nearly every first party game for the GameCube, GBA, DS, Wii, 3DS, Wii U. Day one; thousands of dollars. I have supported Nintendo through thick and thin and tried to believe they would turn things around for the best and bring in the support they need to not hold themselves up. They have done a fine job keeping themselves alive, but like any army... War is not won by one soldier. They are not that one-man army against all foes; they are not that hero.
Suffice to say this article pretty much hits every note and thought I have this generation. Never before this have I considered so strongly about going elsewhere. Sony and their new PlayStation show impressed me, and their new games look like different experiences. Fun experiences. Nintendo also did very good in their show and the new games also look fun. I will more than likely get all the new games Nintendo pushes out like Zelda, Ever Oasis, Paper Mario Color Splash, #FE, Mario Party, Ect. What I'm skeptical about, like the author, is the NX. Nintendo has done a poor, poor job about informing their fans. They have shook the foundation, so to speak... And if the foundations are destroyed, what can one do? Maybe they seek to rebuild from the ground up with a new generation? Maybe they want to hit the reset button? It looks like they are doing it with Zelda and sounds like they plan to do it with Mario. Maybe that is their move? Start over.
I will wait to see what their NX will be before jumping aboard the Nintendo ship again, however. It is tough to remain a fanboy when everything you thought you knew about a company or everything you think a company will do is changing. I hope it works out for the best.
If the Ubisoft statements pan out and the NX is indeed a console built to target lapsed Wii gamers, then that would be a shame for an amazing game like Breath of the Wild, which caters to a much more hardcore audience, an audience that would not find the NX appealing if the NX was built with Wii gamers in mind.
Nintendo didn't do a solid job at E3. Other than Zelda: BOTW they had a terrible show. I think because that game was so incredible people have rose tinted glasses on at the moment. Anyway, that's my opinion.
And Reggie's comments has me shaking my head in disbelief. I'm getting a major sense of deja vu of what happened with Wii U.
Reggie in July 2013 talking about Wii U's power compared to the competition: "The processing power of the hardware really doesn't matter."
Reggie in June 2016 talking about NX's power compared to the competition: "For us it's not about specs."
The NX will either make or break my trust in Nintendo. I get it. They want to be different, but sometimes it feels like they are different just for the sake of being different rather than enhancing the experience. All I want from Nintendo is a powerful, simple console, with 3rd Pary Support, solid online, and for them to use all of their current IP's, while at the same time making new ones. That's just me though
I sincerely doubt they will get third party support regardless of what they do. People just don't want those games on a Nintendo home console. As a result of the lack of software sales, Nintendo will to continue to fail to have sustained third party support. It's that simple.
Trying to compete with Sony, and to a lesser extent Microsoft, is suicide at this point. They know they're not getting sustained third party support, so it makes far more sense to find a survivable niche with a cheaper console. In other words, a $200-250 Nintendo console with no third party support > a $400-500 Nintendo console with no third party support.
@IceClimbers This is what I feel as well. Nintendo has always lacked support for there home consoles even back in the N64 days and arguably back in the SNES days when compared to Sega. While I do want the console to be passible in specs, it doesn't need to compete with Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo should try to advertise themselves as something different, much like why they called their modified Famicon the NES during the game crash in America, they wanted it to be known as an entertainment console rather than a gaming console.
@rjejr Uh...dude MK8 was the third best-selling console Mario Kart of all-time not including sales on VC. It's sold over 8.8 million units which is more than Double Dash and WAY more than 64 managed to sell on their respective consoles which both sold what? Nearly double the number of consoles as the Wii U? So it did sell consoles.
I'm shocked Nintendo even showed up to be honest. Having the playable demo space looked amazing but those treehouse videos were PAINFUL! The games they did cover were overexposed by the end. In my mind I'm wondering why they wouldn't just realease all their new trailers strategically online at specific times to keep the interest on Nintendo more spread out ans consistent. Plus you could really stick it to your opponents if say at the same time as the EA confrence you launched your Zelda trailer. To me that's genius. Nintendo is desperate and having so little to offer for the next 12 months on an already very sparse 12 months reminds me of Sega's autumn years on the Saturn. Plus if by the time the NX xomes out with it's "xbox one power" they'll still be inderpowered by the new xbox and ps4 models. Please stop with the hardware Nintendo, you've lost and now look desperate and sad. Refocus on just making those magical timeless games you were once known for.
@Yorumi Capcom confirmed that MH3U only came to Wii U because of online multiplayer. When they were able to integrate online multiplayer into later 3DS games they had no interest in bringing Monster Hunter back to home consoles.
@Yorumi I kinda with you. Nintendo needs to build up an audience of real gamers, and not just people who see them as time killers. Nintendo lost that audience back in the Wii days. Hopefully they return to that, but considering Reggie's comments, they might just be acting like Nintendo again.
@MrGawain: You make a great point about whether Nintendo fans want those games.
I do not think there is a Nintendo fan here who would not buy the NX if, regardless of third party support, Nintendo released a sold stable of its First Party IPs: LoZ, Super Mario Bros., F-ZERO, Splatoon 2, DK Country, Mario Kart 9, etc. And I think it's pretty clear that Nintendo would rather design consoles with the gaming experience in mind than UbiSoft, EA and other third party producers and the hardware specs their games demand. This likely means the NX + Xbox or PlayStation for those of us that crave mature blockbuster titles. That's the reality, and I'm good with that.
My God nintendo life WE All knew that whatever console Nintendo brought to market weather Amazing (sells) or (Not Wii u) 3rd party's would not support it and if they did at start they'd soon drop then or just give us late ports.So Nintendo is to blame but come on developer's are even more so.After all the Nintendo fan needs to be treated as gamers to and We also have to do are part.So I think Nintendo kowns this and hopefully planed the best they can for it.One things for sure I DONT trust 3rd party
@andrew20 Yes. I 100% agree.
General Topic: This is also my concern as well. Even if Nintendo doesn't have an NX gimmick, the Wii U route has proven disastrous for them. If they want content, they should make a console on par with the PS4 and Xbox One so they get third party games. Combine those with their outstanding exclusives, and the NX would very well put Nintendo on top. Unfortunately... that's probably not going to happen. 😔
With the NX I think that Apple and Android are the real competition, not Sony and Microsoft. It is the IPhone and IPad that have stolen Nintendo's market, not the PS4. Wii and DS both thrived on the casual gaming crowd. That crowd is now playing games on tablets and phones. Nintendo's strategy with NX will be to win back a significant portion of that crowd while also keeping their core fans happy.
I think Nintendo needs to focus on getting a new audience. Try dragging in Xbox, and Playstation fans. Sony did that and looked what happened.
It was amazing that Nintendo pretty much succeeded in having Zelda carry them through this E3 as I consider it a good showing show from them. Breath of the Wild really does just look that good!
The thing to remember in regards to announcements for the NX is that developers are usually reluctant to announce big titles for systems that have not even been officially announced yet. Certain titles don't matter in regards to this because they release on every single console no matter what, Just Dance being one of those games.
@Neko_Ichigofan MK Wii sold THIRTY FIVE million copies, thats 4x what MK8 sold. So even if only MK fans bought a Wii U to play MK8 that means Wii U should have sold 4x more units than it did.
You have it backwards, MK didn't sell Wii U, Wii U owners bought MK8 b/c there was nothing else to play on Wii U after they had already purchased one. MK8 has been bundled w/ Wii U for the past 2 years yet Wii U still isn't selling.
MK doesn't sell consoles, if it did, their would be AT LEAST 35 million Wii U sold, that's more than double, nearly triple, how many it has actually sold.
Wii U owners, who probably bought it for NSMBU, bought MK8.
I went into E3 with extraordinarily low expectations for Nintendo, but they managed to provide some excitement at least. Zelda looked awesome, as I expected it would, but aside from the expected Zelda Nintendo did a decent job of keeping my interest for 2 days. So they did better than expected they would but again I went in with piss poor expectations. I think they did better than last year though at the very least. But it does concern me too that we know NOTHING about NX and we're less than a year away. When NX was first mentioned I was somewhat confident that Nintendo have learned from their lessons with Wii U but the closer we get to NX's supposed release date and STILL knowing nothing about it, the more worried I get that NX will be nothing more than Wii U 2.0. Chances are I'll be buying it at some point regardless of what it is and how it does. But the cooler I think it is, the more groundbreaking it is, the more support it has, the sooner I will buy it.
I'd like to ask the question why Nintendo won't compete on raw power with the opposition? Nintendo is a very rich company. If they can afford it, why shouldn't they? If it's a guaranteed profit, surely it's smarter than gambling everything by going down the all or nothing road again.
With the statement that their console isn't going to be about specs, it makes it sound like it's still going to be underpowered to the Xbox One and PS4. Which makes me think that it's going to be another gimmicky mess.
@Yorumi Still being the voice of reason I see.
"aonuma is clearly putting his heart and soul into that game."
But he's taking out the Gamepad map. The same Gamepad map he himself put into WW HD and TP HD and showed off w/ Miyamoto at the Game Awards. He can keep his heart and soul, I want my Gamepad map back dagnabbit.
@rjejr For the record: I bought a Wii U for MK.
It's a really though spot for Nintendo (and one they dug themselves into) but if there is one company that can make miracles...I just don't want "breath of the wild" to be remembered as the last amazingly great Nintendo home console title or something sad like that ;_;
@rjejr Wait, there isn't a gamepad map in Zelda U? Da heck?
Although I can understand the sentiment in the article, and also agree with Reggie being a broken record with his "we aren't about power" statements, the rest of it is ruling from fear and baseless assumptions.
Reggie playing his broken record in this day and age is hardly a warning sign for weak hardware: you'd be hard pressed to make anything weaker than the original Xbox One even if you tried.
Besides that, I'd wager that quite a few of you people haven't even got the slightest clue what an NDA can contain and why, as such, it is entirely possible that amongst other things, that is the reason why so little is known and why no third parties have announced games yet.
Just imagine that they would have announced some games this E3 and tons of reporters would fire off questions which at any one time could potentially mean that in the midst of all the excitement and pressure of the show (after all, Nintendo's NDA ninja's can only be at so many places at a time), some lower echelon guy or woman from a developer let's down their guard and inadvertently let's something slip about the hardware. Think of the ramifications: the results could be really damaging.
Here are some more voices of reason to quell the panic in all the faint-hearted ones that like to give in to their despair already...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CbuAjNR6WA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOmCrkExpv0
And Ubisoft announcing Just Dance 2017 for the NX is even less of a warning sign: that game runs on just about anything with a chip in it. I wouldn't be surprised if they would announce a version for your microwave oven next...
But seriously: it is a very wide spread IP, and if they can run it on a tablet or on a Wii, it is pretty safe to say that whatever NX is, it can easily run a Just Dance game.
Regardless of how I or anyone else feels about Ubisoft (a bit of mixed feelings here myself) it is nothing but a standard statement that can be made without any potential danger of violating any NDA they are under.
Something even tells me that Ubisoft hasn't even got an NX dev kit but if they do, they will certainly not be only bringing their annoying dance game to it.
@Iceclimbers You make some good points as well. I agree that Nintendo is a different kind of beast and they shouldn't necessarily pursue the same audience as the other two, but it would be good if the NX will at least have the potential to offer a decent home to any third parties that are willing to put their games on it.
@Grumblevolcano @Yorumi Agreed on Monster Hunter. That game is a perfect fit for both home and handheld consoles and it suits Nintendo.
@rjejr Removed the map? Unless my eyes deceived me, I still saw plenty of map usage in the Treehouse Live sessions. It may be a bit different now, but it's still there.
Reggie's comments are the most alarming thing about Nintendo's E3 showing, enough to derail my excitement for Zelda. As much as I really do want that game, it is enormously frustrating to think Nintendo hasn't learned anything from the Wii U, and are again bent on putting out an underpowered system that they alone will support.
Can't even remotely imagine this console doing well if this is their design philosophy. Nintendo fans (at least fans that are willing to shell out another 200-400 dollars for a Nintendo-only console) are disappearing at a faster rate than ever, and another underpowered, different-for-the-sake-of-being-different console is just going to sever the last of the ties Nintendo has with its fans.
You can't flip off your fanbase over and over and expect them to keep running back to you. Eventually even the most devoted ones are going to catch on.
If I didn't have my PC which is cheaper for me in terms of gaming than buying a new console every few years. I would have a Xbox, or a PS4. But as it stands I'm not missing anything, except not having a Nintendo console.
While that isn't the view of the majority of people who game, it is a reality. Speaking for people who don't have a PC like a few of my friends, without kids, its a no-brainer for them get one of the two behemoth's in the market, they have better diversity of game genres then Nintendo will ever have this generation. Also playing while playing the same games on Sony and Xbox get old so does solely playing Nintendo characters.
Nintendo does really need to reconsider what they want from their next console, and how it will appeal to the market at large. I'm sure they'll lose some fans. Then again Nintendo never does anything just for the fans, they do it to be Nintendo, sometimes its a hit, and other times not.
I've never clung to Nintendo for anything breathtaking in terms of raw power, my PC does that fine. I've only clung to Nintendo for its fun experiences for my and my family and it hasn't disappointed .
They still should have shown something on the nx. Anything, the controller or something.
"An exclusion from the broader picture remains a worry"
That's exactly the problem I had with Nintendo's E3 this year. On its own? Two big games coming, namely Pokémon S&M and Breath Of The Wild, and the rest. A pretty normal E3, and a fitting one as both 3DS and WiiU are late in their respective timespans. The problem, however, is how desperate the WiiU situation is. The bigger picture. There's no such thing as console wars as the players are the ones supposed to win, but... yeah, considering the poor support the WiiU has gotten so far, I'd say we lost. Not me, personally - I have Mario (3D World, New U, Kart 8, Maker), I have Smash, I have Tropical Freeze. But anyone who bought the console for less Nintendo games, maybe one or two (there's no way anyone could buy the WiiU just for Mass Effect 3), lost. Unless the NX pulls another Wii miracle, I don't have much optimism left. I used to, but now there's not much left.
@FlaygletheBagel I'd like to invite you to watch the videos I posted in the comment above yours. They should be enough to ease your mind and enjoy the upcoming Zelda game once again.
And you might wanna take my two cents on the matter along with it...
Well, let's say this: Zelda seems to have comfortably won the battle of E3. The war on the other hand . . .
@AlexSora89 Make a song, might help cheer you up...
And, by the way, it's interesting to note that not only is the Wii U the worst selling Nintendo home console of all time . . . but the 3DS is also the worst selling Nintendo handheld of all time too (to date).
Ponder that little nugget for a moment. . . .
Note: Virtual Boy isn't really one or the other and just kinda floats in its own category, and all the Game & Watch units don't count as part of the main handheld line of consoles either.
Please don't let the NX launch be made up mostly of WiiU and other remasters of old games.
@Yorumi
I like costs. Never had a problem with that as long as it guarantees me great games like the N64 and Gamecube had. The Wii might have been more succesful, but the fact is the games was much better on N64 and Gamecube.
@Project_Dolphin
What's your take on Nintendo's consoles before the Wii? They were at least on par on raw power before and the games was much better on all of them compared to the Wii library.
I also had the same concerns regarding the Ubisoft announcement. If they've got the 'go ahead' to announce games for NX, then, surely they'd have announced all (or some of) their other NX projects - but they didn't.
Anyway - I fear the worst. All the signs are there to suggest that lessons have not been learnt. The Reggie comment shows they're still not ready to compete on hardware, and that it'll be an 'underpowered' machine. Doesn't matter to me - but if they want to win back the masses I think they'll have to try harder on that front.
I don't think Ninty CAN win back the casual crowd. I don't think major third parties even want to support them in any big way. EA have huge contracts with Microsoft, they have no interest in Nintendo.
I think Nintendo's best bet would be to make a home console (perhaps that portable hybrid) that has fairly good specs (Xbone/PS4 level is fine) - one that is as easy as can be to develop for. They should concentrate on their existing relationships with Capcom, Sega, Bandai, etc to get their games on board. They need exclusives from these companies.
Nintendo should also be investing more in buying studios. They need to invest more in indies...
But whatever happens - I'll always be on Nintendo's side. Other than Nintendo, today's gaming companies seem completely souless to me. Boring, in fact. I'll say that the Wii U hasn't lived up to my expectations, but I absolutely adore the 3DS. I still have faith in Nintendo.
Sorry for rambling on...
The NX silence means just one of two things to me: either it's going to be a great system and fab surprise when they announce it, or it's not got much going for it.
But if it's not got much going for it, why are they even bothering? I think they'd be better off dragging the Wii U along for another year or two than they would be releasing another underperforming (sales-wise) piece of hardware.
Common sense tells me it's going to be the home/portable combination we've been talking about all along, because it's got the best chance of succeeding.
@Project_Dolphin
"Nintendo would rather make a console like the Wii: a console that is supported by third-parties (and before someone complains about "shovelware", understand that many gamers bought that "shovelware", and third-party developers were able to achieve software sales success on the Wii) and is also primarily known for Nintendo software."
That's quite the utopia you're envisioning, but the reality is that the type of success Nintendo had with the Wii is near-impossible in today's market. 2017 will be a very different gaming environment than 2006. The Wii launched at a time where there were no smartphones, and thereby no real outlet for a casual audience to play games. Now casual gamers have fled and predominantly game on smartphones now, where it's normal to pay next to nothing for their games, where you can not only play games, but text, email, browse the internet, etc.
Do you really anticipate that this market, who is used to getting their games for 0-2 dollars at most, is going to, out of nowhere, shell out 200+ dollars for a dedicated game machine? That's a pipe dream if I've ever heard one, especially with Nintendo developing smartphone games now. If the average consumer can get Nintendo games on their smartphone for free, why bother paying hundreds for a console?
The casual market has moved on and Nintendo ought to know that. Just look at the Wii U, a device that was equipped to recapture that market. It had the Wii name, it worked with the Wii Remotes people already had, it had a big stupid tablet gimmick, and it was a lower price than its competing consoles. It sold pitifully (and not just because of poor marketing, although that didn't help). It's because they were chasing an audience that had already put their Wiis away in a closet years before the Wii U came out. They didn't care anymore.
So then, who is the NX's target audience? That is, if Reggie's/Nintendo's comments are indicative of it being yet another underpowered console shackled to a gimmick? It's not casual gamers for the aforementioned reasons. Is it hardcore gamers? Clearly it's not; it's become pretty clear after the Wii U that the majority of hardcore gamers are not interested in a low-spec console that only plays Nintendo games. Winning back the people Nintendo has lost to Microsoft and Sony would require a console that is competitive in specs, has a solid amount of third party support, and avoids hardware gimmicks. All things Nintendo's recent comments have directed us away from.
So if it's not targeting the casual audience, and it's not targeting the general hardcore gaming audience, yet again we're left with a console targeted at a dwindling hardcore Nintendo fanbase, and yet again Nintendo will have a hard time selling units, and yet again third parties will consider Nintendo's machine an afterthought. Your proposition of a utopia where Nintendo releases another low-spec, gimmick console and is still able to get ample first and third party support is practically impossible; I don't see any scenario where the NX could be successful in today's landscape, not if Reggie's remarks are foreshadowing anything.
@Yorumi @ThanosReXXX "Removed the map?"
This is the most flabbergasted I've been about anything I've read in a long while, so many conflicting reports.
So many websites said it wasn't there - though some are reporting what they read on other sites - and even the 3 looks at it here don't mention using the map on the Gamepad. Anouma did sound like he took it out though, b/c he said he would use the Gamepad if he fond something good to do with it.
No map -
http://kotaku.com/hands-on-with-the-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-1781969632
“Previously, when I was playing with Mr. Miyamoto, you might have seen that the map was on the GamePad screen,” Aonuma said, referring to a demo he did of the game two Decembers ago. “But after developing the game and playing the game we realized that having a smaller version of the map on screen is actually better so you know where you are at all times. So we decided to take it that route. Obviously if we find that there’s a great feature we could add to the GamePad, there is a possibility that we could do that.”
No screen usage at all -
http://venturebeat.com/2016/06/16/the-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-win-proves-that-nintendo-is-over-the-whole-dual-screens-thing/
"But one thing it’s not doing is using the Wii U’s second screen.
This might not sound like a huge surprise. We already know that Breath of the Wild is also coming to Nintendo’s next system, the code-named NX home console. We know nothing about it right now other than it’s coming in March 2017. Unless the NX is also going to have a tablet controller (which, considering how poorly the Wii U has performed, always seemed doubtful), it wouldn’t make a lot of sense for Nintendo to have gameplay elements in the new Zelda that require a second screen.
But it’s strange how the Wii U version doesn’t use the tablet screen at all. It did show the game’s controls. So it has the same functionality as the single page of an instruction manual."
I can't really find anyplace that does support it, just some people on here saying they thought it did.
@whodatninja IDK anymore, but see post above #65 to join me in dazed and confused land.
@vforvincent Now if you can convince another 20 million or so to do so, maybe the Wii U can have more than just Paper Mario and Just Dance this holiday.
I bought mine for the W101 demo. I got it the day after the ND when the W101 demo was available right after. I'm not sure how many Wii U the W101 game sold though either.
@rjejr Well, I've definitely seen it being used on some of the Treehouse sessions, but you'll excuse me if I'm not going to browse through 10 - 12 hours of video to find it.
I think it is taken out of context. I looked up what Aonuma actually said:
I'd say the keyword here is CAN be played, not SHOULD be played or can ONLY be played.
I'd put it down to the internet being up in arms again about everything Nintendo is "doing wrong again".
For crying out loud people, not even one day, ONE friggin' day after the whole world was aglow, amazed and even touched by the great new Zelda game, and we plunge right back into that dark pit of despair again.
I already refrained from commenting during the E3, because I saw so much negativity here, it was so sickening that I didn't want to have anything to do with it.
I'm truly beginning to have a MUCH better understanding for @BLPs' drinking habits...
@Aneira: My feeling is that Nintendo is that in designing consoles, Nintendo is always about gaming experience first. So they pour their energies into developing the Wiimote and the Gamepad and proprietary hardware/software infrastructures to support the innovation rather than the high-powered state of the art systems and engines that are more common and familiar to developers. I'm not defending this position, it's just how I see it.
@Kohaku Bringing Pokemon games to console is not up to Nintendo, it's up to Gamefreak ultimately and they have repeatedly stated that they don't want to. The main reasons likely being Pokemon is about socializing and engaging in it with your friends more than the competitive side of things, and especially in Japan that comes through much stronger with handhelds. Plus, development budgets for HD projects have got to be much bigger, so I'm sure they're worried about spending much more money on a project that may or may not succeed.
As for JRPGs, there's Xenoblade Chronicle X which released recently (though that has a Western feel to it, it's kind of a blend of the two styles) and Tokyo Mirage Sessions comes out in a week, which is very Persona-like in its style and gameplay. Beyond that, there are a few decent indie JRPGs and the Virtual Console has a lot of great classics.
If they aren't going to compete in the hardware race why bother making two different consoles? Nintendo clearly cannot support two systems at once anymore with rising development costs so why launch two consoles when you can just focus all your efforts on one. Since the Wii U didn't get any third party support we had months at a time with no releases. 3ds hasn't been all sunshine and rainbows of late (mostly jrpgs which I'm burned out on) so one console might be the way to go. We only really have one more generation of dedicated handhelds being relevant so why wait, start now with something unique. A home console with a controller that functions as essentially a wifi receiver you can take with you to play games over wifi?
I'll surely buy it. there's no way I'll pass the new marios and metroid and pikmin, etc
...but not at launch though, I'll wait to see its 3rd party support and then I'll decide if I buy it or get maself a ps4 neo. WiiU's droughts were too much for me
@rjejr Hm, guess I'm going to have to stand corrected...
Having looked up more articles it now does indeed seem they have removed it in favor of a mini map in the lower right corner of the screen to show your whereabouts at all times.
Pause button brings up the whole map to access and place way points.
He did leave the door open to still add some functionalities to the GamePad in the final development period, though:
@ThanosReXXX I appreciate youre comments. I like the folks here like you, Jax and of course my fellow golden oldie @rjejr
But to GET that, I have to basically make the comments bearable to damn well read. I was optimistic about PM:CS, and Zelda looks gooooorgeous to me, even had my PC gamer friends saying they want it, but even then I had to go through the live chat through trolls, endless high hopes that were never going to be resolved, that when I got to be snarky, or join in on the jokes, it was shortlived before I dive into a bottle to blind myself to the never ending negativity swirling around something I'm allowed to enjoy.
FFS humans, there are over 7 BILLION of you all running around on this miserable rock and the day you all learn that people can like what they want to like because funnily enough it damn well doesn't affect your sorry ass that hunts for something to be offended by, I will probably put this bottle down. Right now Ive got a good idea of where I should be sticking it, since a lot of people like having a stick up where the stars don't twinkle.
You see this dark pit the comments section keeps falling into? Do you know what that is? Depressing. Optimism is dead here. I mean jesus Christ we are on the swansong of a console that is probably going to be remembered as a Dreamcast like gem that didn't get its time, and next year we will have a game we were gushing over, and a whole new console, regardless of what it is. Isn't that damn exciting? It's something new!!!! Oh wait you all cant decide if you want re-releases or something new, what the hell am I thinking right? I'm just screwed in the head and on medication for depression because funnily enough growing up people didn't let me just like what I wanted to. Pokémon got me beaten up for gods sake.
tl:dr 90% of people I know are bloody idiots. Except the few I like, including those I mentioned and Thanos here.
And of course my good buddy Jack. If I was gay, and I am depending on the day, I would drink you all night buddy. Oh wait, I DO!!!!
@ThanosReXXX The confusing part is that if there was the map on the Gamepad screen, surely it would've been been like that in the E3 demos which clearly isn't the case.
As a Nintendo-exclsuive gamer, I'm not TOO too worried about the future. I can always depend on Nintendo to provide me with the awesome gameplay experiences and lovable IPs that I've come to cherish. What other companies are doing generally doesn't interest me at all, including Microsoft and Sony as well as the majority of third parties. I simply don't have the time to sit down and play every single game that comes out. Nintendo gives me games I know I'll love and that works for me. The NX will have Zelda, it'll have Mario platformers and Mario Kart, it'll have Smash, so I'm good. There are a few third party games that I enjoy, such as GTA and some JRPGs like Tales and Star Ocean, but I'm not overly broken up about not being able to play them. I am not dropping $450 plus tax on a PS4 for one or two games. That's ludicrous. Blockbuster, triple A titles are mostly a total snoozefest to me, so an Xbox or PS4 are of little utility to me as a whole.
The only thing that concerns me is Nintendo's future in the portable space. I game primarily on my 3DS, being able to just open it and instantly get back to my game really works with my decidedly short attention span. I open and shut the thing umpteen dozen times a day, it's great! What I can't deal with are mobile games. Touch controls and lack of any tangible depth and polish really don't sit well with me. Nintendo hasn't so much as hinted at a possible 3DS successor, which threatens my gaming habits. I mean, I'd totally get it, it's a tough market and the general public would rather turn to shallow but free-to-play stuff on a device they already own than shell out hundreds of dollars on a separate piece of tech and games. It's not like I don't have generations' worth of backlogs to play through. Still, it is concerning.
All of this being said, I understand where people are coming from. I am certainly in the minority in terms of my gaming habits and interests. People want a home console that caters to all of their needs. Furthermore, from the perspective of Nintendo fans, greater third party support translates into greater console sales and therefore Nintendo's continued presence as a console developer. It would do more to guarantee that they would be able to continue delivering the games that really make them stand out. It's a complex issue.
Why is everybody all "Paper Mario is the only Wii U game to carry us until the NX and Zelda"? There will certainly be at least a few more games for the Wii U before Nintendo stops supporting it, not to mention there's a ton of new indie games coming out for the system seemingly every month, and a nice lineup for the second half of 2016. Don't forget the Virtual Console either, and have you really played every Wii U game there is and there isn't even one that you can pick up and play again? Games like Smash Bros. are pretty much evergreen, you can play that for forever and it's a blast. Hyrule Warriors is getting BRAND NEW CONTENT in the form of DLC throughout the rest of this year. Splatoon is still going so strong. Mario Kart 8 has a robust online community. If single-player is your thing, there are tons of platformers - have you played them all? Have you unlocked everything in them? What about RPGs like Xenoblade Chronicles? speaking of RPGs, Toko Mirage Sessions comes out in one week and that could carry plenty of people for a long time.
This is the perfect time to catch up on games you missed out on earlier in the game's life, to browse the eshop and discover awesome indie titles (there are SO MANY GREAT ONES on the Wii U), and finally get to play an old classic you never could through the Virtual Console. If you really have absolutely NOTHING worth playing on the wii U right now, then no number of new games will keep you satisfied, really. And you may have lost the fun of gaming in general.
@rjejr What many people miss, though is that this actually bodes well for the NX.
No GamePad 2.0 for that console, so just that regular pro controller that EVERYBODY wanted so badly...
@BLPs Thanks for the compliments. Right back at'cha. Cheers...
@Grumblevolcano it seems that you missed comment #74. I already corrected myself there...
@ThanosReXXX
I really needed to rant that after E3 man, because it was flat out maddening. I was wondering where ya were and well...now I know XD
Reggies comment left me shaking my head. The way I see it they can't replicate the success of the Wii with casuals. They hit at the perfect time with the Wii when awesome smart phones weren't exactly the norm and casual gaming isn't what it was them. At this point all those people have moved on: they have their cell phones and tablets and they are set.
Nintendo had a real chance here to get ahead of their competition and release a beefy machine. Xbox and PlayStation to upgrade to these new systems will have to deal with a stigma of leaving day one people behind but not the Wii U. They literally had a fantastic chance handed to them and sounds like they are going to pull another Wii U out. I really thought they learned their lesson.
This may be a disaster though I really hope I'm wrong, because a beefy tech machine partnered with Breath of the Wild on day one could have really moved systems.
@TadpoleSHero How about new games that aren't already out? VC is just old games on new hardware, indie titles are a hit or miss, and Smash, Xenoblade, Splatoon, and Hyrule Warriors are all old games that have been out already. People want new stuff, not to replay old games.
@ThanosReXXX ""If you'd prefer to use something smaller, you won't be forced to use the Wii U GamePad when playing The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild"
I might be misunderstanding you misunderstanding him, but this is how I read that.
I think you read that as - "if you don't want to use the Gamepad 'screen', you can use a smaller 'map' on the tv."
But what he meant was - "if you don't want to use the large Gamepad 'controller', you can use the smaller Pro 'controller'."
And the reason you can use the smaller Pro controller is b/c they aren't using the Game pad screen FOR ANYTHING.
And yes, I read all your other posts, I'll drop this now.
Is there going to be a big wiiu game for Christmas? Doesn't look like it at the minute
@TadpoleSHero Ok, let's break your post down.
1. Regarding only Paper Mario: Surely Nintendo would've announced something if there was anything? Of course when people say only Paper Mario, they're talking about starting from July 1st (2nd half of 2016) as there are 2 games coming out next week.
2. Indies/VC: People don't consider indies or VC into the debate unless the VC is new games (e.g. if Mother 3 came). We're talking about 1st party stuff!
3. Old retail games: A lot of the games you mention would be more evergreen if there was new DLC coming out for it (e.g. MK8 DLC Packs 3 and 4) but that's not the case. As for Hyrule Warriors, there's misconceptions. The new DLC is rather pointless if you've already 100% completed the game as you're only getting new characters and weapons, if there were new Adventure maps for the Wii U version then your point would be valid but again that's not the case.
4. Catching up with games not bought: That's only a reasonable concept for those who didn't buy the system in the launch window. I'm catching up as I bought the system in September 2013 but someone who bought it in December 2012 would be bored by now.
@sandman89 Nope, Color Splash is the only game between Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE / Mario & Sonic (both June 24th) and Zelda.
@bluedogrulez
It doesn't explain why their system has to lack power by such a high margin compared to the opposition, just because they choose a few gimmicks. Nintendo did that with the weird N64 controller as well and with the mini disc for the Gamecube. So it's nothing new, but those systems had power on par or even slightly better than the opposition. So I call cactus on this. You just can't bring a new console to the table that lacks 6 years in generation cycle on the visual front. It's silly-billy-boo-boos. Yet they continue to do so. I miss the days of the NES and SNES. They dominated in every aspect back then. Do you recall the old Nintendo slogan: "Now you're playing with power"?
@Aneira - profanity is not allowed around these parts. Rules and all that. Please remember this when posting. Thanks.
@BLPs "You see this dark pit the comments section keeps falling into?"
Yeah, and now I feel responsible as I've single-handily brought down about 3 threads today. Fortunately though I may be an emotional basket case, I am smart enough to realize I'm just the messenger. It wasn't my idea to show off a Gamepad screen map in WW HD, TP HD and Zelda U in Dec 2014, then have it quietly disappear without telling anyone when they changed the name to Z:BotW.
Basically, I'm the kid who said the Empreror has no clothes.
@rjejr Like I already told @Grumblevolcano: you missed my comment where I already corrected myself, so no slab of text was needed...
@BLPs Yeah, sad to say I wasn't even kidding. I even saw some people previously optimistic being completely sour and I found it so appalling that any desire to place an E3 related comment fled from my mind like so many funny (and slightly naughty Audrey related) things I was about to post...
I mean: come on, man. How can you NOT comment on this?
And the little redhead (Theresa/Teresa) was cute as a button imho:
@BLPs Great post.
@ThanosReXXX Audrey was a definite high point, but I think most of the posters in this comment section were more interested in looking for frame rate drops or pop in or draw distance.
@MrGawain You win the thread with "Facey McShooty."
Are people really not tired of these games yet?
@ThanosReXXX I couldn't comment on the females because that's both wrong and I'm taken. It went from admiration to ogling and I don't enjoy that in droves like the chat went. It went to hell fast.
@rjejr not your fault bro. I'm at the point where I'm prepared to tear this place apart if that kinda stuff happens again
@WiltonRoots Thanks a lot. Had to be said sadly.
And Thanos, I can say this. My fiance is bigger. :3
@westman98 I would strongly argue Zelda BotW is not aimed at hardcore gamers in the slightest. it is aimed at everyone. If anyone reviews this on eshop and says its for gamers, then seriously...get over yourselves!
I wonder where the fishing rod shrine is.
Sigh, still no NX yet..... 85% has been driven to insanity. Must...keep..sane....for....a...longer......
@WiltonRoots The thing is, that the quality of the streams certainly wasn't helping either: they were truly appalling at times.
I've now downloaded all videos in HD and full HD and they look FAR better than the live streams when I play them on my big TV, and these are YouTube videos, so they are still compressed, which means the ACTUAL videos look even better than that, knowing YouTube's compression format...
But as far as how good the game ACTUALLY looked, don't take it from me but from someone who was actually there playing the demos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmE1PplG3nU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg6hnrC_vgU
I'll take his well-informed opinion over any medium quality stream watcher's any day of the week, my friend...
@BLPs I was just kidding guv'nor. I actually find Audrey quite attractive, and the fact that she can also play games like a pro makes her even better. And I don't ogle, I admire.
I did notice that her Hyrule chest was a bit bigger than last year, though...
@Aneira
The way I see it is that Nintendo and their fans are in a bubble.
There is nothing wrong with this except that bubble is shrinking rapidly and that is bad for business.
I agree with you. Nintendo released consoles (for the last decade) with the most outdated hardware at stupid prices (at least where the Wii U is concerned) and they and their fans think this is genius.
If the NX follows this pattern the only people that will be buying it are those posting on this and similar forums. It would be lucky to do half the Wii U sales.
Gimmicks are a hit (Wii) or miss (Wii U). With VR being the current global gimmick and taking the limelight I really don't see what Nintendo can come up with to compete against that.
To me in 2016 there is nothing special about a hybrid home and handheld system, if that is what their gimmick is.
It's Scorpio POWER that has everyone talking after E3, not the NX.
@GrailUK
All Nintendo games are aimed at everyone. But each game caters to a different audeince. People who bought a Wii to play Wii Sports and Wii Fit (aka the audience Ubisoft is implying that Nintendo will target with the NX) are probably not going to be interested in buy Zelda games.
@ThanosReXXX A peace offering, since I made you read that "slab of text".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ3vf60U2_0
@rjejr That really freaking sucks. He's actively taking away stuff that would make the Wii U version special over the NX. Ugh, Aonuma...
@Hotfusion "It's Scorpio POWER that has everyone talking after E3",
Only the dim-witted and uninformed that listen only to what sounds good to them. Scorpio isn't going to change the industry and like with the NEO, games will need to be compatible with ALL models Xbox, so the vanilla systems will still be leading as far as games still to be published are concerned.
And certain people with knowledge and the connections inside the Xbox team aren't really all that impressed:
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/06/cliff-bleszinski-isnt-a-fan-of-project-scorpio/
And that's just one professional opinion. More are coming out of the woodworks...
@rjejr I see I forgot the quotation marks in my sarcastically intended comment, sorry for that...
But thanks for the video anyway, although I have already downloaded all the Treehouse videos, so I already got all those snippets...
Zelda was good but the nx has me worried. Actually since it was announced last year I don't think I have really been rooting for the nx. It was just announced too soon for me. And with Nintendo not delivering expect for splatoon and Mario maker last year I was worried. I thought maybe by now this system would feel like Nintendo is back and ready but we still know nothing about it. Only that Ubisoft thinks it will get back the Wii crowd and Nintendo saying they are not competing with Microsoft or Sony.
If they want good third party the system is going to have to at least be on the current Xbox one level. And making a console just for a new way to play is not going to work again. Mobile is a big thing now. So a new Wii sports type game played with a crazy controller is not going to do it. They need people who play more complex games coming in at the gate. The causal crowd is probably going to be too wowed by VR to care for another craze next year. So I hope they are putting gamers first with this new system.
If not and it tanks like Wii u, the comment Reggie said about not caring about specs or horsepower is going to fit them being third party. Cause people want the games and not so much paying for a system that disappoints. So I just really hope like Zelda did this system blows me away not just away.
BTW that Reggie interview where he essentially said something along the lines of "specs don't matter, content does" was stated in context of the Xbox Scorpio and PS4 Neo,
That means the NX could still match the current Xbox One and PS4 in horsepower, though a scenario in which it doesn't is possible (and would be embarrassing if true). What Reggie's comments imply is that the NX won't be targeting the super high end consumers who would purchase a $400-$500 Xbox Scorpio or PS4 Neo over the cheaper base models.
@JpGamerGuy90
Nintendo has outright denied the idea that they would consolidate both their handhelds and home consoles into a single "hybrid" device for future generations. What has been implied is that the company will create a "family" of gaming devices, including a handheld and a home consoles, that shared a similar architecture and OS so that software could be developed for both devices. Unifying their software library between handheld and console under the same family/platform would allow Nintendo to utilize their resources more efficiently rather than split their resources to try and support two separate platforms with separate software libraries.
@ThanosReXXX No apologizes, or quotation marks, necessary, I know we're good.
And while you may have DL'd all of Treehouse, my clip works well if you loop it say 10 or 15 times.
I don't like the Treehouse demonstrations, they are unprofession, to long and seem to be used as a filler and to disguise the lack of proper content.
Nintendo's carrot on a stick approach only winds gamers up rather than keep them onside. Eventually the donkey has to be given the carrot or it will refuse to walk.
I am beginning not to be bothered about the NX
The less I know the less I care. If Zelda is that good on the Wii U and there is enough play to last a few months then there will be no rush to want to own the What ever it is NX.
I'm generally a positive kind of person and I still hope to see success for the NX and Nintendo, but there's a tiny Proxi whispering in my ear that the path we're going down here is all too familiar. I really feel they need to reveal the NX now. Holding back is simply feeding uncertainty about a brand and that's not the best place to be when trying to sell your products.
I'll wait, of course (there's no alternative), but the longer the wait, the less comfortable I become. Yes, Reggie, the games matter, but third party support is needed to keep Nintendo as a viable console option for the masses (unless NX turns out to be a super cheap device that can be used a supplemental system).
I like the look of BotW. Please don't let it be the last hurrah.
@rjejr There's no map on the gamepad?
@BLPs Needed to be said, some of the comments in here are wrist-slashingly depressing.
Can anyone tell me if Oasis on the 3DS is first party?
I really cannot conceive what some people are saying. The 3DS is a failure, the worst selling handheld of all time?
Ohh my.. I guess thats a valid point. Nintendo lost money with its what, 80 million 3DS sold and all the games? Sure sure sure
@rjejr Of course we're good, my friend. Us old grumpies have to stand together if anything...
But ehm... watching your clip would probably destroy my liver, whereas the "Hey, there's Ashley again" drinking game worked pretty well (and was manageable too) during the live events...
@MGray Amazing isn't it? They must surely be trolling.
#fullynakedlink
@WiltonRoots You should have seen the comments section during E3 if you think this is bad. The fact that I'm here now and you won't find any comment of mine in there, should tell you enough, since I'm almost always here, at least once a day...
Then again, everyone looked like a mook compared to Sony. And even they basically just won by default on account of the most minute effort. E3 is a complacent dinosaur that edges closer to extinction each and every year. Gamers deserve something better.
@ThanosReXXX I pop in now and then, sometimes I literally laugh out loud at the levels of despair! I read bits and think "really???" I'm finding this bitterness hilarious.
I'm almost convinced that I'm gonna stick to handhelds from now on. That was my bread and butter growing up, and while I like the Wii U a lot, I have minimal confidence that this company will get with the times. I'm starting to see Shigeru as a benign Vince Mcmahon in being a millionaire business leader who once had his finger on the pulse of what was good and popular but has sort of lost his way in his own stubborn business.
I say benign because he doesn't have the track record of scummy carny behavior that vince did.
ON THAT NOTE: How come we haven't had any support for wrestling games since 2K13? That's tragic and upsetting and may be a selling point for me on the NX.
Nintendo's E3 was, in my eyes, average. Not anything amazing, mostly because my expectations were so very low that they could not possibly disappoint. Zelda was the only title of importance, the only game I actually cared for. The rest was more or less the same thing we've seen from past years. Pokemon? Same formula since the 90s. Color Splash? A disgusting insult to the once great Paper Mario series. Mario Party? Isn't this series dead? But Breath of the Wild is something. You can tell Aonuma squeezed all the passion and soul he had making this game and I will absolutely buy it day 1. Perhaps as a good bye gift to Nintendo before leaving them for Sony.
I really loved Nintendo back in the day. Their games were amazing, memorable and had such replay value but I don't know, this generation, Nintendo feels so different. Like a shell of their former selves. As much as I wish and wish that the NX is a success, does Nintendo truly show signs of learning. Ever since the N64 days, they had the hardest time in the world getting third parties invested in their consoles. A few generations later, nothing has changed. What makes us believe that they have learned? Nintendo tries too hard to be the "innovative" company to show off instead of tackling their most immediate and urgent issues. Doesn't seem like they are learning anything to me. With how many franchises they have butchered this generation, even that one area Nintendo was amazing at, games, is suffering.
I have lost so much faith in this company, I do not know why I even bother coming here expecting something to change. It might be the slightest, tiniest bit of hope left in me speaking but deep down, I have this ugly feeling like it's not going to end well. I look at the Playstation fans and I envy them because Sony is always giving them what they want, they keep the hype and deliver and give their players the best they have to offer.
Guess I'll hold dear all these memories I had from their past generations and replay all their old games, this is the best thing I have from them.
Looks like some nindies got some horrible death. I would name a few, but can't remember names, but remember A.N.N.E and some others announced in 2014? Gone.
I would not have much hopes for nindies.
Also, it's obvious they are dumping U in 2016, what is stupid to me is that they didn't show off NX and instead just wait. I guess they did not learn their lesson with the U and hope for the hype to generate by itself.
Gamers for years have been crying out for a proper Metroid game. They've been calling our for F-Zero and other Nintendo IP's. I'm sorry but Ubisoft can keep their Just Dance. Sound bites are pointless. This week Sony did a great job at showing actual games. Yes Sony showed games and it actually worked for them. Zelda however great it may look is just one game. Gamers deserve more than talk from Nintendo execs. Why should gamers settle for a Nintendo platform that only have 2 big games that can't be found on other platforms. With Microsoft focusing on PC gaming Nintendo will have to up their game. Graphical power is real and its here. Meaning today its about the GPU to push the gaming beyond.
@Solid_Stannis
Stannis the Mannis.
My next machine will probably be from Sony so I can play stuff like Uncharted, God of War and all their indies. I'm ready for some eye-candy! NX could well be impressive but the maddening way they go about things (like the My Nintendo Account or whatever it's called + my region locked 3DS) has started to turn me off their whole ecosystem.
Plus, it's hard to look forward to a new Nintendo console with the same old games all over again (Kong, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Zelda, etc), though it is promising that their young teams seem to be making waves now.
It all comes down to what the NX is. It is such a huge question mark and casts a shadow over everything else Nintendo is doing.
I did like what they showed for 3DS though and will get all of those games.
@TheBigK
I'm in exactly the same boat. Perfectly happy to enjoy whatever uniquely-Nintendo games come along, but it is a little concerning to think there might not be a dedicated handheld... Things change, and if nothing else, I trust their ability to make deeply charming characters and experiences, however I'm really not eager for them to entirely replace the handheld segment with mobile apps. Still though it's nice to see I'm not alone in feeling that way.
You know what worries me quite a bit: If this is the Zelda game that NX is getting at/near launch, it likely means there won't be a proper "next-gen" Zelda game on the system for some time, if at all. And, let's be real honest here: This game may look "gorgeous" to some of you, but it really is still a game that graphically/technically looks on par with what the likes of Xbox 360 and PS3 were putting out last-gen, in games like Skyrim, GTA V, Metal Gear Solid 5, Just Cause 2, Far Cry 3, etc—even if you really do prefer the specific art style in BotW. So, just think how totally and utterly behind the times it's going to look in terms of presentation and graphics/visuals when the NX goes up against Sony's and Microsoft's even more powerful 1.5 systems, never even mind their actual proper next-gen consoles. . . .
This is the flagship Zelda game for NX that people are seriously supposed sit there and act like it's competing with whatever hell Sony's and Microsoft's teams are going to put out for their new systems; seriously?
You'd all better hope this is pushing some of the best gameplay ever created in the history of the world, because (assuming the gameplay is just good-great and the presentation and visuals are what they are) if you genuinely believe this is going convince anyone that isn't already a Nintendo fanboy to buy an NX over whatever the hell Sony and Microsoft put out next, or even just their 1.5 systems, you are living in fantasy land.
And THAT'S why I'm so harsh when judging the presentation and graphics/visuals in this game, because they ultimately do actually matter, beyond just your subjective little twinkle-eyed fanboyism. It ALL matters in the grander scheme of things. Or, maybe you guys actually want another flop with **** third party support that basically no one gives a flying **** about. . . .
@FlaygletheBagel
I'm in total agreement. The better bring an arsenal of power and the ease of porting games over or is might be the end all. Support your customers and stop sucking Nintendo
@Mario_Fart You'll probably be yearning for Nintendo's solid gameplay before too long after going through loads and loads of dialog in "games" like Uncharted, but I understand you growing tired of Nintendo just cycling through its IPs each generation and Nintendo needs to rectify the 3rd party issue. I think Nintendo's strategy is going to shift due to the success of Splatoon. We will likely see many more new IPs on the NX than the WiiU (only like 3 or 4 for the WiiU with only 2 developed by Nintendo if you count Captain Toad).
Until I read this article I didn't read into what Ubisoft's reveal could actually spell for Nintendo's future console. Now you have me worried that the NX is going to be another gimmick console, and Nintendo isn't in a strong enough position to hinge its future on a gimmick.
I agree with most comments here ... I kept saying for a very long time and and fan boys here keep attacking me every time ... As a ps4/Xbox one/Wii U owner ...wiiU are doing horrible job ... But I do enjoy my exclusive first party on it ... And some VC games other than that NO ! ... The console it self is expensive and the games are way way expensive and not worth that number specially at E shop and the new rewards system is a big fail ! ...
Fan boys have no idea what's going on with Sony or Microsoft with all those amazing games and the prices they gets and free games every months and free games from time to time and the console spec it self !! And did I mention the sales they have from time to time ? Amazing prices !!!!
When I bought star fox zero for 60$ I was shocked the game can be beaten within 2 hrs !!!! Really even with the delayed that game had ?
They had a bad E3 in my opinion after watching Microsoft and Sony + I didn't expect much from them ... With neo and scorpion next year coming out Nintendo still hinting that NX won't be as powerful as X1 or ps4 vanila !! Really ?
On other hand I'm so in love with my 3ds they did pretty and amazing job!!! But it's the time to move on and get a new handhelds since it start to show age after more than 5 years
Finally ... Even with NX power and everything I will buy it no matter what .. I can't miss any Zelda or Mario/matroid /DK games
im scared
i don't think reggie answered their question, i watched it he never said the nx. he just said at nintendo, i think he dodged it as he can't talk about it.
Really, it's all just a question mark right now. Zelda will be a fitting swan song for Wii U, but I am glad to have other systems to play (Forza Horizon 3, ReCore, Steep).
The big thing for me is figuring out what it would take for me to buy an NX, whatever it may be. I bought the Wii U for MK8, Hyrule Warriors, and Bayonetta 2. I bought the Xbox for Forza 6 and Sunset Overdrive. I bought the PS4 for Ratchet and Clank and the Samurai Warriors 4 games. The 3DS and Vita sold themselves for me. Loads on those two.
But what about NX? I have the Wii U for Zelda. Maybe a Splatoon 2 if they put in more single-player content? Another Bayonetta or an eye-catching MK9? I'm not an early adopter, so I really don't know.
It's tough to say without knowing what the system is, but I think the gimmick ultimately will matter this time. I hope the announcement is soon. I'm very curious.
Not to worry, besides Just Dance and Zelda you will definitely get Ridge Racer for the NX at launch.
I was very disappointed, Wii U is dead 😞
the long term-ish damage is for guys like me. after the news of the nx not coming out until next year, i have yet to turn on my wii u again since that last session of bayonetta; and my 3ds has remained lid shut. nintendo can be frustrating.
Fact check: didnt game cube sell less units than wii u? So maybe wii u isn't the worst selling nintendo console...
@bolt05 Weird "fact" check ... Gamecube sold 21-22 million units worldwide while the Wii U around 13 so far. It will never catch up with the gamecube.
I can't really figure out what all you guys are so excited about,? Just Zelda?
No doubt it will be great, but this is not going to move systems, there is much more advanced open games on the other systems.
I feel like Nintendo is so behind the curve all the time...
@vforvincent same.
@BLPs I praise your "rant" that was essentially an optimistic viewpoint on the negative medium that is the internet. Gamers in comment sections can be some of the most pretentious twats I've ever read words from.
I don't give a rat's butt if the console you claim as your own has the most sales, or the most games even. I don't go to buy a bag of apples from the grocery and research the sales figures to make my decision. I buy the apples that I want to buy and enjoy the shit out of them. And while I'm enjoying those apples, I don't look over at the guy next to me eating a less shiny apple and ridicule him for enjoying a different brand of apple.
Let the business folks in the industry worry about competing with one another while we, the gamers, worry about enjoying games. Easy win for all.
@ironside1911 thanks, which is why I posed a question, I thought it had sold more. thanks
Eh... remember.Not all people like adult games. How about girl gamer ? How about casual or non gamer ? Some people are not growing in such a culture of gaming. They raised in different cultures and habits so when they saw a lot of adult games, they will definetely refuse to play. Because they used to be not playing games like that or don't want inappropriate things. Gaming industry is not for JUST male player only. Give all women, girls and kids to enjoy Girlie games like Style Savvy, Animal Crossing, Kuma Tomo, Wii Party, Go Vacation and etc. They should enjoy those titles like that without worrying inappropriate contents. What's wrong with cutie, adorable and kid-friendly stuffs ? Are they not allowed to enjoy such a games like that ? Are games MUST be adult, sadistic, ultra violence to be called GREAT games ? My gosh... where is your sense of moral ? Even i'm a young adult man but i'm against all adult games. Instead, i played all Safe For Watch games, even Cooking Mama or girlie games that mostly Male player definetely don't want. Just give the young generations a good example.
Nintendo said no NX talk at E3 so I'm not going to punish them for no one else talking about NX. The truth is, they lowered expectations for this entire year, threw all their eggs into the Zelda basket and stuck their head in the sand on everything else. Until we get a Nintendo Direct in the fall that reveals the NX hardware system, I am reserving all judgements. However, I am not buying an NX at launch. I've decided that Wii U owners (like myself) have had to languish through pathetic release windows. I'm not simply giving Nintendo my money. They need to show me games.
@Anti-Matter It's not a matter of, "Only adult games". It's more of "Hey Nintendo, stop making gimmicky systems. Just make something simple." Plus there are many mature games that aren't dark and gritty. Take a look at Bayonetta, or Sunset Overdrive .
Casual gamers have moved on to mobile. This was the reason the Wii U flopped in my opinion. They need to get the hardcore crowd back.
@mariovslink62
I agree for some unnecessary gimmicks but I still hate every single adult and mature games no matter what is inside. My games just from Everyone until Teens ONLY, no mature rating whatsoever. Honestly, FPS genre is the genre that i hate MOST. Completely evil.
The NX will be garbage, just like the Wii U has been, Nintendo might as well throw in the flag.
@Anti-Matter Well I'm not going to judge you.
"Reggie Fils-Aime also played down the graphical arms-race going on between Sony and Microsoft. He essentially said that's up to them, but Nintendo is all about 'the experience'."
Cool Reggie. Nintendo may not care about "Graphical Power" but you know who does?
Every 3rd party developer that exists today.
You know what else they care about?
How easy it is to get their game on other consoles and not having to make "Exceptions" for other consoles.
For a smaller, tighter showing at E3, Nintendo did phenomenal. Good move to show Wii U version of Zelda first, it essentially gets a graphical boost closer to release. Just need another game or 2 to compliment Zelda for NX launch.
It's nice to see some people are optimistic. I frankly am not at all. They really need to pull something out of the ass for me to even consider the NX in the slightest now. Because at this point, I'm buying LoZ on Wii U and calling my Nintendo days done. Going back and buying the Gamecube and get games I missed out on there that I've always wanted to play.
Nintendo are idiots for not also pushing the graphical power of their consoles. Consoles are always limited by their processors, as unlike PCs, the hardware you get is ALL you get until the next generation ones along; it needs to start a generation like a bull and need replacing by the end of its lifespan, not be superseded 18 months after release.
Nintendo were ALL about power with the N64 and couldn't stop shouting about it and it was AWESOME.
Ever since the GameCube got spanked power-wise by the Xbox, Nintendo have banged the drum about experience over power.
Bows the time to put down the drumstick and focus on what gamers want. We gamers owe the industry to Nintendo and we want them back. We already lost a close relative after the Dreamcast; Nintendo continually mis-stepping echoes something we REALLY don't want to see.
I sincerely hope the NX is a beast of a console and we all retrieve our favourite uncle from the depths of alcoholism.
@Kriandis That's what worries me too, Ubisoft is the only third-party developer that announced anything for NX (And even that was a bit of a "Oh yeah, on NX too"-footnote), beyond that i'm not aware of any big third-party announcements...
I love Nintendo, they made the consoles that were the backdrop of my childhood, but the past few years haven't been much good at all, it's like watching a beloved movie- or music-star grow old and a bit weird, all you can do is sit at the sideline, watch it happen and sadly wonder "What the hell are you doing?" ~_~
@FlaygletheBagel @MailOrderNinja
You argue that the casual audience brought in with the Wii and DS is gone. That they've moved on, and they aren't coming back. They have their smartphones and tablets and are set.
However, have you also considered the idea that the core audience has also moved on, and isn't coming back? They have their Xbox or PlayStation (or PC), and they're set.
That audience is gone for good, and no amount of third party support is going to sway them. Gaining the core audience back is a pipe dream.
That brings us to the harsh reality of Nintendo's market position: they can ultimately only sell a Nintendo home console to the dedicated Nintendo fanbase, and a fraction of it at that considering the difference in install base between the Wii U and 3DS.
@Yorumi Yeah the situation for third parties is definitely different on their handhelds. This is one of the reasons why a shared ecosystem is absolutely one of the best things they can do at this point.
I do not see Nintendo winning back any casual (gone) or hardcore gamers (since from last news NX seems another underpowered - no 3rd parties console again). Mario & co. Have lost appeal on the broad audience now (especially on teens) and Nintendo seems too slow to update itself to nowaday gaming standards. Do not forget that 2017 will also be tge year of PSVR, Neo and Scorpio....
All these factors let me think that NX won't sell big numbers again and that the target will be 3ds, WiiU and generally N fanboys.
It willbe an amazing results for Nintendo if they will be able to sell NX to every WiiU users and half of 3ds ones, and hybrid console aims at that...
@BLPs #75
Very good comment.
I understand what you mean. The negativity, shortsightedness, hypocrisy and, sorry to say, downright stupidity is too much. I hardly go to news sites anymore. I have a few youtubers I watch content from. People who actually try and discus the motivations behind decisions, people who enjoys motion controls and the GamePad, people who just really seem to love gaming. I may not agree with everything they say, but they're enjoyable to listen to. And they don't have the me-too-mentality.
And were there weird comments about the female Treehouse members again? I hope those aren't the same people angry about no female Link.
Well, some people do behave as if they had never seen a woman in their life.
I love those "Sony is giving their fans what they want" comments. You mean the company which doesn't even support their own handheld, but invests into VR? The company who makes expensive memory cards? The company who tells you to take a second job to buy a console? Or to buy another console to have more storage?
The company without any legacy? The company who has abandoned their PS1 and PS2 self to chase the lowest common denominator, the "dudebros", alongside Microsoft?
It's fine if you prefer their content. Everybody likes what they like. But don't pretend as if you're treated somehow better by them.
But as I said in another thread, as long as you are the "cool guy", with power, sales and third party support, no one really seems to notice your problems.
The PS3 was a huge letdown for me. To me it's Wii > PS3. That's why I own a Wii U and not a PS4. I might get a PS4 once there will be some JRPGs on it. The industry isn't the same anymore. Over the years I lost interest in many franchises. I'm not even excited for FFXV and I'm a person who liked FFXIII. I didn't get any of the sequels, though. shudders There's hardly any reason for me to get a PS4. At least now. And especially with a better version coming.
Despite that I don't feel the need to go on PushSquare etc. and rain on everybody's parade. If I would get on there and write the exact same things would I also be considered a "true fan", because I criticize them? And everybody who enjoys their content would be considered a "fanboy" and "part of the problem"?
Sorry for being kind of off-topic, but I needed to get that out.
We're clearly not seeing the whole picture yet.
There must be some pretty tight lips in the industry about the NX right now.
Nintendo developpement team are focused on the NX for a while now. That's why we're seeing no big game from them.
What are the trully big games of the Wii U from Nintendo ?
Pikmin 3
Super Mario 3D World
Mario Kart 8
Super Smash Bros 4 ( namco )
Zelda.
That's pretty much it, right ? They gave up on the Wii U when they realised thoses system sellers couldn't make it a succes.
All developpement switched to NX (Zelda BotW is allowed to be a huge game BECAUSE it will be released on NX, if not it would have gotten a much smaller budget).
I say wait and see. When Nintendo will be ready to show us what they've been working on for the past 2-3 years, we'll be able to judge.
@IceClimbers I don't think your theory holds up, hardcore gamers (man I hate that term) love games not companies. If Nintendo brings the games they will come eventually.
The casual market is truly lost unless Nintendo decides to fully abandon its own fanbase. The arrival of Phone and Tablet gaming has made the rift between casuals and hardcore much bigger and if Nintendo wants to get the casual audience to buy their console they will have to make some radical changes that most hardcore gamers (Nintendo fans) won't be happy with.
The best chance Nintendo has at becoming relevant in gaming again is competing with Sony and Microsoft. Don't forget that many gamers are not entirely happy with Neo and Scorpio and there are many comments floating around of moving to PC if the upgrade model becomes the industry norm. Nintendo could position themselves as the go-to company for console games with the most exclusives and 3rd party support if they have a competent console and make an effort (investment) to get the big 3rd party games on board to compete on the same level.
There's no room for 3 consoles in that race but I think Nintendo has a strong case against Microsoft at the moment. They basically told Xbone owners there will be no more exclusives and that their 2 year old console will be second rate in 18 months.
Of course with the comments Reggie made regarding NX I'm not sure Nintendo truly understands the current market or even their position in it. So many bad decisions these last few years and so many disappointed fans, that's not a good sign. Who knows, they may have some kind of revolutionary idea that changes everything for NX. But to be honest, only the most delusional Nintendo fan would still believe that after all that has happened.
I look at the NX situation and see a few things-
1) If the NX was as or more powerful than the PS4 or Xbone, we would have been told. Reggie is a sales guy, and he would spin that selling line. What he said instead was 'it's about the experience'. This to me is like every politician/ salesman ever. If you don't have something they ask for, distract them with something else.
2) I can't get over, to this day, what happened to the Wii U. It was spun as 'the new way to play games' 'a new experience' etc. The fact that the Wii U never sold big numbers was never my issue- however, after commiting to the gamepad concept, Nintendo themselves, irrespective of sales- NEVER committed to producing games which supported the gamepad as a fully important aspect of the Wii U experience. One or two games perhaps, but to commit to that consoledesign with no real ideas is insanity.
3) No NX at E3. This tells me that Nintendo does not have confidence in the concept.
Nintendo need to stop trying to reinvent the wheel every 5 minutes, and commit to fully fleshing out the experiences they are selling us. If you don't have a genuinely brilliant concept, with lots of ideas which support it, for goodness sake, LISTEN TO YOUR FANBASE. We will buy your products. But don't tell us what we want after the Wii and Wii U. Casual gamers with no brand loyalty are a dead end.
Just a few thoughts!
@Matclip My sentiments exactly. Nailed it.
@Rin-go 2 good posts in a row.
This constant quest for power really makes me cringe....if people really want power, get a pc and be done with it.
As for the no NX at E3 crowd, when did they ever say they were going to show it then? They dance to the beat of their own drum. People shouldn't work themselves up over such trivial things. When they're ready they'll announce it.
@WiltonRoots It's not about the power but about getting 3rd parties on board. Most if not all of us here agree that power isn't necessary for fun games.
For many 3rd party developers the best way to make money is to develop a game and release it on multiple platforms, provided the platforms can run the game and have a similar architecture. Wii U was too different from the norm (PC/PS4/XBONE) and the install base wasn't large enough to offset that difference to the extra development costs of making games work on Wii U.
That is why people want a more powerful Nintendo console, they hope that it will bring back 3rd party support and in turn make Nintendo more relevant. Though it may help there are far more issues that need to be resolved and Nintendo has not shown any signs of that happening.
@ThanosReXXX
I have no songs to parody.
Here's something for all us Nintendo fans, though.
While the other companies showed much more at E3, there's nothing left to reveal later.
Nintendo still has much more to reveal in the lead up to the NX release, while still basically winning E3.
And because Zelda is also coming to NX, there is already more anticipation generated for the NX than other upcoming console releases.
Just wait until Nintendo show that first NX Zelda footage.
@noutBr they could have all the power in the world and the third parties still won't come back. Gamecube already proved that. The third parties want to call all the shots, they already have Microsoft and Sony by their nuts...
No point starting the hype train too soon otherwise it will run out of steam.
@WiltonRoots That's why I said there are far more issues that need to be resolved. Gamecube also had other problems, for starters it followed the N64 which did poorly and was massively abandoned by 3rd parties for various reasons (many of which are Nintendo's own fault).
In the end market share is what determines 3rd party support. How Nintendo can gain that market share is the big question.
I'm convinced however, there's no way Nintendo can get back the casual market without abandoning its current fans.
If Nintendo wants to stay in the gaming business they will have to compete or work together with Sony and/or Microsoft on some level. This is by no means an easy task and there's no guarantee they will succeed but I think it's the best choice they have if they want to stay in the console business.
@roboshort I'm sure I'll find plenty of great gameplay on Sony... not to mention better value, more choice and VR.
If Nintendo bring out a new 3D handheld I'll want one but they need to sort themselves out in other areas.
Nintendo did do a good job at E3, but there still is next to nothing for my Wii U to be doing for the next year. I will buy Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE and probably Paper Mario, but that is two games for 9 months.
I almost wish that Nintendo would just remove the time limit from the E3 Zelda demo and release that as a $10-15 eShop title. Let those of us that purchase it get a discount on the full game. That would make me happier than 90% of what they announced.
@IceClimbers I don't agree entirely. With Xbox and PlayStation soon asking fans to pay for new systems the market is there. Let us also not forget that got most gamers having a Nintendo for exclusives alone is almost mandatory if you want some of the best experiences out there.
I think if they show diff something new and shiny with tech on par with the Xbox and PS4 that they would have a shot. They certainly won't if they put out another system woefully underpowered and try to skate on their games no matter how fantastic they are. Wii U has imho one of the best exclusive lineups today, but that doesn't matter if nobody buys it.
I agree with you that it's an uphill battle, but with the hardcore crowd at least it's a chance. With the casual market I don't feel they have a chance at all.
@EngieBengie The Skeptical opinion is understandable. I'm still holding out some hope that Nintendo does get it right, they can't just ignore the fact that the Wii U has suffered greatly since the start. That and other problems their predecessors have had And if something doesn't work, try something different. I just don't want to be a part of the negative bandwagons, and that goes triple for Sony and Microsoft. Even if the negativity is reasonable, this is the same kind of stuff that can turn heel on Sony and Microsoft should they ever make decisions that discourage them from buying their games and/or console, so far it looks those two will be okay. So that's just leaves Nintendo themselves.
@Darknyht Part of me thinks if the NX stays with a March launch that it'll be March 31st (yes, I'm serious March 31st 2017 is a Friday) of which technically it'll be 1 game for 9 months.
The thing is though... is that without good third party support, Nintendo is being forced to bring out games! For example, Mario tennis ultra smash wouldn't have happened if the Wii U had better third party support!
How was Nintendo in any way "solid"? It was absolutely pitiful.
@FJOJR Fair comment. But I've been impressed with the strong uses of the game pad. The problem is there are too few cases. I think it would have been more successful if other third parties jumped on the band wagon and made the most of it, like Ubisoft did with Zombi U.
It's a shame that it could have been more successful, but wasn't due to lack of interest. Maybe there's more to it then that. But the clever technology and idea was there.
I'm interested to see what the NX will bring. I hope it will attract more third parties.
@ironside1911 some of us dont even have miitomo yet. Nintendo is being so weird with everything... and not announcing anything for the NX is also weird. If I recall correctly they said last year that they would talk about NX this year, which makes me even more sad/confused for how they are playing the console game. sigh
Everybody keeps saying that Reggie is either a huge incompetent failure, or a bobble-headed yes man for the suits in Kyoto. Either way, he disappoints everyone like a flaming pile of disgusting garbage. I wonder if people would be more receptive to a leader at NOA who knows what he/she is doing.
@WiltonRoots Right? Get a PC. And if you want an E3 presentation that is scripted with "bad acting", then just watch some soap operas. Granted, the digital event with treehouse was my favorite method of delivery, but I'll take anything over what the other guys are doing and what Nintendo used to do.
@3MonthBeef https://youtu.be/C73f618-3pk?t=636
"talking more about it in 2016" should mean e3 2016 when you hear it in this setting. To be dissapointed that it didnt turn out that way, not even acknowledging the NX on their e3 stream, is a troublesome sign and as a long time fan I am worried about their weird attitude toward their audience.
Oh I have gotten the memo. I might pack all my stuff up and leave the house before they get back tho, if you know what I mean.
If I was Nintendo Life, I would be scared. If I was a fanatic Nintendo fan, I would be even more fearful. The Wii U is useless at this point, and Nintendo promised support on this thing until the end. It's the same tricks with these guys. The only good thing that came out of E3 for me was Microsoft essentially guaranteeing all your games will move along to the next system. If only Nintendo had a little more respect for their fan base.
What is missing from this analysis is discussion of this year's new hardware. You may have heard of it: iOS & Android.
Seriously though, I think any analysis of Nintendo's strategy that does not consider the implication of these new platforms is myopic. They are not going to me little bolt-ons, but core to their approach to providing gameplay experiences.
Even with the amazing looking Breath of the Wild, this was easily Nintendo's worst E3 showing since 2008, and I would even argue it was worse than that. They had Zelda and Pokemon Sun/Moon. That's it. Where the hell was the NX? Not even a measly glimpse at what it might be? Where the hell are all of the other games? I have Pokemon to look forward to this Fall and that's all? Unbelievably terrible E3 for Nintendo, no matter how good Zelda looks. One game doesn't save it.
@Grumblevolcano The NX is not even on my radar. There are three Wii U games for me between now and March 2017. TMS#FE, PM:CJ, and LoZ:BotW. The 3DS side of things looked healthier, especially with some third party support, but the Wii U is limping bloody and broken into the dark night.
I can't help but wonder what a Metroid game done with this open world/third person (Splatoon controls) method. Or a Star Fox game that didn't force the motion controls, or a half dozen other things they could have done better than they did.
@3MonthBeef Surely if Ubisoft had other games that were revealed for PS4/XB1 coming to NX they would've mentioned NX too? Just revealing Just Dance 2017 for NX suggests out of the games in Ubisoft's press conference, only Just Dance 2017 is coming to NX.
@Darknyht Same, not considering NX until they prove themselves. Decided to preorder Mario & Sonic 2016 to boost my 2016 Wii U collection as Color Splash literally is the only thing between Tokyo Mirage Sessions / Mario & Sonic and Zelda.
@WiltonRoots Trolling is what some people life for lol
@3MonthBeef boy you really like the word concoction. I dont get why youre so upset tho? All i am saying is that not even discussing your new console or what games might come for it at the biggest game event in the year is weird. And when you add it to all the other stupid things nintendo has done the last years as a fan im worried. Yes i understand and knew that we have to wait to hear about it. But i dont understand why. I dont understand their tactic doing this.
My relatives have visited me one time in 10 years so any time would be good tbh, but yeah they would most likely come for my bday as i have gone home to visit them on their birthdays. But thats how it works (especially when you move to another country), so it makes sense. What nintendo does- does not make sense.
@3MonthBeef
Yes, that's it. I was looking forward to Versus XIII, but not so much for XV. I admit, I haven't followed the game that intensely, but it ultimately made me realize that Squenix likely won't develop something like FFIX anymore. At least not as a mainline title. FFIX had all those quirky characters, like a boy with a monkey tail, a rat-woman and, um, Quina. Now Bravely Default seems to take that place.
World of Final Fantasy actually looks much more appealing to me. Vivi is so cute. <3
Many times when Japanese developers try too hard to appeal to "Western tastes" the resulting game seems to be stripped from what made the series great in the first place.
I really feel like the push for HD, with its power talk and pseudo-hardcoreness, did more harm than good.
@Tindre
Just because it doesn't make sense to you, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.
They're a business. They don't just do something, because they feel like it. There is a reason behind everything. Just because the consumer doesn't know everything that goes into the decision-making or doesn't want to understand, doesn't make the decision "stupid".
@Rin-go not mentioning their newest flagship at e3, after the wii u bombed is pretty stupid. Ubi mentioned let's dance. that's it. we know zelda is coming. that's it- they contradict themselves: it will be the most powerful unit, vs all we care about is the experience. They have already lost a lot of faith by doing the whole "if you stream nintendo games you owe us money" among other things.- losing faith in a company is easy, getting it is hard. They should do what they can to make their consumers happy. and so far they havent so I have full right to be sceptical. Sure they may have a super duper plan. maybe it'll blow us away. But for now from what I have seen the last years, I have a full right as a consumer to say they are stupid. I have owned all nintendo consoles.... except the wii u. just that in itself says something to me at least. And "Just because it doesn't make sense to you, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense."
I'm not all that concerned. I'm late to the party, so maybe some one has made this point (I don't dare read all 200 comments right now)
Outside of BotW, Nintendo hasn't announced what will and what won't release on the system. Hell, we don't even know what the thing looks like or what it does (outside of playing games obviously) Ubi announcing Just Dance and nothing else makes semse to me. I mean has a Just Dance ever missed a Nintendo system? It's a sure thing, which is why they may have been allowed to announce it. It's the one game that will look the same and have parity across platforms.
I'd imagine Ubi and others will wait to let the cat out of the bag when the NX supports, most likely because NDA or something.
Just my 2 cents.
@Grumblevolcano "Surely if Ubisoft had other games that were revealed for PS4/XB1 coming to NX they would've mentioned NX too? Just revealing Just Dance 2017 for NX suggests out of the games in Ubisoft's press conference, only Just Dance 2017 is coming to NX."
I have to agree with @3MonthBeef here: Ubisoft was just tooting it's own horn for their own personal honor and glory, nothing more, nothing less.
To me it is nigh on impossible to subtract "well, Ubisoft is only making one game for NX and it is going to be Just Dance" from that announcement.
That is SO far removed from what was actually said, that for all intents and purposes it might as well be in another universe altogether.
I don't know if you read my initial comment (#48) in this thread, but if not, allow me to invite you to do so: I already explained the whole Ubisoft thing (and the no NX related news from other developers) there and it saves me the trouble of having to type the same elaborate message twice.
What Ubisoft said means nothing conclusive in relation to NX, and it certainly isn't already spelling doom. People thinking that it does, are reading WAY too much into it. That's simply just not how it works.
@Tindre
I'm glad that they made the Wii U and the 3DS the focus of E3 instead of showing a new console that would have overshadowed everything else. Who'd be interested in all the other games if games for the NX were shown? Now we have another big event, the NX reveal, to look forward to, instead of having everything crammed into one E3. A reveal that will be closer to the actual release.
If you want something "stupid", how about announcing a slim model and then announcing a more powerful model of the same console that is like a year away?
@3MonthBeef yay smilees!
But all I stated was that as a fan, I am worried and dissapointed that Nintendo didn't use the hype of e3 to blow us away, they didnt even mention NX themselves (even a "we will talk about NX in a separate event in the future" for all those that actually dont read nintendo blogs, and didnt know that they werent even going to mention NX at e3). Theres nothing made up or concocted in those statements.
@Rin-go well yeah except for the fact that they showed off the wii u version of zelda that very few will buy, and pokemon sells anyway, so it wasnt really necessary to focus their whole stream on just those two.. zelda is releasing on NX, so why not even mention that..?
Hmm you mean like Nintendo did with the gb advance micro? no wait they released that even after the ds was released. ... or maybe the wii mini version, and 2ds?...
Oh and the new scorpion thing apparently does not mean the games wont work with the older specced machine, so people who need less power can get a cheaper smaller version.
I feel like Nintendo is asking for trouble, a little bit, by giving zero focus to the NX and what it is, yet making it very clear that they're shifting focus to it and pulling the plug on Wii U over a rough year's time. Just seems like E3 would be the best way to introduce everyone to the thing which supposedly will be out before the next E3, but I suppose we'll have to settle for a Nintendo Direct.
@ThanosReXXX Audrey Drake is super cute, and we all love her.
@Genesaur Yes she is. And the redhead is cute also. Different kind of cute, but still. Believe her name is Theresa/Teresa. No other info to be found online...
EDIT:
Oh, wait...
https://twitter.com/Miskomoon
@ThanosReXXX Audrey basically has her dream job in the Treehouse. I first "met" her on IGN's Nintendo Voice Chat, where I adored her attempt at mimicking Brian Altano's "Brrap brrap!" catchphrase, of sorts. And her voice. And the way she talks and gets all emotional over particular Nintendo topics like her love of Game Boy. And "Be nice to Audrey!" She's just great, and I'm always pleased to see and hear her. Also glad she didn't stick with the platinum blonde look. She's much prettier as a brunette.
@Genesaur I think that is called raven-haired (or ebony?), or else it is a VERY dark brunette.
But I agree, and I love me a girl that actually knows how to be good at a game. Except that laugh she has. This year she mostly kept it in check, but last year when she was still a blonde (nothing wrong with that either) she was laughing out loud all the time, and it sounded like the fountain fairies from Ocarina of Time. NOT a good thing, in case you were wondering...
Nintendo re-affirmed the fact they have a strong relationship with the company, and promoted their conference for having "exciting announcements". I think this is a hint towards more of those games featured being released on NX.
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