Rather like the early days of the Wii U when Nintendo cited challenges in shifting to HD development, the ambition behind The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild appears to have been the cause of its multiple delays. Originally announced for a 2015 release, it was pushed back to '2016' before confirmation came in May that it'd arrive in 2017 as a dual Wii U / NX release.
Shigeru Miyamoto, speaking to IGN, has highlighted that technical challenges such as the physics engine held it back. The freedom afforded in the world extends to objects and parts of the environment being manipulated in a variety of ways, in a manner that Nintendo has never attempted before. Rather like the shift to HD development when the Wii U launched, Breath of the Wild has perhaps provided a useful challenge to Nintendo, as it's worked to master and understand techniques that have become increasingly common in the broader development scene.
It's complicated because as we're developing this -- obviously development of NX started a while ago -- and unfortunately, I'm sorry, but the development of this game took a lot longer than expected. We really felt like we would be able to get it done last year, but there was a lot of struggle with using the physics engine, so that's why it took a long time.
Also, when we thought about developing a Zelda game for the NX, it would have to be way further down the life cycle of the system. And this game, rather than really focusing on the unique features of the Wii U, it's really a game you sit down and get into. There was a change in direction, so we decided to develop for both consoles a while ago.
Eiji Aonuma, who states that he has involvement in the NX process, sees it as a positive that an experience like Breath of the Wild will be available on both systems.
From the beginning we were thinking of releasing this title on both platforms. With Twilight Princess, I was looking at, this [then-new] platform called Wii and I had more of an outsider objective view of, 'Oh this is coming out'.
But for this one I was slightly more involved with NX and just judging on the timing of development. When we were going to finish this, we thought it might be fun to have that available for NX as well. I don't see it as something too unfortunate. I think it's nice to have a single title that can be played on two different platforms.
This may have led to feature casualties, though. As pointed out to this writer in other comment sections it seems the GamePad map may have been relegated to a menu-based feature, where it's visible on both the TV and GamePad; in fact, one of our previewers instinctively looked at the controller regardless when accessing the map. The Wii U controller does, however, utilise a degree of motion control for aiming and for use of Link's 'Sheika Slate'. Like the Legend of Zelda HD remasters on Wii U, Breath of the Wild also supports the Pro Controller.
Though delays to this Zelda title have been disappointing, there's the upside that in learning and developing new technologies, like it did in the early days of HD on Wii U, Nintendo is ensuring it can produce similar projects and mechanics with greater ease in future.
In that respect, it's a valuable release for both gamers and Nintendo's teams.
Thanks to all that sent this in.
Before Aonuma confirmed Wii U Pro Controller support, and after seeing GamePad motion controls in the Treehouse presentation, I imagined and hoped NX would have a screen controller improving on the already wonderful Wii U GamePad.
I now think that sadly NX might not come with that wonderful feature-rich controller.
I'm just glad Nintendo finally realized the GamePad is not something worth developing around. The Pro Controller was made for good reason; same with the Dual Shock and XB controller. They just work.
The physics engine was well worth the delay and with the NX coming up (eventually) it wasnt a surprise. Id like to know what improvements the NX can implement.
Considering all the crazy things that people have already done when playing the demo, I'm not surprised that the physics engine was a challenge.
@ThomasBW84: I believe you dropped the second h in 'Sheika Slate'.
hmm reggie kinda said it's still in the full game, the gamepad uses was just not the e3 demo build. something he said interview with smosh games.
They wanted to make an open world game while keeping their standards of quality, it had to take long. That and making sure the game was working perfectly on two consoles, it's almost a surprise that they'll manage to deliver it as soon as 2017 XD
There has to be an advantage to playing this game on the NX. Better graphics for a start and a better controller than the gamepad.
Other wise what's the point.
@CreamyDream Let's consider the glitch where the wood wouldn't catch fire during the Treehouse thingy. Just look at THAT.
Evidence is all bruh
oh was it the pro controller i thought it was the wii motion plus, i really like the wii mote. it'd be cool if they gave the power glove another shot with the vitality sensor.
A big fan of the Wii U Pro Controller and I really hope we can use it for the NX, I even use the Pro controller to play PC games, it's just very comfy. Was no surprise this game got so delayed, it was obvious they wanted a dual release, the big N should just be straight with us for once.
I wonder how games Splatoon and Mario will make the jump without gamepad support, as we now know the NX won't have a similar controller?
I must admit I'm excited for the NX, but I will miss my trusty gamepad for those magic games and the best TV internet browsing solution ever devised.
There aren't many developers that have the luxury of delaying a game for this long for the benefit of refining an element they want to get just right. Obviously Nintendo publishing their own games allows this.
The wait has been painful for us Zelda fans, but I'm hoping it will be worth it in the end. Watching the footage from E3 leaves me hopeful; the physics of the game do look great. Should be worth it in the long run, especially if it's an engine they can reuse in other games too.
Reading this is painful. Not only it shows how behind the times Nintendo actually is, but also how stupid. Physics engine, really? Couldn't you ask some of the studios you own for help or something, instead of screwing around and "delaying" the game for another year?
But in the end, it's actually not delay, which is insult to injury and I absolutely love how Miyamoto is doing damage control with "while ago", like they thought of it year ago or something and then Aonuma over his effort by saying that they were planning to release new Zelda on both platforms from the beginning. From what I remember, we started hearing about the game in beginning of 2013 and if I remember right they said the progress was going pretty good and they had something already geared up for E3 but didn't show because they wanted to polish it more, so that means they were pretty sure back then about the NX itself. Which means the game didn't get the delay, they had it planned to be that way years ago.
This game shows what a mess Nintendo is.
@Dave24 Stop using profanity please.
@Dave24 probably the dumbest comment I've ever read on this website. Congratulations.
I will be really curious to see what a modern Nintendo open-world game plays like. The results should be exciting.
I love my Wii U gamepad!
@AcridSkull The kicker: He still buys it and enjoys it
@Dave24 Really - this is not Painful. . . . I am always very interested to see how Japanese gets translated into English - one thing I do notice is how super polite the Japanese Nintendo Bosses are when describing processes and decisions that they have made. But here - they are being very very honest and this is what they are renowned for and one of the reasons we follow them. Lookout the superb quality that nintendo throw out ! This decision to launch the game on both systems is genius! It is also extremely supportive of owners of the Wii U . . .don't knock it!
@Syrek24 it smacks of someone who has no idea whatsoever about programming and development. Nintendo build their game engines from scratch, they don't just use Unreal or Cryengine like a lot of studios. It takes a long time to develop an engine before they can even begin working on a game, then if they come to an issue with the physics they have to tweak the engine, this takes time.
@cfgk24 you know, their response actually lacks honesty, because Miyamoto gets contradicted by Aonuma. It wasn't "while ago", it turns out both platforms were considered from the very beginning of the development.
@Dave24 how is this a contradiction? Development for both systems started a "while ago".
@AcridSkull apex kek.
The dumbest thing you can say is something not related and go for "hur dur u dumb" and then go full ass with "It takes a long time to develop an engine before they can even begin working on a game". Yep, because without engine, they don't start writing, concept art, etc. For someone calling others "dumb", turns out you are the one.
@Syrek24 you say it like they are working for free or something.
It's good that it got delayed for the NX. Probably the best decision they've made in a while, especially considering the reception it got from E3.
@Dave24 Again please, this time in a comprehensible sentence.
So maybe no screen on the nx controller? I'm fine with that.
@BornInNorway81 the bright side is the controller will last more than 4 hours.
Link to my actual blog post where the comment is written a little bit better
Oh God, you know what: I've just had a terrible thought the NX controller might actually be similar to "horseshoe" controller Patent we saw a while back.
If you watch the scene showing the "magnet" item in the new Zelda gameplay demo, it's frighteningly similar to the controller Patent Nintendo filled a while back (even so far as having the bands on the top ends of the "magnet"):
https://youtu.be/eL3sgKGW1Mk?t=1050 (from 17:30)
Here's the actual Patent link:
My worry level for NX rises even further.
@samuelvictor The panic level rises. . . .
@BornInNorway81 It might seeing how there is some patents with a smaller screen controller design floating around and it actually looked pretty neat. We won't know until they announce it.
Hehe. In other words, "We had to release this game on two platforms to try and maximize our profits. Simple." And I'm very supportive of that reason... which is why I'll forgive the TP-esque scenario here.
I just hope the GamePad isn't neglected too much here. I want to play this game with the GP through out and I don't want it to feel like an afterthought...
@Kirk It's a possibility, but I think the design may just be based off of the standard design of magnets.
Like these: http://imgur.com/0oESkhc
@-Red- That too could absolutely be true; it really could be as simple as that.
But the large size of it, the banding around the top of the ends, the two-handed way of holding it, the general tilt control functionality, the fact Nintendo has a Patent for a controller that basically looks and functions just like that item in its game, the fact Nintendo didn't use the GamePad's touchscreen in the game for no particular reason other than possibly making sure it's fully compatible with the NX controller too and also with basically the same version of the game that doesn't require any major design changes, the fact that Nintendo has a history of designing games with a specific mechanic that tends to be in there just to show off its new controller's functions and features. . . .
The NX controller may end up being nothing like the one in the Patent, but boy are there a lot of dots you could potentially connect.
"Just because they decide to not use it predominately in one game"
MK8, Smash, SMB 3D World, NSMB, WWHD, TPHD, Splatoon, the list goes on... but you already knew that.
Your second paragraph is so immature and emotional that I will not take the bait.
@samuelvictor Of all the people who set you off like that...
@Kirk Right. Because... I dunno, magnets never had that shape before Nintendo released that patent? And because... I dunno, Nintendo will base the controller of their future console off the tiny new feature of JUST one game? Wow. Amazing.
@Vee_Flames Like I've already said above, I'm just looking at the information in front of me and seeing a lot of dots that could very reasonably be connected.
@Kirk Hmm, I'm not sure. Like I said, it's possible, but I hope that that isn't the case.
@-Red- Well, as I said in my actually blog post, it frightens me a bit . . . but if that were the controller it could just as likely turn out to be the best design for a gamepad to date for all we know, possibly. I certainly like the general idea of those grip triggers, and, as many people in here will surely know by now, I've even had that basic idea for my own controller design(s) for some time now (the whole brake grip thing):
It's shown in some of the images and mentioned in the text (ignore the rest of the rant in that particular post as it was just something I thought about when I saw some rumours about other NX related stuff; I'm just linking to it for the bit about the brake grip triggers).
But, I'm still worried if this is any indication of what Nintendo is going for because Nintendo's approach could turn out to be more about the gimmick aspect than anything else if it doesn't get things just right.
@Kirk I agree. I'll give your post a read, thanks.
The gamepad is the best controller of all time. As long it's treated as an added convenience, rather than a central design element, it's absolutely brilliant. Asymmetric multiplayer, off-tv play, strategic enhancement and streamlining (Pikmin 3, Splatoon, Zelda maps), quick internet browsing, artpad & miiverse drawings. It's the perfect controller. The failure of the WiiU is in no way the fault of the gamepad. Nintendo would do well to keep it for the NX. I, for one, hope they do.
I love the level of polish the game has. It does seems they have tested all posibilities.
And for people asking why they didn't have another development team's help, they actually had. Monolith Soft's teams were assigned to help BotW development when they finished XCX. NintendoLife even ran a couple articles on that topic, but it seems the curse of modern life is short term memory.
There really is no need to try hard to find contradictions or shortcomings in anything Nintendo, Aonuma, Miyamoto and Reggie, its top 3 idiot spokespersons, are suggesting, to notice that those buying into this game have played the same, regurgitated formulaic cr** that has been thrown at them: Ganon, Hyrule, Master Sword, Zelda, Triforce over and over and over again.
It is honestly sad to watch gamers have to gobble it up again and again. If i had known this was all that ultimately was to matter in the Zeldaverse, I would have stopped playing after Majora's Mask. But alas, I was a fool myself.
The people who still follow Nintendo, the ones who still think their will be solace as I see them actually try to save the face of games like Color Splash or Federation Force, or even this Zelda game, are people who did not discover Nintendo until the GameCube generation. I am certain that the vast majority of the fans created in the previous generations have checked out.
With all due respect, those from the oldet generations that are still around exclusively playing Nintendo stuff desperately need to get off the "drug addiction." Because that is exactly what it is at this point. Our gaming culture today is not necessarily ideal, but there damn well is so much out there worth trying and sinking one's teeth into. You don't have to be a casual or hardcore gamer - you just need to have the appetite of a gamer plain and simple. There are TONS of games to try at tons of different price points which allows you to take chances and actual risks before finding the stuff that works for you. Nintendo is not a relevant player in today's gaming culture. At best they are arthouse or niche. But they can't even be bothered to show, remotely, that side of themselves.
From mid 2015-mid 2016, Sunset Overdrive, Life is Strange and Rise of the Tomb Raider alone made it a memorable year. Not to mention tons of other things I've tried like Ori or Forza or whatever else that I can't recall at this specific moment. It's not all pessimistic on the horizon from a Nintendo perspective. There's tons to try.
@Frank-The-Tank Other than being a bit less comfortable/ergonomic that I'd personally want/like, I'd actually agree. I would have no major issues with it being the default NX controller, maybe with a few minor tweaks and additions here and there (slightly improved ergonomics, higher-res screen, multi-touch to go along with stylus input, analog on one of the sets of triggers, and that kind of thing).
@jobunker Well, I will definitely give this Zelda game credit for stepping out of its comfort zone, and I think the general sandboxy nature of the gameplay looks fun and pretty deep compared to even most other AAA open-world action/RPG games out there, but I definitely think it's a game lagging quite some distance behind the various similar experiences you can find on the other gaming platforms when it comes to presentation and graphics/visuals. It's got some merits but it's certainly not up to par in many areas that I personally think are important in those games I consider the true greats. But, if the gameplay turns out to be up there at the highest level, I think I could learn to eventually accept the shortcomings with the presentation and graphics/visuals, although it would always be in the back of my mind that this Zelda game, even if it plays like a dream, could and really should still have been so much more.
Damn I cringe hearing that Nintendo in this day and age is struggling with a physic engine. This shows how horribly technologically behind they are. There still struggling in just developing HD games.
I care about Nintendo and they are the reason I enjoy most video games, but they are getting behind the times and they can't keep on relaying on gimmick anymore. They need to release real powerful HD Possibly 4K hardware while still being innovative if they plan for the NX to be a success. This could be there last system if they don't get this right.
@Frank-The-Tank I'm really hoping so too. I don't know why people hated on it so much. Best controller ever in my opinion and if Ninty made some tweaks to it, it could be even better on NX.
@Kirk I feel you're creating a lot of needless worry for yourself. Nintendo would never release a controller like this as the pack in controller. As a secondary peripheral that's a possibility and anyone's guess. Nintendo releasing that touch screen controller with 2 analog sticks would be way better than this terrible idea. The NX and it's horseshoe controller would give the Virtual Boy a serious run for it's money, as no one would buy this system. It would be a huge flop out of the gate. Nintendo isn't NOT prone to shooting themselves in the foot with their ideas, but this would be beyond shooting themselves in the foot....
Here are example of what this could be for:
None of those options even indicate it being the pack-in controller of the NX. Mostly related to health stuff.
Heck this controller ( http://kotaku.com/5334428/nintendos-shameful-inflatable-horse-riding-wii-controller ) can still come to the NX. Companies make patents, that they never use, all the time. Personally if this controller is real, it's going to be related to their "Quality of Life" initiative.
I think you just need to calm down, don't panic and just wait. Don't believe everything you see and read on the internet.
I suspected they might have had some technical issues particularly due to Wii U's relatively weak hardware. I'm guessing the troubles with the physics engine have been with optimizing it for Wii U specifically.
@Kirk On that note, another reason they're delaying the game is to make a more beautiful and graphically advanced version for the NX! I understand your criticism on the shortcomings of the graphical quality of the game and you're completely right, Kirk. But had this game been out during the PS3/X360 gen, it would have been praised to high heaven.
I hope they put real effort in the NX version. Less pop in, longer draw distance (farther LOD), higher res everything, better lighting/shadows, more foliage and consistent framerates. Otherwise I think that the art-style is magnificent and we needn't compare it to more photo-realistic games.
@Moshugan "But had this game been out during the PS3/X360 gen, it would have been praised to high heaven."
I agree, but we are now a whole generation beyond those systems in terms of graphical power and even in terms of the standards of presentation in many ways, and it's just a shame that it's kind of obvious (to me at least) that this Zelda game looks more like a title from the previous generation than one from the current generation.
Just imagine if this Zelda game actually was on the same level of presentation and graphics as some of the stuff we're seeing on the other current-gen consoles. . . . It could have been truly mind boggling, and easily game of the generation in every way, rather than just potentially gameplay, and it really frustrates me that the only reason we aren't getting that now is because Nintendo basically shafted us all by putting out a system an entire generation out of date, again. Also, I still think even within the limitations of the Wii U that Nintendo could polish some aspects of this game's presentation and graphics/visuals more (it's in looking closer at the little details that you start to see the shortcomings).
Like I always say, I just expect more from Nintendo, and it's only because I know fine well it's capable of more, and because it would be a truly magical thing if Nintendo was actually putting out games that in terms of presentation and graphics/visuals could to toe to toe with the very best that we're seeing on the other systems, alongside all that great gameplay.
I'm just determined to give Nintendo the hard time it deserves for not giving us that true current-gen system and experience we deserved—and I fear it might even be doing the same thing once again with NX.
@TsukiDeity I always create needles worry for myself. lol
It's sad that the savior for the Wii u will come to late. It's not the Wii u that matters anymore however. They can't screw over the Wii u owners who won't get the NX, but the NX needs to the primary focus. A successfull launch lineup will be crucial to the console's success for third parties and the fans. Hoping for the best
NX launch titles
Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild
F Zero or MK9
Smash Bros NX (port)
@jobunker Do you just comment on every article with overly long, pessimistic views on anything and everything? Sheesh man...
@Kirk That's a good theory with the magnet. I personally like motion controls, so it excites me a bit, but of course I always hope there are options for everyone when it comes to controllers. Don't want to alienate the "normal controller" gamers.
@jobunker I mean sure, I saw a racing game this E3, how many of those have we seen? I also saw some FPS at E3, man... These developers are sure creative aren't they? People who say that Nintendo shoves the same game down our throats are just pathetic arguments. Most games that have sequels start off in their basic form and then overtime grow and expand into different and more complex creations, Graphical and Game mechanics... If you follow the evolution of Zelda, it is not the same game thrown in your face... You have similar concepts, but you also have different interpretations and this iteration is obviously very special. No open world has the dungeons that this game will have, and that is a major seller for me in the Zelda Universe are the puzzles. The action and physics is all a bonus.
@PK_Boss11 Hate to be the bringer of bad news, but with the March 2017 release plans for NX, there's absolutely zero chance of FF7 remake being in the launch lineup unless it launches on PS4 and PC fairly soon since Sony helped fund it under the terms that it would be console exclusive (ie every system but PC) to PS4 for at least 6 months, though it might be a year or permanent exclusivity, not fully sure. I do know it'll be PS4 exclusive for at least the first few months and those months being over before NX launches are slim to none since we don't have a release date yet.
Nintendo still owe proper Animal Crossing games. Hopefully there is Animal Crossing NX with deep robust of gameplay, expanded aspects in everywhere. If i remember about Japanese people habit, some Japanese people like to provide everything in small size but with higher price.
@djtwenty9 The weird thing is the stuff that @jobunker is calling regurgitated.
According to his logic, Halo should have killed off Master Chief ages ago. Rise of the Tomb Raider shouldn't have used Lara Croft. Street Fighter should have ditched the same regurgitated Ryu, Ken, etc. Smash Bros? Oh boy. Don't get him started on that.
Oh, and the really funny thing is by the same token, Metroid Prime Federation Force is the best Metroid game because it doesn't reuse the same regurgitated Samus, isolation, etc.
Imagine a zelda nx bundle on the first day incl amiibos...
Omg they will print money..
yes they work... and it's almost 2 decades they work the same way...
Motion controlling IS the natural evolution of gaming controlling but "casual=hardcore gamers" didn't permit this evolution: "ohhh no it's just waggling around/soccer moms gaming/old people bowling! We are PS/XBOX Super-hardcore gamers (9 to 18 years old...LOL) and we won't let a natural superior setup on a "kiddie" console change our habits (what will we do otherwise with our thumbs?)".
Sure Nintendo had a big part on this (as i like to call it) "involution in gaming control"; maybe if they chose to give us a machine on pair with ps3 and xbox360 everybody now would play the RIGHT way (sorry for my english, mate! )
"It is honestly sad to watch gamers have to gobble it up again and again."
It's even sadder that some gamers care so much what others enjoy playing. Phrases like "gobble it up". As if gobbling up fun games is a bad thing. Or "have to". People don't "have to" do anything. If gamers gobble up Zelda, it is out of a full and coherent willingness. By choice. Like a kid who loves cake, gamers choose to gobble up fun games. And Zelda is consistently one of the funnest games there is.
If you don't enjoy Zelda games, fine. But when you start condescending toward others who enjoy it, insinuating that they are just poor naive gamers who don't know any better, you stop voicing your own personal taste and have begun insulting anyone who doesn't feel the same.
Most people who love Zelda, who are excited for this game, aren't ignorant to other systems and games. I own 47 PS4 games, 15 X1 games and 50 Vita games. I KNOW what else is out there. Some of its great. A lot of it is mediocre. Fallout 4? Uncharted 4? Halo 5? Games are exact replicas time and time again, yet you criticize Zelda for keeping things fresh by changing up the Zelda formula from game to game? Oh but those are fun. And you think Zelda won't be?
Either way. Hate Zelda, say it's not fun. I don't care. But please stop acting like the only reason people enjoy it is out of ignorance to the larger gaming industry. No. I and most others here own other consoles. Play other games. And still choose Zelda above all of it.
The gamepad has saved my gaming and family life! Please give us an improved gamepad for the NX!!
"I don't see it as something too unfortunate"
Umm, what? That phrasing means he thinks it's a little unfortunate! Aonuma is losing it.
If Nintendo were smart, they wouldn't put out Zelda on both consoles at the same time. That and outright REMOVING previously advertised Gamepad features is the ultimate insult to Wii U owners .If they were smart, and cared about customer loyalty, they would give the game about 6 months Wii U exclusivity. Seems fair.
From the beginning? Didn't development start like 2011 or 2012? That's just weird. Could it be a mistranslation?
I kind of hope that all the talk about the GamePad is basically "We're under NDA". Apparently there were rumours - or are they even facts? - that the GamePad was developed with the new Zelda game in mind. Or that it was going to be used in unique ways in the dungeons.
I have to say, some things that are being said after the reveal kind of damped my excitement. WW HD showed how the GamePad steamlines the overall experience and to have none of that in the new title is a bummer. Like I said, I hope it's NDA talk.
So the nx has a pro controller with motion controls built in
How old is half-life2? Similar physics in there
One more thing. Link is basically using the GamePad in the game itself! ToT If they're giving Link a GamePad, but we won't be able to do anything with it ourselves, that'd be such a tease. T_T
The game will be enjoyable nonetheless, but hopefully there will be some nice GamePad integration.
I really really hope we're being NDA talked.
Having no more second screen would be a huge step back.
Just watched a video on mynintendo news link opens a chest from the side kicking it with his foot as he does but because he hasn't got shoes yet he hurts himself 😂
Said it before and I'll say it again, I love the Wii U GamePad! So do my kids, I've three nephews and a niece all with their Own Wii U & not one of them has a problem with it. When my sisters kids come round they only wanna use the GamePad. I do remember a guy I used to work with said he hated it. I can't imagine using anything else, but hey let's wait and see. All in good time people!
Trying to put some of the blame on engine issues for the delay when we're all pretty much sure it's because they want a simultaneous launch on both Wii U and NX. I'd appreciate it a little more if they wouldn't so blatantly lie to us.
And it now being a dual release may have cost some of the Wii U versions features to be cut because you can't be showing up the NX version that can't replicate them. We don't know yet but maybe a second screen and motion controls.
I love all the hate towards the gamepad. I love mine. It's the main reason why I have a wii u. Off screen play and tablet like features means it gets more use then any device in my household. The have 3 charging cords around the living room because it is almost always dead. Only complaint right there. Awesome exclusives, I have over 300 games with my wii and vc/eshop collection and can play 8 person smash. Most of which is loaded on my terabit hdd. My ps4 has exactly 7 games and a 500gb. It's only real use is prob 90% dark souls and collected dust until it came out. However, I do believe my wii life cycle will be endeding. It's basically what 10/11 year old console. My ps4 has some games to keep me playing while I wait for Zelda and whatever nx is. But as long as the wii u stays online capable, I think it will continue to be our main home console. Yea, and it free online. I've never understood why people pay for gaming as a service. I hope that's not nx.
@Kirk However much it pains me to admit, I agree with you! It's a shame Nintendo's hardware is almost a generation behind. It just doesn't bother me quite as much.
@sandman89 "How old is half-life2? Similar physics in there"
I beg to differ. I think that the physics are more concistent and there's a better sense of weight in Zelda. While HL2's physics engine Havok was cool, there still was a bit of weightlessness present.
@ASonic3582 Yeah but beta or a demo could be
Probably not though, right it got pushed back
@Anti-Matter Couldn't agree more, but an early release of animal crossing would be bad. Remember how new super Mario bros u missed out on amiibo, the pro controller, and developments in mii verse cause it came out so early. A new f zero and BotW however would be great because BotW won't be the only Zelda game and F zero or MK9 won't be the only racing game
Yeah. It would be nice to see Mario Kart 9 for NX with a lot of revivals from Mario Kart 8 and older Mario Kart. And it would be perfect if we are allowed to customize our avatar with a lot of choices of hairstyle, hair color, voices, clothes, car body parts, etc. Imagine Mario Kart 8 + MySims Racing.
I'll get this on the NX, I've got my money saved to get one! Though the experience will probably be similar. I'm sure the NX will have some other benefits, achievements, better frame rate, 1080p. Although I'm sure the Wii U version Will be very good too! I'm just hyped for this game!
I am happy for the delay. This one looks like its going to be worth the wait.
And I want NX to be an evolution of GamePad.
I am not going to go back to last gen controls. I want more emphasis on developement of input devices, than graphics. (And what comes to processing power, I would prefer better CPU instead of loading most eggs to the GPU basket)
If the NX doesn't at least have gyro, I'm going full VR(+PC strategy games of course). Gyro in Splatoon is one example of compelling use of the GamePad, and it makes it easier to not only aim faster, but also keep track of surroundings for me. The team work and awareness of the situation in the map wouldn't work without the GamePad either. The Splatoon wouldn't exists without the GamePad. It's my favorite online shooter, and I want nothing more, than next gen Splatoon, and I would hate to see it downgraded for last gen controls that "just works". "Just works" is not enough for me.
And it's not only about the speed and precission. I just like the feeling of direct control of direction more than the indirect nature of the last gen controls(where you can only control the speed of your turning with limited range of movement.) The direct controls makes me feel more direct connection with the game character.
Even when the GamePad wasn't regularly put to good use, having a screen in the controller is affordable way of adding tons of all kinds of functionality. Next iteration might not be limited to only one player having the screen, thus allowing independed movement for each player in next NSMB for just one example.
I am pretty sure the delay is 90% because of the NX.
Ah well, at least the game looks very strong!
Lol, damage control, look out!
We all know one of these statements is more true than the other.
@JaxonH Most people I've known in my lifetime don't own multiple consoles a generation, they own a single one. That is actually the usual thing to see.
Which makes every last obnoxious comeback of yours based on the idea of owning two systems not just moot, but indicative of what I've been saying - there's a kind of obsession with gaming that gets unhealthy past a certain point. Good luck finishing your 47 PS4 games. I'm not sure who even has the time for that.
@djtwenty9 I haven't played an FPS game since owning an Xbox One. These are standard cliches of today's gaming culture, that they are everywhere. All the other consoles outside of the Wii U get all kinds of genres to play, this is a fact.
Take a game like Color Splash or Fed Force. These games are not only repetitive... They're kind of childish too. The formula isn't just repetitive or iterative, which, hey, maybe could be tolerated by some to a certain limit (although I don't know how you can play the same stories revolving around the triforce and ganon over and over again). The formula is also becoming really simplified, or diminutive.
If you can tolerate that in your games, please proceed. But no way in hell will I stick to those kinds of games when they are clearly devolving into something reductive. No one liked the sticker formula. No one liked the look or direction of federation force. Add the (very obvious) fact that, from a story and even mood/atmospheric perspective, Nintendo absolutely refuses to be creative or take any risks. They've explicitly vocalized it. They've explained that it isn't important to them.
And most obviously of all, looking back, the titles I had a fondness for were the ones that strayed from the stereotypes like ganon, zelda, triforce, which make up the minority of the games in the series.
If you think this is just an iterative step forward for the series, go for it. But by all accounts, I have no interest in playing the same story, no matter what kind of novelty gameplay is sewn into it. I can hunt, camp, and gather food in many other games that also happen to be more complex than this one.
Would be amazing if they made this cross buy on the eShop for both platforms. That would be a great incentive for those sitting on the fence about which system to buy it for and when to upgrade to the NX.
Nintendo is apparently going through the learning woes that most other current-gen AAA developers went through at least a generation ago.
Also, when he says this "I think it's nice to have a single title that can be played on two different platforms." he likely means "if you buy it twice of course"
@Dave24 You didn't read that they got people who worked on Xenoblade Chronicles X to work on it?
@IceClimbers No need for you to knock my arguments by oversimplifying and extrapolating. It says nothing smart about you for doing that aside for making you sound slightly sarcastic.
For the Zelda games, they should have kept the mystery, the whimsy, and the minimal charm they had infused the series with. They did it best with Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask, with some break in those trends in the form of Ocarina of Time. Great game. But not the best because they rehashed themes from older games instead of building upon the tenants of its direct predecessor (Link's Awakening).
The reason they broke with this natural progression is because Miyamoto has a really bad tendency to overrun others around him. This is not because he is a genius it is because this is what the Japanese have a tendency to do, they make things sort of autocratic in that way. Because he was never one to tell stories, and because he loves the notion of games, that is the only way he knows how to build stuff. So he forgoes the kind of original narrative elements that others like Koizumi have designed into the games as they grew.
There's no need to talk about Halo or Tomb Raider. Games like King's Quest have achieved the same kind of thing I am suggesting. They made other characters the central focus with every new title and more importantly, pushed new stories forward. Zelda learnt nothing from Western gaming culture in this respect.
@rjejr glugluglug I can't feel my liver...
Nice deduction, @Kirk! I would have to agree that having no real GamePad functionality here is hinting that the NX controller will not use a touch screen. I doubt it will be a horseshoe type controller (LOL, that patent design is hilarious... Maybe Nintendo was trying to design a chainshot?), but clearly there is a good reason for the GamePad features to have no focus here.
SIGH... At this rate, Nintendo Land is STILL going to be the best use of the GamePad...
@BLPs it's so much more fun reading the comments drunk.
@Syrek24 Even if the open world elements are being emphasized, it still reeks of dropping GamePad specific features that would have further enhanced the gameplay, to accommodate a possibly screenless (perhaps even motionless) controller. One of the primary incentives to get the game seems like it is now being put on the NX version.
@jobunker That's happening all over the place, not just with Zelda and Nintendo. The industry is in desperate need of auteur designers. We can see some of them in crowdfunding (although they are often industry veterans), and we can see some interesting new things in the wider industry. Yet, in general, even though there's more choices of games than ever, I feel some how that there's less variety of experiences. Almost everything looks "been there, done that" to me these days. Only a few things, like SMT4:Apocalypse, Camelot Unchained, crowdfunded games like Pillars of Eternity, and mods of older games are really piquing my interest.
I've been going on a retro binge, including games I never played before, and most of my new purchases are on PC. Wii U was sort of a pathetic last gasp compared to it's predecessors for me, and the other two consoles don't tickle my fancy at all. So what you're alluding to may actually be a widespread problem, not an isolated one.
@PlywoodStick Have to disagree, Splatoon has much better Gamepad usage than Nintendo Land.
@Grumblevolcano Splatoon is better in the sense of using the Zelda Quest and Metroid Arena style of GamePad controls... But that's it. Other than that, I would prefer a MotionPlus Wii Remote and Nunchuk for shooters, myself.
@zool for the many millions of people who will never own a Wii U of course.
@Dave24 I'd be more worried that all the hard work that Nintendo put into this one engine is just going to end up not being used again... That would be a shame. It's supremely inefficient to not export anything from a big project like this.
@WiltonRoots join in. It's fuuun
And I've personally never met a Wii or Wii U owner where that's all they've ever owned or played. Either way, people aren't ignorant. Even if it's their only console, they've most likely seen or played other games at a friend's house. Unless, most people you've met don't have those either.
But most importantly, why belittle gamers who enjoy Nintendo or Zelda? Is it not enough to say you don't like something without marginalizing those who do? And judging me isn't helping your cause.
It's a good thing if the game was held back due to the physics engine. I can't imagine mounting my horse and running straight up mountains like a monkey buffoon a la Skyrim all over again. The sheer size of this zelda title accompanied with the content that has to be injected carefully into each nook and cranny is what is making this game take so long to come out. Nintendo always create micro engines for each game play element, and because of this most of their 1st party titles take much time to develop.
@PlywoodStick "SIGH... At this rate, Nintendo Land is STILL going to be the best use of the GamePad..."
What a tragedy, isn't it? :---D
Nintendo: Hey lets delay this game for a few years to develop the physics engine, and Assure the Quality of the game.
Sega: Hey, forget delaying Sonic 06, I'm sure Silvers physics will be fine. Quality Assurance? That sounds like Fancy word for wasting time, lets release that sucker today!
I see we have lots of developers on these forums who know exactly what goes into developing a game. And of course they also have all the insider info to know what those physics problems were. -rolls eyes-
@Kirk That's reaching. Like to the farthest edges of the universe and beyond. Baseless and needlessly creating negativity and panic... (why would you even want to do that to yourself, let alone drag others along with you?)
The size and shape of the magnet is simply in relation to what it must be able to lift. Even though it is still kind of unrealistic now to lift enormous slabs of iron and huge spheres with the magnet in the game, it would be even more unrealistic and flat out ridiculous if Link would be able to do so with a smaller magnet that would fit into the palm of one hand. No, the patent means nothing whatsoever in that respect.
And we have to remember that from ALL the patents we've seen so far, ONLY the patent for the Supplemental Computing Devices has been cleared for completion, so if anything, only that patent has any chance of ever coming to life in some shape or form in the near future.
The others are just patented to prevent other companies from doing so but will most likely never see the light of day, like the Wii horse and motorcycle handle bars patent for Wii.
@IceClimbers #70 Spot on. Stupid thing is, that people like him aren't even aware themselves that this is what their reasoning comes down to.
@JaxonH #73 Great comment, totally agreed. And did my eyes deceive me or did someone actually just call you out on being obnoxious? YOU? Obnoxious? What this world is coming to if we aren't even allowed to speak our minds and honest opinions anymore...
I'm simultaneously laughing my @ss off and being a bit sad at all the people thinking they know exactly what Nintendo is doing or thinking they have even the slightest hint of the intricacies of running a corporate business. I'm sad because this unfortunately is the state of the community on the internet at large: having a big mouth, clueless opinion and thinking because they Googled something that they actually have any knowledge or superior stance on any topic at hand.
Let me give you a hint: you DON'T. The video at the top of my comment is also for you all...
@WiltonRoots @BLPs Taking a page from your book, I probably should have been drunk by now as well to be able to squeeze even the tiniest drop of enjoyment from this latest example of how "great" a comments section on NLife can be...
@Rin-go and you ARE a developer? If so, why don't you just add something constructive instead of virtually rolling your eyes.
@JaxonH im not belittling...! Thats not even the point. There's a whole bunch of things to say and it's worth saying because at the end of the day, I'm only referring to things I've experienced. I'm not implying everyone is the same way, but IF it's been anywhere as hard for others over the years to break out of the Nintendo habitus, then it's worth calling it out for exactly what it is!
It took owning all the Xboxes in tandem with the GameCube, Wii and Wii U to finally start enjoying games that I never grew up with. It took my entire gaming life to realize that I had hardly played any games from North American developers - to notice that I had enjoyed almost exclusively games from Japanese or European developers - and that gaming climate has effectively changed today no matter what anyone thinks. The gaming is landscape is very different.
Without getting long winded. These factors all deeply influence what it's like to be a 'comfortable' Nintendo gamer today. If people enjoy Nintendo that's fine. I love their wooly Yoshis, their Vans retro shirts, their incredible zelda concerts. I don't guilt trip myself over these things, I embrace them and willingly continue to put my dollars because who cares.
But there is a very exciting world of things to try, and if you were anything like me, you had a difficult time finally transitioning to other kinds of things on offer. that's why I have no problem voicing it the way I do.
Not surprising. The instant I saw this game and how big and detailed it was, I understood straight away why it was delayed for so long.
@ThanosReXXX GLUG GLUG GLUG!!! Woo lets get bladdered!!!!
@BLPs I just had about 7 little cups of wine... Maybe I need another 7?
@PlywoodStick Depends on the wine. And how big the cup is. This is why I don't add people on Skype, because woooooo
Well, I can't speak to your intentions but that's how it came off when you were talking about people having to gobble this up over and over, as if it's a fact the game sucks and people are just too ignorant to know it.
If you're saying Nintendo fans should branch out, I agree. I tell people all the time- go buy a PS4 or Vita or X1 and see what's out there. I also tell PS4 gamers to branch out and buy a 3DS or Wii U (or just wait for NX) and see what they've been missing.
But the thing is, when I bought a PS4 and Vita (had PS2/PS3 but never played more than 2 games) and really started getting into a lot of the other games out there, it didn't make me stop liking Nintendo games. I still love Zelda, and DKC, and Kirby (especially Robobot- that game is excellent), I just happen to also like Valkyria Chronicles, and Infamous, and Ori & the Blind Forest, and Dark Souls.
Most games nowadays, Nintendo or otherwise, are not groundbreaking. For me, it comes down to one thing- is it fun to play? Looking to Zelda as an example- yes, there are many open world games out there. Yes, you can do these things in other games. But I love the dungeons, the puzzles, and I love reliving the tale each generation. I love the mechanics, and in this instance I really love that beatiful world. Like Xenoblade X, it's begging to be explored.
Maybe that beatiful world and the dungeons aren't doing it for you anymore. But very seldom do I see a world this alluring on any platform. Games like Elder Scrolls and The Witcher are fantastic- don't get me wrong, but there's something to be said for a game where finding secrets is part of the main hook. Those games aren't built around that kind of model. And really, that's why I love most Nintendo games. Metroid Prime had puzzles and secrets galore, as does Zelda (this one much more than past games it seems), even Kirby Robobot even has secrets littered throughout. It's hard to find good games like that elsewhere.
Didn't mean to type so much, but ya. It's not that Nintendo games are the only good games- there's plenty of great games out there- it's just that they are also fun too. And if you knew me you'd understand why I collect and buy so many games. It may very well be unhealthy to buy a game a month for each system but it's certainly a lot healthier than shooting heroin or living that old lifestyle. This helps me and that's why I spend so much time and money on gaming. Had to fill that OCD with something
@Anti-Matter Yeah that'd be insane, although, I'd rather that stay the same if it were up to me. I'd rather have a futuristic GTA style F zero game that combines an open world and racing. The avatar idea could work nicely into that. Perhaps Captian Falcon could retire and now have to train you.
@Honelith I love the pro controller. The sticks could be more responsive with smaller dead zones, but it's a perfect weight with great battery life. The layout is also really nice. But my favorite part is that it feels built for big hands. I get terrible cramps playing Xbox One that I never experienced with the Pro Controller.
I'm not. But at the same time I'm not running around like "Oh, how incompetent, freaking lying to us and treating us like children, look how adult I am complaining on a forum, knowing exactly how to run a company, because only bad luck and the illuminati keep me from having my own very hardcore gaming company that isn't stuck in the past".
Actually though, I'm just being sarcastic. Or cynical, perhaps? That is probably all there's left to do in this "gaming community". And, oh, being friends with Jack.
lol I don't know if serious, but now I want to see. Sounds like fun.
@BLPs Let's play the Comment Section Drinking Game™. Every time someone uses the word "gimmick", you down a shot of vodka. Every time someone mentions a "traditional controller" you neck a bottle of beer. Every time someone uses the word "underpowered" you drink a large glass of wine.
I get a feeling we'd be missing work tomorrow.
@Rin-go I'm serious.
@WiltonRoots I would miss life.
@Rin-go Ah okay. And obviously agreed on the "complaining on a forum" part, but I suppose you already figured that out from my previous comments...
I'll leave the Jack up to you and @BLPs: I'm more of a Ron Bacardi kind of guy. Or beer, if I'm in less of a hurry to get drunk...
@ThanosReXXX Ooh Bacardi. Breezers no doubt?
I do enjoy a beer but the only time I've ever been crawl to the bathroom to heave drunk is on beer. Whiskey doesn't do that.
@BLPs Breezers? Hell no, man. What do you take me for? The pure white one only, with a dash of lime and Coca Cola, and some ice cubes if temperatures rise to tropical numbers...
Don't forget about "stuck in the past", which can also be "stuck in the 80s" or "stuck in the 90s".
It's best to wait for the Comment Section Drinking Game™ until the NX reveal.......... Though that would result into FE-like permadeath.
I'm actually more into wine.
Yes, I figured out that much. You are one of the, sadly, few people on here who seem reasonable, that's why I liked to read your comments even back when I used to come here regularly. That was back when you had another username, I think?
@ThanosReXXX Not that I'm saying you're wrong about me being wrong regarding the whole controller thing, but he'd need a magnet about the size of a house and more to even be close to being able to lift things the way he does in the game. But, the game is pure fantasy makebelief, so we don't really have to worry too much about the exact accuracy of such things. lol
@PlywoodStick Yeah, it's probably not going to be a bizarre horseshoe-type thing, so we don't have to worry too much, but I think the clues are now starting to point to it not having a touchscreen at least. This would be annoying to me for a couple of reasons, because it means it's almost certain the default NX controller now won't be able to play all the current Wii U games that do use the touchscreen extensively, like Super Mario Maker for example, as well as likely not be able to play any games that use the Wiimote specifically too, I expect. So, we're possibly looking at now having at least two extra distinct controller configurations we're going to have to fork out for on top of the default NX asking price if we want to play all those older and still pretty cool games from those two legacy systems, IF the NX even gives us an option to do any such thing.
There's a very real chance here that Nintendo's all-round controller "solution" is about to get EVEN MORE convoluted if people want to play more than just the games specifically made for the new console only (and some of the simpler legacy games if they're lucky).
God, it really is starting to worry me the path Nintendo is taking gaming down: With both the Xbox and PlayStation line of consoles you can basically buy use one default/standard controller that comes in the box and technically be able to play pretty much every game from the line of consoles in the history of those machines, but that's just looking like some ever more absurdly convoluted and expensive notion with each new Nintendo home console, and it's been going like that since basically the Wii era. It's scary stuff for anyone that cares about being able to play all those great legacy games in Nintendo's library, including even those from the relatively recent Wii and Wii U eras.
I hope Nintendo knows what it's doing. I really do.
Physics engine .... ????!!!! .... YEAH RIGHT!!!
@fluggy The whole game is basically one big physics engine, very noticeably so. Or, are you just saying you're not buying that as the genuine reason for the delay.
@Rin-go Yep, I used to call myself TheRealThanos, a name born out of necessity, at least at the time. I'm a child of the seventies and was using the nickname Thanos long before there was even any internet, but I was kind of late to the game with registering an online account with an avatar and that nickname, so imagine my horror when I first tried to register with that name online and found out that the first free Thanos name that came up was either "Thanos32785" or something like "Thano_s" or "Thanos1970"...
And that is where "TheReal" originated from. In my somewhat shortsighted view of that time, I thought it would show everyone that I was the original user of that nickname, but having taken a page out of @rjejr's book and having recently already changed my avatar picture once in honor of Prince passing away, I decided it was finally also time to grow up, well kind of: ThanosReXXX signifies "King of all the Thanosses" and the triple X, well you can probably guess that one...
@Kirk Well, that is exactly what I said: the size of the magnet that is currently in the game is already off, but making it even smaller would be REALLY crazy. This way at least, with the two-handed magnet, they can kind of get away with it, to some extent. And of course also because it's magical, but having a decent sized magnet does help a lot in making it "believable"...
As for your concerns on the potential loss of a touch screen on NX: I suppose it may very well be that there will be an option to use a phone or a tablet to sync with the NX and to use that as a second screen, or the new handheld. (or maybe the GamePad can be synced in some way, although I think that is the most unlikely option. Then again, this is Nintendo we're talking about here, so you never know... )
There certainly are multiple options to offer Wii U functionality on the NX. And some will obviously have to be offered, seeing as we are going to get some Wii U remakes on the NX already.
@ThanosReXXX Well, I definitely already have a major issue with how many different controller "solutions" are required just now to be able to play all the past/legacy Nintendo console games properly on Wii U (like having to buy a bunch of Wiimotes and Nuncucks just to play a majority of Wii games on Wii U for example), and it looks like there's a very real chance it's about to get even worse and even more convoluted on NX going forward for anyone that actually cares about being able to play all the great games from Nintendo's past on this new system—potentially.
Again, I just really hope Nintendo has thought this through fully, because it may be making something that was already a problem/barrier for many people, me being one of those people, even more of a problem/barrier going forward. And that would likely give many gamers a very real reason to look at purchasing the likes of PlayStation-next and Xbox-next over NX, because it's potentially all just so much simpler/seamless to buy into their ecosystems at the end of the day, even with the likely more expensive entry price those machines will have. Nintendo needs to give people reasons to buy its systems over the competition again, not add more reasons that people might as well go over to the competition.
Basically, nothing I'm reading/hearing is instilling me with major confidence that NX isn't just going to end up being part of the problem rather than part of the solution. And, of course it's really all just random speculation at this point, because we ultimately don't really know very many concrete details about the system right now, but still . . . it's worrying.
@fluggy Not all "physics engines" are equal.
Nintendo's talking about a fully working sandbox here, where pretty much every object in the world actually takes into account every other object and acts/responds accordingly, and more importantly, as the player would expect. So, if you see a big boulder at the top of a hill in BotW and decide it would be cool to push it and roll it down the hill to kill the Bokoblins at the bottom, you can. If you think it should be possible to cut down something in the world, it is. If you expect some object to react some way on some other object, it will.
Despite what you imagine, given how far more advanced they look in terms of presentation and graphics/visuals, most similar open-world games on the other platforms don't actually have anywhere near as complex sandbox game design that largely revolved around a similarly sophisticated physics engine.
I mean, Horizon: Zero Dawn looks absolutely stunning technically, and way beyond most of the stuff seen in BofW, but go and actually try to cut down a tree or pick up a boulder or roll one down a hill and you'll likely find nothing happens. Light a fire in H:ZD and see if the actual environment has any effect on it, like the wind blowing it in the same direction and maybe even causing it to propagate over the land burning other bushes, grass, enemies, and whatever else in its path. It likely won't do anything other than just burn in the specific place it was lit and then go out a while later.
And there is a crap load of this sandboxy interaction and potential for emergent gameplay possibilities in the world of BotW.
That's what Nintendo's talking about when it says the physics engine took a lot more time and work than it initially expected to get right.
@Rin-go Ive never enjoyed wine, no idea why.
@ThanosReXXX Ah well, that's pretty good stuff.
@Kirk Well, I don't know if it is going to become more convoluted, since they are ditching the whole Wii/Wii U idea, as Kimishima has said, so I don't expect there to be any options for Wiimotes and such, so an alternative needs to be offered if there are going to be Wii U remakes or backward compatibility in some way, shape or form.
And either a touch pad on a controller like PS4 (or Vita) or a tablet/smart glass option then seems the most likely.
If they give the NX it's very own traditional controller, say Nintendo's equivalent to the Xbox One's controller, then they still need to offer some of the other methods of control as options, but it wouldn't be as extensive as with the Wii and the Wii U.
By the way: great assessment of the whole physics engine stuff. Two thumbs up.
@Rin-go I can enjoy a good glass of wine with certain meals at times, but as a standalone drink hardly ever, unless there's nothing else in the house...
@BLPs I used to drink Stroh Rum. It's an Austrian brand of spiced rum and it comes in two varieties: 38 and 80 percent. I used to buy the latter...
Wow, it actually comes in five(!) varieties:
Except around these here parts apparently, since I've only ever seen the 38 and 80 percent variety.
@Kirk yeah ..... And it "just so happens" that the time taken to master your "physics engine" (from way back in 2014) coincides PERFECTLY with the release of their new console in .... Um .... 2017!!!! ...... hang on ..... wait for it ...... YEAH RIGHT!!! Nintendo are no strangers to physics engine... Nothing I've seen in botw looks like it moves different to any other Zelda.
@ThanosReXXX Off-topic, but I was reading the triple-X in your username as like "Thanos reks BUT A LOT" in my head (which I actually don't disagree with; he's probably my favorite Marvel character). Did you read Starlin's last Infinity trilogy that just finished up? Kind of a drug trip, but a good, proper send-off before the movies inevitably make him a moustache-twiddler.
ON-topic though, I don't mind this delay. The past year has been really rough for Nintendo and honestly I think it's in their best interest to give people time to forget before putting out another Zelda.
@ThanosReXXX I just stick to whiskey. Its an expensive habit I'm afraid.
@fluggy Trust me, this is a far more robust physics engine than in any of the previous Zelda games, by quite some way. And, to be clear, simply moving around the character or having enemies move around, and stuff like that, isn't usually part of a physics engine. It isn't in this game either during normal movement and stuff. They do however switch into the more physics based stuff when they fall over or they're dead and their bodies start rolling down hills and stuff. But, basically, there's far more physics based and even sandboxy type stuff in this Zelda game than most other Nintendo games I've seen, if not all of them.
@ThanosReXXX Well yeah, it's likely to either become even more convoluted (unless they go with a similar controller again or some solution that effectively incorporates all the other control systems) or you'll almost certainly have to sacrifice something going forward, in terms of being able to play many of those beloved games from the likes of Wii and Wii U. Or, they could just go with the same option they did this time and have gamers buy loads of extra controllers and peripherals if they want to play those games from previous systems properly. Either way it's all starting to get very messy at this point, and only Nintendo has the power to tidy things up if it really wants to.
I'm like that: I'll get a thumbs up for one thing I say, and then a thumbs down for something else I say a few seconds later. lol
@BLPs Used to pour that into my Coke as well: Johnny Walker Red Label...
@fluggy Look again and take care to note all the minute movements on screen at any one time: this is definitely not the same physics formula as in any old or previous Zelda game. And Aonuma is notorious for making custom software, so it's a pretty safe bet to say that this is indeed an entirely different engine altogether.
@Kirk I really think you're seeing a lot of bears on the road there. Like I said: they'll probably have a new normal controller like the other two consoles have, and then some way of playing Wii U games on your NX, so that is only two or three control methods at most. Nothing messy or convoluted about it in my humble opinion...
@World I haven't actively read any comics series since a decade or two ago. When I was in my teens and twenties, I was still a collector and besides the rare series from smaller companies I also read a lot of DC and Marvel comics, but later on my interest in them just faded. And it was also a big burden on my wallet since I collected a LOT of series...
@ThanosReXXX Well, I'm always the pessimist when it comes to stuff like this, especially around Nintendo. Unless something/someone gives me very sound reason to expect the best, I'll usually expect the worst. And Nintendo hasn't exactly given me much reason to go into situations thinking the best with it's consoles in the last few generations.
@ThanosReXXX Ooh Johnny Walker. Good stuff. I tend to go toward stronger whiskeys, but not when I'm reading here.
@WiltonRoots Uh... Traditional controllers are the used on underpowered systems as a sales gimmick?
@Kirk Well, in that case we'll have to let that topic rest, I'm afraid because I don't know what else to tell you. Based on the facts and on what Kimishima has said, I don't expect anything Wii or Wii U related to return in the NX itself, so they WILL have to find another solution to make that work on NX.
But to be honest, a lot of the motion controlled games on Wii and Wii U can easily be transformed to work with normal controls, so it will only be the odd title that suffers or that will need an alternative.
But why not take a more neutral, "wait and see" stance? Ain't gonna hurt nobody and it isn't as doomsday-like, which to me is truly an off-putting frame of mind that WAY too many people online seem to love to adhere to when it comes to Nintendo.
Past results are NEVER any guide or guarantee for the future, and that goes both for success and failure, so the fact that they failed the last time and a half (also counting the latter part of the Wii's life cycle) does in no way mean that it will "surely" also go pear-shaped this time around.
I'm afraid that idea is all on you, my friend. I would rather adopt the "expect nothing" stance, so if I get nothing, I will not be disappointed and if I get something great it will be even greater because I didn't expect anything.
Negative expectations can only ever result in either an "I told you so" effect, only reaffirming what someone already "knew" or the inevitable "mèh" effect, because with a negative outlook, Nintendo is already 2-0 behind in the game, so even if they do good after all, the joy will never be as big and there will probably still be something to complain about, since negative people seem to have a knack to be able to find that in even the most positive of events and/or things.
Sad thing is that you are basically only hurting yourself in the process. I for one like to think in solutions and from a glass half full frame of mind. It is the only way as far as I am concerned, since coming up with problems for things that aren't even there yet is far from constructive and brings me nothing. But to each his own, I guess...
@BLPs Used to dip a toe in several other brands at times too: Glenfiddich, Dimple and even the American kind (bourbon) in the shape of Four Roses, but in the end I returned to rum.
Must be the old pirate inside of me... arrrr...
@PlywoodStick The room is spinning....
@WiltonRoots @ThanosReXXX @PlywoodStick Wheeeeee
I gotta admit I'm a bourbon guy. Bourbon to start anyway, then you go for some proper strong stuff.
@Kirk A lot of people were predicting that the NX wouldn't be backwards compatible anyways. And the PS4/XB1 aren't natively backwards compatible, they need patches to allow some games to be accessible. Quite a difference from the PS2, certain Emotion Engine chip equipped fat PS3's, the Wii, and the Wii U being able to natively support almost the entirety of the previous system's library, and 360 being patched to support many important XB titles.
@ThanosReXXX I simply think based on what I know or what I get a feeling for. I know Nintendo has dropped the ball in numerous ways over the last few generations, ways I consider extremely important, and right now I'm not instilled with any sense of confidence NX is going to reverse that given what I've read and heard so far. And I'd rather not go in with my hopes up only to have them shattered.
Christ, Nintendo can't even manage something as utterly simple and obvious as putting out an English translation of Mother 3, and it's been years at this point—there's even a genuinely brilliant fan translation out there that has been offered up for free, and Nintendo still hasn't got it sorted yet—so I'm certainly not gonna imagine it's suddenly figured out exactly what we all want with the NX if it can't even figure something as simple as giving us Mother 3 in English after however many years.
It's also kinda hard going in neutral about something when you actually care about it as much as I do. I go neutral into things I generally have little real emotional connection to. However, I love video games more than pretty much anything else, and it was largely Nintendo who was responsible for that love, so I go into all things Nintendo with great passion and emotion, be it good or bad.
And, the fact you won't be disappointed either way isn't great to hear for people like me because it puts no onus on Nintendo whatsoever to do better, since it can ultimately do no wrong in your books, or, it won't really disappoint you whatever it does. That's not good enough for me; I expect more from Nintendo than just doing enough to cater to people who don't care enough to care either way. And I actually like to put it out there that I'm asking more of it.
@BLPs My dad has a stockpile of Oban.
@PlywoodStick Well, I'm just talking the control solutions in this particular aspect. If you have the system and controller nailed then it's entirely possible to make BC something you can add into the mix with nothing more than software updates. If you don't have the system and controller nailed it's a much more difficult proposition, or at least potentially far more convoluted.
@ThanosReXXX Woah, I didn't know you were a Vin Diesel fan!
@PlywoodStick My grandfather did a tour of Scottish distilleries a few months before he passed, how he did 50+ drinks before lunch ill never know. I should try some of those higher end things but my family keeps sending me bottles of my buddy Jack, which is fine and a little sweet on the aftertaste I find.
Fun story, the folks I used to live with were party animals (Several times a week, I didn't get to sleep) but never saw me drink until I came in, and started downing straight glasses of whiskey, which they were having shots of, watered down. Bloody wimps.
@Kirk That's not what I said. I expect you to be more than smart enough to not let the concept of nothing elude you.
Just expect nothing, do not expect them to hit it out of the park, that's not what I'm doing either. It's just that I don't see much use in expecting them to fail right of the bat either, so instead of seeing things so black and white, success/failure, I simply acknowledge that there are also a whole heck of a lot of shades of grey (at least 50... ) so these are all options.
No looking back, no basing things on past achievements or failures, that is entirely useless. It is your choice to put on those negative spectacles, it isn't a scientific fact. Fact is that we know nothing, so there is factually neither an ironclad reason to believe that the NX is going to be a humongous success nor that it is going to fail miserably.
I'll hold my middle ground and I will be at peace with it either way, people that are too positive will more than likely be disappointed and people that are too negative will more than likely fall deeper (or back) into their dark pit of despair because nothing will soothe them either way.
@PlywoodStick A Vin Diesel fan? How'd you come to that conclusion?
@ThanosReXXX Like I said, I care too much to just go in expecting nothing and seeing what happens whatever which way. That's simply not how it works when you actually care about something deeply, in my opinion and experience. And, I certainly can't just be indifferent about the whole situation for now either. Knowing very little about NX, which is entirely Nintendo's doing and no one else's, doesn't mean I can just turn off any emotional attachment to it until a later date. We all know NX is coming, and I'm worried about it based on the little we have seen and heard along with Nintendo recent history of such things, and that's about the black and white of it. There kinda is no grey middle ground for me in such a situation; Nintendo has to hit it out the ballpark as far as I'm concerned. But, sadly, I actually don't think it will at all.
So, I'm either gonna be pleasantly surprised, possibly even blown away if it really nails things (I highly doubt it), or I will indeed just say something along the lines of "I told ya so" as you suggest, and then continue to rage on and fight the good fight.
But, make no mistake, it is actually possible for Nintendo to still blow me away, even now. It's just not as easy a feat to blow me away as it might be to blow some of the more hardcore-loyal Nintendo fans away these days. And I really do wanna be blown away.
Mother 3 blew me away.
As long as the game's coming out, I'll be happy.
Also, I'm pro-GamePad. If it's not the NX's controller, so be it, but a more streamlined GamePad would make me a happy camper.
@BLPs Sounds like Scots-Irish blood (liquor) flows in your family's veins! Mine does too, but it's so diluted with other Western European blood that our tolerance is diluted too!
@Kirk I can understand where you're coming from to some extent, but in my book being negative doesn't equal caring about something, so either I'm reading you completely wrong or our definitions of these things differs wildly.
Whatever the answer, I respect your opinion, so I guess that we're just going to have to agree to disagree. And I do hope that all of us can see the NX succeed and have a good run with some great games to come during the course of its life cycle, so we can all be happy and satisfied with Nintendo once again.
Might also once again make the comments section a whole lot more palatable again...
@ThanosReXXX XXX? The movie? (It's a joke)
@fluggy What's impressive about LoZ BotW isn't graphics it's the amount of interactivity that their physics engine has brought about.Watching the demonstrations at E3 It drew my mind to interactions that other open world games just ignore or simply try to avoid having. I remembered the following being in a critically acclaimed series(Elder Scrolls) for two entries in a row by mistake instead of adding actual climbing:
So I can imagine BotW's physics took a very long time to fine tune. Provided the final game matches what E3 has been showing, what I'd say BotW could have over other Open World games is the execution of it's physics and it might raise the standards for what's an acceptable level of interactivity in an Open World game.
@ThanosReXXX It's more that I just don't see the need to mention everything good Nintendo has done since it doesn't have to be fixed. Instead I bring up the things I think Nintendo actually needs to do something about.
It's like if a boat is sailing along on the sea and it suddenly springs a leak. I'm not gonna sit there and say "but the sail is working perfectly. Let's all be happy about that." I'm gonna say "We've sprung a leak. Somebody fix the leak, before we all f'n drown!" And, to be very clear, I won't stop shouting about that leak until it's fixed, regardless of how annoying and negative some people might find it.
Trust me though, I appreciate and care about the ship's sail that's working just fine and dandy just as much as I do about not drowning. lol
And exactly: If the NX is awesome then I'll be awesome. I have no problem with praising Nintendo to high heaven when it's actually warranted.
Go look at my comments on Mother 3 if you don't believe me. . . .
@Rin-go I forgot about those! Yeah it's best to wait before starting the drinking game - it'll be a full blown party in here once the console is officially announced.
I decided instead of watching the back n forth in here to go and fire up Splatoon for the first time since Christmas. I had such a blast! Started off quite rusty then turned into a one man army after about 4 goes, scoring double the points of my next placed teammate! Certainly beats watching online arguments.
@PlywoodStick I wasn't related to him, so its just coincidence I like the liquor myself. As for my former housemates, I put them to shame :3
@PlywoodStick Aw man, sorry I ruined your joke, I totally missed that one. You had me re-reading the last couple of my own comments to go looking for something that might hint at Vin Diesel, but obviously I couldn't find anything.
But the triple X is simply an indication for the adult industry, aka pr0n or whatever you might wanna call it...
@Kirk fair enough, but calling them on what needs to be fixed is okay when we actually know what it is going to be, and therein lies my problem with your theoretical convoluted controller issue for NX, since we literally don't know anything about that yet, which is why I said that you're seeing bears on the road, since you are already inventing problems where there aren't any (yet). And the solution I gave for it wasn't too shabby either, if you ask me...
@ThanosReXXX Then I'd basically always be too late, playing catch up as it were.
I'm not only about calling Nintendo out on what's already broken or what I've just learned will likely end up being broken; I also have to keep reminding it not to do something that's going to cause new issues, or worse, break something that was already working fine in the first place. I kinda feel personally obligated to be that guy, largely because of how much I personally care. But I really don't want to have to keep moaning about some all new thing it's now managed to screw up and ruin too, so I'm trying to make my concerns be heard beforehand, while there's still enough time that maybe some of those issues can be avoided entirely. And, like I said, given Nintendo's history in the last few generations, I don't think that's being to unreasonably harsh and pre-judgemental on it.
It's like if no one ever said "Nintendo, your systems are woefully underpowered" then it might not even try to make NX competitive in terms of power, and, in fact, it still might not. So, people really have to make a lot of noise for Nintendo to even take notice, it seems. Just like the fact we've clearly still not made enough noise for it to bother giving us an English translation version of Mother 3 yet, and you'd think we'd surely made enough noise about that at this point in time, right? But, nope; apparently not. You have to wonder just how much noise needs to be made for Nintendo to hear us, and I very much wonder and fear that same thing in regards to NX. So, I'm making noise . . . maybe not even enough noise.
Sorry, what solution did you give again? I have a bad short term memory sometimes.
@Kirk The solution could be smart devices or the new handheld for any GamePad functionality that would potentially be needed for Wii U games on the NX. And I said they may very well offer their own version of the Xbox One's controller, so that would be one main controller and then some added options, two at the most, for backward compatibility. Nothing convoluted about it...
"I also have to keep reminding them... "
That almost sounds like you have an official job at Nintendo, keeping an eye on potential doom...
But in all seriousness: we all know that they are not going to listen, whether it is wise or not to do so, so I think people should save themselves the trouble of carrying water to the sea...
And you won't be late, because when the damn thing is finally revealed, it won't be released immediately, so we can still start some petition or whatever if for some reason that would be deemed necessary...
@ThanosReXXX Yeah, there's some ideas in there that Nintendo maybe could and should at least consider.
At times I almost do feel like it is a personal responsibility.
The thing is, Nintendo does actually listen to a degree, even if it's not so obvious at a casual glance. When people make enough noise Nintendo does listen and respond, as it noticeably and measurably did with the whole Xenoblade campaign for example. And, even when that noise isn't so organised, when it's maybe just waves of discontent or whatever rolling across the Internet, it's still something Nintendo often picks up on. You know, in much the same way that many of the design decisions in this new Zelda were directly affected by the various sentiment Aonuma heard across the Internet regarding the other Zelda games around whatever issues had been raised, which he has specifically mentioned a few times even in the recent Treehouse videos.
So, Nintendo hears, if and when enough noise is made, and that noise is usually a mass of voices coming together and saying roughly the same thing. But, each voice is still an individual voice that made a choice to speak up, and I'm just choosing to be one of those voices.
I'm kinda always late, or else I'd be getting what I wanted—and that is the eternal battle I face. . . .
And, by the time we hear anything truly concrete about NX, trust me, it will already be far too late to do anything about it at the point. The machine will basically be nailed in stone by the time any of us have any "say" in the matter.
So, it kinda comes down to when you consider is the right time to start to have a voice and a say about the stuff you're ultimately spending your hard earned money on at the end of the day. And I always choose sooner rather than later.
@Kirk Yeah okay, some of these waves actually made something happen, like project Rainfall and the like, but the other side of that coin is also still very fresh in my mind, courtesy of mr. Miyamoto (I don't know what new and exiting thing to do with F-Zero, so I'd rather not make a new game at all if it is just going to be a prettier version of the same game) and good old Reggie Fils-Aimé (gamers don't know what they want. We give them a new Mario game and Pikmin and it still isn't enough)...
@ThanosReXXX The problem is that everyone has a voice, and many of the other people exercising the right to speak up are just speaking rubbish, imo, which is sometimes what Nintendo hears and responds to. So, ultimately, it also has to listen to the right voices in among all the noise too, which means that if I consider my voice as being one of the ones worth listening to I have to speak even louder to be heard above the rest of the crowd, many of whom actually don't have much of a clue about what they really want or what they're really asking for. I believe Nintendo is guilty of giving us things the wrong people have been asking for, or of coming to its own misguided conclusions about what we want and what we're actually asking for. So, again, I need to be even louder and make even clearer that I wasn't asking for the junk half the other morons out there were asking for; I'm asking for the real good stuff.
But, I guess it all comes down to whether I'm the crazy one who's asking for crazy things or if almost everyone else is. . . .
I mean, I certainly want a new F-Zero, and it absolutely doesn't have to do something totally brand new or gimmicky. It's a copout to say a new F-Zero hasn't been made because he couldn't think of something new and exciting enough to do justify it. It just has to be a great F-Zero game as far as I'm concerned. I'd basically be happy with a new version of F-Zero on Wii U that was something of a mix between F-Zero, F-Zero X, and F-Zero GX, with normal controls, a fun story mode, online multi-player, maybe a track editor that used the GamePad for easy editing (where you could upload your tracks online for others to play), the 30 vehicles racing on the track at once, done in a cool toon-shaded style that matched the original artwork/animation we've seen in the past (so the look is basically very clearly defined and relatively easy to achieve as far as I'm concerned), and in full HD graphics running at a rock-solid 60fps.
But, even if some things are a bit hard to figure out, what excuse can Miyamoto give for not giving us an English version of Mother 3 already? It's about as clear as anything can get in this life what we're asking for here: It's not a 3D remake; it's not a MMO; it's not some new-fangled gimmick we need to see added into the mix; it's just Mother 3 translated into English and then released as at least a digital download (ideally playable on both Wii U and 3DS). Done. It's so simple it's not even funny that we still haven't gotten that yet.
So, again, Nintendo thinks it's giving us what we want and that the problem is we simply can never be satiated or satisfied, but that's because it's either not listening to the right people or it's simply coming to some pretty stupid conclusions about what we actually want, even a combination of the two—at least that's what I think is happening.
And, to Reggie's point: It isn't enough. We want new versions of basically all your major franchises on a single console (ignoring rubbish spin-off and side projects), and a maybe one or two brand new titles too (but I'm talking proper high quality stuff that is actually worth bothering with in the first place, not those crappy spin-offs and farmed out side projects). That's actually not an unreasonable thing to ask or expect. Giving us 10/20 games from the selection of your most popular franchise but leaving out some of the most beloved Nintendo mascots in the process is bound to frustrate and disappoint a lot of people. So, stop making stupid cash-grab spin-offs and at least first concentrate on making new versions of all the games we actually want. And, they also can't be lazy, farmed-out, sub-par, gimmick, convoluted meh like the new Star Fox Zero either. Give us new games in the all the major franchise and make them genuinely AAA stellar efforts. I think that would make a whole lot of people are whole lot more happy than many people are now.
Maybe it's just me, but I honestly don't think it's that complicated a problem to solve.
@Kirk Nintendo and listening to the right voices... like you said and like I've seen it has certainly happened, but as long as people like Reggie keep saying the things that they're saying, these instances can unfortunately be counted on the fingers of one hand, so I'm not holding out for them to fulfill our every wish.
But hey man, you're preaching to the choir here. Personally, I'm still hoping for HD versions of 1080 Snowboarding and Wave Race and for all I care they just add online and are completely similar in every other aspect, as long as I get these games, I'll be a VERY happy camper.
And while they're at it, they should really give us a sequel to Excite Truck too, without the motion controls...
@ThanosReXXX "I'm still hoping for HD versions of 1080 Snowboarding and Wave Race and for all I care they just add online and are completely similar in every other aspect, as long as I get these games, I'll be a VERY happy camper."
I hear you. Basically the same games just with added online and with current-gen presentation and visuals that are polished to high heaven. Hey, that's basically all Steep is and it's getting plenty of attention and praise.
Nintendo probably has about 30 franchises that I'd consider worthy of bringing to pretty much every console at some point in its lifecycle, and I think it needs to make that part of its core development and release cycle each and every time, before it goes off and makes a load of throwaway junk and whatever else. Also it needs to be careful not to add too many random side projects because sometimes people start thinking they should be on that list too, even when half of them are just kinda crap, and that just convolutes and confuses things further.
Right now, Nintendo has enough beloved characters and franchise that if it had simply released a new game in each one on Wii U it would have been one of the greatest Nintendo consoles of all time.
It boggles my mind sometimes how it managed to screw up something that really should have been relatively simple.
But excite truck is not one of the games it should be bringing back, imo. lol That's one of the ones "side projects" I'd actually keep off the list, purely because I thought those games were actually kind of gimmicky throwaway meh to be honest, and they didn't really stand out or enrich Nintendo's game library in any meaningful way. Which is exactly why basically no one even talks about them these days.
@Kirk Well, it is one of my personal favorites and of course they can't make everybody happy, but one thing that I do agree on with all the Negative Nancy's is that Nintendo needs to stop focusing on the same five IP's every damn time.
And of COURSE there needs to be a new Mario and Zelda game, and maybe even a new Yoshi or Kirby game, but like you said: they have so many other great characters that are simply dying to be refurbished into an HD version, or even so long forgotten and left on the shelf that they will have to be reintroduced to part of the current Nintendo crowd, and that is a real shame.
On a side note: to possibly make you understand a bit better where I'm coming from, you need to know that I'm a Sales & Marketing professional, something I may have already told you once, but just in case, taking into account your short term memory and all...
I currently run my own small company but aside from that I still apply what I learned when I was still a lowly employee in the business, and that is working with sayings like "you're only as good as your last party", which might make you understand why I don't put much stock in what a company has previously done, so to me only current or imminent achievements count.
And most of the other things I say are also influenced by that school of thought to some degree, same as the thinking in solutions: think of what CAN be done instead of naming all the things that PREVENT me from doing things or achieving my particular goals, and in that frame of mind I also relate to topics on NLife, since sales & marketing can be applied to any industry, and so can all the rules from that profession.
And on a second side note, with all that in mind, you can probably imagine my absolute horror in seeing how atrociously bad Nintendo went about handling the Wii U's marketing campaign. It was like watching a train wreck happening without being able to do something about it...
Oh well, that's all just water under the bridge now. Here's hoping the new boat will have a more successful journey...
@ThanosReXXX Yeah, I'm not even that much of a comics collector (compared to some, but still about 10 titles a month) and I'm starting to see the logic in what you're saying as I prepare to move in a bit. Digital is looking better and better!
@World Well, I wasn't talking about moving to digital: I'm not into collecting comics AT ALL anymore. I read some every now and then, but that's it.
Third party buzz possibly starting to gain momentum?
@ThanosReXXX I get where you're coming from. Indeed, here's hoping the NX is a huge step forward and in the right direction again.
Look, Breath of the wild will be an astoundingly great experience when it comes out. Of that I have no doubt. But this just further confirms to me that the latest zelda game really is an NX title first and foremost with them porting the game to Wii U because, frankly, there would be a public outcry if it didnt. This has without doubt being the most frustrating development cycle for a Zelda game ive ever seen.
@gatorboi352 Did you seriously just suggest that Splatoon doesn't utilise the gamepad? I had agreed with some of your previous points, but now you're just talking nonsense.
@JaxonH Totally agree. We ALL have our own preferences when it comes to what games we like to play.
Seriously, the most CHILDISH thing a gamer can say to another gamer is, "You should not be playing that game, or using that system. You should be using this and playing that'.
I have been playing games for over 30 years. I have had Xbox and Platstation. They both go for all out power. No innovation what-so-ever. They juat copy what Nintendo spends money and time on developing.
Look at Microsoft.... who would want to be an Xbox ONE owner right now? You have a smaller, but slightly more powerful version coming out soon, then on top of that, they have yet another console launching, dedicated to playing 4k games. Talk about messed up and having no idea what you want to do.
Nintendo has not been sincere lately. Dual release? That I believe. The same reason why Ubisoft delayed Rayman Legends and was hated for.
"Who would want to be an Xbox One owner"
I actually like the Xbox One. It's got a lot of great games (particularly Orio & the Blind Forest, Rare Replay and ReCore looks amazing) and I'm very satisfied with the BC initiative. They just added Portal 2 which is one of my favorite games of all time.
The thing is, I would never tell someone to stop playing what the like and buy an Xbox. I may recommend it in addition to, but not in replacement of. And that's the key difference here.
Nothing wrong with enjoying another console or recommending it to others. But when you say "this here is what people should play, not that" it becomes a matter of elitism. It becomes especially insulting to tell people on a Nintendo fan site, "You should be playing PS/Xbox games instead". That would be like me going to Pushsquare or PureXbox and saying "Idk how you people stand playing these consoles- you should be playing Nintendo. There's so many other games in the world beside AAA"
I'd be called out in a heartbeat for something like that. Yet it's an accepted practice here to do to Nintendo gamers?!
@ThanosReXXX I like the new name, and I didn't get the Vin Diesel reference either maybe b/c ICe Cube was in the 2nd one.
@BLPs I'm old, I only drink iced coffee now.
@rjejr iced tea? Never tried it. I prefer regular tea.
@Kirk Let's make that a huge step forward and I'm with you....
@JaxonH completely agreed. Haven't jumped into the current gen yet, but I'm also a multi-console owner and I am glad to have the diversity and great games from these platforms.
@akaDv8ER Almost completely agreed, except for the Xbox part. Both the previous console as well as the current one have quite a few games, so there should easily be something for everyone there, and there are plenty of nice games besides all the grey & brown dudebro shooters...
@rjejr Much appreciated.
@VanillaLake Well, that wasn't exactly a dual release, unless you see Nintendo as one party and Microsoft and Sony combined as the second party. It was a multi-platform release. But it was indeed delayed for that reason, and it never hit the heights it could have on the Wii U had they not done that.
I think it's kind of a miracle that reviews were still quite favorable across platforms regardless of that delay. There was a lot of negativity surrounding that title, although probably only from insulted Wii U owners...
@ThanosReXXX The term doesn't change the important thing: delaying a game for a multi-platform or dual release. The delay of Zelda on Wii U is much worse because it's made by Nintendo, while Rayman Legends is a third party game from an independent company. That's why I don't understand that some people are okay with this and not with Rayman Legends' delay.
@BLPs Not iced tea, iced coffee. Though I think you would like Long Island iced tea.
I was still excited for Zelda, but didn't realise how much till the trailer played and had goose bumps watching it. I want to support Nintendo for always trying their best, even when they fail (though I would prefer they'd succeed obviously) so I think I'll get both versions
@rjejr Iced coffee is honestly my fiancé's thing. XD
@The_Mysteron Agreed. I'm really fond of splatoon, it just oozes charm all over da place! And think the developers choice of using the game pad the way they have done is genius. It's is easily the best utilisation so far in any game on the system, and seems more like an integral part of the experience that adds to the immersion, instead of a tacked on control scheme or gimmick that can deter you from gameplay (I'm looking at you Starfox (haven't played it yet but I have bought it, so time will tell if it's true for me as well ))
@BLPs ooh congrats on getting engaged! I wish you all the happiness and joy a marriage can offer. Biblically, the reason why man is placed as the head over the woman is not to exert dominance and such, but in having the heart to love her fully and putting her first before yourself, the humility to bow your knee and serve her the best you can, and the using your strength for her and laying down your life to protect her. I pray you'll be able to do all that by God's grace, blessings, Steve.
@VanillaLake I guess you missed the part where I agreed with you. I was just nitpicking concerning the phrasing of the term...
As for the delay of Zelda: that was to be expected, kind of... Nintendo would obviously want to get the maximum amount of profit from that, and the low sales in Wii U consoles isn't going to give them that, considering that not everyone is a Zelda fan, so it's not like they are going to shift million's of copies now on Wii U alone.
And back in 2015 I already predicted that the game wasn't going to be finished because there were a lot of people that actually did think that, which was way too gullible in my opinion.
The major Zelda games have always had a development cycle of 3 years or more, and this is the biggest Zelda yet, so I am not surprised at all.
So, combining all these points it is no shocker to me that it is going to be a dual release, because obviously they have a lot of faith in whatever the NX is and they will probably offer bundles both with and without Zelda, so that way they will probably sell way more in combination with the people that will only want the Wii U edition.
@VanillaLake And as for Rayman Legends: people were not just mad because it was delayed. People were mad because it was supposed to be a Wii U exclusive and then when Ubisoft saw the dwindling sales of ZombiU and also saw that Wii U's weren't flying off the shelves they did a 360 and decided they wanted to broaden the spectrum and their potential for a profit, which is what prompted them to hold back until they could do a multi-platform release.
Objectively, it was just a sound, logical business decision, but I can definitely also understand the anger of Nintendo-only gamers back then...
@ThanosReXXX Zelda Wii U was also supposed to be a Wii U exclusive and a reason to buy the console since the game was announced, so my point still stands. Moreover, Nintendo artificially delayed the game to be a dual/multi-platform (I'm using both terms so you don't complain) release. Who believes the physics engine excuse? If that was true it wouldn't arrive exactly the same day as NX launches. The difference between Ubisoft and Nintendo is that Ubisoft is an independent company and Nintendo is supposed to take care of Wii U owners but does not.
EDIT: In short, the physics engine excuse is sugar coating the real reason.
@Kirk I just read your comments. The magnets thing might be just a hypothesis, but that Zelda U/Breath of the Wild does not use the touchscreen in any special way is a fact, plus the rumours that say NX will be cheap make me think that NX controller will not have a touchscreen (whether is a magnet thing or not), which means some Wii U ports will be impossible. Thus, NX would be another unrelated Nintendo experiment... yikes.
@VanillaLake I feel like you're sort of dead set to be right, but your reasoning is also pretty black & white in some aspects, while the actual truth is that there are many, many more shades of grey in between.
I also don't believe the physics engine thing completely, but I do think it is a half-truth. What I mean by that is that I suspect that the troubles are coming from them developing in HD in general, and more specific for this game: with the NX version of it, but they simply left that part out.
I suspect the Wii U version all but done and in post-processing, ironing out the final kinks, and then they will spend the last few months before the release on fine-tuning the NX version, with the Wii U version waiting quietly in the corner, being all ready, produced & packaged until it's bigger brother is finally finished...
Nintendo in general isn't really known for speaking with a double agenda or flat out lying to the media, so at the least you should take part of what they say seriously and not just wipe it off the table as complete and utter nonsense, simply because it doesn't sound right or sit well with YOU.
And the Zelda game being a Wii U exclusive? That was only opted for a VERY short period of time, since Nintendo themselves more than likely already had a good idea before the media reported on it that the Wii U's story was going to go pear-shaped. So in essence, that was no more than a fleeting thought on their part, and a slightly too optimistic thought on the part of some fans who probably still thought that the Wii U was still going to recover or make a comeback.
To me personally, THAT is more something that fits the "who would actually believe that?" label...
The writing was on the wall and only people with blinders on were still expecting it to go to the Wii U exclusively... Peace...
@BLPs Well I hope you let her do the driving.
@VanillaLake "Zelda U/Breath of the Wild does not use the touchscreen in any special way is a fact"
As the Paul Revere-like crusader who has spent way too much time getting Nintendo Life to acknowledge the removal of the real time map from Z:BotW, I'd just like to say, never use the word "fact" in relation to Ntinedo. They never tell us anything, there are no "facts", just rumours, doublespeak, lies and leaks.
Also, the game is probably AT LEAST still 9 months out, so that's a lot of time to for them to switch things up, then today's "Facts" become tomorrow's know nothings getting all up in your face telling you "I told you so."
It curntly looks as if the real time map has been removed from the Gamepad screen, but it also does look like while in the pause menu you can "touch" the screen to put down waypoints, so that would actually be use of the GMapead screen, just not in real time as they showed in Dec 2014. And even that might be wrong.
If you want something resembling a "fact" regarding LoZ:BotW, it certainly seems like there were in fact 2 demos at E3, one that had the touchable map in the VIP room, and one that only had the instructions on the show floor. So the final game could in fact go either way, touchscreen map or no touchscreen map. Reggie did say something about it, but I haven't ever taken anything Reggie has ever said as reality, much less fact.
It really does seem like the real time map won't be in the final game, but if we can use the touchscreen for way points, item switching and other things that either are in now or get added in later, then the screen may still get used "in a special way". But 9 months out, who knows?
@ThanosReXXX Not at all, I think you are the one who thinks that he's always right and tells everybody else that they are wrong - politely, mind you. Honestly, I don't think you are right in most cases, but I don't pretend anybody to change their mind anyway. I'm not stubborn, but I only change my mind when somebody gives me logical and strong arguments. What you call "black or white" does not apply to me, and beating around the bush does not make something truer. Propaganda and sugar-coating don't make me approve an idea.
@rjejr Well, for me using the GamePad in a special way means much more than that. I can live without those features. Actually, I have not only the original games but also both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess remasters (LOL at those that say I'm not a Nintendo fan) and I don't use the GamePad at all as it doesn't improve the experience in any significant way.
@ThanosReXXX I forgot to say, you seem to pretend other people to change their mind to match yours. I just say my opinion and I don't really care if somebody thinks I'm right or wrong.
@Kirk "And exactly: If the NX is awesome then I'll be awesome. I have no problem with praising Nintendo to high heaven when it's actually warranted".
I'm the same as you in that sense. I criticise what I don't like about Nintendo and I praise what I like about them. Some people just don't seem to understand that. I wonder why can't I complain if probably have played more Nintendo games than they and for a longer time? The moment Nintendo starts making polished and fun games again, the moment I will start praising those games, even if they are not my cup of tea. Honestly, people blindly praising everything that Nintendo does even if it is rubbish are not doing them any favour.
@VanillaLake So what you are saying is, no matter what they do with the Gamepad screen it doesn't count to you because you won't use it anyway? I'd hardly call that a fact, more like a subjective opinion. I put on WW HD the other night just to imagine playing it w/o the touchscreen, and I just wouldn't go back to playing it that way. I don't need to try XCX again, over 160 hours and I know how much I used the screen in that, both looking and touching.
I'm not immune to the "it doesn't count" idea though. Whenever I read "off Tv play" I think how worthless that is, it's like saying "special features" on a DVD when they have a chapter menu. That's the least expected a game should do, off-TV play, that's not special when it's expected. So if you want to say a a touchscreen map and item management wouldn't be special to you, well that's ok, but that's nto the same as saying the screen won't be used for anything. You shouldn't really use "Fact" in regard to your subjective opinion.
I really want that real time map, may not even play w/o it, but I can't imagine what would meet your criteria of "Special" if you thought WW HD and XCX didn't do anything with the touchscreen. I can't comment on TP HD, didn't play it.
@rjejr I find it ridiculous to start my posts saying what I say is my opinion. You don't do it either and what you say is also your opinion. I don't like the GamePad unless it is justified and brings something special. For instance, Maiden of Black Water. Honestly, I don't think it's necessary for aiming in games like Zelda since it's not a Wii Remote and since it is clunky I don't think it's worth playing with it for opening menus and inventories.
@VanillaLake Exactly. I mean I'm more than happy to praise Mother 3 if someone wants to ask me how I feel about that game. So, I have no problem heaping praise on Nintendo when I believe it's warranted. It's just not so often these days that I believe it's quite as warranted. And, the issue is usually that despite the good stuff Nintendo is doing, and there is still a lot of good stuff, it always seems to come with some unnecessary compromise or negative too. If Nintendo stops with that kind of junk then I'll largely only have good things to say about it. Again, just like I do about Mother 3—except not the fact that Nintendo still hasn't bothered to give us a proper English release after however many years now. See my point.
@VanillaLake Yeah, I still have no clue what NX will be but I worry about it.
@ThanosReXXX "I also don't believe the physics engine thing completely, but I do think it is a half-truth."
Do you think there will ever be a point when people expect Ntinedo to man up and take responsibility for some of their issues? I don't expect them ever to, they are a bunch of very arrogant people, but it would be nice if some light bulbs went off over peoples heads that went - oh wait, it's not us, it's them.
Zelda U - too much physics
Pikmin 3 - too much HD
Dual Gamepad support - too many Gamepeads
SSBB - did they even give an excuse for it being delayed not once but twice from actual firm release dates?
There is always something w/ Nintnedo, always a handy excuse, but never a real reason. "Please understand" is NOT an apology. it's always something out of their control that we should understand it isn't their fault. it's never their fault. It's always somebody else's fault, and poor Nitnod is put upon - HD graphics, physics, making videogames is so HARD these days, not like it was in the old days. Please understand, the world is a hard place they are trying their best. But they aren't sorry, and they don't take responsibility.
@rjejr So do you see what I mean now?
@VanillaLake "I find it ridiculous to start my posts saying what I say is my opinion."
Yeah, I agree, pretty much everything we type is simply our opinion, so there shouldn't be any reason to say it is our opinion when we type something. And that is why sometimes people point out when things aren't their opinion by saying they are not simply opinion, they are "Fact", which is what you said here:
"but that Zelda U/Breath of the Wild does not use the touchscreen in any special way is a fact,"
You can't claim it is both an opinion and a fact that the touchscreen does not get used in any special way in Zelda. Either factually the touchscreen isn't used - like many Ntinedo games, and Minecraft, that don't use it - or opinion, you don't like how it is used.
You can't have it both ways, your opinion being a fact.
Had you simply said - the tocuhscreen won't be used in any special way - well that's your opinion and I never would have comented, but when you type out FACT, well people are going to fact check it. Nobody ever does an "opinion check".
The reason people don't have to type out - "this is my opinion" - every sinlge time we post, is b/c it's understood. But it can only be understood when we don't claim our opinion to be "fact".
@VanillaLake Wow, that's a whole lot of text, and most of it negative and not recognizable as a description of myself. Like not at all, and not even close.
You keep missing essential nuances or statements in my comments, like in the previous one where I was actually agreeing with you, but you chose to focus on the negative (and that IS black & white no matter how you spin it) and now you seem to miss that I said I FEEL that you are commenting with a certain purpose, and the other things I wrote are just my thoughts and opinions, which should be okay for any of us.
I honestly don't get how you see that as me always being right or trying to persuade people or whatever you meant by that. In this case here, none of us know the truth since we have to go by statements made by Nintendo and it appears that some of us have either a crystal ball sat on their desk or think they know exactly how the internal machinations of Nintendo are working, which is ridiculous at best.
And that is just the thing: NONE of us know, so how could I (or you, or any of us) be right? So I'm just going by what seems most likely at this moment in time, and not to beat myself on the chest, but I do have the experience and the business savvy to be able to paint a partial picture of what that could possibly be. At least more so than most people on here.
But I have NEVER felt myself too big of a man to admit that I'm wrong, so if that will be the case, then I will surely be posting it here when the time comes.
BUT... when I'm right, I'm right and I'll be sure to let people know that, ESPECIALLY people that initially thought that they were right...
I will not gloat, but I will politely stomp anyone that still refutes that into the ground until they either shut up or go away.
To keep it a bit light-hearted for myself, I'm trying to visualize you as one of these friendly, singing Irish football supporters that we are seeing on the news now almost every day, because going by your comments alone, you really do come across as negative and even unfriendly at times. You're probably nothing like that and maybe in real life we could easily go for a pint or two, but on a website you can only go by what you read.
And for that very same reason you might be misjudging me as well, seeing as I don't recognize myself at all in your assessment, like I said before.
@ThanosReXXX Poor guy is arguing w/ both of us now? That seems unfair. All I was trying to do is help him out in case he didn't fully understand what was going on. What's Kirk up to, maybe I can go argue with him.
@rjejr Oh boy , I mean that it's a fact that Zelda U doesn't use the GamePad in a special way that cannot be replaced by a regular controller according to what was shown at E3. Of course, they could change that but I don't see how this adventure could use the GamePad in that special way unless it is used for mini games. When I say special I mean that, because it's not really special to use the GamePad for aiming with a bow or using the inventory, is it?
@ThanosReXXX Give me a break! You're definitely wrong about me. Everybody says I'm lovely in person. On Nintendo Life I just want to say my honest opinion about the video games industry, but I'm not trying to please everybody. Sadly, I think we'll never agree which is bad because you're polite.
@rjejr It's not that I don't understand. It was just a misunderstanding and I hope it's clearer now after what I just posted. But yes, it's unfair dealing with both of you text wall writers at the same time on my mobile phone.
@rjejr Back up the truck there, grumpy. I have my hands full already on people misreading me and/or being negative, so I would expect friendlier treatment from you...
Or wait, what was it that you said to someone else in the comments section a while ago? You weren't a negative Nintendo fan, just desperate, disappointed? Or what was it? Can't quite remember...
Anyway, I always feel (as you might already know by now) that we look upon Nintendo with our "way too Western" eyes, and try to label all their behaviors in that fashion because apparently, it's the only way it makes sense for us gaijins because we either really can't understand the Asian culture, politics and way of thinking or we simply refuse to. Hence most of us thinking they're arrogant, obnoxious, archaic, hypocrites and what not...
A year or so ago, I wrote an entire wall of text in some other article in which I elaborated upon my own personal business experiences with both Chinese and Japanese people, and although I won't recount that entire story here, suffice it to say that from my own experience they are the single most dedicated people that I have EVER met, alongside some people of India that I once had the pleasure of working with.
These people work harder, are WAY more respectful to each other and to their job, employer and business partners, and because of that take a lot more pride in their job and would, nine out of ten times see absolutely no honor in lying to anyone about it, let alone their customers. It literally is without honor, and failure is certainly not taken lightly, even though it might seem to be so to the outside world.
Even as recent as the early nineties, people in management who failed at their jobs were still falling onto their swords, either literally or by committing suicide in another way, so that should at the very least tell you something.
So, in conclusion, I don't expect Nintendo to be dirty liars, cheaters, blame displacers and what not. That's just us not understanding a still VERY traditional Japanese company. Do they need to get with the times? Hell yes, and better today than tomorrow, but I have some hope with Kimishima at the helm and so I am cautiously optimistic that we will see that happen in the next 12 months to come.
Oh, and leave @Kirk alone; we're in agreement now and he's an okay guy. Misunderstood maybe and a bit too skeptic for his own good sometimes, but one of the good guys nonetheless. And he writes good stories...
@VanillaLake Oh dear, AGAIN: that's why I said I FEEL like you are or you "come across as". (you must have missed the "You're probably nothing like that and maybe in real life we could easily go for a pint or two" part)
But none of us can objectively say how we come across. It is all up to the interpretation of the people that read our comments.
That's like people from Guinness saying we should drink Guinness because they are the best...
I did already say I could be completely wrong about you, same as you are about me, so we're kind of in agreement on that point already, again...
And we don't have to agree all the time, that is nigh on impossible, unless we have the same opinion, lol
And you know, that's no disaster either. People agreeing all the time would be a hell of a boring world to live in, but what I do always like to be able to achieve, is giving people a broader view than just their own. And I'll take theirs in turn, if it contains enough substantial arguments, obviously...
All simply because opinions aren't facts and we can all be right or wrong at any one time. I just don't and never will understand people that aren't willing to budge either way.
It's almost like having a fixed set of principles and not deviating from them no matter what: I always learned that it's only smart to hold on to your principles as long as they are working to your advantage. Once they start working against you, you simply have to adapt and probably need to take up some new principles and/or ideas along the way...
Anyway, no harm done as far as I am concerned, just some slight annoyances on my part concerning the misunderstandings going to and fro, but that's water under the bridge now.
Have a nice evening.
Oh, and as for me and @rjejr pestering you on your mobile phone: give us a heads up next time and we'll wait until you're sat behind a PC or laptop...
@ThanosReXXX All I was doing was asking you a question - Do you think people will ever hold Nintedo up to the standard of taking some responsibility for their own problems? They were the ones who built the Wii U and told everybody it would have dual Gamepad support, and then they couldn't figure out how to make it work. The software designers literally blamed the hardware designers, even though it's the same company. Nobody at NTnedo ever said - we screwed up, we should have put more horsepower into the Wii U. And they should have had a working phsycics engine 3 or 4 years ago when they built the hardware. And they should have known in Dec 2014 it wasn't going to be ready in 2015 if they knew from the start it was going to be a dula release on th eNX which wasn't coming out until 2017. Even if NX was planned for a 2016 launch we were told twice Zelda U was releasing in 2015. Almost nothing they say ever holds up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny.
Just b/c people work hard doesn't mean they aren't incompetent, sometimes people have to work harder b/c they are incompetent.
Unless you were replying to a different post, in which case I have no idea what's going on.
@rjejr "pestering?" Guy needs a silence button. I blew off email for almost the entire weekend, and every night from 7PM to 7AM. People are only pestered if they let themselves be.
@VanillaLake Well aiming w/ the gyro has nothing to do w/ the screen if it works like Splatoon. Don't confuse using the Gamepad - mic, camera, gyro - and using the screen, that's 2 different things. I think a lot of people - not you, just people in general - get confused when they say - "the game isn't using the Gamepad" - when what they really mean is - "the Game isn't using the screen."
And when you say - " I mean that it's a fact that Zelda U doesn't use the GamePad in a special way that cannot be replaced by a regular controller according to what was shown at E3." - I still think you are wrong based on the VIP demo. If the Gamepad screen displays a map that lets you touch were to put a beacon, that is special, unless you can walk up to your tv, touch the screen on the tv, and have the beacon show up their on that map. Yes, you can probably use the right stick or the left to move to a spot on the map and press a button to put a beacon there, but that still isn't as simple as touching the screen in that spot. Well maybe for FPS players who can aim better w/ a mouse than a controller, but for most people touching a spot with a fingertip is easier than trying to move to an exact spot w/ a stick. So our defintions of "Special" may differ, but if it is something you can do on th eGMAepad that you can't do on the Pro controller, well then by it's very definiton it is something you can do on th eGMapead but not on the controller, making it special by almost any definition of the word "Special". But it still wouldn't be a fact b/c "special" would still be open to interpretation.
You can say it's a fact if the screen is used or not, but you can't say it's a fact the screen isn't used if the screen is used but you don't like how it's used. The screen is used, or not, fact; you deciding it's special or not, opinion.
@VanillaLake Get a phablet, problem solved.
Just dawned on me you may have no idea where I am coming from. Well I spent 2 full days trying to tell people the Zelda U map had been removed from the Gamepad, and everybody kept telling me I was an idiot. Until they found out I was right. Now they just ignore me.
I don't disagee w/ you, I was just trying to give you fair warning about using the word "fact" around here. You don't have to clarify an opinion, but telling other people "facts" will only bring endless debating. Case in point...
@ThanosReXXX My hero. lol
@ThanosReXXX I did not say that you were assuring that, I was just clarifying that I'm friendly. I agree with that whole comment, but don't you honestly think that the ones that you are describing are those that get mad, insult and tell us to stop posting whenever we criticise something about Nintendo? On Nintendo Life, at least.
I don't mind if we don't agree about something because we respect each other and that's the way it should be. I genuinely thought you were trying to make others think the way you do but I believe you if you tell me now youd don't. That's why I disapproved your intentions. All clear now.
@rjejr I did not say that any of you were pestering me! About tablets I don't like them very much but sometimes I use the GamePad for browsing (but not for writing). The best device is laptop. It's a fact.
Now did I say fact? Yeah I did for you.
@rjejr Oh my dear... Well, I did not mean only the touchscreen. Aiming with the gyroscope in Zelda is nothing really special but aiming with the Wii Remote is (I talked about it earlier). What you mentioned are shortcuts or different ways of doing something but it's not that different from using a regular controller. It's a fact that what I saw at E3 can be done with the pro controller... but I cannot say that about Nintendo Land, Maiden of Black Water or Super Mario Maker. Even Star Fox Zero could be played with a regular controller if Nintendo wanted to. Now please accept my comment because I'm going to sleep soon...
@rjejr Okay I won't use the word fact. By the way, when I say that aiming with the Wii Remote is special I mean that it's a really different and intuitive way of aiming, while using the gyroscope is like moving the thumbstick. I missed your comments about the Zelda map but I'm glad that you agree with me @JaxonX is very disappointed about Zelda U not using the GamePad for anything... special.
@rjejr Talking to yourself now I see? (comment #229)
And yes, of course Nintendo f*** up, I have criticized their marketing strategy more than once, and for good reason. And like I said in one of my previous comments, they DEFINITELY need to get with the times already, and they certainly having some issues that they should long since have solved. If need be with outside help, if they can't accomplish it by themselves.
But all I was really saying (in a REALLY elaborate way) is that I don't attribute as many negative/evil/malicious characteristics to Nintendo as you seem to be doing (gotta be careful with my words here nowadays, right?) or you're just really disappointed at the moment and that shines through in your recent set of comments.
So there, hope that clears things up for you, library tai-chi guy...
@VanillaLake Oh, rest assured, I would never tell you to stop posting, and I would always prefer people to think for themselves instead of mimicking others, but (obviously) that can sometimes lead to some heated discussions.
As long as we can get through that relatively unscathed and in a respectful manner, then you're okay in my book.
You know, maybe we should have those pints some day. No Guinness though, I positively hate that stuff...
@Kirk Well, it's about time that someone said something positive about you again. Everybody needs a pick me up from time to time...
@ThanosReXXX @Kirk I love Kirk's posts, too He says whatever he likes or not about the industry with strong reasoning and perfect argumentation. He is not the only one but he is one of the best. But don't get too cocky now...
If all posters here were hypocritical Nintendo fanboys I would get sick of Nintendo Life and everything Nintendo. I would still play Nintendo games but alone and embarrassed LOL Reading intelligent and coherent people gives me hope in Nintendo's userbase. Sometimes it's easy to see why we Nintendo fans have such a childish and bad reputation even though the worst are often over 30 years old (with 5 years-old minds).
@ThanosReXXX No problem but I do like Guinness. I've been in Holland, I love the country but beer is soft and bland...
I think that @rjejr, @Kirk and I are all quite disappointed with some things about Nintendo but I think it's easy to understand when you compare what they have done in the past and what they are doing recently. It doesn't mean that we don't like Nintendo but we surely have a critical spirit which is not a bad thing actually. I think you Thanos are extremely benevolent and understanding with Nintendo!
@VanillaLake Yeah, I must be getting soft in my forties, heheheh...
All I was seriously shocked about this generation was the horrible marketing campaign that the Wii U had, but I have never entered this generation of consoles, so I could also easily sidestep all the related irritations that came with it.
I'm still quite content with my "Wii360" combo and because of me starting my own company, I also haven't really done a lot of gaming anymore, both due to lack of time and of money, most of which I had to invest in my company, so first I have to save some cash up, and then I will probably buy the NX as well as a Wii U and an Xbox One. Not really a fan of Sony's...
As for the beers over here: you must probably only have drunk the standard brands then. I've been living and working here for so long now, I've come to know many types of Dutch beers, in all their various strengths and flavors.
Over here in Amsterdam they even have an establishment that's called "The Beer King" (in Dutch obviously, but I thought the English name would be handier... ) and they claim to have samples of 1001 kinds of beers available for tasting.
Now I don't know if that is actually true, but suffice it to say that by tasting what they DO have to offer, you can get pretty hammered already, and that is just from small sample cups, so go figure...
@jobunker I think you fail to see the complexity and fluidity of the new title... There is a lot of stuff going on and from my experience with open world games, the new Zelda looks very polished and exciting. You can't seriously think that Nintendo makes every game with your vision in mind. They do what they want, Nintendo is a brilliant company and they make great games that actually feature gameplay at it's core. The gameplay elements change all the time. This new Zelda is straying far from the past decade of titles.
@VanillaLake When you said JaxonX did you mean JaxonH? Jax isn't disappointed about anything. Well except censorship, we all have our triggers. I've left him alone the past few days to chat w/ you and Thanos, I'm going to go see what he has to say.
@ThanosReXXX tai chi is over, insurance ran out so no more 40 minute massages from my favorite redhead.
But as I promised you last night, my proof that I do see Ntineod does things right. Case in point - their handheld focus.
Many people still see Ninteod as the NES/SNES company, but they've really taken on a handheld focus. While home console sales kept dropping, with the exception of fairly priced Wii Sports - Wii Fit Home Gamercise Machine, they've done better on handhelds. Gameboy was really w/o peer. DS exploded, and 3DS, for all the talk of mobile, is still on pace to sell 60mil, and that's great in a smartphone world. Sony's Vita showed it isn't easy.
And when 3DS faltered out of the gate, it received a very quick very steep 25% price cut. Nitneod knew they couldn't fail on the handheld front. And to all those people who bought a 3DS at $249 they said to them, we are sorry, here's a bunch of Ambassador games to show that we did make a mistake and we apologize. And when people complained that 3D hurts kids eyes, they came out w/ a 2D model. And over the past 2 years Nintendo has dropped the 2DS MSRP from $129 to $99 to $79, b/c they know that in order to sell things, you need to continually lower the price. And when 3DS hardware got long in the tooth, they released the New 3DS (OK, naming dept still needs work). And on the games side 3DS got 1 of Nitneod's best home console exclusives SSB. And a port of XC, 1 of the best JRPG I've ever played, maybe the best. What home game has been a great 3DS port? Not Pokemon, Pokken is a spin-off. MH on Wii, and a port on Wii U, but no new MH games on Wii U. Which is of course Capcom, not Ntinedo, but MH keeps 3DS going while Vita falters. Nintendo moved Luigi's Mansion - 1 of my favorite Gamecube games - to 3DS.
While there may be some fault w/ the 3DS game selection - AC HHD and MP:FF - I'm almost certain AC HDD was better received than AC:aF, and MP:FF may be on par w/ SFZ.
What this shows is Nintendo does know how to run a company. New hardware, new hardware upgrades, new games, good ports, price drops - the 3DS Selects selection is better than Wii U and came out earlier. But for whatever reason, they just don't seem to treat the home console business as well as they do their handheld. Its' almost as if 2 different companies are making the decisions. Nintendo is 80/20 on their handheld and 20/80 on their home. I'm a home gamer, hence the animosity.
Tell me how Splatoon couldn't run perfectly fine on the Pro Controller. Taking away the nonsense motion aiming, which almost everyone disables immediately, what else couldn't be effectively remapped to a pro controller.
Nintendo has spent the entire Wii U generation trying to justify the GamePad's existence and worth. This was also the case with Splatoon IMO. Think: Star Fox Zero. Same deal.
@rjejr "But as I promised you last night... "
I must have missed something, because I can't remember us having that discussion, or this comment wasn't meant for me.(?)
But either way: I can understand where you're coming from, especially if you're not into handhelds. And animosity is a big word, it came across as overly negative or exasperation or whatever label you want to slap on it, and these last few weeks I've seen that becoming more frequent with you, where before you were still kind of laid back in that respect, if you know what I mean.
Seems like all the rumors and no official news finally got to you (combined with all your local political annoyances I guess... ) and made you a bit more cranky than your usual old-man-on-the-lawn self...
I do agree with you about Nintendo as a company knowing full well how to run a company, but then again: I am always trying to convey that message across every comments section that this topic pops up in, mainly from the "Asian vs Western thinking" point of view.
And I am somehow (don't ask me how, just a gut feeling) moderately confident that they are going in a completely different direction as far as how they will treat the home console this time, and mainly because they will have to now, since the first system coming off the assembly line will be a home console.
And the two companies, or rather: departments, are now combined into one, which to me is yet another hint that software will be interchangeable between systems, and the reason why Nintendo claims to have more titles ready for launch than with the Wii U, so it should be feasible to have it all work out for the best, but as always, only time will tell.
Take your holiday, leave those useless worries behind, charge up the old battery and come back with a smile on your face. And by then, we'll be yet another step closer to official NX news.
Now what could be more intriguing than that? (just in case: rhetorical question... )
@ThanosReXXX I posted this last night -
(Everything they screw up at home they seem to get right on portable, but that's tomorrows post).
So today was tomorrow, and that post was the 1 in my head last night but didn't feel like typing out until today.
Oh, and I most certainly have been crankier the past few weeks - 2 kids graduating - trying to divide up 5 tickets between 7 people, planning lunch/dinner for each, 12 people over for Father's Day, summer vacation coming up w/ my sister and sister-in-law so trying to coordinate that. Stressful times. And I've only been getting about 5 hours of sleep per night but I need 8-9, so I'm constantly mentally exhausted and physically tired. So yeah, I've noticed. I should be good to go in Sept. Then I can start job hunting, I'm sure that will cheer me up.
@rjejr Ah, okay. I feel you. So if being cranky is what lightens the burden, go right on ahead, I can take that into account now...
Job hunting, aye? So, what line of work are we talking about here?
@PlywoodStick actually, ZombiU is still the best use of the GamePad.
Nintendoland was a glorified tech demo, that failed IMO. ZombiU was an established genre (FPS and survival horror) and slipped in a dual screen experience to fantastic results. The XB1/PS4 equivalent is a downright drab experience in comparison.
@ThanosReXXX Good to know... Well, about you getting softer, let us be more critical then. I have all consoles of the current generation (except Vita) so I have lots of experiences to share.
@rjejr Yeah I mean @JaxonH (I was on my phone and I could not double check). He told me he was disappointed about Zelda U not using the GamePad in a proper way. Hey, Jaxon, are you there?
What are we talking about...
@gatorboi352 You say 'almost everyone' disables the motion controls, but that simply isn't true. According to the developers over 70% of players use motion controls. Also, how would we jump to points on the map without the second screen? You'd have to pause the game (not a great idea in an online shooter)
@JaxonH "What are we talking about..."
As much as I'm usually off topic you can't possibly expect me to remember that.
Oh yeah, Vanilla told me you were disappointed about something and I told him you don't do disappointed. Except for censorship.
Sooooo.... nothing important. Gotta go, in-laws are here, it's my sons graduation from middle school in about 30 minutes and we haven't had dinner yet. You are on my priority list though, for good or bad.
@VanillaLake Well, since I don't have any current console, there wouldn't be much sense in us comparing or discussing, I suppose. And I'm not about to discuss old games...
Also, don't really feel the need to be more critical. We all have our tastes, likes & dislikes and I feel I'm critical enough as it is.
I don't play or buy every game, so I do choose selectively, except not this gen since I haven't had the time or the extra cash to dive in. But that's fine by me since it's just a hobby. For some (not you, in general) it almost seems like a way of life which is probably what makes them so ferocious when discussing certain things.
I'd laugh about it, if it wouldn't make me so sad that this is the current state of affairs with the majority of today's "gamers"...
Actually, I'm disappointed about a great many things on a regular basis. Given most of the fanbase rages at any given opportunity, you could be forgiven for assuming anyone not regularly bombarding the comments with disgruntled rants doesn't actually feel disappointment.
I think it has more to do with "appropriate response" than anything else. Video games are just my hobby. Stuff like the gamepad not being used in Zelda definitely disappoints me, but it's not something I'm going to rage about for the next 9 months. It is what it is and there's nothing I can do about it. Complaining to no end will only serve to ensure I stay miserable. Happiness is a choice, after all.
And that applies for most things that aggravate or disappoint me.
With that said, ya, I wanted that interactive map on the gamepad. And there's really no good reason for omission.
@ThanosReXXX What I suggested was that you let the rest of the people be critical about the gaming industry, specially when they are actively taking part in it by buying and playing current consoles - something you said you do not. Being critical as a customer is a good thing. I am understanding with people but, as a Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony customer I want my voice to be heard.
@JaxonH Thank you for coming. That's exactly what I told @rjejr and I totally agree with your comment #257.
@VanillaLake Ah, okay. When you said "let us be critical" you meant you and the others. My bad. Anyways, still was an okay discussion even though we (once again) couldn't come to an agreement.
It's kind of funny to see that you so wholeheartedly agree with @JaxonH's comment, since I do as well, but I specifically agree with the part where he truly hits the nail on the head about people just going on and on about things and the uselessness of that behavior.
If something that you don't like happens, it's okay to be critical and vocal about it, but not for weeks or even months on end, like he said.
(Kudos for that, @JaxonH, my sentiments exactly. People need to know when enough is enough and when it's time to leave well enough alone. Then again: this is the internet... )
It more or less pollutes the comments section and saps the joy out of visiting the website because a lot of us want to talk about the nice things we're getting too. This is after all a fan site, not a complaint site.
Mind you, I'm also not partial to blind fanboys either, like for example those of the the kind that would say that even Nintendo's farts smell lovely, but I guess you get the picture by now...
Everything in moderation and with an achievable purpose, as my old mentor used to say.
Being too much of anything is never good, unless you're a sportsman or an athlete and you're the best...
Just because I'm not a current gen console owner, doesn't mean I'm not taking part in the community, young man. I do happen to own a 3DS XL. I forgot to mention that one...
Idk, I understand when certain news breaks emotions can get the best of people. I still remember when I was fooled by a fake "FE Fates censorship leak" that said marriage and children were removed, and I started a forum topic screaming with smoke puffing out of my ears. I was not in my right mind (deleted ASAP when I discovered it was a prank). If anyone ever calls me on it I will adamantly deny it was me
So ya, I get it- stuff can aggravate you, even piss you off or enrage you. Especially with games you care about. But after that initial emotional response I calm down. What I see with a lot of others though, is they never calm down. Day after day- mad as heck about the same thing, venting on every article over a span of (in some cases) months on end.
That is what I don't understand. Or, conveniently and coincidentally becoming emotionally enraged over practically any and every possible complaint one could muster. Almost as if some are just looking for any excuse they can seize to manufacture outrage.
Sometimes, that stuff grates on me to the point I get the urge to debunk (what I perceive to be) people taking advantage of every negative situation as a guise to propagate discontent and outrage out of envy/spite/disdain for a said platform.
Which... basically stems from a fanboy mindset- as I said the other day, the fanboy coin has two sides- those that are so fanatical they defend everything out of blind loyalty, and those that are so fanatical they slander at every opportunity out of blind hatred for a company- sometimes people don't even understand why they feel such animosity toward a platform- if they search their hearts it's probably just jealousy stemming from an insecurity)
I think there are many legit instances where the complaints of the fanbase need to be heard by Nintendo (forced gyro in SFZ, no main Metroid, better VC, desire for a return to RPG Paper Mario, less censorship, etc) all of which I would gladly join the cause. But I don't feel like griping about it every day. Like with #FE, I ranted the first article when I discovered the censorship, but after that it'd be nice to discuss the game, rather than have every comment section derailed into the bottomless pit of discontent.
Sorry for the long post guys, just had a lot to say about this subject
@ThanosReXXX I never said such a thing and I never said what you should do. I only said that there's no need to condemn every critical comment (which is what you apparently do), specially when those people are actively taking part in the industry (I said industry, not Nintendo Life community) by buying and playing current consoles. That makes perfect sense to me: I buy, I say what I like and what I don't like. It does not mean that I don't enjoy games. I do and I could tell you my favourites of the generation, but I could also give you a list of disappointing and mediocre games of this generation. Sadly, the Nintendo games on the disappointing list come in a larger number than previous generations, as Nintendo's quality is lower than ever.
I agree with @JaxonH about the poor use that Zelda U makes of the GamePad, but I also liked that he said that he is happy with the game so far, because that means that he can criticise while not dismissing something, which makes perfect sense to me, as I also like and support some games that have a number of flaws. For what I've seen, the things I don't like about Zelda U/Breath of the Wild are about its performance and slightly disappointing visuals. There's no need to condemn my opinion (not talking about you) because I don't blindly praise everything about the game. I will buy the game so I'm not rejecting it, but I have some concerns, nevertheless. Perhaps, once I get the game, I will post a critical opinion on the review's comments section, but it would not mean that I disapprove the game, and that's the point of a comments section in the first place. You said "it is a fan site, not a hate site". The way I see it, it's just a Nintendo or a gaming site, and the comments section is to say whatever you like or not about the different games. Expect some critical opinions from me once I have played the game, but I will probably like it and tell the things I enjoyed, too. People consider that I'm quite objective.
I'm playing now Grabbed by the Ghoulies on Xbox One and that is a perfect example of a imperfect game that one might love. It plays great at 1080p 60fps and I love its artistic design, but the game is not without its flaws. Do I enjoy it? Yes. Is it perfect? No. Is it fine if I criticise its flaws? Yes. Same for any Nintendo game, even though Nintendo zealots (not talking about you) would get mad like usually.
@JaxonH "the fanboy coin has two sides- those that are so fanatical they defend everything out of blind loyalty, and those that are so fanatical they slander at every opportunity out of blind hatred for a company".
That definition is great. I have to write it down!
EDIT: Good night, it's late!
"will buy the game so I'm not rejecting it, but I have some concerns, nevertheless"
This is why your opinions are always welcomed. Calmly stated and not taken to extremes (game is perfect and nothing wrong; game is complete and utter garbage).
If everyone voiced complaints in this manner, N-Life would be a far more enjoyable site.
@VanillaLake Holy cr** man, I was trying to conclude our discussion, not prompt you to write another wall of text, which by the way, yet again stems from a misunderstanding of what I said.
But first things first: let's not mince words, you DID say let us be critical, or to be exact, and I quote:
"Good to know... Well, about you getting softer, let us be more critical then."
So I forgot one word in quoting you earlier, but forgetting what you yourself said is worse...
And you misunderstood me understanding you just fine about the actively taking part in, since I told you that I may not have a current gen home console, but I AM an active part because of my 3DS, and obviously I full well understood that you didn't mean the NLife community. Give me some credit here man, 46yo experienced IT Sales guy with an actual brain here...
But good to see that you still agree with @JaxonH, since he is right once again (@JaxonH and great post, buddy, never mind the length of it, it was a good read) but it honestly is somewhat odd to me that you do seem to get him straight away and while I am of nearly exactly the same mind, whatever I say seems to work like a red cape on a bull with you, and that puzzles me to no end, since I always try to keep things cool and collected, and these kind of miscommunications for no reason really drain my energy and do nothing whatsoever to improve my mood...
Anyways, I bid you good night. And good luck with the football matches, since all the Irish are through to the next round. Cheers.
"Red cape on a bull with you"
Yikes. If that's the case I hadn't noticed. I usually enjoy reading your posts. I can't remember half the stuff I type though, so if it seemed like that to you, know that it wasn't intentionally.
I play devils advocate sometimes too just for the sake of good debate
@JaxonH No, no, my friend I wasn't talking about you but about our other discussion partner. I was simply wondering how you and he can get along so smoothly while I seem to be finding myself in more than one fruitless discussion with him at times, even though I'm pretty sure he's an okay guy, from reading your exchanges with him and most of his comments in general.
This was actually the only part of that comment that was meant for you:
"(@JaxonH and great post, buddy, never mind the length of it, it was a good read)"
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I'm beginning to think it must be my writing skills/text formatting that gets me into all this trouble for no reason...
@JaxonH Thank you very much for appreciating my contributions. At least, you do and understand me.
@JaxonH " I wanted that interactive map on the gamepad. And there's really no good reason for omission."
I just want some clarity. And not what passes for Nintendo clarity, where they just say things that makes sense only to them. I got carried overboard, away, washed out to see and into the Land of the Lost where I was befriended by future Sleestak Enik who told me even he doesn't know what Nitneod has planned for the Gamepad in Zelda U.
You used the word "interactive", but the map will be interactive, I think, when we pause the menu, you can still touch the map on the Gamepad, so that makes it "interactive". But it won't be "real time", like we had in WW HD and XCX. Well maybe it will and maybe it won't b cE3 had 2 dmoes, 1 with the map, 1 w/ only instructions. So it's 'always very confusing I and do get crazed when I get confused. So it's not the lack of interactive map, or real time map, or nay old map, it's the conflicting demos and reports. I'm pretty sure you can give Reggie, Anouma and Trinnen the same exact question and get 3 very different answers. And that drives me crazy.
And of ocurse on top of all that confusion, there's sitll the matter of "Why" they took it out. Anoum asiad it was "distracting", but he put it in WW HD an dTP HD, and in this game, so why take it out? I fthey took it ou tb/c the Wii U can't handle open world + real time map, well just say so. If they took it out b/c they realized the Wii U version would then be better than the NX version, well that just stinks for Wii U owners. If hey told us what the NX was that might help. We KNOW NX is getting Zelda Wild, we know NX is getting Just Dance 2017. But we don't even know if NX has a 2nd screen. How can we have 2 games coming out on a console we don't even know if it's a home, handheld, handheld w/ TV out or home that's portable.
So yeah, I went overboard w/ the "map", but not simply b/c it was removed, but b/c I don't know if it was, or not. And the game was supposed to come out last year and we still don't know how it works, or doesn't.
@ThanosReXXX Are you bad mouthing me again? Jax and I get along b/c we we are both smart guys who see things the opposite way - glass half full, glass half empty - but we know the reality is there is still the same amount in the glass. So we can discuss the facts of what is in the glass w/o letting our emotions dictate the conversation. OK, my, emotions.
"If something that you don't like happens, it's okay to be critical and vocal about it, but not for weeks or even months on end, like he said."
I just explained this in the post above, probably should have cc'd you on it, but between the - what, 4 of us now? - you Jax Vanilla and I - I kind of lost track.
Are we even discussing the game any more or just discussing our discussion of the game?
@rjejr What the... ?? No, man. I wasn't talking about you either. Damn, I must have landed in the twilight zone or something, this is really exhausting, all these misunderstandings. I was talking to VanillaLake and JaxonH, so when I mentioned that to Jaxon, I obviously meant VanillaLake. You weren't even a part of what I said there. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.
If it was just a joke, then your timing is a bit of, because I'm REALLY frustrated by now because of a bad workday and a whole bunch of people misunderstanding me across several sites and articles.
I'm going to take a break now, get something to eat. I need to calm down a bit. But if you want to have some fun in the meantime, go and visit the N64 article, dense people are making stuff happen there...
(might be that some of @JaxonH's sensibility is needed there too, so you're invited too, J)
@ThanosReXXX "because of a bad workday and a whole bunch of people misunderstanding me across several sites and articles."
Welcome to my world. Well except for the not having a job part. And people usually mad at me b/c they do understand me and the fanboys hate that all my negativity is occasionally correct.
I'm having a good day for a change, my kid was in the top 10 out of 400+ kids at his 8th grade graduation, so that was a nice surprise. And my other kid got a patch today for being top half of the math Olympiad team along w/ his band and chorus participation certificates. Kind of sort of justifies my existence as a home maker, which is nice. And the Father's Day party went over well.
Going to be out the rest of the day eating celebratory steak diner, and I'll pass on the N64 article, never liked that console, worst controller ever, still can't wrap my mind around it's creation.
Eat, drink and be merry.
@rjejr Well, congrats with the kids. Always nice to see them do well, I'd imagine. I've calmed down already, so it's all good...
@JaxonH I can agree on that, so many games outside of nintendo had really grabbed my attention as of late, albeit some being indie, Undertale, Hyper Light Drifter and Team Ico games. What made the first two grab my attention was how different they got there messages across, heck with drifter you weren't entirely sure what the message was.
@Syrek24 how do blind do you have to be to not see that Nintendo sold out the Wii U Mechanics for switch sales?? it's really pitiful.
As a day one Wii U owner, people like you are the reason Nintendo does what they want. Blind obedience never led to anything good.
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