Rumour: Smash Bros. Update 1.1.6 Only Seems To Impact Bayonetta

This is a witch hunt.

@Marce2240 Best comment ever

Here's the changes if anyone is interested: http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-6-patch-notes-patch-discussion.436806/

Some pretty heavy nerfs.

TL;DR: Some of her moves now have smaller hit boxes, more ending lag, more/less knockback, and deal slightly less damage. So basically, it's harder for her to combo now.

leave Bay alone!!

seriously, instead of moaning how a character is "op," why not just improve your strategies around that character??

Good she deserves to be nerfed. She's hated in my groups of friends that play smash so we were very happy to hear this. Such an annoying character.

@Chandlero I try.

I don't play the game in any competitive capacity, but I can already hear the complains claiming that "Bayonetta was never OP and that this stupid nerf was just a response to whiny noobs who should just 'git gud' and learn to play against her."

Which of course, will be deeply hypocritical, because the source of their frustration is the very fact that THEY need to 'git gud' to continue playing with her at the same level.

EDIT: Comment #4 posted before I could even finish my post. I guess that's something of a case in point.

@CharlieSmile Nothing wrong with balancing a broken character.

@FierceRagnar

"It is all the non-Bayonetta players who are the problem. They need to 'git gud'. They are not 'gud enuf'. Why can't they just get gudder? Why does Bayo have to be nerfed when she's not the problem!?"

"Why can't you just 'git gud' at the new Bayonetta?"

"WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO GIT GUD, I AM ALREADY GUD ENUFF, IT IS THEM WHO SHOULD BE GITTING GUD NOT ME!!!"

I would rather have my replays than balancing of a character I don't even own.

Good, she needs a buff.

Okay, fine. But where are the buffs for awful characters? Seriously.

Did they censor her? /jk Seems Nintendo are doing a lot of that lately.

Bayoneta amiibo should unlock her old stats, problem solved, since nobody in a competitive tournament is going to be using amiibo. Well unless it's an amiibo only tournament, but her amiibo self could be nerfed, only the FLC Bayonetta could get the boost, problem solved again.

@Damo So, no mention of the missing Bayonetta amiibo in an article all about Bayonetta in SSB, you're slacking.

How does guy have access to the files before they're even available?

I'm just glad Nintendo is listening to the competitive community for a game like this... hopefully Smash 4 will remain relevant in fighting tournaments for a long time to come.

@PtM

Or how about the various Fire Emblems, Xenoblade Chronicles X and Project Zero: Maiden of Black Water?

Maybe the Spanish spicy... speople (for the sake of "sp's") will finally feel frustrated (I swear I'm not doing alliteration on purpose) a bit less.

@Damo
You should let @AlexOlney mentor you in the art of lamepunnery.

Well, that's a shame, but I can agree with the nerf.

I'll still be Bayonetta though.

Sacrificed my replays for this witch. I'm not really a fan of her anyway. Not really her play style, but just as a character in general.

@PtM It's not BS, it's a FACT!

Buff ike
Also keep calm and join the ike smashers master race.

i still heart bayo.

I'm disappointed that, yet again, my replays are gonna be nuked (but now it's only a balance patch for one little character).

@LegendOfPokemon Cheer up, this the most likely the last patch due to the fact Bayo was the only one changed and no one else.

Darn. I thought maybe the patch was going to switch her out and replace her with the character that actually won the fan poll.

@Captain_Gonru They can call it - Super amiibo Mode - and pretend they aren't ripping off Dragonball, like they always do. Though Sonic is the one who does super saiyan.

@Vandy lol prove she didn't win it first idiot 😂😂

@andrew20 I'm an Ike main too. 😃

@Zombo

Go find the info yourself. It's all out there if you really wanted to know who won. Several different people have compiled the true metrics of the poll.

Maybe after this, Bayonetta won't be banned from tournaments anymore?

@SLIGEACH_EIRE A YouTube video about localization which has zero understanding of the issues involved and plays into the reactionary narrative is totally worth my time. Thanks for the link. I'll get right on that.

@Vandy She WAS the one who won the fan poll, amongst realizable characters.
Shrek never stood a chance. Sorry to burst your swamp gas bubble.XD

@smashbrolink

Nice try. I see you blindly bought into Sakurai's bias.

Snake, Wolf, Shantae, Shovel Knight and Inklings all ranked higher.

Does that mean you also believe him when he said that his "development team" practically had to break his arms to get him to add more Fire Emblem characters?

@PanurgeJr You're welcome. There's no issue though, it's just Nintendo overreacting. They as do I completely understand what they're doing.

Radiohead's first single from their new album was obviously anticipating this moment.

I'm just surprised and somewhat happy that months after the final dlc, they are still patching and balancing the game (1.5 years now). Can't say that for Brawl or much for other games I played.

Well since I don't play competitively, I probably wouldn't notice or notice a tiny bit like with the other past nerfs and buffs.

In the words of the great Street Fighter announcer - PERFECT.

@Vandy And where exactly are you getting this information? The data for the official ballot isn't public and would have had to have been leaked, in which case it would have been spread around quickly. Fan polls are not the same thing and are not representative of the actual data.

@IceClimbers

Someone did an exhaustive mining of votes from every fan poll they could find on the internet. Reddit, GameFAQs, youtube, etc and compiled the data from there. They even included comments on message boards about who people are voting for.

He even separated the data into NA, Japan and Europe. It was quite an impressive feat.

So unless people suddenly decided to completely change their minds right before voting in the poll, this was a pretty damn good representation of the true fan votes (seeing as how they've conveniently decided NOT to reveal the actual votes).

Bayonetta hovered between 9th and 13th place on all of the polls.

Top leaders of characters were Snake, Wolf, Shantae, Shovel Knight, King K. Rool, Inklings and Roy.

Too bad. I really enjoy playing as her, and as a casual For Glory player, I never had too many issues against her. But I don't play her for her power, I play her because I like her as a character. That's why I play Wii Fit Trainer, that's why I play R.O.B., and that's why I'll keep playing Bayonetta.

@Vandy I refer you to Alex's video.

Banned Blocked Nerfed Turded we all saw it coming

@RealPoketendoNL

Funnily enough, that very video's Nintendolife article is where I provided all of the links and evidence to back up the fact that Sakurai just picked her because he felt like it. Can we all stop pretending he actually cares about the fans' opinions?

Or do you sincerely buy the excuse that people demanded Corrin be added to Smash?

@Vandy Excuse me? I'm sorry, but Sakurai cares a lot about the fans. Sure, we got Bayonetta, but look at some of the other characters that made it into the game. Little Mac, Pac-Man, Mega Man, heck, even in Brawl Sonic mainly made it in due to the outrageous fan demand. In fact, DLC wasn't even planned for the game until it was finished. And when they did decide to do it, their first character was Mewtwo, because he knew how much fan demand there was for him.
He's very dedicated to what he does, and his goals are always to give the fans as much as he can. Ever since Melee, each subsequent installment of Smash has taken more out of him. During the development of Melee he had no holidays and cut-short his weekend to put as much of his time as he could into the game, all because he wanted to give the fans as much as he could give them.

Sure, Bayonetta wasn't the absolute number one, but there are things to consider here. Not everyone posts their opinion online. I don't care how many polls you pulled together, that still doesn't represent every voter. There are many that may share their vote on regional sites, or maybe don't share it online at all! Sakurai said it, she was the absolute number 1 in Europe, and in the top 5 in North America. He wouldn't just make that up, so clearly your polls don't represent the majority.

Also, he never stated Corrin was added due to fan demand. I'll be honest, when Corrin got announced, I was a little salty too, but you know what happened? I GOT OVER IT!!! Instead of still crying about it after 5 months I just accepted that Corrin was in, and instead enjoyed the characters that did make it in that I liked. Instead of whining for half a year that your favourite didn't make it in, how about you just appreciate what he has given us? The roster consists of 58 characters, and all of them took an incredible amount of work to put in. Don't tell me you don't like any of them. No, my votes didn't make it in either. And yes, I wish they did. But I learned to appreciate what we got, not be mad about what we didn't get.

They nerfed her hard. Which I totally agreed.

Though it seems from the videos that she isn't bayonetta anymore.

But hey, hoping they changed her play style so she doesn't have those inescapable 0 to death combos.

@Vandy I'd like to refer yo to these famitsu columns translated by source gaming: http://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/26/sakurai-on-character-choices/, http://sourcegaming.info/2015/12/23/496/, http://sourcegaming.info/2015/07/09/megaman-villager-wiifit/ They explain a lot of the reasoning behind Sakurai's character decisions, including Corrin and Bayonetta. Sakurai had his own doubts about there being to many FE characters with Corrin, and also wasn't sure if Bayonetta could work while maintaining the E10+ rating (or international equivalent). And I personally believe, since there's absolutely no source that can prove or disprove the results of the official ballot, that most of the characters that people expected didn't do as well as the internet made them out to be since in a democratic process, a silent majority will always beat a vocal minority.

@RealPoketendoNL

Haha wow, I had no idea I was dealing with such a Sakurai fanboy. My bad, I won't shatter your image of your deity.

@ASonic3582

A quote from the only link that isn't a broken article:

"if I cannot meaningfully distinguish them from other characters, or create fun unique characteristics of the characters, then that’s the end for them"

And yet we still got Marth, Lucina and Roy. Carbon-copy characters with only minor variations.

It all comes down to whoever Sakurai decides he likes best and how he's feeling on that day. I don't for a second believe that the development team shouted "add more Fire Emblem characters" while Sakurai sat back saying "noooo, perish the thought! I couldn't do that! Come on, you guys!"

@Vandy Sorry about two of the links, I put commas to separate them but that accidentally put them in the links. http://sourcegaming.info/2015/12/23/496/ http://sourcegaming.info/2015/07/09/megaman-villager-wiifit/
Also in regards to Marth and the like, Roy in Melee and Lucina in Smash 4 (along with all other clones in both games) were added simply due to the fact that they had extra development time and compared to the other fighters, a clone takes significantly less time. Roy was brought back to Smash 4 since he was the most requested cut Melee character after Mewtwo.

@Vandy About that quote of unoriginal characters, there are reasons for all of them. Roy made it back in due to fan demand (again) and Lucina made it in because she was originally going to be an alternate skin for Marth (like Alph for Olimar), but they decided to change her up a bit and turn her into her own character. And no, that didn't take the spot of another character, because even Lucina, Dr. Mario and Dark Pit combined would take way less time to develop than any new character they could've added in, especially since their models were already done.

And about Sakurai, well I'm sorry for respecting a man who works this hard for the fans of his franchises. He did what he could. You can respect that, or you can keep on crying.

But in all seriousness, let's just stop this useless discussion. This is a comment section on a news article about patch notes, and we're cluttering it with a useless discussion about Sakurai. I, and many others, like Bayonetta, you don't. That's fine with me, more power to ya. But I for one actually appreciate the huge amount of work he did for this game, even if he didn't make it exactly the way I wanted it. You can do that too, or you can keep on crying. It's up to you.

@ASonic3582

"Roy was brought back to Smash 4 since he was the most requested cut Melee character after Mewtwo."

According to what data? Sakurai's word?

If we're going to discount the exhaustive data scraping that the guy made collecting fan data, then I'm certainly not going to accept Sakurai's word as proof. Show us the data and I'll buy it.

@RealPoketendoNL

See this is the thing. People have made him out to be some sort of god.

He always whines about how taxing making Smash Bros games is and how it "took a lot out of him" and "this is going to be my last, I can't handle it anymore".

Look him up on Wikipedia and you'll see that the amount of games he has worked/contributed on is minuscule in comparison to others in the industry.

While he may work hard on some aspects of it, he's not the programmer and he has a decade-long break between some of the series. I'm not feeling sorry for him. I feel sorry for his development team who are the true unsung heroes of the franchise.

He just walks up to them and says "I want Gonad from Fire Emblem in the game. And make sure he's a swordfighting character. Make it happen. Phew, I need a nap!"

@Vandy Wow, you use internet polls as an argument for your Ballot argument, yet you seemed to have completely missed the 'Roy's our Boy' that has been everywhere on the internet ever since he was cut from Brawl?

@RealPoketendoNL

And I have no problem accepting Roy as a character. The fans have been very vocal for him and voted for him to be in. No problem.

It's Bayonetta who's supported by the silent minority. And all of a sudden she's "the most requested".

@RealPoketendoNL @Vandy going off RealPoketendo's point, there were a lot of people on the internet asking for Bayonetta pre and post disc release, but knew the chances were slim since age rating stuff. And on every fan poll I checked (about 20 or so), there was only a list of a certain amount of options, like Inklings K.Rool and the like, and Bayonetta was almost never on them. Also Roy was added before the ballot

@Vandy I'm not saying Sakurai did all the work. Of course I appreciate all the other developers just as much. However, you're the one talking completely down on him, while he still does a lot of work too. I don't think he deservers all the praise for the entire series, I really don't. However, you're heavily talking down on him, and I don't think he deserves that either. He still does a lot of work, just as much as the other developers. He was still the one who had no holidays and cut-short his weekends to work on the game. He takes a lot of responsibility for a lot of things that happen during the game's development. Does he do everything by himself? No, of course not. But I still believe he deservers to be recognised for all the effort he still puts in, rather than just get scolded because he didn't include this or that particular character.

But I'm stepping out of this discussion. Like I said before, This is a comment section on a news article about patch notes, and I don't want to clutter it with a useless discussion about Sakurai. I, and many others, like Bayonetta, you don't. I respect you disliking her, I'm just hoping you can accept she's in and can accept that we do like her. She was number one in Europe, and in the top 5 in North America. You can refuse to believe those numbers all you want, I do believe them, and that clearly shows that she was heavily requested by that silent 'minority'. Go hate on her all you want, but I do like her, and that's my final word in this discussion.

Let's just get back to the patch notes. Even though I really like Bayonetta, I can see why she would get nerfed. I just hope they do buff some of the weaker characters as well, since I some of my other favourite characters, like Wii Fit Trainer and especially Palutena, could really use that.

@ASonic3582

So going off of that information alone, you're suggesting there was an overwhelming write-in campaign for Bayonetta votes? I get that you're trying to justify this, but even you have to admit how absurd this sounds. Sakurai chose her because he wanted to. That's really all this is and everything we know about the guy would suggest this to be true. He likely skimmed the list of names from the fan polls and said "hey, this could be an interesting one to create. we'll just say she placed first in Europe to justify it."

Which begs the question of why would you even bother having a fan poll in the first place if you're not going to take it seriously?

That's like holding a presidential election and Joe Q. President wins the vote, but then someone just says "well, we like Johnny Johnson better and would enjoy working with him more, so we're going with him".

@Vandy I've presented my argument, points evidence etc. But long story short, there's no point in this argument anymore and I'm out of this talk. she won and she's been out for months, if you don't like her don't buy her, that's the best advice I can give

@ASonic3582

Well, we cannot confirm if she did win or not. There is absolutely no concrete evidence provided that she did. In fact, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that she did not.

But seeing as how you refuse to accept that fact, then yes, we will have to drop it. I have not and will not buy her anyway, so there's no problem there.

This should make Bayonetta less annoying to deal with, hopefully. She should still be a good character (and by that I mean she should still be around the top of most tier lists, high tier at lowest), but as long as she's less annoying to fight, I'll be fine.

....sees comments, leaves -.-

I don't closely follow the Smash Wii U scene but as I understand it at no point was Bayonetta dominating tournaments left and right, but there was a massive outcry over Bayonetta being too powerful after that previously unheard of Smash community in Spain decided to ban Bayonetta.

I hope this makes her less annoying to fight. I don't hate her, but she's pretty much the only character in Smash to make me actually want to rage quit a match. xD

I think that since bayonetta was so op everyone had to develop anti-bayonetta skills and now that everyone knows how to deal with her and she is being nerfed, she will go from top tier to very low tier.

@Marce2240
Props..

@CharlieSmile maybe that's because she was broken. after a week of her being released, some guy won a tournament with her. saying "get good" isn't a reason for her to not be made fair.

@Vandy Hahaha, god call!

@Vandy No.
No they did not.
In Europe, and overall worldwide, Bayonetta was the No.1 amongst all realizable characters.
The only reason you're saying Sakurai lied about this is because you had characters you wanted more; that doesn't make you right and it doesn't make Sakurai a liar.

I expected Bayonetta to be involved so this doesn't surprise me.

I hope this is true. She's so OP we've basically said we don play her in our group of friends. Her moveset is so huge it doesnt even feel like it fits the game.

Screw learning the matchup and how to sdi, complaining on the internet is a much more effective method for handling and overcoming this nonsense.
Get rekt bayo mains.

Now that bayo is no longer a problem, time to escalate Cloud and ryu as the biggest problem to the smash community.

@PtM I haven't found myself whining about the recent bout of censorship yet, but it's starting to get annoying. Nintendo's image would improve a lot if they stopped worrying about it so badly.

@smashbrolink

Show me the proof that Bayonetta won.

Oh wait, there is no proof. Just Sakurai's word. Meanwhile, I can show you hundreds upon hundreds of examples where Bayonetta wasn't even on anyone's radar.

I don't even care that she was included, it's more to the fact that the fan poll was a total sham.

@smashbrolink @Vandy
"Realizable."

There's little doubt that Shovel Knight and even King K Fool were the top 2 candidates and the top voted for overall. Bayonetta was popular no doubt, but the majority of people wanted the likes of SK and others more. Which is why he said "realizable."

In truth anyone could easily be made into a character (some more difficult than others aka Ridley, King K). Characters like SK/inklings are "realizable." It's just what sakurai wanted and felt like doing. If she was top voted overall, why not just say so outright. Its a simple way to avoid backlash and upsetting fans. Only so many can be made into characters and he choose her for whatever reason along with corrin for promotion.

I doesn't matter too much in the end. She's a nice addition to the game regardless of her ranking and I'm just pleased to see added content. The roster has over 50 characters which is WAY more than what i would've expected pre release. Although I still hope Shantae will make it in maybe when NX is revealed.

But come on sakurai, hurry up and give us an actual tourney mode that doesn't suck >_< (The online mode is a joke and its saddening to see he was too lazy to have a proper offline mode.)

@SLIGEACH_EIRE you re complaining about lin outfits being censored and the boob sliders really those have no effect on the game it self and fates the only thing they censored was petting wafus and some same sex marriage scene maybe you should play the beach dlc that wasnt censored

@Vandy Except it wasn't, and it's the logical choice to accept the word of the guy who was most likely to have SEEN THE ACTUAL RESULTS.
And for every internet comment you can show that didn't include Bayonetta, I can show you just as many where Bayonetta WAS asked for, amongst realizable characters.
Without the official numbers to read out ourselves, however, there's no evidence OTHER than Sakurai's word to prove or disprove it, so asking for evidence is silly, since his word is far more trust-worthy than anyone saying "I've seen all these votes for all these others in comments, so she can't possibly have won!". -_-;;

Again, just because you can't accept Sakurai's explanation doesn't make him a liar, nor does it make the poll a sham.

She was the top pick.
The creator, of all people, knows that better than anyone here does, and has absolutely no reason, nor gain, to lie about it.
She won the poll.
Accept that much and move on from it; maybe the NX version of Smash will host another poll and you'll get someone you actually want to be included.

I am currently BAN from the general public of online play of smash bros Nintendo wii U. Look up smash hell! Apparent ANYONE can report you online (for any reason) and some one from Nintendo or a third party will ban you! Freakin Nintendo is so stupid! If you're a good player and 3 stick a person they can report you and get you ban, and I've heard it lasts for months!!!! I thought this new update would due away with this stupid banning but aparent not. Freakin Japan must of did this cause NoA doesn't know squat about it. Ya system isn't that perfect and just one of the few games I enjoy and taught myself how to okay I can't play it??? No one told me I was ban neither for how long, it just randomly happened!!!!! If I get unbanned I'm scared to play now, do something about this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@smashbrolink

Whatever you need to tell yourself to keep Sakurai up on the golden pedestal where you hold him.

You claim his word is far more trustworthy than "some random guy". The random guy happens to be a respected member of the Smash community who had no preference whatsoever towards anyone winning the tournament. He just dedicated a lot of time to researching and compiling data to come up with the results of the poll for the sake of information. He had no vendetta.

Meanwhile, Sakurai turns around and says "ha ha I didn't want to add more Fire Emblem characters but my development team locked me in a freezer until I agreed to do it! Those cads! On an unrelated note, here's an essay about how much I love Corrin... but it has nothing to do with his inclusion. Nope! Blame the developers!" He has EVERY reason to lie. He needs to justify including all of the characters that HE thinks are cool in spite of what anyone else wants because he hopes to avoid the backlash. Why else do you think he went out of his way to deflect Corrin's inclusion onto his development team?

You can't show me the supposedly overwhelming data that Bayonetta won the poll because she didn't. The data doesn't exist. We just have to blindly trust Sakurai's word just because.

@Vandy No, Sakurai really doesn't.
And his love or hate of Fire Emblem characters have no relation to Bayonetta winning the poll; that's just a ridiculous stretch.
Also, if he were afraid of "backlash", he would have gone all out to include the top three from the poll regardless of whether or not they were ridiculous.
Again, Sakurai has NO REASON TO LIE about this.
He doesn't NEED to justify anything to you or to anyone; it's his game and the poll was already a massive service to fans in the first place that he was under no obligation to even CREATE.

And as to the random "respected smasher", his research and compilations are still nothing more than assumptions, and not official numbers.
We don't need the data to show that Bay won the poll; we KNOW she did, because SHE'S IN THE DAMN GAME due to winning it!
Not because of some invisible whim conjured up by a bunch of hate-filled straw-man arguments regarding Sakurai's biases, but because SHE WAS THE MOST VOTED UPON OUT OF THE REALIZABLE CHARACTERS.

You really just need to get over this hatred of Sakurai; it's not his fault that someone you like more than Bayonetta didn't get in.
She won the most votes out of all characters that were actually realizable for the series.
THAT'S THE FACT OF IT.
Whether you can accept that fact or not doesn't change matters.

No one here is placing Sakurai on any sort of pedestal, because there's no need to.
We're just telling you how it is; a bunch of randoms on the internet have far less of a clue about the official poll numbers than Sakurai, and that puts Sakurai's words above theirs whether you can all accept his words or not.

Bayonetta DID win the poll, and she's in the game because she won.
THAT'S THE END RESULT.

@smashbrolink

"Realizable".

You've really, really bought into that word. That was the key word of his excuse.

Well, you're right. All I can do is look forward to the NX and see which characters end up on that version of Smash.

I can't wait to find out that over half of the roster was cut and in its place are brand new characters to the series like Sakurai, Sakurai Sr., Gramma Sakurai, Sakurai's dog, Sakurai's neighbour, Noodle Cart Man (he works down the street from Sakurai's office) and 16 more swordfighters from Fire Emblem. But it would make sense, because they're probably just the most "realizable". I mean, you try thinking of unique movesets for legendary video game characters with rich libraries of games dating back to the '80s.

@Vandy Again, you really need to let go of that hatred you've got for Sakurai.
Yes, realizable.
As in, Shrek couldn't get in, no matter how many people voted for him.

And if a character was realizable, then Bayonetta, overall, got more votes than them.
Sakurai would have chosen Shovel Knight if he had been voted way over Bayonetta in total worldwide, because that's a realizable character, too.
But he wasn't above Bay in votes.
Nor was any other character.
The word "realizable" was not an excuse.
It was a condition.
One that you have to learn to accept if you ever hope to move on from this unreasonable straw-man's argument-turned-grudge that you've got against a poll that your choices obviously didn't win in.

Bay is in because she won the poll.
If you're going to blame anyone, blame the people that didn't vote for your most desired character, but quit heckling for no valid reason.

@smashbrolink

You speak as if you've actually done your research into this. Did you not watch the announcement video where they basically explained that she won by virtue of Sakurai rejecting the rest of the characters? I would think not, given your hard stance that she "won". I think the official results also said that she "won" in Europe only. So North America and Japan certainly didn't vote her at the top.

You are absolutely convinced that such a niche character won this poll that it's become amusing. I actually think you would believe it if Sakurai put out a video saying "well golly, it's the darnedest thing, but my cousin Elron won the poll by a landslide thanks to write-in votes! Elron Sakurai is added to Smash!" But we're not getting anywhere with this, so you can keep believing what you want to believe and I'll believe the factual evidence provided, rather than heresay from Sakurai.

@Vandy The ones that were rejected were either not realizable or were not above Bay in votes.
That's not heresay; that's facts.

You can keep saying that Bay was "too niche to possibly be the winner" and presenting straw-man arguments with weak "evidence" all you like, but it doesn't make it any less of a fact that she won the polls above any character you yourself wanted as far as characters that were realizable, especially within the time-frame they had to come up with good move-sets, for them outside of easy specials, and the deals they were able to make with their owners.

So you go on believing that Sakurai was BSing us with the poll all you like.
I'll go on believing the fact that Bay won that poll fair and square, through the votes of people that truly wanted her in after her appearance on the Wii U with Bay 2.

@smashbrolink

A huge surge in popularity and a massive write-in campaign from enough people who "truly wanted her in after her appearance in Bayonetta 2"? The sales numbers of the game would argue otherwise. It's a niche character from a niche game.

As for your part in our little discussion here?

Accuses me of using straw-man arguments by offering data mined exhaustively over months and gathered from dozens of sources.

Presents a giant straw man argument of "because this guy said so".

Any character can be realizable, he is a game developer, especially when we have the dang duckhunt dog and game&watch in. Bayonetta was not the most voted realizable candidate.

And clearly, stating shrek and goku are not realizable characters, its common sense. No one who voted for them actually believe they would make it into the game. And the amount of people who wasted their vote on them is the same amount of people who enjoyed smash tour. Bayo mightve been around 5th overall but she is not the majority vote.

@RandomBlue Wow, another brilliant comment!! You sure have your finger on the pulse of the gaming industry. Most impressive! Good work kind sir.