The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess HD has been out for about a week now, and it is certainly the definitive version of the game. Of course, one aspect of it that has somewhat split the fanbase is the fact that it primarily features button controls, as opposed to the Wii version which had an increased focus on motion controls. Interestingly enough, it seems that the Wii Remote controls actually were almost included, according to a recent interview.
Eiji Aonuma and Tomomi Sano recently talked with Famitsu about the HD remaster, and one of the questions brought up was whether or not Wii Remote controls were considered. It seems that the motion controls made it about halfway through, but ultimately were replaced in favor of an increased focus on the GamePad display.
Aonuma: We had a debate as to whether to use Wii Remote controls or not until the middle [of development]. However, the style to display the map on Wii U GamePad is very comfortable, and [it] can also use gyro controls for the Wii Remote bow aiming, so we ended up focusing on the GamePad.
Sano: Twilight Princess has vast fields, and also many dungeons with complicated structures, so the style where there's a map right on your hand and playing while looking at it came off nicely.
For the full interview, check it out here; there's lots of interesting backstory on how this version was developed.
What do you think? Would you rather have had the Wii Remote controls included? Share your thoughts in the comments below.
[source nintendoeverything.com]
Comments 142
So glad they scrapped waggle controls and gave a representation of the Gamecube version
Gamepad/gyro controls is SUPERIOR on this type of game.
The lack of Wiimote controls is straining my interest for this version. It was one of my favorite parts of the Wii version. I don't need a map at all times.
Honestly, I never looked at the map on the gamepad. I found leaving the item menu up at all times more useful so I just looked at the map on the TV.
Wii remote controls would have been good for me. My gamepad started playing up awhile ago, so it loses connection to the console whenever it's more than 2 metres away and whenever it's moved a lot. Sure I could still use the gyro controls but it kept dropping out.
went to the game store the other day for the amiibo to go with the digital dl of this game but they didn't have it. they did have skyward sword tho'. i know the official revised timeline isn't required but i'll follow it anyways and that's the first game listed.
the motion controls are alright so far and i can't see why they can't use similar for the gamepad. maybe i haven't gotten to the point where it wouldn't make sense yet. danger of losing grip of the gamepad maybe? nothing an adjustment in sensitivity can't fix.
Can't say I'll miss the Wii controls, if it wasn't for the fact that I lost my Game Cube copy (and wasn't able to find a decent replacement at a reasonable price) I would have never gotten the Wii version of Twilight Princess.
The HD version being based on the Game Cube original was the biggest selling point for me, the cleaned up visuals and other improvements were just icing on the cake.
@G0dlike if you look at the upper right hand corner of each individual post, you will see the post count number. i believe that you will get one platinum nintendo point for how high that number is until you get the first Vamecube joke. good luck! hehe.
drats, edited! cancel the direct, reggie!
Game pad is way better,I use map all the time,skyward sword was frustrating at times beautiful game though
Disappointing, they could have included both
Regardless of which you prefer, I don't see why they couldn't just include both.
If they had both everybody whould have been happy!
@Jamotello Skyward Sword uses Wii motion plus so the motion controls are somewhat more advanced than in TP.
I'm so used to the old controls with the wii mote I am finding being the wolf a bit harder than the original. Why they couldn't of given you the option, I dunno
Such a shame it wasn't implemented. Both TP and WW felt a backwards step compared to the motion control in Skyward Sword. It worked really well in that game and I feel made the experience more enjoyable - particularly the last bit of the game when you have kill 100s of the red baddies.
TP's wiimote controls were not good for anything else than aiming. They literally mapped the GC A button to a waggle motion. It doesn't matter how you move it. Skyward Sword controls would have been too much effort to implement and wouldn't really have a place in TP since it wasn't built around that.
The part of the Wiimote controls I'll miss the most is the shield controls. They gave a really physical feeling to defense in the game.
I only bought it to play it as originally intended. If it was just a HD version of the Wii game with it's flipped game world and forced motion controls I'd have stayed well clear.
If this was the case, I would not of bought it again.
I still feel i should of bought the Gamecube version first time round.
I hate motion controls so I'm glad this didn't use it. However I do think for those who like it, would've been nice to include the option.
However to anyone saying this and Wind Waker is a step backwards, I don't know what you'll think when Zelda U launches as it's pretty clear to me that Nintendo are moving well away from Wii controls now.
Anybody know if the GamePad gyro is used for the fishing game?
While flicking the Wii remote to swing your sword always felt tacked on, using the pointer to aim your bow whilst on horseback was pretty great, I thought. It's nice if the GamePad let's you do the same thing, though with a different feel due to the size and shape of the thing.
I just hope they don't remove the motion control from any future versions of Skyward Sword, seeing as the game was built around it.
They should had just included both.
They should have just made both an option, which I actually thought was the case at first. It would have been better because it would make people who have played it on Wii, GameCube or now for the first time on Wii U, all right at home. I personally always really liked the Wii controls.
I wouldn't have mind if they had. As long as gamers have the choice.
The motion controls of TP for the Wii weren't the worst. You could still slouch on your couch while playing. It was Skyward Sword which was really annoying. It love that game but I HATED IT for forcing me to sit upright and be more or less precise with the motion controls.
I like the fact it's the original non mirrored version. That makes me want to play it again.
I'm shocked people actually liked the tacked-on waggle controls of the Wii version, but I guess I shouldn't be...
I would like to have it. I never minded the motion controls and really loved to play with my hands apart. I found the position much more comfortable than grabbing a gamepad for several hours.
I'd rather use the right stick to aim over motion controls. I don't mind motion aiming, but only if it's enabled when a button is held down. I wish Splatoon would give you more control options in this regard.
Fair enough I guess
I don't think it is a bad thing to give players more options on how you can play the game. I personally would have at least given it a try, even though I'm sure the gamepad would easily be my preferred style of play. I still haven't even picked up Wind Waker HD yet!
I find it strange that there was no mentioning by Aonuma that a Wiimote implementation would result in the player having the Wiimote in the left hand (for standard mode)? The map is a nonsense argument, since the Pro Controller is supported.
The one thing I miss the most about the motion version is the fact you could just shake the nunchuck and the spin sttack would happen directly then you needed to wait about 2 seconds before using it again. Now, while I wait for Link to position himself for the spin attack, he is open for attacks by the enemies...
Should of had both. I really enjoyed the Wii mote controls, swinging the sword felt great.
@Detective_TeeJay
Get over yourself. It was a simple addition. All they did was utilize the pointer and map the sword to a button that happened to be a waggle. I'v beaten every official Zelda game besides Spirit Tracks, and i really enjoyed them.
@Fidu It totally mattered how you moved it. jeez, either you never played it or have a foggy memory.
I really enjoyed the motion controls on the Wii Version and on Skyward Sword where they refined them to perfection!!! Aiming for Bow and Hookshot worked a dream as well as the sword slashing! It seems they evolved motion controls into something credible with motion plus, then they go backwards yet again! Fair enough, not everyone appreciated it but to not even include the option is a kick in the teeth and prob why I won't purchase the HD version!
Thank God
Actually, I read here or elsewhere it was Wii Remote compatible a little before it launched. I'm not a fan of waggle motions but a third control option would have been welcome and the programming was already done, for those that would care about the Wii Remote.
Also, it's not that wonderful to have the map on the GamePad, I prefer having it on the screen I'm always looking at, like on Mario Kart 8. This is just what Nintendo says about the GamePad every time they don't know what to do with it, to justify themselves, not talking about this remaster but the new Wii U games developed from scratch.
Good. The gamepad feels like it was made for these kind of games. It's usage feels so natural
I'm happy they left out wiimote controls, not because of the fact a map or items can be displayed on the gamepad. It's just that I'm not very fond of the motion controls...
I don't see why Wii motion controls couldn't have been an option. I prefer the simple button pressing, but it would be nice to be able to mix things up every so often.
"but ultimately were replaced in favor of an increased focus on the GamePad display."
Which is expectedly mediocre. It's not even as utilized as WWHD either. I played a few sessions with the GP and quickly shifted over to the Pro controller. The GamePad is very much a disappointment to me for gaming, unless it's Off TV. And even then who wants to play beautiful HD games on a 6 inch 480p screen?
If the Wii U has taught me anything, it's that I don't particularly enjoy looking at two separate screens when I play video games. Star Fox looks like an absolute no buy for me due to this.
Here's hoping NXs controller is some Elite version of the Pro.
The argument about wanting to have a map on the controller is moot when there's an option for the pro controller. I wouldn't want them to focus on wiimote controls exclusively, but there is no reason why the option had to be removed. There are definitely some aspects of the wii controlls I prefer over the gamepad.
im not a fan of the motion controls. have the cube version and wii but have only finished the cube version. glad they went with the gamepad.
People always focus on the "waggle" and they're right to say that it was just a button press. A button press that was sometimes more natural (i.e. fishing) but still a button. But the thing that was great about the WiiMote in Twilight Princess were the pointer controls.
Now the GamePad can do a better job for map and inventory. It can even do a decent replacement of the waggle controls. But it's nowhere near the pointer controls even with the gyro. Not even close.
Lame excuse is lame.
Weak excuse is weak.
Translation - We wanted to do it, but it was too hard, so we came up w/ this lame excuse instead.
They had both versions, Wii and Gmaecube to work with, the code was already there, all they had to do was include both options. Splatoon has the option for both Gamepad gyro or buttons. W101, for all the talk of it's use of the touchscreen, I never touched it and used the right stick instead.
Nintendo is getting so pathetic these days.
AC:aF - a board game that didn't even include a real AC game
Mario Tennis Ultra Smash - 1 arena for a tennis game
Zelda U is taking much longer than they said
New club Nintendo is taking much longer than they said
Miitomo is taking much longer than they said
Let's hope they do much better with NX.
I like it better when Nintendo doesn't make these decisions for us. I mean, I'd probably still be playing with the gamepad, but make that the default and let us try it the other way too. Better yet, go all pikmin 3 on this bad boy and give us four or five control schemes even if half aren't ideal.
That said, the gamepad controls are great. The aiming using the tilt sensors in the gamepad is super smooth and I like it way better than the Wii remote felt in 2006.
So long as it was optional to use either the Wii controls or the gamepad ones, I don't see why it'd hurt. The Wii version is the one I got as a kid, and neither back then nor when I replayed the game last summer did I have any issue with the controls whatsoever.
I can't understand why Nintendo didn't just include Wii controls as an option. Would rather not play a long game with the overly large gamepad.
I'm hoping they'll patch an update at some point like they did with Pikmin 3, would buy the game if they did.
They could've included wiimote controls, it didn't have to be an either wiimote or gamepad decision. Especially since their so-called reasoning is because they wanted to include a map in front of the player at all times & yet they enabled the pro controller to work with the game. I was kinda looking forward to playing TP in HD while slashing at enemies with my wiimote. Pressing the button to attack after experiencing the wiimote motion controls for swordplay is kinda boring...
I hate to admit this...but I kind of miss motion control sword fighting there is this delay when you press the buttons that I dont really like right now...it feels so bad compared to how fluent Wind Waker's combat is.
@rjejr Well my friend, it seems that all this election business is making you a bit more grumpy than your usual angry old self...
(P.S. Still waiting on an answer in that Ubisoft/Vivendi takeover thread...)
Is the ability to have options just too time consuming and difficult for Nintendo?
Thank god it didn't. That's what screwed up Wii version.
@rjejr That logo is quite brilliant!
The Wii version was waggle. No need. But if they somehow take motionplus off a Skyward sword release in the future the tide will run red with blood.
@Sakura I'm glad somebody invented it, all the other "please understand" memes had Iwata in them, and while I may be a cranky old man, I do have respect for those who have pased, and I won't be remembering him that way.
The game would have been great with proper motion plus controls a la Skyward Sword but that would have taken effort and that's clearly not what TP: HD was aiming for.
@Detective_TeeJay
"I'm shocked people actually liked the tacked-on waggle controls of the Wii version, but I guess I shouldn't be..."
I'm shocked people actually have opinions. (Winnie the Pooh snicker) though seriously, I did enjoy them, so the little bit I played of TPHD before I left town felt a little weird because I'm so used to the Wii controls.
@rjejr perhaps since it was such a quick project, they didn't have time to include the motion controls in Nintendo's defence. Also it was outsourced, so I don't know how much that comes into play. That said, Wii is almost literally a souped up Wii that was a souped up GCN, so it does baffle me they didn't include it since like you said, they had code for both. Unless the code between the two is that radically different.
@TheRealThanos I may have woken up crankier than usual this morning. But just wait until next week, after I lose an hour of sleep this weekend, all my hatred will be unleashed.
Every morning I check for some Zelda U or NX news, and every day it's TP HD, a port of a 9 yr old game treated like the 2nd coming.
I'll look into that old thread. Eventually.
The Wii and its motion controls were stupid. Anyone who liked them is a scrub.
@BlatantlyHeroic
@Sir_JBizzle I'm guessing it was less a coding issue than an implementation issue. Do they make Link right-handed again if you use motion controls? I'm guessing that's all it really came down to. They wanted left-handed Link and that was that.
All this effort, all this work, all these interviews and marketing and news and tweets for a port of a 9 yr old game, that if you have or found a copy of the Wii version it would still play in your Wii U.
Sony spent a considerable amount of time promoting the Uncharted Trilogy on PS4 over the holidays due to the Uncharted 4 delay, but at least that was 3 games for the price of 1, and U4 has always been the main story. Where's Zelda U? WW HD was supposed to be the lead in HD port for Zelda U, we really didn't need another lead-in HD port while Zelda U went into hiding. All of this TP HD coverage is just disguising the fact that Zelda U is a year late and we know nothing about it.
There were some major bonuses to having wii remote controls IMO it was much much easier to use the bow on horseback with the remote and I'm absolutely gutted at how much better the fishing game was on the wii version. I like the HD update but I do miss the pointer controlled aspects and wii remote noises. I know many feel very differently but I would of welcomed the option. On the other hand the game pad screen is fantastic, really love that feature.
I don't think it'll be missed. If anyone wants a motion-controlled Zelda experience, Skyward Sword does it a thousand times better.
@rjejr Ahhh but we do know something about it...
-We can ride a horse!
-Pretty moving grass!
-Mountains in the background!
A curse for me. I want to buy it, but I kind of rather just play the original with Wii remotes, even if it's not HD. Pointing with the Wiimote is way better for me than with the gamepad. The only thing I did not like about Wii controls is the shield attack, which ~50% of the time fails because the nunchuck's sensors suck.
@rjejr ...And also that it's eventually coming?
@Sir_JBizzle I have to admit, I did like the moving grass. Honestly it's one of the first things that jumped out at me from the original trailer. And then the giant attack robot showed up and I forgot all about the grass.
Oh, and we also know that it's delayed. And I don't even want to know what that photo is from.
@rjejr remember that commercial for Zelda II: The Adventure of Link way back in the 80's?
https://youtu.be/E-qBkWerZDg
Though when I was slapping the meme together I was actually looking for a screenshot from ad 1:
https://youtu.be/teB2xkUw3bI
Edit: oops sorry mods for that typo! Not sure why my keyboard didn't spell screenSHOT! Lol
I suppose Wii Mote controls could've been an option, but I definitely prefer GamePad (or Pro Controller).
I find everyones sudden rage over the lack of motion controls to be humourous. New system, new controller. That's really all there is to it. Any additional schemes are a fun bonus.
No one gets upset when their Dualshock 3 isn't compatible with any PS3 ports on their PS4. Don't see why this should be any different.
@WiiLovePeace
I agree. This is my favorite Zelda and I'm still not motivated to buy it. Major bummer that they didn't include the motion controls from the Wii version. They could've easily pulled a Pikmin 3 where you can use the Gamepad for the map and Wii remote and Nunchuck controls for primary movement.
@Indielink
A bonus that should've been included. When you consider that the Wii version grossly outsold the Gamecube version by almost 5 to 1 combined with the fact the Wii U has the Wii's motion technology built in so there's really no justifiable reason to leave it out.
Also, Playstation controllers have had the same button layouts for how many generations now? Not exactly as drastic a difference as playing with a Gamepad vs. Wii Remote/Nunchuck.
Say what you want about the 'waggle', aiming with the Wii Remote was absolutely brilliant. Especially when using something like the bow or, even better, double hookshot.
I don't even know if I could play the game without pointer control.
was very pleased to hear they dropped em'. the motion controls in TP were never anything but a hindrance.
Disappointed that it doesn't support GameCube controllers though :/
Thank God it didn't!!
I would have liked the option but it would have been a step backwards after skyward sword...yet too cumbersome for them to put in skyward sword controls. What would be the point if the hitbox on the enemies is the whole body instead of certain points like SS? Honestly though, the gamepad with inventory and map has ruined me on any other type of control scheme for Zelda games.
@gatorboi352 6 inch 480p whitish screen, actually.
@rjejr Well prepare to get crankier then. It's a 10 year old port.
I think an option for both would have made this like the complete version of this game, having both the Wii and GC control schemes and flipped maps as an option.
Oh well, better luck when 4K Remasters become a thing.... XD
@Angelic_Lapras_King Who knows, maybe then they might put some effort into it.
@Kevlar44 I've had it for years and the last time I played it was about three weeks ago. I also thought it mattered but it doesn't. You think it matters because you want it to. Try it yourself.
@BlatantlyHeroic for a moment there I was really tempted to change my name to TheRealScrub...
@Sir_JBizzle Wow, I knew people were doing a lot of drugs back in the 80's, at least that's what they tell me, I don't remember I was busy drinking too much, but that is just awful. I had to stop it 7 seconds in.
OK, the 2nd ad was good. Are we sure that first one wasn't an SCTV skit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbXfrZt-6pw
I really don't think it split the fanbase.
I've been playing the GameCube version for 10 years. If Wii motion controls was the only play option, then I would have skipped the game and continued to play my blurry GameCube game. If they included both, great for the Wii fans, but I would continue to only use the traditional controls.
@Manjushri
How did i contradict myself?
@Fidu
Of course it matters, press forward and you stab, press to the left and you do a side slash to the left, so on and so forth.
@Kevlar44 Not in Twilight Princess. I'm serious, try it. Or if you can't, at least look it up.
@Kevlar44 @Fidu
In order to strike in a specific direction with motion controls in Wii TP, you'd have to "waggle" in conjunction with the analog. So for a stab you'd have to hold up on the analog and then "waggle".
But whatever, Link's sword slicing animation is pretty quick so "waggling" with the remote still provides a sense of immersion. Not on the level Skyward Sword superb controls but enough for me to prefer motion controls over traditional controls for TP.
@Manjushri
I suppose i get what you mean but It's still just a button, no different than a joystick. Is it it really that hard to waggle it in a slightly different direction? Regardless it's easier than i thought...
@Fidu
Apologies i think i may have been wrong, you use the control stick in conjunction with the waggle. It still feels really fluid and i'm guessing when i played i just did what i wanted to anyway naturally. It's certainly more dynamic than just pressing A.
@Kevlar44 Not a problem. My immersion was broken when I found out how it works and couldn't stop thinking about it, so unfortunately I'm unable to enjoy the Wii version nearly as much anymore.
Why does it have to be either/or. If motion controls were in there during half the development why not just leave them in AND offer the GamePad controls. Each time you boot it up it could ask "Which controller scheme do you want to use".
Done!
Serious... not including the older wiimote was nearly the stupidest thing Nintendo ever did... C'mon...
First they had the wiimote, which gave sword-fighting at least some more realistic feeling. Then the released the WiiMotion+ which was supposed to improve sword fighting...
And now you have to push buttons to fight... Like I am controlling some robot or drone, instead of having a sword fight.
Aiming the bow seriously is a drag.
I played the Wii version of Twilight Princess at least 4 times. I was eagerly waiting for the HD version, and the LE and 2 xtra amiibo's. Went home, started the game... And wow!!! Somehow the new graphics seemed to love my TV. I was stunned...
Until I had to fight... I almost accidentaly launched the Wii-U gamepad through the room, while I started my first sword fight.
I progress slowly, cos I have a lot of work to do, but despite the lame controls, I managed to finish the Goron Mines. Using the bow was a nightmare. Aiming is nearly impossible, and feels like those terrible build-in mouse-knobs you see on some older laptops...
I doubt if I am ever going to finish TP HD. I really feel like reverting back to the original...
imho a huge fail of Nintendo...
To be honest, the waggle controls for sword and shield play weren't that great to begin with. They were novel and exciting in 2006, but later on felt like an afterthought (which they were since TP is a Gamecube title) and even a bit arduous. The button controls are so much quicker and more convenient
The IR aiming on the other hand is great and I rather aim with motion controls than a stick. In this case too the Wii U GamePad takes the victory, since it's motion tracking is more accurate and not tied to the Sensor Bar. You don't have to point at the TV. You can activate aiming in any position and it'll make that the zero point.
The added benefits of the GamePad screen make TP HD the definitive version thus far.
It's a shame there's some graphical glitches (weird shadows at times; a few mushrooms didn't have smooth shading) and slip-ups (some textures are not HD, for example the bed and blanket where Colin is laying after he saved Beth; some places have lazy texturing; especially striking are some out-of-place looking rock walls in Goron Mines). They really show that this was a rather quick and low budget effort. The HD remaster is mostly really solid, but it could've been more perfect. In any case, I'm enjoying playing it again immensely!
@Muckypup "Using the bow was a nightmare. Aiming is near impossible, and feels like those terrible build-in mouse-knobs, you see on some older laptops..."
You do know that you can aim with motion controls on the Wii U GamePad too..?
@Moshugan Yes, thanks... I do know that... And that part is what makes me feel like the old mouse-pointer on laptops (in the middle of the keyboard).
And right, the original controls may not have been perfect, but just moving your arm when swordfighting is at least much closer to swordfighting, than pushing a button is.
@Moshugan
Dude, that's just your opinion. Some may share your opinion but it's still just an opinion. I just popped in TP for Wii 2 days ago and I just can't picture myself without those controls.
And as far as anyone finding the motion controls "arduous" = you need to make peace with the fact that you were simply not gesturing properly. The movements required to active sword swipes and aiming were minimally subtle and shouldn't exert any type of fatigue or strenuous activity.
Gamepad motion aiming is cool but I still prefer the Wii remote. Again, just my opinion
@AlternateButtons
Lol, if TP's Wii controls were truly broken, there wouldn't be players on this forum taking time out to defend them. Motion controls may not be everyone's cup-of-tea but the players that enjoyed using them believe they are superior. So....that reason alone should've justified its inclusion, even if TP was originally designed for the Gamecube.
Skyward Sword didn't need motion controls for flying the Loftwing or swiming but it's sword fighting controls were one-of-a-kind that deserves replication.
@Manjushri I'm a rightie, but I HATE motion controls for major AAA titles like Zelda and Mario. I'm far more comfortable with a controller, though I do like gyroscope aiming in Wii U and 3DS Zelda ports.
As an optional controll scheme ? Sure, why not. But i, personally, am rather glad it can be played with the gamepad.
I only played the Wii version and now played it for the first time with "button combat". And let me tell you, it made combat so much more enjoyable, as the combat system in TP is actually rather robust.
"I was kind of hoping for..." "The controls were..." /stops reading /closes the article
Maybe the wiimote controls could get an 2016-improvement. But pushing buttons to simulate sword-fighting... I am not a drone pilot...
But looking at the mixed opinions here, I have to say "having both would've been best". Then everybody in this thread could just choose for themselves.
But they haven't. And for me it's kinda spoiling the game.
I gave up videogames (mainly PC games) after I finished Doom 1. I was about 25 by that time. Years later I picked up a secondhand Wii for my son, that included Twilight Princess. After I started to play this game, my love for videogames was reborn.
Eventho I have a very busy job, I still played TP 4 times... and other games I really liked were Tales of Symphonia (Dawn of the new world) and the Fatal Frame series. And an occasional Mario Kart race against my kit. But TP was true love.
But now I feel betrayed...
It would have been a deal breaker for me. I'll put up with waggle controls in certain last gen games, but I'll never pay a premium price for a modern game that's saddled with them.
Although, honestly, is there any real reason they couldn't have included both traditional and waggle controls?
Don't get the hate for the waggle controls. Waving the wiimote is no different to mashing the a button anyway.
It would have been nice if they'd given us the option to use the Wii Remote, for people who played the Wii version and are used to the controls. But Gamepad controls are still really good. Maybe they could add it in an update, with the option to switch between Wii Remote and Gamepad as a controller.
why not both?
would of been day one buy if they had both.
Yea, I agree with many here. Why didn't they include both control options? Anyway, what is a bigger problem for me is the fact that they haven't also included a Wii world orientation (mirrored mode) without hero difficulty for people who have played the Wii version. Of course one might call this good chance to play the game how it was originally made (aka Gamecube version), but still I'd like to play the game how I originally played it. Please Nintendo, it's not too late for simple updates.
I hoped for an evolution on Wii Controls. Ret conning the scheme is odd.
That said, I like the original controls for this game, as motion and I schemes are different things.
Would have loved Metroid Prime Remastered U.
@mjc0961 Exactly what I mean, just put better (I'm dutch, no native english speaker)
@mjc0961 The difference is, that a button press will always be way more responsive than anything else. Especially if the game isnt catered around motion controlls.
Skyward Sword is a whole other story; its whole combat system builds upon how you swing, TPs is more focused on when.
It worked on the Wii obviously, i finished it anyways. The difference is simply a cave of ordeals without taking a single hit this time
@Einherjar Maybe swinging a control wasn't as perfect as it should be, you admit that the way of sword fighting improved with SS, using a WiiMotion+ Now we're even approx 5 years since SS was released, and maybe another improvement to the wiimote could have been made.
Pushing buttons make me think I am playing pacman again. Even if swordfighting is not perfect with the wiimotes, it is still much more comparable to swordfighting than pushing a button.
In the late 80's I played mostly PC games. Then you had to use either your keyboard or a very simple joystick. Your hands were always close to each other.
Another thing, like MJC0961 pointed out: aiming your bow with the either the gyro or control-stick is more like guessing where your arrow will end. In the original TP I never missed a shot. The IR did a fairly well job on that.
Now I need about 5 arrows to hit a rather easy target. I now learnt that it's best to aim a little below the object you wanna hit. But it still annoys the heck outta me.
@mjc0961 @Muckypup @Turbo857
People are getting really emotional about this subject.
I think both control methods have their perks, but personally enjoy the GamePad more, though I have to admit that I haven't played the Wii version in ages. (maybe I'll fire up that game some day and do a comparison)
I agree that they would have done better to include the Remote+Nunchuk controls as an option.
@Moshugan
Maybe this whole discussion would not have existed if they included both ways. Now I get emotional, because I feel my favourite game of all time has been robbed off its playability.
And I seriously start to fear for Zelda Wii-U
@rjejr
I'm a huge proponent of motion controls when done right. TP did them very poorly. Aiming works way better with the stick + gyro a la Splatoon. The option to not use that is included.
Adding a reminder of the poor side of motion controls — waggle tied to a button action — helps only those comfortable with the old way while further damaging the impressions of those in the core market they are trying to gravitate towards with Zelda games.
The right decision was made here, in my opinion. Some options are best left off the table. Those irked about this should quickly be satisfied once they feel how natural it is to aim precisely using the stick+gyro rather than switch to a more distracting and distinct mode of pointing. Remember, the old code you are pinning your hopes on to make an easy port of the method is unaware of motion-plus and was one of the poorer implementations of pointing being an early Wii game.
For games like Metroid Prime where you are always "pointing" and you have a gun as a primary weapon the debate here is much more interesting. Splatoon has a lot to say about it though! Man, Metroid Prime with those controls and then raise the GamePad to scan things... I do want that game. — what were we talking about?
@mjc0961
Gyro controls are so far and away better than the wii-pointer controls in TP that I suspect you have not tried both back to back or at least haven't given the gyro controls an honest go. I love motion controls in general (Metroid Prime 3 and trilogy especially) but from day one I found TP pointing disappointing and clunky.
The original TP has a smoothing algorithm and motion blur and tries everything it can to make it work with the 30 fps and it feels clunky and slow and inaccurate (as a result?). The gyro controls are so much more precise and don't require gymnastics to make sure you are pointing at an exact place in space in front of your TV. It still has a slight delay due to the locked framerate so it's not as nice as Splatoon's beautiful implementation, but it requires so much less context switching on the part of the player.
I suspect we'll just agree to disagree though.
You say you haven't bought Splatoon which means you haven't experienced what so many have: their impressions of the controls being weird or too awkward to ever use completely reversed as it became a natural and preferred method. My advice is to get over the gag reflex whatever irrational reasoning may be causing it. Why? Because you're probably missing out on something you'd enjoy.
TLDR: Eat your vegetables and get off my lawn!
@Osiris11235 So do you think the Wii version is better? I don't have either. In open world games, I really want to have a map in my hands at all times... but this game doesn't really need it?
The main reason I never finished TP was because I just got tired of the motion controls. This game was the point at which the novelty of the gimmick just wore off for me. In the words of Margaret Thatcher, "I [hate the Wii's motion controls, and I always will]."
@Muckypup The thing was, TPs motion controlls boild down to mindless waggling. In SS, it was "actual swordfighting" if you want to go that far. You had to observe your opponent, wait for openings and strike that exact point.
TP on the other hand focused much more on your footwork, especially with skills like the dodge roll that lets you flank enemies. Everyone who tackled the cave of ordeals knows that there are certain enemies with rather iffy hit boxes.
So swinging a Wiimote around and hoping that the waggle counts as a swing was extremely counter productive. It was simply missing feedback due to it being imprecise.
As for archery, im on the fence on this one.
Pointer controlls in TP were as quick and precise as it gets. In shooters in general. I really really loved that.
On the other hand, i also loved learning to judge my shots from OoT on out.
Its kinda satisfying to learn that. And the gyro controlls of the gamepad work like a charm once you have it figured out. I can pretty much snipe moblins from the other end of the eldin bridge without using the hawk eyes by now and without having to adjust my shot minutes in advance ^^
The main reason why I initially got Twilight Princess for GameCube was because I was already comfortable with the control scheme from The Wind Waker, it felt right at home. ^_^
I recently tried the Wii version and wasn't very keen, the controls were very unresponsive for me, so I'm happy the definitive version for Wii U stays so true to the original intention of the game.
I don't mind the Wiimote controls, but when it's a question of just one mode I prefer the Gamepad / Gamecube version.
@Einherjar I hear ya... But I don't get it... Nobody says that TP HD should have the ancient wiimotes. You said it yourself that the wiimotion+, as was used in SS, was an improvement. Well, that could (and should) have been implemented in TP HD (next to the gamepad).
And even an waggly wiimote still feels way more like a sword than something where my hands are always together like a praying mantis. Then, using the wiimotion+ for this matter would even be better... Still better would it be if Nintendo had improved the wiimote controls even further since 2011.
A game where the Wii U gamepad is a great asset is Fatal Frame: Maidens of the black water, where you use the gamepad as a camera. That makes full sense to me.
But when swordfighting, my right arm moves way different than my left arm, and they're only close together when you handle a Bastardsword.
@SpookEevee1996 I read this a lot, about wiimotes being nonresponsive. I do not fully understand when is being meant by that, as my experience is that they a very reponsive.
I remember though, that the IR-receiver bar once broke, and had to be replaced. When that was the case, I could only use the wiimote from rather closeby the bar.
The old wiimote can be too easy. Just shake lightly and you're in for attack. I know people playing a game of Tennis (Wii Sports) and barely move their arms... Well, yeah... That's up to them...
But for me, the wiimotes always do a great job and the wiimotion+ was an improvement. Especially with a wireless nunchuck.
It's a missed opportunity, and makes the Wii version still the definitive version of the game. It also sets a worrying precedent about current Nintendo. It seems they haven't learned a thing from the failures of the Wii U.
I'm thankful they didn't force you to use wiimote controls as I much prefer playing games with the gamepad, but it is a little unfortunate that, for the definitive version of the game, the choice is not there.
Wii Remote controls would have been a nice option to have, but it wasn't necessary either.
@aaronsullivan I don't think with TP it's so much about the pointing as the sword swinging like in SS. If they are going to go thru all the trouble to port over 1 10 year old game and charge $50 for it, add in the Wii+ motion controls from SS. They are both Zelda games from Ninntedo, surely the people making TP HD could have asked for the SS Wiimote+ codes to make the motion controls good?
I'm not about opposing anybody's will on anybody else, I'm asking for options, and Ntinedo is really bad at that, but really good at asking way too much money for 10 year old games. Splatoon should have had voice chat for people who wanted to use it, at least in "friends" it should have. AC should have had a real game. Mario Tennis should have had more than 1 court. They are just cutting so many corners, all they care about is amiibo.
@AlternateButtons
Then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this matter... and that's totally cool. Even when acknowledging SS's 1:1 controls as a true realization of motion controlled swordplay, I still find the motion controls for Wii TP to be very comfortable and, for me, preferred to this day than tradition button controls. And I personally didn't have a problem with SS's Loftwing flying and swimming controls in SS. I just sympathize with other opinions that felt these specific instances where motion control was applied may have been unnecessary.
@rjejr
As cool as it'd would've been (for players like us, especially) to have SS controls in TP: HD, it would've brought some problems with it. #1 SS didn't use the sword controls just for combat but puzzles as well. So, in addition to significantly adjusting enemy/boss AI to adapt to the advanced sword controls, the devz may feel compelled to change puzzles and other gameplay aspects as well to justify their inclusion. When you do that, you're essentially changing the game and you're "remaking" rather than simply "remastering". #2 Nintendo hasn't yet demonstrated how to properly simulate SS's sword controls to analog controls. So, a TP: HD with SS's controls would have to be the only control scheme and it would admittedly "turn-off" a huge number of gamers that didn't/don't like these controls to begin with. If they could make a TP with traditional button controls and SS's motion controls, then maybe, but it would require too much work for a game that's already been released, imo.
I think this effort is better used on a new game, which is what I'm hoping for the new Wii U/NX Zelda.
@Turbo857 Well if Nintendo is only going by comments of Zelda fans the next Zelda game won't have any motion controls or any voice acting. It will just be another iteration of OoT. See Star Fox Zero as yet another SF64, but w/ gyro controls added in.
@rjejr
Heh-heh, I have high hopes for Starfox. I'm sure it'll play just fine.
Don't lose hope on the next Zelda. If this forum is any indication, fans are split pretty down the middle regarding motion controls. Besides, Nintendo knows an HD Skyward Sword remaster is due down the line and it'll definitely include motion controls and have a traditional button option with sword controls mapped to the right analog. If they're smart, they'll do this for the next new Zelda too.
@Turbo857 Do you really think they would take motion controls OUT of TP HD on Wii U and then add them back IN for Zelda U which is being built from the ground up to make use of the Wii U Gamepad? They will likely use gyro controls for arrows and maybe bugs or slingshots - things that shoot - but Link will be a lefty and sword motion will not be an option.
And do we really need SS HD? 2 HD games is enough, and we already had OOT on 3DS. If there is a SS HD it would probably be on NX, and I'm not sure Wiimotes will even work w/ NX, so no motion except gyro again. And if NX is a handheld w/ TV out then really no Wiimote+.
@rjejr
You make a good point and it's entirely possible Ninty can just go the Gamepad button route with Wii U Zelda. But my short answer, yup it's possible the next Zelda will get motion controls (at least for swordplay). SS's 1:1 motion controls can be translated to the right analog stick. We've seen this to some degree in Metal Gear Rising. And I believe the NX will be backwards compatible with Wii and Wii U technology. If it doesn't, they won't be able to monetize on some of their back catalog (more on that below).
#1 All Wii U Zelda footage shown so far, surprisingly shows Link as a righty (doesn't automatically confirm motion controls but it serves speculation).
#2 Twilight Princess is a strange case since it was originally planned as a Gamecube title and its Wii controls have been improved upon since its initial release. Eventhough it's regretful that its Wii controls were abandoned in its HD version, the devz may have assumed incorporating these controls would be a step back after the progress they made with SS. So I don't believe this example necessarily reflects their attitude regarding the inclusion of 1:1 sword control in future Zeldas.
#3. Nintendo can never completely abandon the Wii remote going forward, it's not profitable for its future. Especially when you consider how they like to monetize its previous generation's back catalog. Many games from the Wii era either can't simply be translated to analog controls or play better with a remote or Nunchuck+remote (Warioware: Smooth Moves, Wii Sports Resort, Skyward Sword, light gun games, Metroid Prime series, etc.) Aonuma was also very pleased with achieving 1:1 swordplay in SS when it was first released and was quoted "I don't think we can go back to buttons". Even with some fans disdain for motion controls, they are still preferred by many gamers and it's just not wise to ignore them entirely. SS will most likely get an HD version for the NX in a few years to come and they will not abandon its motion controls.
So, overall it's something Nintendo will have to continue to embrace so why not keep the momentum going with Wii U Zelda?
@roboshort
I have both the GameCube and Wii versions, and do prefer the Wii version for the controls.
Personally, I still haven't been sold on having a secondary screen in any game as I'd rather just tap a button to pull up a map.
@rjejr I hear you on options in general. Swinging was the worst of the uses of wii remotes, though: waggle for an inaccurate mapping to what you want to be the immediate pressing of a button.
To add Skyward Sword functionality would fundamentally change the combat and in order for it to be useful... well, they made a whole new game for that.
Also, I think the lack of options sometimes a design decision to make a better game but like you suggest they have turned their focus into something that will make some money while they transition to a reboot with the hardware. At least that's how I view the role that amiibo has taken over time. In other words, it's not just amiibo for the sake of amiibo and cash, but how do we transition our developers onto projects on new hardware and still make money on games. Amiibo is part of that (whether that was the initial intent or not). Also, the lackluster feature list on Tennis and AC:AF seems like it was about freeing those teams up for work on a platform that will hopefully have a bigger payoff.
On your point to @Turbo857 I was thinking the same thing. The lack of a motion option in TP after much discussion could suggest that Zelda U is abandoning it. Whether it is a subtle message they wanted to send or not, I think we are going to lose it.
I think all the talk about NX being a step in a new direction partly means that the Wii remote is done for going forward. Gyroscopic controls like in WW HD, Splatoon, and TP HD can supplant some of the best functionality, fortunately. Jury is still out on SFZ.
Looking back at the discussion here, it seems my last post has been covered by others. Oh well. Mine is shorter and that's rare for me.
@Turbo857 I didn't realize Link was a righty in the vids, that's a good case for motion right there. (ugh, unintentional pun)
And I can imagine $ for Ntineod and the Wiimote+, somehow those things are still going for $30, it's just crazy.
But my own view on Ntineod over the past 2 years or so somewhat precludes Wiimotes as I've been thinking they forego home ocnsoles in favor of handhelds - preferably w/ TV out so I can play at home. How do you play w/ a Wiimote on a handheld?
Even if they do make a home console - NX - if it is meant to play the same games as a handheld - NX portable - then you can't make the games dependent on waving a Wiimote around on a crowded bus or train or subway. You can easily do gyro motion - many mobile games have motion controls, but not waving a sword around.
So even if NX is a home console, if the games are meant to be played on the go on an NX portbale then you need the option to NOT have waving arms. How could you even hold a Wiimote and a 4DS at the same time?
So you make a lot of good points, especially about Wii VC, but they go against my long established world view of what I think NX will be. And maybe someday Nintendo will tell us what NX is, and people can have normal conversations about games instead of all this guess work.
@aaronsullivan I kind of JUST responded to the motion in future Zelda games thing, it's right above this one, playing catch-up from yesterday.
As for amiibo - got the DI 3.0 SSB game yesterday and so far so good. It helps that we already have about 20 of the 25 characters, but I like their trial system as well. Story mode is crazy short, but still longer than the story mode in SSB4WiiU
Of course it is a $20 DLC pack for a $65 game, so not exactly cheap, but for $20 it was well worth it. Big question - how much do we play it after Pokken in 3 days? Bad timing. I still want an amiibo game though. But at some point I suppose we have to give up, no? NX launch title or I'm done.
@rjejr
I agree. Even if NX is compatible with Wii U and Wii controllers, I don't think Nintendo will make Wii remote centric games (unless their input can be easily translated to analog controls). Like Ninty did with the Wii U, I think new games created for the NX will be centric to its unique controller and optionally use Nunchuks and Wii remotes as an alternative when applicable (1st-3rd person shooters, Virtual Console Wii games, etc.)
I personally don't believe NX will just be a portable system with an HDMI jack to your TV. But for its rumored portable unit, tradition button controls will obviously take precedent. If a game uses motion controls outside of gyro controls, it'll likely remain an alternative control option when a game is played on the NX's rumored "console" unit (and that's fine since again, motion controls aren't being completely abandoned in this scenario).
However, if the portable unit for the NX includes the Wii U Gamepad's built-in sensor bar than you'd be able to use Nunchuks and Wii remotes while the unit is stationary. But yeah, on the train or a crowded bus.... it just wouldn't be practical.
@Turbo857 If the words "sensor bar" pop up anywhere near the NX, I'm out.
Cameras I get, even if MS dropped the Kinect 2.0, but a sensor bar, that does nothing but emit two lights for the Wiimote to pick up, that seems like such ancient tech w/ all the motion controls in a smartphone these days. At least Kinect and PS cameras do other stuff, and have mics built in. I hope we don't need WiiSpeak mics for NX too. (For the record, I was really expecting the Wii U sensor bar to have WiiSpeak built in, and maybe a camera. Instead we have a camera on the Gamepad that never gets used, and a mic that rarely gets used b/c so few game shave voice chat.)
Maybe it's time for simple game-playing NES 3 without all the gimmicks? Just don't make it look like a lunchbox.
@rjejr
Glad DI BG is working out. Might try it one day. Seems like fans are pleased with more diverse play sets and seeing it live on for awhile at DI 3.0 just seems like a good plan to me.
Pokken is too 1-on-1 for us. Our youngest is still coming to terms with that type of play. (He doesn't mind winning)
Good point about how Wii remotes don't fit into the potential vision of NX console and NX mobile having many crossover games. That and the strong Insistence that NX is leaving Wii behind mean that the Wii remote will probably only live on in a sort of VC scenario.
@aaronsullivan My kids are still playing a lot of DI, bought Black Panther and Boba Fett yesterday - at full price b/c my wife took them shopping while I was at a funeral all day - and Boba is alreadyat level 16, but Pokken is first and foremost. both kids are progressing well in single player, and a lot of screaming and yelling at each other in vs. Mostly my 11 yr old, he is a horrible loser, I think he sadly gets that from me, the 13 yr old is better at shrugging it off. I really need to get them out more, will be glad when my 5" of snow melts tomorrow, or better yet misses us, we're ready for spring.
Definitely missing the motion controls, particularly since Wii motion plus could've really improved the control over the original Wii version. really both schemes would have been good. I kind of get the impression this was kind of a half-hearted release though. The animations seem super rough. The camera is floaty as hell and so far the updated graphics are kind of meh compared to wind weaker hd. I'm almost tempted to sell this one off and pop in the original instead.
I wish they had just done both...come on, the wii version had them, was it that hard to add them back in for the few that appreciated them?
Should've kept the Wii controls. Aiming the bow with the Wii remote was so fun. I just finished the escort mission on TP HD and nearly blew a vessel due to the imprecision of the controls and targeting.
Also, it's 2020 and I'm commenting on this old article. So if you happen to read this, you owe me a gourmet soda.
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