In one sense Super NES games on the New Nintendo 3DS is rather exciting - it's the first (legitimate) time a lot of these games can be played on a portable device, after all. That's something to celebrate, but the reveal and pending line-up also comes with its own nagging issues and annoyances, some of which could easily be avoided and others that point to Nintendo's eagerness to scratch a few extra cents out of these SNES games.
I'm going to be brutally honest here, and this is very much a personal opinion (which I suspect is shared by some others) - Nintendo's ongoing Virtual Console policy is nonsense. It had a chance, with these SNES games, to try something new and to give 3DS owners a warm fuzzy feeling. Instead it feels a little like a nickel and dime exercise, and after buying these games twice already (with occasional exceptions like EarthBound which was only previously on Wii U) I'm not planning to do it again. Apart from in a few exceptional cases - because I'm a sucker.
First of all, I want to address the enormous (yet conversely portable) elephant in the room - SNES games being exclusive to the New 3DS and skipping the older hardware. It's a fascinating one, and someone with greater technical smarts than me needs to determine whether it is indeed a technical issue getting these games on the original systems or if - alternatively - this is a business move to encourage a few more hardware upgrades from eager fans. I've seen people arguing both sides (pointing out how the GBA Ambassador downloads had to be mimicked as DS games to 'work' as an example of how tricky emulation can be), and I'd love a definitive answer on it. Unfortunately it's a move that will disappoint some, and my gut instinct is that we're looking at a slightly cynical business move, a usp (unique selling point) for New 3DS. I hardly think it'll be enough on its own to sell many more New 3DS systems, either - it might encourage a small number to finally upgrade if they were already planning to, conceivably, but there's certainly been fallout from those with older models that want the updated Virtual Console.
Moving beyond that, I couldn't help but roll my eyes at the pricing and 'promotion' (in Europe) accompanying the earliest batches of releases, which are either copies or close imitations of similar deals on early Wii / DS / GBA downloads on Wii U. We have the same general pricing as we have on Wii and Wii U, which is $7.99 / €7.99 / £7.19, and in PAL regions only you can get half off one game if you buy two each week, so get both for €11.98 (standard priced arrivals) if you move quickly. Nintendo of America isn't even bothering with that - just buy 'em three at a time, is the message on that side of the Atlantic. You want cross-buy? Are you crazy?
And you know what? It's bonkers. Nintendo is launching a fresh range of Virtual Console games (in terms of the host platform, not the actual games) with the same business model it established nearly a decade ago. 10 years is aeons in technology consumerism, yet Nintendo's sticking to its guns; considering how much it's evolved its eShop stores and practices elsewhere, this stubbornness with the Virtual Console is surprising. There's no reward or loyalty bonus here either - even on Wii U you could re-purchase the likes of Super Mario World for much less if you went through the annoying Wii system transfer process. Not ideal, but better than nothing. Yet nothing is what New 3DS gamers get. No loyalty thank you. We just have to buy these games again and be grateful for the opportunity. Thank you Nintendo, I'm happy to pay for the ROM again, why not?
I bought Super Mario World solely for the purpose of this article, plus it's an excuse to play it on the lovely smaller screen. It looks fine, albeit teeny on my small New 3DS screen, but it's predictably bare-bones as a purchase. The tell-tale sign is that it's just 70 'blocks' in size - the digital manual is basic (not the lovely scanned efforts we've seen with some Wii U VC purchases) - and it has the standard save state feature and the option to switch between a slightly fuzzy expanded image or the crisp pixel perfect original resolution. It feels like the same old jazz, ultimately, without any game-changing bells and whistles. At least it's the US version which, for a European retro gamer, is important.
I don't really feel good about my purchase, despite the game being one of the finest platformers ever to grace the industry. It reeks of a missed opportunity.
Just recently I wrote about the potential allure of a revitalised Virtual Console. I considered the scope for bundles, loyalty-based deals and discounts, perhaps even a subscription-style service. It's sad how outlandish these ideas seem when discussing the VC, as they're all based in the current reality of how entertainment companies incentivise and compete for customers. Nintendo has carried out various aspects of these ideas elsewhere in the eShop (apart from subscriptions, as such) it should be said, but once it's the Virtual Console in the picture ambition seems to disappear.
That article also spoke about the potential role of the My Nintendo account system in enabling Nintendo to contemplate cross-buy support (or at least automatically triggered discounts) by recognising what games you've already purchased. Yet the timing of these SNES arrivals - landing just before the My Nintendo programme is due to kick in - shows that there's little to no hope of any ambitious plans for Virtual Console in this hardware generation. It would have been exciting for the arrival of these VC games on New 3DS to coincide with a My Nintendo promotion, introducing new incentives and deals to entice players in and reward longstanding fans. Perhaps the infrastructure for such ideas isn't possible or cost-effective on New 3DS, or perhaps Nintendo's happy simply taking the money and running.
That final point is key. For all of my complaints above, for all of the - I think valid - observations on how out of touch the Virtual Console is from how download content is sold in the modern age, and for all the aspirations for a service that uses retro games as an asset to reward fans and promote brands, the simple fact is Nintendo can simply take the money with ease. We're getting the Virtual Console we deserve, as we keep going back and buying the same content over and over again.
Looking at the 'Recent Bestsellers' on my UK New 3DS eShop account at the time of writing, they are as follows.
- Pokémon Yellow Version
- Pokémon Red Version
- Pokémon Blue Version
- Super Mario World
- Pokémon Super Mystery Dungeon
- Bravely Second: End Layer
- Mega Man Legacy Collection
- Super Mario Bros. 3
- Pokémon Trading Card Game
The dominance of full-priced Virtual Console games speaks volumes for how many with a 3DS - in the UK, in this case - are spending their money. I recently wrote about the nature of nostalgia's value, with a hot deal like that of Mega Man Legacy Collection - which has 6 NES games and loads of lovely extras, a purchase I feel great about - against the demand for Pokémon generation 1 games meaning they arrive at a high price. While UK gamers can get both Super Mario World and EarthBound for £11.68 with the 50% off deal currently running in PAL territories, they're evidently largely happy to pay the Nintendo premium for retro games; the only comfort in that top 10 is that four of the games are on the Virtual Console (across Wii, Wii U and 3DS) for the first time. As long as that's the case, and if these trends are reflected in other territories, the broader Nintendo fanbase is harming its own chances of a meaningful modernisation of the Virtual Console. Nintendo is a business, and if it can make relatively easy money it will do so.
What we don't know for sure is how much the Virtual Console return is diminishing - on the Wii the concept was hugely popular (as shown by the sheer volume of third parties that jumped in) while the smaller Wii U user base will mean an inevitable drop on this generation. The 3DS has naturally benefited from new platforms, but we'd love to see how sales of SNES games end up comparing to the figures on Wii and then Wii U. That's the sort of data Nintendo never willingly shares, but if the overall trend is one of decline it may make the company reconsider its antiquated model.
We hope this is the last time the Virtual Console sticks to its current pricing model. Perhaps Nintendo will weigh up sales against the marketing and public relations value of its retro content and modernise its approach, making these downloads increasingly impulsive purchase prices for newcomers and bargain bonuses for long-term loyal fans that have bought them all before. Unfortunately, that day isn't here yet, and we have to contemplate whether to buy Super Mario World for a third time.
Many will though, because Nintendo knows we're suckers for nostalgia.
Nintendo's still pretty clueless it seems.
People need to stop buying multiple copies of these digital games and teach Nintendo a lesson.
This is getting to the point of beyond embarrassing now. First Nintendo makes it so only the New 3DS can play SNES games even though the original 3D can handle it no problem and then they make it so you still have to pay full price for it... yet again.
For me I just think it's an insult that Super Mario world is £5.49 on Wii U but is £7.19 on new3DS.
They are murdering us with those prices. SNES games should not be that expensive in the modern era of gaming.
Where did the £7.19 price even come from? Why not just charge £6.99 or even £5.49?
And where is my cross buy? When I bought Mario World on Wii U I at least got an upfront discount since I already owned the Wii version.
Why do we not get the same discount on new3DS? The pricing is ridiculous.
Language please! (Jazzer)
I figured NX was coming soon and would have a mobile component. So this seems odd to put on new 3ds and push that hardware right before a replacement.
I also assumed that an integrated NX mobile/console system would include crossbuy. This program has me doubting that.
If it wasn't so expensive this wouldn't be as much of a problem, but paying over £7 for a 20+ year old ROM is a bit ridiculous.
The people who come up with these prices at Nintendo are probably the same people who charge twenty five dollars at airports for a basic ham sandwich.
If they didn't set a precedent by offering (at the very least) reduced pricing for re-buying your Wii virtual console games on the Wii U, this wouldn't sting as much. However, that happened. There is zero excuse as to why we would pay full price in this case. One could make the argument that we're paying for convenience, but given other options it takes some serious gall to charge customers full price for the same game they've bought multiple times. Seems that those who thought the new Nintendo Account system would prevent this from continuing to happen will be sorely disappointed.
I don't mind buying it again, IF it finally carries over to NX. I have a suspicion that Wii U & 3DS VC purchases will be 'discounted' on the NX. Let's hope at least..
@KIREEK I just can't figure out how Mario World is more expensive now on new3DS than when it launched 3-4 years ago on Wii U.
How does a digital copy of a 30 year old game get MORE expensive?
Don't forget this article:
SNES Dragon Ball Z: Super Butōden 2.
It's not a traditional SNES VC file for 3DS as it doesn't show the SNES console model in the home menu.
More like M2's Sega 3D Classic series where it shows the arcade machine & game or the Mega Drive's title screen.
Cross buy was never happening on the current systems, regardless of the new account system. That feature will be for NX onwards.
Surely you all knew that.
Yes the og 3DS can technically handle SNES emulation but Nintendo thought it would likely be easier with the new 3DS due to the increased RAM and faster processor.
I don't think people realize Nintendo's biggest obstacle to cross buy really has mainly been the gulf in hardware and architecture between Wii U and 3DS. With Apple apple its simple enough since all of their devices share similar hardware and OSs making it easy to port apps between them with minimal effort. With 3DS my guess is that their emulators needed to be run on a completely different base code from Wii U due to the 3DSs differing hardware. I am fairly certain with NX we will see full cross buy. Remember how Iwata said he wishes to make Nintendo systems similar to Apple Much of the My Nintendo features will not see full implementation until NX comes round
I'm just worried Nintendo will stop releasing SNES 3DS VC games after this month or something like they did previously with NES and GB/GBC games. We got 1 every few weeks and after we received like 10+ games they just stopped.
Very sad missed opportunity and I can think of 50 games I want on the snes vc for 3ds.
@IceClimbers Yep I was thinking the same thing I find it annoying how people claim Nintendo doesnt understand cross buy while not considering the fact the architecture simply isnt there
I don't know why people are surprised in the pricing. Nintendo has always been about generating profits.
Never bought a virtual console game most of the time I can get the original game for a cheaper price. :/
Nintendo is quickly losing me as a fan and stuff like this doesn't make me very hopeful for the NX.
i've been saying this for years, and this articles pretty much resumes it all... i'm truly sick of how greedy Nintendo is and how they totally abuse their fanbase, knowing that we're gonna buy those damn ROM anyway...
Nintendo is literally putting the same SNES games we've already bought and played onto the New 3DS, nothing new at all. It's pathetic that they don't try to put something up that we haven't already bought...
I do not plan on buying another VC title on WiiU or 3DS until cross buy is implemented. It's gone too far Nintendo. If it was nickel and diming us, I might be OK with it. But it's $5 and $10ing us, and that is way too much.
These games will flop on the New 3DS, even despite their classic status. Sure, some people will try them out at launch, but sales will likely diminish quickly after that. The small New 3DS install base and uncompensated high prices will make most people stick with Wii VC or other versions.
This is probably why Nintendo has priced them like that, too. They know that not many people will bite, so they will collect the money from those few who do.
Meanwhile, the general 3DS malaise with low game sales means that these will still appear on the eShop charts. Few people are buying 3DS games, so VC titles can chart even with measly sales.
Why release non-cross buy mere months before a cross buy program? You may get some sales but the people who do buy will surely be unhappy.
I'm just glad there is a Virtual Console both for 3DS and Wii U. For example, Playstation 4 doesn't even have PS1 games on it's digital store, and it has only a handful of PS2 games as well.
I'm not supporting Nintendo's pricing policy, but it's great Nintendo hasn't abandoned Virtual Console.
the pixel perfect things means they probably put more into it tbh. also my Nintendo isn't out yet so they can't do cross buy, how can you do that. you have the game on wii u for awhile, it's not like they can just put it on store buy now get it on new 3ds also.
PS4 is a new console. Certainly ps1 & ps2 classics will be integrated in the future. Sony has even hinted it was coming.
after buying these games twice already (with occasional exceptions like EarthBound which was only previously on Wii U) I'm not planning to do it again. Apart from in a few exceptional cases - because I'm a sucker.
Same here, just with no exceptions.
Oh Nintendo, you'll never, ever learn...
"Apart from in a few exceptional cases - because I'm a sucker."
-and this is exactly why Nintendo does and is still able to have business practices like this. Because we all still buy them.
Can't really understand the complains that this is New 3DS exclusive. No one promised 3DS owners ever that SNES games would be available for it.
A discount for people who already have it on Wii u was all that was needed.
It wasn't delivered and it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I have an old 3ds and would upgrade to new 3ds if I could get cheap copies of my snes Wii u library.
Owning a portable Super Nintendo is a long life dream of mine. Thanks to the fact we live in the future, we now have the technology to do it. But I think Nintendo is too little, too late with this offering. And sadly the fact that most of the very best SNES and Super Famicom games will never see the light of day on Virtual Console due to copyright and other such issues, I must thank Nintendo for their excellent services but will decline on having to buy once again games I already own on cartridge, bought oh so many years ago at such a huge price.
Thats exactly how cross buy worked for woah dave. I picked it up for 3ds long before it was released for wii u. When it was released on wii u I picked it up free.
I still have my snes and super Mario world so wasn't bothered about wiiu but instantly bought it for 3ds!! However I recently purchased super Metroid! Now I'm waiting to see if what I purchased on wiiu will be free for my 3ds when the account system arrives but I can't see it happening so ill probably have to pay full price again which is stupid and annoying! Why do us hard-core dedicated Nintendo fans get rubbish deal's sometimes?!!
The entire realm of vc has been sad after such a strong start. Ive spent so much money on retro systems since vc started. Who knew that was the cheaper option and I still have lots of games that will never be officially re-released.
Original 3DS has been proven time and again by numerous sources of not being able to fully/perfectly run SNES games. Also homebrewers have not been able to run SNES on original 3DS without compromises and turning off all the OS hardware functions such as streetpass, wireless, etc...
3DS and Wii U use radically different accounts and hardware, which is preventing cross buy and the use of the same emulators.
3rd parties hate cross buy, because they view it as giving away their games for free.
Lastly most 3rd parties aren't wiling to support the VC in any real capacity after they were "burned" with the Wii VC.
3rd parties want higher prices on the VC, much like they get on Steam and PSN.
1st of all, not everyone person who has a 3ds owned a SNES. Basically what you are all complaining about is the fact I own SMW and Super Metroid on my SNES, but I have to pay for them again on a newer handheld system. Well, as much as I would like to get credit for owning original cartridges, I still have to pay for them on my n3ds. Yea, getting SMW for $1 on my wii u was a nice deal, but I doubt I even paid for it on my wii since I got so many free VC games from Nintendo Club over the years. Complain that we don't get Link to the past on a handheld, then complain that Nintendo is too greedy with it when they do offer it. Bottom line, Nintendo is a business, and it costs money to port gamers to different devices, so they deserve to make money off it. If you don't want/need to buy it, then don't. But don't complain because I am going to rebuy most of those games for my n3ds since I want it to be a portable SNES. it already has over 100 games installed on it, and it is probably my 2nd fav gaming system ever, next to my wii u which has over 300 games installed on it. And this isn't counting the over 100 physical games I own too. Would I like to see Nintendo be more like Steam, yes. But is that really ever going to happen, doubtful. But Nintendo being Nintendo is why I am a 34 year old gamer who still spends 90% of my gaming playing Nintendo games.
Nintendo being wilfully stupid is getting a bit tedious.
Actually Sony forces you to rebuy all your digital content at full price on PS4.
None of digital purchases carry over to PS4 (same for Xbox One).
They are literally charging $15-$20 for PS2 games for PS4 in the U.S.
They are charging $10-$20 for PS1 games, with FFVII being the only major release going for $15.99.
I refuse to buy any of these games again on my 3DS since I own them on Wii and Wii U. Nintendo's model is frustrating. I have 2 iPads in which I only buy the game once. Same is true for our 3 Kindle Fires. Now I have bought my daughter a 2DS and have to buy all games physical so we can swap them. I prefer digital but I'm not paying for them for each device. Why can't my Nintendo account own the rights to play the game on any of my devices like Apple and Amazon do? It's frustrating and until fixed I'll be very careful what VC games I buy. So it's actually. So owning more consoles in which j have to choose has reduced the number of VC games I'm buying.
I didn't mind paying a little to upgrade my Wii VC games to the Wii U, because there were in fact new features involved, but I wouldn't have bought them at full price again, and that goes for the 3DS as well. One of the biggest reasons I'm hoping the NX is a hybrid system is a unified library. It's ridiculous that NES games I own on the 3DS can't be played on my Wii U, and vice versa, without another full price purchase. I sincerely hope that the NX, and the new Nintendo account system, fix this. Also, I still want Gamecube games on the VC. Just thought I'd throw that in there.
That's one of several reasons I don't want a PS4. Sony did so well with cross-buy last gen, but this gen, they're worse than Nintendo.
Obviously Nintendo doesn't want cross buy but it's easily possible and exists now even if only a few games take advantage of it.
Sega has published MD games with some nice additions (3D, lovely visual effects, darn, even BRAND NEW features), so technically it would be possible to run SNES games on every 3DS since both systems are from the same gen.
And cross buy is totally possible, it's even already happened from various third parties (indie developers), so there's no excuse here, not a single one. Give me cross buy and make me happy, I'll buy some other games maybe (for sure actually), I'll spend some cash. No cross buy? I'm disappointed and will not spend a cent. Well done Nintendo!!
Nintendo wants $13 bucks for SNES games on 3DS? I'm good....
Download is rubbish. It means there will never be a chance of coming across a cheap second hand copy in a shop. And I'm sure that's Ninty's point.
@Thomas Whitehead, I recommend you speak to the authors of BlargSNES for the 3DS. I've seen a few of them commenting on the issue of whether the o3DS could emulate SNES games and their experiences give them a unique position to actually comment on this. Their general conclusion is it's not possible without inaccuracies in the emulation.
The reason for this is the 3DS isn't very good at rendering 2D graphics the way the SNES draws them. The BlargSNES authors have got around this by rendering the graphics as 3D textured polygons, but the lack of paletised textures means certain effects are very difficult to emulate accurately. This results in graphical glitches in some games.
The upshot is that Nintendo are emulating the SNES entirely on the New 3DS CPU which allows for a much more accurate and complete emulation. The downside of course is that the o3DS just isn't fast enough for the same thing.
My feeling is that this isn't some cynical attempt by Nintendo to sell more New 3DSes, I think the hardware limitations are a genuine limit. The need to pay £7 for something I've already bought on the Super Famicom, GBA, Wii and Wii U on the other hand is a limitation I think Nintendo could have easily overcome....
I think it's a waste of money paying that outrageous price for a game I've bought multiple times on multiple consoles. I'm not gonna buy it again. They really need to merge all our purchases that are tied to our NNID which could be every game you've ever registered or bought from them. Ugh!!!!! NEVER AGAIN NINTENDO. YOU MAKE ME FEEL LIKE A BATTERED WIFE COMING BACK FOR A SECOND AND THIRD HELPING. shame on me if I buy again.
I have purchased Super Mario World twice now, I refuse to repurchase it again for my new 3DS. Nintendo, get your digital act together! I thought that was the whole point of My Nintendo. Goodness gracious. This can't be that hard.
They should've done SNES games with more bells and whistles. 3D like those SEGA games maybe. Then they'd be worth rebuying.
As it stands, I'll only be buying Super Metroid. And only because I've never finished it.
I'd buy FF6 as well but I doubt they'll be doing that for europe.
Considering our NNIDs are shared between Wii U and 3DS, would it really be too much to ask that 3DS SNES VC games be (at the very least) discounted if you own them on Wii U? If you have them on Wii, you can upgrade to the Wii U version for just $1.50.
They would make more money off of these if they made them available on regular 3DS as well and discounted them. I doubt too many people will upgrade to a New 3DS just to play SNES VC.
@Dezzy Same here. Super Metroid is my favorite game of all time, and having it on an official Nintendo portable has been a long time dream of mine. It's the only one I'm guaranteed to go for although I may get ALttP as well.
Charge $10 a month for a subscription service that lets you play every virtual console game for free.
@cleveland124 Indeed. AAA+ on Nintendo for the effort, and I'm really happy younger people have a chance to legally discover all of these classics, but we all know the Virtual Console will never be able to match the real thing.
@Mahe It won't flop like you think it will. They can only create profit because they are old games that have already made them money. The only money spend is paying the programmers to put the games on the eshop
Actually I don't think Nintendo is opposed to cross buy.
They just didn't build the 3DS eShop with it in mind.
Once NX account system is fully implemented, I see Nintendo doing some form of cross buy.
But to be fair, even Apple doesn't allow cross buy for iOS Appstore and Mac Appstore.
I mean if I buy an app on Mac Appstore, I don't get any form of cross buy for the same app on iOS. (also vice versa).
If company wants to do cross buy in for Mac and iOS, they have to send you redemption code for the other.
Same goes for Windows 10 and Windows 10 mobile.
I have yet to double-dip on a VC game between my (standard) 3DS and Wii U as I see no point; why pay full price for something that you already have?
I agree with many of the points in this editorial. Nintendo needs to implement cross-buy, or at least some type of purchasing system that works. The whole reason why I'm not very excited about SNES games on the New 3DS is because I already own the ones I'm interested in on Wii U.
It wouldn't work due to legalities and ratings.
There is no way in hell 3rd parties would support it, especially after 10 years of complaining about how cheap digital prices are for retro titles.
The harsh truth is that the Virtual Console service has fallen drastically in quality ever since the 3DS and the Wii U. Here are the gripes I have:
1. The exploitative pricing of games with tons of demand (Mother 2 at $10, Mother 1 at $7, and Pokemon RBY at $10 each for example)
2. The lack of many VC titles in NA that have been in Europe for quite a while. Speaking of which, NA doesn't have as many sales as EU. Take right now, for example.
3. The obvious issue of cross-buy that many have discussed here.
I could go on forever, but I've said enough. I do not think that this generation's VC will surpass the Wii VC, and that makes me sad.
I never thought I would ever say this, but here it goes.
'To anyone, wherever you are and if you ever read this, break the New 3DS.
Open the doors to pirated software.
And end this garbage cycle.'
I bought 10-15 PS1 games when I had my PS3. When I got my new PSP, I just downloaded those games to the Memory Card.
Likewise, I bought 5-7 PSP games on PSN and when I got my new Vita (ok, 2nd hand Vita), I again simply downloaded the games to the memory card.
PS4 might be asking people to rebuy 8-10 year old games, but it's a joy (coupled with cross-buy) compared to the trash Nintendo dumps on their systems.
This is a joke, just like Nintendo is a joke. And if they keep going with the NX like they have here, I hope the NX flops harder than the Wii U.
Make games Nintendo, you're doing everything else wrong.
Cross buy exists now. If a budget title like Woah Dave can figure it out the technical limitations must not be much. I bought Woah Dave for less than a dollar on 3Ds. Later it was announced for Wii U as crossbuy. When it released, I downloaded it in the Wii U eshop for free. No additional codes. Nintendo ID works fine for crossbuy.
Thus the only logical explanation is Nintendo didn't want to offer cross buy.
Technically Nintendo allows developers/publisher to send you a code to redeem the other.
I might buy Super Metroid when it comes out (got the Wii U for $.30)
But frankly the two eShop are as different as Windows 10 and Windows 10 mobile shops and Mac Appstore and iOS Appstore.
I didnt get a code for Woah Dave. The Wii U knew I owned the 3ds version because I use the same Nintendo ID on both and offered it for free. No magic here.
The eshops may be different but that is irrelevant. In this instance Nintendo can do now what people claim is coming in the future.
@Xenocity Well Playstation Plus is a fantastic deal. Nintendo needs to figure out how to adopt a similar service. Making their first party virtual console games or a large portion of them free would be a great incentive to start through a monthly service.
Nintendo's approach is very old fashioned. I wouldn't mind paying a slightly higher price now as long as a game is tied to my account, and allows me to play the game on any current or future Nintendo console.
Hopefully DeNA can slap some sense into Nintendo and find a way to implement a better system by the time the NX is released.
I agree that the prices feel a little on the high side. I'm in Canada, so it's over $11 for one of these SNES titles on N3DS. However, my own personal test for what I'm willing to pay centres around how much game I'm getting for the dollar. Even at $11, the amount of game contained in a title like Super Mario World outweighs the amount of game in many newer titles sold for more money. It's just a personal thing.
I ponied up the cash for Super Mario World because I absolutely love the game, and the allure of being able to play a perfectly emulated version of it on the go was too much. ...and it is perfect — plays perfect, looks perfect, sounds perfect. It's in my pocket. I'm happy. I'd be happy-ER if it were cheaper, but them's the breaks. They're offering something I'm happy to have, and it passes my own personal test for what I'm willing to pay for it.
@Xenocity Comparing the two eShops to the iOS / Mac App Store is all fine and well.
But Nintendo isn't selling apps, music and movies.
They're selling games, so let's compare that to what Sony does with their game systems.
I don't see Mac or PC in Media Create. The 3DS isn't competing with the iPhone / iPad or iMac.
Conparing Nintendo to the competition, Nintendo is abysmal. Not really even in the same league anymore.
They might make better games (depending on individual preferences) but as for their business strategy? It's C grade while Sony's out there smashing sales records and doing 5x as much.
That's not entirely true.
It actually costs a lot of money to rerate an old title just at the ESRB alone. It literally costs a minimum $10,000 to get an ESRB rating for any retro title, it could cost upwards of $50,000.
You rerate it at PEGI (EU/UK), USK (Germany), Australia board, South Korea, and CERO (Japan) you are looking at between $70,000 USD to upwards of $350,000 USD for that old game. YOU ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE THE GAMES RERATED!
Then you have to pay a team to code and debug that ROM to ensure the game work properly on that system.
When everything is done and said with, you are looking at spending a minimum of $100,000USD to upwards of $600,000 USD. Some retro titles can cost as much a $1 MILLION USD to rerelease across the world. More if rights have to be bought.
It's not cheap to rerelease retro titles globally let alone in one country.
Each platform holder takes a 30% cut.
Let's say you spend $100,000 to get the game rereleased.
You need to sell 13,000 copies to breakeven at the $10 price.
FYI Pokemon RBY had a lot of work done to get them fully functional on the VC.
IT'S NOT CHEAP TO RERELEASE OLD GAMES!!
Actually you have to buy PSN+ to play online on PS4.
If you end your subscription, you lose the rights to all those games you were given for "free" and cannot play them without it.
I have purchased the same SNES games on my Wii and Wii U, and I will NOT be doing it a third time. There is no reason I should have to pay full price for these games AGAIN. I can't believe Nintendo isn't offering a discount to people that already own these games on Wii U or, God forbid, offering them for free. No excuses. It's 2016, have a damn REAL unified account system already, Nintendo.
As I've mentioned before, Sony is making you rebuy all your digital content on PS4 at full prices.
PS1 games range from $10-$20, with FFVII being the only major title currently available. The game costs $15.99 in the U.S. on PS4.
PS2 games cost between $12 -$20 with most costing around $20 in the U.S. on PS4.
There is no discount pricing or cross buy offered for those who own any of the retro games and digital content on PS3, PSP, PSVita who want them on their PS4s.
Again Sony is charging full price for all the digital content for PS4 owners and making you buy PSN+ to play online on PS4.
Microsoft has the same policy for Xbox One.
Here's hoping the NX will improve the VC model, but I'm not holding my breath. I refuse to repay for a VC game I got on Wii, for example, again on Wii U, and/or on 3DS. I haven't, and I will NOT, discount be damned (it should be FREE if I bought it even ONCE). So, if I have it on my Wii VC right now, you can best believe I will fire up the Wii emulator in the Wii U to play it, yessir. So, they ONLY thing I will be partaking in this latest stunt from Nintendo, is likely Super Ghouls and Ghost as that's on my "to get" list, and I have never, ever, played it or owned it. But SMW, F-Zero, etc, etc.? Nope, been there, done that. Lastly, I'll just say this latest program Nintendo is running is, of course, great for those that have a N3DS and have never played these classics, good for them, but for the gazillions of other Nintendo players who have played all these classics, and own all these classics, and have paid or re-paid for them, shame on Nintendo, implementation technicalities or no implementation technicalities.
I bought the games. I couldn't be happier to have SMW on my 3DS and the prospect of Super Metroid this week has me buzzing.
But yes, it is a bitter pill to swallow. I bought two wii u consoles on release and it has pained me for years that I can't even play my games on both my consoles (or even copy my saves!!!)
I always pay the money, like a idiot. But someday... My nostalgia will wear off and Nintendo are going to lose a valuable customer due to these kind of policies.
The time really has come for Nintendo to sort this out and get with the times. I've already bought these games when they came out. I've bought Mario world for the GB advance physically. I've bought it for the SNES. I've bought it for the Wii. I've bought it for Wii U.
If I didn't waste a hell of a lot of money on games I'd have quit Nintendo ages ago despite my love for their games.
I suspect that this is why so many people didn't buy Wii U and now hate Nintendo.
(I do think loads of people actually HATE Nintendo now and avoid their stuff out of principle)
They may have the cheapest console on the market. But by the time you factor in the games and all the bloody accessories you need, it really is a lot more expensive than Xbox one or PS4 in general (and that's including the subscription services on those devices)
Nintendo need to sort it out. They've needed to sort it out for years. But this 3DS virtual console is bound to be the last straw for many. Especially when I've been really hopeful of a turnaround, since they announced their new Nintendo accounts.
They need to wake up. God I wish I ran Nintendo for a week. I'd sort that place out. My directs would rock.
@Xenocity Same thing goes for Netflix, Hulu, Spotify, etc. That hasn't stopped millions of people from using those services.
This is the way of the future and I personally would embrace it.
I'm not an expert on esrb. However, a quick google search populates many articles indicating esrb extended free ratings for digital games starting in 2012. Is this not accurate?
Why should Nintendo change it, when Sony is doing the same thing to PS4 owners?
Sony says it costs a lot of money and work to get all the digital content to work on PS4.
I remember carrying a massive snes library around with me on my nds with a flashcard. I have long since reformed my ways but it still makes me feel like Nintendo is late to the punch and their pricing and pushing of new 3DS is just woeful.
Embarrassing really. When you look at how Sony have done it between their different formats it makes Nintendo look really bad. Sometimes Nintendo do things where they're just trying to test their fanbase, see how far they can push them. The pricing of SNES games on N3DS and lack of Cross Buy (even though they could easily do it using NNID. I have no idea why people think they can't) is one of them times. It's a bad joke.
No, that's only for games that receive digital and physical releases.
It doesn't count towards older content from prior generations.
We have Natsume and other 3rd parties on record about the costs of releasing retro titles on digital platforms.
You do know that Sony is forcing everyone to rebuy all their digital content at full price on PS4!
Of course I won't pay for multiple copies: and the Wii U Virtual Console is what won't get my money for the time being (save for "upgraded" Wii VC games), because I'm only paying for the 3DS VC.
@Xenocity You must be really fun at parties.
Let's face facts: Nintendo could turn a profit if the games were $4 or $10. And somehow I don't think that Game Freak, as friendly with Nintendo as they are, would charge the maximum price on that price range you provided (the accuracy of which I seriously question, by the way. Sources would be lovely).
Nintendo is not idiotic enough to think that SNES games on VC is a selling point to get people to upgrade to New 3DS. If it were possible on old 3DS, it definitely would have happened.
This is why I hardly ever buy VC games that and lack of funds.
Now That I know SNES is on N3DS I won't be bothering for WiiU VC copys unless its earthbound.
Why get Wii U copys, when you can get mobile/portable copys.
@Xenocity your 360 purchases carry to Xbox one if it's a game supported by the backwards compatibility.
They think we are fools.
Silly folk who love all things
Nintendo. So they lose sales.
@electrolite77 They won't do it across NNID because of the exploitation of that system which Nintendo apparently overlooked and either can't or won't fix: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/03/nintendos_implementation_of_cross-buy_is_surprisingly_generous
Nintendo never cared about royal fans ... Never and thy keep charging us lots of money specially year after year ... They always find a new way to rip you off somehow ... Like amiibo poopoocadoodlydoo ( buy it to unlock a cowpieish dlc or contact although you paid 59$ for a game sometimes !!! )
It's not cross-buy though. It was a one off.
Don't feel too bad. They are inept and at the very minimum should look to other consoles on how it is done, but ideally they should look to GOG.com at how it should be done. They should just release them restrictions-free as a file we can load on our consoles/computers. People who would usually pay will continue to, as they would not want to go to dubious websites and want to support further development. The people who won't pay for whatever reason will always find ways around price.
No. Because they're not. PS2 games have to be rebought (one of the reasons I won't be buying any), but I have plenty of games that are Cross Buy between PS3, PS4 and/or Vita.
Also if somebody owns a BC game on 360, they can download it for free on XB1.
@Xenocity lol do you work for Nintendo ? Or does they pay you for defending them ? I never saw any negative comment about Nintendo from you ... Because if you are a really fan you won't be happy with Nintendo policy the last 2 years ...
It's even worse when you know how easily these games are emulated on phones or PCs. Nintendo are almost punishing those who don't emulate by making the price so high per game. Sure you could say that they're doing that to compensate for the so-called loss they get from those who emulate, but the reality is they can & would still charge a high price even if there were no emulators out there. They're only thinking of the direct amount they can earn from every purchase & trying to get the most out of each one, rather than realising they would earn more in the long run if they incentivise people by making the VC consumer friendly in a Netflix-like subscription service. $10/month for access to Nintendo's current library of retro games (& with the promise to have more added in the future) would earn them soooo much money in the long run & I think would lessen the illegal side of emulation by being so cheap & convenient that users would just fork out the $10 instead of dealing with sub-par emulators, downloading ROMs & figuring out the right settings to get them to work.
They said it in the Pokemon RBY Direct about all the work they put into the games.
Or you can ask Serebii and he will tell you all the coding they had to do to make RBY work on the VC (he's posted it on this site before).
Nintendo could price their own games dirt cheap, to the point of losing money upfront. But 3rd parties wouldn't like that, because it would devalue their games.
Nintendo's shareholders would also be up in arms over it.
Shareholders are already upset over the prices of games being too cheap.
I mean you could price most major games at $40 and they'd eventually make a profit by the second week on the market.
I mean is an product overpriced if it makes a profit on the first sale?
A company has the right to price their products as they see fit and the market has the right to reject that price to force a new price.
I mean PS1 games normally cost the same price on PS4, Steam, Windows 10 store, Mac Appstore, iOS Appstore and Google Play store.
You literally pay between $10-$20 for PS1 classics on both platforms.
You literally pay between $12-$20 for PS2 ports on PS4, Steam, Windows 10 store, Mac Appstore, iOS Appstore and Google Play store.
Hell Sega charges ~$5-$10 on PS4, Steam, Windows 10 store, Mac Appstore, iOS Appstore and Google Play store for their retro titles.
Yet no one is complaining about the prices on these platforms (and DLC).
It's only Nintendo that gets flack for prices.
@ZenTurtle What isn't cross-buy? Olli Olli sure was cross-buy, and it definitely wasn't a one-off, though examples are few, there are more to speak of. Sorry I feel like I've missed something here.
Thats not really an exploitation though. Through psn I have PSN games attached to 2 PS3s and a PSP and a Vita. If you own multiple systems you should be allowed to play the game on all those systems.
From the article you linked, Once registered a NNID cannot be moved so it's not ripe for abuse. So what's the issue?
Really I've been accused of hating too much on Nintendo on this site and other forums.
I'm just pointing out how much work goes into retro titles and how much it costs to get them approved for sale from the rating boards.
I'm not defending Nintendo on price, Hell I don't plan to buy any SNES games on my n3DS and I didn't buy any NES games on it either.
I'll keep playing these games on my PSP, thanks Nintendo.
Actually PS1 classics are not cross buy on PS4.
Indie titles and some games are available if the publisher/developer wishes to do so.
But they aren't many.
Sames for Xbox One, publishers/developers aren't lining up to offer their games for free to BC owners.
@Xenocity And what's your stance on Nintendo's complete inability to offer sales that compare to the likes of Steam or the PSN?
This is a forum. Certainly, Nintendo can do whatever they want such as it's not illegal. Whether or not it's good for business to piss off your fan base is the debate.
I never understood the whole point of cross buy. Just because Sony could make it happen doesn't mean that the others can make it happen because cross buy is about getting the exact same game from multiple plats. I never in my life remembered myself buying multiple versions of the same game all because I got it on one platform and I'm fine with it.
This article is honestly more of a rant despite it being just an opinion. Have you ever asked yourself that to those who only have the 3DS and not Wii U, this is ideal? Sure, you can get them for the Wii as well but as far as showing support for various users, this sounds ideal.
The Wii U has GBA games on it and while I'm upset that its not on the 3DS, but at the same time, it doesn't matter. Why? Because I got lots of games for the 3DS to simply even bother about emulation at this point.
I'm sure that even if Nintendo did a cross buy, it won't satisfy people at all. Not even one bit.
@3MonthBeef I know right. The article itself doesn't state that and infact, its more of a rant rather than an opinion.
Why should it be free, exactly?
@Kirk "Nintendo's still pretty clueless it seems." - do you have their sales numbers, market analysis and sale projections? Or do you just whine because you want stuff for free without any "clue" if it would be the right business decision or not?
VC is way too expensive for me. I don't own a single one. I'd rather take a punt on some iffy-looking eshop game than pay VC prices for SNES games...
Look, I don't like paying twice. No one does. But this isn't the "launch of 3DS Virtual Console". 3DS VC has been around for years, without crossbuy. Was I honestly expecting that to suddenly change just because the platform is SNES instead of NES? Was anyone?
I get the argument from a consumer standpoint. And I'm all in favor of a crossbuy system. But, nobody is forcing any of us to buy twice. And when we bought the games on Wii U we did so KNOWING there was no crossbuy. Just like we bought our 3DS KNOWING there was no crossbuy.
So acting like we are being deprived of something we are entitled to, is disingenuous. It's definitely something I WANT, for sure, but I don't feel owed anything. If I don't wanna pay twice, then I won't. Simple as that.
They don't have a cros-buy system in place yet. Right now all they can do is issue codes, which not only can be abused by the 40 million 3DS owners without a Wii U by selling the code to pocket a profit, I've heard whispers of an exploit through secondary Wii U accounts. Until a proper infrastructure is in place, macro-level crossbuy just isn't happening.
It's about value. Let's say you own a carwash and your main competitor offers 2 washes to your one wash? Certainly the market is going to move to your competitor while your loyal customers are going to ask for more value. You can always say no, but that could make your remaining customers jump ship. People always want to feel like they get hood value.
Nintendo leave the sales up to developers/publishers.
Microsoft, Sony, Valve and Apple all leave it to the developers/publishers.
There is no mandated sales amount.
Lots of publishers and developers don't do steep sales on any platform.
I don't care if I have to pay for the same games over and over because I get far more enjoyment out of an $8 Super Mario World than I do a $60 new Wii U game.
I'll be getting SNES VC games I don't already own.......and Earthbound again...........I'm weak you guys! It fits so well on my 3DS!!!
There's always emulation. I mean seriously Nintendo should probably not be that worried about a few copies getting into peoples hand for free. What your talking about affects Nintendo far less than emulation and will never be done at a large enough level to worry about.
I mean most systems get hacked and you can install all the games for free anyway. Should Nintendo not sell consoles because they can become exploited?
@Sanicranfast It's only more expensive in the UK. Why is that you ask? Because for some odd reason Nintendo decided in 2012 to stick to the Wii prices, even though the Pound lost much of its value in the meantime.
Since you can link your eshops there is no reason not to offer a discount you already own a copy on the wii u (not to mention the wii). However Nintendo have chosen not too. Poor show on them for all their loyal fans. I am glad that snes games have shown up as a lot of younger fans will get to try them. Hopefully we will get a good selection going forward. Now I just to stop myself buying super mario world for the 4th time. I would love it on my n3dsxl
As @Xenocity pointed out, Sony doesn't let you transfer your PS1 Classics and PS2 Classics from your PS3 to your PS4, and then forces you to buy the PS4 releases of those PS2 games for $15+. I don't believe PS1 games are available on PS4 yet other than FFVII.
In that case, Sony is actually worse than Nintendo. Sony is ahead otherwise though.
As for FFVII, that game isn't even an emulation, it's a port of the enhanced PC port of the game running natively.
If Xenocity is right and FFVII is $15.99 on PSN, then Square Enix/Sony is overcharging. It's only $11.99 on Steam regular price (it was just on sale this weekend for $5.99 too).
If you want to spend money on the eshop spend it for new games, not for old roms original developers won't get any money from. There are many talented developers who deserve success with their new games like Steamworld Heist or Fast Racing Neo.
@ikki5 There is not a single emulator that runs SNES games flawlessly or even just GOOD on the original 3DS. So no, the original one is NOT capable of it. Next time check your facts.
@Simbabbad Check Google: Nintendo's numbers ain't so great from what I've read recently. Wii U is its worst selling home console in history. It recently reduced its 3DS sales forecast, if I recall correctly. It hadn't made a profit in a few years until recently. It's average review score aggregate has dropped recently. And it still hasn't full addressed all the account stuff, it seems. . . .
Not great really.
But, yeah, I'll whine when the ripping-off gets to the point it's just taking the utter p*ss.
No way will I pay for Super Mario World again. I bought it for the first time on Wii U when it was on sell for $5. Even though it was on sell, I recall buying it reluctantly.
@Xenocity The difference is Xbox One BC works with Digital and Physical copies versus Nintendo only working with Physical copies. That means you can take that game you got on sale for $5 on 360 and use it on your XB1 down the line. It's common sense to have cross buy if you have a proper account system.
A ton of PS4 Indies have cross buy with Vita, i buy a lot of Indies on Vita and always get a PS4 version with it.
@scamander Super Mario World launched on Wii U for £5.49 and has always been that price on Wii U. It's the 3DS that has been given some kind of bizarre price increase of £1.70 or so.
It makes no sense, if anything Mario World should be cheaper since the Wii U ROM is almost 5 years old now. Mario World itself is around 25 years old!
I stand by my old position that Nintendo needs to keep Virtual Console prices artificially high to avoid scaring off indie developers. The fact that $10 Pokemon ports from 1996 are bestsellers is proof that this fear is entirely justified.
Yes, PlayStation offers retro games for lower prices. But Sony can release the PSP and PS3 in rapid succession without losing support. Nintendo has never had that much third party loyalty.
I disagree on many things in your article but I'll just direct you to @BulkSlash's, @JaxonH's, @IceClimber's and @Xenocity's posts. SMH
@JaxonH That's kind of the point I was making anyway, but thanks for backing me up I suppose.
Steam sales constantly have games less tha $1 and they have the best base of indie developers.
I think the opposite. Nintendo needs to whatever necessary to sell systems and indies will flock here. It's not like people are thinking I bought a VC game instead of a newer game.
@Xenocity Thank you for providing this perspective. This isn't sarcasm, by the way. I was a bit snippy before, but you are right. People only complain when Nintendo messes up.
I am so tired of the dumb mouth breathers who shell out hundreds of dollars on FIFA, or AAA companies who thrive on season passes that so rarely deliver on their promises. I would encourage everyone, including and especially myself, to remember that Nintendo is still a great company, even with the VC's undeniable missteps.
I think the reason we're all mad at Nintendo is that they're one of the few companies left that we can completely trust to treat us fairly, and we don't want to lose that.
It was such a shame when Sony fell from glory. On PS3, the PS2 lineup and ESPECIALLY the PS1 lineup was nothing short of incredible. When the Vita came along, it got PS1 and PSP games. Amazing. But the PS4 got greedy, and charged again and then some for PS2 games. PS1 games are still nowhere to be seen. Shameful.
I would encourage everyone to be more positive, and I know that I am no exception.
@medalofhonorfan lol @ "exploitative pricing."
It's not medicine or food; it's a video game.
I whole-heartedly agree with this article. I'm beyond fed up with Nintendo's VC pricing structure. What makes it worse for me is that I LITERALLY just bought Earthbound a week before the direct and if I'd like to play it on a portable (which I would love to do) I'd have to pay another $10. It doesn't make sense to have to buy it again when there is an account system. Why can I share my account balance across Wii U and 3ds but not my VC games. I'm going to speak with my wallet and not buy it again. I'm fed up with this!
@cleveland124 But you don't have to own the other systems, you don't even need to have bought the game! Surely that comes under exploitation?
@Sanicranfast Yes, I know. What I meant is that Nintendo kept the Virtual Console prices they introduced with Wii for Wii U, even though the Pound lost much of its value in the meantime. This lead to the bizarre situation, that the UK is the only country in which GBA games are more expensive than SNES games (on Wii U). Now they have adjusted the price, which isn't really that surprising. I would have expected them to that on Wii U as well.
Sega 3D Classics. Insane amounts of labor to put each package of a game together and still it cost less than what I bought one of these games for. Shameful. Its not value and they know it and cynically put aside the obligation to offer it.
Won't be buying more. I regret the day one purchase but at least I've seen what it's like to have Snes on 3DS like the author also said.
@Oat Unfortunately for us a lot of people will still buy them because nostalgia. When nostalgia is involved, people seem to turn a blind eye to things. I bet if they released the PC port of FFVII physically for PS4 for $60, people would still buy it.
Just want to say I appreciate Nintendo Life for posting this article.
I realize that in this industry criticizing the company you write about might jeopardize a relationship with them. ie: not being given exclusive content to reveal, access for interviews, etc.
This articles criticism is extremely fair and well founded. Hopefully this discussion helps lead to what we all want - Nintendo being a success and making their fans happy.
I don't think VC crossbuy will really have any effect on Nintendo's success- surely it will make fans happy.
But I think Nintendo is two steps ahead anyways. Pretty sure the NX is going to permanently solve this issue.
@Xenocity please stop spreading misinformation, it's just disgraceful. The ps4 doesn't support ps1classics at the moment and if it ever will, the games you already bought from the store on psp/ps3/vita will be available for free since they are marked as "bought" on the store and are the same file. And you needed to buy them just once since they were introduced almost 10 years ago.
The FF7 game you are referring to is not a ps1 classic, it's a hd remaster (a port of the STEAM version) with trophy support and other bells and whistles that is even more different than let's say Ocarina of Time on the WiiU VC and the 3DS remake. The other games you are saying they are forcing user to rebuy are ps2 (not ps1) games upscaled to 1080p with trophy support and were never available on the older consoles. The price on digital GameCube (same era as ps2) games? Oh we don't have those in the first place. And the N64 ones are 2 to 4 times the price of the psx ones (same era). It's sickening.
As much as Sony is not a company I can force myself to Iove, they handle digital sales so much better than Nintendo that is just embarrassing.
I've only rebought 2 VC games from Wii to WiiU. I'll only be getting Pilotwings & Mystical Ninja when they're available on New 3DS, which I have both on WiiU but they're my favorites. Otherwise I'm not going to rebuy anything.
@BulkSlash Thanks for the very important accurate perspective on this. I myself find it absurd to think that Nintendo wouldn't want to sell SNES games to what are the majority of 3DS owners. As with Xenoblade, the reason is entirely technical.
IMO the New 3DS is completely worth owning even without exclusives. (and people forget that some games get upgraded graphics on the handheld)
@SanderEvers Duh. Of course it's not.
Sony does handle digital better, no question.
But the truth is prices aren't all that different. As you said where are those GC games from same gen, we don't have them? Likewise, where are those PSone games on PS4. Cause we certainly don't have those either.
It's tit for tat really- $20 for PSP games as opposed to what, $10-12 for DS games of the same generation? Any way you slice it, retro games are going to cost in the neighborhood of $5-20 depending on platform. Nintendo is cheaper in some regards, Sony in others.
I have most of the AAA SNES VC games for the Wii U and Wii. Pulling stuff like this and having split systems with no crossbuy platform makes me consider giving up on Nintendo and just going the underground Virtual Console route if you catch my drift... It's maddening.
I didn't say Nintendo exploited us. I said I wished the did cross buy better and it will cost them sales from me in the future. If you don't like that I'm sorry.
@SanderEvers We all get that. You're not adding anything new to the discussion here. Sorry
When I really think about it, If these SNES games can run on a weak @$$ Wii, other than architecture, why can't they run on the original 3DS? Or is architecture just an excuse?
Update: Did some research (if you could call it that), and turns out, the "New" 3DS STOMPS the older model with pretty much raw processing power sporting a quad-core processor. So there's that.
As far as the cross-buying, yeah... We could definitely use that.
Plenty of studies on the marketability of nostalgia. Somehow we manage to edit out any negative and only attribute positive feelings of reliving cherished times. Those feelings nearly always trump the knowledge that we might be being played by having to repurchase. Always bittersweet, no matter the issues with pricing; memories we cherish and yet can never fully recreate.
Of corse people only complain when Nintendo messes up and not when they do stuff right Kidding aside I try to be fair to Nintendo when the do things right. For me this is just another mistep in a line of many. $60 Twighlight Princess? Amiibos? Lack of third party support? No voicechat?
But they have brought a number of great games throughout the generation so I'm not upset I bought Wii U/3DS. But I'm going to wait to see if they fix some things on the NX before supporting it.
@JaxonH Yes no ps1 on ps4 really is a bummer and I hop they do something about it! But hey, you can play those games on Vita or PS3...or PSP. And considering you have just to buy them once, I feel like Sony is really cheaper on retro gaming habits. Also: frequent PSN sales. I have bought Fire Emblem 3 (PSP game) for 3 euros just last week...and I barely remember ever paying full price for digital content.
@MrPuzzlez The same way PS1 games couldn't run on the PSP, a much older system.... oh wait.
The 3DS is just not a technical system at all....
In Canada, at least BC anyway, Super Mario World is $11.29. Like how is that okay? Even without cross-buy or a discount, that is insane. Nintendo as a whole, is so out of touch with their pricing and buisniness practices, it's not even funny anymore.
Just got Resident Evil 2 and 3 for just $3 combined, and i can play it on my PSP, PS3, or PS Vita.
I've paid well over $400 on VC and don't plan on supporting it further. I didn't say I only want free. I said when I buy it I want a portable and a console copy. As discussed before Nintendo can say no. But I'm done putting money into that pit.
@Yorumi besides Animal Crossing including a bunch of free NES games they also the Zelda collections on Gamecube
Preorder bonus for Windwaker was Ocarina of Time with Master Quest.
Zelda Collector's Edition was the 2 NES games and the 2 N64 games. That was free with purchase of a console bundle, registering 2 select games with My Nintendo (NA original name of club nintendo), or a $20 Nintendo Power magazine subscription. (NA methods listed but other countries were similar)
Cheapest was probably North America's $20 magazine subscription for a physcal disc of 4 games that would sell for $30 digital a few years later on the Wii.
Never bought a virtual console game most of the time I can get the original game for a cheaper price
The convenience of having my games on a system I regularly play is worth paying for than buying cheap games for consoles I never play any more. I have some of the VC games on cartridge already, but I download the VC game and sell the cartridge, even with the DS games that I could play on 3DS. Suspend states and save states of the VC games are really appreciated.
I'm sorry, but why must we pay full price for games we already brought on the Wii U? It's supposed to be free. Not even a discount. F-R-E-E. And why is the SNES VC available only on the New 3DS? So that we have another incentive to upgrade if we haven't done so? Nope. Not going to happen. For me, at least.
I don't even care if the games are expensive (exaggerating a bit, but you get the idea), just let me buy it once and nothing more. That's what I'm going to keep on doing with the SNES games on Wii U.... I think it's even better that way. SNES games on the TV look fantastic.
You bought Fire Emblem 3 on PSP last week for 3 Euros???
Fire Emblem 3 is Mystery of the Emblem on SNES, a 1st party Nintendo exclusive that wasn't even released in the west. And certainly not on any Sony platform. So I'm puzzled as to what you're talking about
I don't own or play PSP or PS3. I've got 5 current gen platforms and that's more than enough!
** And truthfully, Sony HAD good crossbuy support for retro games last generation, but this generation there's not one single PSone, PS2 or PSP title that's eligible for crossbuy. Part of that is because they seem to avoid releasing the same platforms on Vita and PS4- probably because they know they'd just be working for free- spend all that time and money just to give the games away to everyone who owns them on the opposite platform.
So ya, the grass isn't much greener on the other side. Last gen was solid but this gen? Well, at least 3rd party indies are still holding it down.
@WiiLovePeace so much sense in one post it's like I'm not on the Internet at all!
Don't pick. Play those gems on your ps3, psp, AND vita.
@JaxonH LOL sorry ! BREATH OF FIRE 3! So much typing FIRE EMBLEM these days (HYPED) that I just auto-wrote it.
There's still Vita (better fit for retrogaming than ps4 maybe) but yes I want that ps1 support so bad.
This really throws into contrast the sterling work Sega and M2 did with the 3D mega drive games. An additive port, sweet performance on limited hardware and reasonable price point. A compelling proposition. These VC ports show how regressive Nintendo can be right now.
It would be awesome if this site had a button to bring you to the post that was replied to. I had to scroll along way up to see the original comment.
Let's put it this way. Say I buy a magazine in Google's Play Store on my phone. Do I have to buy it again on Google Chrome just so I can read it on my PC? Certainly not. It's there waiting for me when I open my Chrome browser.
With that I don't see this as "cross-buy." There's nothing that seperates the 3DS VC version of the game from the Wii/U VC version. I'm basically buying the same thing. So why do I buy the same thing twice if I don't need it?
Nintendo is a quaint company. They were so much more. They could be so much more. But they would rather not be. They would rather not change. That is fine, they can stick to the niche to which they have been reduced. It is a comfortable niche, and I say that as someone who has bought 2 Wii Us (for me & to have at my parents) and four 3DS models (only missing the N3DSXL). But I certainly will not buy digital games from them because of their restrictive practices. I will always buy from Sony because of the cross-play with PSVita.
For example, I've just bought Bastion for £3.39 (a steal!) and can play in my PS4 and PSV. Could have been you Nintendo!
Ah! Ok gotchya. I was like what??? He bought Fire Emblem on PSP???
Is he talking about Tear Ring Saga? Started to get hyped thinking that had released on the store lol
@iamDTS There is very little emulation, if any, that's being used to run PS1 games on PSP. Have you checked the architectures of both?
And for all the people using blargSNES as proof of SNES playback on o3DS, how much do you know about what's going on under the hood of that emulator? Spouting that it's accurate when it can't even run a lot of games is proof enough to the contrary. I should know. I'm one of the top contributors to the project. There are numerous timing issues going on because it's not working in a more cycle-accurate way. It makes a lot of shortcuts (such as the one @BulkSlash mentioned that I said in another comment section) that show themselves in a lot of games.
But what about the 3D Megadrive Classics? Be aware of one thing. For as much as the CPU in the Megadrive is stronger than that in the SNES, practically every other aspect of the system is weaker and not as complex. And the CPUs of each aren't even where most of the emulation processing gets used up. Even the M2 team in their journal were talking about the difficulties of getting base emulation of Megadrive games running on an o3DS, and the Megadrive, as mentioned already, is technically weaker and less complex than the SNES overall.
Regarding free stuff, we don't care so much about accuracy, so long as we can play the games. That's why emulators such as ZSNES were popular back in the day, but now with more powerful devices, we use others that are far more accurate. Nintendo chose the n3DS for SNES playback because it provides the power to run with the accuracy needed for something they are putting a price tag on. If it was all about money and the o3DS was capable of the kind of accuracy used, then they would have put it on the o3DS because of the tens of millions more of hardware units sold compared to the n3DS.
Complain about Nintendo's lack of cross-buy discount or whatnot if you like (as those are valid imo), but please, stop with the nonsense of SNES emulation on o3DS as if it's possible with accuracy.
I never bought any VC games for the Wii because I lived in a third world country that didn't sell eShop cards at the time, and I was too young to have a credit or debit card.
I recieved a Wii U last year and I bought a few VC games for it, but ultimately it doesn't appeal to me because I could always just play them on my laptop.
This N3DS VC however is the best VC news I've heard to date. For the first time I'll truly be able to play SNES games on a portable device (WITH BUTTONS and without an additional peripheral) and I have absolutely no problem paying full VC price for them.
@JaxonH I wish! Good taste, anyway!
I feel like we'll be playing a lot of the same games this year hahah (#FE? Persona 5?)
Ever since the initial promotion after the launch of the Wii U, all I could think was "Oh, now they'll have some top-notch specials every month, and I'll be stocking up on VC releases." Not even close. I don't expect every VC game to be 30 cents, since I'm not insane, but I think at a bare minimum, a rotating $1 VC game would almost guarantee that I'd not only pop into the eShop to snag it, but also, that I'd buy the vast majority of them. I bought every single one of the 30 cent titles for the VC launch, even if I had no real interest, because why not? I imagine a move like that would lead to people buying others at full price; say someone gets Metroid on sale for $1 and loves it, well, maybe now they'll pay full price for Super Metroid. It'd have kept the old structure in place and let people get great value, but as noted in this article, clearly most folks are happy to pay full price for VC games, so why change the business model?
I feel like a structure like this would encourage more robust sales for Nintendo:
1. NES games should be a max of about $2.50-$3 with regular $1 sales. Same for Gameboy/GBC.
2. SNES should be $5 max, with sales around $2-2.50 being routine. Same goes for GBA.
3. N64 games being no more than about $7 at launch, common sales hitting around $3-5 as time goes on. Same for DS titles (and seriously, when will we get these on the 3DS? Come on, now).
4. Gamecube games of $10 at launch, sales in the $5-$7.50 range being common.
5. Wii at $15 tops, regular drops to $7.50-$10.
I think they need to be FAR more aggressive with sales, and make the starting prices more reasonable, by far. I mean, I think I've even been pretty generous in my numbers above, as I think starting NES at $1 and bumping all the other tiers down by one would be a massive home run; I'd buy VC titles all the time at those prices. Otherwise, I almost never touch them.
I'm also 100% fully expecting that if Nintendo is insane enough to keep the current price structure, if they don't also implement a "Forever" edition of all VC purchases where they'll work on all future hardware, then they're certifiably nuts. Every major OS supports games across OS versions and hardware iterations; The idea of needing to start from scratch again for every single game is insane and beyond counter-intuitive. Make it so I can fire up every NES/SNES/N64 game (and maybe even the GB/GC/GBA/DS as well, since none of them are powerhouse consoles) I own on every Nintendo console I buy going forward, and if nothing else, there's a massive library of classics available at all times. I'd also buy with confidence knowing they'd function on all future Nintendo hardware.
In short, stop the insanity, Nintendo. Leverage your history and classic games, and do it in smart ways. The Virtual Console is a great idea, but now, it makes zero sense in modern times. Make the Virtual Console an app that you update for all future hardware, and make everything eternally cross-compatible, or simply stop it.
Who told you the Old 3ds could handle it?
I really hope that we get cross-buy, that purchases carry over, etc. But I don't think Nintendo owes it to me. Iwata talked a lot about not diminishing the value of games, and I agree that Nintendo needs to try to find a middle ground.
I wish some of you would defend your human rights as strongly as you defend some company taking you to the cleaners. Ba da boom!
What i want to know is if the PSP and Vita could offer PSP games on the store, why can't we have DS games on the 3DS eshop? Most of the DS games like Pokemon HeartGold have jumped up in price dramatically, and it would be nice if they could offer them on superior hardware...
We can only hope NX onwards resolves this issue. I want to buy once and play across all Nintendo systems.
@pandarino The comparison with Sony is irrelevant. Sony is an electronic giant. When they do cross buy it's done at pure loss. Making ports cost money and workforce from developers and beta testers (Sony has an entire studio who only does ports). That was always their tactics. Since we're much bigger than competition we take loss until competition die. Then we raise our price. That's why the PS3 was at $600, that's why the Vita had over expensive memory cards, that's why the PS4 has a paid online despite having the same quality as PS3's one. It's not a matter of who is good or evil, it's just companies using their strenghts to defend their interests. And again there are much better options on the eshop or psn than buying decades years old games from which origial developers don't get any money.
And I wish some people would speak out against human atrocities as much as they speak out about a freaking video game company selling a product.
Ba da Bing!
Here's my RPG lineup I'm planning on this year...
Fire Emblem Fates: Birthright
Fire Emblem Fates: Conquest
Fire Emblem Fates: Revelation
Zelda Twilight Princess HD
Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE
Monster Hunter Generations
Dragon Quest 7/8
Star Ocean 5
Final Fantasy XV
Zelda NX (a little presumptuous?)
And gosh darn is it just me, or is that Kirby game looking REALLY fun... I'm not really Kirby fan either
@nintendomasterr That's one of my worries too. (About it being not supported.) They are bringing lots of third-party SNES games to Japan though, so hopefully they bring those games over here.
I'm actually pretty lucky anyway because I was planning to buy a New 3DS soon anyway. No cross-buy is stupid though, but I will pick up Super Mario World which I don't have on Wii U. And can anyone confirm that SNES VC is supported on the US normal-size New 3DS? It might sound like a silly question, but NOA hasn't been advertising it anywhere that I know of, so I just want to make sure.
Rip off, rip off, rip off. Will people please not buy these games so Nintendo will get the hint.
@cleveland124 The problem with this logic is that Nintendo for a long time is known for making hardware as cheap as possible so asking them to do cross buy is expensive for them to do.
Nintendo is more about focusing on the blue ocean and not interested on doing what its competitors are doing. Xbox one doesn't have any cross buys and yet it sold more than the Wii U and is regarded just as well as PS4.
People don't realize that the CPU for the Wii U and the new 3DS are completely different interms of raw power alone.
i miss this console is great game for all times
I miss the Gamecube Era Nintendo, when they seemed to have sense and creativity still.
@Socar Microsoft will start offering cross-buy titles between Xbox One and Windows 10, through their Universal Windows Platform initiative.
If you pre-order Quantum Break on Xbox One, you'll get a Windows Store version as a bonus.
It honestly doesn't surprise me at this point. When it comes to download games, Nintendo seems to have absolutely no intention of competitively pricing ANYTHING that exists on their digital storefront. Then they increase the prices of games on n3DS even further because that makes total sense and is friendly to the loyal customers who bought the games previously or don't have the Wii U.
The pricing is NOT justified because of ratings, or scaring off 3rd parties, or any other lame excuse for them not to drop the price. Sony isn't perfect, but I got Klonoa on PS1 for less than £2. On a sale. Many of Sony's first party franchises sell extremely cheaply as well. If old games need the money that badly, then why do PS1 games have digital sales? And all of the console manufacturers are outdone by Steam, which allows me to continue my game on any PC, Mac or Linux device I like, so long as I authorise it beforehand, as well as have extremely steep discounts.
I'd like to think Nintendo will get their act together for the NX platform, but at this point, I know they won't. Their digital store front will still suck horribly, because they feel they are not in competition with anyone else, and that they can do as they please. They ARE in competition, and they NEED to do something about it. They can start by pleasing their current consumer base by not ripping them off with overpriced ROMs Please prove me wrong for NX Nintendo.
"Id like to think Nintendo will get their act together for the NX platform, but at this point, I know they won't"
I wouldn't be so sure. Those NX leaks were adamantly clear NX will play every game, every single last game, on TV or handheld because it is both. And considering the source was just proven dead on accurate with the following rumor Id say it's pretty close to being a given at this point.
I think people should chill out and wait for NX before getting bent out of shape. Cause if it is what it's rumored to be, they're about to out-do EVERYONE. Even crossbuy will seem like a joke because you actually have to buy 2 systems
@Yorumi The DS (and the DS hardware in the 3DS) contains 2D hardware that's improved from the GBA. That's the whole reason why SNES games could even be possible on that (and why GBA playback is possible as well without emulation). It's similar enough that if you ignore what it's not capable of (offset-per-tile, tile priorities within BGs, hi-res modes, etc), it's "acceptable enough" for something that's free. Even then, compatibility was pretty low.
The 3DS in 3DS mode does not have access to these. That's likely a design choice, that when Nintendo is ready to move on with the next handheld, they won't need DS hardware anymore (and by then, could likely emulate the DS itself)
I think that the whole deal with New 3DS is a mistake.
I got the device and I love the better 3D effect and the faster processor. The added buttons can be useful too in some games.
I like it as a machine, but I regret buying it and therefore supporting the philosophy behind it.
I detest fracturing the 3DS customer base between the models. That's just bad business practice. The New 3DS is not a new generation, so it's really confusing to have exclusive content on it.
The New 3DS seems to be just an attempt to prolong the generation because they couldn't get the next proper console gen out soon enough. I hope it's just an anomaly and not a sign of the things to come. In many ways the New 3DS is a lot like Game Boy Color. It was basically the old GB but with colors. It wasn't exactly a next gen Game Boy.
I hope future Nintendo will not follow the same practice with their future machines. It's just horrible to release a slightly modified version of a device mid-gen and making content on it that's incompatible with the older device iterations. If NX follows the same model of releasing sligthly upgraded versions often, then they should at least make the software compatible with older versions.
As long as people keep snapping these up at what I consider to be fairly high prices I can see no reason why Nintendo wouldn't just keep sticking with what makes them money for the lowest amount of effort, that being virtual console games. I felt kind of reluctant to even pay the buck and a half to upgrade my Wii VC games to their E-Shop versions simply because the thought of paying twice for something I already own, regardless of the improvements made seemed quite silly frankly. I have little problem with paying for them once but when you ask me to do so multiple times then I am simply going to have to pass on it. Admittedly though no one is forcing you to pay for the ability to play them on both systems as that is more of a personal choice but still there should at least be a heavy discount in my opinion.
I remember complaining about the Wii VC 9 years ago. Turns out, it wasn't all that bad compared to what we have today.
I'm glad I just kept my VC games on the Wii instead of transferring them.
I generally don't buy virtual console games if I already own them physically, but I had bought several of these during the $.30 deal and a few through Club Nintendo. I don't really want to rebuy them again, but I may make an exception for Super Metroid.
@JaxonH You are correct when it comes to playing NX games. Hopefully it extends to Virtual Console games sold on the Wii U and 3DS. Besides, I really hope some of these NX rumours are true, because the one that compares it's level of power to that of the Xbox One would make it a killer handheld system.
@Yorumi Ports =/= emulation. And as I already mentioned. The CPU is not where most of the emulation processing goes for these old systems. Offloading the PPU portion to the 2D hardware on the DS relieves A LOT of processing that otherwise would have had to be done via software (software-rendering that Nintendo is using for this emulator on the n3DS because the GPU cannot be used for it with the accuracy needed).
About the SNES games being full priced with little to no promotions on the New 3DS...
I think that the traditional model of making a console and selling games specifically for it, is getting outdated.
As a consumer on the PC and mobile market, I'm conditioned to think that it's normal to purchase a piece of software and have it be usable with all of the applicable devices in my disposal.
It would be crazy to buy all of my Steam games or Android apps all over again when I get a new PC or a new phone! This is what it feels like with the Nintendo systems.
Nintendo has all the rights to sell the same software separately for their various devices, but it's very counter-intuitive in the current market.
I'm not playing with 3DS or Wii U because I particularly like those machines. I play with them because they have the games that I want!
I play games, not devices. I would play Nintendo games even if they were on the PC or the PlayStation for heaven's sake!
Currently, Nintendo is selling digital software per device, which is archaic.
They should get on with the times and sell digital software per customer.
They should set up an account system already and start caring for establishing strong and lasting customer relationships instead of trying to make the most high margin possible instant profit on each sold item.
You have to think about it logically and follow it through to conclusion.
What's more profitable for Nintendo? To forfeit 50 million potential customers, per SNES release, in exchange for pushing a couple extra New3DS sales that they're probably making no profit on hardware anyways, and no extra sales from software because they're all upgrade purchases and not new customers?
Or, would they forfeit the couple 1,000 no-profit New3DS sales that yield little to no extra software sales, in order to sell games that basically sell themselves to a player base 50 million strong?
The fact they gain nothing by purposely withholding VC from the main base- in fact it will surely cost them a sizable sum of $$ challenges the credibility of that theory.
Especially given the NX will likely replace both platforms in less than a year if it's a hybrid (the final consolidation of platforms once and for all). They have absolutely nothing to gain by withholding and a whole lot to lose.
Which is why I was saying, if they could run on the hardware they'd have already done it by now. They put every platform under the sun on Wii U- there's no reason they would purposely withhold from 3DS.
@Xenocity Don't take this the wrong way, but I doubt third-parties are as opposed to cross-buy as you think they are given I can buy most PS1 Classics off the PS3 shop and play them on my PSP(and in most cases, my brother's Vita when we still owned that system.)
So, Square Enix, Capcom, Konami, Namco, and numerous other third-parties are cool with a customer buying a copy of a PS1 classic like Final Fantasy VII, Castlevania:SOTN, or Resident Evil 2 for the PS3 and then letting you transfer it to a PSP for no charge, but its suddenly an issue when it comes to Nintendo's hardware?
I don't buy for a second that third-parties are gonna be cool with cross-buy on one family of systems, but have an issue with it on another companies platforms.
I think its Nintendo's fault that we still don't have cross buy. If Sony can get third-parties to put out PS1 classics and those have cross-buy, then the issue has to lay at the hardware maker's feet.
What Nintendo needs to work on is putting DS games on the 3DS eshop. It should be able to run them no problem right?
A. Your missing the concept that I am buying a game. I just want more value for that game. Sony provides this so it's not a new concept.
B. Clearly if I've spent $400 on vc I'd be willing to spend even more.
C. Nintendos terrible pricing is a strong reason I am skipping the NX at launch. It's not just about whether I'll buy these games.
It's kind of like, ok, if they're a money hungry, greedy company because they refuse to offer crossbuy and charge so much for VC releases, don't you think such a money hungry, greedy company would capitalize on those 50 million potential SNES sales per title released?
It's like saying they're super greedy for charging so much and charging twice, but extremely selfless to just pass on 50 million potential sales per title just so New 3DS owners can feel good.
Know what I mean? If Nintendo is as greedy a corporation as many here suggest, I seriously doubt they would pass up such a significant profit.
@Yorumi Like I said, back then, inaccuracy wasn't a thing people cared much about, so long as they could play the games. ZSNES has some pretty low requirements, but it was highly inaccurate. Take note that N64 emulators ran like crap with using software rendering, which is why 3D-acceleration via video cards were pretty much mandatory. The N64 was based around rendering polygons to a full-screen buffer. The SNES is not. It's based on scanline rendering (which the DS provided with its 2D hardware albeit with not all the same features).
This is a tempest in a teapot. Considering how cheap these games are I just don't see what the big deal is. You already own it on another system? Play it on that system then! I don't expect to get handed over the same games I already own, for free, on another system, ever. If it happens, I consider it extremely generous by the game maker or console provider. What Nintendo did with the VC, from the Wii to the Wii U, was a gift deal and not expected to be carried forward forever. When I bought the original Zelda on the NES, I did not expect it to work on any other Nintendo consoles going forward. When it does, it's a bonus.
That being said, Nintendo needs to offer a VC subscription, for those who do want it. I would not, I already own these games multiple times on existing systems, but it would be a great service to offer to fans who do want it. I simply prefer playing most old games on their original systems.
Of course people realize the 3ds and wii u do not have the same power.
Nintendo can ignore competition at their peril. Right now the Wii U strategy is Blue Pond as only hardcore Nintendo fans own one.
A. I disagree Nintendo always make hardware cheap. They have since the Wii but pre-Wii they had some great hardware.
B. The reason Nintendo has focused on cheap hatdware is they want to make more money on hardware. At one point it was estimated they were making $150 per Wii sold while Ps3/Xbox 360 may have made a profit at the end on a console? So let's not pretend cheap hardware means they are hurting.
I just bought SMW, Earthbound and Metroid last year and definitely won't get these again. This is nonsense. They don't even care about making an unified eShop system for both 3DS and Wii U making such games a single purchase, neither allowing multiple accounts on a 3DS system so I can transfer other stuff I bought on my US 3DS and Wii U (which doesn't have accounts for my country).
The point about Wii games is valid. I would think they'd have their entire back catalog on offer by now. Maybe there's something to it we don't know, or perhaps the sales haven't justified the investment? Idk
I'm sure they make a profit from Wii games on eShop, but I always wonder, like, maybe per manhour invested in Wii VC they make $100 profit. But maybe over here doing something else they make $200 profit per manhour. So it's not that they wouldn't make money it's just that they can make more investing their resources elsewhere.
That's the best logical explanation I can think of...
One other thing to note regarding software-rendering on the 3DS. The 3DS doesn't use normal buffers for displaying images. They have to be converted to a z-order curve format.
Steps were taken with blargSNES's to optimize this conversion (both in its software-renderer and hardware-rendered, the latter converting each unique tile and storing them into a texture cache), but the conversion in of itself drives up the requirements for such rendering.
Hear hear. With these prices I will not buy a single SNES VC game on the New 3DS. Already bought most of them on the Wii, and some again on the WiiU.
The original VC on the Wii Shop Channel was the height of their game, since that it has just gone downhill (with the odd exception of NTSC versions for PAL regions).
Digital has really changed the game and expectations for what you can do with those games. I will play the games on many systems I am. But my fear would be Nintendo pushing those would be sales to people that will just emulate them.
Thomas, stop buying it.
I did stop and feel much better. After seeing the wonderful job M2 did with the Sega Genesis I started looking at the VC with suspition.
I love it, don't get me wrong. Currently I am playing Breath of Fire 2 and Street Fighter Alpha 2. Just finished Mario & Luigi. I love that. Am still waiting for Lufia 1 and 2, though.
But I am okay of having those games available for me ONCE. I don't get why Nintendo keeps releasing them instead of getting new games.
The streaming is a wonderful idea. It's a pity Nintendo does not think so.
I had no problem "upgrading" my Wii VC games to Wii U as even though there was a small price there was new features and I could choose to play the game in Wii mode and not upgrade if I wanted to.
This is crap however. What's the point of linked accounts if you are paying for the game twice and it has no new features? Not even a discount if not crossbuy? Charging a buck or 50 cents to have it on the other system would still feel like a rip off but it would be a tolerable one.
I love Nintendo games and systems but some of the marketing and sales people, the ones at the top need to be fired. If they are getting these instructions from higher up then that person needs to be fired.
Seriously, if Nintendo wants to turn business around with the NX the heads have to come out of the arses.
Didn't the 3DS Virtual Console start with only handheld games? That's probably why they never planned on doing cross-buy. They probably wanted to do GBA games on the 3DS but realized early on that it wasn't up to their standards, and then pulled it back out of the trash for the Ambassadors. This world now where DS and GBA games are on the Wii U and SNES games are on the 3DS has drifted pretty far from their original vision.
The only way they could even partially remedy the situation is by giving multi-buyers more My Nintendo stars/coins or whatever.
The pricing is rediculous. It always has been. I have always been shocked at the price of their retro games, mainly because they're so easily downloadable for free on the internet.
Some sort of cross-buy has to be implemented into the NX/Nintendo Account or I'm not interested(!)
Yeah.. not getting these for this price AGAIN. I will get the GBA versions at least since they're different enough for me purchase to warrant another purchase, but this really has got to stop.
I have such a backlog of 3dsand pretty much any other systems games (looking at you fire emblem) I've never really got into VR games So I guess I'll get earthbound on my new 3ds as it seems like a game that would work really well probably! When it comes to me and VR games if I can get the game physically (fire emblem GBA for example) I will, I much prefer having the OG cartridge. The fact cross buy was never a thing baffled me! You'd get so many more sales Nintendo! More people would dip in as they'd be willing to if they knew they could get the same game portably they'd know they would have lots more freedom to play, that is if cross-save was a thing (proabably not). The fact people want a discount for a game that they've already bought shows how bad things are when they're still willing to give you some money Nintendo for a game they've already bought! The fact the Wii-Wii U did this shows how Nintendo just wanted more people to upgrade to wii U if they knew they could get their games on their wii U obviosly they don't have much faith that people would do so for the New 3ds
That's part of the reason I don't own a PS4 yet. I have too many games to play on that I bought on PSN for PS3. Tied to my account that I would have to pay for again. For full PSN price not summer sale etc.
@cleveland124 I didn't say you said that, and I agree with you, I was just talking about the problems with implementing cross-buy within the current infrastructure...I think. It's hard to track what has been said in the comments on this site because there are no comment threads to refer to.
I don't understand why Iwata gets so much love if he was probably the one behind this whole VC mess as head of Nintendo. Nintendo's probably following Hollywood's release a movie on DVD, release the same DVD as special edition, release it again as ultra deluxe edition, release it as uncut never before seen edition, release it barebones on blu-ray, release it on BD as special edition and so on (Think Star Wars and Terminator). I wonder if Japanese gamers are also upset about the lack of cross buy or just us Western gamers? The only way to possibly get Nintendo to change its ways is to forward all angry comments to Nintendo rather than posting them here which wouldn't change a thing.
Comments won't change Nintendo. The only thing that will change them is a lack of sales.
@JaxonH wow throw in Valkyria Chronicles and it's exactly the same as mine. like 100%. Playing Bravely Second atm.
"The pricing is NOT justified because of ratings, or scaring off 3rd parties, or any other lame excuse for them not to drop the price."
Bingo. Well said.
"In short, stop the insanity, Nintendo. Leverage your history and classic games, and do it in smart ways."
Exactly what I've been saying for ages.
Oh I forgot about that one! Yes that too! Already got it preordered
I don't mind that the games are only on the New Nintendo 3DS (I actually bought it because I suspected this might happen). And I don't even mind that the games aren't offered free with an earlier purchase - Nintendo needs to make money after all. But what really grinds my grits is that there's no kind of save data transfer between the 3DS and the Wii U. This has GOT to be possible, considering the two systems were designed to communicate with one another. It's the difference between paying a little more to have portability and paying to own the exact same game on two completely disconnected systems.
So far I haven't duplicated a single purchase between my Wii U and 3DS, out of protest. I may finally break that rule for Mega Man 2 or Kid Icarus (which I bought on the 3DS before even owning a Wii U), but as for these SNES games, I definitely won't be buying any I already have.
I'm super stoked for this. I'll gladly pay the price for Super Metroid etc. again. Cuz let's be real. These games are easly some of the best games EVER made. On the go at that!
And it's not like you pay full price.
I'd rather pay that tiny price for a amazing game like Super Metroid, than paying full price for som tacky AAA-game like uncharted or Quantum Break.
@bitleman How is the comparison irrelevant, they are the other big gaming company selling digital versions of beloved old games for their new hardware, and are using a model that is more considerate to their customers. And in the case of these games its not selling at a loss...it's just the same file. And optimised emulators on different consoles able to read that same file. Something Nintendo should plan for the future (hopefully)
People will always want new games and people will always want to play these classic old games without the inconveniences and hurdles of dusting off their old consoles and connecting them to their modern TVs. There's no need to rip them off and alienate even the most loyal supporters with corporate greed.
Unfortunately, I'll be buying Super Mario RPG if it ever gets released since it doesn't run all that well on PSP.
@SuperiorTech Funny i'm playing Super Mario RPG right now on my PSP. The game doesn't run perfect, but it's still very much playable for me.
Everybody is mad at this one. I will only buy RPGs (which they have not released.)from SNES or stuff that doesn't come out. I will not hold my breathe. There is an exception that is Donkey Kong Country.
Yeah, it definitely can be played, but I guess I'm a little more picky about its performance.
"The broader Nintendo fanbase is harming its own chances of meaningful modernisation."
Hasn't this always been the case?
The thought that Nintendo is holding back the games from the old 3DS to sell more New 3DS units is just completely stupid. As the article points out, the old 3DS could barely run GBA games, and it ran them poorly.
You don't need to look at hardware power, though. All you need to do is realize that not putting the games on the old 3DS is costing Nintendo a boatload of money in lost sales, and that they'd have to have a REALLY good reason to do that. "They want to sell more New 3DS systems" is not a good reason to do that. You know what is a good reason to do that? The old 3DS being incapable of properly running these games.
@Beluganator You do pay full price. There is no discount if you already bought the game once.
I wonder how many people are complaining that actually own a N3DS? You have a legitimate complaint if you own a N3DS. Nintendo really does need a cross buy system. I own these games on my Wii/WiiU so that is where I will be playing them. It is that simple people. Please move on there is nothing to see here.
@cleveland124 Honestly, Nintendo will most likely just max it out to HD graphics at this point of time. I don't see them doing graphics beyond that.
What they can do is allow more supported game engines for the NX which is possible to do.
@Shiryu You could always buy a PSP and softmod it!
I can buy games on my Android tablet that is synced and compatible for my phone, I don't have to re-purchase a thing. Even if I change my Tablet and my Phone, my purchases are still available to me. These are modern day business models, Nintendo seems to be always behind with current business models and to focused and inventing something new and it doesn't always work. I hope the new Nintendo Business Model for NX and beyond is more up to date.
I'm no techie but to me this is just borderline criminal that Nintendo has the gonads to pull this on us again! Cross buy has been already implemented with a few indies(whoa Dave comes to mind) and they probably required Nintendo's assistance to get it done! So why the hell cant Nintendo do it with their vc games?? At the very least a Wii to Wii U discount should be available!! I don't have an new 3ds but even the 3ds now I have only purchased vc games that simply are not available on Wii u! And I refuse to double dip again!
It's insulting enough that they're are soooo many vc classics still missing and can be easily made available with little effort but I just can't justify rebuying these SNES Classics ....yet again! They better straighten this crap out when the NX comes out or I'm done for good.
And let's not even get into what sega has accomplished with their classics!! Someone mentioned here that Nintendo only reacts to poor sales and then they change their ways? So what happened with the Wii u? They're still scratching thier heads over poor sales yet they haven't changed a damn thing!! Oh and once again it seems like NOA is once again content with giving us 1 vc title a week! Again!! Will there ever be a build up in momentum?? Im sorry maybe if Sony never introduced the concept of cross buy then we wouldn't know any better! But they did...!!
This article was amazing! And glad you didn't pull any punches. The way Nintendo has handled this shows they have no clue nor care about their loyal consumers.
Noone is going to buy a N3DS to play, or re-purchase, SNES VC games. But they "might" have had incentive to upgrade their 3DS if they were able to get those games for free, being that their WiiU & 3DS NNID's were tied to one another. (and they had them purchased on their WiiU console.) But, as always, Nintendo knows we will just re-buy the games so why should they even attempt to bother when they know they can get away with it.
@hcfwesker couldn't have put it better myself. The extra insult is the notion that you HAVE to buy a NEW 3DS or you're just outta luck is just astounding from a business standpoint!! Foul!!
Nintendo could have kept everybody happy by releasing a cartridge compilation of snes classics but i mean that would make far too much sense in 2016 i mean because obviously it would sell less than VC N3DS exclusives : l
Problem with nintendo is they have been making it up as they go along this gen, most nintendo games even feel like they were thrown together quickly rather than carefully planned years in advance, They are becoming more and more like mobile devs rather than console.
I ain't no programmer, but it shouldn't be rocket science to run a few games from the 1990s on a 3DS.
@mjc0961 yeah and this is nintendos fault in the first place for releasing an underpowered original 3DS, The fact fans are arguing and are mad rather than enjoying the 3DS is proof nintendo have completely messed this system up.
Saw the direct, was like finally snes games on 3ds, wait what new 3ds only
Ok I got one of those I'm good to go, saw the price and no cross buy system was like yeah I'm good to go nowhere near these games at these prices especially when I already have a couple of these on wii u.
Just stupid on Nintendo's part here, and I find it amusing that Sega has supported their 16 bit back catalogue on Nintendo's handheld better than Nintendo has theirs and the sega 3d classics have added bells and whistles while (i think) they have been cheaper than the snes releases
Most of what Nintendo does is still focused on a very out to date business model that unfortunately works still because the consumers still will purchase it. Most of the games Nintendo releases should hit the $39.99 or $29.99 (or even $19.99) price point within six months, yet Nintendo artificially holds the high price point. Most Wal-Marts have a beautiful example of that with the collective trash known as Metroid: Other M still selling for $59.99 despite being released almost six years ago to poor sales.
Nintendo could have taken this as an opportunity to turn everyone's old VC library into a gateway drug for buying a N3DS. I know had they announced all my previously purchased NES/SNES games on Wii U carried over to the N3DS I would probably be playing on one now in my hotel room. That $199.99 price tag becomes much more bearable because I know I will have a already built in library of games to start playing once they download.
It's not so much being a sucker for nostalgia, but more having the choice only between a hot pile of garbage, and a regular pile of garbage...
@Kid_Sickarus Hahaha, thanks!
I have them SMW and Earthbound on my beautiful blue new 3DS, Try picking the 2 of these on cart for 10 notes
SNES games on the New 3DS did gain a little interest from me as it'd be great to play some of them on the go. Then when I heard that there's no such discount for buying them on the same NNID on a different console (Wii U), it's a no buy from me.
I'd probably get 1 or 2 if I was THAT desperate to play a favourite game of mine on the go like if I was on holiday (Particularly EarthBound), but I'll likely have other handheld games to play anyway. So I'm going to hold off SNES games on the New 3DS unless Nintendo offers a reasonable discount for also purchasing them on the Wii U, which I don't know if they ever will at this point.
For the record, charging a few pound extra for NES and SNES games on the 3DS Virtual Console in comparison to the Wii U is ridiculous.
Not buying a single of one of these...mainly because I still won't upgrade to New 3DS from my MM3D XL, lol. Had I decided to upgrade for Xenoblade (I don't really need that game as a portable experience) I doubt I could resist buying EarthBound and Super Metroid. Shame on Nintendo for not at least offering a discount if you already own these on Wii U, that's a really annoying business practice that is turning off everyone from trusting the virtual console from now on.
@MyLegGuy The hardware specs on the original 3DS are more than enough to handle it. All you need it the proper emulator to optimize it.
Not even the emulators on the Wii U play it perfectly, it is all how you optimize the emulator. Everything on the 3DS surpassed the SNES hardware. If it could work then, it could work on this.
Great article. Pretty much mirrors my thoughts on the issues. It's disgraceful carry on from Nintendo on various fronts. From making the SNES VC games New 3DS exclusive, to the overcharging on games or that they keep charging for each iteration of the same game on each platform. The sooner the NX gets here the better, and hopefully finally kills off this archaic practise once and for all. Nintendo will be sickened when this happens, it was so much easy money for very little effort. I wouldn't be surprised if they try and find a way to get around this, like maybe introducing an annual subscription rate.
Someone made a valid point about architectures being different between the 3DS and WiiU. So additional resources has to be spent by Nintendo/indie developers to bring their VC titles and eShop games to both platforms vs. only one. So some of the indies that offer cross-buy are taking a loss to give both versions to fans. Imagine a developer for iOS allowing you to buy their app on Android for free if you bought the iOS version, just won't happen. We just need to accept that there is effort to port these VC titles and eShop titles to both 3DS and WiiU.
For those peeved about SNES exclusive to N3DS, wouldn't it be more greedy of Nintendo to release to both original 3DS and N3DS? I doubt profit from potential new sales of N3DS would outperform the potential of SNES VC sales from +40 million original 3DSes out there. There is some validity in the hardware claim.
@getyourak "Charge $10 a month for a subscription service that lets you play every virtual console game for free."
"Charge $10 a month ... you play every virtual console game for free."
"Charge $10 a month ... for free."
Does not compute XD
@Pianomanfreak If you didn't want to hear other people's opinions, maybe you shouldn't have come to a comment section. You know, where people can voice their opinions? Telling people to "grow up" and "quit complaining" just because they have differing opinions than yours isn't the most reasonable thing to do.
I'm glad this article was written, because Nintendo really can't keep handling the Virtual Console this archaically when the NX comes around. Moves like this don't give me much faith in what Nintendo has to come.
@neyoung8 I agree with you!
@FlaygletheBagel You're absolutely right I shouldn't tell people what to do. Here my 2 cents on this Nintendo themselves cause this problem with the virtual console especially the pricing. They are living in the past. Maybe the NX will change that. Also keep in mind Nintendo is reviving the virtual console on the New 3DS so new 3DS owners can enjoy classic games which also means less virtual console titles on the wii u.Also I won't be surprise if the gba games get release on New 3DS
I may have considered them at $ 7.99 for a few of them but oh no, we are getting them for $11.29. Not putting up with a $3.70 increase over a Wii U copy. Especially when the ones I'll want I likely own in other forms.
Thanks Tom for a great article. It's difficult to defend the big N with this VC pricing scheme. I'm trying to keep a positive attitude, but it's difficult. I suppose it's not beyond Nintendo to offer a future promotion, but it can't come soon enough. Until then I may grab Earthbound, but that's probably it. It's sad that as a proud fan and owning each of these on Wii U that I'm not offered some type of promotion. I won't use this to become cynical like some and stoop to justifying piracy but it's still just sad that Nintendo would stoop to milking it's N3DS owners on this.
@Kirk agreed im OUT and marching with my feet this practice is archaic and a BIG RIP OFF i like Nintendo games but as a company not really not for some time.
IVE said this before and ill say it again just LOOK at what Sega have done and how they have priced and treated their classics and then look at Nintendo it TELLS you a WHOLE lot of their mentality towards us the consumer.
Don't rant and rave on a Nintendo fan boy site. They only react to purchases. Don't buy them. I'm not buying any Pokemon generation 1 games for the crazy price they are and the SNES games are too high, too.
I will wait for the games to go on sale in the future during the winter or post - E3 sales that generally happen.
@ikki5 Except it really doesn't, not with the accuracy Nintendo is looking for when they place a price tag on it. Just doing software-rendering to a buffer that's limited to z-curve order to work with the system's GPU is already too much for the system to handle, especially since the SNES's graphic format isn't even bitmap, but bitplane, so conversion has to be incorporated.
@mjc0961 You really don't actually. The price on a SNES game back in the day was like $60. So I think it's fair. But that's just my opinion.
There aren't many things nintendo do that really irritate me but this is one of them. I think it's disgraceful that they are charging for these even for people who already own them 3 or 4 times over.
For some of those I have the original, then the wii download, then the wii u upgrade and now they want more money, it's disgusting and I for one won't be downloading a single one.
I still have a working Super Nintendo and nearly 50 perfect condition game cartridges. I always wanted to be able to play these on a portable system. Specifically games such as SECRET OF MANA, Final Fantasy Mystic Quest, Wordtris, Family Feud, Wheel Of Fortune, Yoshi's Cookie, Tetris Attack, Pieces, COOL SPOT, Vegas Stakes, Super Bowling, and Shanghai 2 Dragon's Eye. I bet that there is literally zero chance that any of these will end up on the 3ds virtual console.
I just did a Google search and found that Apple's App Store has the iOS perfect emulation of Secret of Mana for $7.99 so why even bother getting a new 3ds and hope they someday get that, when I can play it today on my iPad for the price Nintendo would charge for that on the Eshop if they ever get it! And I also want to add that I want Side Pocket too for 3ds. Having this little monochrome GameBoy version on 3ds is ridiculous. We need the Super Nintendo version.
@Xenocity I was talking about all the games I buy once and can play on my Vita, PS3 and PS4.
@BlargSlash: Thank you for being one of the only people here to do actual research instead of knee-jerk reacting
Definitely not possible to emulate half the games announced on the o3DS.
On the topic of having to pay $13 for the same game again. If we're suckers, then that's smart strategy from Nintendo.
Having to pay over $20 AUD each for the PS2 classics and PSOne classics re-released so far on PS4, not cross-buy there for their "VC". All that was added was trophy support and a couple of features for FFVII, that's it. Could be worse to be honest.
My ultimate fantasy is for Nintendo to have a PS+ style subscription for VC games on the NX.
@iamDTS That's very true. That's what makes this all the more frustrating. Nintendo is a king at exploiting nostalgia!
@cleveland124 Nintendo seems like pushing upgraded versions of their older handhelds just before the new generation is released. Happened with GBA SP and DSi for sure. They know people will buy it. It almost look like they release outdated model on purpose, just to force people to buy an upgraded model later.
So I can buy for my old 3DS those Sega games cleverly remade by M2 with audio and video options, autostereoscopic 3D and other extras for € 5 while I need a New 3DS to buy a Snes rom for € 8...
@belfastgonzo I have one, done so, was very disappointed with SNES emulation. It's about the only system that does not run well on it.
@Splatburst That's fine, I know with topics like this opinions are varied. It was an editorial rather than talking point partly for that reason.
When will Nintendo ever get a unified account system?
I know My Nintendo accounts are coming soon but is it simply just another Club Nintendo Reward Program?
Is a My Nintendo account actually going to allow us to buy a game once and 'own' it so we can use it on both Wii U, 3DS and NX?
Can we delete the game we have brought and re-download it onto another system just by logging in, without doing a system transfer of our old systems?
Or are they going to keep making us pay for the games every time on different platforms and when we buy a new system and don't transfer our old system over?
I am disappointed Nintendo.. get your act together.
The only things I want is a Nintendo Account that will allow me to have cross buy and be able to sign in and re-download games I have brought. I am over paying for the Virtual Console games again and again.
I'm going to wait for the NX and the new My Nintendo account system before I make any more purchases to see if anything changes.
See, this is exactly why I have NO faith in Nintendo to learn from their mistakes. What the heck?? What's the point of Nintendo Account then? Honestly, I don't care about a loyalty program/Club Nintendo replacement: I WANT A UNIFIED ACCOUNT SYSTEM. Is that too much to ask?? (Apparently.) And regarding that headline, "This cycle is surely ending..." — Don't be so sure. In my mind, this doesn't bode well for the NX: how are they going to get the system right if they can't even implement an online account system in accordance with, I dunno, what every other company's online account system does in the 21st century?? The idiocy level in Kyoto knows no bounds...
PS1 Classics aren't on PS4 so I didn't mention them. They are however transferable between PS3, PSP and Vita which is far better than what Nintendo have managed.
You stated categorically "Sony is forcing everyone to rebuy all their digital content at full price on PS4!". That is wrong.
Wow. So it's technical ineptitude as well as poor business practice. Lovely.
It should be that if you previously bought them on another console, you should get them on the other system. The fact is, though, is that when the NX comes out, and the virtual console comes on that, it will be the same exact games available (slowly coming out each week). That's my only bad thing that I have against it. There are so many games on the NES, Super NES, N64 and we get the same exact ones (sometimes with multiple versions of the same title). It would be nice to get some new ones, even if it means that nintendo has to give a little big more money to other publishers to get those retro-classics. Nintendo needs to start listening to their fans more, ask them on which games they'd like to see re-released and what kind of retail games fans would love to see. If nintendo listened, then F-Zero and Metroid would have come out on Wii U.
While I see the point of this article and really hope Nintendo modernizes with NX, I feel the need to point out that nobody's forcing anyone to re-buy the same games over and over again.
I'm actually happy they released SNES games for the N3DS. I've never owned a SNES and now I payed 12 euro's for Super Mario World and Earthbound, two games I've always wanted to play, and I couldn't be any happier.
Like Thomas said, Nintendo is totally out of touch. €10 for each GB Pokemon??? €8 for purchasing a dated ROM for the third time??? Nintendo is alienating their customers even more, like if there were not enough people already going towards PlayStation or Xbox. The die-hard fans are getting what they deserve, and Nintendo is grabbing some dollars and euros here that are more valuable than their currency. But, at the end of the day, more people are getting sick of their business policies, more people are saying "you are not ripping me off any more". It's very clear that Nintendo is losing customers since they went a little too crazy after Wii's success.
I own both Wii U and New Nintendo 3DS. Super Mario World is probably my all-time favourite game, I got it on Wii and Wii U, but not paying any more until we get a decent Virtual Console pricing scheme AND cross-buy. You have to pay €30 for the three GB Pokemon ROMs. For that money you can get awesome deals (e.g., HD compilations) elsewhere.
"This cycle is surely ending..."
Ehhh, NO! Nintendo keeps dishing up those games over and over and over again. Mark my words: The NX e-shop will be another restart!! They never learn!!
People who worked with 3DS homebrew had troubles with the capabilities with the Old 3DS. In fact, if the emulator is to run at a decent speed in the Old 3DS, a far less accurate emulator is necessary. I can see why the releases are exclusive to the New 3DS.
The manuals... 3DS manuals are always more basic than the Café ones.
I remember reading that Mr Iwata was upset that a friend of his bought a Revolution yet only played Virtual Console games. Despite Mr Iwata's death, I can see this feeling continuing through all Virtual Console. After all, since when were Virtual Console games any equal to retail games?
I totally agree this is nothing more than a ploy to drive sales of new 3ds. The new 3ds has sold well so I guess this dick move is sorta make for the short-comings of the 3ds. The 3DS has a good enough cpu and gpu to easily emulate the SNES stuff its lazyness again just the gba virtual console. Technically I kinda sorta get it nintendo like to use low clockrates on their portable consoles to achieve a better battery life (they also use quirky optimization routines).
It used to do this because the relationship between power and speed is not linear. Running at 50% speed does not mean it only takes 50% as much power. The curve generally tends to be exponential in nature, so you might save 20% power by lowering the speed to 90%, but going down to 80% might only increase the power savings to 30%, and 50% speed might save only 35% power. Thus, if you run at 90% speed, it might take you 10% longer to do a task, but that is more than made up for by the 20% power savings. Trying to run at 50% speed though ends up costing you more energy since you spend twice as long but only save 35% ( 2 x 0.65 = 1.3x the energy ).
Simply they choose battery life over performance so why not just up the clockrate as need no would mind this plus you get the best of both worlds. Though I sure this isn't the issue here.
As a service the virtual console sucks overpriced and dosen't off much compared to other more mature emulators. Lets take the oracle games for example all you have to do flip one bit in memory to access gba features which most mature gameboy emulators can do. Was flipping one bit really that hard for nintendo.
They charge a heavy premium for virtual console games, which quite frankly are the laziest emulator implementations I have ever seen. Just take a look what M2 have done with the 3DS classics they put nintendo to shame.
Step up nintendo.
And as for the price and buy things titles more than once. Yeah that totally sucks.
Maybe nintendolife could run a campaign to have parity if you buy one game once you have a license to use it on current and future nintendo devices like IOS and android pc mac do to.
Nintendo are exploiting us so let stand up.
Nintendo is turning from "sadly out of touch" to "this is a train wreck!" I still love these systems but the value gets worse and worse as time goes on. No way I'm supporting the NX or any new system from Nintendo.
You could just not buy the VC games. Just a thought...
The old 3DS is powerful enough to play SNES games. Not supporting the older hand held is a d*ck move by Nintendo.
If virtual console support on the WiiU is any indication of whats coming I wouldn't hold my breath for the New3DS.
By only supporting the New3DS they are reducing the majority of the customer install base and third parties won't want to bother with it.
Send Nintendo a message by not buying it then
I think I have stomach cancer.
For all posting how nintendo is going to suddenly get everything right with NX re: account system, online, cross buy...bless.
Why would anyone buy a n3ds at the present time until more info about nx is released/leaked or whatever ninty is calling it these days?
"SNES games being exclusive to the New 3DS and skipping the older hardware"
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! They're exclusive to the New 3DS?! W.T.F!
That's it Nintendo. I've had enough of you alienating me. You can kiss my ass after decades of buying your products...
a) It's ridiculous you want me to keep buying the same game I've bought over and over again and;
b) The "original" 3DS is easily powerful enough to run 25 year old SNES games. (my DS can play Mario 64 ffs!)
Shameful but Nintendo's loss, my money's going to Sony...
Well, as it was mentioned in the article, people that pay full price for these emulated games, especially multiple times, only enable this practice to happen.
Nintendo hasn't gotten any of my money from virtual console games in years. I'd rather go to the PSN store, where things are always on sale, and even when they aren't, the prices on old games are still better.
@greengecko007 Exactly. We need to vote with our wallets and I certainly am.
The PSN store makes eshop look like a joke. There's always sales, always lots of new content, cross-buy, better pricing etc.
Nintendo need to wake up and smell the coffee...
@Xenocity Lets just gloss over that FF7 on the PS4 has updated graphics and is in native HD...
Pretty late to the discussion but I just realized that super mario world is 2 players with one controller. Normally you would hold L and R then press y to changeto the second controller. The snes uses the L and R buttons so you have to hold ZL and ZR then press y to change to the second controller.
@datamonkey @Dauntless @Sionyn Again, the o3ds "cannot" run SNES games at full speed with the accuracy Nintendo needs when putting a price on them. If it were capable of it with the needed accuracy, then they would have already done it, as there's around a good 5x or more o3DS units in the wild than there are n3DS. That's a lot of money not being gained for a company people seem to lazily call "greedy". And datamonkey, your DS is not running Mario 64. It's running Mario 64 DS, which is a port. Ports =/= emulation.
@Discostew Fair enough but with the Mario 64 example on my DS surely the port is a lot more taxing on my DS running 3D polygons etc than an emulation of Mario World with just 2D sprites on my more powerful 3DS?
@datamonkey That's the thing though. SM64DS is using the hardware as it was meant to be used. There is no accessible 2D hardware on the 3DS, only 3D hardware, so it either has to be done in software (which then pushes the CPU beyond its limit on an o3DS), or attempt to use the GPU to render every map tile, sprite piece, etc as a pair of polygons. The latter of these two options is not only inaccurate due to missing relevant features like using color palette, but as the complexity of the scene increases (like changing things mid-frame), so does the load on the GPU itself. For instance, an 8x8 pixel tile takes 2 polygons in the simplest form, but it can range up to 16 polygons when scanline changes are done (because the polygon has to be split to adher to whatever changes have to be made), and this polygon list has to be built from scratch every frame. The 3DS's GPU is optimized to use unaltered polygon/vertex lists, using a vertex shader to make changes without affecting the list itself. The SNES's PPU is quite a complex beast fora 2D machine compared to the GBA's and even the Megadrive's PPU.
I'm fine paying $8 for these games again. They were worth it in the 90's and still worth it now.
@Discostew I appreciate that you used actual knowledge to make a point rather than an emotional outburst. Kudos!
Agree with the article. I didn't mind paying a buck or two to "upgrade" my VC purchases from Wii to Wii U, but I am absolutely NOT re-buying VC games that I have on one platform on another platform at full price.
I think the generation 1 Pokémon games are an example of Nintendo doing a good job integrating the old games into a new infrastructure, allowing for wireless local trading and using the Pokemon bank service to move the Pokémon to newer games. You can quibble with the price, but as VC content goes, they did a good job with it. More VC releases should add in features like this.
This all seems like fallout from Nintendo's dual platform approach that I suspect will be going away in the NX generation. Apple has cross-buy because it has one platform operating on multiple devices. Nintendo doesn't have that yet, but likely will in the future. These SNES titles on New 3DS are their last efforts to squeeze as much as they can out of the old model.
Thinking about it some more, I would totally be okay with SNES being New 3DS exclusive if and ONLY IF Nintendo finally gives us the chance to play the complete ROM of Star Fox 2 on 3DS with online or local multiplayer (I remember Street Fighter 2 on Wii virtual console had online play, right? They can do the same for this game!).
Release it in time for Star Fox Zero's release and they would make a TON of fans happy!
Though, Nintendo REALLY needs to work on their pricing for these old, old games. :/
@Discostew I see. Thanks for the explanation!
@Discostew I totally agree that Nintendo would most definitely release the VC games on the 3DS as well if they could, and in that way gained more sales.
But since they don't port the games it's mind-boggling how they can defend the current price-point, when Sega is porting their MegaDrive games with extra features for less.
A few years ago I bought several PS One classics on my PSP. Most of them are now available for me to download and play on my Vita at no extra charge. I generally find that Sony has a much more consumer-friendly approach to digital purchases than Nintendo does. They allow you to have more than one machine attached to your account and to use all digital content on both machines at the same time.
As for SNES games on the 3DS, I might consider playing a good RPG that way, but for most games the Wii Virtual Console on my HDTV with my imported SNES style classic controller (from Japan) is the best way for me to enjoy those games.
On a different subject, I have never understood why Nintendo could not get Gameboy Advance games working well enough to sell on the 3DS. The PSP has an emulator for Gameboy Advance that plays most games at full speed with full sound and no glitches. As far as I know the 3DS is more powerful than the PSP.
This is making me think back to the old Club Nintendo surveys for Virtual Console titles. They always seemed very interested in how satisfied we were with the V-console system. Makes me wonder what that data showed them.
Also, 30 cent retro games? When was that? Jeez, must have happened while I was on vacation or something, I've been using my 3DS for years and I would have jumped on a deal like that.
This a slap in the face once again. Sony has cross buy on PS1 games for PS3, Vita, and PSP. Nintendo needs to get in the "now".
I completely agree with this article. the solution? Its called the Everdrive I have paid repeatedly for the same game and I got so fed up with being constantly screwed I downloaded the ROM every single snes game released and play them it through an Everdrive cartridge via a memory card. Have some of that Nintendo!
I've been thinking about your comment for far too long, and I decided to reply just so I could stop thinking about it.
There's a homebrew named blarSNES for the 3ds. It sacrifices game compatibility and accuracy and still doesn't run even near perfect on old 3ds.
I doubt Nintendo could make a very accurate emulator with perfect (or very high) compatibility that runs well on old 3ds when homebrew developers aren't even close.
If Sony can make PS1 classics cross-buyable across PSP, PS3, PS Vita, AND PS4, I'm absolutely certain Nintendo can do it across all their systems from Wii onwards. I usually defend Nintendo, but there's no way this isn't just their way to make some extra bucks.
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