From now until the start of the new year we're going to be republishing some of what we feel are our best features of 2015. Hopefully this will offer the chance for newer readers to catch up on content they might have missed and allow long-time fans to reacquaint themselves with features they enjoyed the first time around. It's the turn of NX again today, as Thomas Whitehead highlights the five key challenges Nintendo has to overcome to make the console a success. This feature originally appeared on the site in October.
After whispers throughout the Summer, we've had NX on the mind since we had the firmest indication yet that development kits are now making their way into the world. With every passing remark and apparent leak it seems we're heading towards an integrated platform, possibly supporting both home console and portable gaming in one package, with talk now also of "industry-leading chips" powering the hardware. It's exciting but still vague, with Nintendo stating it'll give the full reveal in 2016.
We've written about how we seem to be entering a new era in NX hype, and have previously shared our thoughts on how we think it could shape up as hardware. The truth is that there's no concrete information out there, however, but there are plenty of considerations to ponder; let's not forget that this hardware will arrive against the backdrop of the ageing 3DS and the poor-selling Wii U. It has a lot it needs to deliver, and we can't stop talking - and fantasizing - about it in Nintendo Life HQ.
Considering the lessons of the past - such as the dominant DS / Wii era - and also of the present, we thought we'd pinpoint five key challenges that we think Nintendo faces with its NX hardware.
Innovation to grab the mainstream
This may be anathema to some that want simple and brilliant Nintendo gaming that's purely focused on fun gameplay and those IPs that many of us love. That'll absolutely be necessary to appease millions of dedicated fans, but Nintendo's in a unique market position in that its impact on the broader gaming market is reliant upon creating a must-have and creative product for the infamous 'blue-ocean' consumers.
The Wii and DS did this, and to a lesser extent the 3DS achieved the same trick - the current-gen portable hasn't matched the success of its predecessor, but its blend of catch-all enticing games like Animal Crossing: New Leaf and neat extras such as StreetPass helped it to stand out. It wasn't the autostereoscopic 3D that served as the portable's unique selling point, as marketing after launch slowly ignored the feature, but rather the wider package that made the 3DS interesting, accessible and affordable; more on those latter two points shortly.
So what does the NX need to do to capture the public's imagination and get living room space alongside smart TVs, tablets and other consoles? Well, Nintendo will have had more creative ideas than we've had hot dinners, though it wouldn't surprise us if simplicity is a watchword. Innovation doesn't have to mean extravagant devices and control schemes, especially as these can be rather expensive. Innovation can rather be about how products and services interact with and influence various aspects of our lives - companies like Apple in particular often centre their design around those priorities.
If this system is a platform with options for home console and portable gaming under one umbrella, for example, how its services work and change the way we play could be pivotal. Sony tried it with Vita and PS3 / PS4, and Apple TV / Kindle Fire TV sort of play in these areas, but Nintendo could take it to another level. Innovation need not be gimmicky, but whatever Nintendo has up its sleeve will hopefully be on-point and tap into the trends of modern day consumers and their lives.
Pricing and options to suit a broad audience
Pricing is vital, and in recently mulling over a Wii U price cut we shared the view that it was - and continues to be - an issue for the Wii U. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, to be fair, but after a generation of gamers associating Nintendo with affordable fun - many then being lured in by smart device gaming - the Wii U was a tad pricey at launch. Not the only factor in its struggles, admittedly, but relevant nevertheless.
Strategically this is an interesting one for Nintendo - it's a company that's traditionally sold hardware at a profit, which made perfect sense when systems were flying off shelves. Yet with the 3DS this didn't work, sparking a rapid price cut and a period of around a year of selling at a loss. That certainly worked in reviving the portable, along with other factors, but nevertheless Nintendo still seems resistant to the idea of effectively subsidising hardware to customers. The problem, though, is that many rivals do, not just Microsoft and Sony but also others such as Amazon and Google with their smart device and TV products. Apple, less so, but as that company is effectively so rich to be master of the universe it's a bit of an exception.
If, and it's a big if, NX is a platform with both home console and portable components - the sibling-style relationship once talked about by Satoru Iwata - then there may be room for budget options, even if they don't come packed with all of the goodies. If the 3DS family (and DS before it) teaches us anything is that you can find room for different-priced options to suit different audiences. Dedicated fans will always be game to spend plenty of money on the latest and greatest products, but it's important not to price out the all important mainstream consumers that don't share the same brand loyalty.
Power to attract cheap and easy third-party ports
This is the category we suspect will cop us the most flak, but we'll go there anyway.
Third-party ports won't make or break the NX, and exclusives will be far more important. Yet this generation has taught us that being frozen out of the multi-platform scene can be damaging in terms of perception - it's not just games like Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed that have drifted away, but the absence of Minecraft has been particularly damaging. It's easy to claim the latter wouldn't sell but, frankly, every version that comes out does well, regardless of how 'old' the game is. The problem with the Wii U is that, despite its strengths, its combination of tricky architecture and requirements makes life awkward for third parties, even those that are interested. Add poor sales into the mix and these companies have understandably walked away.
A theme often mentioned for third-parties in the retail scene, particularly, is the ease of porting. The PS4 and Xbox One, with PC-based architecture and similar specs, make life relatively easy for development teams. The NX surely needs to be accessible in terms of its architecture and have the grunt to live up to the current multi-platform scene. That's not too outrageous a requirement - the PS4 and Xbox One are powerful but not mind-blowingly so - and could be key: talk of the NX potentially utilising x86 technology gives us hope on this score.
Eye-catching exclusive games
As we've said, ports will be useful but not integral for the NX - as always exclusive games will be key. This, after all, is what defined DS, Wii and 3DS - alongside their innovations - and grabbed a broad market. Franchises like Mario, Metroid, Pokémon, The Legend of Zelda et al will all be important, naturally, through new releases and - probably - a few NX remakes.
Concept games can matter, too, and new IPs can flourish when they hit the right notes. On DS we had Touch Generation games such as Nintendogs, the Wii brought us Miis and their game appearances, while recently on Wii U Splatoon has shown that fresh ideas can succeed in a meaningful way. It can feel somewhat like lightning in a bottle by nature - we think Nintendo Land is better than its reception suggests - but a key challenge will be capturing the essence of NX (whatever that ultimately is) and distilling it into a must have gaming experience. Ideally the sort of game that gets attention and playtime in both traditional media and 'new' media like YouTube. Oh, yeah, please embrace YouTube properly, Nintendo, and let channels share your content without hassle or revenue sharing.
As Nintendo often says, games sell systems, and that'll apply to NX too.
Integration with the thriving smartphone industry
Another sticking point that won't please all, but let's embrace reality here. Smart device gaming is becoming dominant in Japan - so will naturally have Nintendo's attention - and is a multi-billion dollar industry worldwide. It's not going anywhere, and Nintendo's partnership with DeNA and involvement (plus investment) in Pokémon Go is testament to its awareness of the importance of the market.
It's been maintained that games released on smart devices - and potentially 'service' apps - will have a secondary goal of directing and encouraging players to adopt Nintendo hardware. It goes without saying that if Nintendo can make lots of money from its smartphone games and win over new customers for dedicated hardware then it'll be onto a very good thing indeed.
The key, as highlighted earlier in this article, is embracing and tapping into gamer's lifestyles to make Nintendo a core part of their lives. With DeNA's speciality skills in networking and services it's likely that we'll see aspects of smart device apps and NX interacting and overlapping, with examples being the 'loyalty program' that DeNA itself is developing. If this is done in ways that are clever, fun and rewarding it has significant potential. The modern trend - epitomised by the most successful technology companies in the world - is to integrate brands directly into our daily lives; we'd suggest that NX and smart devices can combine and work together to make this a reality for Nintendo.
Whether we're right or wrong with these thoughts, we're sure all Nintendo fans want one thing - a success for the company. Nintendo has often proven itself to be adaptable and innovative under pressure, securing impressive successes off the back of disappointments. It now needs to repeat that trick again.
Comments 191
I couldn't disagree more about the third party section. For people who can only invest in one console, the one with 6-12 month gaps in between major games won't be in the running. Sure loyal fans might bite that bullet, but mainstream buyers who feel nothing for Nintendo won't. The rest of the article I can see where your coming from, and while I don't agree with it all, I certainly see them as valid points to be made.
Hopefully Ninty is able to get it right this time around.
just don't use the Wii branding and feel free to go nuts on the name
I'd broadly agree with all of that. The only thing I'd add is being more aggressive at picking up high quality indies, who can then preach about the NX and reach places that Nintendo as a big corporation can't.
Also on the broad audience thing, Neko Atsume sequel as a launch title!
@thatguyEZ
Your comment makes no sense. You state that you're against the NX being easy enough to develop for to have cheap/easy 3rd party ports become a possibility, then follow it up by saying the console with 6-12 month gaps in software releases won't be the one mainstream consumers flock to?
Contradictory statements, for sure.
Easy ports are important, just as exclusives are. It's being able to have as big of a share of the cake while putting your own exclusive cherries on top. The possibility of a highly (enough) powered portable component would mean Splatoon on the go, for instance. That's big. There's a niche they can fill, and while I expect it to be expensive, if it has the games, it's got a lot of promise.
If the NX is indeed a hybrid console, here's the plan.
Previously owned games downloaded digitally, tied to the same NNID, available for the same NNID at launch.
Bam, day one sales galore.
True. I hope NX is good.
I agree with droping the Wii brand, lets get a new catching name so people do not get confused again
@OniLink agreed I've seen before and on other sites people keep suggesting names based on Nintendo's history but I think that's a rather pointless odds are those who loved those classic consoles are the core fan base. Needs to be fresh and somehow work
@DarthNocturnal yeah the pricing is going to key, a hybrid system sounds expensive.
Also if Nintendo still doesn't get the big AAA titles for the NX it's going to be in big trouble, they can't support a system with 1st party alone. Indies are great and all but it's the sports games and GTA's of the world that move systems.
#4 is the one I'm most concerned about, and it's the main reason I've been so turned off by Nintendo lately. There is a definite lack of compelling software this generation, with Nintendo failing to create experiences that define the generation and rehashing tired gameplay formulas. And there were many, many IPs that either skipped the Wii U or 8th gen altogether. Nintendo's going to need to step things up with their game lineup this gen and get back to being the creative geniuses they're known for being.
Iwata said the NX would be starting from zero. It'll be an all new take on their hardware, all new branding, a new, significant level of integration and compatibility with the technology world it must thrive in, new background features that push the user experience to popular places on the web and new business models for pricing and retailer strategy. And of course, new games.
If we ever felt Nintendo was holding back or lagging behind, I'm confident Nintendo has heard it well and seeks put those perceptions and opinions behind them with hardware that is no less forward looking than that of any major tech company selling in stores today.
@AlexSora89 I'd like that, but wouldn't having all Wii U titles mean that the same system architecture or software would have to apply to the new console? I think that might negate the ease of porting for third parties and that might be damaging since the Wii U has suffered from lack of those games. Perhaps some titles could be remade or perhaps the system could use some sort of an emulator, though. The Wii did play Gamecube games and the 3DS does play DS games, so it's not impossible, but I was expecting a departure from the way Wii U is currently set up because of the criticism over porting difficulty. It would be sweet, though.
As long as screen integrated controller remains an option (hate that short battery life of gamepad), this could be a good system.
This article seems like a "we're out of news, so let's make something to talk about" type thing. I'll play along though.
With the direction Nintendo is heading, they are planning an ecosystem platform where they can develop for multiple form factors at once rather than two separate platforms. Iwata himself put as Nintendo needing to "correct" the way they develop games.
Basically, NX appears to be Nintendo attempting to streamline and make more efficient use of their resources. This means they won't need to redundantly develop two Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, NSMB, etc games each generation.
Having one platform that consists of a handheld and a console will free up demands on their development teams and address differences in market buying patterns (The west likes consoles while Japan likes handhelds? No problem!).
Now here's the thing: launch titles.
Say NX had a 3D Mario and Zelda U Remastered at launch. Is that compelling enough to bite 1st party games-wise?
While that may be the case for a lot of us, I get the feeling that for most people it would just be "the same old crap", even though no Nintendo system has ever had both of those at launch. I'd be willing to wager that this would still be the case if they threw in a new Metroid Prime at launch as well.
Needs something else that's not Mario/Zelda/Metroid.
I really hope the NX has a new controller
I'd love a console with various options and, therefore, various price points - home or portable, it plays the same games with options to use existing controllers. I'd like some backwards compatibitlity. I'd like an account system in the cloud instead of being tied to consoles. If there's an accomplishment system, then not one that trolls us as badly as the StreetPass accomplishments. A new game from one of Nintendo's established IPs, a new IP as good as Splatoon and a few third party games as launch titles. All that would be pretty nice. The New New WiiU3DS XXL Advance Extreme! Yeah, something better than that as a name.
As much as I want the NX, I think they should stick with the Wii U. Price drop & promotion. Make some Wii U amiibo games, bring out Zelda, Star Fox & Metroid, take a chance with some more new IP.
@Vineleaf Hopefully if there is Splatoon on the go then there will also be Artificial Intelligence bots.
@IceClimbers well it is called talking point
@IceClimbers Metroid is actually severely lacking at this point, there hasn't been a main series game the entire generation. Collectathon Mario has also been absent, with Nintendo favoring NSMB and 3D Land/World. So if they brought those two back I don't think people would think they're being same old, same old. But I do think they should have a new or mature IP in their launch lineup just for the sake of breaking from tradition.
I guess one of the reasons why the Wii U/3DS has the architecture it has (if the ongoing updates on 3DS are anything to go by) is due to security/piracy. Nintendo has & I'm sure always will put their systems in a higher state of security to ensure their games/systems are as secure as can be .. Which judging by the hacks the other major systems have had can only be a good thing.
However in this day & age surely there's a way to have a secure system that can be easy to program for - thus allowing for ports (standard & enhanced) to be easily transferred to whatever our new system will be.
Innovation will always be a good thing but those of us that remember the older Nintendo systems will agree : games sell systems. Even with the ports Nintendo games will always be the reason people will buy Nintendo.
It's that first one which is the biggie. Their greatest challenge will be to prove they are relevant.
Ultra NES. Let bring back the NES name
UNES!
@gatorboi352 "Third-party ports won't make or break the NX, and exclusives will be far more important." Is what I was taking issue with. If the NX is unable to bring third party studios back around it will be just as dead as the Wii U. Though after re reading the section it seems our views were more or less in the same vein.
@Bolt_Strike Doesn't matter. To the people Nintendo needs to gain, it's still same old, same old. Those people are either heavily jaded Nintendo fans that have jumped ship or people who have no attachment to those franchises in the first place. To them, it's still Nintendo milking out Mario, Zelda, and Metroid (despite Metroid's absence).
They need a dormant IP to come back or a new IP. Or Splatoon 2.
Console power and games is the key. But Nintendo need to give some franchises a rest. A new Wave Race on the NX is surely due? As for pricing, enough people bought the PS4 for £400 at launch (US gamers would choke at the exchange rate). Enough proof that gamers will pay it. The console, controllers and games, nothing will clock in on the affordable side. Rumours of it being a digital console, if it's true, games will top £60 easy, excluding DLC. If Nintendo goes digitial only, it'll once again be in control (the notorious NES licencing days).
@Captain_Gonru So I guess we can just pick it up w/ @TheRealThanos in this thread now.
I feel obligated to say something nasty about another NX thread while still no word on Club Nintendo, Wii U price drop,or a new Nintendo Direct is being overwhelmed by the feeling of deja vu, and I'm all out of sarcasm.
I'm starting to feel really bad for TW and the rest of the NL crew, they have a website to run but Nintendo is still up on their mountaintop in the cone of silence. Maybe if we start worshiping false golden calve gods we can get them to come down.
Great points in the article.
NX will need a strong and diverse launch lineup, and not just made of ports from existing games. How about a true amiibo focused game at launch? A good Pokémon game, not a childish spin off like Rumble U? A dazzling 3D Mario? SM3DW was great, but too safe. Put in the mix one or two more high quality games, a couple of remasters, a not so distant Mario Kart release and it's pretty solid.
I hope NX is at least as powerful as PS4, regardless of what concept it is. Nintendo can still jump in the 3rd party bandwagon, but everything has to be right this time.
Make a decent and competitive online infrastructure. This is so important!
I hope Nintendo manages to become relevant again not just as a fan, but for the industry as a whole. It's really sad how it's often left out of the conversation between gamers and media, even worse among non gamers.
@IceClimbers Metroid hasn't been milked by any means whatsoever, so I have no idea why you're including it. The big IPs are Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon, not Mario, Zelda, and Metroid.
I would think the best way to make sure the NX has an amazing launch lineup is to have it work with existing WiiU games?
If the NX is essentially a more powerful WiiU that plays the U library plus new (x86) NX games, with the "Gamepad" being completely portable like a DS... sign me up!
I can't even begin to imagine purchasing a new Nintendo console and having to wait years for the NX iteration of Mario Kart, Smash, etc. Meaning I would wait several years to purchase the new console.
The current WiiU games are plenty good for years to come and having them playable on NX would also allow Nintendo to focus on other franchises. This also confirms suspicions that ZeldaU will be a cross-release with U and NX since backwards compatibility would mean that the same game would work on both... and ZeldaU will be portable!
I hope that's how the NX is going to work... the question is will all U games be portable on the NX-pad, or only NX branded games going forward? And if the NX also takes the place of the 3DS, will the NX-pad have a second screen? Will 3DS titles be playable on the NX?
Unfortunately, Nintendo needs to do a lot more than just 5 measly things to make NX a success. Not only do they need to get third parties back, they need to find a way to make them successful on the system AND they need to find a way to appeal to legions of gamers who have no nostalgia for anything Nintendo. You might note that nostalgia has been the one thing Nintendo has over-whelmingly banked on for almost three generations. Once the casual money was spent, it was all a focus on NOSTALGIA, NOSTALGIA, NOSTALGIA. There are millions upon millions of gamers who have no nostalgia for Nintendo. It's wasted effort. Preaching to an ever-shrinking core of gamers.
Public perception is still that the company is for kids, and lo and behold, censoring Fatal Frame is not going to help that image.
They need major exclusives that don't feature Mario, Link, or Pikachu for once. But they focus way too much on those to their detriment, and it makes anyone not obsessed with those franchises yawn and presume (accurately) that the company isn't doing anything new.
They need to have more confidence in other franchises.
They need to give Miyamoto a nice retirement ceremony.
They need Reggie to step down.
They need to start understanding how the modern world plays video games now, because it's not the same as it was 30 years ago.
This list is a nice start--but it's way too short. It assumes Nintendo only has a couple issues to deal with. In reality, they have well over a dozen problems to deal with, maybe far more than that. And that's where they're getting screwed, and that's why NX is facing a worse launch situation than the Wii U. If the odds were merely stacked against the Wii U, they aren't even on the table for NX.
If Nintendo can properly market its core franchises to the modern market and capture the people who still want portable, non-mobile games... and properly educate the consumer as to the value of the NX system, it could work... maybe. And I sure hope it does...
It would also be helpful if the big developers could easily port the annual best-sellers to the NX, but the install base will have to be there first or they won't bother, no matter how easy.
@DarthNocturnal
If they use SD as main media probably won't be necessary to install any game. Blu Ray Discs can be a bit tricky.
@Quorthon
Welcome back.
Splatoon is a perfect example of letting younger designers flourish, which is something you touched on, but I want to emphasize it further. Splatoon is a hit on a failing console; that should be commended, and Nintendo executives should be taking notes. Nintendo needs to let these younger people have more freedom.
SD cards as the main media... to be swapped back and forth between console and portable would make since and should keep costs down (buy your own separate SD card to suit your needs) and should make it a little easier to manage the digital ownership.
I would still prefer if games came on a physical disk... which would be installed to the console and portable... but that may not happen for cost/distribution reasons.
Perhaps worth it if I can play Mario Kart 8 on a portable...
I don't mind Nintendo going Mobile. What I'm worried about is how they are going to do their games on Mobile. Fire Emblem having microtransactions for characters instead of maps completely ruins the experience. Because maps are understandable since the level itself covers the main gameplay experience. But characters are optional because its a matter of taste.
If permadeath is added, how can I reset on Phone? Sure, I can suspend it and all, but if DeNa doesn't do that, that's another problem.
Seriously though, how is it that no one here ever mentions the same issue Nintendo had during the sixth generation of handhelds and consoles? GBA didn't outsell GB but made profit, Gamecube sold poorly but made profit as well.
Its like you guys forget that Nintendo has been going ups and downs and you make it sound like the Wii U is the worst console they ever made.
@Mr_Zurkon
Yep, its actually crazy how Nintendo have even been able to survive without FIFA, NHL and Madden.
Having those games on a console should ship at least 10 milion units alone.
I don't own an XBOne nor a PS4, but I have been thinking of getting one.
Why? The same and only reason that I bought my 360, FIFA and NHL.
Now I might actually wait til E3 to see what Nintendo might present, and if it NX will support those titles, no problem.
Otherwise I'll pick up one of the two mentioned above, without hesitation.
Here's hoping they either invest in new studios or entrust some of their IP to third/second parties so that they can keep up the core franchises, new IPs and bring back those notably absent on the WiiU and Wii.
Third parties is very important. My only home console is a Wii U, but I would have bought it much earlier if it had the AAA third party games on it. There's bound to be lots of people who can only afford one console and are interested in Nintendo games, but instead choose a console that has the big third party games.
Gimmicks will also be a big challenge for Nintendo. The Wii U controller was completely different to anything seen so far, but people didn't understand it and didn't want it. The extra price of the Wii U due to the expensive controller would not have helped to keep casual players. If Nintendo does something gimmicky, they have to be sure that it enhances the gameplay and that people would want it, and explain it better.
@3MonthBeef
Don't you love people spouting things out from no where, let Nintendo say what they are gonna do.
@Captain_Gonru I'd feel a lot better if you and Thanos were working there. After watching the E3 NDE all I could think was - didn't anybody at the company think to test this on an audience, it's horrible. It made me realize just how out of touch they are. It was an OK ND, but this was E3, and it was lacking in every conceivable way. Well except the Muppets, those were good, but nobody is buying video game hardware for Muppets.
@IceClimbers Well, there hasn't been any news since Iwattas passing, and no game news since E3. It's a game website, they have to do something.
Wii U news in 2015 - DDP ended Dec 31, Club Nintendo ended, Zelda U got delayed in March and booted out of E3, SPLATOON, E3 Reggie says NX, SFZ and AC:aF which was a downer, then Iwatta passed, then SFZ got delayed, then a port of Pokken Tournament in 2016.
Not to say there wasn't other news, amiibo in Skylanders was a nice surprise, but as far as big Wii U news that's about it. I expect 3 NX articles a week for the next 6 months, then 3 a day after Nintendo announces it releasing holiday 2016 in March.
@Artwark
"Seriously though, how is it that no one here ever mentions the same issue Nintendo had during the sixth generation of handhelds and consoles? GBA didn't outsell GB but made profit, Gamecube sold poorly but made profit as well.
I'm not sure where you've been, but I hear that argument all the time. NL has mentioned it in many articles in the past.
"Its like you guys forget that Nintendo has been going ups and downs and you make it sound like the Wii U is the worst console they ever made."
Worst meaning what? The Wii U is what it is, which is an under-powered machine that third parties didn't want to bother with. That's a huge problem that has carried over from the Wii days. The few games it has are fantastic of course. That said, there was too much emphasis placed on the gamepad, and yet, Nintendo has only now started to do creative things with it.
Worst meaning that it's their worst selling home console ever? Well yeah, it's pretty apparent. It's going to struggle to sell 15 million consoles, if that. That's a huge misstep, especially since the Wii had 100 million consoles sold. Nintendo even said that the GameCube was a failure, what do you think they will say about the Wii U? The only good thing to say about the Wii U is it had a good game attach rate. Obviously the only people who bought the system were Nintendo die-hards, and that just amplifies how much the Wii U missed it's mark.
Worst console they ever made? Well other than the Virtual Boy, it's pretty apparent the answer is yes; but hey, the games are good so at least we have that.
@Moon: I'll second that. Splatoon proved that the Wii U and its gamepad can provide an AMAZING gaming experience. It seems short-sided to rush to the next console/system, but I feel like Big N is doing so out of panic instead of sticking with the Wii U for another year or two (filled with the long awaited titles that could really help its cause).
As for the NX, the key for me is second screen mobility. If the Wii U gamepad was not "tethered" to the console and could fit in my pocket or backpack, that would rock. I think Big N is going there. I hope they do, but I sure hope they do not rush it.
I never know what to think about this topic. As much as I like Nintendo to have great success, I buy their systems simply because it's different from everything else. All those games that they need for mainstream support are games I would never buy.
It's just weird for me because my gaming "situation" if you were to call it that, is all figured out. I've got my games on PC, my games on Wii U, and I don't really need much convincing.
@Captain_Gonru amibo are a given. That sensor should fit in any controller if it's in the new 3DS. And I'd bet on an amiibo game at launch like Nintendo Land or Wii Sports or Tomodachi Life. As long as it isn't Greatest Bits 2.
And something about this articles emphasis on nostalgia makes me think even more that we'll get a Club Nintendo game rental service. Maybe that's why it's taking so long, and why all those eShop rumour lists keep appearing, rentals. If they go discless they'll need people to pay for online, better to go the PS+ route than simply pay for online. Though the rental service may have nothing to do with Club Nintendo, but free online is done.
@Captain_Gonru
Third party exclusives are a dying breed--hopefully this will help us move toward a unified platform sooner rather than later, where competition can be amongst games, rather than hardware and logo-boxes (i.e., defending the console with the Nintendo logo over the one with the Microsoft or, say, Samsung logo).
However, the NX needs 1st, 2nd, and 3rd party exclusives. And on the 1st party front, they need to stop making so many Mario-Zelda-Pokemon games and start making an equal number of new franchises and lesser-used titles. Look at the dismal treatment Nintendo has crapped onto Fatal Frame franchises, with NOA effectively doing what they can to murder it off in the West. This kind of crap has to end if NX is to impress anyone at all. Zelda is not a system seller--never really has been. Works on the already-converted, who are more than happy to barf up more money for a 3rd 3DS because more Zelda paint has been slathered on it. This is Nintendo's classic over-reliance on nostalgia and pre-existing fans, which is both cruel to their biggest fans and a total failure in reaching new audiences and fence-sitters.
Nintendo also needs to get better third party support all around, and if they can muster some real exclusives, they should do it. However, they aren't likely to do the latter with NX. Too many bridges have been too badly burned with Wii U and, let's be honest, the 3DS as well--despite high hardware sales, it's been equally dead on the retail front for the better part of a year. Same as Wii U.
Nintendo's third party relationships are arguably at their lowest ever--worse than during the NES and N64 eras. And while a lot of Nintendo fans are blind to how important third parties are (as too many users on this site have too long illustrated), the fact is, without third party, the NX doesn't matter. It's a Nintendo box, and as far as most gamers are concerned, Nintendo should just got third party already. They'll buy Zelda on the PS4, but it's not worth the entry fee to buy a Wii U or NX just for that.
1. Again x86 would actually hurt them I think. Nintendo can't afford to break backwards compatibility with at least the 3DS. The only issue between x86, ARM and PPC is endian-ness which is only important when you need to compare binary data from different machines on different architectures. Very few games use assembly anymore, its all C++.
2. The game industry (3rd parties included) benefit more from Sony/Microsoft dominating the console race. a.) They don't like competing with Nintendo games. b.) Nintendo is harder to work with then Sony/M$, c.) Hence, I doubt 3rd parties will really support a Nintendo console no matter what they do, its in their best interests for Nintendo to fail.
I will also remind everyone that Nintendo's problems are further bigger than just the ill-selling Wii U.
The Wii U and 3DS are both following a steady downward trend of Nintendo consoles, each of which has sold worse than the previous generation--with the sole exceptions being the Wii and DS, which only sold as well as they did by capitalizing on a brief casual market.
After the Wii and DS, the downward trend continued unabated, with the 3DS and Wii U selling worse than not only the DS and Wii, but also selling worse than the GBA and GameCube. Which sold worse than the GB-GB Color and the N64, which sold worse than the SNES, which sold worse than the NES.
This is a generations-long downward trend. The Wii and DS were fads, flukes, and temporary reprieves. As soon as they were gone, the trend continued as if the Wii and DS didn't even exist.
This article addresses problems on the surface. There are far deeper problems affecting this company, and they've been lingering for generations.
The fifth point raised in this article, integrating into daily lives, just screams 'put a sim card socket in there with mobile reception', which is what I've been saying since all this NX talk started, if not before.
2015 - if you want your device in people's hands on a daily basis and when they're on the move, it's gotta have telephony.
My biggest fear is that they'll use 'Wii' in the name again.
I would rather have something called the Ultra Nintendo Entertainment System... or even if they kept the codename NX.
@Seacliff
"First we gave you the revolutionary Wii.
"Then we brought you a new level of control in your living room with Wii U.
"We are now excited to announce.... Wii 3!"
3 things that are important to me, even though in all honesty I'll have the NX preordered and picked up at midnight launch no matter what.
1) stay far far away from the Wii name.
2) account system and all my downloaded Wii U VC games making the transfer to the NX right off the bat.
3) a proper marketing campaign. Any marketing campaign would be better than what they did with the U.
@rjejr
The Golden PS4 Calf. Perfect.
They could name the console Wiii or WIII. Got it? Roman number III?
one console, one handheld, one OS.
3 separate and distinct tech all with one purpose.
@rjejr comment #33 a certain quote from a certain movie about being pulled back in suddenly comes to mind...
As for the E3 Nintendo Muppet reel: that was indeed one of the few good parts of their show. In my humble opinion these Muppets were even better than the current ones now airing...
@Captain_Gonru "for those keeping score... " etc. Does that mean that we should recap for those that weren't privy to our other conversation?
I'm very bad at compressing my walls of text; I like to be as clear as possible and oftentimes that requires a larger number of words.
Maybe bullet points to share what I think it should be (focused on accounts and the mobile units) and keep my text wall at least somewhat smaller than usual:
ON TOPIC:
As @Quorthon has already stated very correctly, there are definitely more than just five challenges that lie ahead for Nintendo. One thing that sticks out like a sore thumb for me as a sales & marketing guy is their marketing campaign, or rather: lack thereof. I still feel the pain of the truly horrible campaign that Nintendo "let loose" for the Wii U. It was total and utter sh**.
But there's one thing about @Quorthon's points that I don't agree with: I wouldn't send Miyamoto-san packing just yet. He still wants to make that 4k Pikmin game and I assume that in between all the strange and rather "unfit-for-a-game" concepts and musings of an aging prophet, there will still be some pearls to find, so let's keep him around for a little while longer...
Thoughts:
1: Have 2 options- Handheld and Console. Console outputs to TV via HDMI at 1080, handheld displays at a more modest resolution, something akin to the PSVita. This will ensure the average user buys 1.x systems, rather than just one. Have every game optimized to run at these 2 resolutions.
2: Cartridges rather than Disks. Memory technology has come a long way since the N64. Release the games on cartridges, perhaps a bit bigger than 3ds carts. This will negate any issues with swapping between handheld and console (internet in much of the united states is still too unreliable for cloud based save states to be a good idea, for example). This will also encourage people to take their copy of the game with them. We've all been there, we want to take our copy of Smash Bros to a friends, but nothing is unlocked. I can't be the only one who misses memory cards/cartridge saves.
3: Controller. The WiiMote has had a good run, but I feel it's time to retire it as the primary control scheme. The Wii U Pro Controller on the otherhand is perfect. Bundle it with the (home) console.
4: Nix backwards compatibility, at least as far as hardware is concerned.
5: Launch with Zelda, the same that is being released on the Wii U. Launch with Mario Galaxy. Launch with Animal Crossing. Launch with Mario Kart 9. The Wii U, as great as it's been, has been home to enough platformers. Diversify!
6: Strike a deal with Amazon, or Roku, or Google. Get as many streaming partners behind this thing as you can.
@abe_hikura Perfect, go from the Wii to the nuts.
@aaronsullivan The natives are getting restless.
Question - played a little DI 3.0 RotE w/ my wife. Is there anyway to get her name to not be bobmrik_1? I don't think the Wii U is smart enough to access her account - only game I've ever seen do that well was LBP, where I could play w/ my Gonzo costume w/ my kids - just a name editor.
Here's my top 5 on what I want to see from Nintendo for NX
1) Gather as much third party support as possible
2) Market the console right (I'm looking at you NOA)
3) Purchase new studios
4) Launch with awesome games
5) Don't use the wii name again...ever!
@TheRealThanos Sorry for abusing for the auto-reply, it did seem like we nearing the end and then this popped up..
And yes, the new Muppet show isn't good. The 11 minute trailer was brilliant non-stop laughter if you can find that.
No time to read the rest, dinners on.
I need more Wii U support. 2015 has been a very lame year. The year of just Splatoon, which is not of my interest, and Mario Maker, which is nice, but not particularly engaging.
The end of the years comes with a lame-looking and probably half-assed Star Fox game.
I need that Zelda game on the Wii U, I don't want them to pull the same Twilight Princess crap, that will end with me getting the underpowered version of the game.
@rjejr No apologies needed, I was just getting warmed up...
I don't want to rehash completely, though. Hence the bullet points and the rest should probably be steered back on topic before between you, me and @Captain_Gonru this topic gets taken over by our ravings and rantings...
Nintendo should definitely make their next home console up to par with the XBOX One and PS4 and find a way to incorporate mobile devices, such as tablets and smartphones, with their system. Honestly, they should make the system able to stream games any iOS and android device. They could even go so far as to let it stream games over the internet so you could play your system anywhere you have an internet connection (and, obviously, a controller). It's going to be hard to get other people to buy a new system after putting their expenses toward other next gen systems, so they need to do something that is going to innovate off of what people already own. But hey, that's just an idea. We'll see what they do.
If development kits are just going out now, I'm certain that NX releases in 2017 not 2016. This about it for a second, how will it have third party support at launch given a single year of development. However 2 full years and third parties could be coming out the wazoo
@rjejr never tried to change it and probably can't. It's only different when you play with someone online.
@aaronsullivan Thanks, I didn't think so, but I figured if anybody knew it would be you since you've been playing these games from the begining. And seeing my name w/ the 1 after it is annoying. I've always like the name editor in the Smash games. Well at least the last 3, never played the first.
@TheRealThanos Nice bullet points, but I can't read them in my email, too gray.
Time to go do something important, #LGM
Making it easier for third parties to develop would definitely be a wise decision, though as for affordability, let's be honest: if it IS a hybrid console, it's not gonna be cheap. Also, they should definitely do a better job at advertising the thing than they did with the Wii U (I remember it coming out, and the launch commercial was literally the only commercial for it I saw for an entire year.), and for the love of God, please don't put Wii into the name this time!
@Captain_Gonru Oh, there will be a Muppets game. And Toys. Disney owns the Muppets. DI 6.0 maybe.
"Third-party ports won't make or break the NX, and exclusives will be far more important"
Yeah tell that to the Game Cube, it had undoubtedly one of the best 1st party support on a Nintendo console, it had your Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Star Fox (2 of each in fact), F-Zero, DK, Kirby, Wave Racer, 1080 Snowboarding, new IP's with 2 Pikmin games, Geist and Eternal Darkness. That's just off the top of my head, and even with such a great 1st party line the Game Cube unfortunately still didn't manage to sell too well, even came behind a newcomer to the console scene (though admittedly it also had to do with the fact the GC didn't have a DVD player).
All I'm saying is, yes 1st party are important, I feel they should treat most, if not all 3rd party with equal importance (yes, even EA and Ubisoft, even though they're sh!t).
So yes, they really do need to attract more 3rd party with power for cheap and easy ports. It would be magical if they could even get some of the already released multiplats too.
@rjejr Gray? Well, better just read them here, then...
Other than that, I wouldn't worry too much about the bullet points: we three had already discussed all that, it was more a case of bringing the topic along with me to this thread, so others can have a "little" peek at what we have been up to and maybe put in their own 2 cents since it is more or less related.
And #LGM? Wtf? You made me look that up and I've found several meanings, Let's Go Mets! being the least offensive one, so I still haven't got a clue...
@MIDP All of those games are a joke and I'm happy they're not on the Wii U.
@Bolt_Strike I realize that Metroid isn't milked. However, the harsh reality is that the perception of other gamers, whether that be extremely jaded Nintendo fans using it to appeal to their confirmation bias or people who simply have no attachment to those franchises, is that Nintendo milks the ever living s*** out of Mario, Zelda, Metroid, and Pokemon.
That's the reality, whether we like it or not.
For me personally, having 3D collectathon Mario, Zelda U Remastered, and Metroid Prime 4 at launch would be the most killer launch lineup ever. Obviously, it's not gonna happen.
@rjejr Yeah I know. I was mostly trying to comment on the massive news drought.
@firstnesfan Depends on how easy it is to port games to. The NX Console could easily get some good ports if it's easy to port to. The NX Handheld on the other hand, I don't see getting too many ports at launch as I'm assuming Nintendo would give 3rd parties the option to make games exclusive to the NX Console.
@Sakura
Not to mention the fact that, this way, I would have my copy of Super Mario Maker and Super Mario 3D World on my handheld.
"wouldn't having all Wii U titles mean that the same system architecture or software would have to apply to the new console?"
It depends. I think that any title using the Wiimote could be worked around with a special, flat Wiimote (much like flat remotes such as the ones used for car radio systems). Sure, the B button on the back of the Wiimote is a trigger, but I don't see anything wrong with a small, flat Wiimote that could be put inside the handheld in the same vein as the stylus' case (besides, the B button isn't really an issue). When needed, the Wiimote can be either used with the NX placed in front of the TV (with the top screen being shown in HD on the TV itself) or during portable play sessions (with the Wiimote in "portable mode", therefore requiring less distance between itself and the console). Crazy as it sounds, it could work.
"I think that might negate the ease of porting for third parties and that might be damaging since the Wii U has suffered from lack of those games. Perhaps some titles could be remade or perhaps the system could use some sort of an emulator, though."
Good point. Nintendo needs to create a Swiss knife-like universal emulator for each of their past consoles (instead of ad-hoc emulators in order to make each and every single game work), and then just rerelease the games in their original formats, meaning ISOs and ROMs. Legal emulation, simple as that.
"The Wii did play Gamecube games and the 3DS does play DS games, so it's not impossible, but I was expecting a departure from the way Wii U is currently set up because of the criticism over porting difficulty."
Which is why the NX, from a "next home console" angle, is coming earlier. I have to admit that, while being an awesome console on its own, the WiiU is just as powerful as an Xbox 360 or a PS3, and it's painfully clear developers feel the need of hardware supporting life-like graphics. Which is why Nintendo is "upgrading" earlier than we expected them to do.
[So many thoughts, I've been having a lot of trouble putting them together. I apologize if my response is somewhat screwed up.]
@KingofSaiyans
I hope my wild guess is right too, but I'm aware my hopes are firmly in "flying pigs" territory, if only for the amount of sense they would make. Still, a higher focus on both retrocompatibility (the WiiU/3DS library being available on NX at launch) and less strict rules when it comes to being able to download games on a new console (translation: log in with your NNID on the new console, and you've proven you legally own the games) could justify the current VC drought, or game drought in general.
1) Innovation to grab the mainstream.
If rumors hold true and the NX is really an ecosystem of Nintendo devices with the same/similar software rather than simply encompassing singular device, then than should be enough innovation to grab the mainstream. There is no need to include an exotic controller (and an inferior piece of hardware as a result to keep the price point low enough).
2) Price and options to suit a broad audience
Here’s an example on how the NX ecosystem + multiple form factor approach could work:
a. NX Handheld: $170 – For casual portable gamers (shrinking market)
b. NX Premium Handheld: $200 – For Nintendo fans + traditional portable gamers
c. NX Mini-Tablet: $200 – For casuals phone gamers (growing market)
d. NX Tablet: $250 – For casuals tablet gamers (growing market)
e. NX Console: $300 – For casual console gamers
f. NX Premium Console: $400 – For Nintendo fans + traditional console gamers
g. NX TV (similar to PlayStation TV): $150 – For Apple TV/Android console owners
This is just an example of how thinks would work out. Most of what I described may be completely false. The important is that the NX being an ecosystem of devices rather than a single device could allow this multiple form factor strategy to work very well, with each device targeting a specific portion of the gaming market.
3) Power to attract cheap and easy third-party ports
This is the biggest issue that plagues Nintendo right now. NX needs the hardware AND environment to cater to third party titles. Tatsumi Kimishima’s disapproval for the Wii U when it launched indicates that the “industry leading chips” the NX is rumored to utilize may be a reality, but Nintendo will still need to create an environment where these third party titles are not only present on their platforms, but also successful.
4) Eye-catching exclusive games
The traditional gaming market is becoming more and more westernized, and the majority of what’s left of the traditional Japanese gaming market has already sided with Nintendo’s handhelds. Nintendo needs new games + IPs to cater to the western audience. Yes, that means shooters, open-world action titles, and sports games. That means more T and even M rated games. If Nintendo starts to implement a more westernized software development approach to cater to western gamers, this should be able to change Nintendo’s current “kiddie + Japan only) public perception and convince western third parties to be far more supportive of the NX.
5) Integration with the smartphone industry
I imagine there will be a few Nintendo smartphone games that will promote a traditional Nintendo title on the NX. For example, a “Mini Mario Maker” on mobile could be an excellent complement to Super Mario Maker (if SMM or a sequel is ever ported to/developed for the NX). Mini Mario Maker would allow consumers to build levels, but won’t allow players to actually play the levels. That would only be possible in Super Mario Maker, which would force consumers to buy an NX to actually enjoy the full Mario Maker experience.
@bluedogrulez Thanks. I think they would be wise to stick by the Wii U for consumer faith if nothing else.
If they want to do what I think they want to do (which is have mainstream success with sales figures similar to that of PS4), then [I think] they need to release their next console around the time of the PS5 and Xbox 4.
and I agree about the portability thing. I imagine it being something similar to how we use our 3DS as Smash controllers, but a lot better. So instead of downloading an app, the two systems are one in the same and completely compatible with every bit of software.
I really hope they stick with the DS line, though, and still think it's a bit too early to replace even the 3DS. But these are just my opinions of course.
Please have a better selection of vc games then the Wii u has. I'll take at least what the Wii had but they can expand on this service so much further than even that. Master system - Genesis- Sega cd- 32x-dreamcast- many many true ARCADE ports- turbographx 16- Commodore 64- game gear- GameCube- Wii and maybe even Saturn?? Cmon Nintendo!!!!
@Captain_Gonru Our marketing slogan:
"The next best thing since sliced bread"...
There are two more issues I would highlight with this article if I were the author:
1) Move on from the Wii branding in every way. No more Wii motes, no more Wii accessories and no more Wii in console names. Most people, myself included, didn't recognize the Wii U as something new for a few months. Most of the controllers are from the previous generation and the accessories, too. Just stop with that crap, Nintendo.
2) Launch titles are massively important to building early momentum for any system and brand. In the past, Nintendo launched big games with their systems but the Wii U did not get that. Zombi U ain't gonna lead the charge in sales. SM3DW was a year after launch, MK8, 18 months and SSBU was 2 years. No Metroid after 3 years and no Zelda for what may be 3.5 years. That's laughable really. Nintendo did this to themselves. If they want the NX to fly off the shelves, they need 2 high quality launch titles with a debuting shortly after.
Launch the system for the holiday season 2016 and have Zelda and a new 2D or 3D Mario game ready to launch. Then, have a Metroid game ready to rock in Q1 2017 and the NX will be in fantastic shape.
@Nintendofan83 If there's going to be Wii games on the NX VC, then they'll need Wii mote compatibility. I don't see it disappearing completely, but they definitely still need to remove the Wii branding as much as possible. In fact we're already seeing that with the store display branding changes:
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/09/retailers_in_north_america_merge_wii_u_and_3ds_library_under_one_nintendo_banner
I also don't think we'll have Metroid available that soon. I have the feeling that whatever Retro is working on, it isn't Metroid, which I'm perfectly okay with as long as they aren't working on Donkey Kong right now either.
@rjejr Well, looks like we've got some news finally. There's that new trailer for Mario Tennis, and some new modes for amiibo Festival have been revealed as well in a preview (it's on GameXplain). Also, Pokken Tournament is apparently not doing well in Japanese arcades, as it's being pulled from some arcades due to unpopularity.
I would also add in the challenges of resisting the temptations of DRM and micro transaction hell, and stay far away from the mobile market's disgusting "race to the bottom". Keep physical options open; whatever you do, DO NOT go all digital unless you have either a highly accessible or DRM free platform. (Which I highly doubt Nintendo will embrace at this point.)
Remember your roots, don't allow the mobile market to taint you. Don't let DeNA dictate your future course of action.
@3MonthBeef "though many people may not like it federation force is an example of what Nintendo should be doing."
So... Nintendo should be making their serieses increasingly bland and dirivitive?
@AlexSora89 I agree. All VC games and eshop purchases better carry over. I even want my 3DS Wallpaper to carry over. 😀
If it's not region free, I'm not getting it. This nonsense needs to stop.
@westman98 So more Bayonettas, Xenoblades, and Fatal Frames? Or you mean other exclusives?
@maukenboost Exactly, markets favor a coke/pepsi system. Nintendo is never going to get 3rd party support. Not unless they managed to make a system that got 2nd or 1st place by a large enough margin; AND had better specs AND was easy to port to AND used a normal controller AND more importantly NINTENDO STOPPED MAKING THIER FIRST PARTY GAMES.
Nintendo is better off making a high spec system for a high price but placing it in the sharper image crowd. And then with one system they can focus on making high quality games for it. They won't get third parties, casuals and kids will never play their systems ever again.
They have two choices: (1) Focus on their core supporters. (2) Make pachinko machines. They will never get 3rd party support, and even if they beat M$ and Sony... they'll just be counted as their own unique market.
@maukenboost
Yes...well sort of. More westernized and in house would be ideal.
@maukenboost
As Tatsumi Kimishima is President, I like to think it's now more likely.
@maukenboost
Not true.
NX has to prove it can sell 3rd party games in order to nab 3rd parties.
If NX cannot prove it can sell 3rd party games, then they won't sell.
3rd parties will need proof that their T and M rated games can sell on NX before porting them to NX.
3rd parties have no trouble selling E rated games on Nintendo systems (including Wii U), though they do struggle at selling T & M rated games regardless of quality.
Also Nintendo needs to convince the consumers of the hardware to buy T and M-rated 3rd party games regardless of quality in order to boost T and M rated 3rd party games.
You don't see Xbox and Playstation fans screaming over missing content, quality issues and other issues. They line up every time with cash in hand to buy those games.
2) Nintendo needs to learn that their 1st party titles kill 3rd party sales.
As long as Nintendo's systems are heavy in 1st party output, it will damage 3rd party sales.
I would be ecstatic if they dug a bit and paid tribute to their past and named the new console something like 'Ultra Nintendo' or 'Nintendo Revolution' as they would be smart to distance themselves from the Wii title. Wii to Wii U wasn't exactly as clear as 'Nintendo' was to 'Super Nintendo', and that hurt the system initially.
Heck, even if they stick with NX, I could totally get on board, but as we learned from Project Reality/Ultra 64, Dolphin and Revolution, chances of that are pretty slim. Really, as long as NX has traditional (Classic/Pro type) controllers as an option and gains third party games such as Star Wars Battlefront, Mad Max and Mass Effect Andromeda, I will wait for NX and skip Xbone and PS4. Don't care about Halo or Gears of War, and definitely not FFVII. (Seriously? Getting excited and buying a new console for a REMAKE?) but what has me on the fence right now is the third party wagon.
Not to say XBone and PS4 are bad, they just don't have enough exclusivity to pick one or the other. Xbone has Rare and Forza, and PS4 PONTENTIALLY has Sly Cooper and Twisted Metal. In the end, Nintendo is always in my wheelhouse, so hopefully it will serve all my desires, even if I have to wait.
@KodyDawg
It's actually cheaper for you to buy the storage you need on your own instead of paying the system price to get it.
@AlphaOmega
You do know that smartphones are featuring their full first year decline in sales this year!
iPhone 6s and 6s+ are expected to be flat in terms of growth with the possibility of 3% growth over last year as the high end predictions.
Tablets sales are in their 3rd straight year of sharp decline including iPads.
Each company is selling less and less tablets in each, while Samsung the only other profitable mobile hardware maker has seen 7 quarters of sharp profit declines.
The rest of the Android makers are losing money selling hardware.
Microsoft is losing money selling Windows Phones, which currently only have 2.3% global market share.
Blackberry is still bleeding money.
With that said Android users don't buy apps, instead pirate everything.
All the money on Android comes from Google Ads.
iOS users refuse to pay more than $2 for most apps, instead leaving all the profits in apps in micro transactions and ads.
The PC market in it's 8th year of sharp declines.
The mobile market is gearing up for a prolonged market decline, tablet market is still in sharp declines with not turn around in sight.
PC market is still in sharp decline with no turn around in sight.
So yeah the grass is not greener on the other side anymore.
Nintendo will literally have to pay top dollar in order to get Western 3rd parties to develop for the NX, matching the amount Microsoft and Sony pay, if not out paying them.
There is a very good chance that EA will lead the charge for Western 3rd parties to force Nintendo out of the industry in order to "preserve gaming".
EA has had beef with Nintendo since they failed to gain special treatment on SNES from Nintendo.
Eastern 3rd parties should line up and support NX, they typically do decent to good on Nintendo systems.
@Xenocity
"You don't see Xbox and Playstation fans screaming over missing content, quality issues and other issues. They line up every time with cash in hand to buy those games."
Half true. There's plenty of Xbox and PlayStation fans who screamed and are screaming over the missing chapter in MGS V, the $50 season pass for Star Wars Battlefront, the lack of a campaign in Rainbow Six Siege, the 300 microtransactions in Rise of the Tomb Raider (on top of the $30 season pass), among other things. The issue is, as you put it, they keep lining up with cash in hand to buy those games. They can't seem to learn to vote with their wallet.
That being said, people will eventually get fed up with that BS. If massive season passes and microtransactions are necessary to make profit off of $60 AAA games these days, this industry is going to be in deep trouble.
@maukenboost, nope as other people have pointed out. By and large Nintendo is the worst platform for third party games. Irregardless of compatibility and power, the mere presence of their first party games reduces sales of third party games.
Its in their best interest to force Nintendo out of the industry. (Not our best interest mind you)
@IceClimbers, they should just charge $120 and give a premium experience. ($60 in 1990 is around $120 now). I would pay $120 for a game with a manual, that had the content of a 90's game with todays graphics.
@bloodycelt @IceClimbers
Most of the industry sucks at budgeting and at being efficient.
This is why costs of development have spiraled out of control to this point.
With that said the amount of digital revenue from PS4 and Xbox One is rapidly increasing over PS3 and Xbox 360. This is mostly driven by DLC and micro transactions.
@bloodycelt
I partially agree.
The Traditional Western side of the industry wants Nintendo out, so it can focus consolidation of power and revenue.
They want control and the power to dictate the outcome, which is currently even
causing them trouble with Sony.
I see Eastern publishers and developers mostly supporting NX.
As for price of games, there is no need for developers to spend as much as they do on development and marketing.
It's their reckless handling of resources and money that have lead to development costs going through the roof.
If they chose the sensible managed route, they'd be more profitable and not need micro transactions.
The market will not support $70+ game as the main price.
The market didn't support it back in the late 80s/early 90s and it won't know.
Every other media has gotten cheaper with new formats.
@3MonthBeef Metroid is not the kind of IP they should be doing that with, it's a single player exploration game that emphasizes isolation. If they wanted to make a game like Federation Force they may as well have made it a new IP, in terms of gameplay it's almost nothing like Metroid aside from being an FPS. If they want to multiplayerize their franchises, fine, but they're doing it with the wrong IP in the wrong way. Metroid doesn't really work as a co-op game.
Sorry, but I completely disagree with the 3rd party section.
FIFA is one of the best selling games every year and I know a ton of people who buy every iteration and who definetely wont buy a plattform that does not provide them with a yearly update. Same goes for games like COD or AC...
I dont play those games, but many, many, many people do regularly and if Nintendo wants to have a competeitive plattform (not a secondary console) to Sony and MS, they need to have those titles in their library every year (and not a late, gimped port).
Those games do make or break a plattform... and no matter how many awesome 1st party games N provides, without them they will never be a true competitor to te XBox or PS.
Nintendo has too hit all the key points with the NX too get developers and consumers interested plus hype of course really helps a console we have seen that aswell.
The third party section is interesting. Having the yearly rehash dross & awfulness that is COD, AC & fifa will be wanted by some, but the games that are sorely missing are titles like Metal Gear, FF, Fallout 4, GTA etc.
The casual market is long gone. IMO Nintendo needs to target dedicated gamers, the ones who want quality gaming.
@maukenboost
There has never been hardware standards until this generation when Microsoft and Sony used similar parts and the same chip architect.
The 6 main reasons why 3rd parties don't want to bring their T and M rated software to Nintendo consoles are:
1) Nintendo's owners don't buy T and M rated software. They only by E rated software (obviously not true)
2) Nintendo owners only buy 1st party software and refuse to buy 3rd party games.
3) Nintendo's systems since SNES only sell to kids, families, nerd and "casuals". "hardcore" gamers don't buy Nintendo systems, thus our games will sell bad. The systems need to show us we can sell our games before we will commit (Western 3rd parties and some Eastern 3rd parties).
4) The controller doesn't conform to the "standards:
3rd parties complained about the NES abandoning traditional controllers and using D-pad and A, B, Start and Select buttons instead.
3rd parties complained about SNES have triggers and 4 face buttons arranged in a diamond shape, breaking away from the industry standards (3-6 button controllers laid out in arcade form, with no triggers at that time)
3rd parties balked at the N64 controller having an analog stick with some openly stating it was Nintendo forcing a new input on them when there was no reason to abandon the industry standard D-pad. They also didn't care for Z-trigger and C-Buttons.
3rd parties balked at the Gamecube controller in part because of it's shape, jellybean buttons, and those gimmicky clickable shoulder buttons.
3rd parties really hated the Wii remote for motion controls, unorthodox button placement, the expansion port, and pointer controls. Then threw crap at it for the most part just to prove that no one wanted their games.
3rd parties made fun of the headphone jack on Wii U gamepad, the touchscreen and the built in mic.
Yet DS4 came out with a touch pad, built in speaker, built in mic, and headphone jack they hailed it as the greatest innovation ever and actually embraced it.
Everything Nintendo added to each new controller was eventually incorporated by the competition as industry standard. Though the jury is out on touch screens.
5) 3rd parties regularly complain about how Nintendo hogs the launch of their new systems by releasing too many 1st party titles, which end up killing 3rd party sales. They also complain they cannot complete against Nintendo's regular releases of 1st party titles, which ends up making it very hard for 3rd parties to gets sales on Nintendo systems.
6) Microsoft and Sony do the following"
a) They pay a significant portion to the whole amount of marketing for a given 3rd party game
b) They regularly pay significant portions to the whole development costs for 3rd party games.
c)They rarely release 1st party software, when they do they make sure it doesn't damage the major 3rd party game when deciding the release dates.
d)They help do some if not the majority of the porting and/or development of a 3rd party title for their systems.
e) Microsoft is known for giving EA and Activision part of the Xbox Live revenue.
f) Both are known for regularly ensuring 3rd parties make profit off major games (as in eating the losses).
Last generation Microsoft and Sony both spent ~$500M to get major 3rd party games on their systems (This is just marketing and development money).
That is $1B with both combined.
This gen Microsoft has committed $1 Billion to secure 3rd party support for Xbox One.
Sony in the end should land between $500M and $1B in securing 3rd party support for PS4.
Nintendo will win back Western 3rd party support if they do the following:
1) Give 3rd parties the launch window with no 1st party competition
2) Pay the development cost for each 3rd party game, to make sure that 3rd parties make full profit on each copy sold
3) Limit 1st party release to 1-3 games a year, so they don't kill 3rd party sales.
4) Release their games in off months, so 3rd parties can take the big months to themselves.
5) BAN ALL Soft T, E10+ and E rated games from the NX, to ensure the library is made for the "hardcore" gamers.
6) Pay for the marketing of 3rd party games
7) Use your internal studios to port and develop NX versions of 3rd party games
8)Make sure at every press event and Direct that 3rd party games get the lime light with very little time spent on 1st party games.
9)Make sure the marketing drives away everyone who isn't a "hardcore" gamer (those who play shooters, AAA games, realistic sports games etc...).
10) Make sure the Nintendo name is no where to be found on the hardware, marketing or in retail shelf where the hardware is sold.
Doing these 10 things should get large amount of 3rd party support back, but it would mean losing money handover fist and the end of 1st party software.
@HalloHerrNoob - those titles may be high selling games, overall, but they tank on Nintendo systems. Even on the Wii with 100+ million customers the highest placed Fifa game is 139. Yes there will be some who will want them, but it would be no great shame if they weren't there.
@MarvinTheMartian
Umm Nintendo's market has never been dedicated gamers EVER!
Nor have they targeted the "hardcore" market either.
Nintendo's main market since the NES has always been "casuals", kids, families, nerds, etc...
All of which are still driving Just Dance, Disney Infinity, Mario, Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Mario Maker, Zelda, Cities Skylines etc...
Dedicated gamers are the main ones buying CoD, FIFA, EA Sports, Assassins Creed, Fall Out etc...
Dedicated gamers don't buy Japanese games for the most part anymore.
This is why games like Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid came to the PC.
@Xenocity "give 3rd parties the launch window with no 1st party competition"
this part made me really feel like responding.
I don't think Nintendo should ever be the company to do something like that. At this stage in the company's life, they have become something akin to an art house. Niche, specialized, highly tailored, even artisanal.
In no way whatsoever should their identity on the market be further compromised by handing the stage to hyper-commercial, ultra-realistic games — and I very strongly feel that this kind of game content was in question when it was suggested to give third parties a chance. Because this worked for the 3DS at launch? No, it completely failed.
Because the subject of "what the NX should aim to do" is then suddenly interesting, here is what I do feel.
If they want to win a gamer back, clean and simple.
Realize that the industry is now split down the "middle" into three distinct types of gaming scenes: (a) the New Wave of Indie Games, a direct result of the casual marketplace and the modern media landscape, where making games is becoming more accessible. This scene includes everything out of the iOS-type sector (iPhone) and not just the deeper indie cuts like Braid, Terraria, Bit.trip, etc. (b) the hyper-realistic scene, games so naturalistic, sharp and detailed that one would need a giant TV screen to truly appreciate everything that is going on in-game. Includes most Xbox One and PS4 games. Games so cinematic they simply forgot about accommodating more than one player per giant tv screen. (c) Arthouse, which most notably describes Nintendo. Other brands approximate this in other ways: Disney, classic LucasArts adventure-type stuff, Studio Ghibli in Japan. These games do not result simply from the first two types, they are not a result of mere evolving technology, or of exponentially increasing accessibility to gaming and game making. They are forever and always: operatic, artistic, something of a mix of the former two, sophisticated yet accessible, they are somewhere in between the former two types of games.
If Nintendo want to succeed, they ABSOLUTELY need to know their place here and now in the gaming sphere, know into which box out of the three they have always comfortably been in, and then make sure they simply and confidently identify the other two types of games and how they can relate to them, positively, on their home console. How they can make their home console both competitive (there simply is no other game maker in category (c) like Nintendo, but sadly also I wonder if they themselves realize what makes their games operatic and artistic anymore) - and additionally, how they can make their console popular (attract games from a and b I'm guessing — or, screen games from types a and b).
@MarvinTheMartian
That really has nothing to do with my point.
If Nintendo wants to produce a mainstream gaming plattform on par (saleswise) with the XBone or PS they need games like COD, FIFA or AC.
No matter how many awesome Zelda or Mario titles, for a lot of gamers having no access to their favorite 3d party franchise means that they consider a console a second buy at best.
This has nothing to do with being a "Nintendo-System". The game-market is far less brand-driven (hardwarewise) than people think. People switched from Nintendo to Sony (PS1-2) to Microsoft (XBox 360) to Sony (PS4). But to convince people to switch having 3party franchises is extremely important.
Good news though: Its nothing too complicated. If Nintendo can build an easy to use architecture and competeitive hardware-sets, 3parties will port their games cause it takes little effort. The problem is that for the WiiU the effort is just too big (because of the 2nd screen, the non-x86-architecture and the low specs).
@MarvinTheMartian
EA sports on Wii were horrible from the beginning and EA didn't bother to market them.
EA pushed the HD versions in every marketing channel with no mention of the Wii versions.
PS1 the top 5 games are:
GT1 at 10.85M
FFVII at 9.72M
GT2 at 9.37M
RE1 at 9M
Tekken 3 at 8.5M
Harry Potter:TPS at 8M
Everything else is less than 8M but have sold at least 1M.
This list of millions sellers is again mainly licensed junk, sports games, racing games. there are other titles too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PlayStation_video_games
The main list of games that broke 1 million on PS2 according to Wiki mainly consist of licensed junk, shooters, EA Sports (including Madden and FIFA), with GTA SA and GT3 leading the pack.
The top 5 games are:
GTA:SA at ~17M+
GT3 at almost 15M
GT4 at almost 12M
GTA:VC at ~9.6M
GTAIII at ~7.9
MGS2 at 7M
everything else is sub 7 million.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PlayStation_2_video_games
The list is quite awful in my book.
The PS3 top 5 games are:
GTAV at ~21M
GT5 at 10.6M
TLoU at 7M
MGSIV at 6M
GT5P at 5.35M
Almost half the list of the million sellers on PS3 are shooters, mainly Call of Duty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#PlayStation_3
The top 5 selling games on Xbox are:
Halo 2 at 8M
Halo 1 at 5M
Fable at 3M
Splinter Cell at 3M
PGR at 2.5M
The rest of the list mainly consists of Star Wars games and Sports games.
The Xbox 360 top 5 best selling game are:
Kinect Adventures! at 24M
GTAV at almost 18M
Halo 3 at 14.5M
Minecraft at 13M
COD: BO 1 at 12M
The majority of the list consists of shooters, sports and AC games for games that sold over 1M.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Xbox_360_video_games
Gamecube:
Melee at ~7M
Double Dash at ~7M
Sunshine at ~6.3M
Windwaker at ~4.3M
Luigi's Mansion at ~3.6M
Many 3rd party titles made the list, primarily Sega who cleaned up good on the million seller list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Nintendo_GameCube_video_games
Wii obviously the best selling games were first party.
Though plenty of 3rd parties did sell well on the system easily passing the million mark.
This includes Just Dance, Legos, Red Steel 1, Sonic games, RE 4, Monster Hunter 3 etc...
3rd parties made up 2/3rd of the total software sold on Wii.
@jord
Actually NPD and EEDAR in 2013 defined gamers into 6 groups.
Casual Gamers
Core Console Gamers (plays Xbox or PS systems)
Family Gamers
Social Gamers
Free & Mobile Gamers (mobile gamers)
Omni Gamers (multiplatform)
https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/press-releases/the-npd-group-free-and-mobile-gamer-segment-is-the-largest-group-of-gamers-in-the-us/
Nintendo's users typically fall into casual, family, social and some into the omni gamer.
@Xenocity Translation:
Ridiculously insular (North American), supremely impractical, embarrassingly sectioned out and uneconomical, unergonomic list.
@HalloHerrNoob
Also not entirely true.
Most gamers who jumped ship from Nintendo went to Genesis/MD for the adult content and never returned.
Sega's marketing was bout them having the mature and "hardcore" content, while Nintendo had kiddy content your little brother played and games your parents and family played.
PS1 took it further and made damn sure everyone knew the system blew the N64 out of the water with CGI graphics while N64 suffered from those awful polygons. Sony really hit it home with marketing that PS1 was for those wanting mature and "hardcore" content in full CGI state of the art graphics and Nintendo was the choice for those who wanted kiddy games and those inferior blocky polygons.
Also Sony advertised the PS1 as the best CD player to play Michael Jackson's new album on (PS1 was for the longest time the cheapest CD player on the market).
Sony only lost market share to Xbox 360 and Wii because blu-ray and cell drove up the cost of PS3 passed the $600 price mark.
The $600 PS3 was costing $400+ to sell.
The $400 PS3 was costing $300 to sell
Sony also lagged at getting PSN up and running, and also lagged at getting trophies.
Sony marketed PS3 for most of it's life as a HD multimedia center instead of marketing games.
360 out of the gate had the best multiplatform titles, the best version of EA and Activision games, lots of exclusive DLC, and finally Xbox Live was up and running from the get go.
PS4 only succeeded because Sony promised you could sell and trade your games.
Xbox One is still known for banning used games to this day in public eyes.
@jord
I hate to break it to you North America is the single biggest market for nearly all video and computer games.
NPD and EEDAR also do data collection in the UK and EU proper.
UK, Australia, France, Germany, Canada, NZ, and Spain all mirror U.S. in the games they buy.
That's why Europe gets lumped with the U.S. when talking about Western games.
@Xenocity - "Umm Nintendo's market has never been dedicated gamers EVER!"
I'm sorry, but that's just plain wrong - Smash & MK8 are massive with dedicated gamers and two of biggest sellers on all of Nintendo platforms. Yes they cater for casual market as well; hence the brilliance of Nintendo games. Smash is getting bigger & bigger with proper dedicated tournaments. I would even say Splatoon is going that way as well, and look at Mario Maker! How huge is that becoming!! Agreed there is a part of Nintendo that targets the casuals, sometimes with garbage. And that they market themselves as fun for the family, but Smash is for hardcode and casuals alike.
COD & Fifa may have dedicated gamers as you say, I don't know as I don't play them, but it is true that they cater for the casual market.
@Xenocity Go ahead and say that in 5-10 years when China including the rest of the world sky rockets through these data groups' sales figures in the very same way they already have intensively swayed the Hollywood market.
Data analysis is not the utter problem, with the list's group titles, but the very choice of the titles themselves (Omni gamers.. wow) and the agency of those who from a cultural standpoint make the definitions from a clearly North American perspective.
Nowhere on earth outside of the U.S. proper would names such as social gamers, family gamers, and "Omni" gamers for heaven's sake be juxtaposed for the purposes of industry analysis. Are we talking about media consumers or food here.
From the get-go, the three types of gaming scenes I put forth more inclusively describe both producers and consumers of games. Your measly list is simply a base, uninteresting mash-up or bastardization of an assortment of media consumers.
@MarvinTheMartian
Actually you are wrong.
Nintendo games are known through out the Western world for being made for kids and "casuals".
Smash is seen by the industry or the Western markets as casual party game with some fighting mechanics.
Mario Kart even to this day has the stigma of being called "my first racer".
Splatoon was given the nickname in the U.S. and on other gaming forums as "baby's first shooter". the game is constantly mocked for having bright colors and inklings.
Nintendo and their games have been called kiddy and "casual" going back to the NES in the West.
None of their new games have been able to shake that image.
I hope they keep the name. NX has such a good feeling to it.
@Xenocity - So I'm wrong about the dedicated Smash tournaments around the world. How ignorant.
A game's aesthetics have nothing to do with who they are aimed for. COD is largely easy pick up and play, but yet has the tag of being hardcode for dedicated gamers. Perhaps it's just the mature content.
And tell the crew here at Nintendolife on your thoughts on Splatoon. I'm sure Alex Olney would have a few words on your thoughts on it.
"Splatoon was given the nickname in the U.S. and on other gaming forums as "baby's first shooter" - well you've already shown your ignorance with not realising that the world isn't contained within the US borders.
1. Making consumers care.
2. Making developers care.
3. Making the gaming press care.
4. Making the mainstream press care.
5. Selling the d*mn thing.
@jord
Yeah not likely for these reasons:
1) China's economy is rapidly cooling as the main driver of economic growth (government spending) is slowing and the second driver of growth (manufacturing) is moving back to the West for many products and cheap goods are moving into Bangladesh, Cambodia, and parts of Africa for cheaper labor.
China is just too expensive and too lack with IP theft to be competitive now.
2) India, Brazil, South Africa and Russia the 4 other fastest growing economies are heading into deep recessions wiping out a lot of the economic growth that coined the the BRICS Nations (C is for China).
3) China, Russia, India, Brazil, South Africa, Middle East, and few other places restrict foreign media sales and are very restrictive when it comes to selling video game hardware, video games software (both physical and digital), computer hardware and computer software (including Steam). It's very hard to get any real sales here to the restrictions on sales and the huge taxes for being foreign made.
3) China blocks Steam, most of Xbox software, most computer games, most other video games, most PS video games etc... from sale due them being foreign and having threatening content.
India also blocks most foreign content, especial games and digital software.
Brazil taxes everything foreign to the hilt, making it hugely expensive to buy video games. They are also censored.
Russia blocks most gaming sales due to foreign content and censorship.
South Africa is better, but still highly restrictive.
Middle East is almost as bad as China and Russia (including Israel).
4) Data analysis on China shows that they mainly play casual games on their PCs or they are only interested in games made in China depending on which report you use.
5) China, most of South America, Africa, and Russia have a long tradition of pirating everything from video games to Windows OSs. How do you end piracy and convince them to actually buy legit copies of software?
Hell they even make pirated car parts and other physical goods in China too.
Until these things change for the better, Americans will still be the "world's consumers" (We are well known for spending the most money on practically everything).
@Xenocity Allow me:
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2015/10/15/china-to-earn-an-estimated-22-billion-in-2015-video-game-revenue
@MarvinTheMartian
I didn't say you were wrong about tourneys and competitions.
Just because a game is used in them, doesn't make the game a dedicated gamers game.
I love most Nintendo games and plenty of other games on other platforms.
The games I play aren't considered real games, "hardcore" games, and dedicated gamer games.
Hell I own and regularly play Splatoon and Am still unlocking stuff in Smash Wii U.
I've been told by people on a regular basis including this year that I need to grow up and play real games. This includes my grandmothers who can't understand why I, a 30 man still plays games with bright colors and cartoonish characters when all the other guys play violent stuff.
My own father keeps asking me when I'm going to grow up and play real games (Shooters) on real systems (Xbox and Playstation).
http://www.idigitaltimes.com/splatoon-release-date-will-nintendos-wii-u-shooter-offer-anything-hardcore-gamers-427562
idigitaltimes echoes how the "hardcore" gamers and the mainstream press feels about Splatoon and Nintendo in general.
@Quorthon Ah yes. The old 'Wii and DS were flukes' rhetoric never disappoints. Who's to say the NX can't be another 'fluke'? Who's to say Nintendo can't unexpectedly capture the market again? Maybe it will. Maybe it won't. But to dismiss Nintendo's highest-selling consoles as a one-time deal is very naive.
My thoughts on third parties - screw 'em. The 'triple A' industry is becoming a bloated, misshapen monstrosity with every passing year. Studio closures, buggy/incomplete products, and penny-pinching practices are just some of the issues running rife in the industry. Nintendo kowtowing to their demands would be the worst thing they could possibly do. Instead, they should further foster relationships with the indies - who represent the future. Both Microsoft and Sony are now firmly clasped in the iron grip of the thirds. Both companies have been duped into handing over their independence to the EAs and Activisions of this world. Multi-million dollar 'exclusivity' bidding wars are now commonplace, and specialised networks like EA Access and UPlay (or whatever it's called now) are slowly encroaching upon the established revenue streams. More and more, these publishers are sucking their host consoles dry - like parasites. Just take a glance at all the accounts you need with most of them, and the features they lock away behind paywalls. Additionally, many of them are abandoning the console marketplace in the pursuit of the almighty mobile dollar.
Ironically enough, emulating the competition is something Nintendo shouldn't do if they want unprecedented third party support. They shouldn't cater to their whims, but rather focus on creating an entirely new ecosystem that presents fresh opportunities. Basically, build it, and they will come. Even the mobile space is regressing in terms of revenue (shock!) - which reinforces the notion that nothing is infallible. Iwata once said that Nintendo needed to be paranoid, and never rely on the same old, same old. He was right - and Nintendo cannot be dictated by what is perceived as 'right' or 'common sense'. They shouldn't bow down to the whining of those that want them to 'fall in line'.
Of course, such a philosophy can be detrimental oftentimes (as seen in the current state of the company), but it is one built on long-term fortunes - rather than the short-term. I'm not saying that Nintendo haven't made mistakes - of course they have. However, to suggest that the firm should blindly follow the business methods of others ignores why they have lasted for so long.
@jord
Yes I know the stats.
It's driven by PC (mainly MMOs and their micro transactions) and mobile gaming.
But does mobile games and games made distinctly made for PCs count as part of gaming or do they count separately?
The Answer: it depends on the company you ask (or analyst).
Right now the allotment of each specific gaming system is 100k (or did they finally lift it?)
Chinese government has to approve all foreign games for sale as well, which is why very few are available for purchase.
I've known my fair share of people from China and India.
Also that report estimates the current revenue from China, since you cannot easily and accurately get real economic data in China.
If they have actual economic data on China, it is given to them by the Chinese government. Chinese government has long been cooking the books on Chinese economy which is no big secret.
Also you need to understand how artificially low the Chinese Yuan is kept against the U.S. Dollar and other major currencies.
Until China ends it's insular polices towards most foreign made products, it won't be of much focus or concern for most industries.
FYI Chinese government has being preparing it's citizens for the "new normal" for the past few years as they brace for rapid cool down of the economy.
If you've ever studied international and China's economy, you will know that Chinese leadership is preparing for 3% or less annual economic growth by 2018.
Chinese government doesn't want to open up and liberalize their economy to keep it growing at decent pace.
This mainly out of fear of foreigners and revolution.
I predict China will stabilize between $10T - $13T in total economic size and then creep along or face Stagnation (either Soviet style, Japanese Style, Brazil Style, or South Korea style).
I haven't read all of the article or comments but I think Nintendo need to get the likes of FIFA, Cod and GTA onto the NX to get the interest of the Xbox and playstation customers. Now if the NX can run these games on the go and on the TV at home I believe it will sell very well.
I think everyone is missing the point here. Nintendo is not cool anymore. Even if they brought out a system 10 times stronger than PS4 public perception would still say they suck. The only way Nintendo can turn it around is to dig into their massive warchest and give J.R.R. Martin a brown paper bag with a billion dollars in it, to write Link as a main character into the storyline of Game of Thrones. This would completely change their public perception and eventually rake in the $$
@Kage_88
You don't need accounts to back your claim.
Just look at how many millions Sony and Microsoft are spending to keep EA, Ubisoft and Activision happy (well Activision isn't that bad compared to the other two).
Didn't Microsoft say they inked a $400M deal with EA for the gen?
I know they did something similar to the NFL to gain their content.
EA stopped putting their games on Steam at the end of 2013 and are gradually removing their existing Steam catalog.
If you want EA's PC offerings (slim pickings compared to consoles), you must use Origin for the post 2013 games.
I hear Ubisoft requires you to use U-play even if you buy the game on Steam (I don't play Ubisoft games). I think they do the same for Origin too.
Their PC offerings are horribly ported to PC as a general rule.
Activision's PC ports lack feature parity with the consoles, especially COD.
The point is I agree with you full heartedly, just expounding on how bad the Big 3 treat PC too.
@3DS_excel
In a perfect world that would work.
Nintendo already tried to get a GTA game on Wii, Rockstar was only willing to do Manhunt 2 as test game.
Rockstar has been very open about refusing to develop for a Nintendo console.
Rockstar openly states they don't like Nintendo!
Rockstar also has made it clear they are never developing for a handheld again.
EA on the other hand threatened not to support the N64 unless Nintendo gave concessions to them.
EA demanded bigger concessions from Nintendo in order to support the Gamecube.
EA won concessions to support Wii and DS.
EA demanded even bigger concessions from Nintendo to support Wii U, Nintendo said NO!
EA then went next door to Microsoft and won even bigger concessions from Microsoft to support the Xbox One.
EA tried to win the same concessions out of Sony, but Sony said NO!
EA won't develop for the NX unless Nintendo does exactly as they demand.
Mark my words EA won't return to Nintendo systems ever again.
Activision did release two (or was it three) Call of Duty games on Wii U.
But the Wii U games lacked DLC and a few maps.
Activision's other games are still being released on Wii U.
They need to have a strong lineup all ready for launch. Have at least 5 games or more that are exclusive to just the system, don't showcase games that will be out within the next 2 years (like they usually do), and don't make long gaps in games that people would want. If they have everything ready for the system, they should already be working on Smash, Mario Kart, a Mario adventure, Zelda and a few others...having them ready within a years time or at least have a schedule for when they will be released. As for 3rd parties, those 3rd parties need to start making them exclusives (some ready by launch), and not just cheap little party game titles, but good games that will hit more than just nintendo fans. Then, you start to look at the variety of games...no matter what, even if you don't like the various types of games, it's essential to have a strong variety. I hate shooters, but...throw them in. Party games, board games, puzzle, strategy, simulation, adventure, horror, rpg, action, sports and racing. If nintendo can get it right this time, they could have a powerful system that can attract.
Advertise it and get the hype ready. The more hype, means a bigger crowd to get it on day one.
Agree with all the points, I strongly believe games and hype are selling systems though, so they really need to get as many exclusives as they can, first and third party, advertise them like there's no tomorrow, and reap the benefits. And of course securing all main yearly multiplats (CoD, Fifa, etc), that's mandatory: paying, bribing, everything they need to do to make it happen.
@Xenocity
Any links for all these 'all third-parties hate Nintendo' stories please?
@IceClimbers "Pokken Tournament is apparently not doing well in Japanese arcades, as it's being pulled due from some arcades due to unpopularity."
Man, you always know things. (Thats a compliment, not sure how it reads, probably jerky.)
I can't really call a Mario Tennis trailer "news". I'm glad they put something out on social media, but I posted on twitter a couple of times yesterday too, that doesn't make it "news". I consider something "new" to be news, I'm funny that way. amiibo support, bundled w/ Wii U for $249, play online multiplayer with a 3DS version (my kid who owns the 3DS version and wasn't impressed with it says this looks just like that, once again affirming my belief that Ntinedo doesn't really need a Home console b/c it doesn't make games for Home consoles). It's just a trailer on Youtube. If it were a trailer inside a Nintendo Direct,the ND would certainly be news. And as today is Wednesday I half expect an announcement today for an ND on Friday, possibly w/ a BTTF tie-in. The hour is getting late.
@TheRealThanos Let's Go Mets!
But I'll forgive you since you are currently residing on that side of the pond.
I would go back to my Mr Mets avatar I used for a few weeks but I'm seriously afraid to jinx it. Crazy superstitious sports fans.
Also what happened to Nintendo's "QoL"? Is that just becoming vapourware?
@Captain_Gonru I think Kevin Smith already owns that Podcast name.
What NL needs is a "reply all" button, b/c I'm old and arthritic. Ok, maybe just lazy.
As fun as it's been theorizing, I would like some actual info. Maybe we can start a pool - How many times does Nintendo talk about "not talking about NX until 2016" before years end? I say 5.
@Kage_88
Simply put: If the NX is another fluke (and there is no indication that it will be, as the hype for it is borderline non-existent compared to the Wii or DS), it will only lead to the same problems that Nintendo still has to deal with. The Wii and DS were indeed flukes, statistical anomalies--outside the norm for the company. And after they were gone and the dust settled, it was clear that Nintendo hadn't fixed any of their real problems, as they came back to bite them in the ass again for the Wii U and 3DS.
Naive would be to think the Wii and DS were somehow major turn-around points for Nintendo. They weren't. Indeed, there was more Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon plugging on those machines than any before--they didn't change their focus or become more confident in other franchises. Their relationships with third parties didn't magically improve or turn around, and they worsened drastically over the generation, leading into dismal starts for the Wii U and 3DS.
Naive would be to dismiss years of data and an obvious downward trend because the Wii and DS did well in the short term. That is both naive and cherry-picking data so that you can feel good about it. For that matter, the Wii, despite it's sales, lost incredible momentum after 2009, right around when the X360 and PS3 found new momentum and the sales trends for these consoles completely reversed, with the Wii dropping off sharply over the next three years while the X360 and PS3 remained steady for the next four. The X360 and PS3 also each have over 1000 more games released for them than the Wii, which meant that even when Nintendo had hardware sales, the games sold better elsewhere, and were made elsewhere in higher numbers.
If you want to say "screw 'em" to third parties, then you might as well say "screw it" to the NX as well. Basically, you want the NX to start from an even worse losing position than it will be facing already--as it launches at the time the PS4 and XBO reach their generational peak in terms of sales and momentum.
Nintendo is only going to get out this hole by being themselves, not by pretending to be Sony and Microsoft. Three identical consoles means the death of the weakest and Nintendo is currently the weakest. To prevent that they need to probably do the following:
1. Play to their strengths. They are the only console still family focused in a console world that mostly has forgotten. Court Traveler's Tales, Disney Interactive and Activision to make the NX the premier place for their games.
2. Increase Nintendo's own output. If not in retail releases, then in "seasons" of eShop releases that are later collected and released on disc (if discs still exists).
3. Use the eShop to revive inactive franchises. Experiment with Excite, Kid Icarus, F-Zero, and every other franchise that Nintendo seems scared to do something with. Maybe an eShop release will build a fanbase to support a full retail game. At the same time: experiment because the next Splatoon might be around the corner.
4. Fix the online offerings. DRM and online connectivity shouldn't be this hard, and it has to be fixed. It is considered a part of the package now.
5. Virtual Console. Get your act together and create a sane and well announced release schedule, and do what it takes to keep them coming. Use them as a tool to promote upcoming stuff, and to fill in gaps while the library builds. Turn the releases into events. Summer of Virtual Console or Month of strange Mario games.
@rjejr Normally I'd agree, but the trailer did confirm new (or rather returning) characters in Daisy, Waluigi, and Boo. That's the only reason I'd consider it news.
@IceClimbers "did confirm new (or rather returning)"
Well, if there were new characters it would be news, but since it's just returning characters then it's just, um, well lets just say it's not news.
On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being a date for the Shovel knight amiibo, 5 being a Wii U price cut, and 10 being Reggie's fired, I'd put this at about one tenth. Nintendo Direct on Friday would be about a 7 or 8 depending on the content. It's an 11 if it's called "NX in 2016".
@electrolite77
http://nintendoeverything.com/dan-adelman-on-third-parties-nintendo-culture-demos-eshop-quality-control-virtual-console/
Interview with the guy who used to run the eShop and 3rd party relation at Nintendo. He also worked Microsoft first in the 3rd party relationship department.
He openly discussed how hard it was to get major 3rd parties to work on Nintendo systems without giving them subsidizes and money hats.
https://dromble.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/howard-lincoln-kicking-ass-before-reggie-came-along/
You can read the section about how EA forced major concessions from Nintendo in order to get EA support on Nintendo 64.
You can read this article on what EA tried to pull on Gamecube
https://dromble.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/dolphin-tale-story-of-gamecube/
Here is also another good read
https://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/email-my-take-on-one-of-nintendos-biggest-mistakes/
The leak from within EA said this in January 2014, prompting Mr. Moore to respond publicly.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/131584-UPDATE-Nintendo-Was-Dead-to-Us-After-Wii-U-Launch-Says-EA-Source
Nintendo regularly met with Rockstar to get a GTA game on Wii and Wii U, but Rockstar didn't want to do that.
Minecraft proper hasn't come to a Nintendo system because Notch openly stated he doesn't like Nintendo.
Whether Microsoft honors his beliefs is a different story.
@rjejr
That was one lesser known arcade that removed Pokken.
There is no other reports of Pokken doing badly in Japan.
@Quorthon
Not entirely true.
Wii and DS acquired the PS1 and PS2 main audiences, you know the ones who aren't "hardcore" gamers.
3rd party games sold better on the other systems compared to Wii, because 3rd parties never released their main games on Wii because they didn't think those games would sell.
Though Call of Duty sold millions on Wii, EA sports did before EA decided to turn the Wii versions into All-Play with cartoonish Mii graphics. This killed their sports sales on Wii.
EA's Grand Slam Tennis did all right.
EA's other games did well, but not on par with Madden and FIFA (there other games never do).
Third parties also did send a lot of their games to die on Wii, by not promoting them and under shipping them.
If you wanted the Silent Hills reboot on Wii, you were lucky if you could find the game because Konami shipped very few copies of the game to market.
Most other games of that were made by major 3rd parties were under shipped as well.
The 3rd parties that found success on Wii were:
Activision
Ubisoft
WBi
Sega
Capcom
Square-Enix
Hudson (Though not enough to cover their HD failures)
KT
Namco
A few others that I can't think of at the moment.
These three companies saw varying degrees of success:
Lucas Arts (since went bankrupt)
Konami
EA
Midway
Wii's attach rate is ~9 according to Nintendo's own numbers
PS3 attach rate is ~9 according to Sony's own numbers
DS attach rate is ~6
Though Xbox 360 has the highest attach rate of all time at ~10
People don't release how few 3rd party console developers there are left from last gen.
The industry saw massive consolidation of 3rd parties last gen as studios were bought out or went bankrupt.
Wii U has been good to these 3rd parties:
Capcom - eShop and VC have been good to them, just as Wii U owners were good to Monster Hunter 3G.
WBi - their E rated game sell the best on Wii U.
Ubisoft, especially with Rayman and Just Dance (Their M rated games are quite hard to find on Wii U due to under shipping, though Zombi/ZombiU sold better on Wii U than the port did on the others).
Activision - they still release most of their games on Wii U
Disney - Disney infinity sells the best on Wii U compared to PS4 and Xbox One.
KT - their games did decent with Hyrule Warriors being the best selling Mosou game in the West.
Sega - Sonic All-Stars Racing Transformed on Wii U outsold the other console versions by far. Though the Steam version may have passed it by now with the regular free giveaways and sales.
Indies are also doing quite well on both 3DS and Wii U to the point YCG has been able to make Shovel Knight into a big brand. Over half of Shovel Knight sales are on 3DS and Wii U, dwarfing the other platforms.
Western 3rd parties have made very few games for 3DS, though to be fair Western 3rd parties typically avoid handhelds and focus on consoles.
Japanese 3rd parties are doing well on 3DS, with Capcom, Level 5 and Square-Enix doing really well.
As for this gen the attach rates are:
Wii U ~6
Xbox One ~6
PS4 ~4
3DS ~5
Vita ~10
To say Nintendo has no 3rd party support is patently false, it just doesn't have many AAA 3rd party games, M-rated 3rd party games, and full Minecraft (though Minecraft is due to Notch).
I think multiple gamepads (with touch screens) will totally nail local multiplayer. This for me is Nintendo's strength and always has been. Granted it has come along way since the NES days where players would mostly take turns on a game but aside from controller evolution, Nintendo has also moulded local multiplayer. This is for everyone. It's not hardcore or casual, kiddy or mature...it is the nature of this hobby....FUN!
@Xenocity
Again with the blatant Nintendo fan(boy) blaming of third parties. No, they didn't release the games on the Wii for PRACTICAL REASONS, not simply because they didn't think they'd sell (which would be accurate given the Nintendo fanboy history of hating 3rd parties for any issue, real or perceived). Namely, the most popular engine of the last generation was Unreal 3--an engine that DID NOT RUN on the Wii. It would have been a waste of resources to attempt to cobble together inferior versions for a platform wherein the biggest supporters (Nintendo fans) have a history of the very sh*tty attitude you express towards 3rd parties.
For instance, you want to "blame EA" for wanting something extra to work on the N64? Wouldn't you want some incentive to work on a system that was more expensive to develop for, harder to develop for, limited with cartridges, where third parties struggle for sales, and also had lower hardware sales than the competition? OF COURSE YOU WOULD. Sony didn't have to do this for EA, because it was obvious that the Playstation would bring them huge dividends and success, which it did. The N64 was a tough sell for a huge variety of reasons.
For all intents and purposes, Nintendo doesn't have any meaningful 3rd party support. They got a lot of bad indies on-board early on, and are even losing them now. My team, for instance, did not make back the money we spent on the Wii U, and our game reviewed generally positively (aside from two rubbish reviews that clearly were unfamiliar with the very genre). But, we did get approved for Sony development, and we just passed Steam Greenlight, and we feel much more confident about these two platforms. It didn't help that by the time we released, crap like Rcmadiax's throwaway garbage and travesties like The Letter and Meme Run had started turning the Wii U eShop into a dumping ground for trash. But still, disappointing. Unless the game has Mario, Link, or Pikachu in it, or is occasionally a blatant retro throw-back to an era when Nintendo has some real influence, Nintendo fans ignore it. And it has been like this for generations, and that's not changing now.
The Wii and DS did not attract the "normal PS1 and PS2 audiences." Those audiences went to the X360 and PS3. The difference is that instead of Sony having almost all of them, they were split largely evenly between the X360 and PS3 . Xbox + PS2 sales equaled roughly 170 million, X360 + PS3 sales equaled roughly 175 million. Sony seems to be back on track for the PS4 to bring many of those gamers back under the Sony roof. The Wii and DS attracted a very temporary new audience that has since moved onto mobile, PC, Facebook, Xbox, Playstation, or just burned out from the fad. Those people were clearly not long-term investors in the Nintendo brand of entertainment, or they'd still be here, and the Wii U wouldn't be a failure.
Further evidence that the Wii and DS were flukes is that they didn't have staying power. While the DS did respectably last quite a while, the Wii started dying off early and took a three-year nosedive in sales and support after it peaked in 2009. An actual successful console like the PS2 continued to sell strongly even a year or two after it's successor was out. And for all the championing of sales that Nintendo fans like to throw around for the Wii--it only got that way based on a temporary gimmick that most peopled tired of in short time. The PS3 and X360 managed almost the same sales (together grossly dwarfing the Wii) without a heavy reliance on gimmickry. According to Wikipedia, the final tally for the PS3 is around 87 million, and 84 million for the X360. The Wii is at 101 million. That's less than the PS2 (145 million) and PS1 (102 million), and those systems sold that without gimmicks.
The Wii was a fluke, sorry, but that's the reality. And Nintendo had no clear plan on how to capitalize or continue after it--which is slightly less troubling than the realization that they had little plan in place to even maintain the Wii or give it long-lasting value. The Wii was dead months before the Wii U launched. The X360 and PS3 are still relevant. Because those machines had staying power and longevity, and their makers planned for long-term success.
Nintendo cares about whatever fad will bring in your dollars now from selling hardware and plastic. Look as how much effort they've put into shoehorning Amiibo use into games instead of actually making more games.
I'm not sure where you're getting your fantasy numbers for that post, aside from pulling them directly from your behind, but even notoriously shaky VGChartz lists Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing as selling better on the X360 and PS3. According to them, Rayman Legends sold better on PS3 and PS4. Overall, according to them, Disney Infinity 1 sold well on the original Wii, and then collectively did way better on X360 and PS3. This franchise makes sense to be selling better on older systems (X360 and PS3 over XBO and PS4) since parents of the kids getting these are unlikely early adopters of new hardware. They're already spending a mint on these figures anyway.
The only games that sell "best on Wii U" are the ones made by Nintendo and exclusive to it. If it's third party, it does better elsewhere.
Again, the Wii was a fluke. Third parties found some success on the platform for a while--but only in targeting the kids and casuals market, never in high-profile releases, and this matters. On top of this, even this support dropped off sharply in the final years while it picked up for X360 and PS3. Almost every sequel released on the Wii sold considerably worse than the predecessor, including Red Steel and No More Heroes and Disney Infinity. OH WAIT. Disney Infinity 2 didn't even see release on the Wii. Funny, you'd think since the first sold so well, the second would be a shoe-in. I guess Disney felt otherwise. The sequel sold way better on the X360 and PS3 than the Wii U.
@Quorthon
Don't mind me, I'm just watching the show with popcorn. Haha.
You brought up a wonderful memory for me. Well, wonderful and sad at the same time. Red Steel 2 was perhaps my favorite game on the Wii. Such a shame they made nothing on that game.
Sorry to hear your game made nothing back on Wii U. This is the first I've heard this. I found the gameplay quite enjoyable, so take that for what it's worth. Good luck with Steam and Playstation, you do have a good game on your hands.
@Quorthon Hi, I haven't seen you around this site for what feels like months. How's it going? I was missing hearing your take on topics.
@Quorthon
It's such a pleasure to see you around again. And it's also good to know I'm not the only one who thinks that the NX, in Nintendo's current state, is practically destined for failure. Third parties absolutely detest Nintendo's platforms and Nintendo has only made that worse by snidely walking around E3 2015 and judging people's work. Not to mention Nintendo only just recently gave third parties dev kits for the NX, and we're likely within a year of release! And compounding the issues is the fact that releasing the NX right smack in the middle of Sony/MS's stride is a terrible idea, and when the inevitable new generation releases in 3 or 4 years, Nintendo will be behind yet again. This and dozens of other internal and external factors pretty much solidify the NX's failure at this point, unless Nintendo has been working hard at fixing all of these issues, which we have absolutely no indication of.
The Wii U has been dead in the water, even to Nintendo, for almost a full year now. There hasn't been a first party AAA release on the system since Smash Bros., and that was almost a full year ago. And the only one coming out in the foreseeable future is Xenoblade, a niche JRPG title that only the Nintendo hardcore seem to care about. This has been the fastest and most abrupt ending to a home console Nintendo has ever done, and that's saying a lot.
@Quorthon The difference is that instead of Sony having almost all of them, they were split largely evenly between the X360 and PS3 . Xbox + PS2 sales equaled roughly 170 million, X360 + PS3 sales equaled roughly 175 million.
I will call BS on this statement. You can't freaking add up the PS2 numbers with the OG Xbox number. The PS2 continued to be sold for an additional 6 years after the Xbox was discontinued. Also, approx. 50 million of the PS2 come from Sony targeting emerging markets during PS2 later years. (And I am not trying to knock down from during this. Your inference is straight up wrong)
Furthermore, Xbox 360 and PS3 loss BILLIONS OF DOLLARS . In all honesty, Xbox 360 and PS3, given the backing of the ENTIRE INDUSTRY and given the length of time that the Xbox 360 and PS3 were supported to be at just 170 million in sales is quite an under achievement....
Oh yeah, BTW. Don't get made at people at this site because your company game bombed. Other companies were able to find success on Nintendo's eShop platform.
Reasonable article, but 2 points i think i like to contest.
Everyone drones on and on about price point, and WiiU being too expensive. Price had little to do with WiiU failure. It was EASILY the cheapest system, with no online fees, pack in game, and fully BC with controllers and peripherals.
It should have cost more and been more powerful. PS3 did ok, and XB1 and PS4 at their prices are selling fine.
Also i get tired of reading how phones and tablets took off and caught the casual market.
Phones and tablets never outshined consoles for ppls attention.
The one sole and only reason they ever took the market is because everyone is virtually forced to own a smartphone and tablet from the age of about 7 (literally). No one goes without a phone at least.
Consoles were never less interesting devices, but they are the luxury, phones and tablets are considered necessity
@thatguyEZ
See, here's where a bit of hypocrisy comes in.
Everyone knows and criticizes Nintendo for not bringing in AAA third parties.
That's not undeserved.[though it's debatable whether AAA's did more harm than good to the Wii U by releasing nothing but old ports unless Nintendo greased their palms, but I digress...]
However, a lot of these same people who criticize Nintendo for this, are also the same type of gamer who praise both Sony and Microsoft for being a good home for indies, while simultaneously ignoring that Nintendo is just as good as them at being an indie home lately, especially with games like Shovel Knight and Shantae gaining such renown thanks to Nintendo's support.
The point I'm trying to make is that a lot of the people complaining about what Nintendo lacks, are the type that care ONLY about what Nintendo lacks, and not what it OFFERS, which makes their opinion on whether or not Nintendo's systems are worthwhile iffy, at best.
@Xenocity
Thank you.
See, people just LOVE to try and lay 100% of the blame of third parties not selling well with Nintendo on Nintendo, without taking into account that many if not most of these third parties wouldn't even make full-featured PORTS for them unless Nintendo greased their palms.
Money-hatting shouldn't be a needed concession for the sake of getting third parties to do their damned jobs right.
It's not Nintendo's job to make third party ports in a way that maximizes sales potential.
That's on third parties.
And when you release multiplats that don't even have proper optimization and lack tons of the content available everywhere else, for games that run fine on LAST GEN CONSOLES like the PS3?
Well, that's when you lose all right to be defended by anyone other than the boot-licking suck-ups who feel the hardware is the big reason why the ports were bad.
@Malakai Exactly.
@FlaygletheBagel
If you honestly think that Xenoblade X is still just a niche game despite the popularity of JRPG's and all of the great things going into it, then you don't know what you're talking about.
That's a AAA title that DESERVES to sell millions.
Even if it were on a different console, it would STILL deserve to sell millions.
JRPG's are making a resurgence right now, and this is one of the best ones of the entire year.
@smashbrolink Debatable. The game has gotten very little media coverage (even among gaming sites) and evidence largely points to the fact that the original Xenoblade Chronicles sold no more than a million copies worldwide (NN3DS version included).
Just because a game "deserves" to sell millions doesn't mean that it will. The fact that the game is a Wii U exclusive also hurts its chances of selling to its fullest potential.
Side note: I like your "subtle" attack on other consoles with the use of your qualifier, "Even if it were on a different console, it would STILL deserve to sell millions." As if being on a different console is a worse situation. Give me a break.
@smashbrolink I do agree, and there are certainly people out there like that, though I'm not one. Quite frankly I'm a bit tired of the amount of indies Sony is pushing out monthly for the PS+ IGC.
I also agree that third party studios didn't do anyone any favors by pushing garbage ports onto the Wii U. But the NX will need support from those studios if it wants to have a shot at appealing to the broader gaming community. Though if the NX is more powerful than the PS4/Xbone half the battle will already have been won.
@MoonKnight7 what game did qourthon make. I'm wondering if I have it but he's not around enough to ask anymore
due to the fact that i am into PC gaming for about a year or so, i no longer really care for 3rd party support. i can play those games on PC. all i want is a cool new Nintendo handheld with great exclusives. basically a more powerful next gen 3DS that gets rid of the flaws of the original.
Their hardcore fans will be divided - those that still want more from the Wii U and those that are happy to move on.
I, for one, will be VERY disappointed if they don't bring previously purchased games over to the NX. And I don't mean like it is on Wii U where you have to pay to 'upgrade' your games from the Wii.
We, the hardcore fans, have paid for these games over and over. It's time to be a bit more consumer-friendly, I think.
Judging by just the general 'feel' over here in the UK, the NX is already doomed. People over here buy Xbox One/PS4 because they don't want to lose all their achievements/trophies... and because of Call of Duty, and stuff. I think they'd be better off keeping the Wii U for a while...
@DarthNocturnal If they make something as powerful as the Xbox One or PS4, it can be done at a decent cost since that hardware doesn't cost nearly as much anymore. By next year if they release, they could probably release it at $350 and take the same kind of a loss they usually do at console launches.
@smashbrolink
It is a niche game.
They have some chance to success when they:
1) use a x86 architecture easy for 3rd parties ports.
2) provide HW specs slightly above (at least) the current generation
3) price the console on par with Xbox and Ps4 (revenues comes from games, not consoles....)
4) launch the console with MARIO GALAXY 3, new IPs (like Splatoon) and stop please with these copy and paste 2D Mario platformers and old abused franchises.... New generations do not care about Mario anymore....
5) STOP with old fashioned behaviours.... no more regional lock, no more single console account and so on. Welcome in 2016....
Then NX has some chance, imho. Otherwise I can see a huge and probably definitive failure for Nintendo (as HW producer)
@Captain_Gonru no the Amiibo will be the Nintendo downfall if they don't curb their obsession with linking every game to these toys.
If you look Wii U failed at every one of those 5 key challenges, so it's not unusual that failed. But I am sure that Nintendo learn lesen with Wii U and that NX very popular console.
@smashbrolink #172
Even GOOD ports (NFS, DEUS EX, Rayman aka the most amazing 2D platform on the system) and GREAT EXCLUSIVES like Bayonetta and TW101 SOLD POORLY.
Why? Because they were not called Marionetta and TW101-Links.
Every data you collect about games sales on Nintendo platforms will tell you that the average Nintendo orthodox fanboy DO NOT CARE about anything except Nintendo stuff. Why?
Because almost everyone else not single minded about Nintendo games already flew from N since the SEGA vs. Nintendo era. Because N policy has always been the "games for family" and "I have to rule on my own kingdom"....
If we are now in this situtation is also because Nintendo cares only about its aficionados and they care only about Nintendo....
@arnoldlayne83 TW101 and Bayonetta are crap.
And your "data" is wrong. Just look at Wii and DS. Third party games sold millions. Sure, the biggest hits like Wii Sports and New Super Mario Bros. Wii were Nintendo's, but third parties actually used profits from Wii games to subsidize their less profitable HD development.
Even this holiday, Just Dance 2016 has been a steady seller and has appeared in the charts in both US and Europe. And that's on the strength of the WII version. That shows that Just Dance players are loyal and consistent.
Nintendo just messed up really badly with the 3DS and especially the Wii U. Now nobody trusts them anymore. NX needs to be really good, or it'll flop like 3DS and Wii U did.
I only hope whatever codename nx becomes, it's not region locked. That's all I ask.
Very good article. Nintendo should read this
I still think, however, that one factor is more important than all of those: Timing!
And the timing is way off: A release of a new console in 2016 with games that are not vastly technichally superior to PS4 and Xone is basically pointless. We're too fae into the cycle I think. especially becsuse developers have already been working with the other tech for years.
I think it comes down to two things.
A. Can Nintendo innovate in a way that excites the market? If the answer is yes then the nx will sell. I think thats easier said than done though. I think the only gimmick console that was a success sales wise was the Wii. I think the DS was more right price and does everything the gba does better so it was an easy sale to upgrade. They really tried to jack the price with the 3ds leading to struggles.
But the Wii did it so it can be done. I just dont think it will. Apple has been tweaking the 8 year old Iphone as their biggest device so it's not easy to find the next big thing.
B. If the above fails it's all about third parties. Not sumply being able to port easily, but Nintendo reaching out to them and getting them excited about the hardware. You got to remember they are gamers too. And if you can't get them excited you aren't going to get consumers excited.
This may be a bit off subject, but I'm on the verge of picking up a PS4 or Xbone this week. This would almost guarantee that I would not pick up the NX at least for a couple years after being released. I'm currently in a tough spot. I'm starting to crave some of the mature third party games that are not present on the Wii U such as Fallout 4, Uncharted, Gears, Star Wars Battlefront, FIFA, The Division, Forza, & Metal Gear.......My hope is that with a newer stronger system, that these companies will bring their games back to Nintendo.
I'll probably end up holding out until the NX arrives but who really knows when that will be. My guess is that it will release next fall, probably September/October just in time for a nice lead up to the holidays. There are some really good titles coming out on both the Wii U and 3DS but I miss those other game series that I listed above.
Price and 3rd party support are the biggest hurdles I see. Nail those and NX has a good chance.
@foobarbaz yeah that is odd, Nintendo has proven that one company cannot solely support a platform.
Honestly I'm a little steamed from all the censorship and translations with doge memes and crap I'm probably going to wait a few years at the least before considering another nintendo console.
EA and Take Two (they never did release much on Nintendo systems) are gone for good.
EA has played hard ball and threatened to boycott every Nintendo system since SNES unless they were given special treatment.
They finally came good on Wii U.
You will still get plenty of support from Activision, Ubisoft and WB (Wii U and 3DS has all 3 supporting to this day), Japanese and indies.
Though this is all predicated[/n] on the fact that Sony and Microsoft don't force [b]non compete deals in their agreements with 3rd parties.
I doubt Sony will allow Street Fighter V to come to NX, since they are funding it.
Also you have to prove to 3rd parties that NX can sell their non E-rated games, before they support it.
As for Minecraft, it was Notch who actively refused to support 3DS and Wii U because he has a severe dislike bordering on hate for Nintendo.
It was only after Microsoft bought Mahjong from him, did they decide to negotiate with Nintendo to bring it to Wii U.
Right now PS4 is only selling on multiplats and hype for games to come.
Literally all of PS4 ads are multiplats and games in development such as FFVIIR and Uncharted 4.
I don't get why hardcore Nintendo fans don't know or don't want to believe Nintendo isn't competing with Sony or Microsoft, Nintendo is a family console who see's themselves as toy makers Nintendo themselves have stated this more times then I can remember. This means Nintendo is going to do there own thing like thay have been doing, new ways to play over powerful hardware. If people think Nintendo going to release a hybrid portable/console as powerful if not more powerful than the PS4, then you cannot know Nintendo as well as you thought you did. Nintendo will want to make it's hardware which is profitable from day one which is also affordable for families, there selling point will be uniqueness in the way you play over powerful hardware. This time around isn't going to be as easy as last time as the PS3 & Xbox360 where almost at the end of there life cycles, almost 10 year old hardware. Not hard to make a more powerful hardware that is also affordable for families, yet Nintendo still sold its hardware (Wii U) at a small loss while still costing a pretty price for families. Also Nintendo has other problem's regarding software, sure it has it's own software with droughts in between but that's where 3rd party fills the gap. Also if I am not mistaken Nintendo stated themselves that thay underestimated HD development, and with more powerful hardware cost & resources for development have to come from somewhere.
Oh, this article.
Well, simply put, western third party support will NEVER happen. Period. There's no reason for the western third parties to support Nintendo's home console when there's no audience on said platform, and that audience won't buy the Nintendo home console because it doesn't have those games. It's a perpetual cycle that Nintendo will never be able to break.
Also, in the hypothetical situation in which Nintendo did get western 3rd party support, it is NOT an incentive for people to switch from Xbox and PlayStation. Those games are multiplats, meaning that they are on Xbox/PlayStation already. There's no reason for those people to switch for those games when they can get them on the platforms they already own. Therefore, it always boils back down to Nintendo's 1st party exclusives, which aren't enough.
3rd party exclusives? Those are deemed "anit-consumer" and would therefore only serve to piss people off.
NX isn't the plan of a company's glorious return to AAA gaming, it's that of a company attempting to find relevancy outside of the paradigm that Sony and Microsoft occupy. Nintendo simply CANNOT compete directly with Sony and Microsoft in the power race. They've been priced out of said market.
Now, Nintendo can no longer support two separate platforms at once, and they know that. It creates too many software droughts that they can't fill. This is why NX will be the multiple form factor ecosystem - an NX Handheld and an NX Console. Since they play the same games, Nintendo's 1st party production becomes much more efficient, as they're no long needing to make two Mario Karts, two Animal Crossings, etc.
Nintendo will also have the benefit of the Japanese third party support, especially what currently occupies their handheld, as well as Sony's handheld considering the Vita will likely be their last one, and of course indie support. Nintendo might also perhaps get some of the Japanese 3rd party games coming to the PS4 - DQXI, FFXV, FFVIIR, etc.
This will allow Nintendo to fix the software droughts as much as they possibly can.
All I want is 4 controllers, HD and a way to back up all of my games. I mean EVERYTHING.
@IceClimbers Some interesting points there Ice, this one stuck out to me:
"This is why NX will be the multiple form factor ecosystem - an NX Handheld and an NX Console."
Do you think it will be sold as one package/bundle or separate devices that interconnect ala Playstation and its portables? Then we get to pricing, which to me seems it would be expensive either way.
I'm very curious to what NX actually is though.
@dkxcalibur Uncharted, Gears and Forza aren't 3rd party games. The first is 1st party Sony and the other 2 are 1st party Microsoft.
@Mr_Zurkon Separate devices. I think they'd do a staggered release to cater to certain regions' tastes. Japan likes handhelds, the west likes consoles. So have the NX Handheld launch in Japan and the Console in the west in Holiday 2016, then in Spring 2017 have the Handheld launch in the west and (maybe) the Console in Japan.
While there's definitely some similarity to PS4/PS3 and Vita connectivity, the main difference is that instead of ports or Remote Play, the game would simply just play on either device, and would scale down for the handheld similar to PCs.
Of course, that means cartridges or some sort of flash cart will be used. Discs for a handheld obviously isn't gonna happen haha.
Of course, I have no proof that this is what NX will be, but I'd be shocked if it wasn't. As for where this theory comes from, it's based off of comments made by Iwata a year or so ago about Nintendo in the future. He basically talked about the multiple form factor ecosystem, and pointed towards iOS devices as inspiration for that. He also mentioned the idea of "correcting" the way in which they develop games, probably referring to making scale-able games and removing the redundancies.
@IceClimbers Right, I know it's all just an educated guess at this point. I like the concept and it would fit with the available tidbits we do have. I just can't help but think the pricing would be prohibitive even though it would solve/consolidate the platforms. I would love this setup myself though.
I, honestly, can't wait to see what the NX will be and what it will do...but as far as hype goes...I think nintendo already started it...it's on if they can keep it going after they unveil it. I hope it's powerful enough to get the same third party support as PS4 and XONE (though I doubt it) and I hope they have really good launch titles and not a large drought after the launch, before something else comes out (please, no more 2-3 games for launch and a year later, a good adventure platform game). Also, enough with having to buy the same games on the virtual console...the prices end up staying the same and they come out the same...add something new to the mix!
As long as nintendo makes a Mario adventure (like Mario Sunshine, Mario 64 or Mario Galaxy) I'll be in, and as long as the next smash, has a solo story quest (like the Wii, which turned out to be my favorite), and their other games turn out great and more enjoyable (meaning longer titles). Also, no more gimmicks...I'm tired of the gimmicks...I just like a nintendo console, where I can just sit down and play, not look like a lunatic swinging a remote control around the room...when I wake up and want to wake up, I want to play and drink my coffee...not knock my coffee cup around the room!!! Loved the Wii, but it wasn't my morning system!!! Loved the Gamecube, as my favorite nintendo system and would love for that kind of a controller to come back into play again (not just as an adaptor)
@Grumblevolcano Yes, I know. I'm not sure why I lumped those 3 with the other games. Regardless, I have the urge to play some of those games. I've decided to hold tight for now. I'm going to patiently await more details about the NX.
I think the NX will be something! nod Yes. Something.
@IceClimbers SD cards like or a home console acting as a docking station for the handheld, with a disc drive able to transfer the games on the handheld internal memory (and viceversa)
Still I can' t see any of these as a cheap solution for the users. I see it hard to convince customers to invest lot of money in such ecosystem. At least here in europe, where the market is heavily biased on home consoles...
Her's how a console loses sales (true story):
IN line at a game store waiting to buy an item and a woman in front of me is holding a Wii U console package with MK8. Good so far. She gets to the counter and asks for 2 other games she could not find on the shelf...deal breakers for her due to the kids' specific asks. Nintendo Land and Lego City Undercover.
The dutiful clerk does a full inventory check...nope. Then he looks into online options. Nope. So he looks at the Nintendo eShop. Nope for Nintendo Land.
Lost sale. Customer buys a PS4.
A limited library and inconstant delivery of content is crushing the system. Death by a thousand cuts. In the era of $0.99 apps universal these oversights are inexcusable. There should be zero scarcity for any game on this platform.
I would like to put forth a few ideas that put a twist on some of these points. I think that the NX doesn't necessarily need to be adopt the blue ocean strategy, but it needs to have a clear focus and target. The Wii U didn't have that and that's why it stumbled. I would also argue that Sony have managed to appeal to vocal minorities with certain titles and have still been able to do well, so appealing to everyone isn't always a smart or fruitful approach.
When it comes to third party games - it's about having third party games that are new and released at the same time as other platforms, otherwise there's not much point - releasing older third party games on the console would be a waste.
Most importantly, Nintendo's exclusives should focus equally on new IPs and ideas. In the same way that Gunpei Yokoi decide to embrace the ideas of a young designer called Shigeru Miyamoto, Nintendo need to give much more creative control to it's younger designers and new teams - the result is you get games like Splatoon and will find a new wave of game creators. At the moment, they put way too much stock in Miyamoto and other senior designers. You can't rely on old ideas for too long - you need new ones alongside them too.
As far as smartphone gaming goes, it's needs to be carefully handled. What a lot of the market boils down to is a lot of mush with no real depth or a real sense of achievement. Nintendo can do better than that and create smartphone games that offer something different, something with depth and a connection to the game that people feel deeply. If they decide to just tick all the psychological boxes like most of the market, it'll be a missed opportunity indeed.
Overall, I'm really optimistic about the NX and I have a feeling there'll be a whole host of surprises coming up. But if anything, I think Nintendo need to open up and re-invent themselves a little. We can only wait and see.
An even bigger challenge is approaching as rumours are pointing towards Microsoft releasing a new Xbox One model to compete with Apple TV in 2016.
@wiggleronacid What I would like Nintendo to do is make the NX more of a software platform than just a gaming platform. To do this, I think the best way is to adopt the razor and blade model of Android and Windows. Nintendo can make the own NX devices, but they can also licence the platform out to OEMs like LG and Samsung to use it for consoles, phones, tablets, and Smart TVs.
@TheMisterManGuy That's a really interesting idea. Nintendo could make their own models at different price points, much like the steam machines work. If they have a base model at, let's say, $200, then a lot of people might jump onto the bandwagon. The only real issue I see with this method is with the game development. It might be difficult to make games run on different machines with varying specifications. Regardless, it's a cool idea and one that I am not against.
@wiggleronacid For the hardware, Nintendo can have a hardware level system, such as level 1 for the lower end devices, and level 2 for the the higher end ones, and so on. Thus, simplifying the buying process, and making it easier for develop ers to scale their games.
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