It's time for Nintendo NX chatter again, but this time it's entirely reasonable and logical while still being relatively intriguing. On this occasion it's centred on the processor that power the system - rather than speculation on how powerful it'll be, this time analysis is focused on who'll provide the technology.
The myterious system still hasn't been officially unveiled and we don't have a solid Nintendo NX release date at the time of writing.
Nintendo has opted for PowerPC processors for three generations - GameCube, Wii and Wii U - with the current home console using that technology for a CPU alongside an AMD graphics chip for the GPU. Cutting through the terminology, this setup and its custom nature - supporting Wii backward compatibility - has made the Wii U an awkward proposition for developers compared to PS4 and Xbox One, which along with PC utilise x86 technology.
This x86 technology is widely adopted in the development industry and is a familiar PC-like approach, which has helped third-parties in producing ports and versions of their games for the Sony and Microsoft hardware. The Wii U is not only less powerful, but has an infrastructure that requires more custom development than multi-platform publishers would like.
Also of note with PS4 and Xbox One is that both of those systems utilise an "accelerated processing unit" (APU) chip provided by AMD, which combines a central processing unit (CPU) and graphics processing unit (GPU) together in one. This helps reduce cost and power consumption, so would naturally be appealing to Nintendo.
It's logical, then, that Nintendo could explore using an x86-based AMD solution - likely a combined APU chip -for the NX. Talk around this being a reality started with AMD chief financial officer Devinder Kumar alluding to AMD having a gaming related x86 chip in the works in December 2014; the timing pointed to Nintendo. Now, AMD chief executive Lisa Su has talked of the firm securing another custom chip contract, on this occasion saying it's for a project that could achieve a billion dollars in sales.
Nintendo, despite its previous adoption of PowerPC, has that aforementioned experience of working with AMD, so it's not a stretch that it'd shift to the APU combined chip approach. The only potential headache is that moving away from PowerPC would make backward compatibility tricky. Native emulation of Wii U and Wii would be practically impossible so would need software solutions, and we wouldn't rule out the possibility that backward compatibility options could be scaled back anyway. These features cost money to include, though it wouldn't be surprising if major Wii U titles - for example - would be candidates for release window-filling ports.
We'll find out in 2016, but working with AMD would certainly be a reasonable move for the NX.
[source venturebeat.com]
Comments 144
Right now, it doesn't matter what is in it. I am not going to buy day one or even start saving until they give me reason to and their word won't be enough.
AMD >>>>> Intel >>>>>> PowerPC
Haven't they said that the NX will not be replacing the Wii U. Much like they said the ds wasn't going to replace the gameboy. I do not want 2 systems of I can avoid it but if I have to keep my Wii U I guess I'll have no other choice. I'm strictly talking about backwards compatabily that is.
Couldn't Nintendo just do what Xbox One did with regards to backwards compatibility? So something like a major Wii U update which introduces stuff like a proper unified account system and cloud saves of which those can be transferred to NX. It would be much quicker to do too as Wii U has a minuscule library compared to Xbox 360.
There goes any hope of any handhelds.
AMD does ARM, but that's been an utter flop to them, since they aren't exactly...good.
The x86 vs Power PC is probably what cost Wii U 3rd party support. As much as power and sales are brought up....Wii U would still get the major multiplatform games if Wii U was the same as PC and the twins
@Grumblevolcano XBOX 360 emulation doesn't even work that well.
That is all I'll say on the matter, you'd probably have to drop it too if you don't have an equivalent for the GamePad, and if that goes out the window, say goodbye to your Wiimotes.
It's good news that they're going with AMD APUs this time. It's what every developer wants. They need to narrow the gap between their hardware and the competition's development process.
sounds good.
but we still have no idea what the NX really is^^
@TheWPCTraveler I thought the flaws were only a result of not being fully finished, that's the whole point of the preview program. You have the Xbox One updates early to be able to give feedback to make the experience better for when it properly launches. Xbox 360 backwards compatibility doesn't officially start until holiday 2015.
Whatever it'll be better be good. No more room for flops like wii/wiiu no matter how many they sold. I need a system that'll be preferred to xo and ps4.
@6ch6ris6 yeah thats the problem here, we have literally no idea what the device is and odds are we wont know till it's formal announced (or around e3 has they have to show stuff off to outsiders)
I doubt Nintendo will use x86 because a hybrid system design with the limited x86 architecture would be a rough engineering task and it would discourage developers from hybrid development ala Vita meets PS4. It will be ARM to appease the tablet/cell phone devs and create better hybrid integration. That being said I doubt they are using Intel, but I also doubt AMD. Hisilicon or Qualcomm is more likely. I would say Nvidia, but Nvidia doesn't have any interest in sharing the K1. You also have to remember that in order to sell th NX in China that have to meet the domestic production requirement and I doubt Foxconn has the ability to produce custom AMD technology.
And so the VC will start from scratch again.
@RedDevilAde Oh God, no!
I don't think many people will care about backwards compatibility, but the NX should at least support Smash, Kart, and Splatoon. The Wii U library is small.
Personally, I rarely use backwards compatibility. You can buy a Wii for $75 used and it will play last gen games for when you get the inkling. Backwards compatibility should be given up so the system has more power, attracts more third-party support and costs less. The Wii U had a very weak line up and Mr. Iwata knew that. Having Wii games available was important at launch. After E3, Reggie said the NX would have better launch titles and its a known fact Nintendo discussed and showed the NX to third party companies. I think they have learned the mistakes of the Wii U and the NX will be conceived in a different way. With all of that said, I love my Wii U and I wont be a day one NX customer. I will continue to buy Wii U games until the library of NX games is worthy of buying. I suffered through long release days on the Wii U; not soing that again!
I'm already doubtful I'll buy the NX at launch, but no backwards compatibility would seal the deal. We already know the NX is going to take a while to attain a strong software catalogue - it's a Nintendo console - so without Wii and Wii U game support the console is far less attractive to me.
You also have to remember that until there is a firm announcement from Nintendo it benefits AMD to create unfounded speculation about their prospective growth.
This would be great if it's true. Using x86 should help in getting more 3rd parties to bring their games to Wii U. Even though backwards compatibility will likely suffer, I think this move would be for the best in the long run.
I doubt nintendo have spent all this money and effort building up the eshop & Virtual console including Wii download titles, just to scrap it all in 2016. They've already confirmed the Wii U will be part of the unified framework. Which leaves the following options:
I hope it's the 2nd option
I feel like I'm in a very small minority but backwards compatibility with Wii and WiiU games is not important with nintys next home console. 3rd party and their own new first party games are.
I'm sure they will figure out how to get Wii and WiiU games to emulate on the 'NX' a year or two later as download, but right now? No, focus on your new system and games please.
Thank god, finally Nintendo.
AMD = Intel >>>>>>>> PowerPC, or even AMD > Intel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> PowerPC!
I think they are done with the Wii brand and backward compatility is unecessary - especially if a digital transfer option is available.
@Nintendofan83 I used backwards compatibility a lot with the Wii. I didn't so much with the Wii U and it was probably because i had to enter a whole other mode just to play it... sounds lazy I know but it still made a difference.
I would say I am a traditional gamer so I wasn't sold by the Wii. I opted for Xbox 360. However I bought a Wii U day 1 and have not looked back. I am appreciating what the Wii U does as well as what the Wii did (albeit at a ridiculously bargain cost now games are like 3 quid!). I really hope the NX is unrelated to Wii and offer something different as I love the console and don't think it is ready to be replaced yet. In 10 years I do wonder if gamers will be asking "..do you remember when motion control was a thing?"
@C-Olimar
just keep your wiiu for that reason. I personally couldn't give a damn if it'll support wiiu games since there's hardly anything I want to replay in the future
@RedDevilAde Nintendo needs to sort out their NNID accounts before the NX comes out. I'm telling you right now, I'm not doing a "system transfer" from my Wii U to the NX. I want my Virtual Console titles to travel with me... every other manufacturer has figured it out, it's time for Nintendo to step into the present.
inb4 Nintendo NX is a portable.
I was hoping for backwards compatibility so I can give my kids my Wii U. Looks like they are out of luck 😂
Still bothers me that they won't release an update that makes GameCube games playable on the Wii U. If they're not going to release cube titles on the eshop, I want to be able to play my current library without have to download home brew. Right now I need to have both my Wii an Wii u hooked up. Must be a way to save GameCube data to the internal memory.
@TheWPCTraveler Disagree, I've been playing Xbox 360 games on my Xbone aND they work great. Mass Effect actually sees some performance improvements.
@dMo They can't allow Gamecube games because the disc drive can't accept the little discs. The Wii had a special slot drive designed to accept both.
I just hope they launch with a genuine big hitter or something that instantly wows. MK8 would have been a great launch title.
The Wii U seems like the most wasted potential there's ever been in a console.
Soooo , is the NX gonna be as powerful as the PS4 orXbone ? Or a little less/more ?
@Megapokepaul hopefully more powerful. A 9th gen system needs to be more powerful than 8th gen. Period.
@Nintend0ro Having two consoles set up isn't ideal, especially as I already have a PS3 and Xbox 360, with a PS4 inevitable. There's limited space in my set up.
I'm more concerned about download titles anyway. All those titles available on the eShop would require new versions to run on the new hardware without backwards compatibility. Plus I'd have to pay for them again :/
I'm hoping for a 3DS-DSiWare style integration of the NX and Wii U eShops, whereby Wii U titles are available to download and play on NX, provided you own the necessary controllers.
I personally don't mind if the NX isn't backwards compatible. I already have a Wii U to play the older games on. I just hope they've got a LOT of VC games to release day 1, and that your previous purchases are transferred over. I'd say at this point, it's more important for Nintendo to have 3rd party support over backwards compatibility. Hopefully the Wiimotes will finally be laid to rest.
At this point, if they release NX soon, they're going to have to work pretty hard to convince me to buy one. The Wii U is still young!
Good to see Nintendo may finally have some forward thinking. If they bring over the 1st and 3rd party support like the wii u tried but never succeeded, the NX will he the next ps4. IF Nintendo markets it right and all that stuff
As a customer I'd more likely give up to retrocompatibility if that was the case for Nintendo to get closer to competitors, in terms of horsepower or just in terms of architecture... sure thing, an HD console with x86 would be even more filled with nindies (I say nothing about multiplatform cause we don't know the specs)
@Ralizah I agree, how does a proper 3d Mario, The next Zelda (canned on the Wii U), and Metroid Prime: Universe sound?
Really starting to wonder if it's not time for an industry standard for consoles. I can see more benefits than negatives.
The big three would be able to focus on actual innovations, instead of reinventing the wheel every few years. SAves them money, because they aren't trying to outdo each other's consoles. Publishers & Developers wouldn't have to worry about porting to different consoles, only optimizing for the OS and any accessories needed.
For consumers, it would open the potential to have a single console, but access to all three ecosystems. Choose between an XBox Gold, PS Plus, or NX subscription to utilize their OS and network. If you want, subscribe to more than one.
Be able to use the controller of your choice with the system of your choice (barring, of course, needed specialty accessories).
Provides impetus for the companies to finally enable cross-network play and/or purchases.
So much of tech talk......this is already deciding the fate of NX when the system itself isn't even launched yet.
What difference does it make whether it uses ARM or APU since they clearly stated that they always want to make their systems affordable while at the same time, make fun innovative games?
@JaniN83 Nvidia might not want to provide for them because they have their on console, Nvidia Shield. I don't know, just an assumption.
We'll Have to ask Mr Takeda, What is everybody's opinion on which AMD processor is the least powerful of all AMD's and which one costs less and will it be tailored to Nintendo's needs special order. That might be the processor that will go in the new NX as a cost saver.
I just hope I can transfer all my VC games to the NX. I'm not paying all my VC games again
@Spoony_Tech
God, don't even joke about that. The last thing the Wii U needs is to be the only Nintendo console without a real Zelda release. I just hope, if it does have a dual launch on NX and Wii U, that it isn't gimped on the latter.
Too bad another Metroid Prime is years away from happening, at best.
I'd actually be satisfied with another 2D Metroid, though. It'd be a great way to send off the 3DS.
@ikki5
They haven't even presented the NX yet, so there's no reason to go about judging this platform or console...whatever it is, I have mixed reactions about what I have heard too
I hope they realise that they just can't wait til next year to give more information. This whole "We're not mentioning it by mentioning all the time that we're not mentioning it" thing is a PR disaster and leads into what will be a super disappointing reveal. JUST TELL US WHAT YOU GOT!
@DinoFett if Nintendo picks the least powerful, it will be a disaster. Just like not having HD in the wii, it will get outdated and Nintendo will regret it
@Ninstarkof
You are correct, I'm guessing and asking if PC gamers are in this forum to give their insights. Also a higher power AMD will have a loud noisey fan.
@Monsti I doubt Nintendo really cares that much at all. They've never been the type of company to change their mind. So chances are, unless we get a huge leak or something, we won't know what the NX is until next year.
Ugh 2016 cannot come soon enough. I just want to know what's the NX going to have. And i mean how powerful it's going to be.
@Spoony_Tech but the DS did replace the Game Boy. It was the successor to the Game Boy
EDIT: yeah I know. Irony passed me by on that one. It's been a long week.
@Monsti Have to agree with you there.
@ottospooky My point was Nintendo came out saying it wasn't a replacement for the Gameboy line of systems. Just like they're saying it this time for the Wii U but I can't believe them this time.
Doesn't an AMD Arm based processor make more sense? As in the AMD Styx ?
@Spoony_Tech yeah, sorry, I edited my post right after I realised that's what you were saying. It truly has been a long week
@Grez
Absolutely especially if they plan on using Google Android OS.
Well one things for sure, the majority of people who purchase the NX will be Nintendo fans such as myself. That being said I want to be able to play my Wii U games on NX! I don't want to have to switch between two consoles. So backwards compatibility would be important for me. If Nintendos gonna cut the life span of the Wii U and hope the fans are gonna buy NX, the least they can do is let me play the games I already bought and get the most out of them 😑
@DinoFett
That's my thought process, though they say it won't be android. This could still be true if they go with Amazon Fire type OS.
@Hero-of-WiiU Um... yes their is. The last two and a half years tell me a lot of how Nintendo will probably handle the NX.
Being weaker than PS4 would be sad (being weaker than XBone would be worse), but if this is a TV console hopefully they can at least put out something more powerful than next year's Nvidia Shield with Tegra Parker. I wonder why AMD and Nintendo are expecting this thingamajig to net them tons of money. We'll find out next year...and this time I'll likely call BS on most of their claims. Not gonna be fooled by another 3DS or Wii U.
@Spoony_Tech
I can't shake the feeling that the ONLY reason why they vaguely implied that it won't be straight up successor is because they're hoping the Wii U will just fade from public memory by the time NX comes out.
I hope this is true. And it doesn't necessarily mean it won't do backwards compatibility. Could be done the way Xbox One is and use your ipad or Android tablet as the gamepad for games that use it.
But at the end of the day Nintendo would be opening the doors to third party developers properly with a system that is, hopefully easy to port for. Hell it may even become lead console if it's easy and powerful enough.
I already have a PS4 and today got the stupidly big Xbox One but I play Nintendo as my primary console of choice. In fact if Nintendo and Sony or Microsoft release games at the same time, it'll be Nintendo I buy day one and the others I'll wait for a price drop.
@C-Olimar
Then hope that NX is powerful enough to emulate Wii U.
I'm never selling my Wind Waker Wii U so I'm not bothered about backwards compatibility. What I am worried about is how long they're gonna support Wii U. Hopefully until at least 2017 or 18.
@AVahne That would be a shame for everyone that supported the U. I've spent quite a bit building up my digital&retail library on a system that hasn't been out very long. I'm certainly not ready to upgrade to a new Nintendo console anytime soon.
I'm mixed on the idea of no backwards compatibility. Having the Wii U's small but very good 1st party lineup available day 1 on NX would be a big boost since those games haven't had as wide of an audience as they deserve.
They could always go the "Remaster" route like Sony and MS are doing, but I don't think that is likely. Maybe backwards compatibility will be handled like how the Xbox One is doing it. Who knows, it's all speculation and rumor at this point anyway.
@whodatninja Hoping for continued support as well. I dont think we're going to get it though.
Not buying this. I dont care if it has realistic graphics with a fully fledged VR system.
The abandonment of the Wii U and VC was a ****y move. You are going to lose more customers Nintendo.
Interesting article. Too bad the comments section is largely polluted by off-topic discussion, entitlement and lack of empathy, manners and intelligence. Pathetic, really...
Back on topic: I do hope Nintendo goes x86. It will make the gap that much smaller, even with hardware that is less powerful than the competition, because between similar platforms everything is easily scalable so the differences will be small, same as with lighter and heavier gaming PC's so even if that rumor is true, it certainly doesn't have to spell doom.
With my average gaming PC I was still able to play the same games that my friends played, only with some lower/lesser settings, but other than that I could still join them online and share the experience with them.
The fact that it will also make development cheaper and faster might very well also do wonders in bringing third party support back, or at least part of it, if the E3 rumors of them being enthusiastic about the NX concept is true.
Emulation will also be a relatively small issue: if some hackers can come up with a little program called Dolphin that runs like a dream on your average gaming PC, then certainly something similar could be made for the NX if they indeed go x86. Same goes for VC.
@Superryanworld Same.
In regards to the case of backwards compatibility, the lack of this feature in the PS4 and Xbox One did serve as my reason to not get either system at launch. In fact, when my older brother moved out (taking his PS3 with him) it simply resulted in my purchase of a cheap PS3 rather than saving up for a PS4. I still lack a PS4, and it was only due to a great E3 2014 showcasing the likes of Sunset Overdrive and Ori and the Blind Forest that I ended up getting an Xbox One.
Further onto that point, the Wii U having backwards compatibility proved very helpful during my first year of purchasing it. As I waited for titles like Lego City Undercover and Wonderful 101 to release, I picked up Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword and played that until such releases. It also helps that I really like the Wii's library of games.
As for the NX itself, at this current time, I've no interest in getting one. Whether I get it at launch would all depend on when it comes out, if it is released in 2017, I'll buy it at launch, any earlier, then no. In the case of the NX being a 2016 release, while I'd be disappointed in Nintendo for not giving the Wii U a full 5 year focus, going without an NX for a good year would not be an inconvenience, as there would likely be many Wii U games I'd still be wanting to play. Heck, I got Bayonetta 1 & 2 for Christmas last year, and I've still yet to get around to playing them.
So yeah, it's 2015 now so the NX is not even something worth considering for myself at this point in time. Once it's actually revealed, and more-so, once 2016 passes, I'll then allow myself to be curious about what the NX offers.
I'd like to know what the NX is before I start rambling on about it.
Okay, I was assuming anyway that they will continue to work with AMD and that it could be an APU this time. So no surprises here.
That VentureBeat article must have been edited recently, because the last time I read it, the 3rd paragraph after the separator literally stated (and I quote).....
"Nintendo has already made the leap from IBM’s PowerPC to x86-based (AMD and Intel) architecture. That means that games written for Nintendo’s current Wii U console are x86 compatible. It would make sense for Nintendo to continue its relationship with AMD and continue to use x86 architecture in its next-generation design, which Nintendo announced would be called the NX."
Not a game dev but don't get why x86 of itself would matter. It's all about the tools. Guess backwards compatibility will be with virtualization. The thing about talk of the NX 'platform' is that I'm not used to platform meaning anything concrete anymore.
Iwata previously talked about iOS and android and iirc how 3ds and wiiu successors could benefit from a shared set of tools for how you'd write for their hardware/platform/whatever
I really doubt that Nintendo's next home console will be Backward's compatible. I dunno. I don't think it is a major issue now as it was before. Simply put, the PS4 is the best selling console at the moment and it doesn't offer BC either. Maybe wiiu ehops games will run on a custome emulator like the VC games..or maybe not at all.
Using x86 is the way to go. PowerPC = guaranteed no 3rd party support. Chances are they wouldn't do whatever Microsoft is doing to solve the backwards compatibility problem.
This also means that Nintendo may start doing the "remaster" thing (Wind Waker HD is a remake, not a remaster). Smash 4, Splatoon, Bayonetta 1+2, and perhaps even Mario Kart 8 and Xenoblade X are all prime candidates for remasters.
@wreckgar23 That might sound good on paper, but it isn't really all about the tools: it's a simple equation of time vs profit, and x86 architecture would allow for faster development trajectories and easy scaling of software since it's what most software companies develop on anyway, so there would be no need for porting, only minor optimizations.
The Wii U had most tools that matter, and can even run most engines to some extent, but seeing where it is now should make clear that it's not the most important thing to get the support you need as a gaming platform.
Power PC does offer a very versatile and solid development platform if you have the time (and money) to invest in it, and that is where things have gone down the drain with the Wii U. The time and effort third parties should have taken to optimize their titles towards the Wii U's architecture, coupled with the considerably smaller market share it has, will more often than not mean little return on investment, if any at all. And that poses a risk that most publishers and/or developers aren't willing to take anymore.
As for backwards compatibility: if they go with x86, then that will more than likely be done by emulation, not by virtualization, which is an entirely different thing.
@ikki5 the fact it's coming is reason enough. The NX stands to be awesome if nintendo have been learning from wii u for last 3 years, and it would appear they have
Don't care one ounce about circuitry, I'm just anxious to see what it looks like and what unique features it has.
It'll obviously be powerful enough to play Mario and that's all I need to know about processing. Not once have I ever thought about textures and shaders when in the zone of carefully lining up a ground pound on a walking Goomba stack. That's the Nintendo Difference :]
@Mr_Zurkon I'd say bin backwards compatibility and start from scratch at full pace. Have a third party make definitive edition wii u titles to bolster the first two years for the 100,000's of people who should have bought a wii u. And move nintendo hardware forward. Holding it back with powerpc just for backwards compatibility is backward thinking
@DESS-M-8 They said they learned from the 3DS... they didn't. So why should I believe they learned now?
@ikki5 They more than likely had learned from the 3DS's launch. Turning the 3DS around caused the Wii U's launch issues.
@ikki5 They did learn from 3DS. They totally turned that handheld around.
There is too much wrong behind the scenes for wii u to have been a success. Their whole infrastructure and developer ethos does not support modern gaming.
HOWEVER.
Lessons have clearly been learnt.
The fragmented membership/account system that wreaked of the 80's "collect points for tat" and download so your console owns it on a totally separate system needed binning.
Not only have they begun beginning it, they have literally invested MILLIONS to overhaul this entire aspect of their business. Once their infrastructure is fixed, then they can focus on delivery.
That system will be fixes this year and paves the way nicely for their new hardware to debut onto the nice new nintendo of the future
@IceClimbers @DESS-M-8
Well, until they actually show they learned from them, it means nothing to me. They've been saying they learned this, they admit this and yet, nothing improves. Some, even got worse. Fool me once, Shame on them, fool me twice, shame on me. They want me to continue to buy and support them? They need to show they changed and they need to show it well. Words mean nothing any more from Nintendo.
@DESS-M-8
This, 100%. Better to release a Wii U mini that to hobble the console out of the gate. And they would have to do that. The only way to adopt x86 and backward compatibility would be to have a streaming gaming service a-la PlayStation Now and Nintendo simply does not have the infrastructure to do that on any meaningful scale. I personally think that's why Wii U software development is virtually at a standstill.
Nice, hope it's tue! This is exactly what I said in another article. They need to go x86 based to make it easier to develop for, even if it means less potential for backwards compatibility.
@ikki5
Much as I hate to say it, I'm forced to agree. There have been far too many shenaningans with Nintendo this generation for me to commit sight unseen. And my willingness to buy the NX will predicated as much, if not more, on their account system/digital service overhaul as it will the console itself.
Oh no.
Even if power doesn't matter, AMD still sucks. I had the misfortune to use one for the last laptops I had....
A complete mess and they cant handle stuff good.
Intel is better.
@JohnGrey On a powerful enough x86 platform, emulation would be a much better solution. I don't think streaming is the only way to go at all, although Nintendo having partnered with DeNA might make streaming a possible option, but not likely since even if DeNA helps them to get a decent online presence, that still doesn't mean they will get such a service up and running within any realistic time frame that would coincide with the release of a new console/platform. And for that matter they'd better stay focused on NX itself and get that to a flying start to prevent them from repeating the situation they're currently in.
And additional services could always be added later if wanted/needed.
@Gridatttack for PC's/laptops I would wholeheartedly agree but in console chip set development, especially modifying and customizing chip sets, AMD is miles ahead of the competition and since the other two are also using AMD chip sets this should definitely not be seen as a bad thing.
Once again, we still know nothing concrete about the NX, yet people claim everything is a fact and how "they aren't going to buy it until they've seen it"....well duh. I wouldn't buy something either if I didn't see the thing.
Just quit commenting on all these rumor articles that "you're not going to buy it" because if you're here and commenting, obviously you're still interested. Otherwise, you'd ignore all of this and just sit tight until E3 next year when they ACTUALLY show it.
@MrGuinea It is more than just seeing it for a lot of people. They can show it off and say any things about it but it will also be how they handle it, support, and many other things along with it.
Let's wait until 2016 before we say anything final, but whatever NX turns out to be (Iwata mentioned it in the same breath as Wii U and 3DS, if memory serves).
Well next year AMD is releasing ZEN CPU, which will be the first time in long time where AMD will forget the "More cores = more performance", and will develop highly efficient and powerful CPUs, and a way to get back into the CPU game
Hopefully (but im not really holding my breath), the APU used by Nintendo its based on the ZEN technology (or at least Kavieri).
@Faruko AMD needs to do something big, they've fallen behind Intel and need to shake up the processor market. Hopefully that's it.
@Mr_Zurkon on the CPU front they indeed need something like this, hopefully this goes well
i seriously think APUs should be way more impactful in the market, they are indeed great once yu forget they arent designed for gaming
@MrGuinea I'd suspect that they'd reveal it before E3 so that E3 can be focused on games.
@rferrari24 They can't just choose which games to make BC, it is or it isn't BC. Unless it is several times more powerful than the Wii U which would cost a lot of $$$.
@Aromaiden True. You're probably right.
@abbyhitter AMD > Intel luvyduvying where? I can't even remember how long since AMD CPUs could hold up against Intel's... Probably before 2005?
Oh... perhaps you are talking price-wise, not performance-wise.
Backwards compatibility just adds cost to the system if they are moving away from Power PC architecture.
Unlike 99% of the people on this forum I do not want BC. I want Nintendo to keep their promise which is to "START FROM ZERO".
If they lose a couple million fanboys because of BC that's no big deal. Look to replace them with triple that amount of new owners.
Start from zero, a new beginning. This should be a new horizon for Nintendo and this is what excites me about NX if Nintendo delivers.
@sarkwalvein Intel CPU are better than AMD CPU, especialyl since the later has been rebranding and tunning their same old tech for years... but AMD does indeed have a great price/performance ratio.
a FX 8350 its pretty cheap for a quite decent 8core CPU for the "masses", core-per-core its nowhere near an Intel CPU but, in gaming, most CPUs are way way ahead of what you actually need and the FX-8350 for $160 more or less its a lot more than what you would actually need (i have an i5 4570, for the record),hell even the FX-6000 are decent. (again, always considering that AMD core speed its way lower than Intel core speed)
even some i3 (dual core) or the FX-4000 (Quad-core) are enough in some cases.
@sarkwalvein
PC's yes, intel is better, but we aren't talking about pcs. Name a gaming console that has used an Intel chip. Xbone and PS4 both use AMD.
@Grez Yes, but that doesn't mean they make better CPUs.
AMD just bring a better cost-effective solution for gaming consoles integrating a good enough CPU and a good enough GPU.
You would get better performance if you made your console architecture around Intel CPUs and NVidia GPUs, IMHO. But that would be expensive, and not really required for the mass market.
If you want top performance and don't mind spending a lot, you always could build your gaming PC.
For the mass market oriented consoles AMD solutions are probably optimal (regarding performance/price ratio and bringing not great but enough performance for gaming).
@Spoony_Tech ....and it did replace the gameboy. The third pillar approach may go on for a year or so but its just a gentle approach of interrupting the cycle. DS came out only three years after the gba but, by 2005 it was all about the DS.
@IceClimbers possibly, unless they go all out and the whole E3 is just about the NX, system and games. I just hope they don't announce all the games before E3 because that was why this E3 was so underwhelming.
@Nintend0ro "Flop" and "Wii" don't make sense in the same sentence together, since the Wii is one of the highest-selling systems of all time. Power has nothing to do with wether or not it was a flop; sales do.
@Nintend0ro "Flop" and "Wii" don't make sense in the same sentence together, since the Wii is one of the highest-selling systems of all time. Power has nothing to do with wether or not it was a flop; sales do.
@ikki5
To each his own. Though I recently traded in my Wii-U, since I just wasn't interested in the games right now, I will still consider buying an NX on day one if the price and features are right. The problem for me is that I strongly dislike the Wii-U GamePad and I fear that the NX will end up being a portable system (with screen) that connects to the TV either directly or via a Miracast-like dongle.
If that happens, I'll be just as disinterested. But I'm not going to make up my mind until I know much, much more. I also sold off my XB1 so performance and power aren't my primary concern. The NX has to be a fun, exciting idea and I dearly hope they greatly revamp their game purchase pipeline.
We'll know in less than a year.
If NX is meant to be a hybrid system, it needs to have 2 screens and 3d stereoscopic capability to have backward support for Wii U and 3DS.
That means it is a portable machine but can stream to TV as well. I bet it is a laptop with 2 screens, running on AMD with 8 gb ram, 512gb SSD. You can play games anywhere but at home, use the hdmi for TV connection.
@AirElephant Yeah, the gamepad was a disappointment as it was a console that was portable that wasn't really portable. You'd like leave the room and go 5-10 feet away and lose connection. But for me, it is how they are handling it. Over all, if it wasn't for Nintendo games and the amount of money I sunk into the Wii U, I would have sold this a long time ago. It just isn't overall worth it really. There are very few games for it's library that are really worth it. The support is garbage, the account is garbage... pretty much Nintendo paranoid about people doing anything. Their DRM is on par with what Microsoft was going to do if not worse. It is strange how people went all up in arms about that but hardly anyone bats an eye with Nintendo's horrible system. But really, they can announce the most powerful tech to ever exist and I just won't be interested until probably well after it's release and when I am able to see if Nintendo has really learned from their mistakes. I am not getting suckered into this again.
@ikki5 I'll be taking a wait and see approach as well. I've enjoyed my wii u, but would I jump head first into the same scenario with NX all over again. Probably not.
It's become so popular to gripe about Nintendos decisions. I'm a bit confused by all the hate for the Wii U. No it didn't catch quite on the way that the Wii did, but is it not a great system? The graphics are great(by any standards), there's a pile of great games for it. The gameplay is useful and well designed. I'm just as disappointed as the next guy that a few of my favorites aren't in the lineup for games, but the U has been my favorite system by far.
@dMo I don't hate the wii U. I value the system quite a bit. I've built up a nice collection of games that I could never part with. I hear comments from fan's talking about how they sold their Wii U console, and I think their nuts for doing it.
It certainly hasn't been all sunshine and rainbow's with Nintendo's current console though. I really wanted to see a retro collection on Wii U that would put psn classic's& retro games to shame. Aside from classic Nintendo systems I've yet to see any Dreamcast,Saturn, or arcade games. Not even systems available on the wii shope like the Mega drive have made the jump.
The online was a issue for me as well. No party chat. No unified account system. Massive slowdown in games like SSB is a real pain in neck too. And people complain Sony has weak servers.
Lack of third party support is another issue for me.I love Nintendo's excellent first party games, but as we've seen with 3ds&Wii U, the company can't support two systems on their own. Not to mention, If I could get a port of Tomb Raider on a Nintendo console that was up to the standards of their competitors, I would go with the Nintendo version every time.I want more games like Bayo 2 and W101. It just seems like third party relations are strained due to fan support and hardware differences, so I don't know how that issue can be resolved.
I've been a Nintendo fan for a long time. The company has always managed to keep me coming back for more. However, excellent first party games won't entice me to purchase the NX if the company goes down the same route they went with the Wii U.
I forgot who said it, but a commenter a while ago said, " I have a feeling the NX is not going to be what we're thinking at all." It's still too early to say, but that could be the case.
@TheRealThanos now I read a bit about emulation vs virtualization I can't see how it could be anything other than emulation. Thanks for pointing that out.
Speculation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@wreckgar23 You're welcome. At the moment it's obviously all just wild speculation, but it does seem the most viable option, Same as the possibility of the architecture being x86. If you want to know how good emulation could work in combination with that, try Dolphin on your PC. The options it offers are nothing short of amazing.
Make it powerful and convenient for 3rd party devs.
o.0 Xbox 360 was PPC, and was considered easy to develop for (due to DirectX). PS3 was also a derivative of PPC (CELL), but was not easy to develop for (Bad APIs, multi processor programming...)
Also, did you know none of the modern processors are actually x86? What people call x86 are AMD64 processors that have backwards compatibility to the old x86 architecture.
@bloodycelt True, but don't tell that to Intel...
I guess x86 has just become a common denominator for a "PC like" architecture, and as such it is used by the general audience and media.
AMD had a pretty crap financial result recently, but they're Intel-compatible so I guess it doesn't matter much if they're a losing company to hitch your console to. I'm hoping they'll achieve backwards-compatibility via emulation or including the old chipset (I think Sony did that with PS2?) on the board, but it doesn't matter what they're doing until they start announcing some details and given the Wii U's improved performance this year I can't see why they'd want to do that, fanboy demands notwithstanding.
From now until sometime next year, NX will remain a mystery. However, if Nintendo has really decided to allow AMD to supply their processors, then that would be great. The quicker and further they move from PowerPC, the better. It would demonstrate Nintendo's new willingness to active cater to third party developers and publishers.
And for those who think NX will be a singular platform that will replace both the Wii U and 3DS, it won't be. Nintendo made this very clear about a year ago.
Quote from Satoru Iwata (RIP):
"What we mean by integrating platforms is NOT integrating handhelds devices and home consoles to make only one machine. What we are aiming at is to integrate the architecture to form a common basis for software development so that we can make software assets more transferrable, and operating systems and their build-in applications more portable, regardless of form factor or performance of EACH platform."
Here is a quote that actually indicates what the NX may be:
"Nintendo won't face these issues going forward beyond the Wii U and 3DS, because the company's new unified approach will allow consoles and handhelds to become 'like brothers in a family of systems.'"
Here is yet more evidence NX won't be a singular hybrid device:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130/img/23l.jpg
I hope the NX is severely underpowered & gets as few games as possible. Day one baby!
Well that rumor that pop-up a few months ago that AMD will provide a new CPU/GPU. Plus they did mention 2016 is when a new console is going to be released and the one who's coming out is Nintendo. No one else other then Nintendo is going to release a console...Not unless a new Android console is coming out but by then they would of released it or announced it during E3.
@Ichiban Seriously..Are you even trying to troll?
@kereke12 Nope! Just keeping my expectations low, therefore there's a higher chance of being impressed!
@BLPs I hear ya! This is a industry that has gone through so many changes over the years.
I've been a big fan of fighters for awhile now, and I'm happy that games like Smash Bros, Mortal Kombat, Soul Calibur, and street fighter are still alive and kicking.
Fighters kinda died out after the end of the arcade era. I had to wonder if fighting games where dead for good. Then SF4 came along and helped to revive the genre. They may not sell like COD, but it's good that a demand for nich games like those still exist.
@Grez: The original Xbox (the first generation) had an Intel CPU (similar to Pentium III 733 MHz, if I remember correctly)
@RedDevilAde: yes, scratch the Gamecube/Wii/Wii U backward compatibility already. Time to move on.
Some of you make me laugh. Intel CPUs are way superior in efficiency and performance than AMD CPUs. Consoles have mainly built in AMD because it's a lot cheaper.
I'm not a developer, so I couldn't care less about what's in a console. But I hope that most engines will run on NX, so the greedy publishers have no excuses anymore.
@darth2d2 good point. x86 is power hungry and a handheld form factor would require massive batteries. Think clunky laptop batteries.
ARM would be ideally suited for a hybrid platform. I'm thinking a slimmer form factor gamepad with Pro controller support and hdmi output to HDTV for multiplayer. ARM processors are beginning to approach mobile x86 CPU in terms of cores and clock speed, and with 64-bit extensions and larger caches could become a formidable contender to x86, so I think in a couple years time they could compete directly with PS4/Xbone using an ARM solution.
The NX could come in a variety of form factors for portable/home models. The smaller screen will have a lower native resolution than HDTV and require less graphics acceleration when operating off batteries. The NX could be docked as a home console and would run at maximum horsepower when displaying HD visuals.
ARM is a popular platform and most development envoronments have extensions for x86 as well as ARM. Android/iOS would be easy to port so expect a good number of indie devs, but unfortunately this also means more crapware, so mobile architecture can be a double edged sword. The NX touchscreen as well as buttons would be suitable for both mobile and classic play styles. Backwards compatability with 2DS could also be achieved. The 2DS uses a single screen to emulate dual screens and the NX would be no different.
Sadly whether Nintendo chooses to side with ARM or x86, PowerPC is dead and so backwards compatability with Wii/Wii-U software would be impossible, although I would like to see Pro controller support. Another possibility Nintendo will create a Pro2 for NX with touch interface like PS4 has. Keeping PowerPC to maintain backwards compatability would be corporate suicide as support for it in the 2010s is non-existent.
There is a big difference between the wii and wii u. The wii ran on the bare hardware which meant game code had to optimized just for the PPC750.
So they were forced to re-use it to get 100% compatibility.
The wii u has an operating system that sits on top of the hardware, which means code doesn't need to be so finely tuned. Nano Assault Neo being ported to PS4 is a good example of this.
If the AMD APU rumor is true then it would be bad news for the fusion speculation. Because x86 can't compete with ARM for battery life in portable devices. Not unless AMD has enough technical wizardry to get maximum performance at minimal power usage that it could be feasible for a battery powered device. I suppose they could put solar panels on there so that energy from a light source compensates, which now that I think about it would be pretty cool.
@StarDust4Ever It is refreshing to have a real, well crafted reply. I would love the solution of having a portable with plug-in hdmi features. Native backwards compatibility is probably not part of NX, but Nintendo might use the PlayStation approach and create a cloud based VC program that allows players to use Nintendo points or codes to access classics. It was odd that they supported with the Wii U because they dropped Blu Ray with the explanation that consumers already had a Blu Ray player. Most Wii U owners own a Wii. Bundling Wii U with a Wii Mini to give consumers a Wii U, Wii, and Gamecube solution would have been interesting.
As for the NX I hope they use proprietary game storage solutions that are a little more revolutionary than the Wii U discs. There was a certain value in cartridge design that was lost with discs. I see the resurgence of cartridge design in thumb drives, and if there was a way for them to make the games for a portable become a part of the aesthic design of the system then the value of buying a limited edition run of a game would be more appealing to consumers.
I agree that the ease of development and publishing invites bad software onto the market. The quest for affordable and effective curation of digital marketplaces is definitely a valuable one. Ouya actually had done this quite well with their O-rank system. I am shocked Nintendo didn't buy them for their software alone. I am excited to see how NX will change the approach to games. Developers need a break from chasing the luxury numbers of FPS and Resolution to get back to fundamental game design. I think NX will attempt to provide that solution. I just don't see a game market surviving if they spend anymore resources on making the grain of the wood on a coffee table sharper and more dynamic, unless they raise the price of retail games.
@darth2d2 I have a strong suspicion that the NX and most 9th generation consoles will be mostly download or download only. Disc drives are expensive and wear out. With MS and Sony requiring mandatory installs, and flash storage on the brink of overtaking discs in capacity, I could see the NX not coming with a disc drive or using a modified 3DS cart slot for media. 3DS games have a tab on one side to prevent insertion on DS, so an added tab on the opposite side will prevent NX carts from being inserted in a 3DS. Disc drives are especially prone to breakage on portables and suck battery life. IF the NX is a portable, it will need to be downloads or cart based storage, so console version would also use this.
@darth2d2 Definitely won't be ARM - it will pretty much kill any serious 3rd party interest. Unless of course Nintendo go stock Android with a Nintendo skin - which I can't see happening.
@StarDust4Ever Surely all components - not just disk drives - have a life span? I haven't had a disk drive failure yet.
@liveswired If it's a hybrid portable, ARM is the only option.
Nobody made a 'bet my ARM' joke..
disappointed in you lot....
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