Games Consultant Believes Nintendo NX Could Be "The Defining Video Game Controller Of The Smart Device Age"

Saw this posted elsewhere last week. Nic Lovell's idea is rather farfetched but one can always dream.

Personally I was under the impression that NX was specifically and repeatedly described as a device in the dedicated game hardware space. A controller for smartphones is a very loose interpretation of that.

I've speculated before that the nx is not a new portable and not the nintendo bono, but could just be a controller for games on smart devices we already have.

There's some third party controllers available already, and they execute everything similarly. Making the nx a controller for in depth gaming on devices you already own is certainly a possibility.

I'm just excited to see where it'll all lead I'm buying the next nintendo gaming system anyways.

Wouldn't it have to have Android/iOS support to reach "a billion devices?" Fat chance of that...

Good lord I hope not. I just want a normal console that plays games, not constantly having to be online, and definitely no Smart Phone games...I hate the cell phone generation and wish it would end. Other than that, I hope it's just a new console system with more nintendo goodies.

Even it was just a [intelligent] guess on his part, I highly doubt it's just a "controller" of some sort. It won't just betray long time Nintendo system owners but they will also betray themselves and what they've built over the years. Iwata already stated that it will be a dedicated gaming platform to "reassure" loyal users that they're still in the hardware-software scene and not purely mobile. And those users are console/handheld players which IMHO will feel betrayed if this guess would actually become reality. They also stated that their QOL is another, separate business pillar for them and not necessarily relates to their dedicated gaming business, only the "know-hows".

With all the negativity surrounding Wii U (despite the wonderful line-up they have this year and the next), l doubt they'll just dive into unknown territory that they very well know would just add fuel to the fire. They can't afford to screw up 2 generations in a row.

I 'd agree with him if Nintendo hadn't all ready CONFIRMED the NX as a "Dedicated Games System"

I don't believe it'll be anything like that. Nintendo announced the NX at the same time as their partnership to assure everyone that they are not leaving the dedicated console market. This glove idea is essentially the opposite to that.

I'm not saying Nintendo wouldnt launch something glove idea, even if it does sound farfetched, but it would be something marketed totally separate to the NX.

What a bunch of gobbledygook.
A controller and a console will do nicely, people don't want all that unnecessary crap. Look at the PS4 as a good example

Interesting.

Hmm, that is something I just would not buy even if Nintendo did make something along the lines of this.but he is just thinking out loud, and there is nothing wrong with speculation tbf.

But iwata did say the NX is a dedicated gaming system so it'll either be a home or handheld console, or both, or neither and be something completely different.

We never wanted motion controls or other strange gimmicks like tablet controllers (although I love off-tv and remote play). Just a good console, friendly to developers with strong hardware. PS4 recently proved that.

"Person of reputable sounding job title predicts X."
Oh I wonder how reliable this will be.

Almost everyone presumes that NX is a successor to Wii U or 3DS, and I think that they're wrong. it could be something that has its own category.

@Ronoh
I agree with you 100%. Iwata described the Nx as Nintendo is not abandoning the console games business for mobile games and went further to stress that they are committed to their traditional business. They only announced NX to prevent people from thinking they were abandoning consoles and look what happens.

I wish that instead of making a new console, Nintendo would keep making games for Wii U. I love the Wii U and it is sad that they are already giving up on it...

@Pichupr0ject I don't think Nintendo are giving up on the Wii U. The NX is only being revealed next year, which means most likely a 2017 release which puts the Wii U life cycle at 5 years, the minimum Nintendo aims for.

Wow, somebody on the Internet that is speaking positively about Nintendo. Cats and Dogs living together.
On a serious note, nothing can really be said yet, as Nintendo hasn't even released any information about the NX, except that it's Hardware of some kind. Right now, whatever me, you or anybody else that isn't working at Nintendo can do, is speculate. I do hope that it is a crossover between Home Consoles and Handhelds, but the question is, How will it work if you want to use the handheld aspect, away from the console? Once again, it would just be speculation...

So a power glove with a couple of vitality sensors strapped to the fingers?

I think the sleep sensor is part of Nintendo's blue ocean strategy and has tie-ins with Nintendo's new online network. like @Azooooz I think the NX will launch like the DS as a new pillar. If its a success it will cannibalize the 3Ds audience like DS did to Gameboy. It will also lay the foundation for the next home console with compatible software like iOS (this much we already know). Since the 3ds is based on old architecture, the new systems will be based of the Wii U OS software going forwards in which case zelda will be compatible on WiiU and NX (handheld and console).

@Pichupr0ject But they ARE still making games for the Wii U. The Wii U isn't going anywhere, anytime soon. Remember, the NX is only going to be SHOWN OFF next year and most likely won't be out until 2017. Most Nintendo Home Consoles, have a lifecycle of 5 years, so it's actually standard. Also, whena company releases a New Console or Handheld, they always get started on designs for the next Console/Handheld, so this is nothing new. Again, they aren't abandoning the Wii U.

@Ronoh
It could still be a dedicated gaming console with a smartphone OS (Android or iOS) inside or along side its own Nintendo OS.

Basically this is why even at the low points, I always have some faith in Nintendo. They don't so much as dance to their own beat as in go out exploring on their own even after others have found something good.

One thing I've learnt over time is that technically a large proportion of the potential market doesn't even know what it wants until it's presented to them. People will say "consoles with regular controllers" simply because they believe it's what they and the "market" in their view wants. But sometimes other products have occupied that segment of the market and merely chasing it would reap limited rewards or people will say they already have that, so why bother?

The truth is, most of us are "morons" who really don't understand the technology, the potential or even what it is that will fulfil our desires. We say we want a specific product when in reality we just want to be entertained through an interactive medium. There are many ways that desire could be fulfilled and whilst there may be some existing ideas, there could be previously unimagined ideas that could do the job even better. They just need the chance to search for it. I didn't think I'd want to play games like Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3 and Pandora's tower with motion controls until after I played it on the Wii. Now I would never dream of it. So as I said, rather bluntly, we are really all too stupid to know exactly what is needed (and those who say they know exactly what they want and that their idea is the right one are either blind, selfish or imbeciles).

History is filled with those who dream & search yet are constantly ridiculed. Even with its flaws, I see Ninty in the same way. My only hope is that it finds that which it is searching for and it turns out to have the potential it seeks.

POWER GLOVE RETURNS

...NOPE. Nintendo has already said that it would be a "dedicated games system", not a controller for smart devices.

@FX102A While this us certainly partly true, the Wii being an example of how people will buy something different through the use of motion controls, I will also argue that Sony attempted something different with the PS4 controller and for the most part, the touch pad has been ignored except for being a replacement "select" button. I think the "hardcore" gamer will always go with what they know and have over something different unless they're offered a real good reason.

@Ichiban PS4 is an example of what good PR vs poor PR nothing more.
Microsoft's "message" about the Xbox Ones online requirement couldn't of been worse. Instead of talking about instant (you didn't have to okay each game) and complete sharing of you entire game library with 10 friends. they decided repeatedly focused on no trade ins or physical lending (which would be pointless with the above family system) effectively turning their headline "instant unlimited sharing" into the small print and small print "daily sign ins, no physical trading to the headline. Sony capitalised on that by attacking MS's new "headline" instead of giving their own .

As machines both are underwhelming being a little more than beefed up versions of their old systems. The 360/PS3 pushed HD into our homes, HD films followed as did TV programing. The PS4/X1 should've been pushing 4K into our homes. The specs of the two machines aren't a giant leap apart for example BF:Hardline knocked both systems down a peg

"For the NX's controller, we're following the Smart Device future and abolishing buttons entirely! You will just have a couple of handles and virtual buttons that show up on a touch screen!"

@BaffleBlend a lot of people are saying that but Miyamoto said in the past he won't work for/on a system without physical buttons.

before mobile gaming had taken of an effectively proven virtual buttons just don't work well enough, i thought the Wii (before Wii mote was announced) would of had 2 analog sticks, a D-Pad, a home button and 4 shoulder buttons/triggers but the rest would be a touch screen and every game would load up it's own layout/number of virtual buttons E.G. New Mario Bros would have a NES style 2 button layout where as Smash would have the Gamecube layout

Nintendo-Life stating:
"Lovell's guess - and we should point out that this is just a guess at the moment - is that Nintendo NX is a controller for smart devices, rather than a fully-fledged console"

From the actual quote:
"The NX device will be a relatively low-powered box that sits under the television screen in the living room. It will interface with the controller..."

Pretty much an inaccurate summary of the quote.

i just had this idea as many have suggested what if it is a mix of both home console and handheld? like a handheld that docks into part of the console to load the game data you were playing while away from home and now you got home and ready to play on your tv with a normal controller?

anyway i think the mystery of all this is just getting everyone thinking till they give us more info as this could either go good or really bad for them

I can already see there's going to be shed tonne of speculation articles on what "analysts" and "games consultants" think the NX may or may not be between now and the reveal.

However I also see a lot of "rumoured leaks" over the coming months from various sources close by, mainly being hardware related. It'll be interesting to see whether Nintendo are forced to bring forward the planned reveal like they did with the 3DS if this happens.

So it begins again.. Nintendo revolutionizing the video game industry

Sounds like a marriage of the Wii and Vita TV.

@DarkNinja9 It is the current theory that the New 3DS is to delay the "need" for a new handheld by 2 years which is when the Wii U will be replaced. The NX reveal in 2016 with a launch in 2017 syncs up with.

Nintendo has had trouble keeping two systems supported with games by them selves and half 3rd party support (no Wii U help) an united platofrm would help that no end but what that platform looks like has 3 very different looks

option one is like the PS3 and Vita where the two devices are close but not the same with games getting releases on both devices with cross buy.
Option 2. The NX is a handheld that also works with a TV and separate controllers
Option 3 is far grander. You'd have the handheld that works by it self and runs games by itself and bought alone but can also an "booster" will be available. The booster will act as a dock like option 2 but will augment the handheld with additional specs allowing it run more demanding games and graphical games but the won't work by itself and would require it to Physically attach to the Booster much like the N64 expansion pack. (this option is unlikely due to the cost of development and wouldn't help the "supporting 2 systems with games" unless they program them to be scalable like Pc games)

"- Nintendo targets empty markets that no-one owns"

Not true, they targeted hardcore market with the Wii U and failed. Then they went back to the casual market which is already targeted by smart devices.

I'd love to see a Wii U gamepad/3DS hybrid.

If that is what Nintendo is planning, I will abandon ship.

More Blue Ocean crap. Oh goody. That gave them a temporary high, a lot of quick money, and then quickly plummeted in popularity and led to the failing Wii U and their first ever years of losses.

Nintendo running away from competitors isn't the solution. It doesn't make them a better company. All it did with the Wii was give them a reason to spend as little money as possible on software development with their terrible casual and shovelware titles with crap like Wii Play.

It would be cool if it is something similar to what is written.

From a financial standpoint, this is obviously going to be a success. But from a quality standpoint, this can't end well. If there's one thing that is obvious, then it's that the mobile market is the very embodiment of "quantity over quality", so basically the polar opposite of Nintendo. But by getting in on this market, they basically allow a massive demographic to dictate their output speed on the development end, unless they want to just face the wrath of millions of people who live for their social outlets and keep going, which won't work since reputation is everything on mobiles.

No matter how you look at it, the mobile market has caused nothing beneficial for dedicated gaming, and trying to force it won't change anything. As I stated before, it will merely force separate communities together who don't wanna be in the same boat, and it's bound to end in ridiculous flame-wars of unprecedented range.

I am also not buying into this odd smart-device nonsense. While I'm always interested in how we'll move forward technologically, let's face facts--part of what this guy describes already exists with Smart TVs and Kinect--and Kinect 2.0 bombed so hard that MS is pretty clearly phasing it out. A wearable device to interact with electronics, huh? Sounds like wearable Kinect--a cumbersome way to interact with electronics that is inferior to pushing a damn button on a controller/remote or touching a screen.

Sorry, but this goes against Nintendo's own description of NX as a dedicated game platform, and if they're going the "invent another moronic controller" route, we can already predict how that will go: Brief consumer interest, poor overall use, implementation, or functionality, and ultimately consumer abandonment when the device is seen as a fad or a failure.

Nintendo was a better company when they were willing to be tough and competitive. This crap is not making them a stronger company--it's making them less focused and making them look like they don't understand the tech or gaming worlds.

I am really not looking forward to the next asinine way Nintendo attempts to shoe-horn awkward technology into classic game franchises. While bad Wii Remote use and pointer controls were at the bottom of the list of problems with Other M, it was still a part of that list.

is this guy smoking peyote? The return of a power glove type controller? Little rings that you wear on your fingers?

@Quorthon usually you have decent stuff to say in these articles, but your comment here about the Wii is just false. Wii revolutionized the game, no pun intended.

Nintendo just sat on their laurels with its success and thought they were done. Hence, the Wii U.

That's an interesting idea. To the people dismissing it because it's not a console, I would argue that a unique peripheral which is supported by Nintendo software (along with the possibility of a licensed API for third party support) would still fit the definition of "dedicated games platform." Nintendo would still control the interface via their own hardware for games sold on someone else's platform.

I would agree it's unlikely, but it's not impossible. Nintendo would certainly have the brand power to pull it off unlike an indepdent studio. It certainly couldn't be any worse than the majority of gamepads for mobile devices which are generally poor build quality and overpriced.

Let's look at the history:

Game & Watch - Innovative, mass market and very affordable: Success
Game Boy - Killer IP (Tetris), Innovative, mass market and very affordable: Massive success
NES - Killer IP (Super Mario Bros) Innovative, mass market and very affordable: Success
SNES - No killer IP, Not as innovative, but still mass market and affordable: Moderate success
N64 - Killer IP (Super Mario 64, Goldeneye), innovative, not mass market (difficult to program for, remember Nintendo's 'dream team'?) , definitely not affordable (until later when Nintendo slashed prices): weak sales
Gamecube - No killer IP, not innovative, incredibly mass market, very affordable: dismal failure
DS - Killer IP (Brain training), innovative, incredibly mass market, eventually affordable: huge success
Wii - Killer IP (Wii Sports), innovative, incredibly mass market, affordable: huge success
Wii U - No killer IP, not innovative enough, 'core gamer' orientated, not affordable: dismal failure

Have we learned anything?

If this is true (i hope is not!) then Nintendo did you not learn your lesson?Do you need new blood running this company? I don't care if i piss of anyone,Iwata needs to go.Get someone who knows what he's doing for gods sake!I don't want to see this company go down the drain just cause a ceo is playing grab ass with himself. But what am is saying,Nintendo don't care or it's fans as well.There still going to buy either way.

That's a little far fetched, but I think he is on the right track with his thought process. I don't think that that is what the NX will be like, but I have no doubt it will be revolutionary.
@LavaTwilight It should also be argued that he was shoehorning in the QoL platform as well. He seems to think that all of these projects are going to materialize as a single entity, which is almost definitely not the case.

@tysonfury I think there's one additional variable on this one—the nature of the marketplace. The market is fragmented in many ways, and whichever device format they go with, the market for it will, in all likelihood, be smaller than it would have been even a decade ago. There's a lot of noise out there now.

@FragRed You do speak the truth, "hardcore" gamers who have gamed for many years will have their comfort zones and the mainstream hardcore crowd in particularly will remain in them (those that basically live of the yearly iterations of annual franchises).

As for Sony and the PS4's touchpad, I saw it as a more conservative and safe form of innovation, a small new feature within a tried and tested controller. The PS4 has several new features but I don't consider it a large departure from the norm. The remote play by a friend is its biggest new feature in my eyes but I hardly consider it groundbreaking or even worthwhile. Kind of like deciding to take the bus somewhere instead of driving yourself.

@tysonfury

If anything, from the list you've shown, there is no pattern at all to what makes a Nintendo console a success.

This article could have been titled, "'Analyst' with no more information than you or me engages in wild speculation."

@FX102A

I think it's kind of funny that you mention "hardcore gamer comfort zones" on a Nintendo-centric site. Nintendo fans and fanboys are the epitome of the little kid clutching a security blanket. Give them a new Mario, Zelda, or Pokemon, and it doesn't matter what else happens, they just want their security blanket. That remakes and ports are such a bigger deal on Nintendo consoles than any other hardware (remember, we recently saw 3 Zelda remakes released to retail in 4 years) is also indicative of this. What is one thing Nintendo fans constantly want improved? The Virtual Console, so they can keep playing the same old games again and again and again.

What is one of the most commonly begged for games? Another Super Metroid. Not, a "bold new Metroid," another Super Metroid.

Yes, gamers need to be more willing to crawl out from under their security blankets. Nintendo gamers most of all, and I say most of all because their buying habits are a variable in the equation where Nintendo loses money and 3rd party support.

Look, innovation is great and all, but there needs to be a cool-down time between major innovations. A period where we get used to the innovation and it becomes routine. Nintendo didn't wait for that and it screwed them.

Every other generation in history has seen this pattern. One generation with innovation and daring new concepts, then a generation of perfection or abandonment of those core ideas. Note: I'm using the word perfection loosely to indicate an overall improvement and full understanding of the previous concepts.

Odyssey/Pong: Innovation. 2600/Odyssey2/Intellivision/Colecovision: Perfection.
NES: Innovation. Genesis/SNES: Perfection.
PS1/Saturn/N64: Innovation. PS2, GC, XB: Perfection.
Wii/X360/PS3: Innovation.

Logically, this should be the "perfection generation" where ideas that worked are properly evolved and understood, and ideas that didn't are scrapped. Nintendo, going their own way, tried to quickly dump another "innovation" console and it flopped big time. Sony properly evolved, and they are going to own this generation. MS stumbled, and didn't realize that they needed to drop what didn't work, for some reason assuming it worked, but they're now on-track.

@Quorthon

haha! Well fair enough. My point was supposed to be:
Killer IP, innovative, mass market appeal and affordable for consumer and devloper is the proven key to success

@Quorthon It comes down to the revolution/evolution paradigm. I remember Reggie mentioning it in the Wii era to explain its working title 'nintendo revolution'
NES -> SNES
N64 -> Gamecube
Wii -> Wii U

The evolution has never sold as well as the revolution. It follows that NX will be something new. NX for 'next'.

@gatorboi352

Wii was a fad, a gimmick. It did not revolutionize. The N64 analog stick revolutionized as it permanently changed the way we play games. The ideas of the Wii were largely scrapped by the end of the generation when the Wii was left in the dust as the X360 and PS3 screamed forward with their sales. To be fair, I was adamant for a long time that it wasn't "just a gimmick," but I had to admit that it was. Poorly implemented, limited use, and no staying or evolutionary power. I'd be more likely to not consider it a fad if Nintendo had just improved it for the Wii U, but they tried to invent something else instead.

The Wii inspired some other gimmicks and concepts--Move and Kinect being the obvious ones. But none of these, including the Wii Remote were long-lasting concepts that really survived their generation. It was not a revolution.

On the other hand, things Microsoft did have been revolutionary and seen wide-reaching adoption. Look up how many game controllers for mobile and phones not only look like X360 controllers, but also copy the labeling, stick layout, and even button colors. The X360 controller has been so widely influential that even Nintendo's Pro Controller for the Wii U largely clones it, except for stick layout (and it maintains the SNES-era button labels). Microsoft also set the standard for Achievements--later adopted by Sony and Valve--and modern user accounts on consoles.

These concepts from the Xbox 360, while seemingly minor, have been far more revolutionary. They have not only survived the generational transition but they have also been improved and expanded upon this generation, and become industry norms. Those are much more revolutionary concepts to anything the Wii did. The only thing remaining from the Wii is the Wii Remote due to it being usable with some Wii U games, but it had no wider industry impact.

@Danrenfroe2016 Actually that's not so absurd, there is a crowdfunded project named "fin", which is exactly that and it sounds great!

@tysonfury

No, the evolution has never sold as well, which is interesting. When Nintendo has innovated, it seems others have learned of their innovation, and then adopted it to a manner in which Nintendo was not able to compete. But the company has made a lot of mistakes and missteps over the years concerning their hardware. The exact opposite appears to be true of Sony, whose "evolutionary" consoles seem to sell well better than the "revolutionary" machines--except for the portables.

I can't help but wonder if the NX being too different will end up screwing it over as well, launching in the middle of a generation where people still aren't ready. Current sales have indicated that people are more than happy to support the more familiar and relatable PS4 and XBO.

@Quorthon I would agree that motion controls ended up being a gimmick that didn't last. I would say the true revolution was tapping into a whole generation of non-gamers like granny and mom. In that respect I would say there has been a legacy, I know plenty of people in their 30s who bought a Wii as their first console in 20 years then graduated up to a PS4 last year

Besides, ultimately don't all revolutions fail?

@Quorthon There is a difference between a game with similar names and a game that plays practically the same and is released every calendar year. Using Mario as an example, I consider all his 3D adventures (excluding the one remake on the 3DS and only direct sequel on the Wii) as unique experiences in their own ways. A game like Super Metroid? Well yeah I'd love that, seeing as it's been nearly a decade since the last one (Zero Mission) rather than 6 months I hardly see that as a bad thing. At the end of the day, I couldn't care less about the outer layers as long as the internal mechanics see some change; especially if I've seen the same thing again and again. Of course Nintendo aren't innocent there too. They did overuse the 2D Mario games for a while and thankfully after SMBU, they seem to have put it aside (even though that one was one of their best).

To say Sony "evolved" I honestly feel is laughable. I see it more as a refinement, which is practically why I've yet to buy a PS4. There is practically nothing that hasn't been done before that's unique to the console, it's just been refined. If that's what you want then cool, they've identified what the market they are aiming for wants and have succeeded in grabbing it. If Nintendo wants to seek out another market then that's okay in my books too. It's risky, but frankly I've always held greater respect for those that take the risks and seek out new products.

I will make 1 admission, as much as I like he Wii U and its Gamepad, I saw it as kind of a filler console. Basically the Wii was faltering, Nintendo needed a new console, saw Tablets were the thing at the time so boom, tablet based home console (we'll sort of). I knew it wasn't gonna sell but at least it provided something different and I'm glad it existed.

Its a console not a controller

@FX102A

Refined is a good word. And this was the generation for a refinement of what we had last generation. I really enjoy my PS4--I haven't been this eager to power on a game system since... I don't know. I don't think I even found my X360 or Wii this exciting when I first got them.

I have long viewed Sony as taking safe routes moving forward--not too eager to rattle cages or reinvent the wheel, just to deliver quality hardware that developers and consumers alike can get behind. It's admirable on it's own, but not exactly daring.

I think Nintendo sees themselves as more important than they are, and they believe that they are under pressure to be constantly reinventing crap that wasn't broken to begin with, which leads to a whole host of other problems and it's just stressful at times to be a fan of the company as so many of their ideas are just so, so stupid.

The PS4 is what I wanted. A stable, solid, smooth evolution or refinement of what we had last generation so that I can continue to play a wide variety of great games. I was hoping the Wii U would be this, but it wasn't.

Yeah, I can see Nintendo viewing it as a stop-gap, a filler console. Hell, given the relatively lazy way they've promoted it and the even lazier way they supported it, I'd say this supports your idea. Whether this is actually the case, no doubt, Nintendo would never admit. But it hasn't worked out for them.

@tysonfury

I don't think all revolutions fail, but I think the bigger breakthrough to the grannies and so forth in gaming came from places like Facebook and the King Games line-up of mobile games. That's where all the casuals are now. There are two kinds of casual gamers, I think. Those that care only about major franchise titles--Call of Duty and Madden and 2K sports games and GTA first and foremost, and a wider casual audience, that will play games, but not if they have to buy expensive hardware.

The Wii briefly appealed to them, but then they discovered mobile games and Facebook games and once that hardware hurdle was done away with (yes, mobile games require hardware, but it's hardware they'll already have for other uses--it's not dedicated for gaming), they walked away. Nintendo was wrong to assume these people would still be around for the Wii U.

Look, I loved the Wii. And I loved the Wii U.... But please just give us a regular controller already Nintendo! Give us an equivilant to the GameCube, or N64 controller! Quite frankly, I'm tired of motion control. That's what the Wii and Wii U are for!

Absolutely nothing wrong with motion controllers, like I said, I really loved the Wii U and Wii, and felt that they pulled it off really well.... But I really just want a new system.

Although, let's be honest, I'll be buying the NX regardless of how it controls.

@BaffleBlend

Oh for the love of God and all that is good in this world.... Please don't make the NX a smart phone device!

If this new NX is an add on for Smart phones, I will be so freaking mad! Nintendo is SOOOOOOOOOOOO much better than to do something like that. Most mobile games are cute. Some are even mildly entertaining, but I have yet to play a mobile game that was truly fun!

Besides, a decent smart phone could set you back 400+ dollars easily, and I have no desire to buy one for myself. I have a tablet and a slide phone, and that is it.

I really hope Nintendo teaming up with DeNA wasn't a suicidal move.

I don't get the criticism leveled at Nintendo regarding remakes. Zelda was remade/remastered in order to reach fans who never played them before and would not be able to unless you were really into retro gaming.

I never had a Game Cube and would never have played Wind Waker which has become my favorite Zelda title.

@BinaryFragger

Couldn't have said it better myself. Nintendo fans do not want "new." They want the same thing over and over.

Hell, I was told by friends of mine (over at GameInformer) that the Zelda Informer site was pissing them off because it suddenly had a poll about "which Zelda to remake next?" And these were Zelda fans annoyed by this. But they are clearly in some kind of minority who want "new games" instead of "being sold the same games over and over again."

I don't ever want to see another 2D Metroid. They've clearly reached their limits of creativity in that regard. But Nintendo fans won't shut up about it. Make Super Metroid again and again and again, despite the obvious note that they did that already with Fusion, Zero Mission, and Other M--all of these reused items, designs, weapons, enemies, and flow from Super Metroid. They were all effectively Super Metroid remakes.

@FX102A

Dang, well said man!

@Tazcat2011

If you had a Wii, you could have very easily played Wind Waker. It's not like the game is hard to find. Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask were also already available on the GameCube, Wii, and Wii U--but Nintendo still had to do remakes because Nintendo fans would rather pay full price for 15-year-old games than buy something new.

@Quorthon They were new to me, (WW & MJ anyway) I appreciate the changes made in the re-releases/remasters so it made it worthwhile to me to buy them and I'm assuming the millions of other people as well.

@Quorthon I think the endless IP argument is not limited to Nintendo fans. Just look at the endless FIFAs, GTAs and Assassins Creeds. I love those franchises, as well as the Zelda and metroid ones. In reality, gamers want new experiences, in a familiar control environment. Nobody likes the idea of taking time to learn a new game, they want to pick it up immediately. I think that's why franchises and IPs will always be popular. Most game designers know this, and in this respect Rockstar are no different from Nintendo who are no different from Ubisoft!

If only we know what the heck this is... Is it a console or a handheld or..... other!

@abe_hikura I like the idea of a booster, I can really see this fitting in with the unified development framework they've been talking about, and making Nintendo games scalable like PC games - if they can make them somehow x86 scalable then third parties would love it

My guess is NX is some kind of untethered tablet that doubles as a gamepad. Wii U will hang around for a few more years, after that all the hardware and software will be minor upgrades the same way Apple does or Nintendo has been doing with the DS range

What's more, and most excitingly imo, I think nintendo's push to get DS and Wii onto the eshop means whatever NX is or whatever follows Wii U, eventually we'll be able to play every Nintendo game on every system

@tysonfury Good point and it's not just limited to video games. Bond and Sherlock Holmes are a prime example of that for movies and books.

@tysonfury

Oh I agree, its not just a Nintendo fan problem, and at the same time, annual or yearly game releases are not just a problem "outside of Nintendo." Nintendo releases 3~6 games per year, every year with Mario slapped on the cover. That's way worse than what MS does with, say, Halo.

Nintendo works quite deliberately to have a Zelda game sold at full price/retail every year, regardless platform or originality. While there has only been "two full original Zelda games" on the Wii, Nintendo ensured Zelda had a retail presence every year over that generation across either system.

Since 1998, there have only been about 3 years without some physical/retail Zelda title to draw fan attention. It's pretty obvious that this is a dedicated goal from Nintendo. Be it the OoT remake, Skyward Sword, Hyrule Warriors, A Link Between Worlds, or Link's Shooting Gallery--every year, something "new" of Zelda at retail. And one can hardly blame them. Nintendo fans were quick to snatch up the Majora's Mask remake--despite the fact that the game is fully playable on the Wii and Wii U, for half the price.

My annoyance grows when Nintendo fans act like Nintendo is somehow magically immune to all of the wider issues of the industry. Almost every single thing Nintendo fans once balked at has occurred over this generation--DLC, on-disk DLC, day-one updates, pre-order bonus DLC, day-one patches, patches for bug fixing, F2P gaming, mobile gaming, buggy gameplay, games with massive installation packages (as XCX was revealed to have), online shooters, repetitive games, shovelware, toys to life. Over the past few years, I--and I'm sure all of us--have seen Nintendo fans adamantly against these concepts or claiming they'd never happen with Nintendo, and they all have.

About the only thing left is for them to become a 3rd party publisher like Sega. Might as well finish the list.

@Tazcat2011

If they were new to you, how can you say you appreciate the changes?

@Quorthon The Gamecube versions of those games were not exactly widely available and Majora was so unstable that considering it's time management mechanics it was nigh unplayable. I gave up after loosing hours of progress multiple times. The Wii VC version was better but still a little wonky.

New IPs have begun to appear from Nintendo like Project STEAM and Splatoon and hopefully they'll set the groundwork for new entries. But I still want to see established franchises seeing new releases with new features, but hopefully keeping what was good. I'd love to see a new 2D Metroid as its been so long since the last one but I'd also love to see a new Metroid Prime'esque game or even something completely new (as long as the spirit is kept).

I mean, it's not like other companies aren't simply taking what was successful and just doing some tweaks and perhaps a new coat of paint. I'm sometimes tempted to rename Bloodborne as Demon's Soul V4.30 Remastered Victorian Edition. Is that a bad thing? No. Demon's Soul was a great game and it's pseudo sequels expanded and refined the ideas it set; but the overall structure and gameplay remains very much the same. Same can be applied to so many series. Uncharted, Halo, Gears of War, Elder Scrolls, Civilisation, etc. Just because something has been around for a long time and has produced a plethora of successful titles based on a few franchises doesn't mean they should just stop.

To say Nintendo fans only want the same stuff is both narrow minded at frankly a might petty. New IP's have been on our wish lists for years (thankfully they're finally listening) but to simply chuck out established characters would be silly, especially as they also provide an element of exposure and good ideas that have worked very well this far. They could change the exterior and yet the gameplay would just remind people of the other franchises. Many other companies seem to be happy to change the outer layers but leave the inner workings the same (and then people seem to actually fall for it and think it's something "new"). Release a game with Mario or Zelda on the cover and it gets called a rehash regardless of any new ideas, game mechanics, etc it may have.

I hope recent events will result in a happy medium whereby we get a good balance of new properties and developments of the old ones. But don't create new properties just for the sake of it looking different.

@Quorthon There are more than a few videos and write-ups that discuss the key changes. A prior play through is not required.

@tysonfury

I'm curious why you think Wii U will stick around for a "few more years" when there is little evidence that it will even be around beyond 2016 and all signs currently hint at Nintendo winding down focus on the console--which would be the smart move on their part.

I see a lot of "gut feelings" and "wanting the Wii U to last longer," but no good rational reason why this ailing console will survive beyond 2016.

@FX102A at least when Nintendo releases a remake it is worthwhile. The worst example of a pure cash grab is Square and their FF VII announcement for PS4 when fans have been asking for a true remake for years.

@BinaryFragger Ive always considered the virtual console service a perk and not a selling point for a Nintendo console. It shouldn't be a main focus but Nintendo's NA/EU counterparts don't even treat it like a third rate service.Wiiu&3ds vc pales in comparison to the wii shope. Hell, NOJ vc makes the NA/EU shope look like a lazy effort in comparison. Playing old games shouldn't take priority over a new experience, but it's not like wiiu and 3ds have much outside of a lite sprinkle of 1st party games and a few indie games. I purchase games like Affordable Space Adventures and Shovel Knight, but I have dozens of indie games in addition to third party support on my Xbox&Playstation systems. In comparison Nintendo systems look a little barren, so I don't see why something that requires such little effort like emulating old roms that would appeal to decent sized audience that grew up playing these games is such a bad idea? Maybe I'll enjoy playing Mario Land 2 or Links Awakening 15 years later.

@Tazcat2011

Meh, you still never experienced those old issues, so it seems weird to appreciate changes to a formula you never experienced yourself. How do you know if you wouldn't have preferred them?

That's like these kids who go online and go "ha ha E.T. is the worst game ever! Superman 64 is the worst game ever!" Sorry, but their statement is just empty. They're just going by what someone else said without any understanding of why E.T. was so bad or why Superman 64 is such a disaster. They don't have an appreciation for the concept--they haven't actually experienced them.

I get appreciating the game, but changes to something you never experienced? That doesn't make much sense. That's like saying "I really appreciate the changes in the new Ford Explorer (if they're still making them)," when I've never driven a Ford Explorer before.

@Quorthon Sorry it's beyond your grasp.

@Tazcat2011

On what do you base your comment claiming only Nintendo makes worthwhile remakes? They sold a decade-old game for full price and gave it a slight graphical improvement. That was it.

When MS remade Halo 1, they gave it a complete graphical overhaul and included the original game in there if you wanted it.

Sony spearheaded HD remakes, and they all were very well received, because they gave you a whole set of overhauled God of War, Ratchet & Clank, Sly Cooper, and Jak & Daxter games--for a budget price, and updated features like Trophies and add-on content.

By all means, why are Nintendo's remakes better? The Ocarina of Time remake even kept several of the bugs of the original game, and only cleaned up some textures. That was about it.

This sounds like more special pleading--it's better because Nintendo. No, that is not a good explanation, particularly when Nintendo tends to price remakes as if they're new games.

And for your latter snark comment, indeed, irrationality is beyond my grasp.

@Quorthon I never said "only". Keep trolling though.

@FX102A

It's interesting that you say other companies "change outer layers but keep inner workings the same." That is the definition of almost every Zelda game not called "Majora's Mask," which by the way, was long-hated for veering too drastically from the norm. Often felt like I was the only person that actually liked that game on the N64. Zelda games, for being large adventure titles, even recycle the same plot over and over and over again. Several Metroid games have been little more than remakes of Super Metroid. What sold better on the Wii U? Original games like Wonderful 101, Lego City Undercover, ZombiU, Bayonetta 2, or a remake of a Zelda game?

Nintendo fans very much want their MZP (Mario-Zelda-Pokemon) games, which is why Nintendo has a determined focus to release as many titles in these franchises as possible every year.

Nintendo fans were happy to sound the drums of support when they said they wanted Xenoblade Chronicles, Last Story, and Pandora's Tower--but even quicker to keep their wallets closed when those games released.

By the way, the GameCube version of Wind Waker is handily easy to find: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=zelda+wind+waker+gamecube

It even costs less than the Wii U remake, and is playable on the Wii every Nintendo fan still owns. I'm also curious how, suddenly, Majora's Mask is considered "unstable" in it's original form or in the VC, when I have been told by people on this very site that Nintendo never makes buggy games. That's something "everybody else" does.

@Tazcat2011

To the ad hominem! When you can't explain yourself, just call the other person a troll!

Fair enough, I now understand the value of your statements.

Good anlayses. I like the particular statement "No sane analyst ever bet against Nintendo." Tis true, that's why I wait and see before I start slamming Nintendo against the wall. They get it wrong sometimes, but other times they get it right.

@Quorthon Ad hominem? Hardly, it's a fitting description of your need to lie about what I said and your relentless straw man arguments.

I like this idea, but how exactly does this create a blue ocean market? What kind of demographic would buy this that doesn't already buy video games? I'm not seeing how this is a groundbreaking idea that fundamentally changes the industry, it looks more like they're competing with Google and Apple.

@Quorthon completely agree with your observation, Nintendo have eventually fallen in with every major trend - DLC, smart phones and the rest. Nintendo going 2nd party on mobiles is happening, Nintendo going 3rd party on Sony and MS for the next decade at least is career suicide. In the interimm. But I think NX is a sign even Nintendo recognise we're heading towards one amalgamated scaleable platform - a world of one game on multiple screens. In 20 years we'll see a Sony/Nintendo hybrid I'm sure of it.

As to why I think Wii U will stick around - Nintendo is notoriously stubborn and in many ways it's methods are predictable based on its design philosophy. I think NX is an escape chute for Wii U in the same way DS was for game boy. They'd be foolish to give up 10 million TV gamers, but NX (if it's a tablet) is an attempt to merge them with handheld gamers. If the NX is a tablet, I think they'll try out an Apple TV type model with a sub $100 Wii U with no bluray drive or gamepad, let's call it Wii U mini. If that goes well, the next TV console will be an upgraded Wii U mini and so on.
So I think rather than pack up Wii U and roll out more fancy machines, I see Nintendo trying to capitalise on their investment with Wii U and turn a disaster into a success. That will keep the shareholders happy, it also happens to be the way the home media industry is going

Everyone assumes the NX will replace wii u when what really needs to be updated is the 3ds. Nintendo is moving towards making both these systems into one you can see the hardware now looks the same same button layout dual analog. 3ds is clearly peaked and on the down slope now. Nintendo wants one unique operating system across both platforms a 3ds that can play wii u games on the go

Basically Iwata's business strategy is "let's try everything except appeal to hardcore gamers", anybody can see this, you don't need a special analyst.

Just a controller!?! Please, that's the lamest most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Nintendo is making a new console. There not going to bank on just a new controller that interacts with things that aren't Nintendo products. Where would that leave their gamers? You know, the ones that have a 3DS and Wii U. I swear, what was this person thinking? Nobody ever knows what Nintendos releasing until they show it. That's what seperates Nintendo from the others.

@DarkKirby If the launch of the next system is another "unique idea" that doesn't entice the public/gamers or isn't developer friendly, I see Iwata being forced out.
Yes, Iwata did much for Nintendo with system's like the GBA,DS,and WII, but lately, I feel like he's been hurting the company more that helping it. It seems like NOJ has ignored all the strides gaming has made with online services over the last ten years.This obsession with innovation above all else has done nothing but drive away gamers and third party studios.And the fact they seem to ignore the fan base really annoys me the most.
I won't be rushing to BestBuy when the next Nintendo platform releases. I'm taking a wait and see approach next time, as I'm not going through this again with the big N.

@tysonfury

Man, I sincerely hope NX isn't a tablet. I hate to say it, but 10 million gamers is not a lot, not in this industry anymore. Granted, I would love nothing more than to make a game that sells that, but maybe one day...

I do think NX is an escape route for the Wii U (good phrasing), but I don't think it's got a lot more years left in it. Looking at it, it's already coasting on fumes with next to no third party support and even the biggest franchises not helping turn things around.

In the simplest of terms: The days were numbered for the Wii U when Mario Kart and Smash Bros failed to turn things around. Smash on the Wii sold more copies than Nintendo has sold Wii U consoles. Mario Kart sold 3 times as much. These are Nintendo's big guns, and while they will clearly sell well on a console people have adopted, they had a pretty minimal effect on actually selling a console itself.

This is why I think the Wii U's days are numbered.

Also, there's history to consider. We've had an official announcement from Nintendo about new hardware. For the GC, Wii, Wii U, and 3DS, none of them exceeded 18 months between announcement and release. Currently, the way it looks, NX will be here in November, 2016. And if it is an escape route for the Wii U, then the Wii U won't last long into 2017 before being quietly shelved.

Nintendo fans, as we all know, will buy anything from Nintendo, so NX will sell to them, and it's pretty clear that the bulk of the ~10 million sold Wii U consoles are to Nintendo's core audience--people who will be here for NX. If NX takes off and sells better than Wii U, upsetting a chunk of that 10 million may be a valid risk. Sega did this once, risked upsetting the mere 9 million people with Saturns to rush out the Dreamcast, but the gamble largely paid off--the DC sold really well and was taking off. Too bad they'd lost so much money in the interim, which helped stall DC momentum. The Dreamcast, by the way, was the last console that didn't have major 3rd party support, like EA.

However, I don't think going third party would be commercial suicide. Think about this--how many people have you talked to who would be interested in playing Zelda or Mario or Metroid, but they can't justify the price of the console just to play a couple games? There's no third party to further entice them, so this hurdle grows. Nintendo has a huge available audience of gamers out there--and they could reach them if their games were on Playstation or Xbox. Sony and MS know how to make and sell hardware and how to build and maintain strong core userbases.

I think them going mobile is going to be huge and it's going to grow. They'll make money there--lots of it, and as they do, they're going to reconsider how they do hardware, or if they want to do it at all. Nintendo is truly stubborn, but if they want to survive, they'll have to come around.

Frankly, though, I think close to you--we're moving away from dedicated machines to a more unified format (at long last) where MS and Sony--and yes, even Nintendo--are just different shop channels among a wider range. Video games should be sold like DVDs and streamed like movies--one combo set-top box and streaming service should be able to play any disk game and have shops for every publisher, and even independent shops--consoles vary in power and options, but can be made by anyone.

Sony is going to have Playstation streaming integrated into Samsung Smart TVs. Microsoft is going to link Xbox One to Windows PCs. This industry is advancing at a lightning pace.

@Tazcat2011

I do not lie and I made no straw men. Indeed, you aren't addressing my posts, you are avoiding them and calling me a troll because you don't have an answer. Oh well.

@Captain_Gonru When he starts implying it's basically a console, he lost me. I don't know what NX will be, but I'm okay with that. Even if Nintendo Life implies it won't be a handheld, GBA was doing fairly well when DS released. Everyone's just getting crazy with all of this stuff.

@Quorthon I'm not addressing your points because you are a dishonest person and argumentative for the sake of being so.

I'm pretty sure it's just a console, people. Didn't they already say it was a "dedicated game console?"

@DarkKirby

You forgot to add "because we don't know how to appeal to regular gamers and lack the confidence to actually be in direct competition with anyone."

@Tazcat2011

If I'm dishonest, then by all means, show when I've been dishonest with you. Otherwise, you're just sitting there clinging to an ad hominem.

You are name-calling because you do not have a good counter point.

@Quorthon Calling you out on your tactics is not name calling. BTW I've already stated where you lied.

Good grief, everyone... This guy is full of COMPLETE NONSENSE.
Here's a direct quote, dated March 17, from Iwata, himself:
"As proof that Nintendo maintains strong enthusiasm for the dedicated game system business, let me confirm that Nintendo is currently developing a dedicated game platform with a brand-new concept under the development code name NX,"

@tysonfury The GameCube wasn't a dismal failure. Commercially it certainly did under-perform, but in the end it still made Nintendo a modest profit, so I think "dismal failure" is somewhat of an exaggeration, to say the least. The only true dismal failure to this date is still the Virtual Boy, and not even the Wii U will change that, since that is also starting to improve.
@FX102A With all due respect: the one admission you make in comment #61 is based on a misunderstanding. Some would even go so far as to call that one of gaming's urban myths: it is VERY well documented that the Wii U GamePad was in development WELL before tablets even became a thing.

So, it wasn't a reactionary move from Nintendo seeing tablets becoming all the rage and wanting to have a piece of the pie. It simply was an evolution/translation from the DS/small screen (which also wasn't a tablet handheld) to the Wii U's big(ger) screen...

And obviously (like I have already explained dozens of times in more articles and on more sites than I care to remember) the GamePad is not even close to being able to qualify as a tablet. Touch screen functionality is the only thing that they have in common.
I do agree with most other things you say in this and the other comments you made on this article. You come across as quite level-headed with well thought out comments, so thumbs up for that.
@Quorthon Microsoft not rehashing IP's as much as Nintendo may in part be due to the simple fact that they don't (seem to) have as many interesting or marketable ones to do that with.
Yes, Nintendo is milking it, but could you imagine Nintendo without these well-known IP's? Sure, a few less games with them probably wouldn't hurt, but still.
And what could Microsoft put up against that besides for example Halo and Gears of War? (and don't get me wrong: I have all these games on my own Xbox 360 and I do really enjoy them)
Even Sony doesn't have that many unique IP's, let alone have some that are large enough to carry games across several genres. Like it or not, Mario does, hence his face plastered all over. I agree with your point about Nintendo fans doing a back-pedaling session on all the things they always "hated" on other consoles, although a minor exception must be made for Nintendo DLC: Mario Kart 8 is a prime example of DLC done right: solid gameplay, solid content and VERY good value for money with decent prices.

They may be late to the party but at least they improve upon the concept.
And also: a lot of their games truly are finished/not buggy. There definitely is an overall feeling of higher quality and/or care as far as first party titles are concerned, when compared to the other two. I agree with you that people shouldn't cherry pick by using notorious games such as AC:Unity and so on as examples, but there are quite a few more buggy games, some even with game breaking bugs. Something you'll to this day see less of on a Nintendo console. So not entirely non-existent, but simply less prevalent.

P.S.

I can't help but crack a bit of a wicked smile seeing you going head to head with some people again lately. You always bring up some valid points but I also remember my own argument with you some time ago. In the end we met in the middle but I still see that your, for lack of a better word, passionate (and slightly acidic) way of discussing things is probably not always understood as you might intend it to be. (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

Got to love speculation. Nintendo haven't announced anything about it.

@DarkKirby Appealing to hardcore gamers simply won't work though. The market has shifted for too long. Appealing to hardcore gamers means appealing directly to Xbox/PS gamers, who won't be phased by Nintendo trying to appeal to them. They'll stay on the platforms they are on. 3rd party multiplats on Nintendo aren't appealing to those hardcore gamers because they can already get those games on their current platform.

Simply put, those hardcore gamers may switch between Xbox/PS, but they'll never switch to something outside of that ecosystem, unless it's PC. Nintendo has absolutely no chance at taking that demographic back. Trying to now will be seen as laughable, desperate, and too little too late.

@Quorthon agree with most of your points! The reason abandoning hardware in the next decade would be suicide: it was that way for Sega

At the moment Nintendo, as you point out, can validly request people fork out £180 to play Wii sports, or Zelda (this, incidentally, was the Wii's rrp sweet spot - £250 for the Wii U is simply too much). Which means colossal profits for Nintendo. They, unlike Sony and MS, profit off every hardware sale from day 1.

As a relatively small company making relatively huge profits for their size, they can sell 10million and still tick over - Sony would need a lot more to claw back profit. And in that business model, and with a captive market of these Nintendo fanboys you love so much, they can make 10/10 games (and in some cases genuinely avant-garde games), and take their time over them too.

Thrown in to the shark pit with EA and Ubisoft, nintendo's whole design ethos would have to adapt to making titles that sell 100s of millions every year, and something would have to give. It would be like selling sushi at McDonald's. It was the reason REM quit the music industry after their cushy deal with Warner expired.

You can't be consistently interesting if profit is a major concern. Hardware sales give them that cushion.

This is what I love, speculation. I love the idea of thinking about what the future could bring, especially for a company as unpredictable as Nintendo. Whether this speculation could be possible in the future or not, the next few years for Nintendo will certainly shake up the gaming industry, that is for sure.

Sounds like a futurist power glove that works with multiple devices...

@IceClimbers

The biggest problem with saying it's pointless to appeal to hardcore gamers because the market is already lost, is that Nintendo absolutely does not have the casual market either. The loss of the casual market is what caused the Wii to eventually fail, and the Wii U to fail. In all honesty, hardcore gamers probably care more about Nintendo products than casual gamers, but the Wii U was specifically designed to appeal to casual gamers that no longer cared, and omitted features hardcore gamers care about. Nintendo made the Wii U difficult to port next gen multiplatform games on when they knowingly under powered it so they could sell it at a higher profit margin.

Continued business practices like intentional prevention of communication built into the systems and games, no account based digital purchasing system, region locking and censorship, is further a turn off for hardcore gamers.

@tysonfury prob describe N64 as a moderate success... so we learn that a killer IP with mass market appeal is a priority (I think?)

It's gonna be a small 'ouya sized' box you put on a table that interfaces with a lightweight 'helmet' device. When activated, you will enter a VR program where you can play NES up to Wii U games in a 'virtual' environment with the original 'virtual' controllers, and even some extra stuff like a Virtual Boy simulation and even a simulation that allows you and your friends to hook your 'virtual' GBA consoles into a 'virtual' Gamecube and play a 'virtual' version of Zelda Four Swords on a 'virtual' 47' CRT television.

You can even blow 'virtual' dust from your 'virtual' copy of Banjo Kazooie and be able to 'virtually' smack the side of your 'virtual' television to fix the 'virtual' scrolling that happens sometimes with the 'virtual' coaxial cable setup on a 'virtual' 'channel N', which is the VR equivalent to channel 3.

Actually, I just wanted to see the word 'virtual' in a couple of paragraphs mentioned 15 times.

@Quorthon Haha, PS3 innovative? Yeah, right

I don't know if this guy is right. Didn't Iwata announce the NX at the DeNA event to alleviate us fanboy's fears that they're leaving the dedicated hardware market? I'm not sure the NX will have anything to do with smartphones but we'll see eventually.

My money's still on a full-blown virtual reality system. They've already got the motion sensing tech, VR technology has finally reached a point where such a system would be feasable in a couple of years, and it would indeed be the next big thing in gaming.

@IceClimbers I wouldn't be too sure about that. If they could get the third parties back on board, I imagine there would be a lot of PS/XBox fans who would be swayed by the combination of standard third party releases combined with Nintendo's second-to-none first and second party catalogue (along with whatever Virtual Console the system may include). After all, there are a lot of people this generation who own either a PS4/XBO for third party games (and whatever first party gems their company of choice manages to squeeze out) and a Wii U just for the Nintendo exclusives. Most of these people would stick just with Nintendo if they had full third party support, and there's probably at least thousands more who can only afford one console a generation who would also jump on the bandwagon.

Now, Nintendo is never going to get into a spec war with the others, so they'll always be a little underpowered. However, as long is the gap is close enough to make the downgrading in ports relatively minimal, the right development tools are provided to make Nintendo ports as easy as any other, the online infrastructure is fully modernized, and they get off to a strong start to keep third parties from jumping ship over the "low install base" excuse, then they can pull it off. Managing all of that will be difficult, but you should never bet against Nintendo.

@BulbasaurusRex Virtual Boy 2 confirmed!

@tysonfury

Sony and Microsoft have been profiting off the PS4 and XBO. This generation, they designed the hardware so that they didn't incur heavy losses on them, so the "Sony and MS lose money on hardware" concept is no longer valid. Granted, MS may have reversed it a bit by slashing $50 from the price of the console, but they are still not losing money like they did on the X360, which lost $126 per console, initially. Sony has even noted that the PS4 is profitable already: http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/23/5744344/ps4-already-profitable-for-sony-ceo-says

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/23/ps4-already-profitable-for-sony

Dropping hardware wasn't the reason Sega struggled, they struggled and because of that, had to drop the hardware. I don't think dropping hardware would be suicide for Nintendo at all--and I think to say so is selling the company extremely short. Hell, they'd be able to sell their games to a far wider number of gamers.

I also haven't seen any avant-garde games from Nintendo. Journey, Fez, Proteus, and Limbo are avant-garde. Nintendo makes mostly platformers and puzzle-centric games. Very little truly "avant-garde." Nintendo very, very, very rarely strays from a formulaic standard for their games.

@Quorthon I would certainly called Super Mario 64 avant-garde, and Ocarina of Time. Wii sports too. Granted they're few and far between these days, but nintendo has broken the mould a few times.

Sony are certainly profit positive on ps4s now, though lost money for the first year. MS are still losing money on Xbox1. But my point about the hardware was that as a smaller company, Nintendo can do a lot more with a million dollars (or yen).

I think Nintendo profits very well from their 'exclusive' IPs. They don't call it club Nintendo for nothing. The sense of a buy-in from their fans. There is a sense (true or otherwise, but all value is perception) that Nintendo serves slow cooked gourmet food to seasoned gastronomes. Whatever the truth may or may not be! But they're not dumb.

Honestly I think Mario and donkey kong would sink without a trace on PS4. They need that buy-in to remain 'special'.

@TheRealThanos

I have a really, really, really low tolerance for fanboyism, particularly when it turns to sitting there bashing Sony or MS as on this site, or Nintendo elsewhere. All that does is show me that there is nothing good about Nintendo because the fans have to go to extremes to bash the other guys for petty reasons--and that is when my comments will become the most acidic, if you will.

I'm a Nintendo fan, but not a fanboy. I'm a gamer. I love video games and Nintendo is just a game company. I can think of a boatload of positives about the company and why I like them--without ever having to sit there inventing idiotic derision for MS or Sony, or Valve or Sega or whatever. I did when I was younger--I was a fanboy, but I grew up. And I know better than to sit there ripping on Microsoft and thinking that'll make Nintendo look better. If we have to go to that level, thenwe admit that Nintendo isn't actually better than anyone.

It may be a bit round-about, but I want people to think about the crap flowing out of their mouth (or fingers) rather than being such ignorant fanboys. Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, and Valve (who we should really be including more often given the popularity of Steam) all have their gaffes and issues, and all have their successes. There is room to criticize all of them, and there is also much to celebrate.

I'm tired of seeing Nintendo fans constantly run to special pleading for the company--it's a sickening level of cultish worship I can only equate to Apple fanboys or maybe Scientologists. There's this constant, pervasive persecution complex whenever Nintendo is criticized, rightly or not. There's this "attack everybody else to make us feel good" mentality that is sickening.

I mean, if the best a Nintendo fan can do is to sit there bashing the PS4, they're a loser. Let's face it. And frankly, if the PS4 "sucks so bad," but is still selling way, way better than the Wii U and has way, way more games and support, then clearly, the Wii U sucks way worse. This is not a positive mentality. This BS "us versus them" nonsense.

Between my girlfriend and I, we have every current platform for this generation, and we see the positives and negatives in all of them. She can't replace the internal drive on the XBO, but I can't plug in an external to the PS4. The Wii U has almost no storage space or games, and the indie push has yielded a staggering amount of--and I never thought I'd see this--indie shovelware. The Vita has crappy memory cards. I don't think the XBO controller is as comfortable as the X360, but the D-pad is way better. The GamePad is a failed gimmick. The 3DS is too expensive and has lost 3rd party support. Sony's cloud storage is ridiculously limited. The XBO menu is kind of a confusing mess. Criticisms everywhere. But these are realistic.

When we boil down to "WELL THEIR GAMES ARE ALL BUGGY AND BAD" petty fanboy rants, we're making Nintendo and their fans look like idiots, and we're demonstrating colossal ignorance for the industry as a whole. You know what else is buggy? Fallout. You know what's still an awesome game? Fallout.

Or the "all the same gray and brown games" bullcrap, which is demonstrably false. Bloodborne is awash in dark grays and metallic colors of a gothic fantasy world. When a Nintendo fan whines about the lack of cartoon colors in there, they just flat-out miss the point and run to fanboyism. Bloodborne is still staggeringly gorgeous and hauntingly captivating. I see clipping fairly frequently, but that is hardly a bug that reduces the quality of the game. It's still incredibly fun and rewarding, and frankly--Bloodborne is the best Metroid game I've played in years. And yes, I can totally elaborate on that if you like.

Could I imagine Nintendo without their well-known IPs? Well, of course not. No one could--at the same time, I have a great snark response: I don't have to imagine Nintendo without their great IPs, that's what we have right now! Look back on the variety on the NES and SNES and even the GameCube. Nintendo made actual sports games at one time. Every other game wasn't Mario. They had a huge variety of genres and styles.

Now? I'm just flat-out tired of every other game literally being from Mario. Mario 3D platformers, Mario side-scrolling platformers, Dr. Mario, Mario Kart, Mario Party, Mario Strikers, Mario basketball, Mario Tennis, and then Yoshi's Island, Yoshi (other themes), Luigi's Mansion, Wario games, Mario & Luigi, Paper Mario, Mario Maker, Captain Toad, Super Princess Peach, etc. These are all Mario-universe games! It's as bloated and out-of-control as the increasingly ludicrous Marvel Universe, which is probably going to collapse in on itself in a few years as we all increasingly grow tired of that as well.

Nintendo fans like to claim everything "looks the same" on other consoles, but seriously now, how is this not a similar problem for Nintendo? When every other damn game looks like a Mario game--because they are all related in some way--how is that any better than the sea of samey-shooters that became a stereotype of the last generation? It's not. Nintendo fans whine and moan and claim Nintendo is better and different and it's all special pleading. No, it's the same problem. Except instead of shooters, every game is the same damn Saturday morning cartoon. I wish they'd just admit that they like cartoon games and games that look like they're for kids instead of games that look like reality.

Frankly, though, I'd rather have both and be able to enjoy both without being burned out on one or the other. I don't see these problems with other console fans. There's the occasional Xbox or Playstation fanboy, but they are so rarely as bad as the outright hatred Nintendo fans--particularly on this site--have for everything not part of their cult. And I post over at GameInformer and PushSquare, and almost never see this kind of crap from Sony or Microsoft fans. The times when I have, I have indeed laid into them in kind--though in the last year, I deliberately drew back much of my posting over at GI. "Didn't want to turn into Phil Fish."

I almost never see them feeling like they need to create a list of abject, ignorant hatred to stereotype the other consoles or game companies. Xbox and Playstation fans will have issues with EA and Activision--but they never have the adversarial view of the companies Nintendo fans have. Commenters at PushSquare can openly criticize Sony and aren't attacked from all angles by insane fanboys.

Say one thing here, and the fanboy apologetics crank into hyperdrive, and the best many of the fanboys here can say positive about Nintendo... is to just lamely bash Sony or Microsoft. That's just so damn pathetic.

So, I'm sorry I didn't address all your concerns and went off on a bit (lot) of a rant, but I'm a Nintendo fan, and I don't have my head crammed way up my nethers about the company. Is it really too much to expect that of others?

@tysonfury

If Mario and Donkey Kong would sink without a trace on PS4, then they are worthless indeed. You're essentially saying that Mario and Donkey Kong are only good when they're on a Nintendo platform where there's no competition.

Evidently, I think far more highly of these Nintendo franchises than you do, as I think Mario would sell monstrously well on PS4. To the point that if offered the chance to host the franchise exclusively, Sony would leap at the opportunity. Hell, if Nintendo was smart, they'd not only go third party, but they'd do it by offering an exclusive partnership to whichever console maker wanted to work with them, and you can bet that would put MS and Sony--and maybe even Valve--in a bidding war for that partnership. Nintendo could have an influence on this industry that makes EA's reach look cute by comparison.

But, apparently, you do not feel Nintendo's IPs are strong enough to sell on platforms where there are actual game libraries to contend with. Interesting. That ultimately means you view Nintendo and their IPs as too weak to survive in the actual industry.

You are also wrong on the PS4 and did not look at the links--the PS4 was profitable almost immediately. Every console is sold slightly above cost--a major turn-around from selling the PS3 with a roughly $250 loss per console. The money MS may be losing on the XBO is being handily made back on software sales and XBL Gold subscriptions. They are both in a much stronger position than their predecessors. Again, before the price cut, the XBO was also being sold above cost. At most, they are losing maybe $35 per unit--a far cry from the $126 they initially lost on the X360, and the XBO is selling better than the X360, which means it is making that money back faster.

And you do not know what avant-garde means. Avant-garde means new, experimental, and unusual. Super Mario 64 is certainly an excellent game, but it's not really that experimental or unusual. It was an evolution of ideas whose foundations were in Super Mario Bros and Super Mario World. In modern terms, avant-garde is extremely unusual, sometimes unsettling, and very abstract. Like Proteus on the Vita. Or Flower or Journey. Or the Unfinished Swan.

@Tazcat2011

Tactics? You accused me of "mere trolling" because I dared to have a point and used that to blindly dismiss everything I said instead of addressing it--that is much closer behavior to trolling. And no, you have not proven me to be dishonest. Because I have not been.

@Quorthon Seriously, you take trolling to 11. I'm done with you.

@Quorthon whatever. I'm bored of this argument tbh

@Quorthon No need to make excuses for a heartfelt rant, good sir. Guess I should have left out the "for lack of a better word" remark, because you are passionate indeed, methinks. And passionate people is what I like. They can be very "in your face, steamrollery" types sometimes, but at least they speak their minds, so keep it coming, I'd say.
You also addressed most points, so no worries there, too. Would like to know if you'd agree with my Mario Kart 8 DLC being a positive exception, though...

But all in all: as far as I'm concerned there was a valid reason your argument with the others made me crack a smile...

To address your closing question: no, it's not too much to expect that from others, but fans will be fans and some are blinded. What can you do? (other than downright ignore them or try to make them see the light, which is virtually impossible in my experience)

I'll give you an example of the same thing happening between me and my fellow classmates way back in high school, only then the topic at hand was sneakers and sports shoes. The fan bases were Nike, Adidas and Converse and some of these "fans" where close to bashing each others head in simply because of them not being able to force their opinion on others. Sound familiar? Go figure...

Same goes for the dead horse that I'd like to call the console wars 2.0 (or 3.0 since I refuse to equate all this to the actual original console wars, which as we older gamers all know was of course the battle between Sega and Nintendo in the 8 and 16 bit era, not the mindless drizzle we have to suffer nowadays)

And even though you were, by your own admission, ranting along at a brisk pace, you still made some valid points once again, so at the very least you have my understanding of your point of view, but more often than not it's a feeling of being in agreement.

As for the criticisms you made towards all platforms: you called them realistic and I can go along with that to a certain point, but some of these are also opinions, or at least colored by opinion. (not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you)

For example: I know plenty of people that simply love the new Xbox controller and the same goes for the Wii U GamePad. I'll agree on Nintendo making a complete disaster of marketing it (the right way) and utilizing it to it's full potential in many of their own games, but I'm hesitant to call it a complete gimmick.

To me personally, a gimmick is something that is added to a product simply for the sake of adding it to the product, having no additional use or added value at all whatsoever. The GamePad does shine in some games, no matter how modest that may be: it still does. And with that it has erased the stigma of it being a gimmick. To quite a few people even just the option to use the Off TV Play is enough to warrant it's inclusion with the console.

We agree on the Sony memory stick, though...
We also agree on the games on other consoles, but I already mentioned in my previous comment that I truly enjoyed the games on ALL my consoles, including my Xbox 360. (and way more games than just Halo and Gears; at the moment I'm replaying Sniper Elite v2)
And for me bugs, as long as they aren't a truly game breaking thing, are also not that annoying, and I also enjoyed Fallout. Never had the patience to finish it, though. Maybe I should give it another try after I've done my rerun of Sniper Elite v2...
Bloodborne seems like a great game to me too, but not great enough to buy a console for: I still haven't made the jump to the current gen Xbox and Playstation because I unfortunately have more pressing matters to attend to, financially speaking, so a new console isn't something that is in the cards for me in the foreseeable future.

It'll probably be a huge backlog of games for me again, because in the end I will buy one or the other, but not any time soon.

@TheRealThanos

I think Mario Kart 8 DLC has been done exceptionally well. For a relatively low cost, they added 50% more content to the game. That is a damn good deal--a far cry from the "$5 for an extra character from Smash who was cut from a previous game and should've been there already." On a personal note, I'm just not that excited for Mario Kart, but I did buy the DLC pack. Mario Kart has long been my nemesis--few games drive me from placid to a fuming rage as quickly. I hate to admit this, but the original SNES Mario Kart is the only game I've ever thrown across a room. Damn thing still works, though. Mocking me, as it were.

True, my note on the XBO controller is more just opinion based on comfort. I think the PS4 controller is vastly more comfortable, and the first time I've ever preferred a Sony controller to literally anything else. But, my girlfriend really likes the XBO controller and my only issue revolves around the shoulder buttons and triggers, which feel slightly awkward to me. My note about them being "realistic" could have been worded better--what I meant was that I didn't have to invent a complaint or attempt to bash anyone to make the criticism, and merely having a criticism does not automatically mean someone else is "default better."

Oh, and I totally grew up with that "who has the cool shoes" BS from junior high school. My high school was largely Nike vs Adidas, with some kids getting by with Reebok if they were cool. You know what wasn't cool? My shoes. Voit and Spalding. Those were shoe companies, somehow. When I was younger and my parents bought the shoes, they went cheap. Big surprise, cheap-ass Voits fall apart before the school year is over. When I had my own money, Nikes. Amazingly, they last forever. Go figure. But still, I got to be super uncool with my Voits.

I enjoy Halo's story and mythology, but find the games rather dull. My girlfriend and I never even finished Halo 4, and I bought the small collector's edition. Reach was awesome, and we really enjoyed Halo 3--but that one was boosted by having someone with Master Chief, Arbiter, which made the co-op game more relateable, I think.

The GamePad discussion can go either way, but I now view it as a gimmick. Normally, I'd wait until the console is "over and done" before calling it, but I think we're at a point that it's not going to be a game changer. An add-on that Nintendo thought would sell the console (like the Wii Remote), but which even they have barely bothered to utilize. I've liked the GamePad, personally, for what it is and much of what it can do, but I think overall, it's existence just hasn't been justified. Almost every single game that uses it can be done with a standard controller, a regular TV screen, and some ingenuity. It's a shame, because I've had some ideas for it that, I'm quite sure, would be absolutely brilliant and would sell the concept.

There's really no chance of me doing it now, but I would have liked to make a DnD style dungeon crawler where one player is the dungeon master, using the GamePad and building the dungeon, setting traps, treasures, rules, secrets, and challenges while 4 other players attempt to traverse the level, to the point where the dungeon master can actually control enemies in battles against the players. But alas. It will not happen.

This was supposed to be a short response.

@Tazcat2011

I don't think you know what trolling is. Just because someone disagrees with you, or can prove you wrong does not mean they are trolling.

@Quorthon And you insist on continuing. SMH

@TheRealThanos

Oh, for what it's worth, seeing your comment above (I previously only read the part addressed to me, so sorry if this is butting in elsewhere), I also do not consider the GameCube anything like a "dismal failure." Frankly, I felt that it was a move in the right direction, but one that Nintendo ultimately failed to follow through on. Microsoft took a console with similar sales and turned its successor into the most influential platform of the last generation (barring the Wii Remote) where things like user accounts, features, Achievements, digital shops, online gaming, controller design, and the like are concerned.

Whenever I mention the GameCube in these circumstances, it's more to note that I don't think Nintendo looks upon it favorably. Iwata once famously stated that selling less than the GC would be tantamount to failure (he was referencing the Wii, but I think that sentiment continues), and they ultimately tried selling it as the perfect "companion console."

Despite it's sluggish sales and marginalized market presence, the GameCube is one of my all-time favorites, up there with the SNES, Genesis, X360, and DS. Granted, the GC was helped by having some of my all-time favorite games: All Resident Evils up to that point, Metroid Prime 1&2, Viewtiful Joe 1&2, Ikaruga, Luigi's Mansion, Rogue Squadron, and the ever-amazing Eternal Darkness. Oh, and Pikmin and Smash Bros were on there, too, I think...

While playing Bloodborne last night, I suddenly had a vibe of the original GC remake of Resident Evil... and I'm seriously considering buying that damn re-re-remake on the PS4, even though I still have the GC version.

And yes, Fatal Frame is one of my most anticipated Wii U games this year. I can't freakin' wait. I had almost no really enticing horror experiences last generation. RE5 was just the worst-designed shooter ever. Dead Space 1 was quite brilliant, but they went for RE5-like "shooting galleries" for Dead Space 2 and I never even picked up the third. Oh wait, Alan Wake. Alan Wake was OUTSTANDING. It was everything Resident Evil 5 should've been.

I would really like a good horror game. The P.T. demo on the PS4 is pretty amazing. Ahh nuts, I downloaded Outlast and still haven't played it yet. Maybe that one... But I'll be busy tonight. You know. Gotta stand in the streets, raise my fists and yell "MORTAL KOMBAAAAAAT" and see who challenges me.

Aw, but Kabal didn't make it this time...

@Quorthon Well, if they'd be living anywhere near you, then you'd at least have two contenders out for your blood at the moment...

A semi-quick reply to both your comments:
The only thing I've ever thrown (and I hate to say on numerous occasions) is N64 controllers, resulting in a hole in my wall and scratches on my N64 because of them rebounding on top of the console from being connected to that with a plug. Long live wireless controllers... (never smashed any of those, though; I somehow got over my youthful anger issues for the most part)

Totally agree on your GameCube favorites list. Although I would personally add Wave Race, 1080, Geist, Fire Emblem, Time Splitters (2&3), Baten Kaitos and F-Zero GX to it. I Would also like to add honorable mentions to some of the GameCube versions of multiplats, such as Skies of Arcadia, Crazy Taxi, Soul Calibur, the Prince of Persia trilogy and so on. And I definitely also had quite a bit of fun with Sega Soccer Slam.

To your favorite console list (to which I, oh surprise of surprises, agree) I would like to add my beloved Sega Dreamcast. A console with a few design errors but a lot of potential and great games. To me it's a console that definitely deserved a longer life cycle than it ended up having.

As for Mario Kart: could one of your issues with it possibly be a blue shell thingy? Or do you think it's too easy?

Your idea for the GamePad sounds interesting, was that your only idea or do you have more? Nintendo will probably support it for a couple of more years (considering news update on NX in 2016, possible first reveal somewhere near the end of 2016/beginning of 2017 and release in 2017/2018) so you could send them your concept.
As for Alan Wake: I played the demo and really liked it, so I bought the game, but because of my considerable backlog on the X360 I still haven't played it.
And finally: I don't mind long responses, especially since I'm not exactly of the short and sweet messages myself, as long as they have some substance and are interesting to read.

@TheRealThanos

I've had a lot of ideas on Wii U development, but our team had a sit-down about the future of the console and aren't sure how much we want to prioritize it. Our game didn't even pay off the dev unit, but our reviews weren't bad--of the few we got, we hovered around 70%. Not great, but not terrible--and we used the game mostly to prepare ourselves for broader development. We totally disregard our two worst reviews as one of them clearly didn't play the game beyond a few minutes and the other literally stated in the review that he'd never even heard of the genre before. Yeesh. We're not giving up, but we're trying to look at it realistically, and since we just got approved for PS4 and Vita development, that may take priority--and we've got a beat-em-up in the early stages right now.

The stand-out idea was for the dungeon-master styled game, but my concept list features around 30 titles in various forms of conceptualizing. One guy on the team has an idea for a simple rhythm game. I expect NX to launch in late 2016, with the final fizzle of the Wii U to occur in 2017. With any luck, Nintendo will create a cross-platform eShop so that games released on the Wii U can still be played and accessed on the NX. I hate this idea of games just "disappearing" when a new console comes out. The shops should always carry over in my opinion.

My issues with Mario Kart predate the Blue Shell from Hell. I always pegged the series as a cheater. Take someone out, and no matter what, they're right back to being a problem mere seconds later. The CPU never seems hurt by weapons, but I was always royally screwed. It just boiled my blood and has become ingrained in who I am. If I play Mario Kart, I am unlikely to play for long as it will inevitably drive me to a rage. I think the game punishes skilled play and at times feels uncontrollable. There's no other game that is such a fuse burner for me. Every game, occasionally, makes me annoyed at some point, but Mario Kart feels like it was deliberately designed to do that. I don't think Mario Kart is too easy, I think it's unfair. The only other game I can think of with a similar knack for "screwing over the player" was Puzzle Quest.

Man, the list of great GC games just goes on and on. For a long time, it was the console with my biggest game library. It's not even close anymore, but I haven't hit a "retro collector" vibe for it yet. I think that's coming, though.

@Quorthon Got a link to any footage or screens of your team's game(s)?

P.S.

I play all my retro Nintendo games (including GameCube) from a portable HD on my "software-wise altered" Wii. Works like a charm and the Wii being connected to my HD plasma screen by means of a component cable makes all the GameCube games look quite a bit better than on the original console. I never came across a better cable for the Cube itself; that was something that was sorely lacking around these parts. (I live in Europe)

@TheRealThanos

I have not directly linked this profile with my team's games or works on account of my not wanting to publicly anger fans when I have criticism of Nintendo--a company of which I have long been a fan--but I'm sure you know how fickle fans can be. Unfortunately, the game is not out in Europe--we have to look into that.

I'm still really confused that this site doesn't have the ability to send a private message to someone.

@Quorthon I can understand that. If you wish to continue this talk or should have some link to share to show me some footage or image, you can look me up on Xbox Live and send me a message there, just check my profile here for that.
The lack of a PM option on NLife is still a mystery to me as well. Hope they add one some time in the near future. That and a thumbs up/thumbs down button...

@TheRealThanos

I have written down your XBL account. I don't remember specifically what mine is! Ha, my X360 hasn't been on in a while. There are limited HDMI ports on my receiver and currently the Wii U and PS4 take them up, so the X360 and PS3 are not currently wired in. I need to hurry up and get that powered HDMI splitter.

Or I'll add the Nintendo Network account. My Mii is a "gray alien." The ones that like butts.

@Quorthon No rush. Thought you might have Xbox One as well, since that would work too. Other than that, you can also send a message through the Xbox Live website on your account page.

I really hope NX won't be something like N-gage! N-gage is what killed Nokia!

@Captain_Gonru Very true, but I feel like Iwata would have said it was a console it that were really the case. Then again, maybe there is something to it being a hybrid since Iwata refers to it as a brand new concept.