Super Smash Bros. on 3DS Lacks Circle Pad Pro Support Due to Processing Power Limitations

Right... but it's still stupid to give New 3DS owners an unfair advantage.

I barely ever used the C-stick in Brawl, so this doesn't really bother me, it is good to hear there's an actual reason to not support the CPP though. Btw, the article keeps saying "CCP" instead of "CPP".

To this day I've yet to have any need for a Circle Pad Pro, so I'm not particularly disappointed that Smash Bros won't support it. But it's still nice to know WHY that's the case, and this is certainly a good enough reason.

never used the c stick in any smash bros anyway

the c-stick is for newbies anyway. You perform much better without it and it's faster not to have to use it

No wonder there hasn't been portable SSB until 3DS. it would've been so limited on past handhelds.

I say adapt and overcome because im pretty sure that if the game was delayed to be released with the New 3DS next year the whining and tears would immediately follow!

Either way by that time we shall be neck deep in the SSB WiiU/ gamecube controller goodness to even really care…besides that sounds more like a personal preference because one lacks the proper skills to use the controls. Or maybe im just biased cuz i dont use the c stick so ehhh

Only the casuals would say the c-stick is pointless or for noobs. Yes the c-stick is not used often and is likely the most unimportant button on the controller, but it is literally impossible to do a some moves and techniques without it.

so... this means there's no possible way this game will support any kind of DLC... ):

Seeing how even the demo causes the 3DS to reset after exiting, I guess this makes sense. lol
But still...WHEN ARE WE GETTING THE NEW SYSTEM?! lol

@Franklin Just like it's stupid for Nintendo to give anyone a reason to buy a new 3DS?

If this was a third party saying the 3ds is not powerful enough fanboys will never buy it

@WaLzgi @Franklin Or like how it's unfair that XL owners get to see more graphical detail on screen than I do... and so on, and so forth.

I don't even have a CPP, so it doesn't bother me at all.

@nindocrash There was text found in the game rom including: Update the eshop to access the in-game shop. We will be getting DLC of some kind in Smash for sure, don't fret.

The game plays perfectly fine without a second analogue stick, I don't think a person who owns a New 3DS has any kind of advantage against a normal 3DS user. Unless the latter is a n00b!

Wait I don't believe this. Resident Evil Revelations handle the 3DS well with the Circle Pad Pro. I'm not buying this.

@WaLzgi They could give better reasons like lots of exclusive games.

My question is will this c stick be able to be used in the place of the circle pad pro on older games because as it seems to me is that they are different and it won't register with older games

This was obvious. I hope Nintendo learns.

Why can't people just support the new 3DS?

So, anyone with a CPP wanna boot up MGS3D to see if there's even more of a dip in performance?

I'm still not likely to get a new 3DS because of the timing. In a couple of years, we're likely going to see Nintendo's next-gen handheld, and that'll incorporate everything the new 3DS has along with its own stuff. It's the same reason why I never upgraded to a DSi from a DS.

@Guitardude7 @Guitardude7 I still don't understand. Resident Evil had online co-op and everything. While support street pass, 2 save file slots, able to access internet browser or friend list while the game is suspended, AND it wasn't 2D like Smash Bros.....it's full 3D gameplay. Yeah I'm not buying it.

This doesn't look similar to regular Wiimote and Wiimote Plus...

What are "suspend game options"?

@manu0 When you press the home button, the game is suspended, and you can go to other apps like Internet Browser or Miiverse. This is not the case with Smash Bros. running on old 3DS, which uses almost all of the hardware resource. New 3DS model won't have this issue.

@Azooooz Huh, didn't know you can't do that when running SSB.

I don't care at all. I'll be getting smash at midnight on Friday. Definitely want the new 3ds, was sold when they announced port of xenoblade chronicles.
Will transfer all my digital games tongue new hardware then, all sorted

@manu0 What SMB are you referring to, the Virtual Console, or New SMB?

@Azooooz Oops, I meant SSB of course

@manu0 If you have a demo of the game, try it.

@Azooooz Yeah, it's also weird, that the game basically restarts your system when you quit o_O

@manu0 That means SSB uses almost all the CPU power in the old 3DS. The new 3DS has an improved CPU that would let you multitask when the game is suspended.

Never really cared about "C-sticking" in Smash.. So this doesn't affect me one bit.

Welp this further supports the need for the new 3ds. If nintendo is going to keep pushing the system to the limit this refresh is really good for us.

@Yorumi just sell your normal model to afford this one and why would something that improves upon the original be in a cheap price? You got to make sacrifices sometimes

@XFsWorld Online coop for TWO people.

As they pointed out already (@Guitardude7), Smash Bros supports 4 people online. This isn't even factoring in the amount of stuff that occurs on screen at any given moment especially when items are on "Very High" while maintaining 60fps in 3D mode.

I've played Revelations before and I can tell you it has the occasional fps drop. This happens a lot more when 3D is turned on. We also need to factor in that in Revelations, despite the game being in 3D, like all 3D games not every area on a map is visible at any given time. This is one of the major ways of saving resources in game development, you don't render what the player can't see. If you can't see something due to a wall or being behind you it uses less resources. On the other hand, you're looking at a 2D game which is rendering 100% of the time as the map is essentially in full view for the entire game. This applies even when the players are all off of the central map location (for example if they all collided with a Bob-omb that just fell onto the map), in fact they get a magnifier to keep even them in view at all times. This also doesn't take into consideration that despite the game being played on a 2D plane, the actual characters and levels are 3D models.

@Yorumi Uh why did you say Nintendo? Sakurai and Namco are in charge of development. Sakurai is also an independent contractor now and has been for awhile. If you're going to point fingers at least do it to the right party. Certainly the power issues can be attributed to Nintendo, however the actual accusations appear to be made by someone else.

Unless you use smash attacks a lot or you suck at timing, there's no point to this.
I would only use a C stick in the air.

@unrandomsam There are some reasons so far. There are interchangeable plates (small version only though), updated specs (for some reason many gamers care about this) and the possibility of improved and/or exclusive games. I'll probably get one eventually, but not now

@Yorumi this system was made to give people what they wanted. This is more stronger than a standard 3DS, you don't have to buy a circle pad, more memory etc. You should be happy Nintendo is doing this

I figured this was the case. They should have made the original 3DS with the new 3DS's specs and design or realistically, made the new 3DS the first upgraded model, not the XL. By waiting so long, they're pretty much splitting the userbase 3 years in.

@WaLzgi No, but giving an advantage to those who pay more is stupid.

@Yorumi you need to understand that there's games that just won't work on a regular model as they lack the processing power to do so. Xenoblade Chronicles 3D is the first game announced that obviously is too much for 3DS. Nintendo isn't screwing over anyone

Excited to get the "new" 3DS! I'm not sure if I want the XL version for the larger screens or the regular version for the interchangeable face plates.. The standard edition also has the colored ABXY buttons where as the XL edition has the letters ABXY in different colors. The slight improvement of battery life is also great.. and the new 3D effect, of course.

@Yorumi I think I totally agree with you. It might be worse than that, even. I think Nintendo pretty much intentionally designed Smash around the specs of the New 3DS (not completely, but I think they were thinking it would be a good reason to make people buy a New 3DS if some perks were included for those playing it on New 3DS) and so they engineered Smash 3DS to not be ideal on the current system. So, instead of just focusing on making it run perfectly on the current tech, they tried to force it the engine to accommodate a higher standard. That's not fair to their consumers, IMO. Give us something that's designed for what we already own, or push Smash 3DS to the next gen hardware. This slight upgraded hardware move is no longer just a revision with better 3D, it's looking more like a business decision to force unnecessary upgrades. I guess I am happy it does run on my current system at all, but without CPP support and miiverse, I am missing out on some of the experience. I'm not rushing out to get a New 3DS, though, you can be sure of that.

@Mega719 It doesn't warrant alienating 30,000,000+ 3DS owners, it's just not good business sense in my opinion. If a game isn't possible on current hardware, Nintendo should do what they have in the past (ex. Star Fox 64) and wait till the next generation of consoles, instead of making yearly releases like a phone company.

Although I'm not on board with the whole new 3DS thing, I'll probably end up buying one anyway XD

@Yorumi not all games work on 3DS because again it lacks the necessary power. With this version bigger games can be made and new features can be added. Smash Bros is an example and MH4

If you write software that depends on more power and don't find ways to make it work, you are making an awful decision. Not to mention a lazy one that will just mean for a bad experience for the player.

Based on the way the game loads, I would guess that the OS reboots into a low memory mode before loading the game, so this wouldn't surprise me.

@Yorumi Game Boy Color and DSi say hi. The New 3DS is no different from those - hardware revisions of the same platform that had some exclusive games.

Want an example of a game? Pokemon Crystal. It's a Game Boy game that was not playable on the Game Boy, but was playable on the Game Boy Color, which was still the same platform. Sure, Nintendo may treat them as separate platforms now, but not then. I'm willing to bet that Nintendo will do the same for the New 3DS later on.

Also, think. Would Nintendo really want to make the majority of future 3DS games exclusive to the new model? Why would they cut their own software sales like that when they MAKE THEIR MONEY FROM SOFTWARE SALES?!!!! Very few games will be exclusive to the new model as a result.

So you're happy that new games won't run properly on the old tech even though technically they might play on it, but in a way that sacrifices? I would like the company to please stick by the tech they have for at least a full gen. DSi had a processor upgrade but it wasn't used to improve any major releases. DSi was also a system I never bought because, again, it didn't make sense to me that they were making it. GBA library on a DS Lite was far more important than what came out on the DSishop.

Wait a minute, this game takes up 2.1 GB of data and a 3ds game can hold up to 8 GB. So does this mean that the ice climber models and the circle pad attatchment take up 5.9 GB alone?

@rp17 Might I ask what you can do with the C-stick that can't be done without it? Smash attacks (including charged ones) have always been mapped to the A button & left stick.

EDIT: All I can find from looking it up is a bunch of things that can be done without the C-stick.

Sakurai sure is becoming a good liar in his old age.

@IceClimbers you said almost the same thing I was going to say.. Besides, the game at the center of discussion, Smash Bros. It's not like it's unplayable on the new hardware, or even crippled for that matter, well unless you care about suspend states and Miiverse.

As far as the New 3DS, I'm sure they'll keep the exclusives to a few, just like they did with the GBC and DSi...

Everyone should just be happy that a portable Smash was made possible and that improvements are being done, even if it's on a separate system. Better now than wait for another generation.

Bad decisions from Nintendo are fair game to point out, even if they aren't the end of the world. It's good for Nintendo to hear some honest feedback that they are screwing up, but they will only really learn if the New 3DS sales are bad. Too late to help the games it taints before then, sadly. I hope a New Wii U isn't on their mind.

@NintyMan
Not just that, the New 3DS has the stick built-in, so the CPU won't have to process the signals from the infrared port.

@Yorumi Actually, you did. There were plenty of retail DS games that could only be played on DSi. Whether they were good games is another matter, but that is irrelevant.

Who's to say Nintendo won't label the few exclusives as only playable on New 3DS?

Also, it's not our fault Nintendo stuck with the Game Boy as their handheld for 3 console generations (NES, SNES, N64). Regardless of them being labeled as Game Boy Color games, it was still the same platform. The time lapse means absolutely nothing.

Xenoblade is the only game right now that is exclusive to the New 3DS. A Wii port. The other games just have added features that make them better on New 3DS, like many DS games did on DSi.

Also, if the New 3DS was the original hardware, the system would have cost $300 minimum. The 3DS would have taken longer to get off the ground (if at all), the handheld market could be nonexistant right now, and the Wii U would be selling like the Xbox does in Japan, if not worse (even with MK8 and Smash, which would be 2015 games in this case).

Nah, I never really used the C-Stick myself, though the two shoulder buttons definitely would've been handy, but no biggie.

@Imagamerboi
There are no 3DS games that use the 8 GB cart (I doubt the carts themselves have been made as no games has need of them). The reason Ice Climbers aren't in the game and the Circle Pad Pro won't work on the normal 3DS is because the normal 3DS just isn't powerful enough.

Just let me change the d pad to the C stick and I will be more than happy.

@B3ND3R Are you kidding? I loved that thing. I can't live without it now.

@Yorumi Foto Showdown, Ghostwire: Link to the Paranormal, Picture Perfect Hair Salon, System Flaw, and in Europe, Face Training: Facial exercises to strengthen and relax from Fumiko Inudo. They weren't exactly good games (except maybe Ghostwire, but that got delayed indefinitely), but the point still stands.

As for the price, it would definitely have been $300 minimum. Remember, Nintendo had always sold their hardware at a profit from launch up until the 3DS, which sold miserably because of Nintendo doing that. As the New 3DS is more powerful, then Nintendo would have done the same thing but priced it accordingly (at $300).

PS Vita was $250 because Sony sold it at that price to be competitive with the 3DS, but as a result they sold the system at a massive loss. Not sure if the current Vita (which is cheaper to produce because it doesn't have the OLED screen) is sold at a profit or not.

@Yorumi
Donkey Kong 64 and Zelda Majora's Mask required a hardware upgrade to the N64 to be playable. On top of that, there were numerous wii games that required a hardware upgrade to the controller to play.

Nintendo does this sort of thing often. The 3ds doesn't physically have room for expansion, though; Which brings the necessity of a new model into play. I think that this is definitely the best scenario as well, because of this transition we get a more powerful handheld that won't be forced into the HD era. This way games stay cheap to produce and more niche genres stay represented.

I'm frustrated with the absence of Circle Pad support for 3DS in general. That resource limitation thing better be true. We will find out. We have nerds.

The way I see it is if they can push the hardware to look and run as good as Smash 3DS does then its worth losing petty features like CPP support and miiverse intergration

yeah of couse it due to limited processing power... bullpoopeydoodlepoo!!

_{Watch the language -Lz}

@dronesplitter Well the alternative is to not have Smash 3DS... and judging by Japan's sales that would be a bad idea instead

I'm fine with this, after all the 3DS -> New 3DS upgrade is pretty much equivalent to GB -> GBC. The name choice is what's really causing these complaints.

I have a better question about names: why do you all really care about the name so much?

@WaLzgi But I'm actually saying we could have had Smash 3DS and CPP support had they simply tried to engineer the game that way and not release new hardware with better specs and a second stick (New 3DS). That makes sense to me. Upgrading the system specs in the middle of your current gen does not make sense to me. I, of course, am happy they didn't make Smash 3DS exclusive to the new hardware. That would have been the worst case scenario (and I bet had they been dumb enough to do it, they would have gone with the PR spin that the old 3DS simply couldn't run it like they are saying with Xenoblade 3DS). Instead we get a game that will run and play better on that new hardware but is still functional on the old hardware.

@dronesplitter I would believe you if you actually knew how the game worked... Implementing the CPP would probably have required some sacrifices and corners cut, and I doubt that's really worth the effort at this point.

Well, it's just a matter of them working it in from the beginning. CPP support was added in the form of a left handed play mode for Kid Icarus and that game was able to incorporate near the very end of its development. Smash 3DS doesn't use it at all and yet the peripheral was obviously there for them to incorporate from the start. But I'm sure pushing New 3DS was also part of the agenda early on as well.

Why they won't just replace "processing power limitations" with the much shorter "Buy a New 3DS" is beyond me.

@IceClimbers Well you might also want to count that Nintendo really didn't have any competition back in the Gameboy days for portables. Now they have to deal with one other major video game company and the widespread use of smartphones/tablets. Japan is probably the biggest casualty in this regard.

@AVahne Well it was confirmed that 8 gb is how much data a 3ds game could hold so it is possible. I can't prove it myself since I'm using a phone but you can just look it up and it will say 8 gb.

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh

@tHeMarriedGuy There are some combos and button inputs that need to come out so fast it is obviously easier to use the c-stick. Such as Pivot smashes in Smash 4. It is also very key in performing a DACUS in Brawl. However I suppose these could theoretically be done without this... maybe... not exactly sure...

However, "the C-Stick can also be used to perform aerial attacks, in which case the attack will be performed in the direction the C-Stick is tilted." This allows you to do do a rising down air. Without the c-stick, if you pressed jump and then you pressed down and A you would immediately start fastfalling. The c-stick allows you to dair and continue going up. Likewise the wiki mentions using back air without losing your forward momentum.
http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/C-Stick

I was upset to hear this, but it's not necessary for me.

I started playing Brawl with the Wii Remote, so I can pull off Smash Attacks with relative consistency without the C stick. I've already gotten used to doing it with the 3DS, so again, no big deal.

I would imagine that this isn't processing power that's just for the system alone. I think they're talking about the screen being full of stuff while people are playing online as well as having a Circle Pad Pro attached. I can imagine that would drop the framerate more than a little. They could have sacrificed visuals for it, but then we'd likely have an N64 looking Smash Bros on the 3DS with a significantly better version on the Wii U. If they did this to keep both versions looking similar, I can get behind it.

@Franklin It's not unfair, they paid more for the console and it has a more powerfull cpu.

@Link506 It llooks like they sacrificed the C-stick smash atacks for taunts XD.

Guess that new CPU isn't that much faster.

@Imagamerboi
I've already known about that. That is what the manufacturer of the carts says would be a possible cart size for them to make. It doesn't mean that we'll see any games that uses them. The majority of games now use 2 GB carts with just a small few using the 4 GB carts. Perhaps we'll finally see those theoretical 8 GB 3DS carts for New 3DS games like Xenoblade.

@Noboty
Er...what? This is an article for the current 3DS, not the New 3DS.

Huh, and I thought that I was pessimistic about Nintendo. For people to be IDIOTIC enough to think that this is a marketing ploy rather than an actual reason....the Nintendo fanbase seems to be worse than I thought.

i'm fine with this, screw the c-stick in smash

also, i'm impressed enough they got something running on the 3ds that's going to run just as smooth as it's full console counterpart, the device "reboot" it does when returning to the home menu from the demo is mind blowing enough. can't wait for that New 3DS to come stateside

Who play fighting games with 2 sticks anyways? One is already enough.

@Yorumi Except I'm confident that Smash 64 is much more primitive than the new game. Keep in mind that there are more things going on in this version. I really doubt it's as simple as you think it is

Not really fussed about it since I don't use the c-stick much anyway, but I find it odd that MH4U is compatible, yet Smash isn't. Monster Hunter has just as much going on, possibly more.

@IceClimbers
I believe Pokemon Crystal actually launched along side the GBA, infact they even had a bundle. You could also argue that GBC games were actually held back a bit to ease the transition. Nintendo received a ton of flak for releasing a console thats incompatible with older games (SNES), so they might have made sure to take extra precautions. They didn't start making only for GBC games untill the installbase grew.

@Wayward
The N64 had an expansion-slot, and the RAM expansion was bundled with DK64, not sure about Major's Mask, but it probably was.

This game is too crazy good to complain about. The 3ds is pushed so far. Have you ever though about how many calculations are instantly computed in a single second. Priority (between, smash, specials, items, assist trophies, ect, ect ect,...) damage percentages and character weight classes, item appearances, 60fps, great graphics and textures, renders, stages, there is so much going on in a single smash match. Thanks for trying, but not worried.

Oh, and before anyone says something like OOOH only Nintendo is locking out people by having a mid-gen hardware upgrade with all these GBC, DSi and N3DS examples:
PS3 - Many games nowadays will overheat/hang and shut off the first PS3 models (the "fat" ones). Even the video game store I go to warn people about this all the time.
X360 - I'll go look for the source, but current X360 units are more powerful than launch X360 units.

Funny how some people hated the CPP before but are now upset that Smash Bros. doesn't support it.

I'm not so upset about removing the 'cheater stick' for 3DS, but I do wish the darn demo allowed me to re-map some of the buttons. I'm still constantly hitting the wrong attack buttons or punching when I want to jump (I don't do as well flicking the stick up to jump) and I keep confusing the grab button with the shield.

Hope the full version has different control schemes or else I might have to pass on this version, which is a shame because I still find it fun when I can actually remember for two seconds which button does what.

@KryptoKrunch It's not about the CPP, it's about the (so far) subtle nudge to buy the "new 3DS" already, i'm used to Nintendo doing periodic hardware updates by now, but this is the first time that we're seeing pushing like this to spend the cash on an upgrade (i'm too cynical to believe that SSB will be the end of it)

Would be nice to see Kid Icarus release on WiiU with twin-stick support.

@mh1989 Why did Nintendo make the CPP you ask? Capcom asked them to and Monster Hunter is one of the most popular games on the 3DS in Japan so you go out of your way to keep Capcom on board.

Kid Icarus got the support it seems near the end of development for left handed players (it gives the 5% CPU story credence, they had optimised the game so had some spare at that point, they didn't announce it sooner as they unsure they could pull it off).

@Starwolf_UK -This is no excuse for not including the extra stick and power in the XL considering the issues were already well documented beforehand and nintendo had already released the accessory to fix the issue.

This doesn't hurt me at all. I guess everyone has their preferred control schemes. I come from early street fighter, mortal combat, primal rage, and tekken fighting games. Back in my day, we didn't have circle pads and analog sticks I honestly can't get used to using them on fighting games. The input isn't precise enough for me. D-pad fo' life! Its just one more reason for me to upgrade to New 3DS, though unfortunate for some that can't/won't right away. I like that Nintendo wants to make bigger and better games. That's what we need. Overall better hardware is necessary to provide a better experience. But don't think they wouldn't milk all they could out of the older system first. They've done so and it's had a good run. Nintendo is notorious for sticking to its guns, which i highly respect, no matter what people gripe and moan about. Now? Time for a better handheld. I'll embrace it, quite literally.

I wouldnt care, but dont give the new 3ds owners an advantage

I never use the C-Stick anyway, so I don't care.

This so BS they should just do it the way they did with Kid Icarus: Uprising where you can only use one stick at a time and Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate where the ZR and ZL buttons function as the R and L buttons, respectively. It would satisfy those that want the CPP and it would be optional for those that don't care for it. Also, the "New 3DS" C-stick is more likely to detect what you are inputting incorrectly because it is so small and in Smash your fingers are moving so fast, as well as the fact that it is actually more out of the way than the CPP. It would only be a small update costing relatively little for them in terms of time and money. There are so many people that want this, why would they not do it, besides they would make even more money by selling more CPPs to people.