The recent announcement that Captain Falcon, Lucina and Robin would be joining the cast of Super Smash Bros. on the Wii U and 3DS was both thrilling and somewhat disappointing; although the reveal trailer featured Fire Emblem favourite Chrom — leading many (us included, for a short time) to believe that he would also be making the cut — he's not actually going to be playable in the final game.
In his regular column for Japanese magazine Famitsu, Director Masahiro Sakurai has explained why Chrom was left on the cutting room floor and reveals that the character was in contention at one point, but was dropped because he simply wouldn't have added anything new to the roster:
I played all the way through FE:A and really wanted to include a character from that rich cast in Smash Bros. Naturally, I considered adding Chrom to the roster, but the decision wasn't easy by any means.
At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics.
Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place. Not only did he possess characteristics unlike other fighters, but he also captured the essence of the Fire Emblem series. It was perfect!
In the end, if a game isn't fun, then there's no point. Of course, it would be really easy to make a game by churning out a ton of similar characters, but that's not how I produce games.
He also went into detail on why he decided upon Robin and Lucina for inclusion in the game:
Robin appears in the game as a Tactician and functions much like a Mystic Knight (note: FF terminology, but equivalent to magic swordsman). I thought to utilize his all-around nature by assigning swordplay to his Smash attacks and magic tomes to his special attacks--that is, allow him to use magic.
His neutral special is thunder magic that grows stronger the larger you charge it. He uses fire magic for his side special, and wind magic for recovery as his up special. Although Robin doesn't use dark magic in FE:A, I decided to assign it as his down special. It isn't the first time I've given moves to a character that they don't use in their respective game in order to capture certain aspects of the original title.
I also implemented the system used in FE:A, in which tomes break after overuse. Likewise, I included a similar system for the Levin Sword, which breaks after a certain number of uses. However, both the tomes and the Levin Sword will quickly regenerate after a set period of time.
Lucina uses the same techniques as Marth, a fighter with whom I'm sure most of you are already familiar. I even went so far as to make their strength, speed, and special attacks almost identical.
However, what sets Lucina apart is the fact that the strength of her attacks is uniform along the blade. Marth's playstyle emulates the elegant swordplay of a fencer by dealing more damage when he strikes with the tip of his blade, but the damage Lucina deals is evened out. Thus, I think that Lucina will be much easier than Marth for novice players to play with.
Finally, Sakurai reveals that Lucina was very nearly an alternative costume option for Marth:
Initially, I had considered including Lucina as one of Marth's alternate costumes. After all, she has a close relationship with him in FE:A. In such cases, even if two characters' names and voices differ, as long as they function the same way, I assign them as alternate costumes. The Wii Fit Trainers, Villagers, and Robin are examples of this setup.
However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!
Are you still disappointed that Chrom isn't going to be playable in the game, or do you think Sakurai's reasoning is sound? Cut up the comments below with your mighty blade and let us know.
[source gonintendo.com]
Comments 171
All I saw that day was a Captain Falcon reveal trailer with a bunch on Fire Emblem characters running around.
The reasoning is sound but I'm still disappointed... Now what do I do?
I don't really think Chrom and Lucina are that different, when it comes to how they were in FE:A, but reading Sakurai's explanation, it's a good decision and just another way of incorporating a female character over a male character. I think it's good for the overall diversity.
@Cav44
Uh...Wait about four months for the game to be out?Not rocket science.
"Although Robin doesn't use dark magic in FE:A, I decided to assign it as his down special." He could have used light magic; Awakening has a single light tome.
I would rather have Roy than Chrom or Lucina.
I'm super glad for Robin and Captain Falcon's reveal, but I'll never understand Sakurai's reasoning for including Lucina who he admits is essentially a clone of Marth but leaving out Chrom as he would just be 'another swordsman'. And Lucina is not?! If he needed a female, he could've included Sumia as a lancer, a slower, more defensive and more unique character.
Lucina is another female rep, and I think that's the real reason
Don't really care about Chrom, barely used him in FF:A. Glad that Lucina and Robin joined, though there are other more unique characters in that world that also could have joined. But limited space/time/money... Maybe next game.
Or DLC addon.
I've played a bunch of MMORPGs and I always play Lightning Mage or Warrior Mage. Robin will be my preferred FE character comes Smash Wii U!
It probably would have been more accurate to say that Tacticians can't use dark magic. Robin certainly had no trouble at all using it if you changed him into a Sorcerer.
Well.... I'm not disappointed with the inclusion of these characters, but I personally don't like the idea of having different characters within the same roster (eg female wii trainer & male wii trainer, and what would have been Marth & Lucina). I'm also not a fan of having two characters sharing the same identity like Mario/Dr Mario, Zelda/Shiek, Samus/Zero Suit Samus, Link/Toon Link because I think it spoils the uniqueness of what each characters are supposed to be. I think playing Smash Brothers should be treated as a trip down memory lane where you play as DIFFERENT characters fighting each other, rather than having one kind fight the same kind from the same franchise.
Maybe there should be an item that transforms your character into their alter ego, so that at least the roster is not wasted on the same thing.
Eh, whatever, I'll live.
I'm just happy we got a FE:A representative that wasn't Chrom or Lucina.
Chrom and Lucina are nearly identical........why does he think otherwise is a wonder..... I don't want to be rude here but I don't think he's observed Chrom's move sets. He has the Falcion for crying out loud!!!!!!
That reasoning doesnt make sense to me...
Chrom isnt unique enough, but Lucina (Who he says even shares the same moves and characteristics as Marth), makes the cut? Their clothes are even similar. I know the way they deal max damage is a little different, but that doesnt really seem a great justification.
Happy with Robin anyway, not such a fan, but his moveset looks very cool, unlike any other character I can think of.
@LAA It's because with Chrom they would have to make a new character but with Lucina they just had to copy a few gameplay files and alter them a little bit.
I think Lucina should've been a Marth alternate costume. But oh well.
Exactly why I didn't think Chrom or Lucina (still kinda disappointed that shes a clone) would be in the game. Robin i'm happy with because they added a magic user.
If they were gonna add another FE it needed to one that wasn't a sword user. I think Hector (Thunder Axe), Shinon (Marksman), or maybe Lyon would have been better FE choices over a clone.
@PvtOttobot His reasoning was that she was an alt. costume but she had slightly different properties from Marth so she got her own roster spot. He wasn't looking for another female character or another fire emblem character, he said it himself, Lucina is an alt that got lucky.
I think people are forgetting that Robin is the main newcomer and he's a fair bit more interesting than Chrom; Lucina was planned to be an alt but the small differences were enough to give Lucina her own slot. She didn't replace anybody so she's merely a bonus; between having her and not getting anything else, I know what I'd want!
@ueI I really don't understand why people miss Roy. He's relatively insignificant in the Fire Emblem universe when compared to the characters chosen to be in the game. He was included in Melee as an afterthought to promote the upcoming GBA game in japan at the time. He was essentially a glorified advertisement. And since his game never saw an international release, nobody outside of Japan can relate to his character and there's fundamentally zero nostalgia tied to playing as him. I for one am happy he's gone.
I think it's pretty clear that Lucina made the jump from costume to full character really recently, she is not even having the full "new character" treatment in the smash site and..am I the only one who saw the question mark at her announcement? O.O
Just an opinion, but I think the cartoon was a joke, tricking us to think they added her when instead Robin was the only actual new character. Ironically Lucina became part of the roster for real between the make of the video and the reveal XD
Essentially Sakurai says Lucina is Roy 2.0 so our boy Roy is gone for good :[.
@Nimious
More like Roy 0.5. From what I can tell Lucina is even more of a clone of Marth than Roy was.
@DivineStorm I guess it makes sense, only I'd expect it still takes a sizeable amount of effort to change from an alt to a real character (clone or no). I would've rathered her as an alt and Sakurai's time spent on improving the borderline crappy graphics.
Good reasoning and I'm getting more and more hyped for this Smash! Still hoping for Cranky to join but I guess that's unlikely, although I feel he'd definitely add some variety. Yeah it seems Lucina just upgraded from being an alt to having her own roster slot due to the slight difference, I'd rather she was slightly different than just an alt so all's good with me!
@Shiryu me too. There were some fire emblem characters blocking my view of captain falcon all the time, whom I wanted to see more of.
@Expa0 I'll say Lucina is Roy 2.0 until the specs come out. From what I can tell the similarities so far is no tipper, smaller hitbox and likely lower weight compared to Marth. The real details however that will define Lucina are completely unknown. Things like hit stun, combos, lag, grabs, fall speed, etc are all unknown.
I would very much doubt Lucina will remain so similar to Marth. As Sakurai has done in Brawl he had "clone" characters diverge further and further from each other. So I think it'd make more sense for Lucina to take more after Roy than Marth at this point.
Robin, as Sakurai says is perfect fit (perfect representation of the series as Tactical RPG and being an tactitian class with huge potential of diversity in movesets), actually it was Robin, the main reason that would motivate me to officially or almost officially being more genuinely interested in Smash Bros and WiiU (which I never played and chance to see what is like, the only Nintendo home console I ever owned was NES), making smash bros having enough library games I'm interested (including backwards compability, making it extensive enough of exclusives I'm interested in).
But I agree with @Splatom @DreamyViridi @DivineStorm , however I don't consider her as bad representation of Marth, but a good representation as female even more being a nice bonus of an alt that got lucky, making it obvious who is the main newcomer, the star of the newcomer trailer...Robin (which I'm quite happy) - even some those who don't play Fire Emblem was interested in him/her.
@Tsurii897 He meant as a character. Chrom is simply a strong, kind, leader. Characters like Robin and Lucina have much more personality.
@erv That denied Falcon Punch felt terrible.
I really feel that Lucina could've done well as an alternative costume for Marth. It's a slight sacrifice to make but meant that it freed up another spot on the Roster. With the in mind I also (now) agree with Chrom not being unique or 'exciting' enough to be a character in his own right, but you never know, he may be an alternative 'costume' for Lucina. At the end of the video do they not say "No, you'll get it today" and that's him fighting alongside them. Or does that mean he's an Assist Trophy or a Final Smash?
So Lucina is basically Roy from Melee or fairly close, similar to MArth but focusing on different points of the strike with the sword then.
Robin has me excited.
This article should shut down peoples' complaints about Lucina, not encourage them. She's essentially an alt costume for Marth (with extremely minor differences) separated into her own character slot. This is like if people complained that the Male Wii Fit Trainer would be an option in addition to the Female one. Just because Lucina has a slot on the roster doesn't mean she's taking the place of a "more deserving" character. She's essentially an alt with her own character space.
Sheesh. Everyone worships Melee but there were way more clones in that game than in this one. Dr. Mario, Falco, Ganondorf, Roy, and Young Link were all clones in Melee. It surprises me that having one or two characters like that in Wii U/3DS (Toon Link and now Lucina) is making people complain this much.
Makes sense. =)
@Ioannis ah. WTF are you talking about. there is no seperate slot for the male/female versions. they are alternate costumes. also Zero suit and power armour samus as well as sheik/zelda are so different that they have to be separate for balance reasons.
I Imagine that Sakurai might be trolling and Chrom might be in as an alt costume for Marth or even ike. it could work
I just came here to laugh at Chrom's not inclusion.
"Even if two characters names and voices differ..."
None of the characters listed have different names - other alternate characters confirmed! Maybe Daisy, other Pikmin captains, Dark Pit?
@NibelsnarfNoob I think Rolf would be a better choice than Shinon, although he is somewhat useless early on in Path of Radiance if you train him up enough and use bonus XP he can become stronger than Shinon. As for choices I'd want the most: Nephenee (Sentinel), Boyd (Reaver), Rolf (Marksman) or one of the beast laguz (preferably Ranulf or Lethe).
Sigh... He made it fairly clear that if lucina wasnt her own character, no one else would have taken that spot. No one got cut to get her in...
Chrom, Ike and Marth are all male swordsman. Lucina is a female. That is why she got in, for gender variety. I'm sure he feels like women would prefer to play as a woman, and in the process, decided Lucina needed balance for some reason. There you go.
I really want this to happen with Dark Pit.
@DreamyViridi - Well said.
Okay Sakurai, now give us playable Wonder Red!!!!!!!
I'd rather Lucina be a skin and Chrom be playable, but I'm also fine with this. They made Lucina fight different than Marth, they could have done the same for Chrom.
Removes Roy from Brawl because he's a clone. Adds Lucina in Smash 4 because of one tiny difference in gameplay. Either Sakurai is trolling us or he's really forcing female fighters in Smash.
@argol228 - No no no. I didn't mean to say there are male/female versions of a particular character occupying different slots. What I meant was that I'm not particularly fond of the idea of having male/female equivalent within the same slot. Sakurai said that he was thinking of putting Lucina within Marth's slot, and I'm simply saying I don't like the idea. I do agree that ZSS/Samus and Zelda/Shiek should be put separately because of the moveset, but technically they are the same character. Nevertheless, all of this doesn't really matter, the game will still be awesome!
I took it as commentary of the personality of Chrom.
I remember the days when people were convinced Lucina would be playable with Chrom Ice Climbers style to emulate the FE Awakening pair up mechanic...
It's still not Shulk.
Why would he try and make them the same? A 'novice' character? Really? Why would I ever play as her now? And you made her seperate because of this little detail, so why isn't Mewtwo in with Lucario? That's so unbelievably stupid Sakurai.
@FlaygletheBagel No one had been praising it for that. Toon Link plays completely differently than Link. Not a clone.
I've always hated Marth. I could never get used to his style or his smash attack which more than not, lead to his own death. I'm liking Lucina so far. But I don't want 2 of them to be to be in smash.
@Haljalikakick64 Toon IS diffrent from link because of his STATS. Marth and Lucina have the SAME stats. So, yes, she basicly is a clone.
Its like trying to say "I didn't put this boring FE character in here because I already have a bunch of other boring FE characters in the game".
Basically if it isn't super humanoid and doesn't have a female version, its not making it into smash.
@Prof_Clayton You want Dark Pit included because of gender variety?
His explanation makes no sense. "Lucina is a sword user that shares exact stats and physical abilities with Marth." But he didn't include Chrom because "he'd just be another swordsman like Marth and Ike."
...what?!
Why include Lucina then? Doesn't the same rule apply? She doesn't do anything different than Chrom would, and Chrom is the better character! Or just replace Ike with Chrom if you're worried about having too many sword users!
I get it if you didn't include Chrom, but using the excuse Sakurai made, Lucina shouldnt be in the game either. The only difference between including Lucina over Chrom is because Lucina is female. Sorry, but thats not a good enough reason to waste a roster spot on yet another clone character.
I think Lucina was already done when he made the decision to exclude Chrom. Then he decided to make her a separate character after the fact.
At first I was indifferent, but now I'm very happy with his decision. Lucina as a clone isn't even too big of a deal anyways because of custom movesets.
"Of course it would be easy to churn out a bunch of similar characters, but thats not how i make games."
...then what are Falco, Wolf, Pichu, Toon Link, Lucina, Roy, Lucas, Dr. Mario, and Ganondorf? All they are are slightly slower, stronger or faster versions of other characters.
I'll give Sakurai credit in that so far MOST of the SSB4 roster is made up of unique characters. Lucina and Toon Link are the only two i can really think of that i'd consider clones. But saying he doesn't make games with similar characters is nuts, because almost all of Melee's newcomers were clones, and so were a few of Brawl's.
I like the roster so far for Smash 4, Sakurai. Please don't go clone crazy, now, at the eleventh hour.
Guys. Guys. Clearly Sakurai just wanted to see the smash fans bring some interesting "fanart" for Lucina.
@Prof_Clayton With Dark Pit's different personality and most likely slightly more agressive fighting style I hope that means Dark Pit is in, not an alt skin.
@Tsurii897 Thank you! I was just about to mention that.
Let's be honest the only reason she got in over Chrom is because Sakurai has been pushing the fact that we have more females now.
The reason he gave for including Lucina contradicts the fact he mentioned Chrom being just another sword user, here have another clone instead, because that's so much better.
I'm not even a FE fan, never played a game, but judging purely on the trailer and what has been said, Lucina isn't special at all, moveset wise.
This proves that first, we can be almost certain Lucina didn't take nearly as much development time as it is made just because ahe occupies a different slot, and that we still can't fully debunk the gematsu leak is real but just possesses outdated information (even though I've never been completely certain about it)
@Haljalikakick64 Fair enough, and I agree with you. I only used the Melee argument because I've seen people discredit the entirety of Smash 4 just because of the roster. That would be as silly as if I said Melee was crap because of all the clones. I don't really consider Toon Link a clone either, but I included him for the sake of argument, to concede that he had at least had a similar moveset as Link and that some might call him a clone based on that.
Now Smash Bros. has how many sword users? Bring 'em on!
I want to see Golden Sun representative Isaac to join the fray but reading the article makes him seem very similar to Robin from Awakening, a magic using swordsman (not exactly magic, but psynergy). Isaac is after all named Robin in the Japanese version of Golden Sun.
There should place for an adept swordsman as well, considering Lucina is almost a complete clone of Marth and Awakening does have a 2nd representative while Isaac would represent Golden Sun (an epic GBA RPG) for the first time as a playable character. Preferably with his weapon as Sol Blade which is THE Ultimate Sword in all games!
Don't disappoint me Sakurai!
I'm not mad that Chrom was a no no, but at least a character got in from FE:A.
@Haxonberik I was thinking the exact same thing about the gematsu leak. Unless Shulk and Chorus Men are for sure not in the game, I wouldn't count it debunked yet.
The real problem is is what was the justification of not giving Lucina her own original move-set it could have been done this only seems like the easy way out. What really scares me is if he has such a not justified reason for adding a clone even if he doesn't see it as one a clone is still a clone and what if he decides to do this again thinking its ok? I've been completely ok with every decision made for this game so far but this is not ok.
@Lasermaster123
Well in Japan Robin's name is Reflet so I think it could be ok and you know Sakurai if he can give a original moveset to Pac-Man, Little Mac, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer and so on he can totally give one to Issac. Hell, he could give a piece of toast an interesting moveset.
So is that the reason why Marth has been nerfed just to add a clone thats better then him? If Lucina is better then Marth then whats the point of even playing as Marth?
Once I realized you would lose if Chrom died, I left him out of every fight possible. And the ones he was in, I put him in the corner. So I'm not missing much.
Robin is a brilliant choice for Smash. My respect for Sakurai just shot up.
@JSaario
Yes I do know that, but in a way the description he gave of the "English" Robin from Awakening was seeming similar to me of how "Japanese" Robin from Golden Sun is. Although Isaac due to so many combinations of Djinn, weapons, summons and everything could have a very intense and amazing moveset if Sakurai does it.
I really want to summon Judgement or his twisted counterpart Apocalypse!! Even Meggido, other unleashes or Odyssey/Ragnarok are appealing! Not to forget Grand Gaia as well as Ninja and Ronin moves! He can obviously be very different and has amazing potential due to the sheer amount of possible attacks in Golden Sun! I am all hyped up again!
I don't care much for Chrom and even if Lucina is a near Marth -clone, I like her better because at least she's a girl, if there was three swordsmen guys from FE with dark blue hair it would just have been stupid. Obviously there could have been better characters to pick from Awakening instead of Lucina (imagine Tiki or Aversa...) but well, they tend to pick the more important characters and this is totally ok for me.
All I got out of that was "Chrom wouldn't be a unique character for Smash, so I added in a Marth clone!"
People are missing the point here. Lucina's model was made as an alternate costume for Marth. He didn't want to add Chrom because they would have to do extra work to make Chrom unique from Marth and Ike for "another swordsman." Lucina, apparently, uses mostly the same statistics and animations as Marth does, so they were able to essentially copy+paste Marth into another slot and adjust the hitboxes as needed.
Basically, Lucina got lucky and doesn't take up nearly as much development time as Chrom would have. It's a way of offering another character without diverting resources from other, more unique characters like Robin. It does come off as hypocritical, but there's not much we can do about that. (Besides that, I actually kind of like clone characters...)
Long story short, Lucina is an afterthought.
I'm fine that Chrom didn't make it since Lucina did, but I think he could've made her more unique.
To me, as a FE fan, it makes perfect sense. Chrom doesn't have anything unique to him, not to mention he's a pretty flat character. Probably the worst MC imo (probably going to be attacked by Micaiah haters here).
@xerneas
Hoping to see Tiki as an assist trophy at least. Unlike some of the other non-main characters she's actually important.
I agree with him completely but it would still be nice if they made a Chrom alternate for Lucina or Marth. That way we'd still be able to play as him.
Between Lucina and Chrom, I'll go for Lucina any day any time. Okay I admit, I like pentako chicks....
That's what I figured. Didn't want to make a new FE blue haired swordsman + Chrom doesn't really have that much personality, so he made Robin and then Lucina showed up as an afterthought after being made as an alt. No slots stolen (Slots can't be stolen anyway, nobody "Owns" a slot), and pretty good reasoning, imo.
Hey I'm super happy about Robin/MU and Lucina! Chrom will be in the next one...he will likely replace Ike.
are you serious? Chrom would be more different than how they made Lucina! putting girls in because they are girls is the definition of sexism! he could have promoted Lyndis, she would play drastically different and she is female so everyone loves her for that freaking reason alone!
Wait, so messing with the fanbase has nothing to do with it?
Just kidding though, I know Sakurai's trolling never goes beyond laughing about characters that haven't been included in the game, such as Chrom's line "I'll get my chance another day"... and this interview pretty much shows how disappointed he is for not being able to get Chrom in.
That said, yeah, he also said Miis and Animal Crossing villagers were a no-go for Brawl before getting them into the fourth game, which means we'll truly see Chrom in the fifth game, around 2020. Not to mention the mere reason Wii Fit Trainer even made it in.
I don't want to wait that long for Isaac, though!
[waits for @Lasermaster123 to nod]
now sakurai, explain to me why WALUIGI isnt a playable character in super smash bros 4!!!!
I find the reasoning in this to be somewhat backwards.
I get that Lucina can dole out even damage and Marth is more of a fencer but what's the point in dividing up what used to be palette swaps or alternate forms of characters with their moves and slots but then do this?
It's even insulting on Lucina's character for her to be a beginner's Marth. Lucina and Chrom should've been at least palette swaps of Marth and Ike respectively.
I'm glad they chose Lucina over Chrom. The Fire Emblem series is rich of female playable characters yet none have been playable so far, and now Lucina has made a change in that. (And no I don't really count Robin since he/she isn't canonically female but can be either.) Hope next time they choose a female representive who is not a clone.
^
@xj0462
To me, it makes sense. And not because Waluigi never had a game of his own (neither did Zelda, unless you count The Wand Of Gamelon for CD-i, and I know you don't), but... try imagining a Waluigi moveset. All I could come up with is a "trickster" character with moves based on cheating, like a Nintendo equivalent to Dick Dastardly... but that spot already belongs to Wario, whose confirmation (after Waluigi's and Ashley's usage of the Wario series emblem or, heck, after Waluigi's presence itself) is just a matter of time.
I mean, just look at Wario's special moves: aside from the up special, they involve running over foes with a motorbike, farting, and biting the opponent. He's the cheater among the fighters.
@AlexSora89 Isaac and Dixie for me. Gave up hope on Shadow this time around.
Come on now, let's not be rude to others — TBD
@AlexSora89 im sure sakurai(am i spelling his name right?) could come up with some kind of move set for waluigi, he did for captian falcon witch his move are purely made up for smash bros
@ModestFan93 oh yeah two obsucure characters who have appeared in ONE game deserve to make it, but a character who has appeared in MANY doesn't
get your logic straight!!!
@xj0462
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Falcon's moveset is the only thing that's left from the original idea for the first game, namely the only complete moveset for "Dragon King: The Fighting Game", aka the non-Nintendo-all-stars original fighting game it was shaping up to be. Which makes sense, considering Falcon is pretty much SSB's equivalent to Tekken's Paul Phoenix.
@AlexSora89 how did you know i didn't count zelda wand of gamelon and zelda adventure for cdi?
@AlexSora89 o rly? can you proove that?
@xj0462 ya rly. The original concept of smash used generic fighters, which looked suspiciously like Cpt. Falcon.
Considering Mr. Falcon lacked any sort of actual personality or even abilities, it is highly likely they recycled most of the moves of the the original fighters with him due to his body shape.
@Morphbug makes sense
I really hope Lucina isn't screwed competitively.
Lucina uses the same techniques as Marth, a fighter with whom I'm sure most of you are already familiar. I even went so far as to make their strength, speed, and special attacks almost identical.
Unless her sword damage and knock back is decently high when "balanced out" and her speed at least slightly higher, Marth will likely be better.
I find it sad because Lucina did have unique and stylized attack animations in Awakening. Her "being like Marth" in combat style isn't really actually possible, outside of the Assassin's Creed "memory through D.N.A." explanation Sakurai gave. On top of that Marth's move set was made up from scratch anyway for Smash, as the game he's from didn't have complex attack animations.
"... it would be really easy to make a game by churning out a ton of similar characters, but that's not how I produce games."
...
"Lucina uses the same techniques as Marth, a fighter with whom I'm sure most of you are already familiar. I even went so far as to make their strength, speed, and special attacks almost identical."
...
Sakurai for troll of the year.
I actually want Lyn to be playable. I always thought she was a pretty cool FE character.
@noctowl i know right
@shonenjump86 agreed Lyn is a good idea for a playable character in a smash bros game
"Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike"
And Lucina wouldn't be!
@Gaminguy010 Sakurai DID NOT remove Roy in Brawl because he was a clone, time constraints is what removed Roy. Roy is even located in the files of Brawl, along with Mewtwo.
@yoshisaredragon "I would have liked an explanation of why he put in Lucina"
...did you even read the article?
"However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!"
@xj0462 He's an assist trophy.
He should've just replaced Ike with Chrom.
Basically, Lucina is the exception to the whole "roster being decided upon before development began" thing that Sakurai said at E3 in regards to Greninja. Originally, it was just going to be Marth, Ike, and Robin, but then he created a brand new roster spot for Lucina later on because of the slight differences between her and Marth. That roster spot wouldn't exist otherwise.
@solcross Too bad ain't going happen old sport.
Damn sakurai you're a troll and a very good one.And meh i didn't care much for chrom anyway.
People quoting those two quotes from Sakurai and calling them contradictory make me laugh.
He said he didn't want to add a TON of clones! Yes there are a couple but that's it! Just like he said, there aren't a ton of them!
I have no problem with clones, as long as they don't overrun the roster. And they're not. So quit whining because of one freakin clone. Christ.
As long as we don't get the ridiculousness that was including Wolf as yet another Fox clone. Seriously you could tell that was a last minute inclusion to pad the roster. This time though Sakurai has made it a point to make the characters as unique as possible.
I can't say I'm not a tiny bit disappointed about not having Chrom, but hey, I've been hoping for either Chrom or Lucina, so I sure a heck can't complain!
In a sense, I guess I got both of the characters! even if one isn't playable.
I'm just glad that Sakurai explained all this confusing nonsense.
By this logic, Ike shouldn't be in the roster either. Remove him please.
Also, what's with the Lucina "Marth Clone" haters? Aren't most of the people who were against Lucina/Chrom, rooting for Roy to get in? I mean, Roy would've been even worse (as far as originality goes), because he's already been in a game!
@TwilightV Incorrect.
@TwilightV Nah ike is not going anywhere people like you who want him out,is going to have to deal with it.
@JellySplat "At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike."
Correct.
@midnafanboy And your point is... what? Just pointing out the obvious?
@Teejay It's not just because she's similar to Marth that people are mad, but she is definitely a fan favorite from FE:A and fans wanted her to be unique, I understand their frustration at this somewhat let-down.
I was kinda let down he(Chrom) wasn't going to be playable, but I kind of agree with Sakurai-san on this one, the more I look back on it, the more I see Chrom really wouldn't bring anything fresh to Smash. :/
Regardless I'm not going go play as Marth at all, this is my first Smash, so Lucina's similarity will be lost on me and I will experience her as if she's one of a kind, because for me, she is.
@Sherman Awesome. XD
I'm flat-out sick of Marth, he's not in the limelight anymore, YOU SKIPPED 1000 YEARS STOP SUPPORTING THIS CHARACTER.
Also, I know it'd be hard to craft a moveset for her, but I wanna see Tiki in SSB5.
@2Sang I never thought of custom-movesets as a solution to this problem! That's brilliant, the problem would truly be solved if Lucina had an Amiibo(Did I say that right?) figure.
@billychaos ...
@Captain_Toad Then you're dead to me. >:{
@Shiryu Lol!
As much as I loved Ike, because of differentiating among FE characters, I would've been fine with letting him go. That way we continue the trend of Marth from the first FE game and Chrom and co. from the latest, then Chrom could've been balanced to be stronger than Marth or Lucina, but a mix of the two (though I do admit, Ike is a much bigger contrast). I'm not a whiner though, I'll play with whoever Sakurai throws at me. I guess this means he's a decent lock for an Assist Trophy then...?
I don't think Lucina was worth it. Including her as a palette swap would've been enough. But I agree on Sakurai's opinion on Chrom. He really only stands out as a person, not as a fighter. Too similar to Marth.
But he should've considered Amelia (Sacred Stones) on General class, just for laughs!
@OrganSeller That's sounds like a lot of work for sakurai that he does not care or will not try to do.
He should have ditched Marth and replaced him with Chrom.
Fair enough. I was too shocked by Robin and Lucina being in the game, I didn't even care about poor Chrom at the end. Got 1 too many blue hair swordsman from a series as it is.
Overall I'm happy with the roster even before this news and I'll still be happy long after the next character reveal, even if it's not a Raichu (jealous of Pichu spotlight in melee).
Customizable moves make his reasoning for Lucina not make any sense
As for the Gematsu leak, I do believe that part of it was real inside info, but not all of it. Or maybe the leak is still real because Sakurai was the leaker the entire time. If that's the case, then that's the greatest trolling of all time.
Either way, I'm glad that this curveball was thrown because it puts us back in the dark going forward so we can be surprised again.
@SockoMario cant you still find some character files for roy and mewtwo in brawl thru hacking?
Sakurai just destroyed all the Chrom fanboys, lol.
@OrganSeller He will be in this game he is a villain and a well known one.And maybe sakurai changed his move set who knows, we can only wait and see.
As long as Sakurai explains it, it's okay with me. I was never remotely sad about the "deconfirming" of Chrom anyway. Just wanted the Gematsu Leak to be fake.
I've never heard that Nintendo have problems with limited character slots and how adding a new character kicks out other character. Can someone explain this to me?
This comments section is a nightmare.
@xj0462 Yeah.
Don't care much for the lack of chrom. The real issue is the clone character. I hate how he says he doesn't make games with identical clones. Yet goes on to say how she is identical to another character. I just find it to be kind of stupid. Oh well another slot wasted. I know people care about the difference in her sword damage as opposed to marth's, but not enough to warrant a spot on the roster. Thanks to her we will not be getting a different type of FE character. I just hope we don't get stuck wth three starfoxes again.
So he wouldn't be very different, but here's a clone with some different properties? Why not just give Chrom the different properties, then? Why do we still have two Links? This explanation is a little odd...At least Robin is fantastic and interesting.
For the record...I say get rid of "Link" and just make Toon Link "Link" instead. Just sayin...
@xj0462
What @Morphbug said. Check this out: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Dragon_King:_The_Fighting_Game
I had figured as much where Chrom was concerned.
Lucina is still too much of a clone for my tastes and still would've made more sense as an alternate costume, but at least she's different in one important way, and I do like the idea of a Marth who does uniform damage along the blade.
I hope this means that Sakurai is putting more effort into the alt. costumes this time around. We've had Daisy, Dark Samus, and Shadow Link as alt. costumes in previous games, but wouldn't be fun to have the shiny versions of the various Pokémon, Female Pikachu (with the heart-shaped tail), Dark Pit, Ocarina of Time/Twilight Princess/Skyward Sword Zelda, Metroid Fusion Samus, Evil Possessed Robin, the other playable Pikmin characters, and Shadow the Hedgehog as alternate costumes?
@LavaTwilight He's part of Robin's Final Smash.
@OrganSeller Jigglypuff was never a clone of Kirby. The only thing their movesets have ever had in common is their jumping ability
Lucina should have been another costume option for Marth...
I've always had trouble utilizing Marth in Smash so I like Lucina as a clone. However I hope she has an alt Masked version. I'm still holding out for Isaac as his synergy could differentiate himself from Robin. If not Isaac than his son from Dusk so there's no Japanese name confusion. I think a vehicle based character like Excitebike racer would be awesome. Marlo from Pushmo or Layton would be nice or at least a Pushmo stage. Nintendo has a great selection of puzzlers that have yet to be represented in a Smash title.
@TheMentalNomad Toon/Young Link have always surpassed Link in Smash.
@BulbasaurusRex Dark Pit can be made into his own character without being a clone of Pit very easily.
@whanvee Lucina didn't take a roster spot from anyone else. Her spot on the roster didn't exist at first. An extra roster spot was created later on in development specifically for her. If Lucina wasn't playable, that roster spot would not exist. Kinda like how Bayonetta 2 wouldn't exist if Nintendo didn't fund and publish it.
@SockoMario @Gaminguy010
Nah, Roy wasn't removed for being a clone. He was removed because he lacks relevance and roster justification. People need to face it, he starred in a GBA FE that wasn't even released in the West. And for those that found a way to play it, Roy's game is not as good as the two that came after his. Even as a clone, Lucina is the only female sword fighter in the game and that alone makes her unique enough for a roster inclusion. With Ike and Marth already included, Chrom would've had a tough time shining.
Roy was actually still playable in Melee when it was released in the West because of time constraints. They didn't have enough time to remove him. Sakurai gave the same reason for Ness making the cut when Lucas was added in Brawl. Now it makes me wonder which one of those is going to return this time around?
@piojito_O I love Toon Link and have always enjoyed the style. I never understood the hate during Wind Waker's reveal. Personally I find the ALbW design to be far too generic so I'm pleased they stuck with Toon. I find Link's moveset to be better suited to the speed increase with the shorter Links. "Normal" Link needs more weight and more power. The Gale Boomerang was useless in Brawl so hopefully there will be more of a push and pull this time around. If not, he would benefit from some sort of a stun attack because I find his smash attacks too slow and weak.
@3Daniel "However I hope she has an alt Masked version."
One of her taunts allows her to wear her mask. Pressing the taunt again takes it off. (This was confirmed in CroCro or Famistu, I forget which one.)
@SockoMario Yea but I'm still holding out for a masked version!!!! ^_^
Uh guys, nowhere does Sakurai say that Lucina is a better choice than Chrom, where is that idea coming from? Neither were going to be in as their own characters as neither was unique enough from a gameplay perspective. He said that Lucina was going to be an alternate costume for Marth, but he ended up giving her a few unique gameplay characteristics thus her becoming a 'clone' instead
Why are Marth and Ike even in this game? Nether has featured prominently in a FE game in ages and most people only know who they are because of Smash Bros. Meanwhile, if all my spotpasses are any indication, Awakening was a huge hit. It makes far more sense to replace Marth and Ike with Chrom and someone else. I’ll take Henry over Ike any day; he's just so affably evil. Also it'd be nice to have a "pure magic" type in Smash Bros instead of a brawler (everyone in the old games and Lucina) or someone in the middle (Robin/Avatar)
I'm still disappointed, but that's actually a good point. Intelligent Systems didn't even bother to give Chrom a special attack besides Aether, which obviously Ike already has. That said... if they can pull a moveset for Captain Falcon out of the air, I'm sure they could have come up with something for Chrom, especially considering all of his available classes.
@Splatom
I'd totally buy that. Chrom not having distinct characteristics is BS...Lucina is just a gender swap of Marth and all of the sudden she's hyper distinct? LOL, no. Not to say I dislike her, she's a great addition, but Sakurai's reasoning reminds me of when the MvC 3 devs were saying the Human Torch would take up too much processing with his flames and then we got Dark Phoenix
I was really hoping for a Magic user from FE:A, personally I was hoping for Tharja, but figured it would never happen. Robin is kind of lame, but oh well.. now if I could make him look like the character I made in FE:A, now then that would be awesome.
@AlexSora89
Yes, Isaac already missed his chances in Brawl and Melee! This is another chance to include him and his series Golden Sun! It is time for the Golden Sun to rise again! And looking at Chrom's inclusion as a final smash we can include Matthew for Isaac! Father and son attack together in an "attack of the clones" Or Felix instead.
And Sakurai is definitely trolling the fan base.
@Tsurii897 i mean its not that black and white, but its true.. they should have literally made lucina and chrom one character..That way, you can choose who you want to play as, get all the rep you want, and boom satisfied. I wanted chrom with his own moveset, but i am desperate enough to settle for just a skin.
@Cav44 i know :C i mean there are ALOT of things you can say to just kinda make his argument invalid like "chrom would be another FE sword fighter" and lucina isnt?? At this point i think they should just make lucina and chrom one character slot.
@R_Champ yea its just a bad reason.. honestly i just hope they add him in as a skin for lucina and make them both share a slot, because i kinda feel like this is BS and bleh.. sadface.
1: I really REALLY wanted chrom to be in smash. He was my all time high character that i wanted. Some people wanted megaman, some little mac, mine was chrom. And sadly i was trolled TWICE. The video made it seem he was not in, then boom, it made it look like he was in, then BAM.. he is just a final smash.
2: The explanation kinda makes sense but "another FE sword fighter" is also lucina, not just chrom. AND if he was planning to make lucina a skin, then why didnt they just decide to make chrom and lucina a shared slot with the same moveset and same abilities. its sad but at this point i just want to be able to play as chrom. i don't care if he is a clone. i hope they can try and do something, but its pretty hard at this point.
@TwilightV
How does that explain why Ike shouldn't be in?
I am still very disappointed, but I trust Sakurai and in the end when the game comes out, I will know that he probably made the right decision, after all, he hasn't disappointed me with the previous Smash games!
I dunno. I'm still of the mind that Lucina would be better off as a Marth alt.
I'm okay with it, since Lucina and Robin were both on my wish list, though I wish they had made her a more distinct character.
@JellySplat Yes, how does that not explain why Ike or any other "plain-old sword-weilder" shouldn't be in? If he's acknowledging the character has nothing unique about him, then why bother including such a character?
Fire Emblem Fans: Be happy that you have FOUR characters in the game. Most franchises don't have but 1 representative.
@Artwark So does Lucina... and Marth... what's your point
@TwilightV
Because, Ike was a Heavy weight sword fighter, Marth is a lightweight Sword fighter, and Lucina is a clone of Marth. All the spots are taken.
Not sayin' I didn't want Chrom, (quite the contrary) but yeah
But that doesn't make any sense at all seeing that Lucina was the one that learned her way with the sword from CHROM, her father!! If they wanted unique/female from FE:A they should have either put in one of the Manakete (Tiki, Nowi, or Nah), a Taguel (either Panne or Yarne) or even Olivia as a dancer.
@IceClimbers
It was said somewhere that all the characters are chosen in pre-production. So yeah she did take someone's slot. That being said I do get your point. Maybe this is one of those Chicken or the Egg things.
Lacks unique characteristics... like all fire emblem characters. I wish he had applied that logic before he started filling the game with so many boring characters.
"Instead of adding Chrom who would have only a few unique characteristics we added a clone"
that's what I got out of it lol
@SockoMario i know that, but waluigi SHOULD be a playable character
@AugustusOxy Yeah... and Im sure you've actually played the games and not totally upset and whiny because you didn't get what you wanted like 60% of Smash Bros fans.
So... Sakurai didnt like Chrom because it would play very similar to the other Fire Emblem characters, but instead he decides to bring Lucina who is almost identical to Marth in looks and moves, yea that totally makes sense.
So disappointed chrom isn't a playable character. It feels like he just needs to be there or it isn't the same. sigh
Show Comments
Leave A Comment
Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...