Developers: Wii U "Less Powerful than PS3 and 360"

"The graphical capacity of Wii U is 1,7 gamecubes + an android phone, according to the latest tests. Former understanding of 0,3 Xbox360s + three quarters of macbook pro is still causing some misunderstandings."
-emeritus developer

Until E3 begins, we won't know for certain how powerful this machine really is. With so many bits of info from various named devs (Ubisoft, Gearbox, etc) stating otherwise, though, it's hard to take the word of a couple of anonymous individuals from an unknown "major developer".

Nintendo.. Now your playing with power!

That slogan doesn't quite fit now does it.

Hahahahaha the last sentence was win. I doubt the words of those 'anonymous' people, that could be anyone! We'll just have to wait & see 'til E3 I guess. Nintendo would be pretty dumb not to trounce the competition for power in their system right now, though if the PS4/720 really do need a constant internet connection & there are no used games possible, then I'm gonna be sticking with the Wii U next gen.

Jeez those people need to, SHUT UP AND MAKE UP THEIR MINDS!

Yeah, we already know from notable developers that Wii U is more powerful than the X360 and PS3. These people are just trying to cause trouble.

I don't believe some people who won't say who they are and what company they work for. I will wait until e3 thank you very much.

Microsoft and Sony will remain anonymous

GOing to wait until E3 for final judgement, but if this is true... no reason to buy the system. Considering Sony/MIcrosoft will have new systems outs in 2013, this would be beyond dumb for Nintendo to do something like this.

@Cipher
Yes, this is very suspicious, looking at the Zelda and bird demos from the last year's E3, they look, at least, on par with everything i saw on the PS3 or the XBOX 360.

It would be funny if these anonymous developers were from Rare.
But seriously, as long as they have great content, it's radical with me.

Actually Aonuma said it might look worse then the demo
:l

So an anon appears from nowhere and he suddenly become front page on several videogame news sites.
What the hell is going on?

Those quotes don't sound like actual quotes. The "graphics are just not as powerful"? No tech guy would say that.

Almost everything else we've heard has Wii U being at least as powerful, if not much more powerful, than the current HD consoles. I think this a hoax, a bunch of blather or both.

Someone else posted this on GoNintendo, which I think describes this news the best:

"Anonymous devs: Not as powerful.
Vigil/Gearbox/Ubisoft devs: More powerful."

That just wouldn't makes sense! Why would that be the case when Nintendo knows the other companies will release even more powerful consoles? It makes the 3DS launch look like a blip on the radar!

I don't care for the graphics.

What i care about is the quality of the gameplay/music/controls in each game,that is what's most important.

Besides lower graphics doesn't make a game bad,look at VVVVVV,one of the best games on any system in my opinion.

i boelieve to anonymous cuz the 3ds and the wii already suck

@Shotgunryugan Same here...

Give me a game that's fun and I'll play it... no matter what system, no matter what it looks like.

DOOOOOMED! o_O

People don't hand out quotes like these without some vested interest or agenda, doubly true when they remain anonymous. So which development studio do these devs belong to, and why are they so confident that PS3/Vita development is easier and more capable than Wii U? That's left as an exercise for the reader.

So far, most developers are making statements that contradict this report. I'll wait and see instead of getting excited either way.

This is just a made up rumor. But if it were true, i would not buy Wii-U. I don't need another console which is on par or worse than the PS3 i already have. A gimmicky controller or another Zelda game doesn't make up for it, unless they revolutionize these things somehow unimaginably.

@11

LOL good one

Believe anonymous "developers," or several well-known, respected developers who are confirmed to have the dev kit and are planning on releasing Wii U games in the future.

I wonder which.

The news has been all over the map on this thing, so I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

That being said, I'm sure that Nintendo will be following the Wii's line of thinking and will try to have the all-around cheapest console of the upcoming generation, without quite as much horsepower as the others. And I prefer that, to be honest; they should focus more on what makes the console distinct (that controller and its gameplay possibilities) and leave the arms race to others.

Stop making so much sense, @warioswoods!

Crytek was disappointed with even the PS3 and Xbox 360, but they love the Wii U!

Anonymous developers are? Maybe Microsoft and Sony? Also, this just SOUNDS like a bunch of crap. All the other devs are happy and saying it has a ton of power, but 2 devs partnered up, or are the same developer, and are trying to avert attention away from Wii U. I mean, look, does it even SOUND like they are telling the truth? Its past time for saying this, they just want attention. But I'm telling you, until it's leaked, those developers will NEVER say their names or companies for fear of almost immediate death of their business.

Anonymous: "Wii U Not as Powerful as Corbie Dillard".

With the bad pub Sony and Microsoft are getting on their next consoles these days, it seems pretty fortunate timing that suddenly anonymous devs are just stepping forward to downgrade their competitions specs. And I thought only governments do this sort of diversion tactic.

I will never forget the stream of rumors before the reveal of Wii U at E3. One such "reliable source" said that the Wii U uses haptic technology - where the touch screen would appear in relief to the touch... Yeah right...

I'm waiting for Nintendo to release the official specs and put an end to this controversy.

Mmm. learn from the older hardware, I believe Wii U is not powerful as the other console. But Im happy with my 3DS.

the truth will come out at E3 by nintendo themselves and when it does, i will find out. the wii U has to be more powerful than the wii and i'd be fine with that, never mind be as powerful as PS3, 360.

at the end of the day, it is the games and third party support that does justice to a console. so far, nintendo have got some really interesting titles: darksiders, toki tori, aliens, assassins creed to name.

so it's not power, it's games that matter for me, and the more quality games on show, then the better.

irrespective of how less powerful the wii U could be.

'Wii U not as powerful as NES'
It seems to me like all the major developers say that it is at least on par with current consoles, with many saying it is more powerful, so these 'anonymous developers are likely talking bubbles.

Since they mentioned shaders, I'm inclined to believe the developers, since I was under the impression that nintendo's consoles didn't use conventional shaders. If a developer uses them as a measure of a console's "power", then nintendo consoles will come out behind even with incredibly powerful hardware, since the developer is probably talking about the power of the readily available graphics tools instead of what they can crank out with years and years of development experience.

If Wii U will be on par or even below the competitions last generation, and if they continue to threat Wii VC the way they do… i might consider dropping my brand loyalty.

It's just not worth it investing in a new console only to get a new Mario Kart and a Mario platformer...

I'm 99% certain quotes like this are aload of nonsense so wouldnt be too worried. Probably just sectret agents for Sony & Microsoft trying to put off potential customers

However hypotheticly speaking if they were to be true then there really is no point to Nindendo's new console at all and I wont be buying one

You heard them*, with the Wii U "The graphics are just not as powerful". You know the graphics, that thing people put in their game consoles. Very technical term, that's how you know these people are legitimate...

Seriously, the all "powerful" 360 and the PS3 came out 7 and 6 years ago respectively. This may come as a shock, but neither one of them has been cutting edge for years. It doesn't mean they're not capable of producing some dazzling effects, but try to remember it's all being done on dated hardware that's almost as old as YouTube itself. That's why they're both are so affordable now.

At this point Nintendo would probably have to deliberately go outta their way to produce a home console significantly weaker then the two that have been out for over half a decade. Just like how you would have to go outta of your way to find a computer built in 2012 that is significantly weaker than a computer made in 2006.

I highly doubt Nintendo are stupid enough to release a console less powerful than the PS3/360 when the successors will probably be out in a year or two which will be even more powerful. Also, we've had quite a few high profile devs saying that its either just as powerful as the PS3/360 or (significantly) more powerful than them so I don't see how two anonymous devs are trustworthy.

Nintendo's games and franchises will always be better then thier competitors in my opinion. The problem is, a lot of people look at the graphics and FPS of the other systems, and think that since they look prettier and more realistic, they are the best choice of system, therefore making Nintendo lose out on that sale. It really doesn't matter to me much, but if Nintendo would keep up a little better with the specs of the other systems, I would think they could really kick some butt. Particular with the Online functions.

i know i can't be the only one sick of these pointless rumors. why bother reporting this crap? just wait until the official specs come out, and stop believing "anonymous" reports.

The comments are from Xbox 360 or PS3 fanboys who are angry that they now have to develop for a Nintendo console

This isn't just a rumor anymore... Tons of developers are pretty much saying the same thing... Which is :The Wii will NOT keep up with the next gen consoles just as it was this gen.

If Nintendo pulls this crap again then I am officially no longer a NIntendo fan. I have went with it last gen but NOT two gens in a row. And the thing about this is that Nintendo being a gen behind even the last gen consoles isn't uncommon! The Wii was less powerful than the original Xbox.

And it seems that you guys have no idea what technical specs means for a system. POWER is the only thing that will distinguish the Wii U from the Wii. And the only thing that will make the Wii U "next gen".

@Nintendoftw "POWER is the only thing that will distinguish the Wii U from the Wii."

Apart from that whopping new controller and all.

The new controller is trash. I have to say it. I have do the exact same thing with a PSVita and a PS3. Nintendo should get smart and drop that garbage in place for 3DS/Wii U connectivity similar to sony's remote play. Some may call it stealing ideas that that's what keeps the gaming industry competitive

I can take a few guesses on why they wanted to remain anonymous. They are actually Sony and Microsoft

@Nintendoftw: Why not have both? Also, yes, the controller is trash. I'm sure you have tried the final product to back up your verdict

@Lordlz The idea in general is terrible...And the Wii U having the same controller as the Wii...? The Wii U will fail in impressing REAL nintendo fans if they continue on like this. They've failed us once with the WIi, and if any of you don't think the WIi was a failure either you've never played a PS3/360 (OR EVEN A PSP... Even it's games are on par with the Wiis') or you're just not a fan at all, just a blind fanboy. I am proud of NIntendo for their success with the 3DS but they are doing horrible in terms of impressing fans with the Wii, and it seems the Wii U will only be an extension of that garbage

I don't really care about this stuff,I just want good games like the ones that made me say "Screw the HD graphics,those games are awesome" when I was gonig to buy a new console.

I know a fair few game devs from 2 huge and one small companies -
I can not - and will not share any info with you:-
which is why I know, and they know, this is not true.
But I can promise you one thing...
WiiU has more 'power' than Chuck Norris.
You are all going to be happy in a few months.

@Nintendoftw: "If Nintendo pulls this crap again then I am officially no longer a NIntendo fan"

umm... you don't sound like a Nintendo fan anyway. The controller is not trash and will bring a whole new experience to gaming. I believe the Wii U will be an amazing system and definitely be more powerful than those two developers make it sound because I've seen comments from other developers saying that it was. Anyway, power does not make a great game, if graphics are the only thing you are concerned about then go watch a blu-ray movie or something...

Anyone else find it odd that the developers who say the Wii U is great are well known, and not anonymous, and the "developers" who say it's weak hide their identities? I wouldn't be surprised if these guys never touched the Wii U dev kits, or maybe... these quotes came directly from Microsoft and Sony themselves!

Or maybe the people who speak on-record are afraid that Nintendo will revoke their dev kits if they say "it's not that powerful" so they're puffing it up.

Just a thought.

@Nintendoftw: "If Nintendo pulls this crap again then I am officially no longer a NIntendo fan."

I got good news then. They have pulled this crap** again. You are no longer a Nintendo fan. You're now free to spend time at sites devoted to things you are a fan of.

With the power vested in me as a Nintendo Fanboy***, I hereby release you from all contractually mandated duties as a Nintendo Fan, now and forever. Go in peace my child.

(**Crap being defined as releasing a home console with a unique controller and graphical prowess equal to or slightly greater than previous generation of home consoles.)
(***Nintendo Fanboy being defined as one who owns a 360, PS3, or PSP and does not consider the Wii as a failure.)

Let's get our term straight. Power doesn't mean graphics. The Wii-U is more powerful than the 360 and PS3 but it may not have the graphic capablities of them. From what I've heard the system could run a 360 or PS3 game just fine and you would hardly be able to tell the difference. There won't be any problems as long as the system runs 720p.

Also, Nintendo should use blu-rays. They would lose a dollar or 2 in manufacturing, but they would make all that back when their games aren't pirated as easily.

I don't buy this. Sure the Wii U will be weaker than the PS4, etc., but I don't think it will be by much. Why are these "devs" (are these guys from Sony?) not showing their identity. They obviously want publicity, or even worse, are competitors playing dirty. Second, if that's true, then why does Vigil games say it's slightly more powerful, and Epic & Crytek say it's much more powerful. That doesn't add up. I believe Epic, Crytek, and Vigil games on this one. Not to mention, these might be underclocked prototypes. Nintendo may not be letting Vigil use their prototype's full potential yet. That would explain all these claims.

Utter bananas.
I'd rather take the words of actual developers who have already officially gone out and said what they think about the Wii U instead of anonymous sources. If those anonymous "developers" turned out to be actual devs, I'm willing to bet that they have some of the oldest Wii U dev kits. It just doesn't match up with what actual developers have said.

@Cipher
Either that, or the dev kits they have are dinosaurs compared to the newer dev kits that the more notable developers have.

@Koops3
He said that the art style will probably be different from the demo. He never said anything about the actual game looking worse.

@Nintendoftw
First of all, Nintendo had console-to-portable connectivity long before the Sony did. Second of all your idea of what impresses "REAL" Nintendo fans is seriously flawed. Generally Nintendo fans put quality of gameplay over looks (not that Nintendo lacks in the looks category; the Wii was the first of their consoles to be graphically behind the competition). I've played both the 360 and PS3 and was disappointed by both. Before you call me a fanboy, know that I loved both the PS1 and PS2. Both had huge, varied libraries of games. The HD systems of this generation have little on offer that doesn't involve shooting. The Wii, without a doubt, has the most varied catalog of games for this gen. With shooters, platformers, RPGs, adventure games, fighters, and racers all covered, plus a retro revival with games like Punch Out!, New Super Mario Bros, and Donkey Kong Country Returns. Add in the extensive Virtual Console selection and you have the kind of system any "REAL" Nintendo fan dreams about.

In case you'd like to make an argument for yourself, what longtime franchises did Nintendo fail to make impressive on the Wii?

Also, where are these "tons of developers" who say the Wii U is weak? Are there more of them than there are developers who say it's powerful?

"Wii U Not as Powerful as Wii."

This is bananas! Who should you belive? An anonymous dev or Capcom, Gearbox, Ubisoft, Vigil and EA who all say that its much better and more powerful!

@Nintendoftw LOL. Nintendo tried it already (@GC+GBA), simply no developer would do game for this set up. So Nintendo didn't promote WIi+DS even with the huge install base. My 2 cents: PS3+Vita will not do well. A tablet/display that comes out the box day one is the only solution.

Has anyone else seriously been paying attention to the progression of this kind of news? Last E3 we were blown away. Next, reports/rumors start coming in on how the WiiU is a good deal more powerful than Xbox 360 and PS3. Slowly we start to see rumors that it is as powerful and now less powerful. This could easily be Nintendo's own doing.

Nintendo wants to hit us all hard at E3 this year; totally blow us away. If everyone already knows what the console can do then how are they going to blow us away? I think Nintendo is planting these rumors to offset peoples' opinions about how powerful the system will be to keep people off balance. Of course, if I'm right, then WiiU is going to be one mad powerhouse of a console because that's the clincher, that is what they're going to be hitting us with is amazing visuals and they don't want us to be ready for it.

Guess we just have to wait till E3 gets here and we will see for ourselves. I just hope Nintendo puts up a good show and has strong third party support.

I don't play FPS games so I don't care if it had good graphics or not as long as it had good games.

Wii U not as powerful as Virtual Boy or Game and Watch.

...Tough crowd...

I really do agree with wariowoods. Although more power would be neat I think innovation is gonna be key in this console instead of just power.

@TrueWiiMaster Obviously you don't actually HAVE a PS3/360. I have bought every NIntendo system that came after the snes... EVERY SINGLE ONE. I have loved Nintendo ever since, and then they release this garbage called the Wii... Do you understand just how much of a failure it is? Oh and varied gaming categories? This makes it obvious that you don't have a current gen system. 45% of the Wii's games are meant for little kids and almost every game that you try to name that is comparable with current gen standards is TRASH (with the exception of any first party game). Mad World is garbage and I have better games than that on my Xbox/PS2... The Conduit is generic garbage. Does the Wii have Red Dead Redemption? Dead Space 2? GTA IV? ALL of these games are very unique. Even games like Battlefield 3/MW3 are unique, I can say this because I HAVE battlefield 3 and have played MW3. You can't judge any system until you have both experiences. I have them, and I can say the Wii is complete garbage. It is NOTHING like the traditional Nintendo game consoles like the N64 or even the gamecube. And it's hilarious because the Wii is weaker than the Xbox, heck the Wii is weaker than the netbook i'm wirting this comment on right now... It's processor is only 1.5 GHZ and ROFL the wii is also weaker than my PC from the year 2002... It's processor is clocked at 2.4 ghz.... It's ridiculous. and YES processing power matters a lot. In police chase in say GTA IV... Would you rather have really good AI cops that there could be 15-20 of them on screen at once.. Or bad AI cops who you can only have 5-6 on screen?

Heck I love my gamecube over the Wii and the gamecube is last gen.

@Alienfish We welcome all users here — if people want to criticise Nintendo, as long as they do it in a constructive and family-friendly fashion, that's fine with us. We don't expect every user to agree with every decision Nintendo makes; that's just not realistic. Clearly @Nintendoftw is a Nintendo fan (look at that username!) but isn't fond of Wii and Wii U.

Ultimately, dudes and dudettes, the most important lesson in video games — as in life — is this: do what you want and don't care what others think. You like PS3? Awesome, play PS3 and enjoy it! Love Wii? Great, have fun. Xbox player? Rack up that Gamerscore and be entertained.

@Nintendoftw
If the Wii-U is less powerful than PS3 and 360, i'm with you and skip the system, cause i'm tired of bad ports from 3rd parties. Anyways, it really doesn't matter if the Wii had bad specs, since it still had the best games in some genres: Xenoblade (RPG), Super Mario Galaxy (Platformer), Skyward Sword/ Twilight Princess (action adventurer), Mario Kart Wii (kart racer). I own the Ps3 and it just doesn't have anything which can compete in quality of the experience.

Thanks James, I feel all warm and fuzzy inside now!

Remember: we welcome everyone here at Nintendo Life, whether you are a fan of Nintendo or not, so long as you're contributing to the conversation at hand. If everyone agreed with everyone else and liked only the same things, this would be a pretty dull place to hang out :3

Wow o.0 its about the ga wait for it .... games not graphics

@Nintendoftw I understand where your coming from, I mean every game Nintendo made on the Wii was awesome, but the Wii as a whole was disappointing. I mean it was underpowered compared to the other systems, its online capabilities were horrible, developers gave up on it, it was the number 1 console for shovelware, there was a point where we would have to wait months just to get a new game for the Wii, and other than Nintendo there were only a few developers that actually put any effort to make amazing games for the Wii. Yeah I understand why you're mad you're saying things what some of us are thinking you're just saying it in an angrier tone. I mean I know I'm 21 and I love Nintendo games but I like other games too and sometimes I feel like playing something with a little blood, violence, and foul language (because I'm old enough, young people don't play these games until your old enough) but Nintendo is usually the console where you won't find many of these games so that tends to be a problem for me (and yes I've played Madworld,NMH which I totally love but what else is there). BTW people being a fan doesn't mean you have to be blind either, a lot of the writers here are fans of Nintendo but it doesn't mean they're blind fanboys who can't admit when Nintendo screwed up and that's why I love Nintendolife.

I live in a Nintendo bubble otherwise known as the mushroom kingdom. I don't see graphics I can only see fun and happy colors o_o mmm happy bubble..mushrooms..

I wish I could bottle up all these comments and nay saying until E3, but alas I don't have the memory on my computer. The truth is, the wii was perhaps, underpowered, but definitely NOT under-designed. The main reason why it disappointed a lot of gamers, was the fact that they didn't get a lot of multiplats on the system, which is partially due to the lack of graphical capabilities of the system. The other reason is the third party developers counted out Nintendo before the system was even out. So they didn't even try to design games for the wii.They placed their bets on the Xbox 360 and to a lesser extent the PS3, and missed the majority of the industry's market-share. Taking this into account, people shouldn't be only jaded by Nintendo's efforts but, moreso the direction the industry took this generation.

@Nintendoftw
You're right that I don't personally own either HD system, but I've played dozens of hours on the 360 in Modern Warfare and Halo, and admittedly less on the PS3. Even so, I have sufficient experience with major games on both platforms, and plenty enough information on their game libraries to be disappointed. And it's not just me. My brother has played hundreds of hours on both of the systems and also thinks the Wii is best for gameplay and variety.

Did you read your last post? The Wii can't be called varied because it has many E games? Seriously? Does that mean the PS3 and 360 have almost zero variety because most of the games worth getting on either system are rated M? Or were you actually saying that adults can't enjoy 45% of the games on the Wii because they're too childish? I'm pretty sure that's wrong... I'm an adult, and I've enjoyed quite a few games on the Wii, many rated E.

If power is so important that a system lacking sufficient strength can be called a failure, then doesn't that mean that every game before this generation is virtually unplayable? If the Wii is terrible because it sports Gamecube graphics on some games (certainly not all), then doesn't that mean that playing actual Gamecube games in this modern day would be an awful experience? And what about old N64 games? Power's not everything. It might make a game bigger, allow for better graphics, and put more enemies on screen at once, but it has absolutely no relevance on real gameplay. If it did, modern games would be massively better than old ones, but that's not the case.

You claim that almost every game on the Wii is trash compared to PS3/360 games, with the exception of 1st party titles, but there are some problems with that. First of all, the PS3/360 have almost no 1st party titles of their own, tending to focus on 3rd parties, while Nintendo excels at 1st party support. In other words it's unfair to exclude Nintendo's own games when discussing the Wii. Secondly, the Wii has more than a few 3rd party exclusives that, while not as popular, can equate quality-wise to the hits of the HD systems: Monster Hunter Tri, Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, Little King's Story, Sonic Colors, Red Steel 2, Boom Blox, Muramasa, Zack and Wiki, Trauma Center, and A Boy and His Blob. That's not all of them, but some of the best. Notice two things about that list: 1. there are more than a couple games on that list that have no counterpart on the HD systems period, and 2. it offers at least 5 different genres of excellent games. How's that for variety? Add to that the 1st party games and you have a system that can be called anything but a failure.

Do the PS3/360 have Super Smash Bros? Do they have Donkey Kong Country Returns? How about Skyward Sword? Super Mario Galaxy? No? How about some HD counterparts? None of those either? ALL of these games are very unique.

BTW, how can you get a more traditional game than a side-scroller played with the Wii remote held NES style?

P.S.- There is a Dead Space on the Wii, Modern Warfare 1 and 3 were both released on the Wii, and the Conduit is no more generic than Halo or COD.

@Faron Definitely this, that's the reason i will find it hard to not give Nintendo a chance in any Generation, as no matter what nonsense the 3rd party developers do (Wii is a GREAT example with all the shovel ware and bad ports) i still can't let go of the 1st party titles, i agree that people may be downplaying the PS3 (never EVER touched a Microsoft console) as it has Devil May Cry (although its more riding on the story than anything), Uncharted (never played it but talk says enough), GTR IV (loved it), COD (killing time, not really anything interesting here), BF3 (new to the series so this is a good change of pace from COD), Ratchet and Clank (pretty good, it definitely is fun), Skyrim etc

However even with those good games named which are among the best the PS3 had/has, i still think none of them reach the level of quality a Nintendo first party gives you, they just lack that feeling of a complete and/or unique game that Nintendo brings (even though the story keeps the same characters it actually varies with each installment of a series, especially for Metroid)
After all people i doubt any game that is an exclusive for PS3 or Xbox could have moved as many units in a bad situation like the Wii was in like Skyward Sword did (500k units in a couple weeks JUST for that game, after all the incoming J-RPGS were not on the menu as yet)
Therefore its usually a Nintendo console and a Sony console for me, (never paying for an online like xbox live especially since it charges and then still makes money off of adds and now with the manditory online for the next-gen this basically means you add on the price of xbox live onto every xbox you buy)

The question is, will the third party developers slum it on a weaker Nintendo console, just because it has an "innovative new control scheme" (which Microsoft or Sony will pinch if it proves popular).

Or are we in for another 7 years of scraps from the Third Party dinner tables. And by scraps, I mean NO Silent Hill, NO Resident Evil, NO Soul Calibur, NO (decent version of) COD, NO Battlefield, NO Saints Row, NO Metal Gear...

If Nintendo are really serious about coveting the hardcore crew, they need to think ahead.

An unknown developer why should I even bother it probably a exclusive developer for ps360 or a anti nintendo hater.

But seriously though, I am going to love the living heck out of my WiiU. Mario's mustache will have never looked so good. Kirby will actually look like a real life pink ball that's alive on the screen. The circle pad pro does not leave my 3DS, I'm prep'd for that controller big time. E3 E3 E3 E3 come softly.

As for me, I'll wait for E3 before I pass judgement on the Wii U, which is only two months away. We'll know basically everything then, as we'll only be four or five months away from launch at that point. In the meantime, we have some people saying the Wii U is less powerful than Xbox360/PS3, some saying it's the same and some saying it's more powerful, which basically leaves us still not knowing anything regarding its power.

I really don't care anymore. Nintendo has begun to prove that they know how to do things with the 3DS and if rumors are true about Sony and Microsoft's systems (no used games, always having to be connected to the internet) I'm going to be getting a Wii U by default, screw graphics.

I have just received information from an anonymous source that the Wii U is less powerful than the Atari 2600.

AND when I go down a pipe Mario is pooped out from the TV to the controller! Whoa man I'm excited

huho. sounds bad for nin...wait
this is rumors. this is speculations frpm unknown sources.

here i read in an unknown website,coming from a mysterious developper that the Wii U might not be as powerful, but it will be able to bake things and provide energy drinks on demand, via USB, for half the market price.

And watch the Wii U turns out to be an all-power house that'll make the PS4 and XBox 720 look like crap. xD

Prediction: Mole suit Mario. U Wiil see it. Mark these words.

I'll wait for the console to come out, but judging by Nintendo's history, I'm a bit concerned that once again it will be treated as a second-class console. Even with all the gimmicks of "innovative" gameplay, if most of the games are not going to be as good as the "Xbox 720" or the "PS4", then all this talk about being "innovative" and "fun" is not going to work.

imagine 16 years ago if it was announced the N64 was less powerful than the genesis or the playstation was less powerful than the snes.

The only thing that worries me about this console is that if it is underpowered how innovative can that controller be. I mean it's just a contoller with a touch screen in a way it's a giant overpowered 3DS. Your TV being the top screen and the controller being the bottom part of the 3DS.

Give me one giant sized 3DS, please!
You mean the WiiU?
Yes.

@TheHermit I LOL'd so hard I sprayed water on my PCs speakers. I'm so fired XD.

Nintendoo did purposefully restrict the capabilities of the Nintendoo Café (Yes; I am calling Wii U by its prototype name). Some people speculated that this is a move in order for the Café to "catch up" to its competitors later on.

This is laughably untrue. These quotes read like dumb teenagers making crap up. "Yeah the graphics just aren't as good. It's the uh...shaders (I think I read that word somewhere). I mean it does SOME stuff (high tech developers say "stuff right?) better, but that's mostly due to its more modern design."
It does some things better but only due to its more modern design? What could that possibly mean? These quotes are so childishly nonspecific that it makes them impossible to take seriously.

Not true. I don't believe. Rumors about this things horse power are all over the place so I'll just wait till E3 to know.

Any person with some basic graphic technical knowledge will know this article is a joke. "There aren't as many shaders" quote gives it away that it is trolling. The programmers have to program their own shaders !! They could make 10 shaders or 1000 shaders, it will only take more time to make more. The capabilities of the machine and how well the shaders are written determine how many can be used simultaneously. But saying the number of shaders available out-of -the box from nintendo or from any 3D engine running on WiiU have something to do with how powerful the console is graphically, is a big BS. It has nothing to do with how powerful the console is graphically ! Its like buying a car but saying its underpowered because on all the roads where you use it, there is a limit of 10 miles per hour.

"There aren't as many shaders" quote only tells us that the people saying this don't know anything about graphics, making games, or even what a shader actually is ! Now if they had said that the shaders are limited in the number of instructions and passes then ok, or even if they said we can't have many shaders simultaneously, that would have worked but this is BS. Just by looking at the tech demos from last year, one can tell there are no such limitations. These are just trolls BSing, don't take that rumour seriously.

@Nintendoftw

Are you the same "Nintendoftw" from IGN? Because you sound like him.

I own both a Wii and a PS3, and I'm so dissapointed by the latter I only use it for Blu Ray movies. The PS3 is just the same as the PS2 with fancier graphics. That's all. The Wii is one of the best consoles in existence. The controls revolutionized gaming, this statement backed up by the fact that Microsoft and Sony decided to incorporate them in their systems.

Also, you have to take into account that the Wii is not just motion controls. Virtual Console is a major part of the Wii, and it's amazing. There is a reason it's the most sold console from the last generation. It really is a great system.

@alphabingo1
I totally agree. Those statements make no sense at all. I think I'm gonna give these extremely reliable sources a pass.

Nintendo Wii was one generation behind in terms of power. But we know that the Wii is capable of producing graphics that were somewhat better than Xbox, Ps2, and gamecube. It was referred to often as a gamecube 1.5 in terms of power.
I will reiterate. The Wii is considered one generation behind. But, it is more powerful than all of the consoles of the previous generation, even if it is only slightly.
That being said, the Wii U will be on par, if not slightly more powerful (at least) than the current gen.
Nintendo would be, quite frankly, the dumbest company in the world if they were to come out with a next gen console that is not even capable of producing the same power as the current gen of consoles.
It will be at least just as powerful, and like I said, I'll put my money on it being equivalent to an Xbox 360 v 1.5, as opposed to equivalent to the next generation xbox/ps, but also as opposed to being weaker than the 360/ps3. To me, that sounds obsurd, and I refuse to believe Nintendo would sh*t all over their fans and gamers, by releasing a console that is not even current gen, AGAIN! So, two consoles (wii and wii u) coming out 6 years apart, neither of which are on par with 360/ps3? Yeah, right. That makes sense.

@alphabingo1
Thank you. This is what I was trying to say.

Wii isn't a failure, quite the opposite. It has great games and revolutionized gaming as we know it. The Wii U will do the same thing, regardless of its graphical power, which I'm pretty sure is better than the current generation, no need to worry.

This rumour states that the wiiU does not have as much shaders than the Ps3/360. Last time I checked the ps3 has less than 100 shaders while the gpu rumoured to be in the wiiU has 400+. Native 1080p is also a big step up from native 540p, seeing the difference between native 480p and 540p was so great. Devs like CryTek, who people thought would never praise nintendo have said that they are very impressed. Mark Rein, who people said would rather spit on nintendo than praise them has expressed his sincere enthusiasm about the wiiU. Now an anonymous source has said that the wiiU is not even as powerful as current gen consoles. The source hasn't even mentioned his company. Who do you rather believe reps from real devs or an anonymous source that could be a random person at starbucks posting BS rumours about the WiiU.

is nintendo changing specs just for the developers?

I'm tired of people that say that videogames without cool graphics suck,so if in the future we get a Barbie videogame with lots of graphics it will be awesome

This just in:
Every Wii U will come with a free miniature Zero Suit Samus robot that will make you sandwiches while you game.

Why would Nintendo make a console that can't compare power-wise with either of their rivals, especially when they're just about to jump themselves? When the Wii came out, it was comparable in graphical power to the PS2 and original X-Box. I don't buy this at all.

I doubt this rumor is true, Nintendo isn't stupid enough to release a second console weaker than the 360/PS3.(I hope)

I'll probably just get the wii u for smash bros

Well if i just get it for smash bros. i might as well get the other games while im at it. The only reason i actually wanted the wii u was for the extra content you get when you connect the 3ds and wii u smash bros

@MasterGraveheart Have you played a PS2 game lately? I have, and the graphics are certainly not as good as the Wii. Think about it - the Gamecube had the best graphics of the sixth generation, so if the Wii was at PS2/Xbox levels it would have worse graphics than the Gamecube!

@kevinkool123 - if Barbie looks good then count me in! who cares about games being fun?

Everyone complaining about graphics should realize one thing... in 10 years the best graphics we have now will suck, PS3 and Xbox 360 games will look bad, that's the way it will always be.

What game from 20 years ago would you rather play now? a fun one or a Genesis or SNES game with killer graphics? graphics do not hold up over time, gameplay does.

I think it's pretty funny watching people argue about what it's better...
It's not "power" that matters... but QUALITY really does!
Sony was successful back in the years with PS1 and PS2... but anything other than that was a total fiasco.
Even Microsoft is doing a great job!
Nintendo gave us great hardwares and softwares for almost 40 years. So please, don't say bull.

@James I dont appreciate the Nintendo bashing the Nintendoftw is doing. Thats all I am saying about that. Crap like this makes me not come on this site anymore because i believe if all of us are nintendo fans, we WOULD NOT be talking like this about the new console.

Anonymous Developer 1: Microsoft
Anonymous Developer 2: Sony

@TrueWiiMaster I was talking about a real Dead Space game. All of the CODs on the wii fail compared to other counterparts. And you give the Wii too much credit in comparison to the gamecube... You do know the Wii is only something like 1.5x more powerful right? I mean I can't stress power enough... Why weren't the best games of this gen (ie red dead redemption, Elder Scrolls: Skyrim, or even Grand Theft Auto IV/ upcoming V) on the Wii? Tell me, I mean power doesn't matter right?

@Assassin87 I am talking about the Wii... And it's not Nintendo bashing it's Wii bashing. Any real Nintendo fan would know that Nintendo made a HUGE change when they made the Wii, and it's for the worse. If Nintendo models the Wii U tactic after the success of the Wii then Nintendo, in terms of consoles, will have lost complete respect among the real gaming community. NO games don't have to be violent to be fun, look at mario. But games do have to be up to date... And the fact that the Wii is less powerful than a last gen system should be an outrage among Nintendo fans.

Hah! Guess no one remembers when IGN built a prototype Wii U on speculation.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Wii U isn't as powerful as the 360 or ps3, but the software is where the real power lies. The Wii U still has a unique controller and less power would mean lower price. That's really what won people over with the Wii.

@Nintendoftw
Obviously Red Dead Redemption, Skyrim, and GTA 4 weren't on the Wii because it lacked the raw power to play them. HOWEVER! Calling those "the best games of this gen" is assuming too much. Yes those games needed more power than the Wii has to run, but did that make them better than games that CAN run on the Wii? Absolutely not. I'm certainly not saying they're bad games. They're definitely some of the best of this generation. But so are Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, Monster Hunter Tri, Skyward Sword, and various other games that are exclusive to the Wii. The power of the HD systems is needed to play power-hungry games, but that is in no way relevant to a game's quality. Come to think of it, many call Skyward Sword one of the best games EVER! Let me ask you a question. If power is so all important, why has the Wii had so many great games? In case you'd like to respond with "it hasn't", here's a short list: Mario Galaxy 1+2, Punch Out!, Monster Hunter Tri, Skyward Sword, Xenoblade, The Last Story, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and Red Steel 2. And that's a SHORT list. It could be much longer. I'll say again, the Wii is in no way a failure.

BTW, I don't follow Dead Space, but my understanding is that though the entry on the Wii was a spin-off, it was still a very good entry in the series. If anything, the fact that a good Dead Space can be made for the Wii further proves my point that power isn't everything.

I love the Nintendo Wii, I own every Nintendo console (and a few others) and the Wii has an amazing library of games, where else can we have such a wide variety of games? and not just the games made by Nintendo...Endless Ocean? nothing else out there like it. Tiger Woods with motion plus? no other beats it, I'll take the perfect controls over HD anyday.

So jump ship already Nintendoftw... I for one am looking forward to the new Nintendo revolution all over again

I love the Nintendo Wii, I own every Nintendo console (and a few others) and the Wii has an amazing library of games, where else can we have such a wide variety of games? and not just the games made by Nintendo...Endless Ocean? nothing else out there like it. Tiger Woods with motion plus? no other beats it, I'll take the perfect controls over HD anyday.

So jump ship already Nintendoftw... I for one am looking forward to the new Nintendo revolution all over again

@Nintendoftw
This is to your last comment, #124. I didn't see it before.

There you go again, saying "real" Nintendo fans should call the Wii a failure because it wasn't technologically on par with the competition. That's not real Nintendo fans. That's you. Real Nintendo fans would pick up the the Wii remote and play some Nintendo games. Real Nintendo fans would play New Super Mario and Donkey Kong Country Returns and reminisce about the SNES (if they're old enough to do so...). They would marvel at the colorful and varied levels of Mario Galaxy. They would knock out King Hippo for the umpteenth time and they would explore every corner of Hyrule. And most of all, they would enjoy Nintendo games.

(This would apply to any true gamer as well. The "real gaming community" that you're referring to is the one that recently arose atop online fps games. In other words, casual gamers. Any true gamer, even if they didn't play Nintendo's games, should respect quality software.)

Ummm, the Gamecube was the most powerful last gen... Or if it wasn't, it was very, VERY close. And the Wii is stronger than the Gamecube... I think you should check your math.

I want two things from the Wii-U: backwards-compatibility with the Wii (software and hardware) and new software/gaming experiences. I have no doubt that Nintendo will deliver on both of my desires.

Bad news! But let we all wait untill E3.

Loses all credibility once the quotes came from an anonymous developer.

"Will the games be any good?" is the question of the day for any new system.

The only reason they're saying that is because of the graphics. THE FREAKING GRAPHICS! IS THAT ALL U CAN FREAKING FOCUS ON! U SOUND LIKE MY NO-LIFE FRIENDS! "Oh, the graphic this, the graphics that" JUST SHUT THE HECK UP! ENJOY THE GAME FOR ONCE! Jeez! You didn't hear people complaining about the "graphics" when "Pong" came out waaaaay back when. Y r u complaining now? Quit the whining.

I hate graphic whores... All they care about is how good a game looks rather than the experience. The anonymous developers are either
A. Microsoft/Sony ( who have never touched a developers Kit ) Or
B. Someone who hates on Nintendo
If the anonymous developers were so respected, then they wouldn't have been anonymous in the first place. Other developers are very pleased with the WiiU though, so who should I believe? Two dumb a$$3s or people who have worked with the tech? Nintendo is always unique, which is why no one will ever rain on their parade.

Well obviously this is just three gamecubes taped together. What I'd like to know is how many bits this thing is!

I figured out what they mean! In Sony and Microsoft are building new consoles. Because they have no originality for names or ideas their new consoles will be:
Sony: Xbox 360
Microsoft: PS3
They will release in late 20XX.
You heard it here first!

A lot of systems have come and gone over the last 25 years. Many of those systems were more powerful then the Nintendo system at the time. Despite all of that Nintendo has been the constant. You have to deliver the content players want. That has been the major difference. People will literally by there system to play the first party games. That can't be said for the other major players.

IMO, PS3 and XBOX compete with one another. Nintendo is family oriented. That is what they do best. The other two...they just do not have what it takes to make those family games.

@Nintendoftw @TrueWiiMaster The Wii was not a bad console. While it surely should have been a little better in the processing & online departments, it was not bad. If the 1st party support was the only good games on it, I'm ashamed of you for not noticing stuff like Sonic Colors. Yeah, some games were limited by the Wii. Anyways, to get things started: Will the Wii U be that bad? Who are these anonymous devs? Or are they devs? Maybe that's why they're anonymous. Derp, they're fanboys, the big N's competitors, or biased devs. Listen to Epic Games. I can trust them. Plus these prototypes can be underclocked and all sorts of things that can limit all sorts of crap. Second, was Halo 2 crap? Combat Evolved's remake got positive scores. Sure it may have been outdated, but it still holds up well. It still plays well. It still has varying level designs, etc. It doesn't make it crap. Third, just an FYI, there is no official clockrate for the Wii. It's rumored it is around 730 MHz, and the Xbox is confirmed to have a clockrate of about 730 MHz. Jeez, do your research. The GCN used a 480 MHz CPU. OK. That's over. Still, you can freely voice your opinion. Just be sure not to blindly deny things, etc. Stop arguing. Games/gameplay make the system/games; graphics do not make games good, because Battlefield 3 would win hands down, and while it's good, that is certainly not the case. Also, I've heard of the Conduit, and that does not sound 100% original. Halo is more original.

"Trying to catch up with Sony and Microsoft is irrelevant beyond belief at this point. Nintendo's road diverged a long time ago, and now it seems wiser to simply carry on ahead."

This is a quote from John Dean of CVG - and one I kinda agree with. Yes, Nintendo desire the support from 3rd parties, strong online and media support (such as Netflix).

At the end of the day though, it's clear that Nintendo follow a different creative and ideological philosophy than Sony, Microsoft or Apple.

Even then, I still doubt that Wii U is 'weaker' than PS3 and Xbox 360, as there have been so many developer claims to the contrary. Can't wait for E3.

Wow why is it when it comes to everything Nintendo there's always a bunch of radicaly different opinons like there's NEVER a stright or general answer to anything Nintendo does unless you actually hands on with it yourself.

You know what else is shady about this is how all these so called developers are anonymous all of a sudden, developers never had problems speaking out about Nintendo before so why now?

Complete blueberries get this out of my face

The Wii U has some mighty big Pegasus Shoes to fill. The Wii has been Nintendo's greatest console ever.

@TrueWiiMaster YES that does make them better..> It's because they have more to offer and more content to enjoy, along with online play to keep the game alive. Sure all of those other games are fun, but when you actually play a true current gen game you would know it's like comparing a PS2 game to a PS3 GAME

@TrueWiiMaster Playing Nintendo brand games doesn't make you a fan... Calling anything with a Nintendo label slapped great only makes you a fool who is easily scammed.

@VincentV Wrong... The wii's processor is 729 mhz while the xbox's was 733... And plus the Xbox was overall more powerful and way better with shaders.

@TrueWiiMaster Quality software isn't made for game systems that were made in 2006 and use hardware that was cutting age back in 2001... The real gaming community has nothing to do with online fps games --. And plus I notice most of the people here always bash online fps games. Have you even played one? No even more so, do you even own one? --

Ridiculous. In the words of Judge Judy, "If it doesn't make sense then its not true."

Contradictions and inconsistencies abound. Funny how devs who came forward about WiiU being more powerful than the current gen have been named but the ones that say otherwise choose not to...? Either they are stuck on older dev kits or this report is complete fabrication.

I'd have no problem if the Wii was the least powerful of this gen but still could keep up with competition and still could handle ports of games, but no rofl. The Wii is to weak the handle even the weakest games on the PS3/360...

I love how because s/he is anonymous s/he is titled a fanboy/biased towards Sony/Microsoft.

Kudos to those in these comments who have supported their opinions, rather than simply pulling the 'It's a troll' card.

Also, I honestly can't believe that a gamer cannot enjoy a game solely based on its gameplay. It's about the experience. Sound, graphics, story, gameplay all work together to create the game. They don't stand separate from one another. If one is superior to others, then the game will suffer as a whole.

XBOX:OG>wii>Gamecube>N64>SNES>NES>VirtualBoy
Graphics wise&IDK
The question here is: Is the Wii U going to have better graphics than XBOX:OG or is it going to fail like the others?(dont take it seriously)
I love my XBOX(MY first system) btw if only it had lasted as long as ps2. & For people saying gamecube having better graphics than XBOX:OG go play Halo or JSRF and then ask yourself I've should've done my research.
& i never knew until now(via.nintendoftw)the XBOX:OG had better graphics than the wii.♪TO LEGIT TO QUIT♪.
(typed this on my 49erRed 3DS)

The CPU had better be a quad-core, and clocked at least 2.0Ghz !!!

Seems legit.

What these anonymous devs post doesnt matter at all. Just before or just after WiiU realease how it compares with 360/PS3 will be public and everybody will be able to take this into consideration (or not) as a factor to buy it or not.

@SanFrisco9er

Have you played Metroid Prime? In 2002 it came out, in 2012 it looks outstanding and not even out of date. Halo can't compare. (if you think I'm trying to start a Halo vs Metroid battle you're wrong) Just stating the facts.

@Nintendoftw
Ummm, no it doesn't? I'm not sure how to respond to someone blatantly saying their favorite games are just plain better than mine because the have better graphics... I disagree with you 100%, but I can't change what games you like best. Like you said, the games I mentioned for the Wii are fun. Isn't that the most important part of a game? And BTW, I prefer PS2 games to PS3 games. They had more variety, more creativity, and were just plain more fun (at least for me).

I don't think everything Nintendo ever made was great (looking at you Wii Music), but the definition of a Nintendo fan would be one who likes Nintendo and the products they make. You're telling me that if I was a "real" Nintendo fan I would shun the Wii purely for its lack of power, rather than base my opinion on the games it has. That's far more flawed than saying Nintendo fans like Nintendo games.

Any truly real gamer wouldn't hate the Wii for its graphics. They would love it or hate it for its games, hence the name GAMER, one who plays games. The reason I brought up the online fps fanbase is to describe the group who would lose all respect for Nintendo for not producing the most technologically advanced console on the market. In other words, a group well-known to be leaning towards 360 and PS3 would say they don't like Nintendo... Shocker... Like I said, a REAL gamer would play the games, not just complain about tech. And no, I don't own any online fps's. It's just not worth it to me (what with online games having expiration dates). But I've played plenty of Halo, COD, and Unreal Tournament online with my brother. I've played more than enough to know what the communities are like, and how casual these games really are. Have you ever played an online fps?

Huh. If that's true about the Xbox being slightly more powerful than the Wii it brings up an interesting question... Why do most Wii games look better than almost every Xbox game? Is it because quality development matters more than power?

@Nintendoftw
In response to comment #154.

The Wii may not have the biggest games from the HD systems, but don't forget that they don't have the biggest games on the Wii either.

@SanFrisco9er
I've played Halo 1 and 2 and both have pretty ugly graphics. The textures look blurry and the characters, when they aren't masked, are some of the ugliest of the generation. Now, I'm not comparing Halo to modern games when I say this. I'm comparing it to the Gamecube. It's strange that the Xbox was the most powerful system last gen and yet didn't have the best graphics. If you don't believe me, try playing Metroid Prime 1 or 2 or Starfox Dinosaur Planet. And don't forget, often called the best looking game of last gen, Resident Evil 4 looked best on the Gamecube.

@TrueWiiMaster One thing GameCubers never seem to grasp (or can't determine from a screen shot) is how massive the levels are in Halo. Metroid Prime has tiny rooms and corridors separated by doors you have to blast and wait in front of while the next little area loads. In fact if you rush from room to room too fast in Metroid Prime the game will freeze--which sadly happened to me more than once.

@Gamesake
I don't know what to say. I was just playing Metroid Prime and, though some areas are small, some are pretty huge. I never had the freezing problem you mentioned, nor have I ever even heard of it. Also, despite my love of the Gamecube, I have played both Xbox original Halos. The levels are far from being big enough to excuse the poor graphics, and many textures and environments are reused over and over again, not to mention the downright awful faces on every unmasked human character. Metroid Prime, on the other hand, has extremely varied areas, from volcanoes to frozen tundras to jungle-esque valleys. Each looks entirely different and sports unique enemies.

Besides, even if everything you said was completely true and Metroid Prime didn't have the above-mentioned characteristics, it wouldn't change the fact that it looks significantly better than Halo.

@SanFrisco9er I've heard from people that the graphics card is much better than the xbox360's graphics card.

Should've known HALO will and always have their fair share of haters.
@SomeBitTripFan No i haven't played Metroid Prime(& i never will) because i was to busy playing DOOM3, Ninja Gaiden 1&2, Farcry Instincts 1&2, Burnout 3, The chronicles of Riddick, Conker live & reloaded(dont start with ''the original was waayyyy better'' cuz it wasn't), The Prince of Persia(XBOX version in my opinion is the best),GTA S.A & V.C, The Warriors,etc, etc, etc, etc. Did i mention Mortal Kombat Armegeddon? I played hunters those that count?
@TrueWiiMaster If thats true its because XBOX:OG has been dead for like 4 years and i believe its a last/past gen console. Its sad that you are actually comparing these two when the one you need to compare it to is the XBOXkinect360(XBOX:OG's papi).
@Assassin87 Sorry I'm not a technician.

@SanFrisco9er
What? I was comparing the original Xbox to the Gamecube. Why is that wrong? Both Gamecube Metroid Primes look better than Halo. And I'm not a hater. I enjoyed Halo 2, Halo 3, and ODST, especially Halo 2.

BTW, you're really missing out if you never play Metroid Prime. It really is one of the best sci-fi fps's ever created.

@TrueWiiMaster If you enjoyed Halo 2, you should play the original Halo: Combat Evolved. It's way better--not graphically, but it is better.

@SanFrisco9er If you ever decide to play Metroid Prime 1 and 2, splurge on the Metroid Prime Trilogy so you don't have to put up with the horrid GameCube control scheme. The Wiimote and Nunchuk were a Godsend to that series. The GameCube version wouldn't allow you to move and aim at the same time!

@TrueWiiMaster What are you talking about...? Just get a PS3/360... You have absolutely no idea and no experience in anything you are saying.... Just because a game has better graphics means NOTHING. I like the games because they are engaging, fun, and etc. All the games you stated ONLY have good gameplay..IN order for a game to be excellent it must be good all around. Gameplay, sound, graphics, story, and all. ALL of it matters, this isn't 1983.

@Gamesake I actually have a gamecube and xbox.... Saying the gamecube has better graphics is like saying the xbox 360 has better graphics than a PC... Later xbox games are comparable to the average xbox 360 game -_-

@TrueWiiMaster Calling games like Halo and Unreal Tournament (Wth?) casual just shows that you don't know anything about real current gen gaming. PLAYING a game is nothing like HAVING the game. I played saints row 2 and thought it was amazing. Then I bought it and it actually is garbage.

@TrueWiiMaster First of all I never said it was wrong I said it is sad & am talking about the last paragraph of comment #162 & I have Metroid Prime Hunters for the ds so am basically not missing out & opinions are not facts last time I checked.Is there any other games other than the Prime series & RE 4 that can actually be compared with HALO 1's graphics even though it was released like 2yrs before prime, 4yrs before RE 4 and over a decade ago.Mech Assault 2 wasn't very popular but I'am certain it has better graphics than all the games on the Gamecube and it also had some cool online play(example of a legit opinion).If you post something else that says GC has better graphics than XBOX:OG than you're blindly in love with the GC.It's like saying the DS has better graphics than the psp when it obviously didn't and you're saying as a proud ds owner(for example) '' have you played phantom hourglass(my favorite), spirit tracks, MP Hunters, PKMN, etc.''Which current portable do you think has better graphics?I'll say vita even though am a proud 3DS owner, I know you'll say vita aswell.& dont hate(looking @ comment #164).
@Gamesake I'll skip on that just because i don't have a wii. I would love to see a 3ds Metroid FPS tho or even a side scroller like Fusion & Zero mission.The XBOX for me is like the NES is to retro/classic gamers.

And PS2 beating the PS3? I love my PS2 but you have no idea what you're talking about. Especially saying the ps3 has no variety.

@TrueWiiMaster How old are you?

Halo released 11/15/01
Metroid Prime (which is VERY different from hunters) released 11/17/02
A 1 year,2 day difference

Here's a youtube comment I found by Kenshin0011 that I think saids it the best:

"FACT: This next console (WiiU) WILL output in full 1080p graphics (PS3 and 360 only run in 720p)
FACT: The console has PS3/360 ports that developers themselves say run just fine on it (so then the idea of Wii U being less powerful is out the window automatically).
FACT: The console will be backwards compatible with Wii.
FACT: The controller has dual analog, triggers, four buttons, and is comfortable and light according to most reports. The touchscreen just adds more to it. It doesn't take away from the normal control scheme."

So fellow Wii gamers don't even swat this negative feedback because it's obviously BS it's just here to give the the WiiU haters some little bit hope that WiiU will fail, it's just so pathitic!!

@Nintendoftw
I'm not gonna buy either system anytime soon. Not only do I still have plenty to play on my Wii, especially with Xenoblade coming out this Friday, but any money I would think to spend on them would be saved for the Wii U. Besides that, neither system offers anywhere near enough games I want to justify dropping hundreds of dollars on the console. As far as my lack of ownership affecting my play experience, I don't follow. I've played games on both system, but those experiences should be disqualified from reference because they weren't from my own copy of the games? Does that also apply to renters? How about people who bought games only to sell them later? Are their experiences also null? I got the same multiplayer experience from Halo as any owner, just for less time.

Skyward Sword excels at every category you mentioned. Not that your categories are even applicable to games. Saying a game needs great graphics, sound, story, and gameplay to be excellent automatically removes every retro, puzzle, racing, and fighting game, and almost every platformer, from the running. What does that leave? Only shooters (when they actually have a great story), RPG's and adventure games can be called excellent? Not to mention where old games fit in...

The Gamecube had many games that looked better than many Xbox games. It wasn't a rare occurrence. The gap between the 360 and PC's is FAR greater than the gap between the Xbox and Gamecube. But don't worry. The Xbox wasn't TOO far behind the 'cube.

Oh yeah. I like the games I mentioned because they also "are engaging, fun, and etc."

P.S.- When did real gaming change to become "real current gen gaming"? And if the real gaming of today isn't the real gaming of the past, how can we be sure which really is real gaming?

@SanFrisco9er
Metroid Prime Hunters is not the same as a full-fledged Metroid Prime console game. If you like sci-fi fps's like Halo, you really should at least try a Metroid Prime.

You're right that opinions aren't facts. What was that referring to?

First of all, Halo 1 AND 2 were both outdone by Metroid Prime 1 and 2's graphics. Not just Halo 1. Other games on the Gamecube that looked better than Halo? Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, Resident Evil Zero, Starfox Adventures on Dinosaur Planet, Star Wars Rogue Squadron: Rogue Leader 2, Legend of Zelda Windwaker and Twilight Princess, and F-Zero GX. Some of those would be hard to compare to Halo due to the difference in styles, but I'd say they're all more than comparable to either Halo, in addition to RE4 and Metroid Prime 1 and 2. In my opinion (OPINION, not fact) Pikmin 1 and 2 were comparable to Halo as well.

Why does saying the Gamecube has games that look better than Xbox games make me "blindly in love with the GC", while you saying Xbox games look better than Gamecube games doesn't make you "blindly in love with the Xbox"?

Oh, and yes, the Vita has better graphics. I don't think it's the better system, but it does have more horsepower. How you can seriously make a comparison between DS vs PSP and Gamecube vs Xbox would be a better question. Even if you don't think the Gamecube had games on the same level as the Xbox, you can't deny that they shared more than a few multiplatform games. There was never a huge discrepancy between versions. The DS could never handle a port from a full-sized PSP game, just based on the tech difference.

And what on earth does my age have to do with anything?!

@Nintendoftw
In response to #175, which I missed the first time.

I said I prefer PS2 games over PS3 games, not that the PS2 itself was technologically better than the PS3. I'm not a huge fan of shooters (I play them in multiplayer, but rarely on my own simply because of my preferences) and most PS3 games rely heavily on shooting. Killzone, Resistance, COD, Battlefield, and even Uncharted are all shooters (though I understand Uncharted is more than a shooter). The games that aren't shooters often have counterparts, often better counterparts, on the PS2. Few would argue that the PS3 has been better for RPG's than the PS2, and there's absolutely no question which was better for platformers (it wasn't the PS3). My brother, again, a big Sony fan (used to be an Xbox fan too, but that's another story) claims the Metal Gears on the PS2 were better than MGS4. Street Fighter 4 is awesome, but the PS2 had Soul Caliber 2 and 3 Tekkens. If you know of some PS3 games I haven't heard of that lend to the console's overall variety, please share!

@TrueWiiMaster STOP bringing up games of the past. ITS THE YEAR 2012. NOT 1983. Story matters. Graphics matter (It always has mattered rofl, what do you think the bit wars were). Gameplay matters. If a game have every bad but gameplay then it would be considered terrible. The way the game plays is the most important, but without the icing which is graphics, sound, story, etc... THE GAME WILL SUCK. Did Pong have good gameplay? Yes. Good sound? Nope. Good graphics by today's standards? Nope. Good story? Nope. Just good gameplay. Compare Pong to a game that sucks by today's standards... Duke Nukem. Pong was good back in 1978... Duke Nukem sucks in the year 2012. Which would you rather play...?

@TrueWiiMaster And Metroid Prime 2's graphics fail compared to Halo 2... I remember renting both of them back in the days and I enjoyed Halo 2 a lot more than Metroid Prime 2. Only real reason really is because I was like 8 or 9 and MP2 was too complex. Metroid Prime series is great but I have all 3 last gen systems and graphically the Xbox annihilated the competition. Look at Just Cause, Chronicles Of Riddick, etc... Gamecube and PS2 didn't stand a chance against the xbox's graphics

@TrueWiiMaster Little Big Planet, Red Dead, LA Noir, Heavy Rain, BF3, MW3, huge variety of downloadable titles (This by itself destroys PS2 in terms of variety), Dead Space, Batman arkham city, etc. GET a PS3 and then you can judge it invariety of games. PS2 had variety, sure, but I have BOTH and can say that the PS3 overall is better and has a hell of a lot more variety. And plus online shooters are amazing, especially BF3, you should actually TRY one before saying they are all generic. I have BF3 and have played MW3 and they are completely different games.

@TrueWiiMaster Little Big Planet, Red Dead, LA Noir, Heavy Rain, BF3, MW3, huge variety of downloadable titles (This by itself destroys PS2 in terms of variety), Dead Space, Batman arkham city, etc. GET a PS3 and then you can judge it invariety of games. PS2 had variety, sure, but I have BOTH and can say that the PS2 overall is better and has a hell of a lot more variety. And plus online shooters are amazing, especially BF3, you should actually TRY one before saying they are all generic. I have BF3 and have played MW3 and they are completely different games.

@Nintendoftw
Okay, then I'll stick to modern gen games, despite you referencing several old games while telling me not to.

First of all, did you read my post? What about all of the genres that are excluded from excellence based on your standards? Can a puzzle game never be excellent? Is Gran Turismo 5, one of the best looking games of this generation, less awesome because it lacks a story? You're categories for excellence are seriously flawed.

Secondly, by your logic, every game that came out in the first couple years of this generation is now bad, or at least worse than it was. Why? Because the graphics have aged. Modern Warfare was a great game, but does it have "Good graphics by today's standards"? Not really. If it were released right now people would call it garbage because it looks so much worse than Modern Warfare 3. Likewise, Modern Warfare 3 will be outdone in a year or two. Does that mean that it should suddenly lose 2 points off its scores?

Though I said I wouldn't mention old games anymore, just humble me for second. Try comparing a game that was more than just two paddles and a ball to modern gen games. How about Super Mario Bros? How does it compare to this gen's games? It had great music and great gameplay but lacked a deep story and doesn't have HD graphics. I'd say it still compares favorably. What do you think?

@TrueWiiMaster You're purposefully trying to misinterpret the reply for the sake of the argument. Puzzle games obviously don't NEED stories, racing games obviously don't NEED stories. And are you seriously considering that the early games of this generation are now considered old...? Wth..? OLD is last gen, NOT current gen.

@TrueWiiMaster YEs super mario bros has all of those things, and was great for it's time. But to be honest, it sucks horribly compared to super mario galaxy... It's an awesome classic but it just isn't even comparable to what we have now.

Now expanding on that note we all know that the average current gen game is better than the average last gen game. Now Nintendo comes along with a system that uses last gen technology and produces games of last gen quality. That means that the average Wii game is worse than the average PS3/360 game. Be honest here, would you rather have Grand Theft Auto III or Grand Theft Auto IV?

I say that because the Wii can't run GTA IV... It can run GTA III...

@Nintendoftw
You're telling me that at age 8 or 9 you were playing M games? Wow. Anyway, you're saying that at that young age you were already capable of saying which games had the best graphics? You don't think your bias towards which games you liked (Halo) could influence them looking better than the games you didn't like (Metroid)? The Xbox didn't annihilate anyone.

And didn't you just tell me that unless one actually owns a game they can't truly experience it? And yet you rented Metroid?

When did I say all online shooters are generic? Like I said, I've played every Modern Warfare. I would've played Battlefield, but the developers chose to block local play.

Surely you're not telling me that the downloadable games (not talking about retail games here) are on par with full releases on the PS2? If the PS3 has such great variety, please point me to platformers other than Little Big Planet. Platformers as good as Jak and Daxter, Sly Cooper, and Psychonauts. Please point me towards RPG's as good as Kingdom Hearts, Xenosaga, Final Fantasy X, and Dragon Quest 8.

Except for LBP, Batman, and the downloadable games, and maybe Heavy Rain (I'm not really sure what genre it fits into) those were all shooters. I'm not saying they're not unique from one another, but they're all still in the same genre. When I was talking about variety, I was talking about having every genre well-covered, not having an excellent variety of one genre.

I don't need a PS3 to know what games it has, and that's all I need to know to discuss its variety.

@TrueWiiMaster Well lol I didn't only rent Metroid... I have Metroid Prime 3 Corruption. It's fun but, even still I like Halo 2 better because of less complexity and the fact that it never gets boring because of the constant action. I also have Metroid Prime Hunters, and you said that's not a real prime game? You obviously don't have it.

@TrueWiiMaster THose weren't all shooters -_-. LA Noir isn't a shooter. Red Dead isn't a shooter, it's a sandbox game. And yes, a lot of PSn's downloadables are ps2 quality. This is why you should actually HAVE the system to be able to debate it.

@Nintendoftw
I don't consider current gen games old. I was just applying your logic. If, in order to be excellent, a game must have up-to-date graphics, a game considered excellent at the beginning of this gen is no longer excellent, because its graphics are no longer up-to-date. Likewise, I didn't misinterpret anything, at least not on purpose. You said in order to be excellent a game needs excellent graphics, sound, gameplay, and story. I'm just saying that's only applicable to specific genres, not games in general. It's also relative. If Uncharted is excellent because it excels in every category, doesn't that mean COD and Battlefield aren't excellent because their stories aren't as good as Uncharted's?

"We all" don't know that. You do, but you've yet to convince me. Also, quality doesn't rely on HD graphics, and Nintendo has sound, gameplay, and story (where applicable) down. Personally, I don't want either GTA. I want a new Donkey Kong, Mario, or Zelda, each offering as much or more quality than anything ever produced in the gaming industry.

P.S.- If last gen games aren't as good as current gen games, and it's not just about graphics, but actually BEING developed with more power, then why are so many PS2 games being ported to the PS3 with HD graphics? It seems people still consider them great games, despite being made for an outdated system.

@TrueWiiMaster Oh and having a lot of the same genre means no variety... So you saying not to point out platforming games because PS2 has many more means the PS2 has no variety. That's the logic that you use right? Since the PS3 has so many FPS games?

@TrueWiiMaster Graphics don't necessarily have to be the best, they only have to keep up, and the beginning of this gen and what we have now... Well there isn't a huge difference.. It's still the same gen. And donkey kong has nothing to do with the conversation -_-. Okay I will say it another way: Would you rather have Donkey Kong on the SNES or Donkey Kong on the Wii U?

@TrueWiiMaster And last gen games don't lose their quality. they are just in a different level all together. Current gen gaming will also be on a different level when the next gen systems come out.

@Nintendoftw
Umm, I said Metroid Prime Hunters is NOT comparable to a full-fledged console Metroid Prime (I think you misinterpreted). And liking Halo better due to difference in complexity isn't really objective... Many liked it FOR its complexity.

LA Noir and Red Dead both have a lot of shooting. I don't know too much about either one, and clearly they're not just typical shooters, but I'd still call them shooters nonetheless, in the same way that I'd call GTA and Uncharted shooters. There's more on offer than just shooting, but it's a major part of the game. The way I look at it, if you frequently use guns in a game, it can be classified at least somewhat as a shooter.

I don't have to own a PS3 to see what it has on PSN. I can look on my brother's. Though there are some full games there, few are really as great as great PS2 games, and many fail to even compare to a full retail game.

@TrueWiiMaster LA Noir doesn't have a lot of shooting... What are you talking about...? It's a detective game. Red Dead is a sandbox game similar to GTA IV, and they aren't just shooters. Just because a game has shooting in it doesn't make it specifically in with the shooter genre.

@TrueWiiMaster Wrong again, YOU have to have a PS3. YOU don't have one. I have a PS3 and a Wii, and have had a Wii since 2007 and a PS3 since 2011...

@Nintendoftw
What? I was saying the PS2 had many great platformers while the PS3 has very few. Platformers are far from the majority of games on the PS2, unlike shooters on the PS3. The PS2 represents just about every genre well, while the PS3 seems to ignore a few and focus on a couple. You're response would only work if the PS2 didn't also have tons of RPG's, shooters, racers, fighters, etc.

Asking between Donkey Kong Wii U and Donkey Kong SNES seems a little unfair. Not because the tech makes the new one better, but because I've played the SNES versions several times, and would love a new game. Similarly, I'm leaning towards preferring DKCR on Wii to the SNES entries, not because of graphics or anything that stemmed from technology, but from the higher difficulty it offers with the same excellent formula. I love it because it was made well, not because it has better graphics.

@TrueWiiMaster ANd then you say the majority of games on the PS3 are shooters...? Get out. You can't have an opinion on the argument unless you actually own both systems. Playing and owning are two different things. As I said before, i played Saints Row 2, loved it. Bought it, hated it,.

@TrueWiiMaster Anyone from 1990s would love to have a PS3 over an SNES... There's a reason for that. BEcause of hardware. Hardware makes better games. Games like God Of War and Dante's Inferno are good NOT only because of the formula and gameplay, because of all the power it takes to run it. PS2 couldn't handle to the amount of monsters on screen that the PS3 could with God Of War 3. Same with Nintendo systems... Except Nintendo made a stupid move by making the Wii which uses the same processor as the gamecube.

@Nintendoftw
I know they're not just shooters, that's why I said "they're not just typical shooters". If I was wrong about LA Noir having a lot of shooting in it, I apologize. The video I watched had shooting in it. And before you say mistakes like that wouldn't happen if I had a PS3, stop. I wouldn't buy GTA, Red Dead, or LA Noire even if I owned one (though LA Noir could be a possibility if its focus is on investigation).

Also, like I said, "The way I look at it, if you frequently use guns in a game, it can be classified at least somewhat as a shooter." It might not be just a shooter, but it's still somewhat a shooter.

And about my being unable to comment on the PS3 because I don't own one, could I use my brother's opinions then? He's owned a PS3 since 2010, and we've both owned Wii's since 2006. He agrees with everything I've said.

@Nintendoftw The majority of games on the PS3 are shooters.

@TrueWiiMaster Rofl. You can't speak for someone who can't be here to back it up. I have all of the Wii's top games, thing is I stopped buying Wii games after I got a PS3. I have had super smash bros, twilight princess, mp3, Bully, etc. I loved all of them, but the problem is all the 3rd party games SUCK compared to what i have on my PS3. Games like XenoBlade are good... By last gen standards. I have all 3 last gen consoles an I can say I enjoy playing my Xbox/Gamecube over my Wii.

@Quake Is it that the majority of games on the PS3 are shooters or the majority of games that you have are shooters...?

And plus not only is the Wii a level below the competition because of the horrible hardware, the games overall suck compared to last gen consoles too. The PS2 even kills the Wii.

@Nintendoftw
I can look up the PS3's library and tell you based solely on that what genres most of the PS3's games are. Ownership has no relevance on what games are available on the console. And btw, I can have any opinion I want, whether you believe it to be justified or not. Just like how you can say that games made for the PS3 are better than games made for the Wii. Totally unjustified, but still your opinion.

Man, you are definitely right about that. I would've loved to have a PS3 back in the 90's. You know how much that futuristic tech would've been worth? I would've been rich enough to buy a PS3 when it launched in 2006! People back then would've loved the PS3 and if it had been competing 20 years ago at today's price, it would have dominated the industry. So what? The Wii would have done that too. Even just plugging the Wii into last generation would have been huge. It's game library would probably be very different, but it would've been huge.

@Nintendoftw
You prefer last gen games over the Wii, and you say that's proof that the Wii is a failure. I say I prefer last gen games over the PS3, and you say I'm wrong. Do you see the contradiction?

Most professional reviewers say Xenoblade, SSBB, Mario Galaxy, Monster Hunter, and Skyward Sword are great by ANY standards.

So you're saying I can't use my experiences with someone else's PS3 and I can't use testimonies from a PS3 owner? And that I can't determine what genres are prevalent on the PS3 simply by looking at its library?

I'm not gonna argue about the PS2 vs the Wii. The Wii is definitely NOT killed by the PS2, but the PS2 was great. I personally prefer the Wii, but I have no qualms with the PS2. Oh, and if you were saying the PS2 beats the Wii graphically, you should get your eyes checked.

@TrueWiiMaster Games made on the PS3 are better in the sense that they actually take power to run them and have a heck of a lot more content. I can tell you that ANY wii game could be ran on the Xbox, a last gen system. And that is a shame.

@TrueWiiMaster I'm not saying that, but those testimonies are unreliable because relative to me you could be lying, especially since everyone I know that has a Wii isn't a gamer or uses it for parties and nothing else.

@TrueWiiMaster Oh and PS2 doesn't beat the Wii graphically of course. But the gamecube is on par with the WIi and the Xbox beats out the Wii graphically. I told you to check out Chronicles Of Riddick, it looks like a 360 game. Or maybe Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory

@Nintendoftw
Few games anywhere have more content than Monster Hunter Tri, Xenoblade supposedly has a 60 hour campaign without the sidequests, Skyward Sword is the longest Zelda ever, and Brawl has 35 characters, a full story mode, hundreds of collectibles, a level editor, and online multiplayer. Where in these is the lack of content compared to PS3 games?

@TrueWiiMaster Ugh... Really? That content is nothing... Just look at Elder Scrolls: Skyrim... HAs more content than all of those combined. Maybe Little Big Planet... Really any AAA ps3 game has tons more content. Wii's disc limit is what? Over 7 gb? Lol the PS3's is 50 GB... It would be laughable to say Wii games have as much content.

@TrueWiiMaster and @Nintendoftw Console wars XD
Look both systems are great in their own way yes the Wii itself was downright bad because of its hardware limitations and lack of third party support but it had some amazing games you can't say that its games were bad just because it had no HD and SNES games are still amazing to the point that people still play them today. I don't have a PS3 but I have a 360 which shares the same 3rd party library and yes those games are amazing and they do have good graphics and better AI etc. but that doesn't automatically make better games it just makes a better system because there have been some horrible releases on both the PS3/360. @ TWM Red Dead is amazing and it sold like hot cakes but it is not automatically a shooter just because the main character uses a gun that's like saying Zelda is a hack and slash game because Link uses a sword. More power in a system just makes the system itself better not the actual games both systems have amazing games and they have crappy ones it just depends on how they're made.

@Nintendoftw
Trust me, I'm a gamer, and I love the Wii.

Though I could be lying, so could you. I generally take someone at their word online until the prove themselves false. As far as you know, I've never touched a system other than the Wii, and as far as I know you've only ever played the PS3. Neither of us can really prove anything. But if I wanted to lie, I would've said I owned a PS3 myself, and added strength to my argument. The truth is I don't. My brother does, and he shares many of my points.

I don't have to look up Chaos Theory. I've seen plenty of it already. Chronicles of Riddick looks great, but I can't say it looks better than everything on the Wii. I mean, consider Metroid Prime 3 and Monster Hunter!

@mamp But wouldn't you agree better hardware makes for better games? Like Red Dead, would it be the same without the amazing sound quality, large landscapes, ragdoll physics, and huge amount of content that is only possible on powerful systems like the ps3 and 360?

@Nintendoftw Have a good collection of PS3 games. What they have for sale on the market in terms of diversity still doesn't compare to the Wii.

@Quake Lol still doesn't compare to the Wii...? You do know the vast majority of Wii games are for toddlers are little kids right? Count how many My Horsez is on the Wii.

@Nintendoftw Do you hate GTA 3 and Vice City now because they're last gen do they suck now because they're last gen? I think they were awesome games you make it sound like games can't be good unless it's got power behind it. Does that mean Red Dead is gonna suck in the future cuz it's last gen all I'm saying is yes more power adds more to a game but it doesn't automatically make it more amazing than the games that are weaker. Operation Raccoon City came out and it's got power and graphics and it still got horrible reviews it doesn't mean that ORC is better than RE 4 just because of the power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szJZf8SqgJI&feature=plcp&context=C4bf26d9VDvjVQa1PpcFP7TOZce9BMJRSFYWBUBaVHOD3qUQ62DvA%3D

Heres proof of my Wii, made this video when I was a kid

@Nintendoftw
Skyrim is one example of a huge, nearly endless game on the PS3. What are some others? Don't forget, that additional 43 GBs is only present on dual-layer discs, and I doubt every game uses them, and much of the space on the discs is taken up by HD graphics and HD sound. Since the Wii doesn't use the same level of HD, it requires less space. In other words, disc size is not quite as relevant as you might expect to how much content a game has.

As for other AAA PS3 titles with apparently hundreds of hours of content, which games are you referring to?

@Nintendoftw and @Quake The Wii does have a vast majority of games but I think Nintendoftw would like to see more M rated games I know I would. Look I love Nintendo games to death but I am also 21 yrs old and I can handle a little blood and guts and bad words here and there (and if you're young don't even think about it) but we're not gonna find many of those types of games on the Wii, the only good games I found were No More Heroes, House of the Dead Overkill, and Madworld. I'm not saying Violence makes games better but I'm saying that I'm not a child either and I wouldn't mind playing on a console that can give me that option if I ever wanted to play an M rated game.

@TrueWiiMaster Little Big Planet is endless. AS well as any other PS3 game that ahs downloadable levels.

@Nintendoftw
On your video (and that video doesn't actually prove anything; for all I know you posted a link to some random person's video and said that was you. Like I said, we can't really prove anything here.) You mention that the PS3 had more high-scoring games while having fewer overall releases, but how many of those high-scoring games were from the same franchises? Specifically, how many were COD? 5? The Wii generally doesn't rely on spammed franchises (while many of its franchises have many games, few have more than 1 or 2 on the Wii).

@mamp
If you want a more mature title and believe that gore and swearing aren't necessary in such a game, try Monster Hunter, Metroid, Sin and Punishment, Red Steel 2, any of the Resident Evil ports, and Muramasa. These all offer more mature themes/ more challenge for a seasoned adult player.

@TrueWiiMaster COD is a minority. Lol most franchises don't spam.

@TrueWiiMaster Yes but those are very few. PS3 has many. As well as it's fair share of E rated games too.

@Nintendoftw
Now we're talking about quality of content. What's better, professionally made monsters (very unique monsters) so big you need to team up online to have a chance of winning, or user made platforming levels. And realistically, do many people play LBP for hundreds of hours? I mean, do you even get anything from beating these fan-produced stages? Or are they just more play time?

@Nintendoftw Sorry for not keeping watch over the games that are "for toddlers [or] little kids." Generally I only keep watch over games that have relevance to my preferences.

@TrueWiiMaster You do get achievements. You also unlock more tools for level creation.

@TrueWiiMaster Yeah professionally made monsters right..? I am sure Xenoblade's side quests are just as small as LBPs

@Nintendoftw
COD isn't so much the minority as the biggest offender. Like I said, few games on the Wii have more than two entries. Can the same be said for the PS3? Not really. The following all have 3 games on the PS3: Resistance, Uncharted, and Ratchet and Clank. Assassin's Creed has 4 with the 5th coming this year. Infamous might have 3, depending on how you consider that weird vampire thing (maybe 2.5 games?). This may not seem like many, but these are some of the PS3's biggest franchises. These franchises, plus COD but not counting Infamous, account for about 20 of the PS3's high-scoring games.

@Nintendoftw
Actually, I was referring to the additional online-only monsters in Monster Hunter, and they are anything but small. I don't think Xenoblade has any multiplayer. From what I've heard, Xenoblade has some pretty great sidequests, intertwining with characters, the storyline, and other sidequests. What are LBP's great sidequests?

Yeah, those rewards for playing user-generated levels seem kinda paltry. I mean, if you really enjoy making levels or are a little obsessive about trophies, it could be worth it, but the lack of progress would just make the game boring for me.

And what great E games does the PS3 have? LBP and Modnation? Both are outdone by New Super Mario Bros and Mario Kart.

@TrueWiiMaster
I have all of those games, you talk to me like IDK any of these games. just because I have a 360 doesn't mean i don't like Nintendo games I'm probably just as much of a fan as you are. All I said was that if I wanted to play Something with some Violence and blood i'd like the option to do so.

@TrueWiiMaster My wii library off the top of my head= most of 1st party software
okami, TvsC, NMH 1,2, MH Tri, wii RE 4 and 0, madworld, Bully, rayman origins I don't just blab i know what I'm talking about.

@mamp
Sorry if I came across as condescending. It wasn't my intention. I was just recommending some games I thought you might like if you hadn't played them, based on your post wanting more mature games on the Wii. I never once said you were less a fan than me.

@ TrueWiiMaster sorry i guess i got a little mad and what i meant was if i did want to play some games with sex, drugs, blood and violence there's not that many for me I am not a console fan I am a gaming fan and I don't care what system or what genre as long as i think it's amazing and that's what gaming should be about. TBH i never thought I'd like some of the games on the Wii or 360 until i tried them and they were amazing like Rhythm Heaven or Skyrim but having an open mind about gaming has led me to discover some great games out there.

BTW I REALLY wanna play Some MH tri but my Wii data got corrupted and I had to reformat my Wii and I lost EVERYTHING and I was just too discouraged to try and get everything back again. I was a sad panda that day.

@mamp
I couldn't agree more. I love Nintendo for the games they make more than for the systems. I loved the games on the PS1 and PS2, and, as I've said, enjoyed Halo 2 on the original Xbox. If I enjoy the games, I'll want to get the system to play them. I just don't enjoy the games enough to buy either HD system.

@mamp
And wow... That stinks. My Wii's been having issues lately (it can't play Brawl for some reason), but I'm hoping it'll last at least until I can get a Wii U, and that I'll be able to transfer over my data.

@ TrueWiiMaster You probably need a lense cleaner it usually won't let you play dual-layered discs until you clean it out it happened to me when I bought the Metroid Prime Trilogy.

@mamp
I was planning on trying a lense cleaner at some point, but strangely enough the problem only seems to apply to Brawl. My copy of the Trilogy works fine, but my Wii can't even find Brawl.

@TrueWiiMaster Do the other primes have Wifi compalibility, yeah so no thanks.

The ''fact'' am referring to is on the last sentence of the last paragraph of comment #166.

OMFS Starfox!? really? Zelda?Dont even mention Star Wars Rogue Squadron 1 & 2 because the both get easily posterized by night of the old republic 1 & 2 & Star Wars BattleFront 2 and thats a fact.Starfox & Zelda are cartoons you're starting to go off subject, am not debating on which console has the most bueatifully vibrant settings, characters,etc. Am talking about which console has the best graphics as in which looks more realistic & for FF idk nothing about that I only played one on the ps2 and it looked pretty good.F-Zero too I havent played, seen, nor bothered playing but am guessing it's a racing game(correct me if am wrong) and if it is a racing game the XBOX exclusive series PGR and the multiplatform game Burnout 3 that always looks better(graphicly(realistically)) on XBOX consoles easily wins. RE4 & Zero, play DOOM3. Metroid Primes play DOOM3 again or riddick. & finally Pikmin °—° now I can't take you seriously but you still have to play JSRF.

Am just trying to get the point across. I do love my XBOX but C'mon gamecube having better graphics than XBOX is obviously not true.

Do you have to make it that complicated?I know the DS is/was superior to the psp, I was talking about graphics.I can't deny that & You can't deny the multiplatforms looked better on the XBOX.

I asked for your age because I want to see if we are in the same age.& is halo 1 & 2 the only XBOX games you own? My brother bought a used gamecube from gamestop on 2006 an we got 3 games SSBMelee,Sonic Heroes, 4swords(main reason he got it & because it was incredibly cheap) melee is fun but not as fun as the 64 SSB(opinion) probably because everybody wanted to play XBOX/PS2 as an effect of that 4 player was never an option(well for me it wasn't).You'll think am lying but am not :↓Console:Timeline↓:

I have 4 big bros.& 3 little sisters.↓Before i was born↓
1989-1994NES:my big brother owned this one he's now 25
SNES:my second big brother owned this one he's now 23.
1995-2004N64:my brother that is older than me by 3yrs as of now owned this one he's 18.We had two actually he ruined one(it was everybodies(family system)) when everybody was playing(including me) SSB and he didn't get his turn so he got angry and picked it up and threw it to the floor and the system along with the SSB got ruined.So our dad bought him a 64 bundled with Donkey kong 64(i want a remake 4 the 3ds) and a memory expansion pack.
↓after i was born↓
2002-2002DreamCast:IDK who owned this but Sonic adventures & the tony hawk game were cool.
2004-2009PS2:My brother owned this one hes goin to be 20 this month.
2005-2008XBOX:OG:ME am 15
2006-?Gamecube:My brother who's going to be 20 this month owned this one.
2007-2010(redring):Me again.
& my sisters dont have no consoles even though i tried to convince them into getting a wii instead they all got dsi's.

@TrueWiiMaster Do not EVER try to say the PS3 has too many reused titles -_-. Nintendo has been using the same formula for ALL of it's games for decades. Tell me the difference between Super Mario 64 and Super Mario galaxy

Having sequels is a plus, NOT minus. Look at Nintendo.

@SanFrisco9er
Wi-fi compatibility? You mean online play? No they don't. But that doesn't mean they aren't excellent.

You can't take me seriously because I think the graphics of Pikmin 1 and 2 are on par with Halo's, and here you are telling me that games you've never played on the Gamecube must look worse than games you've played on the Xbox because Xbox games look better? Seriously?

Having the best graphics does not mean having the most realistic graphics. Like I said, they're hard to compare to Halo due to different styles, but you can't just dismiss every non-realistic Gamecube game because of that. They are completely relevant to an argument about graphics. Windwaker looked, and still looks, amazing.

Doom 3 might be the best looking game of last gen, but that doesn't change the fact (as much a fact as your own so-called fact) that Metroid Prime 2 looks far better than Halo 2.

I think you misunderstood what I said. I said the PSP was too much stronger than the DS, graphically, for companies to release the same games on both the PSP and the DS. The Gamecube and Xbox shared many multiplatform games, and therefore the gap between them is much smaller than the gap between the PSP and DS.

I don't own an Xbox, nor any games for it. Most of what I played on it was Halo 2, but I've watched Chaos Theory for hours. From what it sounds like, you haven't really played much on the Gamecube either.

Weird. I have 4 brothers and 3 sisters too, though one of my brothers is younger than me. If you're 15, which is what I think I gathered from your timeline, than no, we're not the same age. I'm the third youngest in my family, and both of my younger siblings are older than 15.

P.S.- I also loved DK64.

@TrueWiiMaster If you think the gsmecube's graphics were better than the Xbox's... Then you can't be taken seriously

@Nintendoftw
Super Mario 64 took place in the Mushroom Kingdom, while Mario Galaxy took place in outer space. Mario 64 never had a sequel, but Mario Galaxy did. They each have very different power-ups, bosses, enemies, and levels not found in the other game. And, of course, Mario 64 was on the N64 while Galaxy was on the Wii, meaning very different controls. They may have the same basic formula, but they are actually pretty different.

Besides that though, it should be mentioned that, first of all, there's a difference between reusing a successful formula and releasing almost identical games, and second of all that, like I said, no major Nintendo franchise has more than 2 games on the Wii (unless you count New Super Mario and Galaxy together, which I don't).

There are more differences between Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword than between Modern Warfare 1, 2, 3, and Black Ops combined. The same goes for every game I mentioned in my example. That's why I accused Playstation of reusing titles. They do. Of course, there's also the fact that all of these games came out in the last 5 years! It took Zelda 25 years to reach 9 console games, counting Four Swords. It took COD 5 years to accumulate 7 games on the PS3, with another coming this year. Assassin's Creed took 4 years to rack up 4 PS3 games, the 5th coming this year.

Of course, Playstation has always gotten tons of entries into its main series. PS1 had 4 Twisted Metals, 3 Crash Bandicoots, plus a racer, 3 Spyros, 3 Tekkens, and 3 Final Fantasy's. The PS2 had 7 .Hack games, 6 Ratchet and Clanks, 3 Jaks, plus a racer, 3 Xenosagas, 3 Sly Coopers, 3 Final Fantasy's, and 3 Tekkens. I'm not saying I don't like these games, just that sometimes looking at just the total numbers can be misleading. What looks like 25 9.0's might actually be 5 or 6 great franchises.

@Nintendoftw
Says the man who claims all Nintendo fans should hate the Wii because it's not the PS3.

@TrueWiiMaster Stop relating COD with the PS brand... That's a multiplat game.
The exact same with just about every other game you mentioned that has a sequel annually. All PS exclusives don't do that, and when they do they definitely do not look identical. And plus you way overdid it with all of the CODs being identical... The different between COD Modern Warfare and COD Modern Warfare 3 is pretty big.

@TrueWiiMaster You should HATE the wii because it will lead to the death of Nintendo. You keep buying everything that has the Nintendo brand on it which tells Nintendo they aren't doing anything wrong. The casual market is completely taken over by smart phones or already have Nintendo Wii systems. The hardcore audience is with PS3/360 because they were betrayed by Nintendo with the release of the Wii. Unless Nintendo decides to get back on track so that more multiplats get put onto the Wii U then Nintendo will DIE as a company. They will get NO sales at all if they use the same tactic as they did with the Wii. The casual market is taken, so no casual sales. The hardcore market won't take another underpowered system with last gen hardware. The core Nintendo fans will buy it to support Nintendo, but the sad truth is that Nintendo has DRASTICALLY less fans than before the release of the Wii. Sure the Nintendo fanbase is still the largest, but it's not big enough to carry the Wii U. What you are doing by buying Nintendo systems that have horrible hardware is telling Nintendo that they are not in danger and the competition does not affect them. When they are in more danger than they ever were before. I refuse to let Nintendo kill itself and become another SEGA

@Nintendoftw the wii or wii u will lead to the death of Nintendo??? I seriously doubt Nintendo will leave the gaming industry since they have all that money from the Wii Success. I am pretty sure Wii U will be a big success also since its the only 8th gen console comming out right now. Quite trying to prove points about Nintendo when clearly Nintendo is the biggest success this generation.

@Nintendoftw
Really? Last I heard the Wii made Nintendo millions, or was it billions? Am I wrong in saying it outsold both the 360 and PS3? And who are you to tell the makers of such a successful console what will and what won't sell? Also, how do you know if the Wii has fewer fans than the Gamecube? You shouldn't assume everyone thinks the same way you do.

What I'm doing by buying the Wii and its games is tell Nintendo I like their games. It's true. I do like their games. Of course, I don't buy every game released for the Wii. I use my purchases to send a message that I want more games like Donkey Kong and New Super Mario and fewer of the "toddler" games you mentioned earlier.

Ah, you said it. You said hardcore gamers don't play the Wii, that Nintendo betrayed them by not making the Wii stronger. Since you know so much about them, I guess you consider yourself "hardcore"? Your idea is backwards. Actually, real hardcore gamers have Wii's. They play the kinds of games that were hardcore 10, 15, and 20 years ago, games that are almost exclusively on the Wii. You may think nothing's more hardcore than a well-practiced fps fan, but that's not true. You know what's hardcore? Beating Sin and Punishment at a higher difficulty, collecting everything in Donkey Kong Country Returns, getting every "achievement in Super Smash Bros Brawl, and taking down the hardest monsters in Monster Hunter. These take time, effort, skill, and focus to achieve, and that's what makes them hardcore. I'm not saying there are no hardcore PS3/360 players, but the most hardcore games are definitely on the Wii.

@TrueWiiMaster Lol funny you keep naming like 3 hardcore wii games. I bet I can count almost all AAA hardcore wii games out myself. Name the most hardcore wii games you can, lol and if you name all of them then no, the wii does not appeal to hardcore gamers at all. And WRONG most hardcore gamers aren't on the Wii, which proves my point even more. You need to get a PS3. Lol. The Wii's games are usually terribly easily. Games like Portal 2 are a real challenge... The only REAL hardcore wii game there is is sin and punishment 2 and maybe a hand full of others rofl.

ANd money left over from the Wii...? You know that money is pretty much gone right...? The Wii U will keep the Wii U in production, NOT the Wii. And Nintendo pretty much does not have a lot of money at all compared to the other 2 competing companies, and that's why Nintendo needs to realize they are ALWAYS in danger of becoming another SEGA, no matter how many consoles they sale. Sony and Microsoft's gaming divisions not making money won't kill them... But Nintendo is a strict gaming company. Nintendo is definitely the best of the three companies but they are also the most arrogant. Because Nintendo doesn't even acknowledge that they have competition.

@TrueWiiMaster No Nintendo isn't the one who produces the toddler games... Okay if Nintendo were to decide to make hold back and wait until Sony or Microsoft releases a new console and then release a console that is perhaps between the two in terms of power, and STILL released the great Nintendo exclusives that we all know then they would NOT have the toddler games. They would get all the multiplatform games and plus they would attract more Nintendo fans.

@Nintendoftw
I named 4 hardcore Wii games, not 3, and if you think DKCR is easy, you've probably never beaten it. And those weren't all the hardcore games on the Wii. There's also Punch Out, Excitebots, Fire Emblem and Tatsunoko vs Capcom. I'm sure there's more if I looked. What games on the PS3 would you call hardcore? And by hardcore, I mean challenging. In other words, you can go ahead and remove COD and Battlefield, and any other game that you consider hardcore for being M, having robust online multiplayer, or being long. And try to use exclusives.

As for Nintendo running out of money: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/03/nintendo_reportedly_has_8128_billion_yen_in_the_bank
They have plenty. Don't worry.

Of course Microsoft and Sony have more money than Nintendo! They're Microsoft and Sony! But that's not to say they'll sink it all into the video game department to cover huge losses, and it certainly doesn't mean their consoles have been more profitable.

P.S.- I don't need a PS3 to play Portal 2. I have a computer.

@TrueWiiMaster Battlefield 3 is pretty hard... Especially since it is primarily an online game. Sniping a jet pilot in BF3 in itself is harder than any game you can think of on the Wii.

@TrueWiiMaster I highly doubt your computer is powerful enough to play Portal 2 decently... And I SERIOUSLY doubt you're a PC gaming because you seem to lack basic knowledge of how important technical specifications are in a gaming system. And lol the PS3 version of Portal 2 is the best version

@TrueWiiMaster I'm talking long term. Next gen if Nintendo uses the same tactic as this gen, Nintendo will fail the gen and that could put it at serious risk of becoming SEGA.

Pretty much any online game on the PS3 that takes skill, including MW3 even, is hard. Wii's online is horrible so you wouldn't know much about it. You probably would be the one to state that playing BF3 online is easy

@Nintendoftw
The fact that Battlefield's primarily an online game does not make it more hardcore. If anything, it makes it less hardcore. Using a specific weapon to do a specific thing makes this game hardcore to you? Really? That seems a little too... specific... Beating New Super Mario Bros last level without taking any damage or using any power up after wasting the first 200 seconds is really hard too. Probably harder than almost anything on the PS3.

I don't usually use internet abbreviations but...lol. Just because I think a great game relies more on great design than power of the system it's on, I "seem to lack basic knowledge of how important technical specifications are in a gaming system"? Nice. Portal 2 doesn't require a very powerful computer to play. It might not be at the best settings, but if it's really such a great game, slightly diminished textures and lighting shouldn't really detract much. You're right that I'm not a PC gamer though. I just prefer holding a controller over using keyboard and mouse (and yes, I know there are some controllers for PCs). But if I really wanted to play Portal 2, I'd play it on my desktop rather than buy a PS3.

@Nintendoftw MW3 is cheap. Spawn killing and camping are huge problems, but aside from that it's okay, I still think MW2 is better. BF3 isn't hard once you unlock attachments to reduce your guns recoil, pretty easy actually.

@TrueWiiMaster http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igkU4JonNug

Name me one game that looks as fun and intense as this on the wii, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ANY FIRST PARTY GAMES. Why isn't there any? The Wii isn't powerful enough.

And none of this was staged either, all the destruction is a result of the frost bite 2 engine... Something the Wii can't handle. If it COULD handle it then Wii owners would be able to enjoy this game too.

@Nintendoftw
Who should I believe? You telling me Nintendo will fail, or the success they've had so far with the Wii, DS, and 3DS?

I've never played Battlefield 3, but MW3's online is pretty bad, or maybe I should say the community/setup is bad. I was just playing it about a week ago, and all I saw were campers and spawn-kills. It was far to common to spawn, and be killed within seconds. That's not difficulty. That's cheap.

Either way, how hard your online experience is depends on what perks/weapons you've unlocked/purchased and who you're playing with. Two people of equal skill aren't equal if one of them played longer and unlocked a better gun, or worse, bought the unlockables (in Battlefield)! I still can't believe that's an option! And you still call it hardcore?! I can't whip out my credit card to collect everything in Mario. Most online fps's rely on luck, weapons, perks, and lastly, some skill. Far from I'd call hardcore.

@Nintendoftw You do realize that video is a cut and paste of the most intense portions of an online match. There are many other portions where nothing happens.

@Nintendoftw Yes, Wii owners could enjoy all of the glitches and bugs that game is filled with. Thankfully they won't unless they buy it for another console.

@TrueWiiMaster In BF3 you are supposed to rely on team work to help your team out. There are always numerous circumstances where you have to decide rather to drive to an enemy base and help out your team or go out on your own and capture bases (This option usually gets you killed). Vehicles add a ton to the gameplay and overall structure of the game. BF3 is pretty unique if you were to actually play

@TrueWiiMaster And wrong, all o the weapons on BF3 have different setup and all but they are all completely balanced. Except the automatic shotgun with explosive rounds... But i'm pretty sure the patch fixed that.

@Quake You obviously do not have BF3, because if you did you'd know the majority of matches are exactly like the video, unless the match has a small amount of players, and most servers don't because the game is very alive.

@TrueWiiMaster And please stop comparing Mario dude. I can name countless games that are harder than any mario game. The mario series is insanely fun but none of them are truly hard. Especially the ones released nowadays.

@Nintendoftw I obviously don't have a game I have? Explain how that's possible.

@Quake Saying that BF3 has more boring moments than intense moments is the most moronic statement I have ever heard of in my life.

@Nintendoftw
So no weapon you earn later on is better than the weapons you start with?

And how about this video, about 40 seconds in:
<a rel="external" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XvxNCyUGJk">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XvxNCyUGJk</a>

It took me awhile to find a good video. EA sure knows how to make their games look action-packed! Good thing for me Nintendo knows how to make their GAMES action packed. Just kidding. EA's not too bad. Except with DLC and other greed-centered actions. But I was serious about Nintendo making action-packed games... That wasn't the joke.

I was comparing doing specific things in Mario to doing specific things in Battlefield. Either way, you end up with a very difficult task. But no, Mario games, played without special rules or objectives, aren't usually that hard. Of course, neither are online fps's...

@Nintendoftw I never said it had more boring than intense moments. I've yet to experience a match where that much happens continually throughout the match.

@TrueWiiMaster Yeah but online FPS games aren't the only thing the PS3 offers. I mean even though Red Dead Redemption isn't very hard I can't stress how good of a game it is. Just the fact that is is ON the PS3/360 should make you want one.

@Quake I have lol. You obviously don't play much.

@TrueWiiMaster http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19N75TL1dHU&ob=av3e (CHANGED THE REVIEW, SORRY THIS ONE IS BETTER)

This is a review of the game. And just for icing on the cake the reviewer of the game is a Nintendo fan! Just check it out, just one example of an amazing game available on the "hardcore" systems.

@Nintendoftw Depends on what you call playing much. I played MW2 14 or so days on 360, 1 or so days on PS3. I've played Bad Company 2 about 1 day as well. I've only played BF3 about 5 hours. But that's just because though the game is at ver. 1.04 it plays like a beta with glitches and bugs galore.

@Quake The story mode is not what you buy a game like COD or Battlefield 3 for... EA barely put much thought into the single player. Let me guess, you haven't even got online...

@Nintendoftw
To be honest, when I first saw Red Dead advertised I thought it looked awesome, but I later found out it had content I wouldn't want to play. Let's just say that, from what I've heard, it earned its M rating, and then some. If that wasn't the case, I'd consider getting it, if I ever had a system it was released on. I wouldn't buy a system for it.

Whatever happened to that list of hardcore PS3 games I asked for? Didn't you say there were tons of games on the PS3 more hardcore than anything on the Wii?

And as it so happens, I like that particular reviewer. I was already a subscriber.

@Nintendoftw Yeah, I can't imagine buying a AAA shooter by EA or Activision only for the campaign. Actually that's only counting online. The single player has glitches unique to it as well. I estimate a little over half finished with the campaign.

@TrueWiiMaster So you don;t like it because it;s too violent -_-. It's no more violent than GTA IV. And WAKE UP. You don't live in an E rated world.

And almost any game can be hardcore when it's setting is on hard... And with this logic:

• God Of War 3
• Dante's Inferno
• GTA IV (At certain points)
• Portal 2
• Dead Space 2
• Resistance 3
• Batman Arkham Asylum

@Quake The multiplayer has a few glitches, but since the patch update there are no glitches that affect the online gameplay.

@Nintendoftw There are still glitches in the multiplayer. MAV glitch anyone? Not to mention how many tries it takes to climb over a wall.

@Nintendoftw
It's not really the violence that keeps me from playing it... It doesn't look as violent as many games on the market. Comparing it to GTA 4 means nothing to me. I have absolutely no interest in any GTAs on principle. And I can play whatever games I want. The world may not be E rated, but that doesn't mean I want to entertain myself with more of the world. If I prefer games with fewer/milder warnings in the ESRB box that's up to me. Even if everyone else was playing games well-deserving of their M rating, that would have no influence on what I play.

Only two of those are exclusive to the PS3, but whatever. You really think all of those are hard? Really hard? Hard enough that you will lose/die often? So hard that you need practice to beat them?

@TrueWiiMaster You don't practice to beat any game -_-. But yes they are all that hard. Especially Dead Space 2... I'm playing on normal mode and it's frustrating because i'm stuck on one level and I have low health, low ammo, and no money to buy either. And it seems to happen often too.

@Quake How many tries it takes to climb over a wall? Well you're the only one there dude... The only glitch I have is that you can leap over stairs, which is pretty awkward feeling.

@Nintendoftw Generally takes 2-3 tries to climb over a wall. Either way, this game should have had no glitches at the latest 1.01. They didn't fix the heavy texture popping either.

@TrueWiiMaster And saying that games like Monster Hunter compare to LA Noire http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc_Mww4Ra5k&feature=fvwp&NR=1 Is just laughably funny... I mean seriously, the 3DS, a handheld, handled a port of Monster Hunter Tri... I mean sure that doesn't mean anything to you, but the Wii, a home console, shouldn't have handhelds overtaking it... Handhelds are awesome sure, but when they beat out consoles theres a serious problem. How are you not bothered that the PSVita is miles ahead of the Wii in terms of power... Being a next gen handheld doesn't mean much either. Considering that the PS3/360 are both more powerful than the Vita.

@Quake Yes, when the screen turns colors. Not every game is perfect I suppose, but that doesn't distract from the fact that BF3 is an AAA game.

@Nintendoftw
Before I respond to your latest post, I didn't notice that you said, "almost any game can be hardcore when it's setting is on hard". What makes a game hardcore is not having to crank it up to the highest difficulty to make it hardcore. Every game I mentioned as a hardcore Wii exclusive is hard without changing the setting. Sin and Punishment is hard even on easy, and becomes nearly impossible when you raise it to the highest difficulty, which is why I mentioned that before.

If you don't believe me about Sin and Punishment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh8Ej1FyJDo

You have to practice if you want to beat Punch Out, Monster Hunter, Excitebots, Smash Bros Brawl (achievement-wise), and you better believe that some of the harder levels in DKCR will require many tries before you become good enough to beat them. And that's without a difficulty setting.

Your problem in Dead Space seems more like a planning error than actual difficulty. I mean, if you had plenty of health and ammo right now, would it be hard?

@TrueWiiMaster No I meant Wifi compalibility.

First of all what is a pikmin and what is the point of either game if there's any. Second, were those the only games that could be compared to HALO 1?

WTF do you even mean ''having the best graphics does not mean having the most realistic graphics''.

XBOX's Star Wars being better looking than gamecubes Star Wars is proven to be a fact(not my fact).

Name one if not some multiplatorms(that came out on all three systems) that look better on the gamecube. I could name 1(2 actually) game that could've been a multiplat but couldn't because the PS2 & gamecube were too weak and wasn't as powerful as the XBOX:OG so the game(s) became XBOX exclusive the game is called Farcry:Instincts. You have to play this game either for OG or 360.& am pretty sure XBOX had the best versions of Multiplatform games.

So pretty much you have very little knowledge of XBOX:OG. Don't get me wrong I haven't played gamecubes greatest game(am looking at you Viewtiful JOE) but still you only played 1 game & watched hours of splinter cell(0.o)?

So now you finally get the point XBOX:OG DEMOLISHES the lunchbox.
So from that paragraph you must be 34?whow...

@Nintendoftw If it fits your definition of a AAA game then okay. After re-thinking it I don't really know if BF3 fits the AAA category for me. A massive budget yes, but the glitches (maybe bugs instead of glitches, depending on what a glitch is by definition) in the game are just as massive.

@Nintendoftw
Interesting that you would mention it that way. The next gen portable from Nintendo can get ports from the Wii, and that's further evidence of the Wii's weakness, right? From what I understand, the Vita can handle PS3 games, or at least that's what Sony's been saying, so let me ask you, should the PS3, a home console, have handhelds overtaking it? Not to mention that the PS4 is at least a year or more away, while the Wii U will be out before long.

And Monster Hunter compares well to just about any game ever made. It has great gameplay, high difficulty, replayability, a huge world, online, customization, and is overall just great. How long does LA Noir take? Is it challenging?

@TrueWiiMaster The planning is what makes the game difficult. On the hardest difficulty you have to plan out everything as you go on, and it being a horror games leaves no time for planning.

@TrueWiiMaster let me read these post. CONSOLE WARS!

@TrueWiiMaster Did you look at the link I showed you?

Monster Hunter is AMAZING. In last gen standards...

If I were to compare Monster Hunter Tri and Skyrim in terms of level of detail and amount of time put into the games who would get the vote? Skyrim.

The fact that Skyrim has insane amounts of content and has graphics, story, and sound as icing on the wonderful cake makes it on a completely different level compared to Monster Hunter, which has lackluster sound, graphics, and to some extent, story. Sure the core gameplay is equal if not better than Skyrim, but it has no icing, and is dry in comparison.

@Nintendoftw I can't see how Deadspace is difficult considering they let you melee. Played it before and just went through the game melee killing everyone. The whole concept of easy button melee in a horror game takes away the suspense and removes some of the point of a gun.

@Quake You only named two glitches... How is that considered massive?

And BF3 isn't considered AAA by my standards, but just about everyone who's ever reviewed it's standards lol.

@Quake Melee doesn't do anything... Sure it's a nice thing to have and decently powerful. The problem is that your enemies can also melee, and their melee is atleast 5x the power of your own, Heck if one gets 4 to 5 hits on you then you die.

@SanFrisco9er
Umm, I'm not 34... far from it... I think your math is a little messed up...

Pikmin is an extremely fun and innovative time-management real time strategy game. If you'd seriously like to hear more, just ask.

I'd say they're comparable to or better than Halo 2.

For one, Beyond Good and Evil.

No, I have some knowledge, just not much experience.

The Lunchbox has yet to be defeated!

@Quake Saying that you "played it before" I can imply that you don't own it and you have not finished the game. And you can't finish the entire game with melee attacks even if it's on easy difficulty -_-.

@TrueWiiMaster I've got to say in terms of games the Gamecube is more comparable to the PS2 than Xbox... Xbox was a gen ahead in terms of tactics and that's why it got the fewest sales. It had online FPS games and good graphics before it was cool.

@Nintendoftw Nope, don't own it, played. Very mediocre game, in terms of scares, atmosphere and puzzles. Much rather play hard from the start games like RE (classics, not the fake RE4 and RE5) and Dino Crisis. Extermination is also good.
I would need to play it some more to say whether or not they removed the glitches. I plan on trading it in next week, though. Just not a good game, I liked BC2 but that eventually got old. BF3 had glitches the moment I started playing and that really tainted the whole experience.
AAA is relative I suppose. I'm not gonna say it's good just b/c most reviewers say it is, given my experience with it.

@Nintendoftw
No I didn't actually... I forgot to watch it while I was typing my response. I've watched it now, and my opinion stands.

Even if I admit that Skyrim's better than Monster Hunter, that wouldn't magically push Monster Hunter into an outdated level. Sure Skyrim's long, probably longer than almost every console game ever created, and it looks pretty good. I'd say sound couldn't be determined so easily, as Monster Hunter, like many Wii games, has an excellent soundtrack. Just because it's not playing through optical doesn't mean it's not as good. Likewise, Monster Hunter's far from a slouch when it comes to length. Just because it doesn't match up against one of the longest games ever doesn't mean much. It still has more content than most PS3 games.

Besides, you're using your flawed categories again. Not all games benefit from a story, so just because one game has a great story while another almost completely lacks one doesn't make one game better than the other. Monster Hunter didn't need a deep story.

@Quake Calling Dead Space 2 bad- The only actually good horror game of this gen... Gtho of the conversation.

How is my math messed up you only gave like 1 # which was 15?

You said DOOM3 best graphics last gen end of story.

@TrueWiiMaster True. By sound I didn't mean soundtrack, I mean how you could hear swords clashing and stuff like that. The crunch of the ground beneath your feet. Deep sound detail. It makes for a great experience.

@SanFrisco9er
If I give you one number, 15, and you magically turn it into 34, you messed up somewhere. I'm not 34. I'm not even close to 30.

Yeah I did. Doom 3 looked great. id did a great job, and I give them more credit than the Xbox. Even so, Halo 2 was still outdone by many Gamecube games. End of story.

@TruWiiMaster what else you want to compare gameplay, sound, games etc? or Wii vs XBOX:OG? LOL.

@Nintendoftw
Monster Hunter may not have HD foot-crunching sounds, but it does have them as I recall, and there's certainly plenty of sound effects from the character, environments, and monsters.

@Nintendoftw Unfortunately you're probably right about it being basically the only horror game this generation. Ever since RE went the path of not scary there hasn't been any good scary games. Since Konami contracts out companies to make Silent Hill games, they've gotten worse as well. However, being the only one doesn't make Dead Space good. Amnesia for PC is scarier.

@TruWiiMaster OR sales?

@SanFrisco9er
Ahh, how about variety. The Xbox OG had some (the least of the generation) but the 360 seems to have almost none. Or if you have a better idea, feel free to start.

@SanFrisco9er
I'm not sure there's much to discuss in sales. The Wii pwned everyone there, and last gen the PS2 did the same thing.

@Quake Very true... But PC gaming is another thing all together... Hell, it's on a different level than PS3/360, so I can't imagine how much it demolishes the Wii.

@TruWiiMaster how about sales...yeah lets do sales It, will only take about 7 min start us off .

@Nintendoftw Actually it doesn't look as good as you might think. It probably could run on Wii. Definitely could run on PS3 and 360. I'm fairly certain it didn't have a massive publisher or developer, and it's more terrifying than most any horror game. But horror is also relative to the person playing.

@TrueWiiMaster yeah and the gamecube... you get the idea.

@SanFrisco9er
Umm...Hmmm...The Wii sold well? The PS3 was slow to start and the 360 got an early start (which btw caused it to use a fairly outdated graphics chip). Or perhaps about the 360 selling systems made for online gaming but charging extra for online gaming? Despite being marginally better than the PS3 online interface-wise, if that.

@Quake Nah it can't run on the Wii... I can't even stress how weak the Wii is... It's weaker than the original Xbox.

@SanFrisco9er
Oh, the Gamecube? I'm not sure the sales for that gen are as interesting... I mean, the PS2 won sales numbers by a landslide, but I think the Gamecube and Xbox were pretty close, with Gamecube winning in the end. Did the original Xbox also charge for online?

New motto/slogan after wii u releases ''The wii is wiik upgradenow''(correct me if am wrong)

@SanFrisco9er
Having the word Wii on the box so many times would probably make things a little confusing to the gaming-impaired...

@Nintendoftw I'd love to see the proof you have of that. Games are not necessarily an accurate representation of graphical capabilities. It depends on the developer more than anything. All of the 3rd party graphical power house devs are allocating most of their sources on PC, PS3 and 360. If the same developers were to put the same effort to work on a game specifically for the Wii it would look a lot better than most people think. So unless you have the Wii's specs from Nintendo or a trust-worthy dev there's not much that can be said.

@TruWiiMaster You're wrong XBOX:OG won the LB by 3 milion even though XBOX:OG stopped manufacturing 2yrs(i think) before the gamecube did.

@TruWiiMaster What?

@Quake Look both the Wii and Xbox up on Wikipedia and compare to the specs yourself...

@SanFrisco9er
Okay, so it did. Like I aid, they were pretty close. I know the Gamecube was ahead at one point, and I guess the Xbox took the lead. Interestingly enough, while I was checking the numbers on wikipedia, I noticed the N64 outsold both.

@Nintendoftw Xbox has according to Wiki a 733 MHz processor. Wii has no processor number listed.

@Nintendoftw If you click the names it says it's 243 MHz. But it was never confirmed by any real authority on the subject.

@SanFrisco9er
Your motto. Counting the name Wii U, the display box would have the name Wii on it at least 3 times. Someone would probably get confused and expect 3 Wiis to be inside...

@Quake
Though not necessarily reliable, these people say it has a 729 MGHz processor and a 243MGHz processor. One for graphics and one for more central use.
http://www.wiichat.com/forum/nintendo-wii-chat/51239-wii-processor.html

@Quake Yup. And that's only CPU processing. Btw the Wii processor is 729 MHz, at least that's the rumor. GPU on the Xbox is also more powerful than the Wii's... Overall Xbox is a bit more powerful than the Wii.

@Nintendoftw If it's just by a really small margin like 4 MHz then it's barely even worth noting. Plus the xbox was limited by the DirectX of the time. The Wii (probably isn't DirectX based) has much newer software.

@Quake Even so, the Wii's best looking game doesn't beat chronicles of riddick or splinter cell chaos theory.

nor ninja gaiden BLACK
or burnout 3, forza, rainbow 6, and the list continues

You know what? I'm just gonna wait until E3 2012 because I dont trust this garbage at all.

@Nintendoftw Chaos Theory is definitely a gorgeous game, played it so much that was borderline ridiculous. I still think Doom 3 is the best looking game on xbox b/c it had such amazing lighting, bump mapping and gooey textures, not to mention mega textures. id has the best coders in the industry, so it almost seems unfair to compare most other games to them. But it all still comes down to 3rd party devs not making graphically amazing games for the Wii.

@Nintendoftw I'm finished for now, going to sleep, be back tomorrow.

@Quake Why don't they? Because the Wii isn't taken seriously. Why isn't it taken seriously? It's an underpowered joke of a system.

@Nintendoftw
If it's not taken seriously, then why did Capcom release Monster Hunter, previously exclusively on Sony systems, only on the Wii? And Tatsunoko vs Capcom? Why did Ubisoft make Red Steel 2 exclusive to the Wii? Especially now that every system has motion controls? And how about Epic Mickey and Sonic Colors? Both of those were high profile games that could have been multi-platform, but were exclusive to the Wii.

The Wii has many great 3rd party games, but they unfortunately tend to sell poorly due simply to the hulking competition that is Nintendo's 1st party support. They may not look as good as Doom 3, but they are more unique and/or innovative than 90% of what's released on the HD systems. (Should that be a new category for what it takes to be an excellent game?) Games like Zack and Wiki, Muramasa, Boom Blox, Deadly Creatures, Trauma Center, and A Boy and His Blob. These were all great games, and very unique, but paled next to Nintendo's excellent releases, at least on the shelf.

BTW, did you ever think of any REAL hardcore games on the PS3?

All this arguing is really unnecessary! We all kno the Wii is the number one console for this gen, regardless of what others think. The numbers are there to prove it.

@TrueWiiMaster I already made the list Also, almost all of the games you said are NOT innovative... They've almost all been done before, yup, even boom blox. Look up a PC game called Roblox... And plus the Wii doesn't have any innovative games either... They have ALL been done before. Motion control has been done before... Sony did it back in 2001! Not only with the eyetoy but PS Move is a very old peripheral... Also I could use an even better argument- Why isn't the newest Mortal Combat on the Wii? Why isn't GTA IV on the Wii? Why isn't Red Dead Redemption on the Wii? Why isn't Dante's Inferno on the Wii (ROFL it's on the PSP and not the Wii, and the PSP is weaker than the Wii), and why isn't Battlefield 3 on the Wii? The Wii is considered a joke to most actually GOOD developers... One of the best gaming developers in the industry, Rockstar, wouldn't even considered putting one of their amazing games on the garbage that is the Wii.

@TrueWiiMaster And don't try to use how Nintendo exclusives overshadow any others... Aren't you aware that PLAYSTATION and XBOX has exclusives too...?

@Assassin87 This site isn't made for Wii owners. It's made for Nintendo fans. The Wii was the biggest disappointment of this gen BY FAR. Underestimating the importance of power is the dumbest decision Nintendo has ever made in it's lifetime, even worse than the virtual boy decision.

@Assassin87 Ever heard of Console Wars yeah it's not arguing it's more like debating. If feels really great once you prove someone wrong. cough•TrueWiiMaster•cough•cough You should try it jk.

@Nintendoftw Example of a incredible 360 exclusive:Gears of War: that game was mindblowing when I first played it.

@Nintendoftw You do realize Wiki is not a reliable source. The Wi''s specs have not been released to the general public and that's what it boils down to. Third parties can try to clock the system but who's to say whether what they do is correct or not flawed in some way? No one. But if you wanna believe un-proven theories then okay, be my guest.

@SanFrisco9er Gears 1 is not an exclusive to consoles, it was ported to the PC as well. And if you don't think that to be a legitimate answer to it's disuse in this conversation there's another really condemning factor that Gears 1 possesses. Ridiculous glitches that still haven't been patched. Kung-fu flip, weapon slide, roadie run and random reload to name some of the most used and abused. Since very few people ever buy a 360 game just for the single player they should have great glitch-free multi-player, but they don't.

@Quake The fact that the Wii's graphics are inferior to the Xbox's is proof in itself. It has NOTHING to do with developers... Absolutely ZERO. No one would waste money on making a game if they know the console is a joke.

@Nintendoftw
No, you made a list of games that are hard when the difficulty is cranked up. Few to none of them are hard when playing through on the default settings.

Trauma Center, Boom Blox, and Deadly Creatures were all innovative, and if you think Boom Blox and Roblox are the same, I have to assume you've never played Boom Blox (sorry to use one of your favorite lines). Roblox is more like Minecraft, while Boom Blox is a first person puzzle game. Also, note that I said "unique and/or innovative". And/or. Not every game I mentioned was innovative, though they were all unique. Did you really think I'd call A Boy and His Blob, an excellent remake of an innovative NES game, innovative? It's a great game, and there's nothing like it anywhere but on Wii, but it can't really be called innovative when it's a remake.

The eyetoy was terrible. Not only was it rarely used, but it just didn't work well. I remember trying it with a baseball game, and in order to run the bases you had to flap your arms to run. That's hard to compare to swinging a sword in Red Steel 2 or aiming your gun in the conduit. And the PS Move has only been available in America for less than 2 years. How is that old? Besides, Nintendo did it first with their less than perfect Power Glove. Neither the Eyetoy nor the power glove are comparable to the Wii Remote in motion controlled gaming. It alone innovated shooters, point-and-click adventures, and virtual interaction in general.

Those games weren't released on the Wii because it didn't have enough power for direct ports and the developers didn't think it worth it to make new versions for the Wii. Okay, I answered your questions, so why aren't the great 3rd party Wii games on anything else? It's not because of power restrictions or incompatible peripherals. So why then? Is it because HD gamers prefer more traditional games and gun-toting sandboxes?

The DS was underpowered compared to the PSP, and yet Rockstar still released GTA Chinatown Wars on Nintendo's portable before releasing it on the PSP. Power isn't the most important thing to them either.

And don't forget, though Rockstar is a great developer, they're only one among many, and Nintendo's far above them.

If "GOOD" developers consider the Wii a joke, what does that make Capcom, creator of Street Fighter, Monster Hunter, Resident Evil, and Mega Man? How about Team Ninja? EA? Ubisoft? Activision? You're running out of major developers here.

Great point there. I couldn't have said it better myself. Sony and Microsoft both have exclusives, but they don't overshadow other games the way Nintendo's 1st party exclusives do. That might be because, whether you're buying Halo, Gears of War, Killzone, Resistance, COD, or Battlefield, you're getting a shooter. I'm not saying they aren't unique from one another, but they certainly aren't as unique from each other as Mario and Zelda are from 3rd party games. No one offers the same experience as Nintendo, but you can find a dozen current shooters on the PS3 and 360. Plus, Nintendo has heritage. When people see a Mario or Zelda or Donkey Kong on the shelf, they know it's great, whereas many less-known 3rd party games are a risk. And then there's nostalgia to consider!

P.S.- Dante's Inferno being on the HD systems and he PSP has no relevance. EA made an HD version, not compatible with the Wii, and a portable version, which wasn't good enough for the Wii. So what? They didn't think it worth it to make a third version for the Wii.

@SanFrisco9er
You should really get that cough checked. It sounds a little infected and wrong.

@Nintendoftw
"Underestimating the importance of power is the dumbest decision Nintendo has ever made in it's lifetime..."

Even though it produced by far the most successful console of this generation, made Nintendo richer than ever, and innovated the gaming industry?

@Nintendoftw Based off of your comment it's completely logical for me to say that you think EA, Capcom, Ubi and the numerous other developers/publishers are no-bodies because they made/make games for the Wii. That also means that you enjoy playing a game (Deadspace 2) that was made by a no-body, AKA EA.

@TrueWiiMaster Lol yeah sure they might port a few games to the wii because they know Nintendo fans are interested in games like marvel vs capcom... And others reasons might be that they just want some money, and developing for the wii is easy. Although Nintendo exclusives are more popular, that still is no excuse at all. Ratchet And Clank are pretty big, and has just as much ability as Donkey Kong to overshadow releases (Not as much as Mario or Zelda of course), and although sales are leaps over the average PS3 game, do you see more mature games taking drastic hits?

@TrueWiiMaster It never innovated anything. Sony had motion control before the Wii was even thought of... And the power glove isn't motion control.

@TrueWiiMaster And wrong, the list primarily had games that were hard in general... And the ones with difficulty settings are hardcore too, a heck of a lot more hardcore than Monster Hunter

@Nintendoftw
None of the games I mentioned were ports. They're all Wii exclusives from 3rd parties. As far as money being reason to develop on the Wii, why do you think developers make games on the PS3? Ratchet and Clank can't compare to the fame and notoriety of Donkey Kong, one of gaming's oldest icons.

What do you mean by "do you see more mature games taking drastic hits?" Are you talking about how M games on the PS3 aren't affected by Ratchet and Clank? Because, like I said, Ratchet and Clank doesn't hold a candle to many Nintendo franchises by way of fame, quality (I like Ratchet and Clank, but it's true), popularity, and nostalgia. The Nintendo effect is one only Nintendo really has, because no other company has been successfully releasing great games as long as them. They hold the majority share when it comes to great classic game franchises.

The power glove allows the player to "perform various hand motions to control a character on-screen". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Glove
It might not be much, but controlling a game with hand motions other than pressing buttons/joysticks is still motion gaming. The eyetoy wasn't the first motion gaming device, and like I said it was a failure compared to the Wii remote.

So even though the Wii remote was the first remote to allow players to actually point their gun at the screen and target enemies (unless you count additional peripherals like the lightguns seen in Time Crisis and Duck Hunt), and the first remote to allow pointing and clicking in point and click games, and the first remote to accurately act as a sword the player can swing, it's not innovative? Even though Sony made an extremely similar remote to allow Wii-like gameplay on the PS3 because it had something to offer that a dual analog couldn't? Even though, for the first time, it gave players an invisible extra control along with their buttons? Even though it was the first controller to itself accurately act as a steering wheel? What ISN'T innovative here?

I don't know when the name Wii was thought of, but motion gaming was on Nintendo's mind for years before the Wii was released. Hence the power glove.

Oh and Rockstar developed for the DS because the DS isn't a joke... It's not weaker than the gameboy. While the wii is weaker than a last gen system. Plus the fact that mature ds games are more common than mature wii games...

@Nintendoftw
Difficulty settings don't make a game hardcore. If it did, than like you said before, almost every game would be hardcore.

Of the games you mentioned:
Batman isn't that hard.
From what you've said, smart planning and conservation would make Dead Space not hard
Portal 2, as I understand it, is a puzzle game in which you have all the time in the world to solve puzzles. Correct me if I'm wrong. That's no harder than a difficult crossword.
Resistance 3 offers co-op to make the game substantially easier, or did they remove that since Resistance 1?
GTA 4 you yourself said is only hard at some parts.
I've never heard of God of War being hard, but it seems some collectables are difficult to get, so it might work
Dante's Inferno, from what I gleaned from the IGN review, is anything but hard

Would you like to try again?

And Monster Hunter is definitely harder than most or all of those games. Some of the monsters take significant preparation and hours of practice to beat. But then, you said you never practice to beat a game, right? Maybe your idea of hard isn't as hard as you think.

@Nintendoftw
Actually, according to Gamestop, the Wii has more than 3 times the M games the DS has, (37 to 11).

You have yet to produce evidence that the Wii IS weaker than any of the last gen consoles. What's more, the power difference you claim to be there and claim to be so important only amounts to a few MGHz out of over 700!

Also, it would have to be compared to the GBA, not the Game Boy, and the case would be completely different because the DS was the GBA's successor. Of course it's more powerful! The Wii is absolutely more powerful than its predecessor! And as far as I can tell it's as powerful as the Xbox too, maybe better!

@Nintendoftw I take it you've never perused a list of mature DS games and then compared the number to mature Wii games. Wii - Alone in the Dark, Black Ops, MW3, World at War, Cursed Mountain, Dead Rising, Dead Space: E, Madworld, Manhunt 2, No More Heroes 1 and 2, Obscure, Darkside Chronicles, Umbrella Chronicles, Silent Hill: SM, Double Agent and Tenchu. That amounts to be 16, and I skipped some. The DS has 999, Dementium 1 and 2, GTA, Theresia, Touch the Dead, RE: DS, Crime Scene, Ultimate Mortal Kombat and Shin Megami Tensei: SJ. Which amounts to be 11. Quite obviously the DS had less mature titles than the Wii.

@TrueWiiMaster You've never even played any of them yourself rofl. Yes, Dead Space 2 is hard BECAUSE of that. Batman Arkham City is also difficult, have you even played it? It's about maybe 50/50 but still a fun but difficult game. God of War and Dante's Inferno are both equal in difficulty, especially with the inferno difficulty and the god difficulty set on each one. And about 50-45% of games nowadays don't even have difficulty settings...

@Quake You obviously misread the comment... By mature games I didn't mean rated M, I was talking about games that weren't aimed at children... And about 55-60% of all of the Wii's library is for children. That is pathetic. I admit the DS has it's fair share of childish games, but the DS has more games than the Wii, and the good outweighs the bad. I would take my DS over my piece of garbage Wii any day.. Especially since unlike the Wii, the DS is a REAL successor to the gameboy. The Wii practically is a gamecube 1.5 (Literally)

@TrueWiiMaster If you were to also look at the GPU specs for each of the system you'd fine the Xbox's to be superior as well, not only in processing power but in shading affects and fogging affects. The Wii is pathetic. If the Wii was more powerful than the Xbox but yet the Xbox comes close it would STILL be pathetic, NO next gen system should be even comparable in power to the last gen systems... And the Xbox managed to one up the Wii even though the technology is from 2001, heck rofl even earlier than 2001 because 2001 was only the release date...

@TrueWiiMaster The Wii is weaker than the Xbox, in GPU and CPU... And the Xbox's graphics card is capable of doing more. Lol the only thing the Wii's GPU MIGHT have over the Xbox's is that it is capable of doing better bump mapping, overall, although not by a lot, the Xbox is more powerful than the Wii..

Games like Dead Space were originally designed for the original Xbox but since he Xbox died it was put on the Xbox 360.... And telling from Dead Space beta on the Xbox, the graphics were no different than they were on the 360.

Although it is bad quality, you can't see a huge difference at all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuOBsih6Os0

@TrueWiiMaster You don't practice to beat any games, unless it's an RTS or anything that takes tactics... And although I have to admit I haven't played Monster Hunter, but no game where you beat monsters up with clubs is nearly as tough as ANY of the games I listed.

@Nintendoftw I can't see how that is in any way a misreading on my part considering you specifically wrote "mature" which is what the "M" rating stands for. It must be a poor choice of words on your part.

@Nintendoftw
You said, Arkham Asylum, not Arkham City. Though I haven't played any of those games personally, my brother played Arkham Asylum thoroughly, and I watched a fair amount. It's not that hard. I'd imagine Arkham City's difficulty's about the same.

According to IGN, Dante's Inferno wasn't that hard. They even said that most enemies in the game can be taken out with one hit, and the "harder" enemies can be beaten with simple combos. The "inferno" mode you mentioned is also in their review. They said that after you beat it you can play it again on a higher difficulty, carrying over your upgrades/exp/weapons/whatever this game uses into it. Not hardcore.

Like I said before, God of War might work if you go after the hardest collectables.

Those elements that make Dead Space hard don't sound that hard, but I've never played it. I tend to conserve everything in games anyway, so I don't know how much they would affect me. Conserving healers and ammo is common in horror games. The original Resident Evils gave you no more than you needed. If you wasted it, things would get tough.

If you look up the Xbox and Wii on Wikipedia, for lack of a more reliable site, you get the following (you have to click on the chips for the Wii's data):
Wii CPU: 729 MHz
Xbox CPU: 733 MHz
Wii GPU: 243 MHz
Xbox GPU: 233 MHz

As you can see the Wii has a higher GPU. So you were wrong about that. Also worth noting is that, while these Xbox numbers seem to be exact, the Wii's numbers aren't certain. There has been no official confirmation on the Wii's power; these are what people have found.

The Wii might be pathetic power-wise compared to the PS3 and 360, but it has them both beat in software, so I can't say it's a pathetic system.

Is it worth pointing out that the DS has many of the same shovelware and toddler games that get released on the Wii? Like you said, it's an awesome system, but it has plenty of games that aren't worth the first look they get, let alone the double take. Rather than focus on power, Nintendo added a second screen and made it touch sensitive. Innovation over power. That's what games are all about!

@Nintendoftw
If you still have your Wii, you should definitely try Monster Hunter. It looks easier than it is. There's plenty of strategy involved, plus a ton of skill. Some monsters took me 4 or 5 tries to beat, with each try lasting over 30 minutes. If that's not practicing to get better, I don't know what is.

You HAVE to practice to get some of the trophies in Brawl, and it would be nigh impossible to beat every stage in Excitebots without redoing some of them several (or more) times! Punch Out! is a game all about fighting opponents until you've learned their moves well enough to beat them. Practice!

@Nintendoftw First off, Batman AA was easy, yet to play it on hard, but on normal the combat relies heavily on waiting for an opening, which requires some degree of patience. Quake 1 on nightmare without cheats is where real difficulty is, but that's another story.
I highly doubt you crunched the numbers to get the percentage you have in your post, but who knows, maybe you did. Assuming it is a fake percentage I could come up with one that is representative of the PS3 in relation to what you consider games aimed towards the "mature" audience and say that it's "pathetic" and the conversation wouldn't move, just like how it is with your comment. So your comment was pointless.
Graphics don't really make a game experience better. I could play Bad Company 2 (even though it is graphically weaker than Battlefield 3) and have as good a time or maybe even better.

@Nintendoftw You do realize that shaders and fog effects are not part of the system, they are part of the software. Proof of this is with Chaos Theory. During the development process they added new shader software to the game. You should have seen it before the newer shaders, lighting looked like Pandora Tomorrow.

1, they are anonymous and 2, they say this, "Wii U Not as Powerful as Wii." obviously trolls.

@TrueWiiMaster The Wii doesn't have ANYTHING beaten in software. It has the most shovelware out of any system ever made.... You simply do not have a current gen system (The wii isn't current gen, it's a gamecube 1.5). Playing and watching a couple of games means nothing if you can't dig deep into them and enjoy them... Five hours on a system with multiple games would lead me to believe you've played one hour of each game. That's DEFINITELY not enough time to actually evaluate anything. Quake is in a better position to argue.

Also before saying the Wii is more powerful look at this: <a rel="external" href="http://www.avforums.com/forums/xbox/1141405-whats-more-powerful-original-xbox-wii.html">http://www.avforums.com/forums/xbox/1141405-whats-more-powerful-original-xbox-wii.html</a>

Seems like it could be either, they keep going back and forth and each comes up with a valid argument... The fact that I can compare the Wii with the original Xbox is pathetic. Wii is supposed to be current gen, yet the Xbox is equal to or has the Wii beat in terms of power...

@Quake Yeah and i'll say it too: The PS3's library is at least 50% rated M games... And the amount of GOOD games is at least 65% rated M games... But I would rather have that than games that are aimed at children...

@Quake Oh and yes it is in the software, but also in the graphics card.. For example, the 3DS's graphics chip's specialty is in fogging effects, check out RE: Revelation's fog.

@Quake And Batman Arkham City (I mistakenly put Arkham Asylum, I don't own it so I can't judge) is hard... I was talking about on the hard difficulty setting. And rather a game has difficulty settings doesn't mean that it isn't hardcore, because batman arkham city is hard to complete fully rather it's on easy, normal, or hard.

@Nintendoftw
As I said before, the Wii isn't current tech-wise, but that doesn't mean it's not current gen. It was released this gen, it outsold its competitors, and it produced many excellent new games, many of which would have been impossible on last gen's tech.

Yes the Wii has a lot of shovelware. How does that affect how many great games it has? Just considering its great games, it has more variety, innovation, and creativity than either HD system, and software's what really matters. Last gen, the PS2 had the most shovelware. Does that mean it lost software-wise to the Gamecube and Xbox? Come to think of it, it was the weakest last gen too (unless you count the Dreamcast). Why wasn't it a failure?

What other random people say in a discussion similar to ours isn't proof for anyone's case. According to what wikipedia says (it may not be reliable, but I don't know of a more reliable source on this subject) the Wii had a stronger GPU by 10 MHz and a weaker CPU by 4 MHz based on assumed maximums on the Wii. If that's true, no amount of arguing will change it.

I've played more than 5 hours on the 360, in Halo ODST alone.

I'd say that the games worth getting on the PS3 are more like 90% "mature" (like you said, not M, just made for "mature" audiences; in other words including some T games). The games worth owning on the Wii are probably around 85-90% E-T, leaning towards E, but that doesn't equate to them being games for children. The E rating in no way means that the games are specifically aimed at children. Nor does it mean the games are shallow, easy, or boring. Maybe you think differently, but I would never say Mario, Donkey Kong, Sonic, Punch Out!, or Zelda (all E-E10) appeal only to kids. In the same way, the M rating doesn't necessarily mean the game targets only adults. It only means the ESRB doesn't find the game kid-friendly. Plenty of kids play M games. You yourself said you were playing M games when you were 8! How do you define between games for kids and adults, when both kids and adults play and enjoy just about every major game? Whenever someone proposes a law to ban kids from playing M games, do you know who protests the loudest? The M game developers/publishers. If such a law passed they would lose millions because that's how many kids play their M games.

Also, since the PS3's library of good games is mostly made up of M games, what does it have to offer someone who likes E-T games like me? You complain that the Wii has too few M games, but at the same time the PS3 and 360 have too few E games. What are some great E games on the HD systems? LBP, Modnation, Banjo Kazooie, Ratchet and Clank, and what else? There are more great M games on the Wii than great E games on both HD systems combined.

@TrueWiiMaster Processing speed isn't all that matters. Look at the discussion.

@TrueWiiMaster The only reason there are more E rated games on the Wii is because the Wii has more games...... In order to have an M rating, the game usually has red blood in it. If there were certain parts in Metroid Prime were you could kill humans then it would have an M rating.... Games like Battlefield only have an M rating because there is blood. GTA IV on the other hand has drugs, sex, blood, and guns... M rating is justified, but still there is no doubt most games that are rated M on the PS3/360 are only marked that way because there is blood.

And you don't like Red Dead Redemption just because it's too "violent" to you? ROFL. I mean there was one part in the game that might be a bit graphic and if more of the game were like it I would totally say it's all justified, but the worst thing you'd find in the game is that you can shoot people and blood comes out, and the fact that there is a bit of cursing. The Wii has no variety, because nearly the majority of the library are childish games... And the majority of the PS3/360 library aren't mature rated games, just the majority of games that are considered good. The PS3/360 I admit the majority of good games are M/T rated, but to be honest all of the E rated games still exceed the average Wii game, even if they have a bad review... Say a game like Epic Mickey... Looks great doesn't it? If it were ported to the PS3/360 without any improvements then the game would probably get a 6.5/10.... Different story on the Wii because the expectations are higher on the 360/PS3...

Tell me, do you expect an average Wii game to have ragdoll physics? Well that's what's expected on PS3/360 titles. Do you expect Wii game to have graphics AT LEAST as good as GTA IV? That's what's expected on the average PS3/360 game. Expectations on the Wii are as low as the expectations were for the gamecube/xbox.

Oh and theres nothing wrong with liking E/T rated games, but when you say you can't take a game just because there is blood in it makes you sound... I love my Nintendo exclusives but it sounds to me like all you play IS Nintendo exclusives...

@Nintendoftw Again, the percentage you are using is not backed up by math so it has no weight in this conversation. But either way that is still your opinion whether or not it's pathetic for the Wii not to have enough "mature" titles but is not pathetic for the PS3 to have a good amount of "mature" titles. (That comes down to be a double-standard, though.)

Saying that Batman AC is hard only when one "fully" completes it doesn't hold any water. Any game that has optional collect-a-thon side quests would then become hard. Based off of that logic a game such as Donkey Kong Returns (which is not a "mature" game according to all that you've said) is automatically hard only because you have optional collect-a-thon side quests that are required to "fully" beat the game. When in actuality, whether or not you attempt the collect-a-thon side quests the game still requires skill to complete.

You are judging the graphics chip's abilities based off of one game that has amazing fog effects? And based on a game that came out less than one year since the launch of the system? (RE: R) That's jumping to conclusions without enough data to sit on either side.

@Nintendoftw: do me a favor and stop taking direct shots at the people you're arguing against; just keep it to the facts if you would, please.

@Nintendoftw
Wrong. Very Wrong. Count up just the top 50 games on each system. Are you telling me that the PS3 and 360 would have anywhere near as many E games in that list as the Wii? It has nothing to do with sheer numbers.

Ah, I see what you're saying by "the majority of the PS3/360 library aren't mature rated games, just the majority of games that are considered good". The PS3 and 360 have games rated lower than M (pretty sure most of those are T) but they're generally not good. The Wii has many excellent games rated E-T, and a handful of excellent M games. The HD systems have many great M games, some great T games, and about 3 or 4 decent E games. Did I misinterpret that?

What you said about mediocre E games on the HD systems being better than most great E games on the Wii is seriously flawed. Epic Mickey, though it had a less-than-perfect camera, was a great game that used a unique concept and and engrossing world to pull the player in. If it were ported to the HD systems without any changes, then yes, it would get a lower score, but not because it was worse than other E games on the HD systems. The point loss would stem exclusively from the graphical difference between it and other games on its new platform. Given a new coat of paint (pun intended), it might score higher than the Wii version, not because the graphics actually made it better, but because it would suddenly be one of the best E games on the PS3 and 360 (it has much more competition for that title on the Wii).

Did you read my post earlier? I said it wasn't the violence in Red Dead that kept me from wanting it. Look at the ESRB box. There's more than drinking, language, and violence in it. In fact, your last post makes me wonder if you've read ANY of my posts. How many times have I said I played Halo, COD, and Unreal Tournament? Those are all rated M. It's not that I hate all M games, nor is it that I can't stand a little cussing and blood in games I play (though there are many games I would avoid because they are just plain excessive), but none of that is my preference. Enjoying games with such content specifically for that content is more immature than mature.

I've grown up at least as much as an 8 year old who played M games and still plays M games. You see, when I was 8 I was playing E games, and I still enjoy them today (not exclusively, but I'm not ashamed to say they're the majority of my library). When you were 8 you were playing M games, and you still enjoy them today. What's the difference? Or should I take the advice of thousands of teenagers (and I'm not talking 16 year olds) playing M games online on Xbox who would say the exact same thing you're saying? "Grow up! Only kids play Nintendo!"

P.S.- Like I said earlier, I play what I enjoy. You play what you enjoy. I'm not attacking your love of M games, so please refrain from attacking my love of non-M games. There is absolutely no objective way to say a game with either rating is better for adults to play.

@TrueWiiMaster I don't care about the rating of the game, I grew up primarily playing E rated games, but some of the games I played were rated M (Conkers Bad Fur Day, GTA III, etc). I grew up mostly with my N64 and my Xbox. I had all three systems of last gen and enjoyed them all equally and still think the PS2 was way overrated. It's not that I think rated E games are kiddie games at all. It's just that games like Epic Mickey mostly appeal to kids, even though E stands for Everyone. The only reason your preference would be toward E rated games is because you don't play a lot of M rated games, and it's understandable because you don't have an HD system... Stop bringing up Nintendo exclusives, I am not talking about those btw.

If Epic Mickey was ported to the PS3/360 with updated graphics then it would score a 7/10.... The reason is because quite frankly, compared to the good PS3/360 games Epic Mickey is garbage. Nintendo is the only developer who makes it possible for last gen hardware to have games that match up and destroy PS3/360 games. Games like Super Smash Bros Brawl and Super Mario Galaxy are some of the ONLY games a sony/microsoft fan would want.... Why is that? Third party developers on the Wii are the worst of this gen, without a doubt.

@Nintendoftw Ragdoll physics have been in use far before the HD generation. (They started in the late 90's) CoD doesn't even use ragdoll physics, they only have pre-rendered death animations and it is one of the best-selling franchises in the HD generation. So the expectations a consumer has for a PS3/360 game are not as high as you perceive them to be.

@Quake NO.. Dude the 3DS graphics chip's specialty is fog effects, look up the 3DS on wiki, click on it's graphics chip... That's widely known.

And Donkey Kong games are challenging. Bad example. Being mature has nothing to do with being hardcore.

_{i read the comment just fine when i edited it. again, knock it off please — TBD}

@Nintendoftw
Ummm, you brought up Nintendo exclusives. I wasn't the one who brought Epic Mickey into this. That would be you.

Epic Mickey appeals to kids... and platformer fans...and Mickey fans (who span generations btw)... and people interested in a somewhat dark, consequence-heavy game unlike any before it. That's more than just kids.

"The only reason your preference would be toward E rated games is because you don't play a lot of M rated games." Are you seriously implying that M games are overall better than E-T games? Because that's not objective, realistic, or accurate.
"...and it's understandable because you don't have an HD system." I own a PS2 and Gamecube, and I have for quite a while. Are you saying that their M games don't count? Don't fool yourself. I've had access to M games for years, but I still prefer non-M games. Like I said, I do play them sometimes. They're not new to me.

And you've played Epic Mickey and find it to be terrible? And I'm not talking about a store demo either. I wouldn't say Ratchet and Clank, LBP, or Modnation are any better. Actually, I'd say LBP and Modnation are worse...

If the Sony/Microsoft fan was actually a gamer, they'd want plenty more than those two games on the Wii. As I've said, there are many excellent games on the Wii that have no counterpart on the HD systems, and they're not just 1st party games.

Because I don't want to fill my free time with blood baths, sexual themes, and heavy cussing, I "sound like an old women"? I mean, that must be what you meant, right? I play COD and Halo, so clearly the less offensive M games aren't what I don't like. I never knew every elderly woman, and no one else, was disgusted by blood fountains, crushing skulls with your foot, and sentences made up mostly of words that can't be aired on the radio being used as entertainment! What is this, the coliseum? I don't find gore and cussing entertaining, and that somehow makes me an "old women" (nice spelling btw)?

@Nintendoftw Again, Wiki is not an accurate source of information just because anyone can alter it. But regardless of that, I read the article and could not locate any sentence that says the chip is more proficient at creating fog effects over other effects. So I need you to copy and paste the part of the Wiki that verifies your claim.

Even if my point doesn't satisfy what you perceive to be correct, you still said that a game is only difficult when it has a lot of side quests, and if you don't play the side quests the game is no longer difficult. If collect-a-thon games are hardcore then DK64 must be in the top ten most hardcore games simply because you have the option to collect, a lot. But if someone decides not to collect the side items then the game is no longer hardcore to the one who decided against the collecting.

@TrueWiiMaster No, I never said because you don't like gore... Gore and blood are completely different. God Of War 3 and Dante's Inferno are gore. GTA IV has no gore, just blood mostly...

I've seen REAL gore and I can tell you just so you can know, video game gore is just about as scarring as My Little Pony.... Comparing real gore an game gore is like comparing a nerf launcher to a rocket launcher.. Trust me.

@Quake Wrong... A hardcore gamer would collect the collectibles... If the game appeals to a hardcore gamer who enjoys a challenge then it is considered hardcore. I know a hardcore gamer could also enjoy easy games too, but i'm talking about hardcore games that hardcore gamers flock to in the masses.

And having collectibles doesn't means that it's a hardcore game, being challenging makes it a hardcore game. Super Smash Bros, Sin and Punishment, Portal 2, and Dead Space 2 are challenging, so they are all hardcore games... But in reality it depends completely on the gamer and how good you are at video games. I can assure you that Dead Space 2 on the hardest difficulty is almost as "hardcore" as you can get. Not up there with sin and punishment but it's not easy by a long shot.

I also speak of games that take skill... So in this aspect Call Of Duty (Rather it be a mindless shot em up or not) is hardcore. Battlefield 3 is hardcore. Super Smash Bros is hardcore. GTA IV is arguably hardcore... Soul Calibur IV is hardcore. All of these and the lot of the PS3/360's library is hardcore.

@Nintendoftw So you're contradicting yourself. In post #362, from what I can surmise from the post, kinda choppy. You said that Batman: AC is, in the context of the post, a hardcore game based solely on the fact it is difficult to beat the game"fully" regardless of the difficulty level. I do agree with you, however, that the difficulty of a game is relative to the player.

I can't comment on whether or not Dead Space 2 is hard on hard, but from what I played of it, it was pretty easy, just minor differences from what RE4 started on the Cube. RE4 on the Cube wasn't that hard either, regardless of the difficulty.

CoD does take skill, but I'm not sure whether you would count camping and other cheap methods as a skill. (they don't require skill.)

Most fighting games hardcore just by the nature of their design. I don't wanna even get started with BF3 again, because it's quite apparent we had/have different experiences with the game. Never played a GTA, Just Cause 2 shares the closest similarities, though not completely comparable, and I own that. If you're gonna ask why I haven't played GTA it boils down to this, I don't like the option/ability/requirement to kill Police. That is also part of the reason why I traded BF3 today, that mission where you MUST kill Police in order to get to your objective. (I'm lacking specifics to prevent possible spoilers for any current/future board readers.) In general, don't wanna debate why I don't want to kill the Police, and I don't care if that comes across as illegitimate answer. Not that I'm specifically saying you would call me out on this, just trying to cover all my bases.

@Nintendoftw
And I never said I can't stand a little blood. GTA doesn't have much gore as far as I know, but it does have sexual themes and offensive content that give me reason to avoid it. Which is exactly what I said: "...I don't want to fill my free time with blood baths, sexual themes, and heavy cussing..." And I don't stay away from gore for fear of being traumatized. I avoid it because I don't like it, simple as that. Other than gore, there are elements in some games, like the ones I mentioned in GTA, that I'd rather not support or play, based on my own personal morals. Those morals won't be influenced by you telling me to grow up and play the games anyway, so you might as well give up on that.

Wait, so a game is hardcore if hardcore gamers like it? Huh. The Wii has more hardcore games than even I thought!

I still have doubts about Portal 2 being hardcore. I'm not saying it's not great, nor that it's easy, but if it's anything like Portal 1 you get all the time in the world to figure out some, admittedly sometimes mind-bending, puzzles. It may be hard, but so is a sudoku or crossword collection.

All games require some amount of skill. What makes a game hardcore is requiring a LOT of skill. Skill obtained through practice. I could beat the campaign mode of Battlefield or COD without much practice, and probably without being all that good, and in an online match skill is optional. I doubt GTA IV is that hard, because if it was, you wouldn't have said "arguably". Soul Caliber is a game that once again gives you the option to practice or not; skill's not necessary. Smash Bros is unique from other fighters in that it offers more than a simple multiplayer game with a tournament-style one player mode. Trying to unlock every trophy is VERY hard, and requires hours of practice.

Before you say anything, I know that practice can make you better at any of those games, as it can at just about any game ever, but it's optional! People who put hundreds of hours into COD are hardcore, but they aren't necessarily hardcore gamers. They're hardcore COD fans. There are plenty of hardcore fighter fans, but few fighters actually require hardcore dedication. It's an option, but so is just going so far as learning the moves and then never getting any better. Hardcore gamers can be hardcore fans, but not all hardcore fans are hardcore gamers.

DKCR, Sin and Punishment, Excitebots, Punch Out!, and Monster Hunter all require practice to BEAT the games, and require even more skill to beat them completely (i.e. collect everything, play on harder difficulty, etc.).

@Nintendoftw Forget about the 3DS fog topic? Still waiting on that cut and paste.

@Quake So you do not want to kill police officers.... In a video game... I suppose it's reasonable if you have a family member that died in the police force but, c'mon.. -_-. Killing people in general is bad. Killing ANYTHING is bad. And if your going to not play a game because of that, well you might as well stick to puzzle games.

@TrueWiiMaster All of the games you said required practice aren't hard at all with the exception of Sin and Punishment... Portal is hard, DO NOT compare it to a Sudoku... It is nothing like that and the type of thinking you're doing is completely different. GTA IV is challenging, although I said "arguably". You try lasting 10 minutes with a 6 star wanted level you tell me that "Excitebots" is harder. I'm still laughing at the fact that you listed excitebots... I mean i'd understand mario kart but... Excitebots...? Lol.

And plus video games don't ruin your "morals"... I without a doubt have better morals than most people I know, and I played Conkers Bad Fur Day at the age of five (look the game up). The problem with morals is that you don't know rather they are good or not until you test them on especially complex situations. But back on subject, playing video games aren't supposed to oppose your morals... I mean I WILL ADMIT that when I play God Of War and Kratos kills a civilian I kind of grimace, but I don't put down the game entirely... In GTA IV there isn't a lot of sex at all, the only sexual part in it is the fact that you can go to the red light district and pick up a hooker (This is completely optional, just like killing civilians is...). And it is understandable that you may not like GTA IV, I mean the story revolves around some eastern European guy trying to make it big and having to kill to get it. But Red Dead Redemption's story is pretty much the same as a western movie with the same amount of violence encountered in said movie... You really find western movies too vile to watch...?

@Quake 3DS fogging effects: http://www.siliconera.com/2011/03/17/the-nintendo-3ds-knows-how-to-make-fog-its-built-on-a-chip/

@TrueWiiMaster Cough! Did you hear that one? If you didn't make sure you plug in your ears in the computer like last time.

@Quake Gears of War 1's box said ONLY FOR XBOX(anything XBOX:OG/360 exclusive HAS to be on pc) & do you hate GoW you could've played IDK(name well known game without a glitch) kick the can & for the online stop being a sore loser it was like most played on XBOXLIVE for quite some time. Oh yeah I liked the Campaign too, I think that's why there was a trilogy. You must be looking for something to argue about but GoW is not the topic to be arguing about. Everything after the first sentence you typed wasn't necessary, trying to deny why GoW is a great 360 exclusive is like trying to deny why MKDS was the best racing game on the ds despite all the online problems.

@Nintendoftw
Like I said, I have my standards, and you won't change them. Maybe your morals say it's wrong to kill civilians in real life, but okay to do it for entertainment in the virtual world, but not mine. Like Quake, I'm also against games that require you to kill cops, nor do I want to support games in which "you can go to the red light district and pick up a hooker". It's my choice. Please actually read what I said about Red Dead. I've said at least 3 times that it's not the violence that I have a problem with in that game. I might consider getting it some day (if the content I don't want is optional), because it does look awesome, but I thought that long before I began talking with you.

The fact you played Conker at age 5 is more sad than impressive (N64 version, right? The Xbox version was cut). I don't need to look it up. That game, though excellently made by one of the best developers at the time, is infamous for being one of the dirtiest games ever made. And that grimace you get when killing civilians in God of War? Over time it will get jaded, and you won't even notice killing innocents in games. It's called getting desensitized.

Mario Kart Wii is the easiest Mario Kart to date. Double Dash was HARD. It's console sequel, not so much. And am I to assume you've played Excitebots, DKCR, and Punch Out to prove they're not hard? You already said you've never played Monster Hunter, so you're no more qualified to say anything about it than I am about games I've never played. All these games will require practice to beat, especially if you go the extra mile and beat them 100%. If you think it's hard to "try lasting 10 minutes with a 6 star wanted level", then try beating the hardest level, or any level, in Excitebots in "Super Excite" mode. Winning requires a practically perfect run, which requires having played the course many times until you have it memorized and have the best routes planned out, plus hitting every opportunity for a trick or bonus. Plus, isn't getting a 6 star wanted level something you generally try to AVOID doing in GTA?

As for Portal, let me put it another way. In the games I mentioned, skill is the most important part of beating the games. Even if you were to look online for help, they would still be hard. Can you say that for Portal? If Portal 2 is anything like the first game, it gives you puzzles and you have to find the answers. If you know the answer, the difficulty disappears or at least lessens. I'm not saying the answers are easy to come by, but it's more of a mental challenge than something you practice to get better at.

@SanFrisco9er
I try not to plug my ears into the computer. Bad habit to start.

Let's see, famous games without glitches... Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, New Super Mario Bros, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Super Smash Bros, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Punch Out, and Monster Hunter. Of course, saying to "name well known game without a glitch" understates the problems with Gears of War. It had far more than 1 glitch.

Also, not every Xbox/360 exclusive is on the PC. Do some research!

@TrueWiiMaster I do agree Portal can be taken care of with walkthroughs but hardcore gamers usually don't need walkthroughs. And really all that Wii games do when you increase difficulty is make you take more damage.... On PS3/360 usually the AI becomes smarter, your health goes down quicker, AND more enemies are on the screen. The Wii can't even run good AI and plenty of enemies on screen... The only game to showcase insane amounts of somewhat intelligent AI on screen was The Grinder, and i'm sure that's cancelled lol. GTA IV requires skill in driving and accuracy with shoot (If you're not a noob and play without lock on on). But mostly the driving part of GTA IV is a lot more of a challenge than driving in excite bots.... How can I say this without even had playing he game? Well GTA IV's driving is one word: Realistic.

@TrueWiiMaster Lol Super Maro Galaxy did have glitches. All of those games do, but of course none are as widely known as GoW's glitches. I loved Super Mario Galaxy, I just wish they would acknowledge and remake Super Mario Sunshine on the 3DS/ Wii U.

@TrueWiiMaster No Kratos killing a civilian was part of the storyline. I can kill civilians in GTA IV all I want, because it isn't part of the storyline. Feels different.

And even if I kill civilians in video games without feeling bad, why is it supposed to make me feel bad...? They don't have lives, and they are all programmed through a computer... Would you feel bad about destroying a computer?

@Nintendoftw Did you read that article? All that it says is that the 3DS comes with fog effects built on a chip in the system. Nowhere does it say whether or not the system is more proficient at creating fog effects over other effects. Plus, it's not from Wiki like you claimed it would be.

Like I said before, I don't care if you believe my reason to be illegitimate. There's not room for it's discussion. It comes down to personal beliefs, and nothing you say can change my opinion on the subject.

@Nintendoftw
Yes, hardcore gamers don't usually need/use walkthroughs (unless we're talking collect-a-thon games) but in a hardcore GAME a walkthrough wouldn't really make the game easier, as seen in Monster Hunter and Excitebots. And like I said, changing the difficulty setting doesn't make a game hardcore, but when you increase the difficulty in Wii games you usually have less health, take more damage, and or are faced with more/smarter enemies, same as games on the HD systems. Of course, none of that applies to any of the games I mentioned anyway. None of them rely on difficulty settings to be hard.

Again, all games require some amount of skill. That doesn't make the game hardcore. Hardcore games require a LOT of skill. Needing "skill in driving and accuracy with shoot" is not a lot of skill. Having realistic driving doesn't make GTA harder than anything else either. Last I checked, there were quite a few people who could drive.

"How can I say this without even had playing he game?" You can't. At least, not with any authority whatsoever. Excitebots is hard. Many games feature realistic driving, and many people drive realistically, but no game drives like Excitebots. It requires fast reactions, knowledge of the tracks, and practice. Lots of practice. Does GTA need practice to beat the game?

Please enlighten me as to what the glitches are in those games. I've played all of them and found none.

I never said you should feel bad about killing civilians in games. I said, and I quote, "Maybe your morals say it's wrong to kill civilians in real life, but okay to do it for entertainment in the virtual world, but not mine." I don't want to do it, but feel free to become a virtual serial killer if that's what you want.

BTW, I would love to see Mario Sunshine 2 on the Wii U or 3DS. The first was awesome, and it always annoys me when Nintendo acts like it never existed. That game was hard.

@SanFrisco9er Wow, umm, that comment really holds no water at all. By what you're saying that would mean that Halo 3, an exclusive to the 360 because it says so on the box, would also be on the PC, but it's not. That also goes for all the other 360 Halo games. Nor are Gears 2 or 3 on the PC. And if Gears is not the topic to be debating then why did you bring it up and use it as a point in the debate?

@TrueWiiMaster Lol Excitebots is harder than mario kart btw? ROFL... One game is only need to dismiss this statement: Mario Kart 7.

ANd of course you've never played GTA IV if you say the driving doesn't mean anything... You do know the entire game revolves around driving, right? Tell me, if driving isn't what makes a game like that hard then you get on multiplayer and try to dodge missiles from players in helicopters and multiple other cars chasing you while shooting at yours tires and through your windows... You will find it to be quite difficult without good driving skills (It's like one of the most essential things in the game, you do more driving than walking.)

If a game is hard, then it should be considered hardcore... Rather it takes upping the difficulty settings or not. And Wii games have some of the most terrible AI I have seen in gaming... Wii AI is almost comparable to some of the game I have on my DS's AI. The only thing they do is give you less health and maybe add a few more enemies in place of better AI... And since the Wii can't handle a lot of enemies on screen, the Wii fails at even giving you plenty of enemies.

@Nintendoftw
I've beaten every cup in Mario Kart 7 except for those in Mirror mode, and so far Excitebots is definitely the harder of the two. That aside, all I said before was that Excitebots was harder than Mario Kart Wii. I specifically said Double Dash was very difficult.

When did I say the driving in GTA wasn't important? I said that it having realistic driving does not automatically make it harder than any other game. The game might be impossible without decent driving skills but "all games require some amount of skill". Mario Bros would be impossible without the ability to use well-timed jumps. Halo would be impossible without the ability to aim your reticle accurately. But basic skills like jumping, aiming, and driving aren't what make a game hardcore! It's the advanced portions that are much harder to master.

As I said before, the difficulty setting debate doesn't even apply to most hardcore Wii games, as they're already hard, unlike most of the games on the HD systems. I can only assume the games you're referring to on the Wii with bad AI are a few of the FPS games, which are in no way representative of Wii games in general. In my experience, shifting from normal to hard mode increases the enemy count, lowers your health, lowers your defense, and/or makes the enemies stronger.

Either way, which is more hardcore, a game that's hard, or a game that must be switched to hard? A game that takes significant skill, or a game that leaves it up to the player whether they should need skill or not? A game whose very essence is to be challenging, or a game that's not that hard, but on hard mode strengthens the enemies and weakens the player, while keeping the same not-that-hard core intact?

@Nintendoftw AI is the developers job, not just based solely on the systems capabilities. Thinking with the restrictions that you have set, the Wii's capabilities being slightly lower than the original Xbox, how on earth is the Wii's AI even remotely comparable to the DS's AI? The only possible reason would be that the developers are not doing their job well enough. That is paradoxical reasoning on your part.

@TrueWiiMaster Have to say that is a pretty good argument. A game that is meant to be hard of course is hardcore. The PS3 has it's fair share of hardcore games in that case... I might have underestimated the amount of hardcore games on the Wii in this case, as the Wii has quite a few puzzle games and others that you would say give you a challenge... But PS3/360 games have their challenges too, check out PSN Store, plenty of puzzle games and games meant to be difficult there. I was also using Metroid Prime 3 as a prime example of bad AI. MP3's AI is usually what the average Wii game's AI usually is... But if you were to play a PS3 game you would notice enemies have the ability to pick up your grenades and throw them back at you, they take cover and don't just stand a shoot, etc.

And I also wanted to bring in the online part of the two consoles... This is a HUGE HUGE HUGE factor in modern day gaming, and will definitely be even bigger in the next generation of consoles. The DS's online play was at least comparable to the PSP's online play... But the Wii's online play is beat by even the PSP... And that is simply not acceptable. Wouldn't you agree that if Nintendo were not to get in sync with online capabilities next gen, the Wii U will be at a huge risk of flopping? Considering that the majority of Wii sales went to casual gamers and casual gamers all now have Wii systems already or if not a Wii system an xbox 360 with kinect that if Nintendo uses the same technique as last gen the Wii U will fail? Think about it... Casual gamers already have a casual system, why buy another? They most definitely will not know the Wii U is the successor... The ONLY sales Nintendo will get next gen is off of the true gamers... And please do not say a lot of true gamers bought the Wii, because it is widely known that the Wii is known as a "casual system".

@Quake Indeed that is the developer's fault, but the developers are who makes the games right? We all know Wii developers are usually lazy, making games like My Horsez and My Hamster..... So if most Wii exclusive developers are lazy and most of the HD system's developers spend years on their games, wouldn't that make HD system games more polished? (I don't even know why I had to explain that because we all know that HD console games are more polished...)

@Nintendoftw The "My (something)" series is purely made by Ubi, saw a large advertisement for them in an old Gamestop holiday catalog and a large Ubi logo in the corner. Though I've yet to see an Ubi game come out that didn't have its fair share of glitches. And Ubi is not a Wii exclusive developer.

I can't recall any Wii exclusive developer that has a game with many, if any, glitches. On the other hand I've yet to see very many HD system games come out without a large number of glitches, and they do generally take around 2-3 years to create the game. If a game comes out and has numerous glitches, popping textures, bugs and online lag it's quite obvious the developer(s) did not polish the game, and that is what the HD systems are primarily comprised of, games that are tested by the consumers who spent $60 on a beta. I don't think I've played a game on the HD generation that didn't update when I first put the disc in. I think that I only enjoyed Bad Company 2 to the degree I did because I got it over a year after it had been tested by everyone else, and I got it for less than they did.

@Nintendoftw
There are certainly plenty of hardcore games on the Wii that aren't puzzlers, the ones I've been mentioning for example.

The Wii may be known as the "casual" system, but that moniker was given to it by HD system fans. I seriously doubt the majority of Wiis sold were sold to people who were actually casual gamers as defined by the modern definition. Plenty were, but I don't think they were the majority. Many HD system owners, even if they only own one of the HD systems, also own, or have owned, a Wii. And of course, there are also plenty of gamers who bought and enjoyed Wiis, such as myself.

All the Wii U would need to grab those same casual gamers you say it will surely miss would be some kindle support, the ability to watch something on the remote and TV, and a killer new game like Wii Sports. They will not avoid the Wii U when they see features like these, even if they already own a Wii and don't fully understand the difference.

I can't say much about the Wii's online. I've never had problems in any of the games I played online. I'll admit that there are far fewer online games on the Wii, and that better/more voice chat would be nice, but from my experience I can't say the service is bad. That said, Nintendo does need to step up their online play if they want to reach the PS3 and 360 fans who so adore it. Of course, just getting the 3rd party games that have been out of reach of the Wii will instantly boost the Wii U's online. Games like Battlefield and COD, though not announced, are almost certain.

I think you're using that old, flawed definition of "true gamers" again. I would consider myself a gamer, and I'll buy the Wii U whether it's super powerful or not.

HD games have more polish? Compare the polish on AAA HD games to AAA Wii games. The HD games often have updates soon after launch and continue to have updates long after. The Wii games don't have updates (I know this is because the Wii doesn't do updates) and yet still have fewer issues than most HD games after the final update has been released. Look at all the glitches found in Gears of War and Skyrim!

This reminds me... what were those Mario Galaxy and Monster Hunter glitches you mentioned earlier?

@TrueWiiMaster Now name non-nintendo-related-games without glitches.

@Quake All I said was that game was mindblowing when I FIRST played it. What are you trying to prove?

@TrueWiiMaster&@QUAKE (anything XBOX:OG/360 exclusive HAS to be on pc) I never said anything XBOX:OG/360 exclusive is on pc.

@TrueWiiMaster Learn how to read & Get off my LEVEL! You're an elderly women? YOU MUST BE 24.

@SanFrisco9er The only thing that is dis-proven is that Gears 1 is not a 360 exclusive. Off of the second post the thing I dis-proved is that just because the box says it's an exclusive doesn't necessarily mean it's an exclusive anymore.

In the end mentioning Gears 1 in the context you did had no relevance to the discussion in general.

So it must be your personal preference to want anything that's an Original Xbox or 360 game to be on the PC as well?

@SanFrisco9er
Monster Hunter's not made by Nintendo. If you meant trying to find games not on Nintendo platforms that are glitch-free, that's pretty hard. Few company's put as much polish into their games as Nintendo and the companies making Nintendo exclusives.

You said, and I quote, "anything XBOX:OG/360 exclusive HAS to be on pc". In other words, any Xbox OG/360 exclusive HAS to be on PC. You said it, not me.

What are you even talking about? Are you still on that age thing?

@Quake Rofl wrong. Wii games tend to have TONS more glitches than any HD console game... Especially since Wii games don't receive patch updates... I encountered a problem with Bully: Scholarship edition where the gate was closed so I couldn't go on to the next mission... And NO wii games never ever take years to develop unless they are made y top notch developers like Nintendo...

@Nintendoftw
And do all HD games take years to develop? Many meet the bare minimum to use the word "years", as in 2 year development, and many use less than 2 years. Gears, COD, Assassin's Creed, Halo, and Uncharted all took 2 years or less to develop each sequel (I don't know how long it took to make the first games in these series, but every sequel came out about 2 years or less after the previous entry). And that's counting Modern Warfare separate from Black Ops. There was less than a year between Halo ODST and Halo Reach for crying out loud! If the some of the biggest titles on the HD systems get development times of 2 years or less, how can you accuse the majority of Wii games of having not enough time in development?

Of course the shovelware games on the Wii have plenty of glitches (that's half of what makes them shovelware!), and I've already admitted the Wii has a lot of shovelware (btw I'm not calling Bully shovelware; just saying that shovelware's where the "TONS more glitches" are). That doesn't have any effect on how many great games it has. The best games on the Wii generally have few to no glitches, while the best games on the HD systems tend to have several to dozens of glitches when released. They may get updated (though that doesn't always fix EVERY glitch), but you were talking about longer development time and polish before release, not fixing a broken game after selling it.

What do you mean by "top-notch" developers anyway? Of course that includes Nintendo, but does that cover Capcom, Activision, Ubisoft, and EA? I mean, Activision and Ubisoft have become pretty infamous for releasing games almost annually not just on the Wii, but also on the HD systems...

And I'm still waiting for those Monster Hunter and Mario Galaxy glitches.

@Nintendoftw You do realize that Bully was originally on the PS2 and later ported to the Wii, which would mean it's not a Wii exclusive, which means it has no relevance in this conversation. It's also worth noting how you mentioned in an earlier comment that Rockstar wouldn't bother with the Wii, but quite obviously they do have games on the Wii, Bully SE and Manhunt 2. By the way, Bully SE was also on the 360 as well and the 360 version has WAY more glitches than the Wii version. In this situation the Wii version ends up being the best version to buy because it doesn't have as many glitches, the 360 version was patched, but that just mainly fixed the game freezing portions.

@TrueWiiMaster Monster Hunter Tri: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_3FxjCwQWM
(Not counting many many others I saw)

Super Mario Galaxy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMoODFlJvaE&feature=related

ALL games have glitches, and of course HD console games are A LOT more polished than any game on the Wii. And exactly, the fact that a lot of good PS3 exclusives take 2 years at the last to develop means that they have plenty of polish... Wii games are pretty much last gen, why do you think it has so many games? Developers always say Wii is the easiest system to develop games for...

@Quake No... The 360 version of Bully was better than the Wii version in every way possible. The Wii version was pretty much the PS2 version with added missions... While the 360 version had added local multiplayer, better graphics, and all the missions the Wii version had... Along with better controls.

@Quake And Bully for the Wii is just a port of the PS2 version, I said Rockstar wouldn't bother developing for the Wii.

@TrueWiiMaster Of course the online part doesn't bother you much... I think the only reason it doesn't is because you haven't experienced how much online play does for a game system. The Wii's online play is inferior to a handheld's online play, which is just hilarious.

@Nintendoftw Yes, but Manhunt 2 was developed for the Wii and launched the same time as the other version, so Rockstar did bother developing for the Wii.

The 360 version of Bully SE at launch had so many issues that it was practically un-playable. The biggest being that it was so poorly developed it crashed just from playing it.
http://www.gamespot.com/bully-scholarship-edition/reviews/bully-scholarship-edition-review-6187502/

@TrueWiiMaster The VAST MAJORITY of wii games are sold to casual gamers... Look at Wii Sports Resort and wii music sales.....

@Quake All of that was because it was running on the old Xbox 360, and it was known for crashing and graphical glitches... Compare a game like Monster Hunter and LA Noire and see how the glitches pair up... You will find LA Noire to be the superior.

@Nintendoftw Not to mention the so-called coop is just splitscreen mini games.

Wow, first video of glitches I find for L.A. Noire and it shows how buggy the game is. If I can't even walk or drive around without falling through the map or the game freezing how can I even play the game? Not to mention the popping environment. And that game took 7 years to make.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMfo1YBmCn0

@Quake This shows that ALL games have glitches... And plus glitches like those are rare to find, as they aren't in the review... That game is more detailed than any Wii game ever made...

@Nintendoftw
That Monster Hunter glitch was interesting, but the Mario Galaxy glitch was kind of useless. Yes, it was a glitch, but you pretty much had to try to get it. The glitches I was talking about are the ones that happen on their own while you're playing the game, like those frequently found in HD games. So you've proved that Mario Galaxy and Monster Hunter have glitches. Even with a couple, however, they still have more polish than most HD games, which, as I said, can have DOZENS of glitches.

Since you seem to be targeting it now, I'll also say that Monster Hunter isn't very glitchy. Evidently it has the glitch you showed, but it has few others, and even fewer that actually affect gameplay.

I think you misread my post. I said those games, all some of the biggest HD games out there, all took about 2 years or LESS. Halo Reach, the latest entry in what many would call the 360's biggest exclusive franchise, came out less than a year after ODST. There were less than 2 years between Uncharted 1 and 2, and just over two years between 2 and 3. Gears had exactly 2 years between its 1st and second installments and spent about 2.7 years on the 3rd, with a significant delay. It's not that the HD games take at least 2 years so much as UP TO 2 years. And guess what! Wii games often take about that long, unless you're talking about the irrelevant shovelware again. Of course, some Wii games take much longer, just like some HD games take much longer. No console has specifically the longest development times for its games. Gran Turismo may have been in production for 5 years, but Skyward Sword took almost 5 years too.

I've played 2 of the biggest online franchises and I've never experienced online play? I know what it is and how much value it can have. Of course, I also know how detrimental it can be to the games that contain it, but that's another story. If you truly think the Wii's online play is so awful, you need to play Monster Hunter more than ever. Many consider it the best online Wii game to date, and it wouldn't be a stretch to say it's one of the best online games of this generation. And just because it lacks a gun doesn't reduce its chances...

Wii Music sold just over 2.5 million, and Wii Sports Resort sold over 27 million. But here are the problems with your logic. First, Wii Sports Resort appeals to more than just casual gamers. Anyone who ever wanted to really swing a virtual sword wanted it. People of all categories wanted to try the new 1:1 technology, and I'm sure just bundling the Motion Plus attachment sold more than a few copies. Just because it used motion control didn't make it a purely casual game. It appealed to everyone. Second, the 2nd best-selling Wii game (after the pack-in Wii Sports) was Mario Kart Wii at almost 32 million copies sold, and I doubt even you would say those were all casual gamers. In March 2010, more than 2 years ago, almost 10 million copies of Brawl had been sold. That's almost 4 times the number of Wii Music sales. The sales of a couple games aren't representative of all, or most, Wii owners.

BTW, the Kinect has sold millions of games just as casual as Wii Music. Is it also a casual system?

@Nintendoftw I'd still say that Skyward Sword is more detailed than L.A. Noire. But I suppose that also comes down to preference in a game. Realistic versus fantasy. Generally I would rather play a game that's fake over one that's possibly just another persons altered reality. If I want/wanted to be a detective I could/could have been one and it would be much more realistic than L.A. Noire because it's reality. But it's impossible to fight giant beasts/goombas/ogres/etc. in reality because they don't exist. Simple as that.

All games may have glitches but HD games have far more than the Wii. As far as I can tell you have to go looking for glitches on Wii games while on HD games the glitches generally find you. Like in that Galaxy 2 video, you must specifically point the cannon at a part of the screen and fire to get it to work while just from playing BF3's campaign I was knifed through a door by the computer just from taking cover behind a counter in a garage. And in another glitch a tank was still moving after it had been destroyed, the tank one was on 1.04.

I would say that most reviewers omit quite a few of the technical glitches in games simply because most are so obvious that it seems like it's impossible to not notice them. Gears 2 for example, that game had SO many glitches at launch and yet no reviewers ever mentioned them. Whether it was lag, using a two handed weapon while holding a shield, infinite ammo or invisibility, no reviewer ever mentioned any technical issues.

@Nintendoftw Bully SE was ported to the fat 360, they should have compensated for any possible problems. Also, why would playing it on the slim 360 be better than the fat?

@TrueWiiMaster Halo Reach has been in development well before Halo ODST -_-. THINK. Uncharted 2 was in development alongside Uncharted. COD Black Ops was in development alongside COD MW2. Most sequels that come out annually were already in development when their prequels were being developed. That has NOTHING to do with how long it takes to make an HD game. And Wii games don't take long AT ALL to develop. The only reason Skyward Sword took so long to develop is because Nintendo takes their time to make sure the game will be successful. Should I bring up the pathetic amount of space that Wii discs hold again? Don't give me how much space graphics take up on the disc, because in reality it is you who are overestimating the amount of space graphics actually take up on the disc. Wii games usually have no attention to detail... When I shoot at an object on any particular Wii game, it breaks and disappears 3 seconds later... If I were to shoot at say a vase in Red Dead Redemption, the part of the vase in which I shoot is the only area that actually gets affected, it doesn't totally get obliterated like on pretty much every Wii game. This is just ONE of the hundreds of details that really contribute to the gameplay experience in HD consoles. Wii games have the same attention to detail as there was with last gen games, sometimes even less rofl.

And this is another icing on the cake that Wii games do not have... The Wii lacks the processing power to have games that are comparable to current gen standard game. I can pick out a PS3 game that has a 6/10 and has more details than 60% of all Wii games rofl.

@Quake The slim xbox 360 is a huge improvement over the fact version -_-... I shouldn't even have to name the improvements, because if you don't know then don't bother debating it.

@Quake Skyward sword is nowhere near the amount of detail of LA Noire. Being a good game has nothing to do with the amount of detail put into it, LA Noire is one of the most detailed games on this generation. Everything down to even the facial expressions are perfect. And don't give me "Oh it has glitches" because EVERY SINGLE GAME in the history of all of the gaming industry has glitches hinder with the gameplay

@TrueWiiMaster You've played only TWO btw? Rofl. And Monster Hunter isn't even a contender for the best online of this generation... Lol you say that because Monster Hunter is most likely the ONLY Wii game that has online comparable to HD console standards...

@Nintendoftw
All 3 Modern Warfares were almost exactly 2 years apart, releasing in November of 2007, 2009, and 2011 respectively. Like I said, I wasn't counting Black Ops.

Interesting. So you're telling me that Uncharted 2 got it's much larger budget before they knew whether or not the series would be popular? It's also interesting that Bungie was making two Halos at the same time... and yet one looks far better than the other... Did they cheap out on ODST or did they completely revamp the engine and graphics in 1 year? I think your ideas might be a little flawed. Any evidence to back up those claims?

The 360 and Wii both have the same amount of space on discs (at least before the fairly recent update; I heard Xbox increased it somehow). If the Wii's space is pathetic, then so is the 360's, and many games are on both the 360 and PS3, so they only take a pathetic amount of space.

"The only reason Skyward Sword took so long to develop is because Nintendo takes their time to make sure the game will be successful." And why did Gran Turismo take that long exactly?

And you're telling me every HD game, or even a majority of HD games, have the same amount of detail as Red Dead? I'm pretty sure that's not true at all.

HD allows for more detail. That's basic knowledge. Or did you mean detail like shooting a vase and having it explode? That kind of thing isn't too common on ANY platform.

I've played 2 major FRANCHISES. 3 Halo's and 3 Modern Warfares, and Unreal Tournament 3. You think those games don't have good enough online experiences for me to know what playing online is like from them? I haven't played Battlefield, Uncharted, or Killzone (I have played Resistance, but only in local play) and I have no interest in Gears. Are those not the best online HD games?

Few games on any platform require the strategy and teamwork of Monster Hunter. Different classes and items can be of the utmost importance, and some of the online monsters would be almost impossible (not an exaggeration) without teammates. You see, the monsters available online are much stronger than their equivalents in the one player mode to make up for the team option, and there are several monsters which can only be fought online. I didn't say it was the "best online of this generation". I said it was one of the best.

I love how you say I haven't played enough online games to judge them, even though I've played 7 this gen, and then immediately claim Monster Hunter's online isn't comparable to online in HD games even though you've never played it at all! Just because it's on the Wii doesn't mean it doesn't have great online.

You haven't showed a glitch in Mario Galaxy that hinders gameplay... Just one that you have to go out of your way to find...

The 360 slim is better than the original (of course, the original was wracked with problems...) but Bully was made for the ORIGINAL 360. Any glitches seen in it while playing on the original system were glitches left there by the developer. In other words, the opposite of polish: neglect.

@TrueWiiMaster So you're saying that less than a year is enough time to completely revamp the engine that ODST had and add tons more to it...? IT WAS IN DEVELOPMENT ALONGSIDE IT.