Topic: NSMB Wii vs. SMB. 3

I think we all just need to Do the Mario together and hug.

No, it's not the minimum requirement. It's the only requirement. I really think the concept of a "goal" is simple. I'm not sure why I have to keep explaining this. The goal is to get to the end. What you do in between is up to you. Secrets are optional. You seem to be agreeing with this, but for some reason saying that you don't. I enjoy finding secrets, but having to go through each level after I've finished the game just to get these ridiculously plentiful things feels much more like work than anything else. Not sure what people see in collection quests, but it doesn't appeal to me, especially when it worms its way into every single level, despite only some of these levels really being suited to this type of play.

SMW's number of secrets needed to access Special World pales in comparison, and the secrets are all in levels designed as puzzles. There are only five levels on Star Road, and you only need one non-Star Road level to get there. A total of six secrets to find in order to reach the ultimate world in comparison with, what 160-ish in NSMB? And you really think this is the same? Yes, there are other secrets in SMW, but not nearly as many, most of which are in levels designed specifically for puzzles or in more obvious ways.

And my point with the SM64 example, which is not ridiculous at all, is that there are many things you can do with the game, but that doesn't make it a goal. The castle was clearly designed to be played on like your "playground," so I don't see why I need a coin to force me to go up there. Miyamoto wanted me to fly up there whether the game tells me to in words or not. But it is not the goal, just a fun diversion you are encouraged to do, if more subtly in this case.

I have no problem whatsoever with secrets, but it is not the goal of the game. NSMB is overloaded with coins, all of which you need to get the extra levels, and this is unprecedented in the traditional Mario games it is based on.

By the way, if you'll read Mickeymac's edit, you'll see that I didn't misread him at all.

SMW's number of secrets needed to access Special World pales in comparison, and the secrets are all in levels designed as puzzles. There are only five levels on Star Road, and you only need one non-Star Road level to get there...

Actually, for that final key, you're supposed to have thrown every single switch palace so that the blocks are connected, and several of those are hidden keys of their own spread across different maps, with no universal guide in the game telling you even where to start looking if you're playing for the first time. True, it may not be quite as much as finding the Star Coins in mere number, but it's not all that different.

And no, I still say that Mickeymac is more in line with my thought there, precisely because of his edit. He's saying that if you had to find those to beat the game at all, that would be a problem, but if (as is the case) you can "beat" the game and see an ending, but those are more like a bonus world or Special World, it's not a problem.

...unless World 9 is just the "Lost Levels", which would be fine by me. The GBA versions of Super Mario World and Yoshi's Island have them, and I have no intention of ever getting to them.

I'd say that they are very much like additional or bonus levels, if you don't need them in order to see the game's primary ending and primary boss.

No, you only need to hit the switch palaces if you're a big sissy.

I can get to Special World without a single switch palace, just going straight there by the shortest path possible. Still, even your way, that's far fewer secrets than NSMB Wii, and you don't have to get all the switch palaces.

Re: MickeyMac, I don't know what he means by "Lost Levels," so nevermind. The game is nothing like Lost Levels, which is why I ignored that part. You're required to get the coins, all of them, to play all the levels the game has to offer, which annoys me. I paid money, I don't feel like jumping through hoops, too.

I'm certainly not trying to be a jerk, but this thread makes me feel more and more like one, so I'm perfectly happy with agreeing to disagree (and doing the Mario, as I previously suggested).

My final point is simply that this has been a part of the series for a long time, and that the goal-only mindset does a great injustice to the cleverness of the design of great Mario games, where ignoring all the coins and going straight for the goal defeats the purpose of a whole lot of the design work that would then become merely decoration.

While speed-running or goal-only playing is a perfectly legitimate as a way to enjoy the game, there are many of us like myself who love the idea of getting a real reward for finding all the secret areas--it just makes it that much more fun--and Nintendo made a perfectly good move in my estimation by offering a whole new set of levels when you do so.

Re: Star Coins Discussion
I always found achieving a goal its own reward, so I never bought into the unlockable scheme. However, even for those who do, I don't think any series has handled the dilemma better than Smash Brothers, which gives two ways to unlock everything. First is by achieving a set goal. Second is by playing a certain amount of games. So if after failing to unlock something for a certain length of time (or simply not knowing how to -- or even that an unlockable exists) you WILL unlock everything by persistence and attrition if you keep playing the game for its own sake.

I don't ignore secrets. I just find some too frustrating to find / reach, and some simply not enjoyable to look for. I would like the option not to, but I still want access to the levels of the game I paid for....jerk.

Edit: And one last explanation for my dislike of the star coin system. Unlike SMW, there is no direct reward for each secret. I have to collect a world's worth of coins for one level (I'm ignoring the hint videos because a video of a level hardly compares to an actual extra level as far as rewards go, and even still you need three of them for each video). If I find a secret exit in SMW, I am immediately rewarded by a new path to a new level. I never feel like I am finding the secret just because I have to, there is a direct cause and effect between one secret and me getting something fun to do.

Super Edit:
Re: Main Discussion
After playing multiplayer (2P), I now have to completely reevaluate NSMB's place in the greater scheme of things. I could easily see this topping the rest. It is an absolute riot. Co-op didn't present any problems like some people claim. We rarely got in each others' way, though we also really didn't help each other much. Sometimes I'd assist him in a jump to reach a place we needed propellor for just for fun. Mostly it was just like two people playing separately at the same time.

Anyway, onto coin battle. This mode is weird. It treats you like a team and even refers to you as a "team," and yet it's called coin "battle" and ranks you at the end of the level. It's a lot of fun but flawed in a schizophrenic kind of way. This mode has a few levels specifically designed for it, and they are full of throwbacks to levels from the old games, plus the levels from the main game with added coins.

The best though was free for all. I understand now why the rankings were not implemented in the main game. This mode inspires just as much evil-doing as Four Swords. We would never have made progress in the main mode if ranked, so it is fortunate these modes are separate. If you're getting toward the end of a level and down in coins, often your best option is to throw the other guy into an enemy and then refuse to let him out the bubble... not exactly what you want happening in the middle of a boss battle, haha. The rollercoaster level is especially bad for in-fighting... but it sure got a lot of laughs.

Unfortunately World 9 is not available for some reason. Lame. Anyway, point is, NSMB multiplayer > SMB3. Single-player only would be a more difficult comparison, but taking in the whole package, I'm not sure SMB3 has a chance, and this is coming from someone who oddly enough loves games with alternating turns.

I think was just being a baby. NES-style controls aren't so bad in NSMBW.

@Adam

I am quite overjoyed to hear your evaluation of the multiplayer, because I have a friend flying in for a few days, and I was hoping for some good fun out of these modes. Now I can't wait; I love trash talking this guy.

Speaking of which, are you picking me up at the airport, or should I bring cab fare?

Cab fare, and please make sure that freeloader Iwata doesn't tag along this time.

I guarantee most ppl here that prefer the "newer" Mario games are younger in age than the rest of us. Notice I said "most". I think we need a roll call of everyone's age. I am 24, and have had years and years to play through all of the older Mario games. I still consider them superior due to their innovative qualities, and groundbreaking gameplay for the time. Super Mario World and SMB 3 will always be the pinnacle of the Mario series for me. Newer Mario games build off of what the past games built for them. Without the framework that was established previously, there would be no Galaxy or NSMBWii.

I'll be interested to see if you feel the same way about the separation of co-op and free-for-all after playing it, Wario. I was with baffled by that decision, too, until I played it. Coin Battle still confuses me, but it's a load of fun. I hope you two enjoy it, tell Iwata he's welcome over here instead.

This has probably been answered someplace, but once you clear the game (not necessarily 100%) do you gain the ability to save whenever you like, as you did in the DS game?

@CB yes you do in the NSMB Wii version after beating the game once

Rock on; I'll keep saving the harder golden coins for that then. Thanks Tails!

I'm 12 and so far (approximately 5 levels completed in each game) like NSMB Wii better.

I have to say that New Super Mario Bros. Wii is the best 2D Mario game yet. The only game that MIGHT be on par with it is Yoshi's Island, but that's not an actual Mario game. New Super Mario Bros. Wii combines the elements of all 2D Mario games [and even Yoshi's Island] into one awesome game

I'm 20, and I don't think SMB3 can really compete. When you take away the fact that it was released something like 20 years ago (so obviously I didn't play it upon release ), it's just not on the same level. Which game had the greater impact? Well obviously SMB3... but that's no way to compare, as these days it's practically impossible for a new Mario Bros game to have that kind of impact. What NSMBW does is takes everything that was great about the older games and improves upon them. Brings them up to the sort of standard we now expect in 2009. I think many of the older gamers are likely to be more biased if anything, as they're going to base their opinion of the game on the fond memories from their childhood.

It's like when people compare the likes of Bjorn Borg, Rod Laver etc. to Roger Federer. I think anyone in their right mind can see that Federer is the better player. That doesn't take anything away from the achievements of the others. But if you're comparing who, side by side, is actually the better player, then taking time period into account is little more than an excuse. Most things will improve with time, and if they're better, then they're better. Full stop. Sonic is one of the exceptions .

HDTVs may not have had the historical impact of the first TVs but they're better. They wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for the earliest models. But so what? How does that affect in any way whatsoever which is better?

Which is harder? Having played through both I would say SMB3 barely. But only because of the controls...

None of that really matters though because I love both games for what they are/were.

I understand the comparison you are trying to make zemulii, but I don't think you can compare video games to athletes. I think a more fair comparison would be MOVIES. Saying NSMBWii is better than SMB3 is like saying the new Halloween movie by Rob Zombie is better than the original. Or, you could say Transformers is better than Gone With the Wind or the classic Wizard of Oz movie. Are the special effects and visuals gonna be better? Sure. There are alot of things that will be better purely based on the era they are released in. However, if you strip everything down to the core gameplay, innovation, creativity, and game design, you will come up with a different answer.

The multiplayer in NSMBW is great, but one thing that annoys me is that the game freezes for a short period when someone gets hit or gets a power-up. It can really screw up a jump. On the other hand, it could be used as a tactic, but I avent tried that yet.
Anyway, i reckon SMB3 wins for me because of thhe more memorable levels (for me). However NSMBW has some ggreat levels also (8-7 anybody?)