Topic: Star Fox Zero - OT

@gcunit: Everything really. It feels like controlling the Arwing with 4 control sticks, there's too much input required for it to be intuitive. Like @VelvetElvis said; I constantly have to ask myself whether I need to press a button, move either one of the sticks or aim with the gyro controls. Switching between the GamePad and TV in the meantime isn't doing much good either. On top of that, there's plenty of action filled moments and everything just becomes a mess. I have nothing against motion controls, but the entire input system is just too complicated. I'm sure I can get used to them, but I don't think that it should take me a few hours to do so, especially not in a game that can be finished in a few hours.

By the way, is there any way to invert some of the controls and/or adjust the sensitivity of the gyro controls? I feel that adjusting some setting might be pretty helpful.

@Maxz: I know that vid, and that's the reason why they don't build bicycles like that, it's not intuitive. Of course, it's not impossible to control, and if you practise long enough you'll eventually get good at it, but I don't want to play games because I want to learn their basic controls, they should be intuitive.

@Octane: I wasn't arguing whether the game should be one way or another, just trying to give advice that I found let me get to grips with it a lot better. I'm not really interested in that debate as it's raging on since the game was showcased and I've grown tired of it. I wasn't judging you on your reaction to the game, or really even judging the game itself in my comment. And I certainly don't think bicycles should be built like that.

The point I was trying to get across in posting that vid was that trying to treat Zero like 64 is will likely prolong the feeling of the game feeling awkward, because you have an expectation that is constantly being twisted and broken. Someone who's familiar with 64 will likely keep trying to play Zero like 64, just as someone who's familiar with a normal bicycle will keep trying to ride an inverted one in the same manner. That was the only point I was trying to make with the video.

When I started playing, I focused on the TV view and tried to play it like every other Star Fox game, and it felt awkward and... well, very much not like every other Star Fox game. As soon as I started using the Gamepad more, everything made much more sense, and I was almost immediately able to enjoy the game properly.

Having stopped trying to play using the solely TV view (after my first run through of Corneria), it only took me about 15 minutes of play time in order to feel comfortable with controlling the game, and somewhere between 1-2 hours in order to feel actually confident. I don't feel that makes the game inherently unintuitive, but I imagine if I'd tried to struggle on with my earlier approach I would have quickly got fed up and frustrated.

I had to accept, even before turning the game on, that it was going to ask something more demanding of me than most Star Fox games, as shooting in one direction and flying in other is obviously mechanically more sophisticated than shooting and flying in the same line, no matter what control scheme you use.

But I'm generally glad it is the way it is, as most of the definitive moments of this game for me would have been impossible otherwise. Things like flying rings around an enemy (never facing it head on), and sniping certain parts of it at almost 90 degrees from the cockpit, and firing at enemies in a dogfight even after they've left the TV screen. And the Walker boss fights where you have to dodge and fire in various directions.

Anyway, regardless of what the game should have been, I hope you're able to enjoy it as it is, and I hope that the advice helps. It may well not, and I'm sorry if this comes across as pompous, but focusing more on the Gamepad did help me get to grips with the game, so I thought I may as well share it.

On an unrelated note, I'd just like to point out that there's not really a 'Silver' category with regards to level achievements; there's really just 'Gold' and 'Not Gold'. If you fail to meet the requirements for getting Gold, your score will simply be shown in the next available slot, which is by default, Silver. If you then play through again and do slightly better (but still not good enough for Gold), your new score will stored in the Silver slot and your previous score will be pushed down to Bronze. Basically it's just '1st, 2nd, 3rd', but the game has set a target for all the 1st places which you need to beat in order to get yourself up there.

I was initially quite chuffed about getting consistent Silvers despite being some way from an Ace Pilot, but then reality hit home. Although I was quite glad that my rubbish performances were actually just viewed as 'the best rubbish performance so far', rather than worthy of any merit.

So there is supposed to be a special demo for Star Fox Guard you can download from the eShop if you own Zero, but it isn't available for some reason.

@Kazuo: Well it says demo save data will transfer to the full game, so it probably becomes unavailable in order to no mess with the game save data

I think you are supposed to struggle with the controls. One thing Star Fox 64 did was require you to put time in to really learn the game. It was impossible to get gold medals or even finish the level with zero damage without practice. I think Star Fox Zero continues that. You struggle with the controls until you start mastering how to pull off the correct shots and fly the correct path.

@DefHalan I haven't even downloaded Guard yet though. (Got the digital version of Zero)

I think the main issue is perspective. One part of your brain thinks you're fixed behind the Arwing while another thinks you're sat inside it with freedom to look around. It's like playing a first and third-person game simultaneously so understandably it can be confusing at first.

A tip for those struggling: focus on one screen. Switch off your TV or ignore the Gamepad (depending on which you prefer to use), and press Select to change views. I've mostly been playing off-TV and find it easier to use one screen than trying to focus on both. At any given time my brain knows exactly where it is rather than trying to be in two places at once; for example, I'm sure most of you have played games where you can change camera angles and had little/no problem doing so while maintaining control.

Try to persevere if you can. I also suggest playing the training levels many times to get a feel for the controls. You'll soon be racking up high scores, but more importantly you'll be wanting to rather than seeing it as a chore.

I feel like Ace Combat and Gravity Rush did the 'totally-hype 1-on-1 aerial duel' concept better.

Is there really no other way to get behind Star Wolf but that one loop-de-loop animation?

@Monkey_Balls: i did exactly that, played the training level almost four times just to be acclimated to the controls and now i am having some fun. having said that, i now undestand the validity of the negative reviews. It does feel unintuitive and frustrating until you get used to it.

@Haru17: It was the same in 64. The setup has always been that when the specific Star Fox member is present: Wolf targets Fox, Leon targets Falco, Pigma targets Peppy and Andrew targets Slippy. There was even the same strategy in later games, when Pigma and Andrew left Star Wolf (some unrevealed time between 64 and Assault) and Panther replaced them the setup was similar: Wolf targets Fox, Leon targets Falco and Panther targets Krystal.

@diwdiws:
Ya I'm still getting used to it myself.

But, I'm having a blast. Even though I still have to kinda think about what Im doing, it's just a lot of fun doing it.

I find it odd that you guys simply can't get yourselves used to the controls by simply going to training mode.

I mean yeah, I don't have the game like you but from the sounds of it, it really doesn't look like you guys made an effort into understanding the controls.

@iceclimbers: So any news yet on the sales? I know I can't get it after a while but considering how Fates sales were revealed very early, I hope the same can be revealed for Zero as well as I really want Zero to do well. It looks like I'm missing out on a great game tbh.

I was having a hard time with the controls, but I figured out that having the cockpit view on the TV screen works great for me. Enjoying the game a lot more now!

I'm 40 medals through the game, with all the levels except one of the bonus missions unlocked. I've really quite enjoyed the medal hunt, and while I'm sure I'll have to resort to a guide to pick up the last ones, it's been fun finding them myself by exploring the game's nooks and crannies.

Some of them are quite inventively hidden, and the process of finding them feels slightly reminiscent of getting the green stars (and even main stars) in Mario Galaxy.

How is everyone else's medal hunting going? And what are people's favourite levels?

@Blue_Blur:
My technique is simply use gyro to aim curser on TV. The heck with the gamepad lol...

The only time I use the pad is in all range mode targeting a boss, or for a specific enemy that I need to hit.

Otherwise, just aiming while looking at the TV is fine. It tests your skill, for sure, but that's just the way I like it. The game feels challenging again. If it wasn't for this I'd be rockin the game blindfolded, since I've been playing this very game since I was a kid. Which, wouldn't be as much fun I don't think. I like the feeling of a challenge again. It's like playing Skyward Sword. Combat was pretty cut and dry, but the movement made every battle interesting. Best way I can describe it.

But hey, that chicken walker eh? Man I love that thing. Chicken walker = automatically best Star Fox ever.

EDIT
And is it just me, or was the music always this epic? I'm listening to the theme that plays on planet select screen and WOW. The music is just fantastic! I don't remember it being this good.

It's not just you. This soundtrack is amazing.

The soundtrack is awesome!

@Socar Still too early.

@IceClimbers: What about now?

Breaking should work, and is actually encouraged by Peppy, as well.

I have played through about half of the game so far and I guess it is my fault that I didn't read more about the game, but I feel like the back of the cover, that shows Pro controller compatibility, is seriously false advertising. Plus, regarding Pro controller support, who thought co-op meaning two people piloting the same ship would be fun? I mean maybe if this was Star Wars and you could co-op a Snowspeeder, but Arwings are piloted by one pilot...so...what the heck?

I will try the select button and try cockpit on TV for second half so I can enjoy my big TV screen (just saying I don't play console games to play on a handheld). I love Star Fox since SNES days, and I haven't played Guard yet. I've only played SNES, 64, and Zero; I stayed away from anything that wasn't flight-specific.

Joined this site just to read and talk Star Fox, and will post more after I complete game.

Here's 424 hits on Corneria 1. I wonder what the scores will be when all the tricks has been found out. 500+? 600+?