Topic: Super Mario Maker - OT

Just like how you're still complaining, yes, we're still arguing.

Not arguing, they are having a civilized discussion.

Getting to the point here and only quoting the bit which actually says anything.

You're saying it's a core requirement of the title. I don't think it is. If you're having fun? Well sure, what do I care. I couldn't care less how you get your enjoyment of this title. But I also think that anyone who says it's a "core requirement" of this title doesn't understand the point of this game.

I'll repeat myself. I don't mind that there are included levels, frankly I think it's a nice little extra. It doesn't bother me and I'll probably play through a fair chunk of them. All I did was ask why it's such a big deal in a game that's basically the Mario level equivalent of YouTube. To which I got an earful. Long rants about how I'm wrong to even suggest that the game would be just as good if the levels weren't included. Something which only adds to my initial question.

Why is it such a big deal how many levels are included in the game?

Actually this is an excellent idea. I think I'll do that too.

Ouch

That's your prerogative. Just as I haven't previously complained about your own personal feelings about this game (Although you just claimed that I've repeatedly done so, lol), I still don't object.

Again, I think the point of this game is to have fun. My mistake...

I thought I would've been able to stop you a half dozen posts ago, when I explained about sim racing and how we have plenty of people that just paint cars and rarely get behind the wheel themselves, plenty that spend hours making a detailed replica of a real-life paintscheme in-between actually racing, and plenty like myself that lack the artistic talent and just race.

Why do you insist on proclaiming what the point is? If I'm so wrong to think that the point of this is for each person to have fun in their own way with this title, so be it. But it's the attacking and claims that I've made statements that I never did, which I object to and have brought me back to this discussion after I thought that we had agreed to disagree.

lol

I'm the one that has been posting rants about how someone else is wrong about what they feel is important for this title to include? When have I done anything of the sort in this thread about your opinion that this game would be just fine if it didn't ship with a single level? That's right, I never did anything of the sort.

You're the one that has had to resort to a variety of rude responses and have continually made accusations that statements have been made that in actuality, never were even inferred by the other person [Edit: Well I did infer this once, I see, when I said that I wasn't "eagerly anticipating wading through loads of Super Mario Bros. level 1-1 recreations in an attempt to download something entertaining". But you had made me mad and I was being snarky.].

If you don't understand the point, you don't understand it. Is that so terrible?

Don't fall for the trap, folks.

you're both wrong, go away :/

@GoneFishin:
The game is called Super Mario Maker, the entire premise of the game is that end-users can create their own levels. Which they then share online. If you think the game is about the included levels and are worried about how many will be included then you're missing the point of the game. Simple as that.

1. The point is to entertain. Exactly how that happens for each person, is up to the individual.

2. I never said that the game was all about the levels that will be included, nor that I was worried about how many would be included.

Now that we've clarified that for the umpteenth time, can we please call it quits?

All I'll add is this.....

I don't understand why anyone would care that much about whether or not levels will be included. To the point where they'd get mad. Claim I was being rude about it. All because I said that the point of a game called Mario Maker was to make and share Mario levels. Or that I dare to suggest that the game would be just as good without levels "built in". I asked why people cared so much about it, you proved beyond reasonable doubt that some people care a lot

Well sure, there was a bit on one of Nintendo's sites saying that the game would only have dozens of levels. Rather than 100 as it was said earlier. I asked why it even mattered given that the main appeal of the game was the user generated content. Think about it, the game is called Mario Maker. It's right there in the name of the game that the game isn't about the built-in levels.

The fun that people will get out of this game will be the randomness of online. Some levels will be ridiculous for all sorts of reasons. The fun will come out of wading through the piles of user generated content. Being surprised by what people come up with. And if people aren't interested in this game for that reason? Well then I don't think they understand the point of the game. And maybe I'm arrogant to be saying how people should and shouldn't be enjoying it. For sure. But I'm pretty sure I'm right

I actually never got angry, just slightly annoyed.

You may not of meant to, but you were rude about it several times I thought. If that was unintended and I took a few things you said the wrong way, we're all clear now, I suppose.

The rest, I don't object to. Personally, I can see how someone could want this and have complete disinterest in the included levels. I understand how you feel, just as I assumed you'd understand my thoughts when you asked for anyone that views this as important, why it is that they care. I didn't expect you to agree, but it was very much to my surprise when it played out the way it ended up going.

For one final thought, going back to a previous example I presented, I know people that only did online commentary for sim racing (Some online leagues broadcast their races online). That's why I think it's a fallacy for anyone to be deciding what the point of a particular game is. People are going to find their own fun here, and that's how it should be.

There are going to be people that play the included levels and not do much more after finishing, those that just create level after level and share them online, friends going back and forth with creations in an attempt to one up the other person with a level that the other can't complete, people that concentrate on replicating past levels rather than designing their own, people that focus their attention on downloading the best levels, people like you that likely do a little bit of everything, etc.

That's the glory of such an open game as this, is it not? At least that's sure what I think.

I'll just put it this way, I think Americans and Australians almost speak a different language. Some things get lost in translation. When I say that something's BS I'm not insulting your family or something. I'm politely disagreeing using an informal vernacular. And if you're offended by that then that's also a load of BS

People can enjoy it any way they want, for sure. Doesn't make them right. If you're enjoying a game like Mario Maker for the levels included in the game and not the one bit that makes the game different you're doing it wrong. User creation and sharing isn't a secondary part of the game. It's the entire reason why the game exists.

It'd be the equivalent of ordering a meal at a fast food place and only having the chips. You can do that if you want, nothing stopping you and it's your money. But if you're doing that, I don't even....

A while back, someone posted a video about how Nintendo developed their original levels in the first Mario Bros game and how it carried on into Super Mario 3D World. I'm pretty sure it's in this thread but I don't know where specifically but I think it's a good thing to watch for ideas on how to create good levels.

Does anyone remember what I'm talking about?

This first part was in the E3 direct. They planned the levels on paper first. I did that in some way, too. And now I'm waiting for Mario Maker to show you my creations.

Since I'm going to make a level for each Koopaling, I'm going to make Morton's level a maze and call it Morton's Maze. It's going to be made with unbreakable blocks that are made like a tunnel. One thing I remember from the video is you introduce the concept of the level in a safe way at first so the player gets an idea of what to expect.

Here is one similar to the one I was talking about but if you have the link to that E3 direct, can you post it. It's was a lot longer and more detailed than this one.

EDIT - here is another good video talking about level design

http://www.polygon.com/2015/3/16/8227391/mario-level-design-t...

IGN posted another level, love this one

Does anybody know if there's a limit on how many doors and pipes we can set?
By the looks of it.. I need at last 24 pair of doors. lol

So who's gonna make a level inspired by Sonic? No? Anyone?

Some people are excited to play some of the levels they have seen in Trailers.

Actually you yourself said you hope the NWC levels are included and that you are excited they are so you actually do understand on some level what you are confused about.

More content adds value to the package, it is pretty simple. Why do they add so many modes to smash outside of the core game? The news of Over 100 levels included generated excitement in more people than just me because it adds value to the package; and that is a ton of value added. Dozens of levels is not as good but still pretty cool.

I'm going to try and not make levels that are "inspired" by any characters and just...well, try and make a good level that's good on its own merits.

Whether or not that is something I can do remains to be seen.