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Topic: Is Zelda's delay the writing on the wall for the Wii U?

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kyuubikid213

TingLz wrote:

Okay then. Where are the facts supporting home consoles (by Nintendo)?

Explain what you mean. Sales? Third party support? Game quality? Financial strain? What?

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LzWinky

Anything that can attribute to their success overall. The Wii was a bit obvious as it enjoyed a shockingly high number of sales

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kyuubikid213

TingLz wrote:

Anything that can attribute to their success overall. The Wii was a bit obvious as it enjoyed a shockingly high number of sales

How about the fact that they're still in the console race? That's got to stand for something. The quality of first party Nintendo titles hasn't really dropped since the NES/SNES days...people are mostly getting burned out on the New Super Mario Bros. series.

What about high attach rates? What about the fan-loyalty? The icon Nintendo is...?

I guess that doesn't matter though. Just sales.

Edited on by kyuubikid213

I own a PS1, GBA, GBA SP, Wii (GCN), 360, 3DS, PC (Laptop), Wii U, and PS4.
I used to own a GBC, PS2, and DS Lite

I'm on YouTube.

I promise to not derail threads. Request from theblackdragon

I pro...

3DS Friend Code: 4639-9073-1731 | Nintendo Network ID: kyuubikid213

LzWinky

It also depends on the context of "success". It can mean lots of money for Nintendo or just enough to get by, which the latter seems to be the case for most of their consoles since N64. Heck, I dare say "success" is just a subjective term depending on perspective.

Being in the console race still? Hmm, they seem to make enough to get by without pulling a Sega. But the problem now is that Microsoft and Sony hold so much of the market share that Nintendo may be pushed out entirely with no hope of return.

First party quality is a given, but that's more opinion than fact. Anyway, first party quality is only helping the Wii U in minor ways. The Wii U is selling in small numbers when compared to the Wii or even the Gamecube. This is with all the big heavy sellers that sold big on previous gens.

(On a side note, I'm burned on the NSMB series because it hasn't really done anything new since the first game, and I didn't even like that one)

High attach rates would mean more if the Wii U sold in higher numbers. The success here with the fan loyalty is that Nintendo has a following...BUT that hasn't really helped the Wii U's image overall.

Sales DO matter. A console can have quality titles and loyal followers, but those alone do not help a company enough. It took Nintendo 2-3 years to turn a profit since the Wii U came out. We cannot ignore that fact. It's entirely possible that most of that profit came from the 3DS sales, which are much higher in both hardware and software than the Wii U.

On that note, I also want to point out that press also matters. The Wii U has a bad image because of the bad press. Yes, we all didn't want to read that bad press, but it still hurt the Wii U and it's quite obvious.

Nintendo has to turn around their image with the next system, or their home console division is finished. The Wii U represents their ignorance toward the market as a whole. The market didn't want the Wii U and it is quite obvious. Nintendo can try new things if they want, but they won't mean much if the market doesn't want them.

Is the Wii U a success to you? Well that is up to you. However, we cannot claim that the Wii U was a success in the market with pathetic numbers and little profit generated for Nintendo.

Edited on by LzWinky

Current games: Everything on Switch

Switch Friend Code: SW-5075-7879-0008 | My Nintendo: LzWinky | Nintendo Network ID: LzWinky

kyuubikid213

@TingLz
So the way you see it the only way Nintendo can get back that market share is to either
A) Stop being Nintendo and simply become another underpowered PC like the PlayStation and Xbox, or
B) Leave the home console market entirely.

...

Welcome to the Nintendo fan site, folks.

I own a PS1, GBA, GBA SP, Wii (GCN), 360, 3DS, PC (Laptop), Wii U, and PS4.
I used to own a GBC, PS2, and DS Lite

I'm on YouTube.

I promise to not derail threads. Request from theblackdragon

I pro...

3DS Friend Code: 4639-9073-1731 | Nintendo Network ID: kyuubikid213

LzWinky

It's what the market wants. Sorry to disappoint

Unless you want another system with Wii U numbers...

Current games: Everything on Switch

Switch Friend Code: SW-5075-7879-0008 | My Nintendo: LzWinky | Nintendo Network ID: LzWinky

kyuubikid213

TingLz wrote:

It's what the market wants. Sorry to disappoint

Unless you want another system with Wii U numbers...

I just want a console that can give me great experiences with great games. I love my Wii U and the sales don't bother me because I'm still able to play Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Pikmin, Bayonetta, Wind Waker, and more. I have fun with my system. I even loved my 3DS when it was struggling and my Wii before it.

If the NX (whatever it may be) has Wii U numbers, that won't bother me as long as it still has excellent games.

I own a PS1, GBA, GBA SP, Wii (GCN), 360, 3DS, PC (Laptop), Wii U, and PS4.
I used to own a GBC, PS2, and DS Lite

I'm on YouTube.

I promise to not derail threads. Request from theblackdragon

I pro...

3DS Friend Code: 4639-9073-1731 | Nintendo Network ID: kyuubikid213

LegoNintendo12

kyuubikid213 wrote:

TingLz wrote:

It's what the market wants. Sorry to disappoint

Unless you want another system with Wii U numbers...

I just want a console that can give me great experiences with great games. I love my Wii U and the sales don't bother me because I'm still able to play Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Pikmin, Bayonetta, Wind Waker, and more. I have fun with my system. I even loved my 3DS when it was struggling and my Wii before it.

If the NX (whatever it may be) has Wii U numbers, that won't bother me as long as it still has excellent games.

Same here, the Gamecube and the Wii U are very similar and both offer great experiences. I hope Nintendo understands just because the Wii U is selling poorly that they still know how to make great games on the system. I really hope they don't kill Wii U till 2017

LegoNintendo12

skywake

TingLz wrote:

Okay then. Where are the facts supporting home consoles (by Nintendo)?

Facts ey? Well the margins are higher for home-consoles and they can make money on licences, hardware and software. So per-console sold there's more money to be had, it's not a simple x-units here vs y-units there. There's also the fact that every console generation has been about 50% bigger in terms of overall sales compared to the one before. Last gen was almost 5x bigger than Nintendo's "glory days" with the SNES. Eventually it'll get to the point where an outright loser in what is now a three company race will make more money even adjusted for inflation than the SNES did. Also the fact that gaming is moving more towards digital distribution means that the risks are much lower than they have ever been. All of these things are true for all console makers, if anything the market could probably support a fourth player at this point.

Also there's a bit of opinion to add. I don't think what is happening now is necessarily a trend. It's like with most competitions which run 4-5year cycles. Sometimes one side, or lets call it a "party", fails hard. Sometimes they fail spectacularly. People write long pieces about how it's the end for that party and sometimes it is. But most of the time things swing back the other way. Sure now it seems crazy to suggest otherwise, saying they're doomed is the fashionable thing, but things change. I wouldn't bet on Nintendo not being first next gen and I wouldn't bet on them being first either. We as gamers are an unpredictable lot, what's true now isn't necessarily true in 2, 3 or 5 years down the road.

Edited on by skywake

Some good Aussie musics: King Gizzard, Pond, TFS
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

Dezzy

The supposed higher profit margins (that I'm taking on faith here, I know nothing about the subject), seem to be one of the main reasons they persevere.
I do wonder how much more successful their competitors would have to be such that they'd get to that point where the benefits of owning the hardware start to lose out to potential benefit of just ditching hardware completely and releasing software for the PS/Xbox audiences. Can anyone with an understanding of such things do that calculation? Surely if it got to the point where Nintendo only had 10% market share, they should just go into software. Games like Zelda would do insanely well on playstation.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

crimsoncavalier

UGXwolf wrote:

Allow me to be the voice of specificity, as always, but can I just point out something in Aonuma's announcement that seems to have slipped everyone's attention?

"A release in 2015 is no longer a top priority."

Make no mistake about what I'm saying. Zelda U is most likely not coming out in 2015. Not by any reasonable argument. However, what does this sound like to you? Very careful speech. It's not a top priority. He didn't say it wasn't coming out in 2015. He said that's not a priority. This does two things: 1) It covers the likely possibility that it won't come out this year. 2) It leaves the statement open in case it DOES come out this year. I say we should expect Zelda U in Spring/Summer 2016. Not on the NX. Not ported to handheld, and DEFINITELY not on mobile.

Another thing I need to point out is that Aonuma said NOTHING about Nintendo focusing E3 2015 on 2015 games. He didn't even bring that up. He said they were going to focus on developing the game, which is why aren't bringing it to E3. This is most likely another cover. Odds are what happened is that what they were going to show no longer accurately represents the finished product, so instead, they're going to show the game off when they're ready to and not when E3 rolls around. (Believe it or not, these demos take a lot of time to put together and get more intensive as the dev cycle wears on. If they just made a groundbreaking change to the title this month, they won't have time to set up a working demo and there's no guarantee the game will be ready to show off, either.)

Also, someone's bound to bring up my analysis of the Zelda delay history. Yeah, I was wrong, but not in my analysis. Zelda U has only just now hit it's major change. Hopefully not as bad as it sounds. We do need to remember this has been in development for years, now. Mid-2012, at the latest.

And another thing! People seem to forget we've actually known about the NX since last year. Iwata openly stated that Nintendo is always working on the next system. If you weren't already aware, that should've been a big hint that the NX was in development. All that's changed is that Iwata's given it a code name. We probably won't hear about it until February at the earliest, and most likely, it'll be announced at E3, which is another thing! Have people forgotten how little Nintendo thinks of E3? They save things up for it because they know people expect a Direct at that time. That's the only support they show it aside from bringing their games to the show floor.

Someone talking about Zelda U with common sense? I won't stand for it!

This whole thread ... it's based on the assumptions that 1) Zelda was and is the only game worth playing on the Wii U console in 2015 2) there are absolutely no other games that could fill the gap 3) we know ANYTHING about the NX other than its name.

1) No. 2) There are 3) We know NOTHING.

Operative wrote:

I think if the Wii U was selling well, the DeNA partnership would have never happened and thus there wouldn't have been a single mention of the NX yet. The timeline would be all wonky you see. We are in the "Wii U fails (to sell alot)" timeline

There is absolutely 0 proof of that. For all we know (and in all likelihood), this deal would have happened either way.

Edited on by crimsoncavalier

crimsoncavalier

Nintendo Network ID: CrimsonCavalier

TuVictus

~Sigh~ I can't even make a joke without everyone taking it so seriously.

TuVictus

Henmii

"Is Zelda's delay the writing on the wall for the Wii U?"

Well, not persee. But the E3 no-show is! Think about it: Last year they found the game developed enough to show at E3 (just a snipped). They even wanted to show something 1 year earlier, as unbelievable as that may sound. And they showed a bit of fooage very recently on a award-show, and now all of a sudden the game isn't ready to be shown?! Very suspicious, you can just reek that they killed the Wii u version off and bring it to NX. But we'll wait and see.

On a side-note: If you love news about already announced/released games, you probably love E3 2015. Because I really can't see much interesting new announcements. Except for the new Starfox (maybe) and a few New 3DS remakes. Or maybe a new Mario and Luigi. But I don't expect much. It will mostly be already announced/released games, New 3DS, mobile, and Amiibo. NX (and its games) will be next year.

Edited on by Henmii

Henmii

crimsoncavalier

Henmii wrote:

"Is Zelda's delay the writing on the wall for the Wii U?"

Well, not persee. But the E3 no-show is! Think about it: Last year they found the game developed enough to show at E3 (just a snipped). They even wanted to show something 1 year earlier, as unbelievable as that may sound. And they showed a bit of fooage very recently on a award-show, and now all of a sudden the game isn't ready to be shown?! Very suspicious, you can just reek that they killed the Wii u version off and bring it to NX. But we'll wait and see.

It's a long thread, I get that, but why not read it to see that people already squashed that argument?

Maybe I'm the one being naive (seeing as I also said there was no evidence to point to a Zelda U delay, and obviously I was wrong), but there is NO evidence to point to a delay to the NX in any way shape or form! People are drawing conclusions based of little to no evidence.

crimsoncavalier

Nintendo Network ID: CrimsonCavalier

Henmii

"It's a long thread, I get that, but why not read it to see that people already squashed that argument?"

Nobody can squash that argument since its all speculation, also from my side. Its just my thought. I agree though about the "they announced NX to silence the mobile-haters" argument. There may be some truth in it. Though, if Nintendo is fully aware that its fans hate mobile, they shouldn't go mobile in the first place (but money.....MONEY!! Who doesn't like that?!)!

Edited on by Henmii

Henmii

LzWinky

kyuubikid213 wrote:

TingLz wrote:

It's what the market wants. Sorry to disappoint

Unless you want another system with Wii U numbers...

I just want a console that can give me great experiences with great games. I love my Wii U and the sales don't bother me because I'm still able to play Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Pikmin, Bayonetta, Wind Waker, and more. I have fun with my system. I even loved my 3DS when it was struggling and my Wii before it.

If the NX (whatever it may be) has Wii U numbers, that won't bother me as long as it still has excellent games.

Problem is that if Nintendo doesn't profit, then they will hurt in the long term. Sales will matter in the long term, because they determine whether or not you will experience excellence in the future.

Remember this: the Dreamcast delivered excellent experiences to fans, but Sega still pulled out of the console race. Granted it was due to incompetence and mistakes, profits and money ultimately determined the Dreamcast's fate.

You can certainly enjoy the excellence that the Wii U provides. I confess that I love my Wii U and its library. However, Nintendo will need to shake things up soon in order to make more money again.

Edited on by LzWinky

Current games: Everything on Switch

Switch Friend Code: SW-5075-7879-0008 | My Nintendo: LzWinky | Nintendo Network ID: LzWinky

crimsoncavalier

Henmii wrote:

"It's a long thread, I get that, but why not read it to see that people already squashed that argument?"

Nobody can squash that argument since its all speculation, also from my side. Its just my thought. I agree though about the "they announced NX to silence the mobile-haters" argument. There may be some truth in it. Though, if Nintendo is fully aware that its fans hate mobile, they shouldn't go mobile in the first place (but money.....MONEY!! Who doesn't like that?!)!

The moment a company only does what the fans want is the day a company goes under. They have to do what they have to do to stay profitable.

When there is no evidence of something, there is no argument for it. The argument you made was squashed due to the lack of evidence. Like you said, anything else is pure speculation and can't be considered a valid argument, because there is no proof.

The only thing we know for sure is that we have no idea what's going on. I just think it's silly to be talking like we now know that Zelda U is now Zelda NX or something.

crimsoncavalier

Nintendo Network ID: CrimsonCavalier

iKhan

TingLz wrote:

kyuubikid213 wrote:

TingLz wrote:

It's what the market wants. Sorry to disappoint

Unless you want another system with Wii U numbers...

I just want a console that can give me great experiences with great games. I love my Wii U and the sales don't bother me because I'm still able to play Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Pikmin, Bayonetta, Wind Waker, and more. I have fun with my system. I even loved my 3DS when it was struggling and my Wii before it.

If the NX (whatever it may be) has Wii U numbers, that won't bother me as long as it still has excellent games.

Problem is that if Nintendo doesn't profit, then they will hurt in the long term. Sales will matter in the long term, because they determine whether or not you will experience excellence in the future.

Remember this: the Dreamcast delivered excellent experiences to fans, but Sega still pulled out of the console race. Granted it was due to incompetence and mistakes, profits and money ultimately determined the Dreamcast's fate.

You can certainly enjoy the excellence that the Wii U provides. I confess that I love my Wii U and its library. However, Nintendo will need to shake things up soon in order to make more money again.

But Nintendo IS profiting from home consoles. Even the Wii U. They just aren't profiting as much as with previous systems.

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F

LzWinky

It took them 2-3 years to turn a profit though. Also, it may be attributed to the 3DS rather than Wii U. If they want to just stay in the green like this, then fine.

Current games: Everything on Switch

Switch Friend Code: SW-5075-7879-0008 | My Nintendo: LzWinky | Nintendo Network ID: LzWinky

skywake

TingLz wrote:

Problem is that if Nintendo doesn't profit, then they will hurt in the long term. Sales will matter in the long term, because they determine whether or not you will experience excellence in the future.

Remember this: the Dreamcast delivered excellent experiences to fans, but Sega still pulled out of the console race. Granted it was due to incompetence and mistakes, profits and money ultimately determined the Dreamcast's fate.

You can certainly enjoy the excellence that the Wii U provides. I confess that I love my Wii U and its library. However, Nintendo will need to shake things up soon in order to make more money again.

The Dreamcast and the Wii U aren't the same. Sega had no option. They didn't have the huge cash reserves Nintendo did, both the Dreamcast and the Saturn were bigger failures than the Wii U is and they didn't have a portable business to hold them through bad times. If they had been able to wait it out just a bit longer? They might have been able to take what ended up being Microsoft's position. Because there wasn't space for three in the 90s, last gen clearly showed there is potentially space for three or more now.

Some numbers for perspective:
MD/Gen: 29mill
Saturn: 9mill
Dreamcast: 8mill

SNES: 49mill, GB: 119mill
N64: 33mill
GC: 22mill, GBA: 81mill
Wii: 101mill, DS: 155mill
Wii U: 9mill+, 3DS: 52mill+

Some good Aussie musics: King Gizzard, Pond, TFS
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

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