@Pizzamorg
I watched that review earlier today. Having still not played it, can't form any opinion yet. But I did think it was a good idea the way progress carries over. I get what he's saying about, "learn where this person will be at this time, etc" and tbh that's actually how I though the game was going to be. But I typically hate rogue like games, I hate repetition without progress. Hades never did it for me. Returnal never did it for me. None of those games ever do it for me. I just hate starting all over again. Maybe that's fun for some ppl, but unless I see significant progress for my time spent, I lose interest. This game seems to do that part right.
Not that I'm particularly interested in the game, and don't have any plans to slide it in atm. But maybe one day I'll check it out.
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
For what it's worth, most Roguelikes for the past decade have had meta-progression systems where you get to carry progress between runs. Hades in particular has the very powerful 'God mode' that gives you a substantial benefit for each run in additional the regular upgrades. It's only the occasional throwback like Spelunky or Nuclear Throne where you'll face a hard reset.
Games like Hades and Returnal are also using the format for unique storytelling possibilities where the random nature of each run means you'll get a collection of fragments that gradually add up to give you the full picture over time.
They're obviously not going to be everyone's cup of tea, particularly for people who are use to the idea of a games where your progress is auto-saved every thirty seconds and the story unfolds in a definite order, but we're in quite exciting times for fans of the genre.
@chipia I just got X-Box game pass and stream everything via cloud. A lab top is totally fine for that and there’s a ton of great stuff in there for controller and mouse keyboard support.
For what it's worth, most Roguelikes for the past decade have had meta-progression systems where you get to carry progress between runs. Hades in particular has the very powerful 'God mode' that gives you a substantial benefit for each run in additional the regular upgrades. It's only the occasional throwback like Spelunky or Nuclear Throne where you'll face a hard reset.
Games like Hades and Returnal are also using the format for unique storytelling possibilities where the random nature of each run means you'll get a collection of fragments that gradually add up to give you the full picture over time.
They're obviously not going to be everyone's cup of tea, particularly for people who are use to the idea of a games where your progress is auto-saved every thirty seconds and the story unfolds in a definite order, but we're in quite exciting times for fans of the genre.
Eh, this is one of those where technically what you are saying is true, but I still prefer conventional progression systems, over a “you keep 1 percent of what you earned for the next run” style of many rogue games.
Like I say, Loop Hero is one of the only true rogue games that actually feels like it almost has a conventional progression system baked into it, as the way your power grows and evolves in that game is certainly slower than maybe your typical RPG but it is so much faster than any other rogue I’ve played, so it makes it actually fun (for me).
And this was the same with Deathloop, when you first lose all your gear I was like “oh no, not one of those games again. Does every game released these days have to be a rogue game?” But then you very quickly unlock the ability to carry over stuff you’ve earned, very quickly earn enough resources that you don’t need to really make too many sacrifices as your arsenal will grow very quickly and the whole time all of your story progress is locked in, so while you will be visiting the same locations and fighting the same enemies, your task is slightly different in the end.
But this is where I also kinda agree with Skill Up, too. It is a rogue game in sort of concept, but not really in execution at all, it is just all shallow smoke and mirrors. This is effectively a linear, mission based game, made unnecessarily convoluted with a bunch of uncommitted rogue trappings layered over the top. And because they’ve got this illusion, they try and get away with designing just four maps and one enemy type, as narratively and mechanically it sorta makes sense, but it also smells super shady, as without the smoke and mirrors, they would have surely had to design way more content for the title.
@Pizzamorg
I watched that review earlier today. Having still not played it, can't form any opinion yet. But I did think it was a good idea the way progress carries over. I get what he's saying about, "learn where this person will be at this time, etc" and tbh that's actually how I though the game was going to be. But I typically hate rogue like games, I hate repetition without progress. Hades never did it for me. Returnal never did it for me. None of those games ever do it for me. I just hate starting all over again. Maybe that's fun for some ppl, but unless I see significant progress for my time spent, I lose interest. This game seems to do that part right.
Not that I'm particularly interested in the game, and don't have any plans to slide it in atm. But maybe one day I'll check it out.
Yeah, Hades didn’t do it for me either. It felt really great to play, but I couldn’t even get beyond the first boss. I get that tiny increments of power carry over on each run, so I’ll probably be strong enough to beat them eventually, but it’s basically just the same as people who stay in one zone for hours on end in a JRPG level grinding before they move onto the next area, none of that appeals to me. If a game isn’t constantly providing me meaningful progression forwards, then it just feels like a waste of time to me. That is why I think Loop Hero is such a great answer for those who don’t like this genre.
@Pizzamorg@Matt_Barber Footage makes it look terrible, but it's reviewing well enough and, for $0.00, I'd be a fool not to redeem it in case the desire to play it strikes me at some point.
I see Outriders starting to get ***** on as people do their various 2021 wrap ups and man, just what a weird release that game turned out to be. Like it got off to a terrible start pretty much immediately with all the shadow nerfs from the demo to the main title, and then the game came with some of the worst glitches/bugs I have ever seen and yet they continued to spend time nerfing various things in the game before a fix was deployed. And granted it may have taken much longer to fix the various broken parts of the game and the nerfs were easier, but firstly, the game should have been delayed and secondly optics are so important, even if the nerfs were easier to do, they should have really held off on them until the fixes were deployed. And that isn’t mentioning the completely misguided endgame, too. Like so fresh off of the CP77 disaster, it was kinda amazing to see the Outriders devs keep fumbling in ways that seemed so obviously avoided. It felt like within a matter of weeks they had completely turned their own community against them through really poor decision making.
However, IMO as I know some people disagree, the first half of 2021 basically was a wasteland, so Outriders was really like my first proper 2021 game and with there being absolutely nothing else that excited me around the time, I ended up really investing myself in that game and soaking up the hype train. I knew better, but I just had nothing else, my life was a void and Outriders was the only thing I had to fill my void with. Sad, but there we are.
I ended up pouring hundreds of hours into that game across the demo and main game and in just a few weeks, I was done with it. I think I even took off time from work if I remember correctly because I was like FINALLY A NEW GAME TO PLAY. But after playing it well beyond the point of being fun and draining every last drop out of it that I could, I moved on and basically never looked back. In some ways, it not being a live service game was a blessing, but unlike say a Borderlands, there simply wasn’t enough loot to keep you playing. Outside of Legendary sets, there was no loot unique to classes, so across four different classes the loot poll was remarkably small and it became pretty easy to get everything eventually. Like I say, in some ways it is better than a game making you grind for hundreds of hours and completely busy work crap to unlock things, but if Outriders was going to make loot so easily obtainable, I really think there should have been more of it.
And so I do like think overall, it was saved by how bad early 2021 was. Had it come in a more balanced year, I’d probably have played it for less than a week on Gamepass or something and then just forgot about it entirely.
Beyond like addictive, FOMO driven, second job games like Destiny, I can’t think of another example where I put in above and beyond more of my time into a single title and for it to not turn up on my GOTY list and in fact, be a mostly forgotten part of my gaming year. And in some ways, that sort of makes Outriders seem like more of a disaster to me than something that was legitimately, fundamentally, bad.
Eh, I enjoyed playing that on release, @Pizzamorg .... It'd have helped if I knew enough people that played on PC to do the co-op with but that's hardly the game's fault!
Heatwave in Perth ATM so decided to drag my PC and plug it into the TV for the Christmas break. Have been doing in-home streaming from my laptop but since I physically can't use my PC in that room ATM for any length of time I figured it was best to just move it.
And wow, playing games in HDR on a screen that can do it justice? Very nice. Well worth the effort. Ori and Shadow of the Tomb Raider really shine. Makes me wonder why I've never done this before..... enough that I used my Christmas bonus to build a second PC to sit permanently next to my TV. TV now gets my 1660Ti, current desktop downgraded to something out of the "old GPUs" box, probably. My main machine will now basically just be for work, decent CPU and lots of RAM and a GPU basically just for display out. New PC will have less RAM (16GB), a low end i3 (basically a 7700K equivalent) and a 1660Ti. Then when GPUs get cheap again I can pick up something better
It really is a shame the Switch doesn't do HDR, we really are missing out on a lot not having it
Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"
Eh, I enjoyed playing that on release, @Pizzamorg .... It'd have helped if I knew enough people that played on PC to do the co-op with but that's hardly the game's fault!
Yeah, I played through the campaign with friends. This definitely helped because we could all laugh at the awful story/performances together. Especially since the Outriders dev team hyped their story up so much.
But when it came to end game, it didn’t actually much matter, the stupid “dash to the finish line” design didn’t end up promoting much teamwork. It was mostly just every man for themselves scrambling to the boss as quickly as possible.
My understanding is the New Horizons update removed the timer and restructured how rewards are provided and it sorta feels like too little too late, but I guess if this does mean new people come to the game, at least they’ll be able to lean into the role they have chosen for their class, rather than playing the whole campaign one way then all be forced into the same meta damage build for end game.
I thought the story was mostly pretty good, given it's really a primarily online game, @Pizzamorg .... I might have finished the campaign before they nerfed things too much, though! I'd played the demo about as much as was possible before the full game released, which probably helped, meaning I was starting after the prologue at higher levels than would be expected I might well go back to it sometime to see if the updates do improve that end-game part, though
I thought the story was mostly pretty good, given it's really a primarily online game, @Pizzamorg .... I might have finished the campaign before they nerfed things too much, though! I'd played the demo about as much as was possible before the full game released, which probably helped, meaning I was starting after the prologue at higher levels than would be expected I might well go back to it sometime to see if the updates do improve that end-game part, though
Lol, fair enough. We all thought the story was a load of old bollocks with some truly terrible performances, but that created it’s own enjoyment. I am glad you liked the story, though.
Yeah, I think the demo was a blessing and a curse. The demo allowed you to get burnt out on the game before it even came out, and all of the items were stronger in the demo, with extensive shadow nerfs - they either never addressed or didn’t address for many months - applied to every item going into the full game. However, it gave you a great foundation to really get stuck in from the ground running and start theory crafting those builds. It is just a shame all of those builds became worthless come end game because of the single focus it had at the time.
Guess I wasn't expecting too much from the 'story' in a basically online game, @Pizzamorg .... Considering I was doing it all on my own, it seemed good! It's a looter-shooter, you expect to spend a fair amount of time redoing the content to get all the gear, don't you? Seemed a lot better for that than some others I tried but I don't tend to play games like that much, so I don't really have enough experience to say whether that is truly the case or not
I think there is a real careful balance in a looter shooter. For example, in Destiny 2, some weapons required some absolutely absurd grind to unlock (some were quite literally time gated) and I never thought the rewards were all that worth it. Many of the Exotics in that game are almost hilariously useless.
On the opposite end of the spectrum is a game like say Borderlands, which showers you in loot so strong, so consistently, it creates a lot of short term fun but long term makes the loot feel kinda meaningless.
I think Division 2 had one of the very best loot systems I’d experienced in a looter, loot was fairly easy to obtain with only a couple of things locked behind raids/legendary difficulty and non-essential stuff at that, but otherwise you could get everything just by playing. However, because of the focus on builds and min-maxing in that game, just getting the item wasn’t necessarily the end of the story. Long after I’d “run out of stuff to do” in that game, I still kept playing, because I loved all the specific and nuanced builds I could create in that game.
Sadly, when Warlords came, it diluted the loot system to the point of almost worthlessness while also simultaneously massively ramping up the difficulty across the game to appeal to a vocal minority of babies crying about how the OP build they made made the game “too easy”. Like how ***** stupid can you get? But sadly, they caved and it kinda ruined the game. They’ve been slowly trying to undo the damage the expansion caused to the game, but it seems like not a lot of resource is being given to that game and it has effectively been on life support for the last two or so years.
This is part of why I was so excited for Outriders. I had drained every drop I could out of Borderlands 3 and Division 2, even with the changes I hated. I hated the direction Destiny 2 went in and gave up on that entirely. I burned through pretty much every recommended ARPG. Hell, I even played Anthem for a time. ANTHEM. I just needed that loot fix and Outriders delivered for a time, but the loot pool was simply too small and too shallow.
Outriders had a huge advantage over those for me being 3rd person instead of fps, though, @Pizzamorg .... I certainly don't mean I took the story very seriously or really paid much attention to the details or anything, it's just to 'explain' why you're doing stuff Instead of being 'go there to kill monsters, loot chests & defeat the boss or whatever to get gear/ crafting materials & earn money to buy/ upgrade gear & level up so you can go to another area with stronger monsters & boss to do the same, lol'
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