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Topic: Google Stadia

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Agriculture

OorWullie wrote:

@Agriculture That's true of course but if it manages to get all the big multiplatform releases all it needs are a few exclusives of its own. Something Google can easily get by buying up a few small talented studios and give them unlimited funding. I imagine games that take advantage of the massive multiplayer potential Stadia offers over consoles will be priority. Something like Fortnite but with thousands of players at a time. Pay off a few popular YouTubers and Twitch streamers to promote the game and it's a guaranteed hit.

That's the thing though, Microsoft already proved that you can't be good at video games simply by throwing money at it. Google as a company need to learn about games to be in that business. They do well with Android games, but it's not the same thing as the type of gaming Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony are big in. Stadia also don't offer any multiplayer advantages, if anything it will be harder to do multiplayer well since game streaming uses so much bandwidth even before you start playing against someone else.

Agriculture

NEStalgia

I don't have confidence Google can actually mount competition in this, or really any arena. Their track record for every service they get into beyond search and data/surveilance/advertising is abysmal. Their real business is selling people's data and always will be. Android and Chrome are means to that end. Their other service range from a mixture of abandoned/failed project that don't really exist, and rebranded, renamed, infinitely confusing niches. (How's Google Music, Google Play Music, You Tube Red, You Tube Premium, YouTube Music working out?) Then there's the fiber rollout that even Google's billions couldn't make happen to combat the Comcast/TWC local government chokeholds, and they abandoned it after promsing gigabit fiber everywhere. Now they're going into high speed game streaming.....without having actually rolled out said fiber to make it happen. It'll be a local phenomenon at best. Everyone's banking on 5G being gigabit EVERYWHERE! Not a chance. It's UHF and has a range of about 2 blocks. There's no way every single home in America will be within 2 blocks of a transmitter, and will thus fall back on 4G anyway, which certainly will never be fit for game streaming. This is one of those products about 30 years ahead of its time. If ever. Google will abandon in short order. They won't kill it, it will just kind of be "there".

If nothing else it gives a boost to Microsoft's XCloud in terms of marketing which is the same thing, but properly done, and only serves as an alternative to their traditional consoles. The people interested in "AAA gaming" as stated on the Stadia front page aren't going to care about Google's platform, and the people that might pay attention to a Google platform don't know what "AAA gaming" is. XCloud will be the more disruptive one, but isn't trying to replace consoles, and won't work in the majority of the US.

One thing to keep in mind is Google is the back-end for PS Now. The success of PS Now and how well it works (or doesn't) in many locations gives you an idea of how Stadia will work. Perhaps a wonderful situation for major elite coastal metros during off-peak hours.

@Heavyarms55 I can't agree with "if you want privacy, you can't participate in the world." That's not an option, it's being force-fed that privacy has been eradicated, and is no longer an existing concept. It takes a basic human essential and determines "we've decided we're taking that away, #dealwithit." No one has the right to do that. That's the thinking of a 20th century dictatorship.....I thought millions were shot/blown apart to prevent precisely such results. I suppose it was all for nothing after all.

@Octane Who wouldn't want an omnipresent international hegemony listening to every word they say, monitoring everything they do, and cataloguing and storing it, indexed and catalogued, in a central database that is open to any government upon request? Isn't this the future we always dreamed of? I know it's the future Goebbels and Stalin dreamed of, that's for sure, and if there's one thing we can all agree on it's definitely that the right side lost the 20th century conflicts..... thank goodness we're finally getting back on track. It's been too long since the KGB had their rightful place in our hearts and society.

We need a sticky thread for expressing how much we love Big Brother! No forum is complete without a place to express together how much we love the last defense we have against East Asia/Eurasia (mod note, update the previous for current conditions. Delete edit notation.)

Untitled

Edited on by NEStalgia

NEStalgia

Heavyarms55

@NEStalgia Hey, I never said it was right. But we elect to use these products and services, if we don't vote with our wallets, companies will. Companies aren't evil, they are just amoral machines designed to make profit and will never pass by doing something they deem profitable unless they are prohibited from doing so. Companies will glad "donate" millions of dollars to politicians in order to make tens of millions on our data. That's just the society we live in.

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OorWullie

@Agriculture Again that is true and it will be the biggest hurdle they have to overcome. We'll just have to wait and see. As for multiplayer though I suggest taking at a look at what Digital Foundry has to say about it. The way it's set up means multiplayer will be easier than ever and it will be possible to have potentially thousands playing at the same time,something consoles can't hope to achieve.

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NEStalgia

@Heavyarms55 We don't "elect" to use these products. Gaming, sure, but everything else, there's no other choice to be functional in the world. Try functioning, working, etc, while refusing to go online and click "I Accept" buttons to use services from Google, Amazon, etc. etc. That's the point. Our "choice" is about as much choice as telling Castro to shove off. Sure you do have a choice to say it, but the result for doing so isn't pretty. It's not like you can choose at 18 "do I want to give up privacy and participate in internet activities, or choose the off-line private lifestyle?" It's not like the Amish where coming of age you explore the outside world and then decide if you go back forever, or leave and join the world. You simply must participate, period. Then you're told "well you chose this!"

If nothing else we can be honest that we're being forced into this, literally by gunpoint, we just can't see the guns until we try to say "no" too much. Then you get to see them. Pretending it's a "choice" is is ludicrous. It's as much participation choice as anyone in Moscow in 1955.

NEStalgia

OorWullie

@NEStalgia I feel the sharing of our private data with 3rd parties is the least of our concerns. It's the sharing of our private data with Google Deep Mind AI that we should really be worried about. Google have said that it's independent but I suspect it's not at all.It's said that within 15 to 20 years humans will represent less than 5 percent of intelligence on Earth and as years goes by that number will continue to fall. However the genie will be out of the bottle long before then and it ain't going back in.

Edited on by OorWullie

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NEStalgia

@OorWullie I agree. The whole "google free everything" has, in reality, just been to seed the AIs. All the pictures stored and shared on the net have been harvested, every picture of everyone and everything on earth processed....now they can invent fake humans that are entirely believable out of the features catalogued from everything on the internet. They convinced us to feed every detail of existence to the machines....we were the data entry for the AIs, and they convinced us to do it with "free services."

I figure once that happens there will only be a few million people left on earth anyway. In WWIII the populations themselves will be the targets. Mass extinction is inevitable. We've already built our replacements with the machines, and those with power want a world that exists for their own kind alone. For the first time every they can actually have a world they can control and operate by themselves without the need for large scale labor via pesky peasants. All that remains once we set it up for them is to purge us.

NEStalgia

OorWullie

@NEStalgia Yep,you see things how I see them.I just wish more people were aware of where we're heading.Most of the people I speak to about it find it hard to grasp,see it as the stuff of science fiction or that it's so far off that it wont concern them. It's not,it's right around the corner.The 2020's and 2030's are going to bring about enormous changes to how we live our life.All this petty nonsense going on with politics at the moment is meaningless.If anything it is there to distract attention away from what's really going on.

The information is all there online,predictions and warnings from experts on AI,financial experts,computer scientists etc... One of the top AI guys from Google Ray Kurzwell who is excited at the prospect of Super Intelligence and Super Humans predicts we'll be merging with AI sometime in the next 10 to 20 years.As Elon Musk put it,"if you can't beat it,join it". Who will be joining it though,it certainly wont be us,it'll be for the select few.

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ReaderRagfish

Most AI capable of communicating with humans have said at least one thing that we would consider alarming or scary, and many of the biggest names in AI have warned that it could be the end of humanity.

As for robots stealing our jobs, I'm not too concerned yet. It's true that there are robots that can do some basic jobs that humans usually do, but buying, maintaining, and replacing robots is too expensive to make up for not having to pay it wages, not to mention the risk of it getting stolen or tampered with by criminals. Burger flippers are safe for now.

Still waiting for Atlus to make Snowboard Kids 3

NEStalgia

@OorWullie Indeed, it's rare to find people who really see it for what it is. The sad thing is "science fiction" was never based on futureism. The great sci-fi authors were mostly looking at history, and applying futurism to how the repeating cycle of history would likely occur with the advancements in technology. But the underlying root of most sci-fi is the past, not the future. 1984 was based on a blend of the USSR and Nazi governments mixed with a then-trending political-theory text that was positing the shape of the future of the police state and "democracy." Think about that, the dystopian standard of 1984 wasn't based on some odd futuristic thinking. It was based on the decade in which it was written mixed with a serious political theory text. And he picked the title of 1984 both because it was 1948 (the year of publishing) in reverse, and because he felt that year was right around the time it would become reality. He was too pessimistic, it seems, surprisingly. We didn't get the "Telescreen" (Google Home, XBox Kinekt, Amazon Alexa) until 2014 or so.) Now we're on track for his world. I've never been there, but I've seen pictures of the tourist attraction that is his old home. It's surrounded by surveillance cameras, some with facial recognition. A beautiful statement.

But everyone goes with "I have nothing to hide", "it's just the world today", "it will be fine, that's paranoia." These people must not read history. Humans with power do not change in any era in history. What happened in the 1930s-1960s wasn't a vacuum, it was the STANDARD when humans have a complete level of control and knowledge of others. And what they had then is nothing compared to what they have now. One of the most chilling (for the current context) regular occurrences during the Holocost was the "relocation trains." When Jews and other targets were removed, they were never told they were to be executed, they were told they were being "relocated" (because of course.) And that it would be better for them as well, not to have the scorn of the rest of society all the time and they could live separately. As they were all lined up, being loaded on the trains, waiting their turn to be sorted, some of the perceptive folks got the picture that more was going on than simple relocation. Some were aware that the last few batches of people that were shipped out were never heard from since. When they'd try to convey this to others (the thousands on the platform could have easily outnumbered the handful of SS guards stationed there) they were routinely shouted down and told to be quiet and not make trouble, not by the guards, but by the other people waiting.....they truly believed the relocation story despite the obvious evidence otherwise, and didn't want anyone to ruin that illusion. The naysayers needed to accept the system for what it was, of course, but it would be fine! Before they were loaded on trains never to be seen again.

Whenever digital privacy, AI, etc is discussed and I see everyone with the familiar chorus of "that's just the way it is now", "I have nothing to hide", "put your tin foil hat away, it'll be fine!" I see those railyards in my mind. It's all happened before. Today, there isn't a gas chamber at the other end of the "I Accept" button. But one would have to be a fool to believe there won't be just as soon as construction is finished.

Truthfully, I almost hope WWIII wipes out the majority of humans. I think that's probably a less terrible fate than the alternative of forced merging into some central consciousness, or even worse, pure maintained poverty and dehumanization for nearly all but a few. I fear one of the worst times in history to be alive (however briefly) is right around the corner.

NEStalgia

Agriculture

OorWullie wrote:

@Agriculture Again that is true and it will be the biggest hurdle they have to overcome. We'll just have to wait and see. As for multiplayer though I suggest taking at a look at what Digital Foundry has to say about it. The way it's set up means multiplayer will be easier than ever and it will be possible to have potentially thousands playing at the same time,something consoles can't hope to achieve.

I guess there's some benefit to having the computers were the action happens be near each other. Cheating will also probably be a lot harder.

Agriculture

NEStalgia

@subpopz "This is sounding more and more like something Google will be abandoning when it isn't an immediate success."

Doesn't that apply to nearly everything Google ever releases not tied to search/data harvesting?

NEStalgia

MrGawain

To me beyond the tech/broadband speed working reality, the success of this all comes down to how much profit is in it for the publishers, and will it make it cheaper for the consumer? If you told EA and alike they could earn twice as much money on this service then they would abandon Sony and MS in a second- but I question if they really can earn more money being beholden to Google? Spotify and Apple Music famously are stingy to the artists that share their music on those sites, and I can see a similar issue happening here. They’ll still expect their massive profits, so the consumer will have to pay a fair bit to keep both Google and the publishers happy.

And you know Microsoft, Sony, Steam, Apple, and Facebook will all bring their own versions out, plus I wouldn’t be surprised if EA, Ubisoft and some of the rest set up their own apps and cut out the middleman. And you can bet they’ll all try to win us over with exclusives. So instead of having 4 choices of what to play on, you’ll have the good games split 7-15 ways.

It’s going to happen, but I don’t think it’s a good thing for the consumer.

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CanisWolfred

@MrGawain This man's asking the right questions. So far, there hasn't been a lot of announced support for the Stadia platform yet. Sure, they showed licenses on a big infograph, and some potential technology, but if they had publishers lining up, they'd have said something. Sony & Microsoft had their first-party titles to beef up their streaming platforms' line-ups, but they still got a fair amount of third-parties on-board from the get-go, too, as far as I can tell. Those companies had connections, relationships, and pre-established fanbases that go back decades. The Stadia will be fighting an uphill battle to get content on their platform, let alone consumer interest.

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Dezzy

kkslider5552000 wrote:

Dezzy wrote:

Don't forget Nintendos contributions. Motion controls

don't use examples that actually succeeded

they're not the definitive future of gaming but they've actually stuck around beyond the wii trend and in regular (often positive) discussion for Switch and Playstation VR (aka the only gaming VR that seems to have even the tiniest chance of succeeding beyond a small niche eventually), they clearly don't qualify

I'll give you VR motion controls. But I do think those are functionally different, if not technologically different, because their necessity derives from the headset and the fact that your head and arms often move in sync. That is different than just motion controls by themselves, which I think Switch joycons are the only current example, and those are being basically ignored by most developers and Nintendo.

As things are going at the moment, I don't think they'll include them with the next Nintendo console. I wouldn't be surprised if they even made a Switch Lite without the joycons.

Edited on by Dezzy

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

Octane

@subpopz It's definitely one of the reasons why I want to see the whole thing crash like a Wii U hype train in 2016. Knowing Google, they'll buy themselves a way into the market. Look at what Epic is doing with their storefront. They're buying up exclusives left and right. Doesn't matter if it's profitable, they have the money, and these big companies can do whatever they want.

Octane

Galarian_Lassie

@Dezzy When 8 out of 10 of Nintendo Switch’s best selling games (published by Nintendo) use motion controls in some way (whether optional or not), I can’t see motion controls going away any time soon.
EDIT: For clarity purposes

Edited on by Galarian_Lassie

Where am I going! Nowhere, unless if I say otherwise!

Dezzy

@Galarian_Lassie

Those were all on the Wii. There's been nothing since then, and a lot of the people who bought that console were casuals who never bought another console.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

Heavyarms55

@NEStalgia It's impractical and difficult certainly but people can and do survive outside of this system. Not remotely like 1950s Russia. No one is getting whisked away into concentration camps for dissent or murdered for political ideologies. At least not yet.

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Galarian_Lassie

Dezzy wrote:

@Galarian_Lassie

Those were all on the Wii. There's been nothing since then, and a lot of the people who bought that console were casuals who never bought another console.

*On Nintendo Switch
Required to Play The Game At All
1-2 Switch
Super Mario Party
Pokémon Let’s Go (Even in Handheld Mode Gyroscopic Controls Are Needed)
Required to 100% The Game
-LoZ BoTW
Optional
-SMO
-MK8 DX
-S2
-MT Aces
Only Kirby and SSBUltimate do not use any type of motion controls in the top 10 best selling Nintendo published Switch titles.

Where am I going! Nowhere, unless if I say otherwise!

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