Topic: Xenoblade Chronicles 3

@Tyranexx I constantly have flashbacks to that one area you're talking about. That dungeon has the best music but the worst mechanics.

I liked pouch items, at least once I'd figured out the good ones. Load up on the desserts, or anything else that boosts the arts recharge, and the fights go so much quicker. Most of the people who complain about the combat being slow usually turn out to have been using poor choices for them or none at all. You could still finish the game that way, but it'd be painful.

I'd think the field skills were fine for things like the merc missions and getting bonus items when gathering. Skill checks just seems a cheap way of gating progress when they could have had something that'd do more for the story like having to battle a mini-boss or go looking for a key item. There's so much in the Xeno series that's done well that way too.

At least there's nothing in the main story that you can't just pass by leveling up the guaranteed blades. Side quests involving rare blades are another matter though.

Anyway, Monolith aren't ones to rest on their laurels so I'll be expecting substantially revamped systems in the new game.

Oh dang I missed the "sexualization" discussion that sparked because of nintendolife instigating it with the out of context article showing the ERSB rating.
Not trying to start an argument just want to post my thoughts.

The sexualization of XC2 is so overblown it's honestly getting annoying. Most people that make such an uproar about it haven't played the game let alone the series and the comments from the article really make it obvious, some comments unironically called Poppi and Pyra/Mythra sex slaves which is hilarious. Another thing is that this isn't anything new, the xenoblade series always had forms of fanservice in multiple ways and people that deny that either haven't played the game or just chose to ignore it. XC1's armour for example was just as revealing as some XC2 blade designs.
Sure you could make the argument they're optional - at least in DE's case but for the people like me that grew up with the Wii or n3DS version there was no option to layer armour and apperances, so seeing the "sexualized" outfits was inevitable. Anyone just equipping Sharla, Fiora, or Melia with a different armour piece is bound to see those revealing armour sets (which there are plenty by the way).
Especially Fiora - all of her armour sets look ridiculous and armor more revealing than most if not all designs in XC2 which honestly have no business doing so since she's supposed to be a cyborg...

Now onto XCX I would argue this game has the most "fanservice" in the series by a significant amount.
It has all the things that people complain about for XC2 and more, there are a bunch of risque camera shots of female characters - Goetia is a great example of this, the first thing you see of her is basically her ass lmao, you can literally just look up "xenoblade x goetia" and you'll see what I'm referring to.
Also armour is even more "fanservicey in this entry than XC1 and XC2, with micro bikinis, bunny suits, and just overall more revealing armour, which you could also dress up Lin in, a 13 year old character in the game... again you can make the argument that its optional but the fact that it exists at all is gross and proves my point.
And thats not all there was also the breast slider that was removed in the western release.

Also before you say no I wasn't using this as an opportunity to trash on the other games, I started with XC1 then moved onto 2 and Torna and loved all of them. I'm just pointing putting things into perspective how "fanservice" was always prevalent in the series. Most of the things that are complained about with a couple exceptions are just mild at best and just a common occurrence in the JRPG genre, if XC2 strikes people as problematic or too fanservice ridden, then they need to play more games to sum it up.

As for the "up in your face moments" with the fanservice like camera shots and the such I genuinely don't remember many scenes that were in your face about it. Sure there was the shot of Rex waking up which everyone jokes about, Mythra being asleep but besides that it feels heavily exaggerated as I said earlier.

To end this - I played XC2 and enjoyed it a lot, and I didn't let some scenes or designs ruin my experience with the game in the slightest and no one should, some designs are bad yeah but the characters are still well written, the story is great, combat amazing etc.
Sure the fanservice probably tainted the reception of the game but in all honestly the people bandwagoning on it probably weren't going to buy the game in the first place.

I do acknowledge that the designs are looking a lot more consistent in XC3 which makes me happy.

@iLikeUrAttitude The fact that the fanservice in XCX was screwy doesn't really negate XC2's from being even more in your face.

XC1 managed decently well to balance fanservice with the story (the worst you've got is several of Fiora's somewhat-optional armor sets, as mentioned). Most of the rest of it (Sharla and Reyn's default outfits and some armor sets, and a few of Melia's armor sets) may show skin, but fit the aesthetic of the world and the characters. After all, fanservice isn't an issue in and of itself.

XCX... definitely has issues too. Clearly even Monolith realized they went too far with Lin, given they aged her up two years and gave her a less revealing outfit in the west. But (as far as I've played) the game doesn't break the story in order to add more fanservice at least.

And the fact that XC2's issues are common in the JRPG genre isn't an excuse. I expect better from Xenoblade then other series, especially after XC1 managed to handle the fanservice much better than most of it's contemporaries. I really don't need discussion of sexual topics by minors in my games, please and thank you (that one thing with Rex and Nia at Mor Ardain in particular went too far).

All that aside? Of course I love XC2, and it didn't ruin my experience. But the issues with fanservice had me hold back on recommending it to anyone else to play, unlike XC1, and rank among reasons I prefer the first one. (XC2's terrible performance issues and Gacha system are both much bigger reasons of course). I'm preparing to do a NG+ run of 2 ahead of XC3 anyways, so...

XC2's isnt anywhere close to 'more in your face' compared to XCX's with its fanservice . X does everything you're claiming 2 does and more.

XC1 managed decently well to balance fanservice with the story (the worst you've got is several of Fiora's somewhat-optional armor sets, as mentioned). Most of the rest of it (Sharla and Reyn's default outfits and some armor sets, and a few of Melia's armor sets) may show skin, but fit the aesthetic of the world and the characters. After all, fanservice isn't an issue in and of itself.

Sure it wasn't 'up in your face' about it as much as X or 2 but the fact that its still present at proves my point. Also no, I was merely using Fiora as an example most of the female armor in general are revealing for the main cast (Sharla, Fiora and Melia).
Sure they fit the aesthetic? But that doesn't make it any better.

XCX... definitely has issues too. Clearly even Monolith realized they went too far with Lin, given they aged her up two years and gave her a less revealing outfit in the west.

Aging up a 13 year old up 2 years is hardly any better, it's still a minor you can dress up in revealing outfits which are still present, just censored a bit.

But (as far as I've played) the game doesn't break the story in order to add more fanservice at least

Neither does 2.

And the fact that XC2's issues are common in the JRPG genre isn't an excuse. I expect better from Xenoblade then other series,

I think saying you expect better while acknowledging the things I mentioned exist
in the previous games is a bit dishonest or delusional...

especially after XC1 managed to handle the fanservice much better than most of it's contemporaries.

This feels like a low bar Im not gonna lie.

I really don't need discussion of sexual topics by minors in my games, please and thank you (that one thing with Rex and Nia at Mor Ardain in particular went too far).

You're going to have to be more specific about this part.

All that aside? Of course I love XC2, and it didn't ruin my experience. But the issues with fanservice had me hold back on recommending it to anyone else to play, unlike XC1, and rank among reasons I prefer the first one. (XC2's terrible performance issues and Gacha system are both much bigger reasons of course). I'm preparing to do a NG+ run of 2 ahead of XC3 anyways, so...

Well if those minor things didn't ruin your experience, whos the day that it will for the people you want to recommend it to?
You shouldn't be afraid to recommend a game just for those reasons.

I don't understand why people have an issue with XC2. Those who don't like it must not be into anime. And it is an anime type of game.

@iLikeUrAttitude ...I think you absolutely don't understand my issue. I don't mind fanservice in games. I may have absolutely no interest in female fanservice, but I don't mind it.

My issue is with fanservice that either actively takes me out of the experience or sexualizes minors. In XC2, there's several points where both things happen. There's things like Pyra admonishing Poppi's modesty in a super skimpy outfit (as posted on the other page), incredibly contrived scenes with Rex pissing of Mythra, a few of the screwy Blade Quests (Sheba creeped me right out).

Also, I've avoided mentioning it, but Nia's true form... what the heck? Between her, Mythra, and Pyra, three of the main cast are dressed in ways by default that intrinsically conflict with their personality. Even Poppi Beta and Gamma don't annoy me that much since they actually fit into the story. And worst of all, no one in-universe ever acknowledges that something feels off. Now, not all fanservice in this game has issues. Brighid and Pandoria both dress in ways that feel consistent with their characters, despite being fanservice.

...And I still don't see what's wrong with me having higher standards for Xenoblade than what XC2 was is, just because both previous games had some issues (mainly XCX, and again, I haven't actually played the parts you're referring to).

And of course I'm afraid to recommend a game for those reasons! I hate to say it, but most people won't play long enough to get past the early wave of 'this game is making me feel incredibly uncomfortable and also not explaining combat and also has gacha and also is genuinely difficult to see what's going on in the first city (Gormott)' to actually see how good it can be. If it was just the fanservice, then yeah, but combined with the other serious issues, and how bad the first 20-30 hours of the game are compared to the rest (I was miserable slogging through the opening of the game until we got to Uraya, where it started to pick up significantly), it's a super hard sell.

That's not to say that I've never tried to recommend it, but I always end up giving so many warnings that I actually end up scaring people off.

edit: @TommyTendo depends what anime. I mean, I love Utena, Full Metal Alchemist, Cardcaptor Sakura, Fruits Basket, Hunter X Hunter, Demon Slayer, Seraph of the End etc... not all anime is 'fanservice for the sake of fanservice'. In fact, most of the memorable stuff isn't (...most). And it can cover so many varied genres (even if my list was limited). Kind of hard to say someone 'doesn't like anime' as an absolute.

@VoidofLight Ugh, yes. Originally I liked that dungeon, but it seemed to drag on...and on...and on....Not to mention I did have to look up how to progress at one point before the field skills gate, which I don't like doing unless I'm truly stuck.

@TommyTendo I mean, Xenoblade 1 was also a more "Anime" type of game. It relies on Shonen tropes. However, it's just something about it that I just like more than 2.. mainly in terms of the story execution and humor I think.

Personally, I don't hate sexualization or fanservice. I just don't like how 2 does it in comparison to the other games, and how it feels more in your face during the story. Like Link said, there's lines that come across as a bit hypocritical from some of the characters thanks to their designs.

I'm sorry but you did not give that impression at all in your previous comment. You definitely seem bothered by it and the fanservice was the vocal point of your response.

My issue is with fanservice that either actively takes me out of the experience or sexualizes minors. In XC2, there's several points where both things happen. There's things like Pyra admonishing Poppi's modesty in a super skimpy outfit (as posted on the other page), incredibly contrived scenes with Rex pissing of Mythra, a few of the screwy Blade Quests (Sheba creeped me right out).

There is obviously sexualization but I genuinely can only think of a handful of instances where it's truly detracting from the story at hand, like Mythra sleepwalking, Rex waking up. But stuff like that is only for the first few chapters of the game. XC2 knows when to be serious and has plenty of scenes and I didn't ever feel like any worth was being taken out of them.
The examples you mentioned don't fit in line from what you're describing to me. I don't see any sexualization of minors and with Pyra talking to Poppi about modesty that was just an obvious ironic joke that was from a single text bubble of dialogue that you most people would forget a few minutes after seeing the joke. With Rex pissing off Mythra whether its in the story or the optional sidequests for blades those are also jokes. Albeit meh ones but still.

Also, I've avoided mentioning it, but Nia's true form... what the heck? Between her, Mythra, and Pyra, three of the main cast are dressed in ways by default that intrinsically conflict with their personality. Even Poppi Beta and Gamma don't annoy me that much since they actually fit into the story.

And worst of all, no one in-universe ever acknowledges that something feels off.

Well this part certainly isn't true since they're plenty of self aware jokes about Mythra/Pyra's outfits being revealing, heck you called it out yourself with the modesty joke with Poppi and Pyra. The sleepwalking scene with Mythra as mentioned earlier is another example, Azurda outright says that Mythra's outfit is revealing then Dromach follows it up with "Pot, meet kettle".

...And I still don't see what's wrong with me having higher standards for Xenoblade than what XC2 was is, just because both previous games had some issues (mainly XCX, and again, I haven't actually played the parts you're referring to).

Well that's completely fine then it's fair to expect more from a franchise you like as well as criticize it so it can improve, I do this all the time.

And of course I'm afraid to recommend a game for those reasons! I hate to say it, but most people won't play long enough to get past the early wave of 'this game is making me feel incredibly uncomfortable and also not explaining combat and also has gacha and also is genuinely difficult to see what's going on in the first city (Gormott)' to actually see how good it can be. If it was just the fanservice, then yeah, but combined with the other serious issues, and how bad the first 20-30 hours of the game are compared to the rest (I was miserable slogging through the opening of the game until we got to Uraya, where it started to pick up significantly), it's a super hard sell.

Well I don't mean any disrespect from this, but this just sound like you're being unnecessarily insecure about a game you enjoy. And since this discussion is mostly subjective about the fanservice or anecdotal for lack of a better term, it's hard to tell how many people will be turned off by the things we're mentioning. Some people won't be bothered by the fanservice others won't be. But considering that XC2 is the best selling game in the franchise I think it's safe to make the assumption that the fanservice parts of the game weren't detrimental and most of the playerbase still enjoyed the game regardless and for the people on social media making an uproar about the designs probably weren't going to play the game in the first place. But I think what did put off a lot of people a lot more so were the tutorials for the game which are objectively horrible. From my anecdotal experience everyone that I know that played and enjoyed XC2 struggled with the combat at first and the people that were drop the game did so because of the convoluted tutorials that poorly explained everything and outright got some stuff wrong.

That's not to say that I've never tried to recommend it, but I always end up giving so many warnings that I actually end up scaring people off.

Maybe that's another reason, you might be making the game's issues worse than they initially are, which will scare people away. I say the best way would just be to let them experience it for themselves and form their own opinion and see how much they are bothered with the issues mentioned here.
The way I approached recommending people most games when they question me about one and this one in particular was basically "yeah you should try it x game has a good story, combat, ost but you mind find this particular thing an issue". For XC2 it was the tutorials that poorly explained the combat so told them if they need any help just ask I would even send them some guides about said combat, a lot of people here are probably familiar with Enel who made great tutorials for the game, I also did something similar for Monster Hunter Rise by linking them weapon tutorials from either akkrezgaming, gajinhunter or other channels.

But all in all to end this off, just know I'm not trying to shame you for being bothered by these aspects of the game, mainly the fanservice or tell you that they don't exist (which is just wrong). I'm just trying to share my perspective with you on why I'm not bothered by it in the slightest or why maybe the issues aren't as big of a deal as some people or you may make them out to be.
You're completely entitled to be bothered by said issues just as I am to not be bothered by them.

Honestly there should be no reason we should be having this discussion 5 years after the games release. It's getting pretty tiring.

@iLikeUrAttitude Lol, these giant responses are the exact reason why I kept my initial complaints very brief.

But yeah, it's less than I'm insecure about liking XC2 so much as there are aspects about the game I vilely hate. Never had a game before that had caused a mixed reaction from me. I can both gush about it's good points and rant about it's bad points endlessly.

Which is certainly better than being forgettable at least.

I do disagree that the fanservice is jarring. It is mostly underwhelming and awkward comedy that fits with the rest of the often underwhelming and awkward comedy that fits exactly the type of anime (see: not video game) it is trying to be with these cutscenes.

I mean I can see why it would be jarring if you don't watch anime but I do, so its fairly boring for the most part.

@link3710 Well I try to respond point by point to be more genuine and not to cherrypick your points like most people would. The text wall builds up as a result but at least my arguments are more concise and less confusion happens as a result.

Fair enough for the last part there plenty for me to complain about as well.
I think the most controversial game I own after XC2 at the top of my head would be... Monster Hunter Rise?

@kkslider5552000 The humor in 2 is probably what hurts the game more than anything, at least in my eyes. There's nothing wrong with having jokes in a video game, but the humor really bogs down the serious moments of 2, and it's jarring to still get these jokes when serious plot moments started to kick in.

I'm not sure I agree with that. They're standout bad moments, but they're usually focused on parts of the main story, which is important but not the majority of the game at all. Whereas the backtracking is a constant part of a lot of the gameplay in a lot of ways, and makes up far more of the experience (unless you actively avoid side content).

Edit: I just checked. All cutscenes of the main story, combined, are a little under 14 hours. I put in 160 hours by the end of the game, did not even do every sidequest nor buy any DLC yet.

The collector edition pages are up on the NA and UK Nintendo websites, but you can't purchase the game yet. For some reason they put the pages up, and then put Release as TBA. Why must they torment people?

@iLikeUrAttitude Yeah, but I'm kind of burned out on criticizing XC2 at this point now to continue the giant walls lol. I'm planning a NG+ run soon hopefully in any case, so I'll probably just wait to reassess it with fresh eyes.

@VoidofLight I disagree, while the "comedic" scenes and the fanservice tainted the games reputation online, I think what actually hurt the game are the tutorials being outright garbage.
I seen so many people being turned off by the combat because they couldn't understand and then you have a whole lot of people believe that the is slow (which I dont blame them because the tutorials are garbage), but as soon as the combat clicks with them their enjoyment of the game skyrockets.

@link3710 Yeah thats fair it's been 5 years let's just move on. I'll probably replay the game as well to familiarize myself again for 3.

@iLikeUrAttitude I mean, the combat tutorials are a detriment gameplay-wise, but speaking mainly story-wise, the fact the tone generally changes back and forth, instead of keeping consistent really is a huge issue with the game... at least to me.