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Topic: Will there be a Nintendo switch PRO?

Posts 41 to 60 of 77

skywake

Worth noting Bloomberg pushed another article re: Switch Pro. In it they claim to now know of 11 developers in posession of development kits capable of "4K output". And that they're not expecting a release of hardware is untill late next year

The naysayers are going to be annoyed, this "rumour" never dies. Just maybe because it's not as baseless as they claim. In before the surge of whine

Edit: Also making this call on my own back. We have already seen trailers running on this new Dev SKU. And separately, teardowns of the OLED dock may be very interesting indeed

Edited on by skywake

Some Aussie musics: Pond, TFS, Genesis Owusu
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

Matt_Barber

Late next year is also roughly when Nvidia will be shipping Orin, the next generation of Tegra, so that's another data point. Nintendo would need a custom variant rather than the off-the-shelf one, because unlike the X1 it's built for the needs of a very different market in the automotive industry, but that's no big deal as they've been partnered up through the entire development cycle.

That said, the Bloomberg article makes the good point that Nintendo have canceled products in the past despite there being dev kits in the field for them, so it's not a given. If they decide for some reason - maybe it's too power hungry, the performance isn't quite where they need it, there are issues running existing games, or the price is too high - they could just can it and go through another cycle.

It's not like the Switch is going to lapse into utter irrelevance if they don't get it out next year, after all.

Matt_Barber

Aeon7

@skywake "And with the Wii U if you remember they made every effort to make the Wii U look like it was part of the Wii family of systems"

The problem with the Wii U was the branding and marketing. Mainly the name "Wii U" doesn't come across as a successor and sounds more like an add on. It didn't really help that Nintendo didn't specify that it was a new console and focused more on the controller in the beginning which led to even more confusion among consumers. Personally, I understand why Nintendo chose to go with the Wii brand since it was still recognizable and had some value at the time. But I think a lot of people and myself would agree that calling the console something like "Wii 2" instead of "Wii U" would've been a better and simpler way at indicating that the console was a successor and would at least help the console a bit more. It's why I think a simple numbering system is the way to go forward

Aeon7

skywake

@Aeon7
Not really my point. I was more citing examples to show how vague the line between successor and revision can be. In raw specs the Wii was very much a GC revision. The packaging and marketing made it a clear successor sure but on paper? They're very close

The Wii U was similar in some ways internally to the Wii but was significantly more capable. Internally it's a different console generation by any definition. But the branding, marketing and accessory compatibility made it feel like a Wii revision in the market.

Whatever comes after the Switch I expect will have better forwards compatibility than any Nintendo console before it. But whether people will call it a successor or revision is something different. It's a corporate not a technical definition

Edited on by skywake

Some Aussie musics: Pond, TFS, Genesis Owusu
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

SwitchForce

Here's something else those whom say they don't have those chips from Nvidia in development kits already in varies forum. Probably so Nintendo can get the chips customized to their power and form factor. Alot of chip we get were in development long before we heard about them. It's in Nvidia bottom line to make chips and sell them. The newer chips the more money for them. That's what development kits are for testing before productions. You don't one day wakeup and wham new chipsets. People like to think that but are sadly mistaken.

Edited on by SwitchForce

SwitchForce

Matt_Barber

Nintendo responded to the Bloomberg article with a flat denial. For a company that doesn't typically address speculation at all, that's something of a statement.

Zynga also issued a denial that they'd ever received a dev kit which, again, is something rather more than the mere silence you'd expect if they were merely under an NDA.

As such, we should be taking the rumour that 4K dev kits even exist with a massive pinch of salt.

Nintendo are obviously working on something, but good luck when it comes to pinning down what and when.

Matt_Barber

Bolt_Strike

It feels too late for a Switch Pro at this point. They said in 2020/2021 that the Switch was at about the halfway point and that's usually when we see mid-gen refreshes like the DSi or New 3DS, but that's come and gone and at this point the Switch probably has only 2 or 3 years left. I think they intended for there to be a proper mid-gen refresh but the pandemic and chip shortage torpedoed those plans and the OLED model is the remnants of those plans with whatever's left being folded into the next gen Switch. I think the devkits do exist but the games are being shifted to the next gen console.

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

SwitchForce

They said no current Switch but that didn't mention anything about a Super Switch or Switch 2 system coming out. That's the problem they have now. How they responded just added more legs and credit they were working on a neXt Gen Switch but they can say they aren't because the current model is reaching it tech lifespan and a new Switch will have to replace it. v2 can only go so far and your going to have to get a new GPU/CPU and more memory to handle more Specs to push out more pixels. That just how tech moves example Smart Phone before they came it's flip or semi-smart phone and yet no one complain or we should still be using Flip phone or semi-smart phone. That the comparison alot of NintenDoomed fandom fail to grasp or know. It's following the same trend from something not packed to something overpacked to give people what they want aka Smart Phone for all it's ills. I say the sooner they release the better their market share and returns will be they could have two tier Switches.

1. Switch 4K/DLSS with OLED
2. Switch OLED
2. Switch Lite OLED

And all these can exists without problem if those wanting higher model then they can buy higher model and everyone can choose which fits their needs or budgets. People talks as though this can't happened example cars/truck one buys what they want and use. So why can't a Switch do that for alot less it's because people fear something so small can do what they never imaged and that is what scares people the most. AFRAID of change.

Edited on by SwitchForce

SwitchForce

skywake

There's supposedly a patent Nintendo filed earlier in the year regarding AI upscaling aka DLSS. So another thing that lines up I guess

Honestly, I still don't get why people are so against the idea of a "mid-gen" revision. It's just the sensible thing to do. Generations of hardware is a drag on the console market they're just had to put up with. It's not a positive thing for anyone. I see no reason for it to continue

Some Aussie musics: Pond, TFS, Genesis Owusu
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

SwitchForce

skywake wrote:

Honestly, I still don't get why people are so against the idea of a "mid-gen" revision. It's just the sensible thing to do. Generations of hardware is a drag on the console market they're just had to put up with. It's not a positive thing for anyone. I see no reason for it to continue

You have to wonder that is a good question. It's called Fear of change and that something so small that they consider a kids console that it could do something that they couldn't every image happening. But this is Nintendo and they do strange things and so far it seems to be working for them.

SwitchForce

skywake

@Wavey84
A few things.....

  • 1080p isn't really much of an upgrade at these screen sizes, 720p is fine
  • Haptic triggers, there's no reason for this to be part of a new console generation. That's a controller revision, the Switch can do this
  • similar to the PS4 Pro and some? .... maybe a tad optimistic. It can possibly approach that if it leans heavily on DLSS but I think more likely it'll sit around where the XBOne was. But with AI upscaling.
  • I see no reason any of the things you mention exclude a Switch Pro
  • Gameboy Color, DSi and New 3DS were all mid-gen refreshes with significant spec improvements. Some of them larger jumps than some console generation gaps are (i.e. GC -> Wii and Wii U -> Switch are smaller gaps than 3DS -> New 3DS). The fact that you think of them as not significant is just a testament to how much less disruptive the revision model is

Edited on by skywake

Some Aussie musics: Pond, TFS, Genesis Owusu
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

SwitchForce

1080 on a 6.5" or 7" is way to small and dlss or NIN AI learning is out there already what it needs is implantation or a GPU that can implement that in one package. Trigger fingers not really needed put those on the Pro Controllers instead. We seen online examples of DLSS and how it takes little to make it happen but the GPU is still the heart to get DLSS going. As to later arrival I suspect the Switch Pro or what the name will be is already Developed it's a matter how do they release without scaring OLED owners to wait or sell theirs to PreOrder the neXtGen Switch that would come with DLSS/AI learning. I don't expect a 2023 but 2022 when it will arrive during the Xmas of 2021 for PreOrders to arrive in 2022. For the most part the Hardware is already there it's the GPU Chipset/CPU that is to be finalized. They already have a successful design already and if they want backward compatibility why break that-when it works. I doubt the neXt Switch will be much different and still fit the Dock as all other Switches before it. Gamers are on the GO Pokémon sarcasm but that's where it's going and the ability to Dock just insure they can innovate games for different types of players. That's Nintendo innovation and will insure the staying power to come.

Edited on by SwitchForce

SwitchForce

Bolt_Strike

@skywake I mean, a mid-gen revision is literally in the middle of the generation. At this point a mid gen revision would probably have to happen in 2022/2023, which would give the Switch approximately an 8-10 year lifespan before the "next gen" Switch that replaces the original model is released. Could you see them doing that? I mean it's happened before, but it's rare (AFAIK the only console that's existed that long was the Xbox 360 from 2005-2013) that a console lives anywhere near that long and the original model isn't powerful enough to get away with sitting on the market for that long. 5+ years after the original is about when the original device would be replaced completely, not when a premium model would be introduced to run alongside it. The iPhone model would definitely be better, but I think the lack of any Switch Pro announcement at this juncture points to them continuing the traditional generational structure sadly. It's just hard to see how a schedule that includes a late mid-gen refresh could work.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

Grumblevolcano

@Bolt_Strike All the more powerful revisions launched 3-4 years after the launch of the original model except the GBC which launched 9 years after the GB. Switch is quite comparable to the GB in the sense that there's absolutely no competition (at least currently) so I wouldn't completely rule it out but it does seems like true successor is more likely at this point.

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

skywake

@Bolt_Strike
Honestly I think people are too obsessed with precedent and semantics. Nintendo are in a pretty unprecedented position in terms of the hardware their main console possesses and the roadmap forward. And the definition of what a "console generation" is isn't particularly well defined.

I could well argue that the Wii, internally, was a "mid gen" refresh of the Gamecube. And that it launched 5 years after it's predecessor before going on to last another 6. On a pure hardware side the only reason that doesn't fly is due to disc capacities and bluetooth controllers. There are also branding and coporate reasons why it does fly but for the hardware itself those are the two things. But with the Switch, where is the ball and chain? Cartridge capacity is only really limited by price and for controllers it has a modular setup. From what I can see there's not much reason to scrap the Switch unless Nintendo drops the hybrid model entirely

At this current point? The general theory amongst the people who think Switch Pro is real is that it had been planned for this year. Using Nvidia's Orin Tegra SoC which had been announced in 2018, three years ago now. Which pretty much lines up to the equivalent timings for the X1 was when the Switch launched. It also lines up with a bit of a two year cycle that was starting to form, X1 in 2017, X1 refresh in 2019, ??? in 2021. But COVID happened so all plans go to crap. So we get this holding pattern.

But even if you think that's nonsense Nintendo are still on Tegra with a console that is probably going to break 100mill units sold fairly soon. And Tegra has a very clear path of SoCs beyond the X1. Practically the only reason I see for Nintendo to start a new console generation in the traditional sense is if they drop the concept of the Switch entirely and go x86. But that's an incredibly reckless move with little potential reward

Edited on by skywake

Some Aussie musics: Pond, TFS, Genesis Owusu
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

Bolt_Strike

@skywake The issue is that if it's a mid-gen refresh, that means the OG Switch is still going to be on the market. For them to continue to keep the OG Switch on the market games are going to need to run on the OG Switch, otherwise there's not going to be any demand to keep playing theirs for those that don't want to upgrade. But with the Switch reaching its limits and developers wanting to move on, what games are they going to be selling that could run on an OG Switch for the next 5 years? It's not so much that anything is drastically changing in the hardware as much as the base hardware is just too far behind for them to continue to support it alongside the upgraded model. Maybe if things had gone as we presume they planned to, they could've more gracefully transitioned from one model to the next, but with COVID forcing Nintendo to stick with the base model, that transition becomes much more abrupt as the expected launch of the upgraded model will coincide with the industry's abandonment of the base model. At this point the best you can probably hope for in a transition would be something like what Microsoft and Sony have been doing, a year or two of cross gen titles with a full abandonment of the base Switch shortly after (which isn't really terribly different from how Nintendo handled the transition from 3DS -> Switch, so really it'd be pretty much business as usual anyway).

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

skywake

@Bolt_Strike
Good points and I think we're basically on the same page to be honest. My disagreement to the notion of a successor is that there will still be a lot of games that don't really need better hardware. Either because they're generally not as demanding or because they could get away with a lower resolution/framerate target.

As example in the medium term consider Metroid Prime 4. It's probably going to be to the Switch what Breath of the Wild was to the Wii U or Skyward Sword was to the Wii. Very late in the cycle and pushing the hardware. How a title like title sits will I think describes where the next console sits on that spectrum between successor and revision

Scenario 1: Identical across both platforms
This is basically the most extreme end, basically like the 2019 Switch revision. At most you might lose accessory compatibility but in terms of games playable there's no change. So maybe longer battery life and a better screen or maybe you lose backwards compatibility or online modes.

Scenario 2: All the same games but can take advantage of better hardware
So this is the PS4 Pro and XBox One X kind of model. I'd also include things like the N64 expansion pak. You're getting the same games as you did before so you don't open yourself up to new content. But games you have can, in theory, run better.

Scenario 3: Some games run better, some exclusives, mostly the same platform
This is where I think we both seem to agree the Switch is headed I think. Or at least I think we do. Basically what the Gameboy Color and New 3DS were. For example on a New 3DS if you played later titles like Smash Bros, Pokemon Sun or Hyrule Warriors you got better framerates, better load times. But also on the New 3DS there were a couple of titles you couldn't run on the regular 3DS. The GBC was similar but with a significantly longer list of GBC exclusives.

Scenario 4: Same architecture, arbitrary cut-over
This is what the GC -> Wii transition was and it's pretty uncommon. This also seems to be what some people are advocating for, in my mind at least. Something to force people to upgrade so everyone is on the same spec tier. There was a reason to do it with the GC, that reason doesn't exist for Switch. The Wii -> Wii U transition was similar to this but with a 10x order of magnitude improvement in spec... also a screen... and 1080p....

Scenario 5: Traditional hardware successor
Most new console generations have been like this but mostly because there wasn't really a standard architecture, especially outside of the portable space. PPC was the first architecture that was potentially going to do that but it died off while ARM got more powerful and x86 got cheaper. The transition from PS4/XBone/Switch is the first transition where everyone is on a stable architecture (Wii -> Wii U was close but they left it a bit too long)

Scenario 1 & 2 Metroid Prime launches on Switch, maybe it runs better on the new hardware. Scenario 3 is possibly Pro exclusive but more likely it just runs better on the Pro. Scenario 4 & 5 it either gets two releases or dies as the last major game on the Switch at a point where people looking at moving on. I think we'll get Scenario 3.

Edited on by skywake

Some Aussie musics: Pond, TFS, Genesis Owusu
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

GrailUK

After 7 years on the market (projecting here), I refuse to believe that their next console is going to just be a more powerful Switch. It has to add something like all their upgrades do. Could be something as small as analogue triggers or more involved like a closer affinity with mobile phones in someway (heck, HOLGRAMS!!) Maybe DLSS would be the gimmick, but it's not something Nintendo would traditionally harp on about explicitly as they tend to avoid that race these days. A quid will get ya 10 that they are researching new ways to play still.

Edited on by GrailUK

I never drive faster than I can see. Besides, it's all in the reflexes.

Switch FC: SW-0287-5760-4611

Snatcher

I'm a nintendo insider, and I was told that the switch pro will be a thing between today and 10 years from now, watch. I will be right ūüėŹ.

Nintendo are like woman, You love them for whats on the inside, not the outside.

(My friend code is SW-7322-1645-6323, please ask me before you use it)

GrailUK

@Snatcher MVP right here!

I never drive faster than I can see. Besides, it's all in the reflexes.

Switch FC: SW-0287-5760-4611

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