Topic: Disappointed by the lack of new exclusives

While it's true that the system has seen it's fair share of Wii U ports, who honestly gives a rat's behind that Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, Luigi's Mansion, Metroid, Astral Chain, etc. are "second party"/licensed out? In the practical sense (from the end point of the person playing the game) it's irrelevant that the teams making the games don't have the word "Nintendo" printed on the front of their office door, and seems a poor excuse from the, increasingly shrinking, crowd that still feels burned about how the Wii U played out & wants to discredit the Switch at every turn.

The problem is the thread title. It's bad. Users come here thinking it's a thread about one thing and don't necessarily read the OP with enough attention to detail to realise it's actually Nintendo's quantitative output disappointing the OP, not the Switch itself. Fix the thread title and people will probably stop arguing the main point - Nintendo's output, quantity wise at least, has been a bit disappointing since 2015, but the Switch has enabled so many alternative sources of games to come to play that for most people any disappointment with Nintendo is almost irrelevant. I can't really afford for Nintendo to turn out more games.

I think the OP doesn't understand well the difference in scope of developing a game for a handheld and developing a game for a home console. They're two entirely different things and considering with almost every IP so far Nintendo have at least been trying to ball it out of the park, yeah, games take time.

Not only do games take time but games with as much content as is actually in these games like Smash, Fire Emblem, Splatoon, Breath of the Wild, yeah, believe it or not developing these Switch games takes a lot longer than developing a 3DS 2D RPG. It's pretty straight forward. I also want to remind you the absolute barebones games we got on the Wii U such as Mario Tennis, which looked almost like a demo for Aces in comparison. It was depressing.

I also want to mention that you're nuts if you think the output hasnt drastically changed despite the virus and all that. Do you not remember the droughts during the Wii U? There have been like 6 month gaps between releases at some points with the most exciting game being the likes of Pushmo - a download only puzzle title. Did we all forget that the Wii U also had no Metroid, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing games and so on? We have all these revivals of classic franchises on Switch. What more do we want? The Wii U had so little content output that I remember getting legitimately hyped for Earthbound, having played it many times before.

I understand feeling disappointed but it sounds more like the system just isn't for you and you should opt to buy another for your gaming needs.

This is the point I most agree with. While there's at least reason to be annoyed at how maybe Nintendo's main studios haven't put out enough games in the context of Nintendo in general not putting out enough games, there is no reasonable argument to why anyone should care that a giant percentage of Nintendo games are made by developers not fully owned by Nintendo. Especially when a lot of those games are really good.

You are right, I've changed the thread title.

Most of these alternative sources are indie games that are available on all platforms including PC (most dont even require a gaming pc) so they are IMO not a great reason to buy the switch, unless one absolutely needs portability.

Yes and I must also add that Nintendo reuses a lot of the graphic. I mean, graphically there is not a big difference between Splatoon 1 and 2 or Mario Maker 1 and 2. Animal Crossing NH also has similar models and animations to New Leaf. Pokemon Sword/Shield should be well known, and BOTW2 also looks similar to BOTW1. So I don't buy the argument that Nintendo needs to put so much effort into graphics and animations, that it reduces their output.

All of the people defending Nintendo in here over the “scale of modern gaming” like… yikes. The Switch hardware felt outdated pretty much when it was released, let alone all these years later. If a company of the size and resources of Nintendo are struggling to develop for the limited hardware of the Switch, they are only going to be increasingly left behind then, as other companies are powering off ahead.

Right now, it doesn’t seem to really hurt them, as people just take any first party Nintendo IP they can get, it seems and arguably they aren’t in competition with other companies in the same way say Microsoft and Sony are, as Nintendo aims to fill a different niche.

However, there will surely have to come a time at some point where a Switch successor will need to exist and it will surely have to be more powerful than the Switch is. So if they are struggling to make the first party exclusives now, they really need to take a step back and look at their whole production line to work out where things are going wrong.

@chipia Thanks for acknowledging my point and taking it onboard.

You use the phrase 'absolutely needs portability'. From my observation, I've seen a lot of comments in different places around the web about how the Switch has changed their gaming habits. For a lot of people, it's not about needing portability, it's just an appreciation for the benefits of portability. A lot of people are getting more gaming time because they do not have to sit in a fixed position in their home to enjoy an (almost) full range of gaming experiences. Switch, being a hybrid, offers portability and big screen gaming. That dual functionality is worth tolerating less powerful hardware for a lot of people. It's not need, it's just preferred.

@chipia
Exclusive or not, if i found interesting games from either Switch or PS4, i will pick them.
Also, i think Switch have some exclusive 3rd party games you can consider.

If Nintendo put twice the current investment into developing new games for Switch, do you think they'd sell twice as many Switches? Or twice as much software?

So far, with the 'disappointing' software output for Switch, it has achieved a market penetration on course to become one of the highest selling gaming platforms in history. There would be diminishing returns from doubling or tripling the software investment.

Nintendo would probably be better off reserving that investment for further down the line. Which I suspect is what it's doing. It's not struggling to produce more games, it's strategically managing the pace of output in attempt to maximise return on investment.

I am very much one of those people. I didn’t think I’d get any use out of the hybrid model and the lower specs of the Switch was off putting to me. I still do think it’s a shame that a lot of Switch games don’t run great, especially when docked. But novelty or not, the seamless transfer between docked and handheld is just such a nice thing to have.

You can have the most comfortable set up in the world, but you’re still bound to one place. Being able to game with practically zero interruptions on the Switch is just a thing you get used to, which is then hard to be without when you go back to other consoles/PC.

I wasn’t exactly someone who struggled to fit gaming into my schedule in the first place, but it is still nice to get extra gaming sessions in like first thing in the morning or last thing at night when curled up in bed. Or when you get a tea/loo break. Or even when doing chores. The gaming doesn’t really need to stop (unless you are driving). I just love that and can mostly just roll with all of the other problems that come from that approach, as the convenience is so good.

As I said in my original post, right now, it isn’t hurting them. And granted, no one can say for sure if it will or it won’t, eventually. However, logic would follow that it is more likely to hurt them than anything else, if the Switch 2 is even more powerful, and it is now a decade plus between each exclusive game.

Disruption from the pandemic, HD development as well as the move to open world are likely the 3 most prominent factors.

The 2nd point has been most noticeable with the Wii U as that console was infamous for game droughts and Nintendo has learned from that by releasing lots of ports/remasters/remakes to help fill in gaps for the Switch's library. Meanwhile the 3rd point has been most noticeable with PS4/XB1, games have gotten more open world over time and naturally the gap between entries is larger because of the open world and increasingly games are becoming Games as a Service. BotW being such a gigantic success means Nintendo's likely going to make more of their franchises open world and as you can see the gap between BotW and BotW 2 is about 6 years.

Nintendo hasn't really delved into the GaaS space much yet but given Furukawa's comments on Animal Crossing, I feel it's only a matter of time before Nintendo joins in.

In fact all those 'best of' examples are arguable if you ask me, it's not just Fire Emblem that's arguable.

Mario Odyssey. There're some great levels in this entry, but some of them aren't really that great. If you look at the whole package you'll see that it's pretty incosistent in its level design; it looks like different levels were made by people from different divisions, like they all had their own approach on how it should be done and then they gathered together and made this compilation of some sorts - as a result there are some highlights, but there're also lots of lowlights. I still enjoyed it for what it strived to achieve, but best 3D mario ever? Not really.

Zelda BotW? First and foremost it was a Wii U development. So all the credit should go to that platform not the Switch, sorry for stealing that from you, lol.

Metroid Dread is a big advancement for the series in visual department, it's pretty much an AAA 2D metroid in terms of production values. But aside from that? It's a good 2D metroid game, but it's nothing groundbreaking for the genre as a whole, it didn't introduce anything substantially different or new. It's good. It's metroid. It's okay.

Animal Crossing: New Horizons. This is the most arguable of all. It's very divisive entry and it splitted the fanbase. I myself as a fan of AC was severely dissappointed by everything they've done in this entry including the latest update that became the only major one that they've managed to release.

Smash Ultimate will be remembered for it's roster and only for it's roster. Nothing else is worth noting. On the other hand it really lacks single player content and lots of game modes that previous entries enjoyed.

Mario Party. I'm not really a fan of mario parties so I'm not the one to judge here. It's pretty good just by the looks of it and people seem to be fairly content with those 2 entries that they got, so that's nice I guess.

Just like you said I could go on for ages about all of this, but I think you got the main point.

@NEStalgia If Nintendo had outsourced Star Fox, Wave Race or F-Zero and the results were awesome nobody would complain. Sega made an awesome F-Zero GX and Rare (second-party) made the best DK games. As you said, outsourcing is risky and sometimes they have to reduce the content (Metroid Dread), restart the whole project (Metroid Prime 4), etc. Nintendo are probably thinking about future software/hardware and they might have abused their studios in the meantime. Monolith helped with Breath of the Wild because it seems that Nintendo struggled even with the basic concept of the open world and yet Monolith managed to make a gorgeous and more complex Xenoblade Chronicles X. Have these studios helped Nintendo to fix Animal Crossing or design the few and uninspired bosses of Super Mario Odyssey? Who knows.

@gcunit I'm glad that you understood and even agree with me. It's so frustrating when people don't read or don't understand and still reply things like "many people didn't get a Wii U", "who cares if it's first/second/third party?", " there are thousands of game available on Switch" or even dare to call you "ignorant" and "you don't have any idea what you're talking about" (before they edit). Thank you for actually listening which is rare these days. @NEStalgia helped me made the list of Nintendo exclusives for Switch and it's lame and, as @chipia explained, the graphics and features can't be used as an excuse because, come on, Splatoon 2, Super Mario Maker 2... Arms, a game I know you like but not technically very impressive either. Even Breath of the Wild, a Wii U game (Wii U should get the credit, not Switch) that was delayed one year while making the Switch port, doesn't have proper voice acting. It was weird hearing voices just a few times in the whole game and then reading everything else. The graphics are not extremely detailed either and there isn't a lot of variety in the assets nor the enemies but they used the lightning wisely and I think that's why Breath of the Wild looks good. I'm not saying that I don't like Link being silent and that I don't like that kind of graphics but that this can't be compared to what other studios are working on. The few efforts for Switch come from studios that they have acquired like Monolith or Next Level or even studios that they hired.

@anynamereally I totally agree about Super Mario Odyssey. Everybody on this site that knows me a little knows that I love 3D platformers (platformers in general) but Odyssey did very little for me. The level design is not cohesive and the platforming is bland, even in the extra/secret levels. It's a sandbox but quite boring. Breath of the Wild is a bigger sandbox, that's why it takes ages to play, but it's more interesting because of the physics (paraglider, fire, wind...) and the environment. After reading the whole comment, I also agree with everything else that you wrote. Very few games but yet best entries so far? No way!

I won't argue much about Mario Odyssey, since it is a pretty objective matter, but for Smash Bros Ultimate you are just plain wrong. SSBU has one of the biggest and more rich single player campaigns out of any fighting game ever released, partially due to the World of Light. World of light introduces so many characters and elements from so many different games, it is unreal.

SSBU is also the peak of the series when it comes to content and scope, it brings together so many different characters from so many different games and embodies the soul of the franchise better than any other entry.

Hardcore fans may prefer SSBM, but SSBU caters to both casuals and pros, as it has both very tight controls and is pretty balanced in the competitive side, while also being super fun even for just a couple of rounds with your buddies. With so many different characters, there is the right fighter for every kind of player out there, no matter the taste.

So do you guys think we'll ever get a new 2D Zelda and 2D Mario game on Switch?

Well, as BotW2 seems to be in-line for a 2022 release, I doubt we'll see any other Zelda between now and then, and as it's been so long since the last 2D Zelda was made, I really wouldn't be betting on one. As for Mario 2D... tough to say, but it wouldn't surprise me if they hit us with a 2D collection someday.

At this point in time though, I do have reservations about whether Nintendo has many new titles lined up for the current Switch. We're supposedly still getting Splatoon 3, Kirby 3D, BotW2, Metroid Prime 4 (?), Bayonetta 3... they could be the only 'big' titles from Nintendo until sometime in 2023, by which point I am expecting some form of successor to become apparent, one that will be needing lots of lovely new games from Nintendo to give it any chance of maintaining the momentum that Switch has seen. But there certainly seems room for one more Mario game before then... will Galaxy 2 make an appearance?

@dionysos283 I think the next 2D Zelda will be Oracle remakes and the next 2D Mario being a NSMB collection so probably not regarding new entries.

A vocal minority of malcontents bitterly grousing about getting a brand new game instead of New Leaf HD does not equal "divisive and controversial". On the contrary, taking all things into consideration, I think it can be safely said that New Horizons is easily the most popular and successful Animal Crossing game to date.

@Mountain_Man The controversy is that the game was little more than New Leaf HD with half the content removed, and replaced with Baby's First Minecraft. Like I said, if the content of the new patch had launched with the game, it still would have been somewhat disappointing, but I think it would have felt much more complete a game. Someone buying the game this Holiday is going to get a much more complete feeling AC than what felt like an incomplete Early Access beta in 2020.

I don't think it's a fair critique on a fan site to cite the "popularity" and "success" commercially as a product. Due to various reasons (pandemic, Switch popularity in general, social media hype etc.) it reached a large new audience. That generates popularity and success, and those experiencing the world and charm of the AC universe for the first time are going to have a much more glowing take on it than someone comparing to prior outings. But that doesn't provide a critical view as we get among existing players. Yes, I know some existing players like yourself think it's great and some think it's extremely disappointing. Which is why I said it's divisive rather than bad.

The game is a series reboot. It's not a sequel, it's a reboot. They didn't market it as such, though a dev comment about it hints that it was intentional. As such, it changed fundamentals, and that naturally become controversial. But if it wasn't so incomplete for so long, maybe that would have been less stark a change. And don't say it wasn't incomplete, they just patched in a significant chunk of the content we've been saying was missing for a year and a half. Nintendo seems to know the content was missing. It's the staunch defenders that seem to not want to believe it.

@NEStalgia Very well explained with rock-solid arguments. Divisive is the perfect word to define Animal Crossing New Horizons, even Breath of the Wild is divisive because many long-time fans didn't like the changes and omissions and there is a lot of articles about it. Switch was commercially successful from the start and Animal Crossing New Horizons was the game of the pandemic. I remember many ridiculously successful games before it like New Super Mario Bros. Wii. That doesn't mean that that game was better than the other Mario 2D games (it isn't). Switch is a Wii U Pro whose market appeal is more similar to Wii's. Combining these two factors, Nintendo has managed to keep selling Switch with very few new exclusive games. It wouldn't have worked otherwise and it always surprises me how forgiving we loyal fans that bought the Wii U are, generally.